Transcript
Speaker: Well, Dustin, we're going to be talking about. The ongoing moral collapse in our culture today. Okay. So... hopefully that'll be of interest and we don't just do this to be of interest we're trying to Figure out what to do.
Speaker: You know, what what we need to be. I think one of the things that... and One of the reasons we've been... thinking along these lines lightly is not only certain things we've been talking about in our own local church but uh Here on the the podcast.
Speaker: Um... We've been talking about the power of the gospel. in different contexts and then you know last I think it was last time, maybe it was the time before, but we we talked about how the gospel overcomes, and indeed it does.
Speaker: And yet we look at our own nation, our own culture, for example. and a large Christian influence. ah In the beginning, I wouldn't say that most of the. people in in America at its founding were Christians per se. But you had this Christian influence. And and that grew. and you saw certain cultural goods Um,
Speaker: yeah you know as a result of that christian influence and And now we see, and it's not just now, it's been going on for years and years, but we see a decline. In, uh...
Speaker: Christian influence in our culture. A decline in... You know, the values that we once held dear, these are things we're talking about. And so ah we thought it'd be good to.
Speaker: You know, we've talked about some of the outside forces like mass migration and in a short term, short period of time. you You have... um ah sort of a dilution of the of the cultural values. And that that that's certainly an issue.
Speaker: You've got... some Other folk who have nefarious agendas. You know, we talk about critical theory and things like that. and We've seen all kinds of things.
Speaker: yeah you know, just just going on in our culture for years and years. but But to bring it back, you know, to what can we do? I think before we answer that question, we have to realize.
Speaker: What responsibility we... as Christians bear as as part of the church? What responsibility does the church bear? Is the church partly at fault?
Speaker: Maybe mainly at fault. Right? So is the church partly or mainly at fault? In terms of. where we are in our culture today. so that's kind of yeah um and uh Hopefully this a little bit better helps bring into focus.
Speaker: A little bit of what we discussed, as you said, in our previous episodes. Um, You know, we we touched a little bit on eschatology. And um I think we both ended up saying we don't neatly fit into a certain box.
Speaker: when it comes to the view of end times and those kind of things. um And so um while we wouldn't necessarily. ascribe to what most, I guess you would say, post -mills would say, that there's a linear you know. conquering of the world where it you know gradually gets more and more Christianized.
Speaker: um And we're also not of the dispensational mindset where. Um, we just know it's all going to burn and we're just keeping our head down, you know, waiting for the end. Right. um We do believe that there are, we've used the term ebbs and flows, um that that ultimately the gospel is overcoming. And and we've seen that. and We've seen plenty of evidence of.
Speaker: the gospel going forth to the nations it's It's in places it's never been before. um and we see revivals take place ah around around the world. even around our own nation, um yeah even in the in the state we find ourselves in. um But...
Speaker: we do believe that there are ebbs and flows and we believe that Um, Just believing that also doesn't mean... that we just, again, just sit back and and let the ride take place. yeah you know um we do believe that the church has a very real responsibility and by the church.
Speaker: we don't necessarily mean an organization but by the church we mean believers, we mean the body of Christ, right have a very real responsibility in the world today to advance that gospel.
Speaker: um But. also to understand. Um, Where? the decline may come from, where some of the ebbs may come from. ye um but to push the flow yeah as well that's right to use those terms no that's right that's right ah Just ah to to keep talking about the the theological dynamic. ah You know, you come to the Old Testament.
Speaker: We're going through Ezekiel right now. And we see there, and and we've seen it before in different places in the scriptures, but... um The people of God have... Unfortunately, the old Old Covenant Israel, they've strayed from the Lord. They're engaging in idolatry.
Speaker: As they were prone to do. And of course, certain judgments are falling. On. Um, In particular, the southern kingdom of Judah, but but really both both kingdoms, Israel as a whole, the northern kingdom of Israel included.
Speaker: And... um it's It's the result, again, of their idolatry. and so we're we're We're not in exactly the same. um position with God, the church, I mean, the the true church, true the new covenant, believers, you know, all are all are regenerate.
