A Biblical Conversation On Gender (Ep. 26)

Transcript

Speaker: Dustin, good to see you today. Good to see you too. As always. We're going to. Talk a little bit about gender today. Okay. ah The roles of men and women, not just the roles of men and women, but who men and women are and who God has designed us to be.

Speaker: And obviously... A lot of folk talking about this. and I don't think. Our view has changed. ah At least mine. I don't think yours has either over the years, but it's interesting how we.

Speaker: ah talk about these things because of the different cultural moments in which we find ourselves. Definitely. Yeah. More and more. This is a a more pressing topic of conversation.

Speaker: just in our society and our culture at large. And so um we want to talk about what the Bible has to say. but Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. And. um You know, we've we've often in the past in particular.

Speaker: And I'm just speaking from a Christian standpoint. Or at least an iron. you know, circles in our world, not even think about the larger culture because I remember the first time Somebody told me what a what a web blog was a blog. I mean, okay, so i'm I'm going white. Our Gen Z audience probably doesn't even know what a weblog is anymore. Yeah, that's right. The technology moves so fast. Oh, yeah yeah, yeah. That's outdated now. Outdated now, that's for sure. But anyway.

Speaker: Yeah, but even before that, before the internet. ah We would just teach on them. you know, the design of men and women. Roles in design were... we're tied together you know god's design and you know you go through the scriptures and and paul talks about creation and things like that so We want to jump into that conversation.

Speaker: We also want to bring in A little bit of... Science, as it were. um Came across a piece. Actually, my wife sent it to me. okay And we'll we'll get to that in our discussion.

Speaker: But it's it's just talking about some of the... the scientific data with regard to biology and of course they talk about psychology but they're they're talking about the the emotional and I don't know.

Speaker: We'll just say this, the Constitution... being different between men and women. So we we're happy to use their terminology in this discussion. Yeah. When we get to that part. So anyway.

Speaker: Yeah, for sure. um and And again. um You know, we we are we are focused on what the Bible has to say about... all issues of life. and so that's That's ultimately where we're going to come back to.

Speaker: um And so we don't we don't need to rely back on. scientific journals or or those kind of things but at the same time We want to acknowledge when... even science that is not necessarily.

Speaker: Coming. Uh... with a biblical. motivation. um can still come across ah truths that the Bible would affirm. yeah And so we're going to look a little bit at... at um some scientific research that was published in this article that we talked about. yeah That's going to back up what we already know to be true. Yes. Because it comes from the scripture. That's right. That's right. Well said.

Speaker: Do you remember, just as we wade into it now, our segue, do you remember the old... ah It's kind of a, I don't know if it's a I don't know what you'd call a little story about the scorpion who needed to get across the river.

Speaker: Vaguely, yeah. I think i feel think there may be a different version. The animals might be different. It's a scorpion, but I don't remember what he's riding. I don't either. you know But he can't get across the river and he wants to hitch a ride. Maybe it's on the back of a frog or the back of a...

Speaker: Otter. Right, yeah, yeah. I don't know. Maybe a fox or something. Yeah, maybe it's a fox. I don't know. But whatever it is. ah we'll We'll say it's a fox. That's fine. um You know, he wants to hit you right. And the fox is like, no, you're a scorpion. You'll sting me.

Speaker: And he's like, well. why would Why would I do that? I mean, I don't want to. I don't want to drown and you're going to take me across the river. Mm -hmm. Anyway, you get where we're going with that. And so the Fox finally agrees. Scorpion jumps on his back. they Get halfway across the river and the scorpion stings him. Fox is, you know, incredulous, outraged. Why did you sting me? You said you wouldn't, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And his answer was, Scorpion. Yeah. I mean, that's my nature. And so it just popped in my head because.

Speaker: Again, not to focus on on the the article too much, but it opens up with kind of a... An old proverb, let me just get the quote right. um It's really from ah Horace, the poet.

Speaker: It says, ah you can try to drive out nature with a pitchfork. Yet nature will always return. I thought you were going to do the Latin. Yes. Yeah, well. Not today. Okay. but I know a few Latin words. That's it. That's it. I don't i don't speak Latin. Wish I did. Well, actually, I don't know if I wish I did. Yeah. It's a dead language. That's right.

Speaker: When you study ah academics, particularly in the theological realm, you do have to... pick one of the languages, in addition to Greek and Hebrew, you have to pick one of the languages that...

Speaker: you know, a lot of the the theological texts throughout the centuries have been written in. and the The most are either French, German or Latin. So Latin would be worthwhile. Yeah. But I went down the French road. So anyway. Yeah. So we.

Speaker: Um... that I'm not even sure what that means anymore, but nevertheless. No, I'm just kidding. Um... Alright. So let's talk about men and women. i'm I'm too prone to all this distraction. My bad.

Speaker: Um, We sort of alluded a minute ago. Well, I don't know if I alluded to, but it was in my head. but yeah ah when When we used to talk about men and women, or we still do, we we talk a lot about role. and And I think the larger discussion within evangelicalism...

Speaker: has kind of... devolved into role for various reasons, and I don't want to get into the historical background per se. And roll. you know, what's the role of the man, what's the role of the woman, et cetera.

Speaker: ah That's a perfectly legitimate discussion, but that has to... That has to be rooted in something. oh and A lot of folks think, well... you know, men and women have different roles. Well,

Speaker: they They do, but why? That's the question. And so we want to talk about design. uh how men are designed how men are created how women are designed how women are created Before we get to that, though.

Speaker: We got to talk about being. So it's not just roll and it's not just design. it's It's just humanity itself. so you know, ontology, being.

Speaker: versus functionality. so ah We would affirm what the Bible affirms that both men and women. Are created in the image of God. Right. And we know that men and women both have essential dignity.

Speaker: um We say they're they're spiritual equals. I mean, that's that's a phrase that I've used many, many times over the years. Um, equal value and all the rest. um So... None of us. I would hope none of us would disagree with that.

Speaker: We're fellow heirs of the grace of life. You know, those those kinds of things. But. you know the discussion is not just about ontology because you know Egalitarianism says, well, you know men and women are...

Speaker: are interchangeable. They're they're the same. you know When they use the term equality, I would say men and women are equal. equal in in a sense uh spiritual equals stand before god Um...

Speaker: But we're not equal in strength, for example, generally speaking. We're not saying there aren't some. women out there who are stronger than some men. But we're talking about the the rule, not the exception.

Speaker: And so... With anything, there are always these distinctions. So... A role is not just arbitrary. Roll. is tied up not only in um being, but it's tied up in design. That's what. That's what we're laboring to talk about just for the moment.

Speaker: So the question is... um yeah You know. well Well, why are men and women designed differently? Well, we're not asking that why question per se.

Speaker: Going all the way back. But we're saying. Probably. said it wrong but It comes from God's design. in creation, the creation order. So we're talking about...

Speaker: Something pre -fall, not post -fall. Because there are a lot of Christians who think, well... Okay. Yeah. Wives should submit to husbands, but that that's like part of the curse. Well, we no. right It's not part of the curse. That's pre -fall.

Speaker: And so, One of the other things I... I would just highlight. so So we're going to say... you know Men and women are designed differently, but let's let's take something like courage.

Speaker: Um, can Can both, you know, men need courage. Especially if you're in the the wilderness and here comes a bear. You know, and and hopefully, the well, the biblical man, he's going to.

Speaker: He's going to do what he can. He's going to tell the wife to get out. I'm going to do what I can. You know, or the bad guy comes along, the man's going to. take care of his wife. That's the issue. So he should.

Speaker: We don't let our wives fight for us. Um, So... Um, the The question is, well, okay, so that man's got to be courageous.

Speaker: Well, it's not to say that men and women don't have courage. right Men and women both can have courage. But... Um, the The way that that their courage is.

Speaker: is utilized. The way it's manifest yeah ah is different. So both men and women have courage. Both men and women have wisdom. both You know, they both have have strength you know to in in certain ways but again they express those virtues differently Yeah, it's manifested in different ways. That's one thing I was going to say. ah Earlier when you mentioned that um we we definitely affirm that both men and women are created.

Speaker: in the image of God. The image of God. doesn't mean that we are fully representative. of God's... Complete. character and nature, right? Right, right. So we're created in the image of him, and so...

Speaker: Um, the The things about the way we are made reflect parts of God's image and character. Yes. But we're not we're not a direct representation. of that and so that's why He can create male and female.

