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BAP Ep. 3 - The Advisor Leap Part 1: The Difference Between Solving Problems and Holding Complexity with Heather Esposito
3 Playsin 15 hours
Clients may ask for answers—but in today’s uncertain, fast-changing environment, they’re often looking for something more: a calm, credible guide. As part of a five-part series, host Chris Mitchell interviews Heather Esposito - CPA, ICF-credentialed coach, and founder of Movora Strategies - on how accountants can shift from “problem-solver” to trusted advisor. Heather shares how to navigate complexity without a playbook, use questions that change how clients think, and build the self-awareness that makes those skills usable in real conversations. This is a must-listen for firm leaders and rising professionals.
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Transcript
Introduction to Heather Esposito & Mavora Strategies
00:00:05
Speaker
Hi, my name is Chris Mitchell. Welcome to another episode of Becker Accounting Podcast. I am here today and I've had conversations with Heather before, but I'm here with Heather Esposito. She's a founder of Mavora Strategies, and she's a very smart lady when it comes to humans and how we engage within the work
The Role of a Trusted Advisor
00:00:28
Speaker
environment. And we're going to be talking specifically about how we present ourselves and how we figure out what being a trusted advisor is. And during complex situations when the client really is pulling their hair out and we show up as consultants, sometimes that's not fully what they need. So before I give it all away, I'm to turn it over to you, Heather, just to share some things about your background, just in case the audience is unfamiliar
Heather's Journey: From CPA to Corporate Learning
00:00:55
Speaker
with you. So please share.
00:00:57
Speaker
Hi, thanks for having me and you're you're too kind. My background is I am a CPA, although I recently in the last couple of years got my license, but started out in business administration and accounting, found my way into education, which led me down a circuitous path to corporate learning and development, leadership development,
00:01:21
Speaker
coaching I think those are some of the things that I am best known for or places where I've had the most impact. And I see this advisor role that we are moving towards as a profession very, very similarly to the work that I've done in coaching all of these years. And I think there's a lot of learning that can come from that. I am an ICF credentialed coach with over 2,500 hours of coaching experience.
00:01:48
Speaker
And I'm something that's referred to as a neuroplastician. And what that means is that I am not a neuroscientist, nor do I play one on TV, but I do take their research. And I think that we can learn a lot from what they are learning about our brain and how it functions into communication and into the workplace. And so I try to bring their research with a practitioner's lens on how does that impact how we show up as communicators, leaders, and things like that. So that's a little bit about my background.
00:02:21
Speaker
You know, when I think about anything neuroscientific, you know, I think about really smart people. So just being able to decipher that is impressive. So I'm just letting you know that off
Advisory Skills vs. Technical Proficiency
00:02:33
Speaker
the bat. Thank you. You know, my first question, because I need to understand, what is a trusted advisor?
00:02:38
Speaker
I mean, we speak to that like we're giving it life. It's a, you know, it's a different framework. its a different attitude and the energy that we're bringing to the table. But what does that mean? and Well, to me, I'll just I'll define it for myself. ah What I think about a trusted advisor, I don't necessarily think about someone who has all the answers. So even though advice, you might think that that's in the root of it. I think that's.
00:03:05
Speaker
very little of what the client really wants from us. They want us to be able to sit with them in situations that they're trying to navigate.
00:03:16
Speaker
And I would argue that today, most of those situations don't have clear cut answers. They're ambiguous, they're uncertain, and they need somebody who can sit with them in that and help them navigate and feel like that you have my best interest at heart. And sometimes we might have some really hard conversations and but I trust you that you're here with me and you're working towards my best interest.
00:03:48
Speaker
You know, I've worked in public accounting for 25 years, 25 plus years as a consultant. and Okay. I've been a partner and, you know, I know how important it is to have that kind of a relationship and be able to respond to a client in a certain way.
00:04:04
Speaker
But help me understand or help, you know, share with the audience because we think technically competent, that's enough. You know, and we often don't think about trusted advisor.