Speaker: um But we do have a lot of... Um... Local churches, for example. um that are part of... I don't want to use the word apostate, but they're part of denominations that aren't really committed to the authority of Scripture.
Speaker: um And and maybe they maybe some are part of denominations that are. but maybe they're weak or maybe those individual local churches are just not committed at all. Anyway, I don't i don't want to get bogged down there. All I'm saying is. Certainly.
Speaker: Under the new covenant uh believers uh are in the new covenant so we're the the church when you're talking about the true church um That's a little bit different.
Speaker: than Old Covenant Israel. But nevertheless, the Bible does say Um, 1 Peter 4, for example. It's time for judgment to begin at the house of God. And, of course, if you look at that in context, what's he talking about? well He's talking about those larger cultural dynamics that are going on in the first century. And certainly. Israel is being judged. You know, it's it's a forward view toward AD 70 and the destruction of the temple and the destruction of Jerusalem.
Speaker: and the closing out of that Old Covenant order. and the ushering in of the new. And so... ah when it talks about judgment beginning in the house of God. It's not a judgment on the church in exactly the same way.
Speaker: that judgment fell on Old Covenant Israel. That's what I'm laboring to say. sure It's... it's a it's a pruning and a purifying and um yeah You know, when when Christians, genuine Christians and genuine churches...
Speaker: go through the the fires of persecution, um there's there's a ah winnowing away of the dross you know because in in a fallen world. you're You're going to have.
Speaker: Those who have made professions of faith join local churches. um And and all we can't judge the heart. Only God can judge the heart. But let's say they made a... profession of faith. Um...
Speaker: You know, they act like they love the Lord. They're there in church, but when... persecution comes all of a sudden or different things. It doesn't just have to be persecution, but different things. they can fall away. And these are folk who never were safe to begin with. Hmm. They weren't part of the covenant.
Speaker: That's a whole other discussion, by the way. yeah But, you know, Peter's talking about judgment beginning in the house of God, meaning. Okay, well, maybe maybe you've got some false professors. ah within the within the doors, or maybe the church isn't being what it's supposed to be.
Speaker: But without getting too bogged down, what I'm thinking is. Okay, you've got a lot of churches in our in our nation. that aren't that call themselves churches but they aren't Church is the Lord Jesus. Right.
Speaker: and And you've got denominations that aren't acting the way they ought to act or teaching or preaching the way ought to teach or preach. And so I'm looking at the larger church in America. And I'm saying. All right, there's ah there's a... A judgment falling.
Speaker: um We talked about... Romans 1 recently. And how. ah people. when they're given over to their sin individually.
Speaker: That is judgment. Right. Right. Yeah. A lot of times um I think. we can perceive when we when we hear about the Lord judging. uh, people.
Speaker: Um, orination. um We always think about, you know. physical destruction that may take place or Um, or or those types of things.
Speaker: Um, where you know an actual We can see like bad things are happening to those people and and that's the judgment. And and that is that can be an element of it, but just the giving over. Yeah. to the sinfulness um is also a form of judgment. Yeah, um because he's he's removing.
Speaker: Any. ability to repent. yeah yeah for them that's right um and so yes um falling into and being given over.
Speaker: to those sinful desires, which will ultimately destroy us, is a judgment in and of itself. That's right. Yeah, we we all understand. ah common grace and restraining grace, all those things are.
Speaker: different than saving grace, but... You know, God doesn't allow people to be as sinful as they could be. So that's that's sort of an easy, loose definition of restraining grace.
Speaker: But when he gives you over to your sin, that's a problem because you're you're just acting in accordance with your nature. and God's not restraining you there. Maybe he's still restraining you. from being as as completely sinful as you could be.
Speaker: But nevertheless, that's a whole other issue as well. But I was thinking. You know... Again, speaking of the the larger church.
Speaker: Just by way of example. And we're going to get to some things, but but by way of example. Honestly, just... I was in my office this morning. looking at some other things, doing some work and I was getting ready to come over.
Speaker: over here and meet with you. And ah on my email. ah I get these. um and newsletters from different Christian organizations. And one of them was talking about.