Speaker: and And both of those. can be in the image of God, but neither is fully representative. yeah of the full nature of God. And even those things that we are. that we do have common courage, wisdom, those things can be expressed in different ways. Yeah.

Speaker: uh because there's It's all part of the multifaceted misri image of God. That's right. Yeah, and and and just to... you know, key in on that male and female, he created them in the image of God. There is a complementary dynamic there, of course.

Speaker: And is there as a husband and wife, we're building a life together. um and so On the other hand, you you think of ah a couple that has a... ah A baby. And say this baby's a year old, whatever, 18 months.

Speaker: um It's not that the man can't. provide some nurture. They can't be. sympathetic or even empathetic. um He can. But women are designed.

Speaker: to be those nurturers, and they are much better than men. generally speaking, in those instances. And and you can see this. ah So often when when that baby...

Speaker: Needs comfort he wants mama. Mm -hmm you know dad's just not not the same in that instance right and that that's just i mean That's that's universal. so Anyway, um so...

Speaker: As we wade into this. what What are men designed to be in general? We're not trying to be exhaustive here. i mean We could talk for... weeks on this, sure right? So... But obviously men are designed to be leaders.

Speaker: They're designed to be providers. protectors protectors yeah i use the whole bear thing because My wife and I talk a lot. A lot of times I'll say, okay, well, i I'm going to go out and kill the bear today. You know, it's it's my job to go go do that. and You know, and she's like, all right, bring that bear home, and I'll skin it, and I'll make some clothes for the kids, and I'll, you know. Put some of the meat in the pan. Your wife would definitely do that. Oh, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah, maybe men should skin it, but my wife's very happy to do that. but I'm like, I killed it, so no. Anyway, so very resourceful. Yes. Yeah, that's right. She's very resourceful and I'm thankful. Amen. but So, yeah, we're called to lead. and You know, we image God, and you were talking about...

Speaker: those Those differences. We both image God, men and women, but we... We image God's... leadership. We image God's authority. We image His strength, His provision, His protection.

Speaker: Taking initiative, right? and women. Image God. primarily in different ways. You know, some of those ways might be what? um nurturing Yeah.

Speaker: there you go nurturing Um, you know, taking care of. Oh... The home, making sure the home is functioning as it should. I mean, the the the man's leading.

Speaker: but But she's... um She's keeping it. You know, as as the scripture says, she's. Making sure it's a healthy. ah Warm. Um,

Speaker: inviting environment. I'll just put it that way. Um, So again, these things should be... you know common knowledge within the church, but they're not. But.

Speaker: So men... Leaders, women nurturers, that's a big thing. Men. um They imaged God's headship. Mm hmm.

Speaker: headship in the sense of leadership, but also when you think of Adam Adam was created in the image of God and... and You and I have talked theologically about what that means. It means a lot. Doesn't just mean we have intelligence or we can.

Speaker: communicate or whatever. That means that... that you know Adam is ah is a prophet, priest, and king, and he's there to image. image forth God in the world. and and take dominion in that way.

Speaker: But... So... Adam is the representative. He's the federal head, the representative head of the the human race in that sense. And, of course, you you point out. a number of times that he failed. and Then we get Noah and we go through the lid and that's when we meet Jesus and all that.

Speaker: But in the same way, though. Um, were're As men, particularly redeemed men, but... Just in creation, men in general, we're supposed to...

Speaker: Um, We... we We're the federal head in that we have responsibility. for the wellbeing of those under our care. Does that make sense?

Speaker: So... um It's not saying... That, uh... if my you know If I had a... Five -year -old which I don't Um,

Speaker: You know, if the five -year -old falls down and skins his knee. it's It's not to say that i can't that my wife can't apply the the bandage because I'm responsible for the kid's well -being. No, it's it's it's in that general sense, as provider, as protector. Right. That that kind of thing.

Speaker: So. Yeah. Again. You jump in anytime you want. I just feel like I ramble on sometimes. Um, So... I used to get in with. ah i Let's see, I've got two daughters and a son.

Speaker: And now I've got two grandsons. But anyway. Of course, we've got a couple of son -in -laws. I just remember talking to my son about. you know what it means to be masculine, what it means to be a man. yeah And, of course, we have all these cultural.

Speaker: notions of what it means to be a man. um And. That's fine. i I think men, you know, we ought to be able to you know, chop wood or something. Yeah. ah We ought to be able to do certain things. and um You know, we do the heavy lifting as it were in our relationship.

Speaker: But at the same time, Um, being Being a godly man is is what we want. And so... um I think biblical masculinity. you know, that protection, there's a sacrificial dynamic there. Mm hmm. And I'm taking that back to Jesus. What did Paul say? You tell me, what did Paul say?

Speaker: about husbands. what What are they supposed to do? We're to love our wives as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her. Yeah. um yeah that was um i was gonna say the uh To take it back to garden imagery, our our marriage, our relationship. with with our wife, with our family.

Speaker: um is is essentially the same as as the garden itself. And God commanded Adam to cultivate. and to steward that garden. yep And so we're to steward.

Speaker: our homes as well yeah as men. And so, again, that's that's not. a picture of lording over. Right. You know, um and ruling with an iron fist kind of thing.

Speaker: um But we are. Uh, by scripture stewards of that. And so we're responsible. for caring for and... and ensuring that our home is is... functioning as a biblical home yeah that's right we're not tyrants no Love your wife. Right. Yeah.

Speaker: But neither are we passive. No. Right. So, yeah, and a lot of... Again, these these jokes that we have in our culture, I think when we're not necessarily thinking theologically.

Speaker: or even caricatures. Or even... the self -deprecation that I'm prone to. Just... That's just my personality for whatever reason. Some of it's... find some of its sin, some of its pride perhaps. And I got to examine my heart on that.

Speaker: But... you know, the the notion. In our culture, like you see a ah lot of television. situation comedies. Men are always portrayed as stupid. and Yeah, the dad is kind of the bumbling buffoon. Yeah.

Speaker: he's He's comic relief a lot of times because he's just... He's clueless. Yeah. About what's going on. Yeah. And the mom's the one that and knows everything. The mom's running the show. Yeah. Right. And the dad just is is the big bumbling idiot. Mm -hmm. And... um Yeah, that's, again, that's how our culture has chipped away.

Speaker: at the biblical image of what a family should look like yeah that's right i remember an episode ah These are things I used to watch late at night. I still do once in a while if I can't sleep. I usually read, but sometimes.

Speaker: i know I know somewhere, at least on... on you know whatever youtube tv i know somewhere there's an episode of everybody loves raymond And, um you know, Raymond.

Speaker: he'll get in trouble and he'll make excuses and all this and deborah's you know giving them the business or whatever. And. um She'll be trying to explain something. you know And he'll be like, well, you know this is who I am. I can't do this. I can't do that. And you know she rolls her eyes and all that.

Speaker: And, you know, we laugh at that. but that That's on a lot of these shows. You're right, the bumbling idiot. and Yeah, or he's almost portrayed as he's another kid that the mom has to take care of yeah and raise. Yes. and And that's not what we should be aspiring to be as godly men. Right. Yeah, it's so wrong.

Speaker: But a lot of time, And there's this passivity. Men do act like that. And and and then what I was referencing with the self -deprecation. Personally, i'll I'll be in so many conversations.

Speaker: um I'll be out. And. Maybe, ah I don't know, I'm trying to compliment my wife for one thing. So that's actually a good motive. i'm trying to build her up that's a good motive Trying to give her credit where it's due. I mean, all those things are true, but I'll say something like, you know, well, my wife.

Speaker: Maybe it has something to do with the finances. yeah my wife handles that i and i don't have a clue what's going on Well, I am falling into. It... you know i shouldn't really say that she does handle the finance like she pays the bills and all that and but i'm certainly well aware of the finances sure sure i'm just not um She's actually better than I at... ah keeping books. Because...

Speaker: Again, that's part of. taking care of... of The home? Here I am, you know. ah Trying to think. Okay, wool. how do we do this how do we do that how can we improve our position here Yeah, I'm just, I'll make something up here. Well, this is something I've talked about. but have never done or whatever well i shouldn't even i'm not even going to say it then because that'll just be weird but But I'm just, yeah, so just forget that. But. What I'm saying is.

Speaker: Let's say I'm trying to think, you know, should... Should we invest? Should we put our money in this particular? stock or this particular you know, fund. or Whatever.

Speaker: ah i'm I'm not worried about. you know, writing down in the check register. That's what. I don't even know if we still have check registers, see? Uh, We bank online now. But the point I'm making is we do write checks. and You do write down the check rate. See, I'm aware of that.