00:04:15
Speaker
I mean, so if I'm technically proficient and I'm good at what I do, I know gap. I know all the rules and regs that come into play. Why do I need to be a trusted advisor if I'm already proficient as an accountant?
00:04:29
Speaker
Well, that's what the system has rewarded for a number of years because we did hold the information and really only a few people had the depth of knowledge that we had.
00:04:42
Speaker
We are in a world today where that is no longer true. ah We have access to more information if you look at the information. the advancements that are occurring with artificial intelligence, it has access to more information and can process faster than any one human can. So that's no longer our differentiator. I think it's a ticket to entry.
00:05:06
Speaker
We've got to be credible in our space. But what our clients are looking for today is not just the person with all the answers. They're looking for someone who can help them navigate and to help them understand the implications of different choices to be able to say, I'm really scared and I don't know what to do. And I need somebody to help me think through this and maybe make some recommendations. But it's less about solving the problem.
00:05:39
Speaker
And coming at it from a fix it mentality as it is more of a navigation and a guide is are the words that come to me that. Or what clients are really looking for if we boil it down.
00:05:54
Speaker
So I know you've been a coach and you've worked with leadership in the past and within public accounting. Who within a firm is raising their hand saying, OK, we know competency is necessary, but being a trusted advisor is very important in how we move forward. I mean, based on the firms that you've you've worked with, who's raised their hand and said, hey, this is important for us to be successful. I'm i'm curious.
00:06:18
Speaker
Yeah, so I think it comes from a couple of places. First, managing partners, you're you know some firms are organized where they have a C-suite, and but those executive leaders, whatever their titles are,
00:06:34
Speaker
are beginning to recognize that what got us here will not get us there and that our technical expertise is not going to be our our differentiator because knowledge is available everywhere.
00:06:50
Speaker
And you'll look at a number of places and just see that the advisor skill set, the advisor competency is what is raising up and what we believe, at least in the next five to 10 years, will be the stronger skill set of the profession.
00:07:09
Speaker
I'm also seeing it ah from HR departments. So whether that be the talent team, the learning and development team, saying that technical competency is just our ticket to entry. it's I'm not discounting the importance of it.
00:07:26
Speaker
But it's not the thing that's going to set us apart. And it's actually, i would argue, this might be a disruptive thought, but I would argue it's not the thing that really sits behind a trusted advisor and what clients are looking for as the number one thing in a trusted advisor.
00:07:46
Speaker
You know, I start thinking about that relationship and I think about all that's on the table when I'm trying to solve a problem. And you say it's a complex situation and I need to be proficient in a complex situation.
Approaches to Complex Situations
00:07:58
Speaker
First of all, how do you label a complex situation and how do I behave in an equation like that different than being a you know, technically proficient?
00:08:08
Speaker
So when I think about complex situations, I think about the things that have no clear cut answer. if If there are things that we've encountered in the past or that numbers of people have encountered in the past, we can go look at best practice and say, we have enough history of navigating X situation and looking. We've got the benefit of looking out in the future and saying, we see how this played out. When these things happen, it works well. When these things happen, it doesn't.
00:08:39
Speaker
as those are Those are fairly easy. They may not be easy to navigate, but the answers can come fairly easy. The things that we're facing geopolitically, economically, they're they don't have clear-cut answers, and we don't have clear-cut certainty about what they're going to be. I mean, think about what we've experienced. Think about what we experienced during the pandemic.
00:09:07
Speaker
We've never done that before. There was no playbook we could pull out to say, how do you navigate a pandemic from a cultural perspective, a political perspective, an economic perspective?
00:09:19
Speaker
Some of our economic systems blew up on us and we didn't foresee that coming. That's complexity. Think about the tariff situation today. You know what the tariffs are today. They could be completely different tomorrow. They could change 48 hours after that.
00:09:37
Speaker
And businesses are trying to navigate, how do I make good decisions for the for the good of my customer base, for the good of the future of the business, the sustainability of the business?
00:09:50
Speaker
With a lack of predictability. And I think we've in the past assumed that our world is more predictable than it truly is.
