Transcript
Speaker: All right, Dustin, as always good to be here. good to be here too good to see you good to see you get that out of the way that's right yeah Hey, last time we talked about ethnonationalism. Yes. And we were looking at certain.
Speaker: Bible verses that a lot of folk and in the broader... Reform camp. are using to support a form of ethnonationalism. We dealt with those main texts that they use, and and we kind of put a little different interpretation on those texts, or at least a different application, I should say. Yeah. but Maybe a little bit of both.
Speaker: And so I would encourage folk, if they haven't seen that. particular episode to go back and watch that one or listen to that one because it's really foundational to what we're going to talk about today we're just going to continue the conversation yeah But we're going to look at some.
Speaker: larger theological, biblical issues, not just those few specific texts that that they try to make their case from. we We don't think they succeed in making their case. Doesn't mean we're not brothers. Doesn't mean we're.
Speaker: You know, being angry or ugly or anything like that. We'd love to get in a room and talk. I mean, we do that all the time, right? Yeah. Outside of what we're doing now. This is just sort of an extension of our. conversations throughout the week. So we love batting things back and forth, talking to folk, but we do want.
Speaker: Oh. you know, the gospel to go forward. We do want the the Lord to reign supreme as he does. We we do want to. Make sure that our our authority is Scripture and Scripture alone and not any...
Speaker: you know, fleshly desires or cultural desires or You know, just a longing for the good old days or anything like that. Right. And I'm not accusing folk of that. I'm just saying.
Speaker: um We want scripture to be our authority. And and if that's the case. then we want to make sure that we understand what the scripture says and then how to apply it to our current cultural moment. Exactly. That's always the difficulty, ah the application. I think sometimes just as a side issue, sometimes we can be overly loose with.
Speaker: You know, our applications, well, you know. does god really say this is bad or that's bad but i think on the other hand sometimes we can be overly legalistic. Hmm. And we forget that.
Speaker: that when God says certain things, they're they're all in a context, and we need to apply them to our context. ah But sometimes we can just sort of ignore what God says. So anyway, I could go on and on.
Speaker: As I typically do. but um Let's just dive right in. okay I guess the main thing. that that we want to put on the table is that the whole concept of ethno -nationalism seems to To us, and listen, most of the reform community, um there's only a...
Speaker: a small group right now who's sort of you know going in this direction But... You know, we make a distinction between um Old Covenant Israel and the church. I know a lot of... um Reform folk, particularly those from the...
Speaker: Again, we use these terms just to just as ah nicknames and and ways to describe it. The Westminster Camp. Mm hmm. you know, they do see Israel as the old Testament church. um We don't see it that way. We're not dispensationalists. We're covenantal, but but we're Baptist. yeah So we don't see it that way.
Speaker: But I do think that one thing we can agree on. Is that. um that old covenant israel and particularly just that that earthly people It is in fact distinct from the church.
Speaker: And so... Old Covenant Israel. And in in some it was an ethnicity. And by the way, ethno -nationalism. We need a little definition, a working definition. yeahs Yeah. Yeah. It's a particular type of nationalism. yeah that is focused on...
Speaker: grouping people by their ethnicities. yeah yeah I think. ah I struggled last time I kind of beat around the bush. I mean, I got to that, but it's like, well, I don't. i don't I didn't memorize something out of Webster's, but anyway. um Is Webster still around? That's a whole other issue. online. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
Speaker: Uh... We used to carry it in a book bag, but anyway. Um... So, yeah, the nations are rooted in ethnicity. and and And you know, you can see that. in in the way things have fallen out for most nations all over the world.
Speaker: And we're not saying that America is just an idea. ah But we want to talk about what the Bible says, though, before we get to America. But, um... Where was I going? Oh.
Speaker: The, the... the Old Covenant Israel. uh certainly an ethnic group now gentiles could be proselytized and and brought in as long as they Um,
Speaker: committed themselves to the true and living God, as long as they bound themselves to Israel and and Israel's God, the God of the Bible. are the only God, the only true God. As long as they agreed to.
Speaker: Submit to... ah the terms of the covenant. In other words, full assimilation. Right. Couldn't bring their pagan idols in. Exactly. Anything like that. And, of course, that's where a lot of the contemporary ethno -nationalists are coming from. Some of them don't want.
Speaker: You know. pagan worship centers in our nation and all of that. And I understand that. And we're going to address that perhaps. But to I don't want them either, but I'm not in favor of outlawing them or anything like that.
Speaker: but um But we've got to have a biblical reason as to why or why not. Can't just say, oh, well. Because we're not just... you know. What did we say a few weeks ago, classic liberals? So. um Again, all of these things. yeah I'm not trying to put caveat upon caveat or explanation upon explanation, but I think our audience is pretty broad. so We don't want people to misconstrue what we're saying.
Speaker: But... um i think I think the problem, and you tell me what you think about this. Well, I know what you think. We've talked about it. but Um, if if you If you try to define...
Speaker: Well, if you try to... If you try to define America in the same way that Old Covenant Israel... If you say in America is in the same type of relationship with God that old covenant Israel was, now you're running into a big problem, a covenantal problem. Sure.
Speaker: If you try to equate Israel and the church, you're you're running into a different kind of covenantal problem. ah The church, of course. is comprised of levers.
Speaker: right and so let's just Cut to the chase. The the the church. And the nation in which we live in are two different things. right Now, again, we're not saying, and you can go back to previous broadcasts. We've talked about this of entire episodes and when it's laced throughout all of our broadcast.
Speaker: We're not saying that. The church or Christians. shouldn't seek to engage in the public square. We're not saying that the church shouldn't seek to influence our government. right We're not claiming there's such a thing as neutrality. There is no neutrality. The whole episode on that. right Christians. should influence government. and and If you're defining a Christian nation as well, we want, you know...
Speaker: Christian. values and and laws rooted in in Christian. principles and biblical values. uh you know good laws that reflect the reality of who god is if you're talking about that okay Yeah, well reward yeah we're on board.
Speaker: So having said all of that. you know, introductory material, I think. One of the things that the ethno -nationalists can do... Is, um...
Speaker: they they it It seems to me it's it's a mixing, a confusing. because again, they're going all the way back to old covenant Israel, equating it to America. equating it to the church at the same time. Now the And again, they would say there's a separation of church and state. I not um i don't want to be guilty of.
Speaker: Putting up a straw man that we can easily knock down. um but But there's this confusion there and it's hard. It's hard to. It's hard to pinpoint because I know that they're that they believe in a separation of church and state on the one hand, but on the other.
Speaker: When you're talking about. Um, yeah you know why can't americans have their own ethnicity Mm hmm. you know You got Japanese people that...
Speaker: that look like Japanese people. Right. You got it. German people like German people. and You know, French people who, you know, and then again, they'll go back to culture and ethnicity, but.