Speaker: Well, the point I'm trying to make is I... I have no problem complimenting my wife, but sometimes... I can't. I compliment her. Uh...

Speaker: in a way that... that that says that I'm influenced by the feminization of our culture. Because i somewhere, apparently, deep down, I want, if I'm talking to a woman in particular,

Speaker: I want her to understand. Not only that I love my wife, but... But that I'm somehow. Um, you know willing to say I don't know what I'm saying. Do you know what I'm saying? Well, yeah. i mean and She's competent.

Speaker: I'm not. it's kind of right right yeah yeah the tv show mentality like said uh right and and that's what it is is um We... It's a good thing to compliment your wife and ryan to to build her up. and um and and you know point out what she does well. um that She should be doing well. yeah um but were so influenced by... um how Our culture. has portrayed men. um and women.

Speaker: Yeah. Even in doing that, we can fall into the trap. of just making ourselves look like just the the passive bumbling idiot that just, you know.

Speaker: That just... goes to work every day and has no clue what's going on at the home right um you know we do believe that there are different roles for men and women. Sure. And that... uh Both men and women should take responsibility for those roles. yes but that there should also be clear communication yeah that's right and so ah in In your example of the finances.

Speaker: Um, Yes, it's good that she handles that well, but there's also the communication that that takes place. Yeah. um And so, again, you're not. completely unaware right you may not be aware of every single transaction that takes place every day that's right um but but Yeah.

Speaker: You are. in enough communication with your wife. um the both of you are, that that you know. what the affairs of your house are like um financially for example yeah um to where you do know what's going on. nothing you know nothing Nothing's going to completely just catch you off guard and be surprised by something. Right. um but at the same time you trust her because of your communication that's right um And because, you know, again, um that's.

Speaker: It's kind of one of the things that Proverbs 31 describes yeah with with a godly woman, right? is Yeah. she She handles the affairs. Yeah. Financially even. That's right. That's part of taking care of it. So, yeah.

Speaker: Um, But it's, so it's both. it's it's There is that responsibility. if We want to entrust one another. with those roles that we've been given. yeah um But. as As.

Speaker: compliments of one another. ah there is that clear communication. Yeah. Because we are, again, to go back to, we're creating the image of God, but male and female. are incomplete.

Speaker: images of God. So we're not fully representative of God. God doesn't need anyone, right? He's fully self -sufficient. He doesn't need anyone else's help. But.

Speaker: we're We're not that. So we're we're an image of God, but we're not a complete representation of him. And so we do need each other. it's a compliment one another.

Speaker: Um, And so. the roles and the communication are important. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That Proverbs 31 woman, that's an interesting... texted And then I didn't look at it.

Speaker: you know, in preparation for today. and it's been a while since I've looked at it, so I don't remember all the details. And and i if I were going to teach on it, I would definitely refresh myself of the historical.

Speaker: cultural dynamics going on there as well. But one of the things I'll i'll say. This woman... took care of her family. She took care of her husband. He was known in the gate. Right. So.

Speaker: Two things. One. Um, the Men and women are called to build a life together, husband and wife. Right. And. Husband provides that leadership.

Speaker: The woman. AIDS in that, and I know been in our culture. to say that she's a helper. Women don't like that, but that's what the Bible says. She's a helper, so we shouldn't be embarrassed by that.

Speaker: God's also our help. in our very present help in time of trouble. Same word. So that's okay. But we we build a life together, you know, utilizing our different roles.

Speaker: Um, And so. um Her children are well cared for, etc. Um... But as you said... ah One of the things it says in there, she considers a field and buys it.

Speaker: All right. Well, you know, on the one hand. What's that all about? Is it a real estate investment? um Did she buy this field because it's a good place? ah to plant some...

Speaker: yeah You know, whatever they planted, you know, I don't know, corn. Probably not corn. Wheat. How about wheat? Anyway. Um, And she's got enough. money to allocate you know that she can Do that as part of. so I...

Speaker: I'll give you ah A quick story. ah Recently I was talking about borrowing just a little bit of money. basically juggling some finances here, barring it for a very short time.

Speaker: until a little bit of other money came in where I could just pay that off. Mace, get on that. 0 % interest, you know. It's just one of those juggling things. And I was talking to somebody about it.

Speaker: And my wife... was passing through, and she... Heard? A snippet of the conversation. And she asked me later. I mean, she wasn't upset. She just asked me because.

Speaker: I mean, if she was upset, she'd have stopped. yeah Hey, what are you up to? Yeah. It's but, um, She thought I was talking about. like borrowing something like a hundred and $67 ,000.

Speaker: and And I'd already made the decision. Well, number one, I would never write make ah that kind of a decision without talking with my wife. and and ah I don't know what other folk would think. Well, don't you have that authority?

Speaker: well Well, yeah, it's not because you need permission from your wife. But it's because you guys, as you said already, are building a life together. Yes. And so as partners yes in your home, you would make that decision together. That's right. we we talk it out with your collective wisdom with our collective wisdom that's part of the reason God's given us to one another. We both have wisdom. and and Sometimes my wife...

Speaker: points out things that I hadn't thought about. And that that doesn't mean I'm being passive. We're having a dialogue. Sometimes I point out things she hasn't thought about. We're trained differently. We think differently. We're coming to that, by the way. We're still talking about design, but we're just. Somehow we...

Speaker: Listen, what we do we just have a conversation. So that's where these things lead. um Which is good. and why we'll probably have a part two. but okay But... um So, no, i would I would never do that.

Speaker: Um, Well, ah by the same token, she would never do that either without talking to me. And so I think this Proverbs 31 woman, you know, You got to be real careful when you're doing biblical interpretation, biblical exegesis, that you just don't make it.

Speaker: say something that it doesn't and like a lot of feminists today. Well, look at Deborah. Well, Deborah's an exception. She's not the rule. Deborah's a judgment on Israel. I mean, she she she was effective. God raised her up. There's no doubt about that. But but the men should have been doing, and and they weren't.

Speaker: And so that's a whole different subject. But I would imagine... This woman considering a field and buying it that would be akin to my wife as we've talked about okay well we're going in this direction or that direction Okay, well, I've got X number of dollars and...

Speaker: I'm going to try to find a good deal on. what it Maybe it is a little investment. Or maybe it's a... I don't know, maybe it's a car, you know? i As long as it's in the budget, pick the one you want. you know Right.

Speaker: I need it. I'm just saying. hit Excuse me, so... We got to be real careful. That we don't swing Out of... biblical bounds.

Speaker: Either way. Either way. I think you'd agree with that. Yeah. um and and And I would even say, and you may not agree with this, but let's it I don't. i don't i don't know that there's necessarily a list of these are the duties that a man should have in a christian home right these are the duties that a woman should have in the christian home right We're not saying that.

Speaker: Men can't pay the bills. i put Right. um Right. You know. Lots of men do. Yeah. ones of Or, you know, even. you know, to go a little further down the line or bring it down, and you know, that that men can't cook.

Speaker: or things like that, or that men... Don't help with the chores around the home. Sure. Help keep the home clean. Sure. you know Again, we're helping one another. in those things. um But there is a mindset that's involved. yeah You know, and so... um And part of that is is the way that we're designed.

Speaker: And so... um Even if you were to... Pay the bill or buy the thing. or or cook the dinner or whatever it is. your wife's mindset of being one who is is taking care of the home, who's nurturing the home.

Speaker: is going to play a role. in that as well. And so. it It doesn't mean that that these are the things that only men should do and these are the things that only women should do within the context of the home. yeah but there is gonna There is still that way of thinking that.

Speaker: Uh... The way that the man is designed and then what he's called to and the way that the woman's design what she's called to thinking rightly about that and thinking biblically about that role that you've been given by God.

Speaker: will affect how then you work together in the home to accomplish everything that needs to be accomplished. That's right. and And I think too often we we we don't. talk about these things in light of the historical context from when certain scriptures were written. Because life was very different then than it is in our context.

Speaker: And I don't think we think about other contexts, but you think. um Agrarian America in the 1700s, 1800s. before the Industrial Revolution.

Speaker: Um, maybe Maybe a man and a woman. They own a farm. That's what they do. Well, they're they're they're working together. And, you know, cows the cows have got to be milked.

Speaker: The field's got to be. Cloud. And I'm sure the men did most of the plowing and maybe the women did most of the milking, but I can imagine if mom's got four kids. Dad's doing the milking. I'm just saying.