00:10:02
Speaker
And some of the things that we're facing right now have shown us just really how unpredictable. it can be and those those don't have clear-cut answers so that's how i define complexity now what you'd be doing differently is you know your value if your value doesn't come from being the smartest person in the room with all the best practices The skill sets and the competency starts to change.
00:10:30
Speaker
It's what are the types of questions I'm asking? And I don't mean diagnostic questions. So they're not the questions that are trying to extract enough information from you so that I can have more information to solve it for you.
00:10:47
Speaker
It's more of these, the word in the scientific literature is metacognitive. So I'm helping you think about your thinking. I'm asking you questions that actually help you step back from the situation.
00:11:02
Speaker
And the way I describe it is I want you to look at it from different angles. So I'm going to ask questions that put you in different seats around the situation And then we're going to bring all of that thinking together and say, OK, given all the things we've talked about, what's starting to stand out? Because I can't, as an advisor or even a consultant, I can't know everything about your business. Even if you shared a lot, I'm not in the day-to-day. I don't have the history. I don't have the political complexities of of your business.
00:11:37
Speaker
So I'm going to rely on you to help me co-create and be part of this thinking process because you have access to all of that. I have access to only the pieces you've shared with me.
00:11:50
Speaker
So if I'm creating more psychological safety where you feel safe to share more, reveal more, I have more to help you work with. But you can you have all of that inside of you. And so I'm trying to bring out more of that so that you have more to work with. And then I can share experience. I can share recommendations.
00:12:14
Speaker
I can share what I see. i can hold up a mirror for you And that helps us come to a better solution together, or at least a thing that we're going to try.
00:12:28
Speaker
You know, when I think about the audience and I think about the person that's graduating from school and I'm thinking about a seasoned manager that's already plugged into public accounting, been there for years.
00:12:41
Speaker
And i I listen to this and I'm like, OK, this sounds good, but I'm trained for certainty. So what am I what does my path look like? How do I get to a point where I'm transformed? have evolved that I fit based on what that client need is that I can hear them in a different way. What does that look like for the beginner? And what does that look like for a seasoned professional with many years of being certain? Right.
00:13:08
Speaker
and playing in the certainty realm and space and being very successful. And now all of a sudden they've got to switch gears or switch to it and use a different playbook. How would you address that?
00:13:19
Speaker
It's for the person who's in school today. And I would argue that they they are rewarded for a lot of certainty, too, because we see them come into the profession. And typically, you know, we're hiring smart people. They're a students, B students.
00:13:36
Speaker
They know how to pass the test. They know how to solve the problem in the book that I like you tell how old I am. The problem in the book, it was probably the the problem in the electronic book that they've been accessing on their iPad, but where it has the clean answer.
00:13:53
Speaker
And that that's that prediction, that certainty that we've been rewarded for having the right answer has been there for years and years and years. So this is nothing new doubling down on those human skills.
00:14:09
Speaker
How do I build curiosity? How do I sit with a problem just a little bit longer than what I'm comfortable with? Because there's all kinds, just from the way our brain is wired,
00:14:22
Speaker
Our brain likes to close loops. We get hits of dopamine and serotonin when we check something off the to-do list or when we have an answer and the problem's fixed. So there's physiology that goes behind this in addition to just our What we get rewarded for externally, there's internal rewards too.
00:14:45
Speaker
So doubling down on those human skills, learning how to ask better questions, learning how to be curious, learning agility, which is learning how to learn.
00:14:57
Speaker
and So that when I encounter something I don't know, I don't get freaked out that I don't have the answer to this. I just activate the system that says, okay, so when I don't know something and that feels uncomfortable, I'm How do I go about figuring out where I can get information, where I can learn more? And that's a skill in and of itself.
00:15:21
Speaker
Those are the important things, I think, for someone who's in school today looking at the career future that they're going to navigate is some of those things you might have developed later in your career.
00:15:33
Speaker
i think you're going to have to start developing them while you're in school, if not even earlier. And and we're doing a better job in the high schools of teaching critical thinking. ah teaching better communication skills.