Speaker: Russian people, you know there's a distinct people there. Well, in America, it's just this. This hodgepodge of people. Why can't we have our own right yeah the military why can't we have our own ethnicity? And, um well, you know, obviously.
Speaker: We are on board. and And I want you to jump in. Forgive me. I'm just i'm yeah running on until we kind of get to the point. i just We're on board with... some shared culture.
Speaker: Shared values. Shared. um yeah You know, ah understanding of. Civil government, shared understanding of law, the rule of law. We've said this, liberty and justice for all. Right.
Speaker: ah But we we don't. is As long as you're willing to assimilate. I mean, that's even... Wasn't that part of the issue? I mean, what wasn't that allowed under the old covenant? Right. Right. Yeah. Right. You know what I mean?
Speaker: So? You know, there's somebody from Japan, somebody from China, somebody from Germany, somebody from Russia. Somebody from Mexico. Somebody from Iraq. They want to come over here.
Speaker: But they are committed to. Um... What the United States of America is. Mm hmm. and And by the way. What it is now is a mess. Sure.
Speaker: But... I think from. a biblical perspective we We we believe in going back to that liberty and justice for all. That's going to be our little catchphrase. Go back to previous episodes if you want some elaboration on that. but um The rule of law.
Speaker: you know, the the the Christian worldview. You know, you go to other countries, they don't even believe in free speech. Well, we believe in free speech. Right. So you've got to commit to free speech. you know I'm using that as a microcosm if you're going to assimilate.
Speaker: And be ah be an American citizen. you Yeah. Yeah. i' na or no yeah um What it was. assimilate into what it was founded and intended to be. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There you go. Versus what it has become. Right. And we would say that...
Speaker: Part of the reason that it's become what it has become. ah is not just because different ethnicities have come in, but it's because... ah different world views and different cultures and different ways of thinking.
Speaker: have not been assimilated but have been i don't know what the word is but it's been mixed in with it yeah yeah melting pot that's right uh um kind of um thinking.
Speaker: um Which, again... It's... On the one hand, it's a beautiful thing to have people from other cultures. and other nations together. But again, we want that shared value.
Speaker: um And it's... As we talked about in the last episode, it's not it's not a white value. It's not any particular. Ethnic value. um But it's those things as Christians.
Speaker: those things that that we do believe our nation was. founded on that are rooted in a biblical worldview. Yeah. Those are the things that we want to preserve. Yeah. Regardless of what.
Speaker: color skin the person may have. right And I do think that's a big part of the discussion. It may not be the color of the skin, might not be the... The main part, or at least the part they want to emphasize, but they do talk about it. And then that's that's ah that's a little alarming to me.
Speaker: But on the other hand. um Going back to ethnicity, as you pointed out. Um, You know, one of the things that they would say, I'm talking about the ethno -nationalists, the Christian ethno -nationalists, one of the things they would say is, ah Well, you can't really be.
Speaker: an American, if if you're born and raised in a different culture, how are you going to really assimilate? you You, you... you're not you can't become ethnically american and and setting aside skin color you know just Heh.
Speaker: So... You know, can can you truly understand what it is to be an American? rooted in a Christian worldview. you know, liberty and justice for all. Well,
Speaker: you know i want to I want to push back on that a little bit, as you said just a moment ago. Um. Um, um... I'm going to bring in something we talked about, but I'm going to come at it from a different angle, and you don't know what's in my head, so I'm really catching you off guard. so Forgive me, but just. ah A little quiz.
Speaker: ah no It's not a quiz, but... I didn't study. Yeah. Amen. Amen. Um, It's really not a quiz because you don't know where I want to go with this, but you might be able to guess it. but Um,
Speaker: Well... You have to deal with eschatology. I'm really fast forwarding in the discussion. you have to deal with eschatology to a certain degree because ah the ethno -nationalist vision.
Speaker: It's really a subset of post -millennialism. Now, not all, in fact, the vast majority of post -millennials are not ethno -nationalist. I'm talking about here. And so it's it's really a subset of that. And I'm not saying that.
Speaker: There's not some amillennialist out there. <unk> or even some pre -millennialists who might not subscribe to it. But but the idea. you know, in their in their vision.
Speaker: is that... Okay. well Well, let me back up the bus before I say in their vision. What do the post -millennials say? you know, Generally. Short sentence.
Speaker: What's going to happen? That, um... Christ is gonna... the The kingdom of Christ is going to rule over the the whole world. Yeah. There's going to be. uh, that Millennial reign is going to take place on the earth.
Speaker: Um, In the form of the gospel spreading, but but also... um as a lot of post millennials will take it then that step further. that there will be actual Christian government. yeah all around the world. That's right. That's right. 100%.
Speaker: And all of that happens before Jesus comes. Yes. yeah Yeah. So... You know people accuse me of being... post -millennial Some accuse me of being a millennial. So it's an equal you know equal opportunity there.
Speaker: but um Because on the one hand. I don't fit neatly into either category And most of us, okay, well, you're just confused. Okay.
Speaker: I don't think so. I think if you're talking about the darkness of grace and you say, you know ah well, I believe you know three or four, this, that, or the other. Yeah. Okay. Well, you don't understand. they They all must hang together. Right. Different episode. I'd love to do that one, by the way. Sure. But anyway.
Speaker: But i'm I'm not so sure. It's the same way with with your eschatological view. And the reason I say that. is because you and I both believe, and again, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but but we believe the gospel.
Speaker: Mm -hmm. People. structures, whole cultures. We believe that with all our heart. We also love to quote the scriptures at the Postmill. that those avowed staunch postman's love to quote uh The knowledge of the Lord will cover the earth as the waters cover the sea. We love we agree with that. yeah Love that. Absolutely. um We believe that the gospel can transform.
Speaker: It will transform governments. We've seen it happen. Um... the The only question in my mind. is whether or not That, that. All of the governments of the world and and the entire world is going to be.
Speaker: The old Postmills would say most um most of the world would be saved. They've revised it. The new Postmills say, well, not necessarily. say, but Christianized. Right. I think part of the reason for that is because we all have a question about certain verses. One of those verses in Revelation 20, I think it is, about the the last rebellion there right before.
Speaker: Christ comes. We're all these. Yeah, if everybody's saved, where's the rebellion coming from? Right. So I think a lot of folk have modified their view just a little bit. So Christianize. but they still believe.
Speaker: You know, the whole world will be Christianized before Jesus comes. And I'm saying. Hey. I believe God can do that. want God to do that through the gospel. Don't know if...
Speaker: that actually happens, or if ultimately Jesus is the one. who destroys. ah his enemies by you know, his arrival, you know, the the the consummation of all things. So I'm just.