Speaker: you know, And both were hard labor, you do you know, and because I think I think there can also be this tendency to. Um, You know, where if we if we have almost this mindset of.

Speaker: the women are the ones that's got to do all the chores and the men go off to work right you know, Well, is the labor. Equal. Yeah. Right. um And, and then also Um,

Speaker: Because I think a lot of this and and our ultimate discussion that we're eventually going to get to. It is. Is driven by, and you've mentioned the word a couple times already, but feminism. Yeah. Um, because there.

Speaker: feminism. uh began as a rejection of traditional little female roles. um in In the sense that... A lot of these things that we've already mentioned of of being the nurturer. and the carer of the home.

Speaker: has been demeaned to where it's almost viewed as. Lesser than what the men. are supposed to do or get to do. um And so...

Speaker: It's... The rejection of that, it's... It's it's it's. Going back to Eden again. Yeah. It's... it's It's looking at that fruit over there and it's desirable. And it's the thing I can't have. And that's what I want. Yeah. um And it's.

Speaker: is this rejection of of what you've been given. Yeah. as your role and say well i want that Yeah. And and this over here isn't as isn't good enough. Right. um But.

Speaker: you know the the things that women are called to. are good and important and and and their work. Yeah. um and But the things that men are called to are good and important and their work. That's right. um and and And we're wanting.

Speaker: to work together, you know, we're talking about the biological. ah differences. um We've touched on that just a little bit. We're going to get to that a little more later. but yeah Um,

Speaker: simply the fact and you know we've talked about you know physical strength and and and Those kind of things, and I don't know if we've mentioned this, but I think the article did, you know, pain tolerance and those kind of things. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Speaker: And that's true, but at the same time, think about... the pain of childbirth oh my goodness um and and and what man wants to sign up for that yeah no thank you right um and um So...

Speaker: are there Are there certain... instances of physical pain. that a man might endure. Better than a woman? Yes. Bye. On the flip side, yeah there there are intense physical pains there that women can endure that men can't. yeah Why? Because we're designed that way. yeah um A man's body isn't designed to be able to bear children. Exactly.

Speaker: um And a woman's is. yeah And there are there are literal biological scientific differences in the way that women are made. Um, beyond just the birth canal itself right right that allow them to be able that's right to to hand physically handle that role yeah that men physically can't. Yeah, no, exactly right.

Speaker: you're You're answering the question, what is a woman? Mhm. What is a man? Right. um What if we, you tell me. um We can talk about.

Speaker: Um, Some other things, maybe another time that maybe we wanted to touch on, but in our roundabout way, we didn't get to them yet. let's Maybe cut to that. that piece that we came across, that article that we came across, because...

Speaker: I think it's good. it's goingnna support what we're saying, but like as you say, we don't need it. Our authority is Scripture, right and it's always been and always will be. Which I think is why we got bogged down for half an hour.

Speaker: Talking you about. yeah biblical roles. That's right. That's right. And biblical design. and I do want to talk more about it, yeah but maybe maybe another time. So when we say design, we're not talking about...

Speaker: you know, evolutionary traits or anything like that. We're we're talking about... Hmm. What? um What God has... has created us to be. And. ah You know, today in today's culture, they want to make a distinction between sex and gender.

Speaker: Well, we want to say they're related. and sex is immutable i'm going back to you're talking about women are designed to give birth. So the idea that Men can give. Birtherkin.

Speaker: have some kind of surgery, yada, yada. I don't want to go down that road to to alter their sex. um You can't, you know, because, well, I... Matt. my gender to this man my gender tells me i'm a woman so i'm going to alter my sex well First off.

Speaker: Gender and and sex are connected. you're You're not a woman. You're mistaken. And you can't ever be a woman. You're going to be a man even if you mutilate yourself. um yeah I'll leave it there. and so Mm.

Speaker: There's also... A unity of body and soul, which I'd like to talk about further sometime. Not now. But. As a segue... just to sort of Have a little bit of.

Speaker: Science. agreeing with what we're saying. Yeah. Like I said, we don't need it for support. but Excuse me. So sorry. But there's some agreement.

Speaker: this This piece is called Sex Differences, Perspectives. From biology. medicine and psychiatry. Um, Excuse me. It was written by.

Speaker: Aaron. ah Curiati, he's an MD. uh doctor Of course. Um, and I think he's in a chapter. or someone I don't know if it's someone else's chapter. I didn't look this up.

Speaker: or his chapter, In a book. Men and women in the order of creation. Edited by Deborah Savage. Um, But basically...

Speaker: They're arguing that. They're arguing what we just said. that men and women ah Or designed. um to be different.

Speaker: And whether or not they're appealing to God, I haven't read the book. Maybe they do, maybe they don't, but in in the particular piece we're talking about, they're appealing not to God, but to... Just what?

Speaker: What science? medicine and psychiatry tell us right yeah because um in the in the context of this article Um, there's There is no mention of God.

Speaker: um, or Fate. or religion or the bible They are strictly coming at it from a medical, biological... ah perspective.

Speaker: um Which, again... We don't need that to validate what we're saying, but I think it is interesting. to note that because so often Our argument may just be dismissed as a religious argument right or a faith -based argument. Right. um but here we have someone who is making no faith claim whatsoever

Speaker: And strictly based on medicine and science, um which is why we do believe in science. Yeah. Because we do believe that science can reveal. the the general revelation of truth and so about the universe that God's created.

Speaker: Um, And we just believe that the special revelation of God's word. helps explain that general revelation that we find. Yes. um but We still can find truth. Hmm? In science Yeah We just believe that we need. scripture to understand. that That's right. Yeah.

Speaker: Well, and even, and we've said this many times, the scientific method and scientific investigation, that's all rooted in a Christian worldview. Believing that the creation itself has order. and design. It's not a random chance accident. Right. and so When we're engaging in science and the scientific method, not only do we affirm the uniformity of nature.

Speaker: ah But we we affirm God created it that way. A logical mind is behind that uniformity. And we are investigating. You mentioned general revelation. We're investigating that general revelation.

Speaker: that God has made available to all all people in all places. um It's not a saving revelation. That's where sin suppresses the truth. But, uh... Any scientific discovery, whether you're a Christian or not.

Speaker: um you' You've discovered. God's revelation of himself, and you need the special revelation. to To know, oh, right this is God revealing himself. What does this actually mean? Yeah. Yeah, that's what you're saying. yeah You know, I think it's interesting because obviously this issue that we're discussing today.

Speaker: is is highly politicized. Mm -hmm. And so. ah people of a certain political persuasion. Would call. Yeah. our political persuasion, anti -science, right? Oh, yeah. um and And mostly...

Speaker: that that That comes back to um our our our belief on the origin of the universe and creation versus evolution. Yeah. And um again, we would say that evolution is nowhere close to settled science.

Speaker: Um, and uh, We've already. had an episode on that that actually scientifically creation makes more sense. Oh yeah. But. Um, we can be accused of being anti -science. And yet in an issue like this.

Speaker: and that is highly politically charged. Um, The other side seems to ignore scientific evidence. yes How's that? for a turn of events. But anyway.

Speaker: So one of the first things that they point out is that. um And we again, we're talking about sex differences. um Men, women. Uh, are are not confined.

Speaker: to just the reproductive organs. Because, I mean, certain things... Anybody can... can look at and say, yeah, men and women are different. okay they're They're created different. you You highlighted some of that.

Speaker: Um, But, you know, they highlight or point out that the sex differences goes all the way down to the molecular level tissues. Um, you know, cells.

Speaker: there's there's There's a number of differences between men and women. And they come to... say that the biggest difference, and this is interesting in light of Certain things within the.

Speaker: political sphere that are being discussed and theological sphere. The biggest Airstream men and women. comes down to the brain. And when they say the brain, I mean, they're going to talk about psychology. or so Yeah.

Speaker: how women think versus how men think but But here they're talking about the physical brain and the implications of that. Yeah, the chemistry and the synapses of the brain and how it's.

Speaker: that's right actually wired that's right So you've got... um Is they, again... They're We're going to say some things that... that Basically a repetition of what you and I have already said. But it's not because we were quoting the article.

Speaker: That's because the article is, the science is, like you say. confirming what what we already believe. But um when you think about the brain, Um, there There are differences between men and women that are physical. We know that. There are differences that are psychological.

Speaker: Um, ah The brain influences. um certain behavioral dynamics. cognitive dynamics, how we process information.