00:15:47
Speaker
We've still got a long way to go. If you're a seasoned professional where this is well entrenched, I mean, we've got a lot of hard wiring built in and And here's the thing. It's not just about the hard wiring. It's not just about the technical knowledge that we know. It's also the beliefs and assumptions around our identity and what we believe makes us valuable.
00:16:12
Speaker
And that's a lot harder to dismantle. And that's some of the work that I do through my organization is helping us dismantle. Maybe dismantle is not the right word. ah Helping us discover what drives our identity, where that serves us.
00:16:31
Speaker
where it maybe isn't serving us any longer? and how do I start to replace that with new beliefs so that my belief isn't about being the smartest person in the room or having the answers or being the first one to be able to solve the problem?
00:16:50
Speaker
And we've got a lot of reward circuitry around that, but to start defining that differently. And I need to be in an organization that rewards that behavior. So I think there's an individual piece, and then there's a systemic piece that we really need to talk about. If this is where the profession is heading, then how are we changing the systems in which we operate that start to say that's the right behavior to do, not the one we've been trained to do? And that's tough work. That's hard.
00:17:25
Speaker
You know, I think about coaching opportunities and I think like I'm going to play. Let's role play. OK, let's do it. you You're coaching. You're coaching, Chris. OK. OK. Chris is a seasoned professional.
00:17:37
Speaker
OK. You've been working with me for a few weeks. Hopefully I've caught on and I've learned something of in that process. How long do you assess and evaluate me? What tell what's the tail that I've made to shift and I'm moving and I'm thinking and I'm i and I'm performing in a different way.
Coaching for Mindset Shifts
00:17:54
Speaker
How do you how would you understand that? And how does that change the plan? If I'm not moving the way I should be moving, what what else do you introduce? and So so I've. i've I struggle with the evaluate, diagnose piece because i'm I'm one person with one perspective. And if I'm your coach, I'm seeing you at brief moments in time.
00:18:18
Speaker
So even if you start to show up differently with me because I've created a space where you're willing to be a little bit more vulnerable, I see you stepping down. I don't know what happens when you leave this room and you go out and you interact with other people. you may not be transferring that yet. So I get hesitant as a coach about saying that what I'm observing is a holistic change. I'm goingnna out i'm going to rely on you to talk about your experience, how people are responding to you, ah how you're making sense of things. So those are the types of questions that I'll ask that will point me to where
00:18:58
Speaker
um where you're making meaning. i That's a a coaching term. I don't know if that'll resonate for everyone, but how you make sense of your world, I will be able to get some insight into.
00:19:12
Speaker
and there are ways that we can do things through like a 360 that will give you data about how you're experiencing yourself And then how different how different groups of people are experiencing you.
00:19:27
Speaker
How are your direct reports experiencing you different than your peers, different than your boss or your boss's boss? And when you start to look at that, we can start to see patterns that may give you some insights that, hey, I think I'm doing this, but the impact I'm having for others is not matching up to that. It's not aligning yet.
00:19:50
Speaker
And so then we'll start to explore. I'll ask you questions that'll ask you to think about your thinking and ask you to think about how did what was your intent?
00:20:01
Speaker
What did you notice from others? What was the intent? the What were you trying to accomplish? And then we'll talk about different things you can try.
00:20:12
Speaker
And then you're going to come back and you're going say, hey, I tried this. Here's how this worked. I got a different type of response. People opened up to me more or i tried it and I didn't see the shift that I wanted. And then we're going to go and we help you think through to something else that you can try.
00:20:28
Speaker
Because what we're talking about with identity shift and starting to think about myself and the value I offer differently, those are not not overnight changes. Those are things that take time to dismantle, unlearn, and then put something new that's better serving you in its place.
00:20:51
Speaker
So I'm going to be a naysayer here. So please, it's not what I believe. But if I'm a client, because I know clients and I know they want answers. And I'm saying that, OK, you want a trusted advisor now, but do you still want answers?