Speaker: I don't know. I'm not sure. I read 1 Corinthians 15. You know, on Monday, one way. And then I read it on Tuesday a little different way. And then I come back on Wednesday and I have how do these things merge? Anyway, you know what I'm saying? i'm trying but But I don't fit neatly in the Amil camp either. and And the reason I would say.
Speaker: yeah You know, a lot of folks will say, well, okay, well, you're on mill. Well, because I believe that we're in the thousand -year reign now. Well, so do post mills. Yeah. so Older Postmills saw it sort of as a...
Speaker: a golden age after this period but the modern post mills you know they i think most of them would say we're in the thousand year reign now yeah so Okay. but But the difference is, in the Amil, most Amils would say,
Speaker: Well, the the kingdom of Christ... it's It's a heavenly reign. it's ah It's a spiritual reign. Okay. Yes, it's heavenly. It's a spiritual. and And they would downplay.
Speaker: the the influence of the kingdom in the earth. It's more of a ah heavenly reign rather than an earthly reign. Well, whereas the Postmills, and I would agree with the Postmills on this, would say.
Speaker: Well, of course, it's spiritual. It's a spiritual kingdom. It's a heavenly reign. but it has massive influence and massive impact in the earth. Sure. And where to go forth. Uh... As victorious.
Speaker: Uh, believers who are ruling and reigning with Christ. It's not just a heavenly rule and reign. It's not just a future rule and reign. It's a rule and reign now. right Now, I don't take that rule in rain.
Speaker: and this is where some of the rub is not all of it because i don't i don't go all the way you know, with... with Those were called pietists. The ruling reign is not through arms or, you know, the power of the flesh. or or You know, listen. Let's all kill the infidels. It's not that.
Speaker: I'm not saying... Post. The Postmills believe that. They don't. Right. Well, you say not through earthly government. Yeah, not through earthly government. And, of course, their pushback is going to be, well, Jesus has authority over all things, right? Sure. Yep.
Speaker: Jesus wants us to influence government? Yep. So so can he rule and reign through government? Yeah. But the question is. What does that ruling ring look like through earthly government, given...
Speaker: All of that to say... to come back to this, and I'm so sorry. Took me so long to get there. What does that rune rain look like? When you understand that the church and the state.
Speaker: or the church and the earthly nation are not the same thing. right That's the point. Right. Yeah. um Yeah, because... um you know We believe that. government is an institution that was set up by God. um but It.
Speaker: Again. was something that was set up. out of necessity for man's sinfulness, correct? Yep. Because We can't. treat each other rightly. yeah Right, because we're sinners. Right. And so we need we need government to help.
Speaker: to help with that. um And so. It is something that is set up by God. But... It's not the end goal. it's not it's not Um, That's it's not the the picture of what.
Speaker: Christ's reign is going to look like. yeah Christ's reign is going to look unlike any. government that we see on the earth. Yeah. past, present, or future. Right, right. Yeah, so...
Speaker: In a few minutes, if we have time. Bleh. We're gonna... You touched on like three things there that are so critical. you know, the the spheres of government and versus.
Speaker: say church and then family. So we're going to do a little Kuyperian. dynamic there. Um, but you also ah I forget what you said, but anyway, sorry. It's okay, me too. i had I had two other things in my head that, man. That's good. He's already.
Speaker: talking about two or three things we wanted to talk about. Um, But yeah. The, uh... I think that's one of the things that... And again, we're talking in circles and it's not your fault. It's my fault. Forgive me.
Speaker: But this this all kind of merges together. But... You said... And you were 100 % right that post -mill see the gospel. It's transforming the earth, transforming government.
Speaker: Okay. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Agree. here's Here's the problem. Right. It seems to me, and I don't want this to be a straw man, so I don't i don't know how far I want to push it. Happy to have some feedback.
Speaker: Right in. Whatever. Yeah. um Email us at randomhousepod at gmail .com. Cool. rentalhousepod at gmail .com. Got it. Yeah. Yeah please do.
Speaker: Um. It seems to me that all this talk about And again, We're happy to talk about Christian influence on government. Absolutely. But when you put it in the context of ethnonationalism.
Speaker: mm -hmm And. Getting it done now somehow, some way. it It just sounds like so I'm not gonna set up a straw man, but it feels like Somehow, someway, we think that's going to happen apart from the gospel. Because every time...
Speaker: Somebody like you or somebody like me says. Hey. ah We're all about it. Let's keep preaching the gospel. Oh, there you go again, just preaching the gospel. You don't want anything to do with government. No, that's not what we're saying.
Speaker: But you know what? Here's some other things they'll say. Why are Christians so afraid to take the reins of power? Hmm. Well, who's afraid to take the reins of power? Right.
Speaker: But I will say this. Two things. Number one. The Bible actually says, not by... might not by powers, but by my spirit says the Lord. I mean, you got to deal with that. And then and then secondly.
Speaker: Um... How are we going to take the reins of power? When we got an entire nation of infidels. They don't agree with anything we believe. Right. How are you going to do that? Right. I think the gospel is prerequisite.
Speaker: Absolutely. To a Christianized government. Yes. Do you not? Absolutely. And and yeah, and that's part of the problem with. If if. If you want to say that it's got to be divided by...
Speaker: Ethno. Ethnic lines. um then, then. How? How do we get to that end goal? of Christ ruling over all of the nations. Mm -hmm.
Speaker: If. We have to keep these nations over here because they're a different ethnicity and they can't be assimilated. Mm hmm. And again, that's not saying force borders and just bring everybody in. and just have the melting pot.
Speaker: um It's saying that we want. the gospel to be at the forefront. Because we want the gospel to change hearts and minds so that people from every ethnicity, from every tribe, nation, and tongue.
Speaker: are of one mind yes um and then as hearts and minds are changed that's when they all start worshiping the same king jesus yeah yeah um and Again, not to set up the straw man to try to knock it down.
Speaker: But if you take this out to its logical conclusion to where. the The right way is to divide on these ethnic lines, and we can't. and under any circumstance, include...
Speaker: other ethnicities into our... ah you know, our people, um then... Again, the only way that Christ can conquer. In that mindset.
Speaker: is by the sword. Yeah. Right? Yeah. um And. And again, I feel like that flies in the face of the gospel. Yeah. um because the gospel doesn't say to... to Kill the sinner. right The gospel says to to offer life to the sinner because we're all sinners and we're all going to die.
Speaker: Um, But the gospel is what gives. the hope of life for people. Yeah. And it's by having their hearts and minds changed. Yeah, that's right. Not through. force That's right. And... um that that brings us to a couple of other things but but and we've we've tried to Even if, even though we just do conversation and even though it's around about. conversation every time.
Speaker: We tried to. pretty carefully lay a foundation. on civil law, civil government in a previous broadcast. and difference between ah the covenants and all that, right?
Speaker: And I think one of the reasons that... that that we would say. Um, Government. civil law in the United States. We're not theonomists. Okay.