Speaker: Um, I'm just reading down a little bit of a list here. uh emotional functioning and And one of the things that they point out is that these differences are measurable. Mm hmm.

Speaker: ah which Which, you know, it's not just making something up. that There are measurable differences in the way that men and women experience emotion. it's It's not that men and women both can't cry.

Speaker: But it's that if if you think about it, there's there's a spectrum on. how we experience different. emotions. It's not just... crying or not crying. I'm just saying. in in different ways.

Speaker: um How we... how we experience things that we see. how we experience things that we hear. I'm saying they're measurable cognitive differences.

Speaker: which is interesting to me. Um. perception There's a difference in the way that men and women perceive faces. Um,

Speaker: I mean... There's a lot of time I'll... and And I guess this this happens the same way, but I'll ask my wife, she'll have a look on her face and I'll say, are you such and such? No way. Well, and then she can ask me, are you such and such? No way. Well, that's because.

Speaker: Yeah, we think, well, we just misread it. Well, that's true. But there's a different, we we perceive things differently in general terms. So faces. You mentioned pain perception.

Speaker: Um, Navigation. I mean... Unbelievable to me. um Our neurotransmitter levels are different. um When we're under stress, the hormones in our bodies do different things.

Speaker: um Obviously, we have different. amounts of different hormones. We we we know that. One of the things that was interesting to me. is that men and women are prone to different diseases. It's not that we both can't have cancer. We both can't have a heart attack.

Speaker: But. There are different manifestations in there. of certain diseases and then there are different diseases altogether. And then generally we... And there are... ah medical. conditions that can arise.

Speaker: Out of either a man or a woman being deficient. in the hormone that. is that makes them male or makes them female. yeah you know there There are all kinds of things linked to men who have low testosterone. yeah um and But there's not.

Speaker: problems with men who have low estrogen. Right. right you know As far as I know, I mean, I'm not a doctor. Right, yeah. But I've never heard, I guess anecdotally speaking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. of of a man being prescribed that he needs needs more estrogen right because of a medical problem he may be experiencing.

Speaker: um But a doctor may prescribe more testosterone. Same thing with a woman. um If her testosterone levels are too high, it can cause medical complications that need to be addressed. Yeah. um And so. These things are important. It's not just about a gender expression.

Speaker: um this is actually medically important. Yes. um And, you know, I've... i've heard or seen Multiple. reports from from doctors.

Speaker: Who, who have said it's vitally important that I know if I'm treating a male or a female oh yeah because of how I may treat them, what I may prescribe medically to them. That's right. Um, because.

Speaker: It can have, as we've already mentioned, totally different effects on a man versus a woman. That's right. that's right Because of chemistry and because of biology. Yeah, 100%. So, again, this just highlights the the binary, which our culture doesn't believe in anymore. In fact, they think that's anathema, but nevertheless. so Science says otherwise. The Bible says otherwise.

Speaker: Um, Men and women respond differently to certain... Medical treatments, as you're highlighting there with... ah you know, what you you just said. But the thing that they point out is that these things are present.

Speaker: from birth. um they're They're not... to They're not socially constructed, right and and they persist throughout life. Um...

Speaker: that you One of the things that... um Uh -huh. the the What's the word? The gender, the gender ideologues of our culture.

Speaker: You know, the transgender ideologues will put it that way. you know They'll say, well, I mean, our whole culture, egalitarianism first and then transgenderism would, I guess, in some sense, would be a subset of that. and We're interchangeable.

Speaker: Men and women. interchangeable in terms of function in terms of role in terms of biology Everything. Um, which is... obviously biologically it's ludicrous. It was ludicrous. on on all counts but i'm saying You would think even even an unbeliever could...

Speaker: You know, you've got to have there's a spiritual dynamic going on. That's a side issue. That's for another broadcast. But when you say. i don't ah a woman is somebody who thinks she's a woman Well, that's a spiritual dynamic going on there. But anyway.

Speaker: Um. One of the things they always bring up, though, is, well, what about... you know, We'll just use the term intersex. you know What about some of these anomalies? Yo. hermaphrodite or whatever.

Speaker: Well, they address that in in the article, in the piece. Um, what What they point out is that sex traits... Um,

Speaker: It's a bell curve. So... you know, everybody knows what a bell curve is you start here and you go up you know and then and then you go down and And so... on either side of that bell curve.

Speaker: You know, let's just say. You know. You good? Mask it. Male traits. female traits. And. um if you're at either end of the spectrum If you're you're male, you you may have a little bit more.

Speaker: you You may... huh look a little more feminine than the average male. Or a woman you may look a little more masculine than the average man Mm hmm. But you're still a woman.

Speaker: Just because you have certain... traits that would be a little more masculine they're on the they're on the bell curve just Just because this man looks a little less than masculine. He's still on the bell curve.

Speaker: And there's a lot of overlap. All right. and so What they're addressing is the issue of... Of, uh... Intrasax. Um,

Speaker: I don't I'm not I'm again I'm not a scientist and I don't I don't I don't want to get too far into it but just just want to wade into that a little bit. and make make the point that they make. But they do highlight that one of the mistakes.

Speaker: that gender ideology makes is is the notion that, ah again, a man... And I've already said it, but I just want to say it in their words. The notion that a man...

Speaker: with some characteristically feminine traits or interests is really a woman. That's what they would say. So this man. Looks a little less masculine or he's interested in, you know.

Speaker: Whatever. He's a woman. trapped in a man's body or whatever. And and they and they say, no. That's not the case. he's just on the tail end of the of the bell curve and basically in their words he's simply a man Um,

Speaker: at the tail end of this normally distributed bell curve. So. Maybe a boy who likes ballet. Versus... Uh, a girl who likes football.

Speaker: That. it it's on the bell curve it doesn't mean that she's a man and he's a woman so that's the first thing All right. Um, So...

Speaker: When biologists, and you know this, you know Biologists, i guess I guess if they were being interviewed, depending upon their political persuasion, they might have trouble. But biologists who are doing their their work.

Speaker: They don't have any problem answering the question that Matt Walsh asked. What is a woman? Uh, They make a distinction between men and women. Um,

Speaker: based on um reproduction. Um, They don't. distinguish. Uh... you know, between men and women or call men women or women men or vice versa. They don't do that.

Speaker: Based on behavioral traits. Right. They base it on. biology. if that makes sense. So... um The intersex thing that we were talking about.

Speaker: they they they They have a lot of discussion in the article. Again, I'm not going to get into all the. All the details, all the science. And one of the key points there too is...

Speaker: um, you know, those that are that are born With these anomalies. Yes. For example. that They are just that. It's an anomaly.

Speaker: um They point out that it's less than 1 % of the population. um has this type of condition. And... So... These are medical anomalies. that's right They're not part of the norm. that's right um But it's interesting that...

Speaker: that That statistic has stayed. fairly flat. Mhm. throughout history. Yeah. um But what we see with. Jenner. gender identity is spiked massively yes and it it is in no way correlated with...

Speaker: um with the medical anomalies that we see. thats right So those that can't be an argument. for for the gender. identity crisis that we have.

Speaker: going on right now right um and i think it's too it's interesting too Cause you know, we're talking about certain traits. um You had mentioned ballet, football interests. you know things that we like or are drawn to.

Speaker: Um, You know, when I was younger, if he if we had a girl that liked to play in the dirt and and and do sports and everything, she was a tomboy. Right. She was still a girl, right?

Speaker: um But it's interesting that, you know, like I said before, a lot of this is born out of the rejection of traditional. gender roles. as a social construct.

Speaker: But in all reality... When we now go into a transgender. Where we say that you can change your gender. then in reality, are we not leaning into...

Speaker: those norms. Because we're telling a boy. Who likes? just use the term girly thing that means you must be a girl yeah well then aren't you aren't you leaning into the fact that these things are more feminine? Yeah.

Speaker: Interesting. But but supposedly we're we're supposed to be rejecting those cultural norms, right? there's a Yeah, there's a presuppositional ah contradiction there, right as always, when you don't presuppose the reality of God. Yeah.

Speaker: So that's good. That's good. I'll have to remember that for my... my tool belt. But uh... Yeah, I mean... they you know, Males, they they point this out.

Speaker: Males have... um X Y chromosomes. Um. Females have XX. chromosomes And... um So you may have someone.