00:21:06
Speaker
So how do I know they concretely want a trusted advisor? You know, I know I can have a conversation with you and I know there's a tremendous amount of value in it, but do they not still just want answers?
00:21:17
Speaker
And why isn't that enough? I think if you ask them, They will say yes, but what they're really wanting is solutions, real solutions, workable solutions to their problem and someone to sit with them in that so that they're not alone in trying to figure this out.
00:21:40
Speaker
And so when you think about answers, if I just say, Chris, here's what you should do, or Chris, here's the five-step plan and if If you're already listening to me saying, I can tell you all the reasons why that won't work, or I've already tried that and it didn't work, you you're already shutting down and rejecting what I'm trying to share. And when we lose our autonomy in the situation, it's not that you really wanted somebody to come in and do it for you or just give you all the answers.
00:22:14
Speaker
You wanted guidance and you wanted help. And so- That looks a lot different. And when they work with someone that I would describe as a trusted advisor, and I think about a lot of those skills, the same as the coaching skills.
00:22:34
Speaker
i I always correct people, but they're like, oh my gosh, you helped me do this. You, like when I met with you, like you said this and I didn't say it.
00:22:45
Speaker
They actually were the ones that said it. But because I helped pull that out of them, it felt like It felt like I was a consultant. It felt like I was giving them the answers, but I can guarantee you that is not what I was doing there. I just asked them enough questions, laid enough puzzle pieces out on the table with them and said, okay, what do you see now? Or what's what's coming together for you?
00:23:14
Speaker
And the answer really oftentimes lied within themselves, but either they didn't have enough questions believe in themselves. They didn't have enough confidence in their thinking.
00:23:27
Speaker
ah Maybe they just hadn't put some of the pieces together. and so it felt like I was doing more there that I gave them something.
00:23:38
Speaker
But really, i just helped them see something for themselves in a different light or a little more clearly, some sort of insight unlocked that they had not been able to access before.
00:23:51
Speaker
So that's what I would say. I would say, yes, they're saying they want answers, but what they want is somebody to sit there with them through it and help them find their way that they can have agency and autonomy over, that they didn't feel like they were managed, that they didn't feel like they were being manipulated into a particular thing.
00:24:14
Speaker
Because if I do that and it doesn't work, guess whose fault it is? They're going to say, oh, well, Heather told me to do that and it didn't work. So it's all her fault.
00:24:25
Speaker
But if we're working through that together and you're like, hey, I've like, Because of these reasons, I think this is the and think this is the next best step forward. And you have agency and ownership over choosing that.
00:24:40
Speaker
Now it's a co-created thing. We're in it together. And nobody's right or wrong. It's just like, what are we learning? Is it working? Is it taking you closer to the direction you're trying to get to?
00:24:51
Speaker
Or is it not? And we need to course correct and try something new. Does that make sense? yeah Yes, it absolutely does. And I'm thinking something's coming to mind okay as ah as it relates to ambiguity and being able to sit there and listen and observe and be patient.
00:25:09
Speaker
And I can't help but think that timing has a lot to do with, you know, how I behave and I respond in the moment. Am I wrong and in thinking that you have to have the right timing? If I'm sitting there and and I'm idle and I'm waiting for the right opportunity, what does the right opportunity look like? Help help coach me through, you know, how do I graduate through that conversation? Am I there for just listening and I take it all in and I restate?
00:25:34
Speaker
what they're telling me and I kind of hope anchor them in ah in a different way other than jumping to the conclusion. I mean, how important is timing? Let me back up. How important is the timing and how long do i have to wait before I start, you know, actually moving and having not only sharing what what I think the answer is, but have when have I listened enough or heard enough before I go ahead and act?
00:25:58
Speaker
Does that make sense? Yes, yes. Again, like I think that that kind of question is exactly what we're talking about because you're you're looking for certainty there. Okay, just tell me how many minutes, what's the what's the right question to ask and how can we accelerate this? and This is the sitting in the ambiguity of it is it's an art.