Speaker: Why not? Well, again, distinction between. The covenants were not under that old covenant. I mean the church in the Israel two different things. Okay. Well, what about civil government in the world well let's go back to creation so we did a whole ah Probably two episodes on that. and So...
Speaker: Creation order. ah The Noahic Covenant. Covenant with... with noah and then creation and and you know ah Thou shalt not kill, and thou shalt not steal, all rooted in that. Gleaning principles from the old covenant, that's fine, but not wholesale.
Speaker: not just Moses. Mm hmm. but general revelation. Yeah. and natural law. But there again, informed by special revelation, which is the word of God.
Speaker: But that allows for all people, whether they're Christians or not. ah to be in a nation. as long as they buy into Whether they buy into the God behind the...
Speaker: Um, the the civil laws that are rooted in those dynamics. I mean, obviously want him to. To be saved. Yeah. And obviously they have to buy into.
Speaker: those civil laws, but even if they're not saved, as long as they buy into those civil laws and say, this is the culture. Of whatever. nation were apart because we're You know, I want Christians in Germany to to influence their government and yeah and have that Christian.
Speaker: worldview undergirding government, Christians in Japan. to influence to that. End. Christians in America to influence to that end. um And so my point, though, is when you get to that end.
Speaker: Not saying that everybody in the net, and they're not either. that's a natural scenario you're not saying everybody and nation has to be christians But how is it that... Yeah, when... when with I keep fumbling around because I'm just...
Speaker: There's so much, but it's... you You don't want to make it about... um you know heritage Americans per se.
Speaker: And as you said, skin color. mm -hmm uh whatever because we recognize and we've said this on previous broadcasts and you just said it Porous borders are a problem. Our government should deal with that. That's a Christian value.
Speaker: right Because you're destroying the values. that that America is founded upon and that we as Christians would would advocate. Um... and there's no neutrality.
Speaker: So porous borders is a problem. But at the same time, when you start talking about. Not allowing. you know, somebody here Just because they're not Christian, as you said, okay, that can...
Speaker: that That can be a problem. um Now, again, sometimes. You know, you're in a peacetime. And then you have peacetime policies. I'm using that as a metaphor. And sometimes you're in wartime. And you have wartime policies. Right now we're in wartime, and I'm not talking about taking up arms. I'm talking about closing the borders, for example.
Speaker: Um, I don't know where I'm going with that other than. You got to come back to the gospel because First and foremost, let... Let me just set that aside for a minute.
Speaker: and maybe in the roundabout discussion. we'll We'll come back to the point. the the What is the commission? I'll just ask you a question. What is the commission that Jesus gave us? The Great Commission? Yes. To to go into the nations. Yes. And and to proclaim the gospel to...
Speaker: Um, Baptize them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Yes. Teaching them to obey all that I've commanded you. Yes. Um, and uh But yeah, it's to it's to... make disciples yes All right. And let's take that one the next step. So make disciples of all the nations.
Speaker: Now, whether you define the nations as modern nation states, which which I don't particularly, and I define it. as people groups. I think most theologians would agree with that. but Okay. um You know, we can have many people groups in in America or we can have one people group, depending upon how you look at that. That's a whole other discussion. Mm hmm.
Speaker: But. Yeah. We do not. Even post -millennials don't believe that everybody in in all the nations is going to be saved. and And then you find the language. right right throughout Scripture.
Speaker: that God has taken a people for himself out of all the nations, chosen a people for himself out of the nations. Out of every tribe, tongue, language, right? Mm -hmm. All right.
Speaker: So if we're to make disciples of all the nations... What? All right. Nope. What is it correlated to? that What is the nature of the church? Okay, well.
Speaker: Believers. But believers from where? From every Tribe Nation in town. From every Tribe Nation in town. Now, what does the Scripture very, very clearly tell us? that the gospel Breaks down.
Speaker: Barriers. barriers And so I think part of what we're trying to say and I'm laboring is that. I think it goes against the gospel to set up. ah ethnic barriers.
Speaker: Um... We... we We said last time. That. We have more in common.
Speaker: with a born -again believer who's raised in India. We have more in common with that brother or sister. than we do with our next door.
Speaker: 10th generation or 5th generation American who's lost. Right. Don't we? I do. I think that. Yeah. Okay. Now. If that...
Speaker: Indian. Born again believer. And look. Here's a great example. Let's say there's a... Uh, I don't, well, it's just, we don't want to open the borders even there.
Speaker: ah Mass migration and ah on on ah on a... ah Short timetable, short quick scale. But I'm saying if we'll just leave it at one. If that born -again believer comes over here, and even though they don't understand,
Speaker: liberal religious liberty. or freedom of speech or justice or the. Rule of law like we do. or Or say it's somebody who was raised Muslim and they got saved and all they know is Sharia law.
Speaker: Okay, yeah. No, they're they're not going to. understand. where we're coming from. However, To me not to me. I don't say it that way I will say it this way. The gospel Over time...
Speaker: Changes our minds. On everything. Right, right. and and they're going to be more able and more likely to understand. Those things.
Speaker: you because their hearts. and minds have been changed by the gospel yes because they've been saved You know, we believe that being saved means you get a new heart, right?
Speaker: You get a new mind. Your mind now thinks differently. Your mind now understands things. differently. because it understands it in light. of Christ and in light of the gospel. and And so that's what makes these things then.
Speaker: easier for them to understand, and learn. right um And so, again. the Ultimately, what we want is the gospel to take place first, ye right?
Speaker: um and And then that that opens the heart and mind to be able. To understand. these Yeah. these more practical yeah things. yeah um i you know We talked about this off camera a little bit, but.
Speaker: Um, I think this might be a good spot to throw it in. yeah um' I'm reminded of Peter's vision. And acts. Mm -hmm. And again, you know.
Speaker: He's... Uh, having this vision. And the sheet. is let down from heaven and it's got all different kinds of animals. I mean, it even says reptiles. and Yeah. I mean.
Speaker: Things I wouldn't eat. Right, right. and and you know he hears a voice from heaven that says um take and kill and eat and and peter's a good jew right uh he's he's a whatever generation Jew. You know, he's...
Speaker: and um He's of a certain ethnicity. Yeah. and but he's also of a certain mindset um and so The picture is all of these things would be considered unclean, and what's Peter's initial reaction? No, no, no, no.
Speaker: I'm not touching those things because I've never. touch something unclean right yeah yeah um and then what does the lord tell him he says do not call something unclean that i have made clean right um and and again On the surface, okay, is this talking about food and it's okay to eat pork now? You know, those kind of things.
Speaker: and i think maybe there's an application there but if we read it in context of the story Who is about to come knock on his door? Yeah. It's Cornelius, right? And who's Cornelius? Well, he's an Italian. Right. Right? He's a he's a commander.