Speaker: So a male. He may have... you know, XXY or something like that. if If that's the case, it's an anomaly, as you were saying a minute ago. Extra chromosome. But he's still male. Right. Because he's got the Y. And if it's XXX or whatever, I mean i don't i don't know what what possibilities there are. Well, that's that's still a female. so Yeah, they're that's what they're talking about. so Anyway. um

Speaker: that That's that their disorders, their anomalies, e etc. And of course, these these realities are ignored by... The ideologues, the gender theory. Those who are pushing. you know, contemporary gender theory. in our culture.

Speaker: Um, So... They... They... They flat out say. that sex and gender really cannot be separated. And it is interesting that...

Speaker: Heh. to say To say that the boy who likes girly things, well, you must be a girl. It's a total contradiction of what they're trying to say. Right. It's just, yeah.

Speaker: But anyway. Um. So they can't be separated. ah You mentioned this to me. earlier. I had not seen the Matt Walsh.

Speaker: I'm probably the only conservative on the planet. he hasn't seen it i wanted to see it you and i talked about it at length when it came out But his whatever you call it, video ah yeah document documentary, What is a Woman? or Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker: Um, He mentioned... Someone, that this article mentioned. What was his name? David Reimer. David Reimer. Yeah. Right. um and then this was a this was a a baby boy yeah that was born and um went to medically. um have a circumcision. And the... the the process went wrong.

Speaker: right and um his anatomy was damaged yeah um And so this doctor. came along his name was um John, I couldn't remember his first name. John Money. yeah From Johns Hopkins, no less. Yeah. um and And his recommendation.

Speaker: to the parents was that they go ahead and and and do surgery on this boy to... make him look like a girl. um ah Completely physically.

Speaker: um and then raise him as a girl from the time he was a baby. Right. um And then, ironically enough... ah This child had a twin brother, yep identical twin brother, ye that they raised as a boy, who didn't change anything about him.

Speaker: um and And this doctor. Um, was basically using it as an experiment. um he was using He was using a real human child.

Speaker: as As a science experiment. Yeah. to see how it would turn out. and Tragically, we know how it turned out. It turned out horribly yeah for for this young man. um Yeah, he wanted to prove his theories. and And listen, scientists have done that throughout the ages. Yes. Stuff we don't even know about. Yes. Not to interrupt you. No, go ahead.

Speaker: um And it's it's a tragic thing. but um Yeah, it went wrong. and um ah he he i wanted I just wanted to point this out. I didn't want to interrupt because I want you to finish the story.

Speaker: But he, the doctor, said publicly, oh, everything's great. Yeah, he lied. right That wasn't the case. Yeah. So we've never had a doctor lie to the public before. right Um,

Speaker: That's going to take us down a whole rabbit trail we don't want to go down. But anyway. Well, we just let that out of the bag. Yeah, there it is. I'm 100 % agreement. But no, he he he really leaned into his theory on gender identity being a social construct. construct Yeah, yeah. um And that it it was not at all rooted in biology. Right. um or Or physical traits. Right. um that it was 100%.

Speaker: ah the nurture. yeah versus nature that it was that gender identities were created by society Right. and So his theory was that, well.

Speaker: You can just raise your son as a daughter and and everything will be fine. And again, like you said. he He repeatedly, publicly would say that everything was fine. But later what we see is the entire family fell apart.

Speaker: um so And and that's that's, I think, something that... isn't considered and talked about enough. is... Um, When. When we, when we.

Speaker: Oh wow. these young people to have these surgeries. um to to change their bodies. to match a gender identity that they want to identify with.

Speaker: Not only can that have drastic and horrible and irreversible effects. on that one person, but... people around it can around them can be...

Speaker: ah greatly affected yeah well yeah tragically um the ah the mom battled with depression yeah believe it was and the dad um ah became an alcoholic yeah um and and obviously dealt with depression and and pretty much just completely disengaged himself from the family. yeah um the The brother...

Speaker: ah dealt with his own depression because he felt neglected. and and Yeah. because there was so much focus put on ah his his brother being his sister, yeah you know, and and and raising her as a girl that he was essentially, he essentially felt neglected yeah because all they cared about was this science experiment right that was going on.

Speaker: And then ultimately. um the the young man himself, David. Um, He... He rejected it early on. Right. He said that as early as the age of two, they would put him in dresses. Yeah. And he would rip the dresses off and right and be mad about it. Right. He had no idea what was going on. He just didn't like dresses. Something wasn't right. Right. You know, he got and he could tell even at the age of two. um And so he would he would push back against.

Speaker: um being a woman. And. um eventually ah And that was the other thing is that this doctor, Dr. Money. and Again. ironic yeah that then the last name there Because, again, not to get too far down a rabbit trail or i anything, but.

Speaker: um I think so much of of what's taking place with these surgeries and and things that are taking place now. Money is the root of it. That's right. um It's an industry. yeah It is. It is. Yeah, but. um He actually advised the parents not to tell.

Speaker: young David, the truth, right? for a long time what actually happened to him yeah and and so um he's He's dealing with... you know I know something's not right. yeah they won't tell him no and then finally well before you get to the punchline i I find it interesting, and I don't mean... in ah in a detached sort of way. I feel terrible for these folk.

Speaker: This is years ago now, and it's tragic. But in in terms of what we're saying, you know, you were talking about how he'd rip the dresses off. Um, Uh... David, who they called Brenda. Right. You know, right raise him in as a girl.

Speaker: He refused to play with dolls? Um. Eh? He would beat up. Yeah, the article says her brother, but he beat up his brother. yeah Uh huh. Um, He would. steal his toy cars, want to play with his you know guns, male -oriented toys.

Speaker: He was teased in school because he had all these masculine. treats. He walked like a boy. you know, taught like a boy, acted like a boy in a lot of things. Um, he He liked boy things and not girl things.

Speaker: And. he actually literally complained to his parents and his school teachers that he felt like a boy And that's unfortunately when... you know, what you were saying. And again, I didn't mean to interrupt. No, no, you're good.

Speaker: Money advised them. Yeah, yeah. you know Don't tell. And they they followed the doctor's orders in that case. yeah um And it just continued to get worse. Yeah. um And and the the mother attempted suicide, I believe. I can't remember if.

Speaker: She was right with guilt. If young David had already at that point and i'm not sure as a young person. um But. He battled so much depression and anger and everything else, and they had him seeing a counselor. And and this counselor, psychologist, psychiatrist, whatever it was.

Speaker: Um... eventually convinced the parents that they needed to tell him the truth yeah of what had happened to him. and And once he realized it, he says himself, it's like all the pieces finally fit together, finally understood.

Speaker: Why? you know, why nothing made sense to me. Right. Um, and, and so again, then there's still so much anger. I've been literally lied to my entire life. Yeah. I think it was 14 at that point. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker: um And so he. begins to, I guess you would say transition. back into identifying as a male. um and eventually even got married. Yep.

Speaker: but Never never was able to get over what had been done to him right and tragically In the end, he did end up taking his own life because... of the depression that he Could not win a battle. of Yeah, unbelievable. so ah A mom.

Speaker: who Who... She committed suicide, right? uh i don't remember it says she attempted suicide attempted suicide the dad who's an alcoholic ah The brother wasn't doing well, and and now David himself.

Speaker: Killed himself. It's just, it was 38. It's just. Anyway, it's just unbelievable. Um, Anyway, they point out in in the article that there have been studies on other children.

Speaker: same kind of isolated case right yes i just a one -off it's just a very um I guess public. um And tragic.

Speaker: case but there's many, many more like it yeah that that have been studied. Yeah. um and And they all have the same outcome, similar outcomes. Yeah, similar outcomes. just lots of Lots of trouble, unfortunately. so Again, they're just drawing more and more.

Speaker: You know, they've they've looked at the biology and now they're looking at. Um, what happens when you don't take biology into account. Um.

Speaker: Because you maybe you you've got some kind of reproductive anomaly. or an accident or whatever where these children are raised and you know They're either male or female, but you raise them as the other.

Speaker: For... like You know, again, in his case, I guess it was an aesthetic dynamic and initially, you know, when he was. A baby. Right. Um. But their whole point is.

Speaker: Gender is not arbitrarily assigned. Gender is tied to your sex. um in in That's That's just the way it is. um They make this statement, a biological male or female.

Speaker: will typically not come to identify as the opposite sex after being altered physically. and immersed into the corresponding gender -typical environment. So...

Speaker: you know I was reminded of. um You know, I We all grew up liking music. Mm hmm. um I was born in early 60s, and so I like a lot of old music. I like all music.

Speaker: But I used to listen to The Who. And I don't know what year this came out, but I think it was in the late 60s. But ah you may be for familiar with the song, you may not, but they they did a song called I'm a Boy. You heard this one?