00:26:20
Speaker
It is a true art. And there is a timing aspect, which is sometimes when I teach the skill set to others, they'll tell me there's this whole group of questions that we talk about.
00:26:33
Speaker
I call call it the a level of the elevator. If you think about I can ask you questions at different levels that are going to a direct attention to different parts in your brain. So if I ask you ah here's ah here's a non-business example.
00:26:50
Speaker
If I say, Chris, what's out that door right behind you? You're going to flip around and look to that door. If I say, what's out the window in front of you, you're going to look forward. So I can do that. I can turn the neck of your brain, if you will, based upon the types of questions I ask. And there's this whole group of questions, which are called thought process questions.
00:27:14
Speaker
And when I first teach them to somebody, they're like, I don't get these. I've never asked a question like this. These like, I don't see how these would even be helpful. And the first thing that I usually say is, well, who are you trying to get information for?
00:27:30
Speaker
Because if you're trying to get information for you so that you can fix it, these questions tell you nothing. But they're not designed for you. They're designed for the coachee or for the client that you're working with to be able to have get them to. um So, for example, one of the questions is, you know, how often how often are you thinking about this?
00:27:57
Speaker
And if they say, like, I think about it every day, it's consuming my every waking moment because I can't I don't know how to move forward until I figure this out.
00:28:09
Speaker
Oh, the next question i usually ask is, well, how much longer do you want to keep doing that?
00:28:15
Speaker
I don't need to know that answer, but that's their reckoning moment for that timing question that you're asking. Like, am I really ready to dig in to all the discomfort because I'm tired of spending every waking moment every day for who knows how long?
00:28:31
Speaker
Or do I say, I'm actually willing to let it go for another couple months? Timing's probably not right. They're not ready to dig in yet. But even that self-realization, that aha of, um I've had people say, oh my gosh, I can't believe how much time This is actually taking up of my life.
00:28:51
Speaker
And I need to stop that because that's not how I want to keep moving forward. And that's the thing that moves them into action to say, all right, let's go.
00:29:03
Speaker
Let's dig in. And so there is a timing aspect. And then there's the sitting in the space with them. And again, it's an art.
00:29:14
Speaker
We can't rush someone to clarity because there's a lot of internal wrestling, especially with some of the things that we're talking about, where the decisions I make about my business impact my employees' lives, their families' lives, um,
00:29:35
Speaker
suppliers that i'm working with like the decisions i make are part of a larger ecosystem and have ripple effects that go far out beyond the one decision i make so these are not easy things like well great let's just look at all the options and pick one off the list and move forward no there's a lot that goes into weighing how much risk am i willing to take um how find How much can I bear financially? Those types of things. And so ah there are no clear answers, but it's an art. And as you develop presence with this skill set,
00:30:14
Speaker
you'll You'll notice when somebody has an aha that's ready to move them forward and you can move to different levels of questioning to help them get into action or at least develop plans.
00:30:27
Speaker
ah And then sometimes it's just sitting in the uncertainty until they feel clear. And that often um may take longer than what we'd like where we're like billable hour environment. Let's like keep this moving. Let's go, let's go, let's go. but The reality is like that's not the way humans process information. That's not the way we grapple internally with these things that we're dealing with. So there isn't one clear answer for you, Chris. I'm sorry.
Developing Inner Skills for Advisory Roles
00:31:03
Speaker
You know, i'm I'm thinking because I've been a leader at a firm. OK. And as a leader, we spend a ton of money money on training. And that includes advisory skills and soft skills.
00:31:15
Speaker
And what do you say to that managing partner or that senior leader that says, we spend a ton of money on training? Why else do they need to be trained as a trust as a trusted advisor? I mean, what what really are, what what is, you know, what's the I know what the benefit is, you know what the benefit is, but you've got this senior leader that's struggling because of the dollars that and have already been spent.
00:31:40
Speaker
And what do you share with them to bring them aboard with this particular way of of thinking? and So the first question I would ask is, what types of training have you invested in so far?