Speaker: Someone from Cornelius' house. but he Yeah, well, yeah, to bring him to Cornelius. Exactly. Go ahead. um And so. Uh... And then later on we see, I believe it's in the next chapter.
Speaker: um You know, some of the Jews are kind of questioning Peter because Peter does go to him and Peter. Preaches the gospel to him. He gets saved, right? Yeah. and And it's a wonderful, beautiful thing. yeah um But some of these...
Speaker: Jewish believers who Again. don't quite understand it yet, right? their Their hearts and minds have just been changed and they're still learning these things. So kind of like this. ah the hypothetical Muslim. former Muslim brother that we're talking about or or former Hindu brother that we're that we mentioned.
Speaker: Um... And. So they're trying to understand what's going on. And then Peter reiterates. But then he does explain that. um that these people are not unclean. Um, and ah yeah The interesting thing about that is... um ah The fact that.
Speaker: If you think about it, and Peter. Again was of a certain ethnicity, right? He was Jewish And... ah The person that. he would have initially thought was unclean.
Speaker: but that he has now shared the gospel with and and says, yeah, he's's he's part of the kingdom too, was an Italian. Who? Western European probably looked a lot more like us, right? So it's kind of interesting that.
Speaker: um And again, we're not accusing all ethno -nationalists of being white nationalists, but right there is some overlap there. sure And so I think it's kind of interesting that. That. would be reversed.
Speaker: yeah Because yeah the person that looked like the person that a lot of people would want to keep out at this point. is the one that was welcoming in the person that looks like us into the kingdom. right But again, the whole the whole point of that is...
Speaker: that. It... It was the gospel. That was breaking down that barrier. And yeah Peter had to realize that. you know And the Lord revealed that to him. um And then that's when we see.
Speaker: you know because this was just so early on in the story of the church um in acts and that's when we see then the gospel just starts exploding and going to In fact, the nation, yeah the Gentiles. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: And. um If I could take what you just said and... But flesh it out a little bit more. Oops. and but go back to the whole post mill dynamic.
Speaker: Um... Again, as I said, not that it matters. I personally don't don't fit neatly into a mill or post mill. Um, I think.
Speaker: you know... does It doesn't matter when you when you look at. um what the Bible says. it's just It's just difficult, but... you know,
Speaker: Again, the lack the the the one question I have. You know, when theno when the earth would be filled with the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea, that that sounds... comprehensive to me. Sure. That sounds like everything and everybody.
Speaker: And I don't think any postman will believe. That. prior to the coming of Christ that everything and everybody. And so... I don't know. I view that as a reference. on the one hand, to the final state.
Speaker: that That's why I can't go. and say, well, Hello, I'm just with you brothers. I'm Post Mill. That's the main reason. But at the same time, as we both affirm,
Speaker: we We do believe. And this is what's the interesting part. We do believe. that there's power in the gospel. and that God is on the throne And that God can save entire nations if he if he wants to, or the vast majority of entire nations.
Speaker: And. um So where I'm going with that, can I do one more side issue? I mean. There's more Christians in the earth than anything else. Right.
Speaker: And there were more Christians in the earth than any anything else pretty early on. so I mean, when you look at what the Bible says about the mustard seed and the The mountain and Daniel growing and growing. I mean.
Speaker: ah The gospel spread. Right. So, I mean, all of those things have happened and are happening. Right. And so... You know, I would push back against my Amil brothers who talk who are very pessimistic about the future. Well, I'm not pessimistic. Sure. I'm completely optimistic. Right. That's another reason they try to. you know.
Speaker: We should be in one camp. Or the other. Mm -hmm. But the point I'm making is... In light of all of that, in light of what you said.
Speaker: let's let Let's talk about... Oh. A post mill vision. We were talking about. What was it we were talking about? Some kind of vision? I can't remember. Peter's vision. Peter's vision. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, let's talk about.
Speaker: ah what What would seem to me to be a post -meal vision? Wouldn't the post -mill vision be? that all the nations of the earth... as they would define it, let's let's set aside ethno -nationalism for a minute, but wouldn't they all be Christian nations?
Speaker: In the post -movie, yes. In the post -movie? Yeah. And and in in that small group, the the Christian nations would be, that you know, they'd be like, yeah, the Christian nationalists, we we told you. Okay. Well, how are they defining it? Well...
Speaker: yeah you know, again, Probably a little bit. further than than even most post -mill. Christians would would go in terms of civil government on the one hand, but on the other.
Speaker: Let's just say you get the nations of the earth. So you've got India. It's now got... The gospel is spread. India's been Christianized. The government is is Christian influenced. Liberty and justice for all.
Speaker: And. you know, France and Germany and in China and Korea and wherever, right? It's it's it's all like that. mm -hmm All right, let me ask you a question. Not you, but... Yeah.
Speaker: R. Imaginary. Yeah, hypothetically. Our brothers who are real, but they're not in the rooms. Um, You you You're going to be – you're going to say that – Indians got to stay in India.
Speaker: Right. Because literally that's what they're saying now. That's what I've been laboring to say. That's the right way to say it. That's not a straw man. they They'd rather say. and and And those are those verses that we went over last time.
Speaker: Well, you know what? Ethnic Indians need to be in India. Ethnic Japanese need to be in Japan. Ethnic Chinese need to be in China. Ethnic Americans need to be in America. That's what they're saying. All right. You're going to hold on to that?
Speaker: First off in the final state. Of course not. But secondly, what if the earth were Christianized? Are you going to hold on to it then? I'm not being ugly. I'm just raising the question. you You don't think?
Speaker: That. Indians can't move to America, and Americans can't move to India, and we're all right at home? Right. what what a glorious What a glorious dynamic that would be if we could do that. Absolutely. and and Again, ah yeah, I guess to i I want to weigh in my opinion a little bit too on why.
Speaker: on why I can't quite go there either. Yeah. yeah um the first of all is is The notion, there seems to be... and And I may misrepresent, and if I do, I apologize.
Speaker: But there seems to be a notion. that. Setting up. Christian government or Christianized. government, is how we bring about. the millennial reign of Christ.
Speaker: And again, like I said, way back at the beginning. door It was said way back at the beginning. We don't believe that government and the church are the same thing. Right. and And we believe that government is something that was set up by God, but that it was not.
Speaker: it's not the eternal thing the church is the eternal thing that god has set up If we look throughout history, Again go back to Peter's vision that we were talking about a second ago All right, so Cornelius is an Italian, right?
Speaker: Okay, so he's not just some... Italian guy. Right? He's... He's part of what? Rome. Hmm? Okay. was Rome. Christianized.
Speaker: Was it friendly? to Christians and to the gospel. No. Quite the opposite, correct? Yeah. But where do we see the gospel exploding? Oh, man. In the Roman Empire, right? Yeah. um and and time and time again throughout history.