Speaker: I mean, I know you've heard of. Yeah. you know what What is it, Bob O 'Reilly? Yeah, yeah. if We could name like 15 of them. But no, Ed, when I'm a boy. And and this is this is the same thing.

Speaker: He said, I feel like a boy. I know I'm a boy, but my mama tells me different, and she put him in dresses, and he wants to rip them off. ah She wants him to play with the girls. He doesn't want to. He wants to kick a football. He wants to get dirty. He wants to cut himself and see his own blood. Not not like cutting. he He wants to experience boy things. Yeah.

Speaker: And the kid's going crazy. and He keeps saying, I'm a boy, I'm a boy, I'm a boy. That's that's the song. it's It's an angry song. It's amazing. and Um... Yeah, that's that's the tragic case there. It's interesting, a rock and roll band.

Speaker: Would... Who knows why they wrote this song? ah yeah Maybe they heard about this. kid I don't know. The timing doesn't seem right. but Right. Seems like they wrote the song before all this came out because he was born in...

Speaker: I think David Reimer was born in 1965, and he was 14 before. The truth came out, so that would have been like 1979 or something like that. Well, and the importance of a story like David Reimer. is that it's... completely flies in the face of what we are being told yeah by the proponents of.

Speaker: ah this transitioning and in in gender reassignment surgeries. um, is that ah These young people who are dealing with what they call gender dysphoria, where they feel like they are the wrong gender.

Speaker: Uh, they're. inside the wrong body or whatever and so they need to alter their biology. Um, where we are told That's.

Speaker: If we don't do this, then then... These young people are going to be. So depressed. And so... um you know, they're just going to spiral so much and and they're they're they're going to kill themselves.

Speaker: Um, But... this is This is a case where... Um, someone did have their biology altered not by choice right um didn't even know you know it was too young to even remember it happening yeah um But...

Speaker: You can't... You can't. alter biology. and they're not me. consequences that come after. and And one of the things that they point out in their article.

Speaker: is that... Um, by ah by a vast majority. ah these young people that are going through these surgeries. they actually come out on the other side more depressed, yeah more suicidal. yeah um if If it does anything, it makes the matter even worse. Yeah, that's right. It doesn't help anything. That's right.

Speaker: Yeah. and And you mentioned that you know the term gender dysphoria. That's this the term going around today. One of the things that that these doctors, these scientists point out.

Speaker: and And we agree wholeheartedly. is that that folk who who are struggling. in this area for whatever the reason. Um, you know They need care. Right.

Speaker: They need compassion. And I'm going to say this and you're going to say this, but but the scientist said this too, but they need the right kind of care. Right. We all agree on that. They need care that helps them. Yeah, we're not we're not saying that if if a boy...

Speaker: says i feel like a girl we just say no you're a boy yeah stop it Right. You know. Yeah. um That's, we we do. Want to care for them and help them ah understand the way they were made and yeah how to deal with whatever feelings they're struggling with and everything.

Speaker: um You know, I think it's. Uh, you know They point out in the article, um you know we call this gender dysphoria, which is this feeling that... I am the wrong gender, you know, and and i'm ah I'm a boy trapped inside of a girl's body or I'm a girl trapped inside of a boy's body or or whatever.

Speaker: and And I need to. ah change so that it might my my felt identity. matches my physical appearance. Um... it's It's similar to those who struggle with body dysmorphia.

Speaker: Oh, yeah. um and and And eating disorders, anorexia, bulimia, those types of things. Um... and And I think it's very interesting because... if If we were talking about a different type of...

Speaker: dysphoria, dysmorphia, I mean... yeah We're talking about the same type of term here, right? Right. the The person who's struggling with the eating disorder, and again, I say this with the utmost compassion here. I'm not trying to make light of anything. no But the person who is dealing with a body dysmorphia or eating disorder. a disorder feels that they are overweight and they are obese and their their their body is grotesque to them.

Speaker: And. They... the the only solution that they can think of. is that they need to starve themselves or or whatever. and um They're so consumed by that thought that in. in ultimately it ends up costing so many of these mostly young girls, but yeah young people's lives yeah when they go down that roll.

Speaker: And. It's interesting that I don't think you would find any. medical professional, any serious person who would say that the compassionate thing to do with that person is to agree with them and say yes you are overweight you need to stop eating Yeah.

Speaker: um that would That would be the absolute worst thing in the world that you could tell them. um And so I think it's very interesting. that. It seems common sense that that is not how you would treat someone who has.

Speaker: That type of dysmorphia. Right. But for a gender dysphoria. Yeah. that that They would argue that the compassionate thing to do is to say, well, yes, you really are a girl. And we need to... We need to...

Speaker: change your body so that it matches that. yeah I don't understand why there's a disconnect. Yeah, and another disconnect, another contradiction. Which again, when you get outside of absolute truth, that's what happens.

Speaker: And with very tragic consequences. Absolutely. yeah And. um So, yeah, compassion, the right kind of care. um Help them, and and it may take a long time. um And some of them may never, you know. Get the... the ah Submit to the help or agree with the help, whatever the case may be. But of course, we believe the gospel would be behind it. um But even even unbelievers.

Speaker: Uh, like. And again, i these scientists, i I don't know if they're Christians or not. But. um You know, we know that There are unbelievers out there who would agree.

Speaker: with what these folk are saying. and And they would want to give care. the that They would start with that compassion. but they would tell the truth. and their um what's the word i'm looking for their counseling and or Yeah, they're counseling.

Speaker: plan may look a little bit different than our plan. There there would be a lot of overlap. There's no doubt about that. But obviously we'd bring. the gospel in on that. but um Anyway, you mentioned a minute ago.

Speaker: Um... the The gender dysphoria. um It's really spiked. In our day and age. Right. Um, You didn't have this issue.

Speaker: to the extent that we do. Um, you know, a while back. And they call it now. um Well, what happened is usually if somebody.

Speaker: Again, just. taking the the contemporary term and putting it back into historical. Setting. Usually if somebody... had gender dysphoria or an issue there.

Speaker: it It basically started from birth or it started from very young childhood. Um, Now. They're saying that. It's...

Speaker: That's... Most of the cases of it now. They're teenagers, and most of them are girls. I think you pointed that out a minute ago. I don't know if I did on air. Okay, maybe you did. Maybe you you mentioned that before we went on the air. Yeah, we were talking about it beforehand. And again.

Speaker: They don't really seek to explain that. you know, in an in -depth way. But. it occurs It occurs among groups of friends, which is not surprising to me.

Speaker: It occurs. ah Um... yeah You know, you you want to be like your friends. You look at the the the the pop stars that they follow.

Speaker: So. A lot of the gender dysphoria amongst teenage girls now. as i've As we've both said many, many times heretofore. um it's it's It's socially.

Speaker: It's a social. construct that's not yeah What I mean to say is we know that that their gender. is female, their sex is female.

Speaker: but they've been influenced by our current culture. Yes, and and it's it's it's very much fostered by... Living in the internet age yeah and the social media age. um because um it It.

Speaker: It can just snowball in such a way. online, in in in in chat rooms and these types of things. There are entire chat rooms that are dedicated just to young people.

Speaker: who are struggling with gender dysphoria. Right. and And then they all get together and they all talk about the same things. and and And it becomes this echo chamber yeah kind of thing. to where, yeah, yeah, that's that's valid what you're feeling and and yeah you need to lean into that. And and and and there's no there's no outside perspective being brought in.

Speaker: to kind of bring you back to... reality back to something solid and so everyone just keeps descending down into this spiral yeah um and and it is it's a social contagion we've heard that term used before um And so I would say, because you kind of stumbled around the the term a second ago, I would say.

Speaker: that gender dysmorphia Yeah. is a social construct. yeah yes i'm sorry gender roles. are not. a social construct that's right um which is what they would tell you. Yes. But I think the gender dysmorphia movement.

Speaker: is a social construct. And gender dysphoria, whatever yeah term they're using. Yeah, I'm sorry. I don't want remember what I said. but Well, you were talking about body dysmorphia. Dysmorphia, like yeah. Like you yeah yeah think you're fat when you're skinny. Right, yeah.

Speaker: Sorry. Or this. Orders. yeah Both of them. Yeah. um and so And again, don't mean that pejoratively. No. but it's it's something that is out of order, so it's a disorder.

Speaker: um But. Yeah, it's it's something that... That. society and the culture. Have. fostered and created and grown and like you said it's grown exponentially right um even even in in in a decade.