00:31:53
Speaker
And 90, I'll say the time, I'll leave room, but of the time, it's on just the The advisory skill sets. So just asking questions, just listening, just, um oh gosh, why are they escaping right now? But it's, but it's very, they're approaching it from a very technical perspective.
00:32:18
Speaker
That is one piece. The reason why we don't demonstrate those behaviors more frequently, even if we've been trained with the skill set, is this inner development work.
00:32:32
Speaker
So what are the fears that run behind the surface that keep me from demonstrating those skills that I've learned? So for example, if I am afraid of not looking like I'm smart,
00:32:49
Speaker
My chances of really sitting in a space of curiosity and asking questions that I don't know the answer to because I'm genuinely curious versus asking questions that are more diagnostic and designed for me to pull out more information so I can fix it probably won't come online.
00:33:09
Speaker
because I'm not comfortable with the fear of not looking smart, not being technically proficient or coming in with all the right answers. um I'm going to have a hard time just even the the discomfort of being uncertain.
00:33:29
Speaker
So not just even the fear of not looking smart, but this feels yucky for me to not have an answer. much less what it's feeling like for the client.
00:33:40
Speaker
If I, if I tell myself that that's dangerous or it's like, it's not good not to know, then I'm going to have a hard time demonstrating these behaviors.
00:33:51
Speaker
If I like to have, feel like I'm in control, then sitting in ambiguity doesn't feel good because I'm,
00:34:03
Speaker
I'm not running the show here. And that's that's deeper inner development work. But I don't know that the skills where we've spent time investing all this money will always come online the way that we want them to until we get underneath these beliefs, fears, and assumptions that hold us back.
00:34:24
Speaker
And one of the things like I can give you an example of one that everybody relates to because we've all been here. How many feedback trainings have you been to, Chris, in your career?
00:34:35
Speaker
How to give feedback to a colleague? Too many to remember. Too many to remember. Yes, we we all. have And if we took if I gave you a multiple choice test on how to give good feedback, I'm sure you would pass it because we all know what we're supposed to do.
00:34:52
Speaker
Yet in the moment when I'm sitting here in front of you and I've got, especially if we feel like it's hard or it might hurt your feelings or I'm uncomfortable having to be the one that shares it with you.
00:35:10
Speaker
It's not because I don't have the skills. There's something going on for me below the surface of, I don't want you to not like me. I don't want to hurt your feelings. i don't um I don't want to be courageous here. i don't want to step into something that I might not know how to handle.
00:35:31
Speaker
So I hold myself back from doing it. And I try to tell you in a way that I hope you're getting what I'm putting down, but then I'm going to put a lot of stuff around it so that it probably got lost anyway. And you have no idea what I was trying to share with you. And we've talked around it.
00:35:49
Speaker
That's a perfect example of what I'm talking about. It's not that we don't know how to give feedback. We haven't done the work to be able to do it in a way that ah doesn't put me at risk.
00:36:02
Speaker
And if I feel like I'm at risk, I'm always going to default to self-protection. And the same is true when we're in these advisor relationships. If I have to hold up a mirror to you or share something that I'm hearing from you or I'm sensing from you that might be difficult for you to hear. mean, that's a trusted advisor.
00:36:27
Speaker
But that's a hard behavior to engage with if It's more important that you like me or it's more important that you think I'm smart or it's it more important that you think I've got everything under control.
00:36:43
Speaker
and that's that's not just. It is a competency we can develop, but it's not where we've typically focused in the advisory skill trainings that I see commonly offered.
00:36:59
Speaker
So if I am a senior leader. Okay. And this sounds fantastic. Trusted advisor. yeah It's needed. We need to be more human. AI is out there.
00:37:11
Speaker
We got to differentiate, you know, who we are and our skillset and the complete value that we offer um as to our clients. So how do I get started? I mean, I know smart people like you are absolutely a solution, but where do I find you? Where do i what's my next step?
00:37:31
Speaker
The first step is to look inside yourself, to to get some self-awareness about what am I doing that's contributed to the environment that we're currently getting?