Speaker: Where have we seen gospel explosions take place? We've seen it in China. where there was death penalty for being a Christian, right? We've seen it in Africa. We've seen it. in the Middle East. yeah um We've seen it in all of these places.
Speaker: where there is nothing even remotely close to a Christianized government. And so that's what I see. as the kingdom of Christ. reigning in the earth. It's irrespective of what the government looks like. And so.
Speaker: Again, I'm not saying that Christians shouldn't be involved in government. right And should we try to make... Christian. laws and should we try to have Christian societies? Yes. Why? Because that's...
Speaker: It's... easier to spread the gospel that way. But does that mean the gospel can't spread if it's not? Absolutely not. Again, we've seen... in most cases, the gospel spreads even greater. in the face of persecution.
Speaker: And that's that's the kingdom of Christ. advancing in the earth. It's not setting up all of these earthly kingdoms. that are going to Be Christianized. Yeah. It's the fact that.
Speaker: regardless of what the government looks like. The kingdom of the church yeah is advancing and it's growing. That's right. And it is. It's, it's, it's. all over the globe now.
Speaker: And again, we're talking about something that started with 12 men in a little room in Jerusalem. That's right. And now it's exploded and in literally every continent. Mm hmm. We know. that there are.
Speaker: Children of the King. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you're singing my song, and it's not my song. It's your song. I'm going to say something just a minute. No, you don't want me to, but I'm going to.
Speaker: What you're talking about. is, is The power of the gospel. Right. And I just, I'm um'm with you, brother. We can't lose that. And it seems like.
Speaker: Sometimes we we we at least... forget it momentarily, or we knock on the door of ah of of what you're objecting to. And. um It is the gospel itself.
Speaker: that overcomes. and that's why Dustin, I'll just tell the folk, he he doesn't want me to, but he he wrote he writes a lot of songs. Praise God. And I would just. thankful for God's gift.
Speaker: to him and and of him. But um one of my one of my favorites. ah Probably. My favorite. yeah But I love them all. um is the gospel overcomes. and um You know, we used to do old radio broadcasts. That was my theme song. and We switched it up.
Speaker: I guess that was your decision. But anyway, um I'm not saying it was your decision. to Go with what we got. Well, I guess what we got now is sort of a hepped up. Yeah. A little blurb from it. kind of yeah But anyway, the point I'm making is.
Speaker: That's not just a catchphrase. You know, the song is about ah Jesus being on the throne. It's basically about Revelation. Right. It's taken from the book of Revelation. Yeah, chapter 5 maybe.
Speaker: And Jesus is on the throne and gospel overcomes. and you know we overcome by the blood of the lamb etc etc and You know, I even heard some Some folk not long ago kind of...
Speaker: Throwing off on the blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church. Is that what was at origin? Am I getting the quote right? But anyway. Um, its It's not that we think we lose down here. You know, we don't buy into that kind of theology. right But at the same time...
Speaker: Christianity is cruciform. ah We take up our cross, we follow Christ, and sometimes... we suffer. and in that suffering the gospel spreads through the blood of the martyrs by way of example But it doesn't mean it doesn't spread. And it doesn't mean that people aren't transformed. It doesn't mean that people don't transform.
Speaker: the areas and communities and larger structures around them. They do. And that happens. And so... To me, the... And again, I'm just going to use this term. the the the I mean, if if you really want a truly post -mill vision, it's it's the gospel.
Speaker: doing what you say you believe it will do. The gospel overcomes, and and it's the gospel that's going to... do all these things. and um Anyway, you've said it. i'm I'm just echoing what you said. I was smiling the whole time you were talking, and I was like, man.
Speaker: That's exactly right. and she's like right We. um We haven't really. Got very far down our alley. We actually do have an outline that we We say we're going to hit some points.
Speaker: And we don't always get to them, and that's largely my fault. So I think there's room to to to talk more. But, um... Maybe... maybe Maybe we could talk about one more aspect of the gospel before we wrap it up. Is that okay? Sure.
Speaker: So, We've already alluded to these things with just a little more emphasis. Um... Because... and And I want to go back. why Why wouldn't it be a glorious thing?
Speaker: you know, for us to be able to go to India and and feel right at home. now We're not going to feel right at home with the dress. not gonna feel right at home with their muse i'm not saying it's bad i'm just saying we don't dress like traditional Indian.
Speaker: do. well we don't We don't have the same music. We don't have the same food. They got a lot, lot you know, a lot of curry, a lot of, you know, spice and all that stuff. i't Listen, I like spicy food. Yeah, I like spicy food. My point is, though, yeah, there'll be different cultural dynamics.
Speaker: But man, the fellowship we're going to have because of Jesus. Right. and the barriers are broken down. And that's the point I'm making. We could go to Russia and be the same way, or they could come here.
Speaker: They got to get used to. You know, the Americanized Mexican restaurant, because it's not authentic. You know, we say it's Mexican. but Right, right. But anyway.
Speaker: i'm just having a little fun there But... they gotta a They got to get used to you know certain things in American culture. and And I don't mind, again, you said this last time. I'm with you. I don't mind.
Speaker: I think we both said it. I don't mind. Indian Christians coming over here. nay They want to, you know. keep Keep certain cultural dynamics. just yeah it's not We don't need to elevate it like, um oh, we got to have a law now. You know, we got to have.
Speaker: you know, Indian month or. you know, like gay pride or something like that. And I'm not equating gay pride and in Indian culture. No, not at all. I'm just saying we don't have to have.
Speaker: All of these. celebration of cultures per se. I'm saying as a Christian, I rejoice. in cultures that are that are different from the culture I'm raised in. And by culture, I'm talking about. The audiophora. I'm talking about, yeah maybe that's the wrong way to use that word or that context, but nevertheless.
Speaker: i'm taught I'm saying if... if Our fellowship will be in Christ. I'm not talking about... a different judicial. you know, vision or oppression. I'm not talking about Sharia law in the Muslim world.
Speaker: But I'm saying. When I see music and clothes and food and and and language and the way they interact. i I just think it's a beautiful, beautiful thing. I think God wants us to see it as a beautiful thing. Yeah, and and another thing that I was going to say when you were...
Speaker: When you were asking that question a few minutes ago. is How? How is the gospel going to... reach these people. right I mean, the Bible says... How will they know unless they've heard? Yeah. And and how will they hear unless...
Speaker: Right. Someone goes to them, right? right And so. um Again, we can't say they've got to stay over there and we should stay over here. Right. Um, I mean... Again, the whole point of the Great Commission, the whole point of the gospel.
Speaker: is that. We are to go. Yeah. um And so... Again, yeah, we don't want we don't want these. closed off little bubbles here and there right we want we want Christians to go to these nations, right? yeah ah the We want missionaries, yeah right? and and and talk to missionaries over and over and over again.