Speaker: Um, Compared to... all of recorded human history. yeah um and And again, there are no scientific factors. that would back up this type of spike that we've seen. Right. Because it's...

Speaker: it Like I said, we're talking about something that genetically... if you could argue maybe less than 1 % have some sort of genetic abnormality. that That might cause confusion.

Speaker: you're You're talking way higher percentages than that of of of young people who are claiming to to deal with. Yeah. this dysphoria. Yeah, and... um Yeah, it's... it's Some might say, well, they're just discovering that they're... you know, in the wrong body. Well, no. No, it's... it's Like.

Speaker: there There could be. 50 different factors, socially. as to why a young person might get confused on that issue. Maybe maybe they're outcasts and this would make them. on another in group exactly exactly yeah yeah they feel like they don't belong yeah

Speaker: And like you said, there could be myriad reasons that they might feel like they don't belong. Yeah. But if they happen to stumble upon a particular group. that says, well, this is why you don't belong. Yeah. But you can belong with us because we all feel the same way. yeah then that's highly attractive, right? yeah um Especially if you don't have... something concrete If you don't know what your identity is, if you don't have your identity in Christ, as we would.

Speaker: call you to find. then you're going to look for an identity somewhere. That's right. And and again. With the internet and social media, again, I don't want to sound like an old fuddy -duddy who's harping on that, but...

Speaker: it It is. greatly yeah an influence in in what we're talking about here because It just, it fosters that community yeah to where you feel like you're part of a community. right Um, and so you finally feel like you found a place where you belong yeah and, and.

Speaker: If you're in such a vulnerable state. You can be told. a lot of things by someone else. And if you're in such a vulnerable state, you can believe.

Speaker: Well yeah. that's that's That's how I feel. That's why I feel this way. This all makes sense to me now. yeah um And. Again. It's something that's been socially constructed, and it's a lie.

Speaker: and it's it's not the truth and so ultimately it's going to lead to destruction and death yeah and our culture pushing it, and the deconstruction of long -held values. And. um yeah You know, um like you said a minute ago, friends may be saying lean into it.

Speaker: And our culture's pushing it. You know, I the The Katy Perry line, like it just drives me insane. I kissed a girl and I liked it. and That's a massive influence on young ah young girls. You know, I remember the Madonna, Britney Spears.

Speaker: Kiss on television. they' they're they're They're pushing this. And people think, well, that that's that's normal and heteronormativity. Uh, is is evil you know the the binary is evil you know and so they buy into that And maybe it's nothing more.

Speaker: then Then say a young a young lady, for example. She hasn't met the man of her dreams. She doesn't know why. What's wrong? and But she's got a girlfriend over here. They get along great. And and they're being pushed this cultural message. And hey. Hmm. It's just there there could be a million reasons, but none of them.

Speaker: None of them are, like you say, the The history and the science doesn't... doesn't support the notion. that They're in the wrong body. You know, I'm umm i mean i'm a man.

Speaker: in ah In a woman's body or or a... Wumpum. Man and a woman's whatever. Woman and a man's body. Um, So. Um, Nobody's born in the wrong body. And that's one of the points you highlighted, one of the points the article makes.

Speaker: Um, Chance couldn't give any answer for why that would be the case. Right. Well, there've been scientifically, how how can we prove that you were born in the wrong body? Right. There's there's no way to scientifically prove that. No.

Speaker: And well, they've they've done studies and and they point this out. Some researchers would assume that... let's just say so Let's just say it's a ah woman. who believes she's a man.

Speaker: they would they've They've done studies on the brain. And what they expected to find. was that her braid would be more male, even though She's in a... female body.

Speaker: And none of these studies have Right. Proven anything like that. Um, And so. There are certain aspects of your... brain. That can be altered.

Speaker: Bye. Activity. And by... you know, pursuing certain ways of thinking and and or you know changes in behavior sure that can affect your brain. But there are certain parts of your brain that are hardwired right that can't be.

Speaker: physically changed no matter what you do. um and And so, again, scientifically, that bears out. yeah um to where No, that brain is still female.

Speaker: And you know certain things about the chemistry might have been altered by behavior. But. At its core, that brain is still female. It's not male. Yeah. That's exactly right. so Anyway. um There's a lot more to this this article, but I think we've...

Speaker: We've kind of covered most everything we wanted to touch on, unless I'm forgetting something, brother. You just jump in. but Yeah. um these These folk at least, these these medical folk come down.

Speaker: You know, and basically say that. Gender reassignment surgery is not the way to go. There are other ways to go. Gender reassignment surgery, as you pointed out earlier.

Speaker: worse outcomes. There are plenty of cases of of those who who went through it. In their teen years. And then in their adult years, there was great regret. Oh, yeah. And and a desire to undo it. And and unfortunately.

Speaker: um most of what is done medically is Irreversible. Yeah, that's right. that's right Let me highlight one study they highlighted real quick. ah This is the largest study ever done.

Speaker: Followed more than 300 individuals in Sweden. Half of them were male to female. The other half were female to male. 10 years after, just 10 years after gender reassignment surgery.

Speaker: Um, These individuals. suffered very poor outcomes. I'm just reading here. Their overall mortality rate was three times higher. driven mostly by elevated rates of suicide.

Speaker: um The rate of psychiatric hospitalization was three times higher than the general population. suicide attempts at seven times higher. than the rate of the general population, completed.

Speaker: suicide hits. In other words, They were successful in killing themselves 19 times higher. than the general population. Um, And.

Speaker: Basically, they're saying. The. Like you said a minute ago, none of what the the the reassignment surgery or anything else they did. None of it relieved there. Um, distress.

Speaker: And I... I just wrote down this quote because it's essentially We would be hard pressed to find a surgical procedure that has worse. outcomes. and What medical procedure?

Speaker: that has a 300 % increase in mortality rate after the procedure. Would be recommended as a good treatment for anything yeah yeah in medicine. Yeah.

Speaker: Nothing else. Yeah, nothing. I mean, we we can do this heart surgery for you. But... You're three times more likely to die after we finish this heart surgery.

Speaker: than if we don't do the heart surgery. You want to sign up for that? Yeah, no. Absolutely not. Yeah, no. So... it's It's just, it is it is absolute lunacy. to believe that that these surgeries are a good thing for anyone. Yeah.

Speaker: So I think that the the the conclusion is and you got false ideas, false anthropology, and they point this out, false. You know, science, pseudoscience.

Speaker: um It's going to lead to bad outcomes. so um We'll take it back. Again, him am I jumping in too close to say we'll take it back? Um... We believe in the scientific method. We believe in good science.

Speaker: Um... and um but but ultimately We know why the science tells us what it's telling us is telling us what it's telling us. It's because we're created in the image of God.

Speaker: And he's designed us. is... Male and female. Man and woman. And. We're different. And it's a good design. It's a good design. By a good designer. Yeah. um And.

Speaker: Any rejection of that design is ultimately a rejection of the designer. And and and that is why. uh, any any pursuit of the rejection of that design is going to end.

Speaker: in heartache. or death or destruction or depression. or whatever. negative uh result you want to you want to imagine um because it's a rejection of the creator yeah and And ultimately the the only hope. if if you're feeling like you don't belong if you're feeling like you don't have a place If you're feeling like you're the wrong person in the wrong body,

Speaker: Um, the The answer is not. to continue to follow after a lie that says that yes we should just go ahead and and and alter your body um to to pursue after this thought.

Speaker: The answer is to find... Again, and and and I don't want it to sound cliche, but we... We have to find our identity in Christ. yeah and And in being. ah His creation.

Speaker: And in realizing that he has a plan. and And he. Can give you a place to belong because you belong with him. Yeah. um And so. Again, ultimately, the answer for this, just like it is for everything, is the gospel.

Speaker: yeah is is to to know and trust and believe in in Jesus i right and his plan. for your life yeah um and and not to follow after. these lies that are ultimately leading to quite literal destruction.

Speaker: Well said. Anything else? That's all I got. Well, same here. I'm sure we'll talk a little bit more about. other issues related to men and women, you know, and they're their're is our design and our roles. and Culture and government and the church. and All the rest on a future broadcast like everything else we touch on. but Suffice it to say, yeah, look to Christ. so I know. Anyway. All right. Well, we'll see you next time.

Speaker: on Answering Pilot The Answering Pilot Podcast is a ministry of Randall House Church in Greer, South Carolina. You can learn more RandallHouseBeer .com slash church.

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