00:37:43
Speaker
And by that, I mean, we are a microcosm of the systems in which we operate. So if I'm noticing that those competencies and behaviors that we've talked about of a trusted advisor are not ubiquitously present, I need to start by examining myself. How often am I demonstrating those internally?
00:38:05
Speaker
with the people I work with. Do they see me being curious? Do they see me saying, you know what? I don't know. this is This is something we haven't encountered before, but let's let's work through this. do How do I respond when somebody else asks a question?
00:38:24
Speaker
Do I dismiss it and say, like i you should know this? i mean Or do I say, i don't know. Let's talk through it. Let's see let's see where you are with your thinking. Because if I'm not demonstrating it, then people are not going to see that behavior rewarded and to have that modeled for them.
00:38:44
Speaker
So the first thing is to kind of look internally. How do partners talk to partners about situations inside the business? I mean, all of these things will give us indications of kind of where we are today.
00:38:58
Speaker
And then it's once we say, okay, we need to design the systems in which we operate to say that this truly is important, not just with our words, but with our actions.
00:39:11
Speaker
Then you find somebody to help come in and work with you to say, can you can you help us do this inner development work, help teach us the skills, but make sure we're also doing the process.
00:39:25
Speaker
The internal consciousness work, at upgrading our operating system so that those behaviors can come online consistently, because otherwise it's just going to be more wasted investment of we all know what to do, but we don't.
00:39:42
Speaker
We don't do it in practice because other things are rewarded.
00:39:48
Speaker
You know, I i have a, you I'd like you
Conclusion: Evolving into Trusted Advisors
00:39:52
Speaker
to give a takeaway. I know we're getting we're getting close to the end of our time and we need to have you share. We talk about a complex situation. We've got clients that have unique needs. We're talking about being a trusted advisor.
00:40:04
Speaker
What is that one takeaway? I mean, we talked about a lot today, but what is that one key takeaway you want to leave with this audience so they can be better as a result of tuning in to us today?
00:40:17
Speaker
I think the one thing I would like to leave them with is that this is something that can be developed, but not necessarily through a traditional training approach.
00:40:32
Speaker
Traditional training can help teach us some of the skill sets that sit behind it, but But it's possible. ah it like there is There is an avenue to helping develop this competency of being a trusted advisor, but it's deeper work than what we're typically used to taking on.
00:40:57
Speaker
ah It's a lot of what goes on that inner game that we like the inner game runs inside of our head. Nobody else gets to see that they get to see the outer game. So how does what's going on inside my head manifest itself in what people can observe about me?
00:41:16
Speaker
And as we work on that inner game, then our external behaviors will start to shift. And that's a different level of development. And I don't even want to use the T word because I don't think that's training.
00:41:31
Speaker
I think that is a developmental approach that to how we build our build our talent.
00:41:45
Speaker
You know, I think about early on, I said you're very smart lady. You are absolutely a smart lady. And she's a CPA, by the way. Thank you. Thank you. So um the knowledge and the expertise that you bring in this particular area is absolutely necessary.
00:41:59
Speaker
I think being a trusted advisor is something that everyone needs to adjust to. It's not just within the accounting profession. It's just within business. I mean, we have to think about it that way. If we are advising anyone and we're teaming in any way, I see the value in in going through an exercise like this. So I do thank you for your time because you are a very busy lady. Thank you. So thank you for all of your time and your energy that you put into this conversation today.
00:42:25
Speaker
I appreciate you, Chris. Thank you for having me. Awesome. You know, one thing I want to share with the audience as I look into the camera, I'm going to say this and I'm to try and keep it short and sweet. Being a trusted advisor is absolutely necessary. Do not be afraid to try new concepts, new ideas, new training materials, because we are all evolving. This is a transformative world that we're in today. And we have transformed in the past, but these times that we're engaging in today are very different. So do not be afraid to just take it.
00:42:57
Speaker
understand it and become a trusted advisor for your client. As always, enjoyed the conversation today and I look forward to future conversations. Thank you for your time.