Speaker: And where is the most effective? mission work that takes place. It's not the group from the church that shows up for 10 days. and digs a well and does a Bible camp and then leaves. Right, right. It's these people that they're there yeah and they're living with them. And maybe they do dress like them and maybe they do eat like them.
Speaker: But they are living the gospel before them and they are teaching them the word of God. and they are leading them to Christ. And then as they...
Speaker: See that. it can become a part of their lifestyle, then... It changes their lives. It changes. their hearts and minds, again, as was said,
Speaker: And. Then... As that person has been saved, as you said. Why couldn't that person come here? yeah You know? um But.
Speaker: Again. How can... you have a ethno -nationalist View And still. Be about the gospel. Yeah. Because the gospel is about going. Yes. Go there. yes and And you're raising up barriers again that the gospel has broken down. Exactly. That Christ has broken down. There's neither Jew nor Greek, bond nor free, male nor female, all are one in Christ Jesus.
Speaker: And I recognize that's that's the the the the Christian community. But it's it's it's It's tied to... The Great Commission. and going to the nations. so that More and more and more and more and more. and more are all one in Christ Jesus. right and And, of course, when...
Speaker: Um. Just say you've got... Some... folk and I'm, you know, from wherever. There over here, I've got two. Indian families that I've shared the gospel with here recently.
Speaker: that that I know through some community stuff that I do. and stuff in the community I should say. And. um It's just a thrill. To be able to give them Christ. now Now, they haven't come to Christ yet, but I'm praying for them. I mean, you know that. and then then we know some other.
Speaker: Um, Indian folk. who are christians and they're They're trying to impact the Indian community here in America as well. And. Man.
Speaker: Dude. They don't look like me, but they're Americans. And better still, they're Christians. Right. you know And the barriers have been broken down. So... I guess that's...
Speaker: That's a good. Good way to say that that's where I wanted to go. the I wanted to make that theological point that you made earlier, and I just wanted to emphasize it again. that these barriers We don't want to erect barriers that God has broken down. right So again,
Speaker: We're not saying we're okay with... Open borders. That's a different dynamic, different discussion. But. this ethnonationalism thing. I think it's a big, big problem. um Great example.
Speaker: What's happening with, I'm just. We are going to close, but what's happening with the Good Samaritan? You tell me. Mmm. That's um it's a... Two different ethnicities. yeah uh that are that are intersecting i not to use that word but that are that are coming across the path.
Speaker: And. um This person is. Uh... Not choosing. to divide himself because... Well, he's a Jew and I'm a Samaritan. um But he's...
Speaker: He's obeying. the Lord, right? He's... He's offering. ah hope and life and help. to this person. yeah right And that's a picture, again, of the gospel. yes um it's It's not that this person is different from me, has a different background from me.
Speaker: Looks different than me. Whatever it was, was born in a different. place than me. Um... And I'm not gonna I'm not gonna use that as an excuse to separate myself from them. yeah um, but The Lord has told me to be a good Samaritan yeah yeah and to and to take.
Speaker: the hope and the life and the salve of the gospel that's it uh to them that that they can have life. yeah Yeah, and it's so much. um Like what you were saying earlier, too, about Cornelius.
Speaker: and Peter going to to Cornelius, but... Because I think, you know, you go into the Old Covenant. which again, national Israel, ethnic Israel. Love your neighbor.
Speaker: Okay. So Jesus is talking to the religious Jewish religious leaders. and And he tells the good Samaritan, you know, who what was the point? who Who's your neighbor? Yeah. And who were the first two that passed by?
Speaker: Yeah. yeah they were They were his brothers, right? Yeah, yeah. Like one was a priest or a rabbi or something. I can't remember the details. I'm sorry. but yeah I think one was a priest, one was a Levite, something like that. Yeah, something like that, yeah. But they were both they would have both been Jews. Mm -hmm. and and They passed by. Yeah. And so kind of like you said in the last episode and and earlier in this one.
Speaker: Um, Who had more in common? the Yeah. The the Jew that that left. Yeah. his Jewish brother to die or the Samaritan that didn't let that divide them yeah and and went and and offered compassion. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker: One of the... um One of the big dynamics that our ethno -nationalist brothers um And, and. Most of them I would say are brothers. There's some that are on the fringe. you know man you kind of wonder where these folk are but anyway it's a different issue But one of the things they talk about is the ordo amoris. The order of loves. And again, I don't know if we touched on that last time, but it's a misapplication.
Speaker: You know, love your... ah Because, you know. we are to We are to do good to all, especially the church. We are to love our families, you know, because that's our family.
Speaker: well Well, that's an issue of of the immediate responsibilities that God has given us. I gotta take care of my wife. Not every wife on the planet. Mm hmm. and And I love my wife uniquely.
Speaker: So. um But what they do is they take from that and then they build this whole. ah national kind of. Mm hmm. um Theology.
Speaker: that we've we've got to love. Americans more than we love you know. French people or Spanish people or so you know Spaniards, whatever you want to call them, Mexicans.
Speaker: I... I... i don't I don't see it that way. I can see if we're attacked, as we said on a previous occasion. if If a foreign military power. Comes in a Texas. Okay, we'll we'll defend. Our homeland.
Speaker: But... we We love everybody. Right. Right. I don't I don't love. Americans more than... ah French people or Germans, right I think that distorts the gospel is what I'm trying to say.
Speaker: Yeah, it's an order of loves, not a ah limitation of love. Yeah. Again, yeah we believe that we're to love all people. Now, am I to... uh, My first concern to be to care for my family and care for my.
Speaker: you know, localized community? Yes. Yes. As you know, as the circle widens. you know, but you start You know, i I love my wife, you know, first and foremost. Yeah. um But. That doesn't mean at the exclusion that I only love my wife. Yeah. Right? Yeah. And and so.
Speaker: Yes, we want to do. We want to care for the circle. As it's... in its smallest and and then as it gradually grows out. yeah but But there's not a point where that circle stops going out. you Yeah, yeah, yeah. um And so.
Speaker: Um, An order of loves, I think, is is good and it's biblical. Sure. um But. But not a limitation of love to where I'm only going to love yeah Americans. Yeah. And I don't care what happens to the French or to the Germans or to the Japanese. yeah you know, whatever. yeah that is well said well said it's It's really in el ah the the whole ethno -national thing.
Speaker: it's ah It's an elevation of... ah I think nature over grace or nature to grace, like what I mean by that. And and with theologians, I think. would say this. um You know...
Speaker: Neh. i'm um I'm equating nature with born in America. Born in the USA. yeah Anyway, I don't have a lot in common with Springsteen. I really don't. No. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. I just don't. Right. Even though we're both born here. That's right. but that's That's the problem, though. I think that the nationalists are...
Speaker: Saying, OK, well, I got more in common with Springsteen than I do with Joe Christian from Japan. And I i think. I think you're you're making...
Speaker: nature. American, at least on equal par with Grace Christian. And that's just wrong. And I think when you're talking about the order of loves, well, I love my brothers and sisters in Christ more than my.
Speaker: fellow Americans who aren't brothers and sisters in Christ doesn't mean I don't love my fellow Americans who aren't brothers and sisters in Christ. Right. But let's let's flip that on its head. What you said made me think of that. so Yeah. And and and again, and and in that context, it's...
Speaker: Uh, So... geography. isn't a determining factor in that there you go in my in my order of loves um the the The gospel is. Yeah. Right. So, again, my Christian brother in Japan.
Speaker: Um, is is closer to my heart to put it that way there you go there you go um then then the lost guy that looks just like me and was born in the same place as me yeah oh Yeah.
Speaker: well i used this example before and i went to russia stayed with those two russian brothers they didn't They didn't talk like me. We we didn't like the same. This ain't food. And everything was different. And, you know, we had to use a translator, but I'm telling you.
Speaker: ah the this The fellowship was sweet. And I remember both of those brothers very, very fondly, even though it's been. almost 30 years since I've seen them. yeah know And I'm looking forward to seeing them in glory one day. I can't wait.
Speaker: Amen. Yeah. so Yeah, let's talk about it a little bit more next time. li she had something else to say today or maybe some other time down the road we'd want to get too bogged down but Right, yeah. um No, um... Again.
Speaker: We... We want. We want to see... the gospel Overcome. yeah We want to see the kingdom of Christ.
Speaker: uh, reigning over the earth. um But again. what that looks like. is the picture of the church. it's It's people from every tribe, nation, and tongue being included in that body of Christ. Yeah. and um if If we have certain governments that are...
Speaker: that are friendly. To Christianity. then great. That helps us spread the gospel. But but even if not. we still know. that Christ is reigning. right And that. heart of christ rain is that he is bringing in his children, his people.
Speaker: from every corner of the globe. Yeah. Yeah. Didn't mean to point at you so you'd stop. No. which I was just. Amen. Amen. I didn't have my hanky.
Speaker: But. But that's the other thing that made me think, and I keep coming back to, to because, again, most of the SNL nationalists are. Our little small group out of the post mill. And again.
Speaker: this is why people say i'm post -mill okay so i'm just throwing out the post the post -mill vision I mean, as as I've heard many, many, many, many of my post -mill brothers say. Look, we've we've got a 10 ,000 -year view. Well.
Speaker: Okay, if that's the case... And what you just said. lines up with that. Just if if if How did you put it? If we're in a nation and and maybe the government is not completely Christian and maybe even Christianity is not in favor, it doesn't mean Jesus isn't reigning. Right. Jesus is reigning. Right. And I'm going to put it in the conscience of that post -mill vision.
Speaker: It just may take 10 ,000 years for them to work this one out for whatever the reason. his His sovereign will. Yeah. Right? So... That's not to say that, anyway.
Speaker: This is why I get bogged down, but I'm just saying. Let's don't forget. the gospel. Let's don't forget. Um, uh nature and grace let's don't forget what the ordo amoris is really about let's don't forget if If you're Postmill, what the Postmill vision is all about and how that's brought about.
Speaker: And all the rest. and And again, since I went down that road, I'll just say one more thing and then I promise you I'll be quiet and you say whatever needs to be said. but don't Don't take us out of context either. It's hard because you're talking about different.
Speaker: issues and you've always got... theological issues okay well how does that connect to this and how does that connect to that and you've always got contextual issues so Go back, listen to previous broadcasts, what we say about no neutrality, what we say about civil government.
Speaker: And then if we want to have this this robust dialogue somewhere, someway, somehow. All right. Well, how does all that fit with what you said today? Or how does what you said today fit with that? Well, we can tell you.
Speaker: So let's talk about it. Don't just. automatically assume because you're scratching your head because you don't see what we said today exactly the same or what we said the other day exactly the same. We can we can demonstrate that.
Speaker: Yeah, it's just not easy because it takes time Sure. It takes somebody who's more linear than I am. Anyway, go ahead. Sorry Well, no. Again. um Yeah, I was.
Speaker: Okay, I'm going to say it. um Hit me. Sorry, we've false closed a couple of times. I know, and I know it's my fault. But, no, you um you talked about your experience in Russia. Um...
Speaker: As you know, we're hosting in an exchange student yeah from Brazil yeah this year. And it's been a ah ah really great experience. um She's a believer. Her family are believers.
Speaker: um So they're Christians. They're involved in their church in Brazil. um And I think one of the really cool things that we've gotten to see. um is uh and you know, is People that know us know I lead worship.
Speaker: at our church, at Randall House. Right. um And, um you know, we'll... First couple of weeks there. and when she was here. uh, would be leading worship and i'd I'd look over and you know she's just kind of standing there looking at the screen you know looking kind of lost And, ah you know.
Speaker: So I guess we were singing songs she wasn't familiar with or anything. But here and there, every once in a while, I'll see her. She'll start singing, you know. along with a certain song. um and And I asked her one day, I was like, you know, so what kind of music do you guys do at your church? And she said.
Speaker: We do a lot of similar ones. um you know We do some of the same songs that you guys do. um But she said, you know, some of these songs I know in Portuguese but um and I don't necessarily know the English words, but but some of them.
Speaker: And but. Just... How cool of a picture is that? yeah That, uh... were. we can We can worship the Lord together. She can do it in Portuguese. I can do it in English. We're both singing the same words.
Speaker: to the same God. um And and and it's it's a beautiful picture of, again, what What's heaven going to look like? That's right. no I don't know what language we're going to speak in in heaven. I don't know if we're all going to. still be speaking the languages we grew up with or Who knows? Yeah. But... But that. uh We will, we're told, we'll be around the throne.
Speaker: worshiping King Jesus. from every tribe, nation, in soton and And that's... That's the hope of the gospel. That's the postmillennialism.
Speaker: that I believe in. um And it breaks down all barriers, as we said, and and it's it's it's a glorious thing. yeah and it's And it's not going to be divided. It's not going to be separated.
Speaker: um And so. That's it. That's what we want to bring about. On the earth. But that's what we look forward to. when he returns. Yep. So. Amen. Amen. All right, brother.
Speaker: We done? I think so. I think we'll cut it off there. All right. And we'll see you next time on Answering Pilot. The Answering Pilot Podcast is a ministry of Randall House Church in Greer, South Carolina.
Speaker: You can learn more at www .randallhousebeer .com. You can also find us on Facebook and Instagram at at Randall House Church. Don't forget to like and subscribe.
Speaker: and we'll see you next time.