Speaker: i don't know if i didn't read it i just read the headline deleted it didn't have time to so to worry about it But whether it was a particular branch or a particular church, but a Methodist church.
Speaker: coming out and saying, there's no such thing as hell. I don't know if it was a church or the church. You know, you've had... a different ah churches. um um Methodist churches and Episcopal, for example, ordaining homosexual. They call them priests there.
Speaker: Um, pastors, we would call them. it's It's just unbelievable. I remember. Side issue, side note, I guess, anecdote. Um, Back when I was in college, i was in the summers, I was working with my dad. He was in construction and development and all the rest.
Speaker: And he had some property to sell. And he was interviewing a realtor. And I was i was there just kind of learning the ropes or whatever. And this this realtor, we found out, he's a former Methodist pastor.
Speaker: And wow, that's interesting. right because you know god was doing a work in our lives at that time and wow this is great well it turns out The reason he's a former Methodist pastor is he he he's homosexual, and that came out. I don't know how And he was defrocked, as it were.
Speaker: And. um yeah You know, I just remember certain conversations. We were like. how can a pastor be a homosexual and all this stuff but here we are fast forward what what are we 50 years removed from that now Well, 40 years, but nevertheless. uh It's all over the place. so That's where we're going with that.
Speaker: We're going to get a little bit more organiz organized here. We're just sort of wading into this as we... often do. Um, Here's a verse that stands out in our minds, and I'll get you to comment on it.
Speaker: But you know, in in Matthew 5, ah Jesus, the Sermon on the Mount. He's talking about how we're salt and and light. And and he I think it's 513.
Speaker: He says, but if the salt... loses its flavor. It's good for nothing but to be cast down. and trampled upon by men. And I think, and we've talked about this for for years, I think there's...
Speaker: a sense in which much of much of Christian, maybe myself personally. in ways that i don't realize but we've lost our saltiness that preserving power That flavoring power.
Speaker: in culture. And. part of why Our culture is being handed over to its sin. Maybe church is being handed over to their sin. I just think that.
Speaker: and And again, part of that for the true believer. His sanctification and that. that you know clearing away of the draw so that we can be more. effective for the kingdom and all that. So that's what we want to talk about this in terms of.
Speaker: we're We're just talking to ourselves first, but we're talking to really fellow brothers and sisters. And, fellas. church leaders, hey, let's think about this and let's... You know, let's step up to the plate. Right. Yeah. And and again, to to go with the analogy that you were using.
Speaker: um How can we... not be the dross. and That's being... that's being ah Winnowed away. And how can how can we... um Maintain our saltiness, yeah so to speak.
Speaker: um and and be strengthened. um During. Time. a time of trial in the church, which is. where we find ourselves you know so many of these denominations that you kind of briefly mentioned um It's not that... um they've suddenly risen up as just these apostate uh denominations you know um There's... things that we would disagree with them theologically over the years But...
Speaker: uh, the majority of these denominations. in in their history. were committed to biblical truth yes yes um but as we've seen over the years They've stepped away from that. And again, it begins as a gradual.
Speaker: you know, moving away from... from scripture as your authority that's right um and then we now are seeing ah where those things can end up.
Speaker: Yeah. and And who knows? how much further It could go. If the Lord doesn't. Do something drastic. yeah In between. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker: Yeah, you've got major denominations that... ah have experienced. um riffs, blitz, whatever you want to call them. um I think of the the Presbyterian Church. or Back in...
Speaker: I guess the the final break was in the early 70s, if I'm not mistaken. But, you know, a more and more liberal stance. And so. Um, People like... um Maybe this is even...
Speaker: ah The result of of people sending the warning bell before that, but like Machen, Jay Gresham, Machen. you know, sounding the warning bell and liberalism creeping in. And. um Ultimately.
Speaker: Um... You know, you have to they break away from Princeton University because they're going liberal and they form Westminster Seminary. They break away from. The PC.
Speaker: USA and and formulate the OPC. And then you got other more conservative denominations that that rose. uh pca but But even now, there's drift in, sadly.
Speaker: The PCA, there's drift in the OPC. It's unbelievable. you You look at our own denomination. We came out of the the SBC context, Southern the Baptist context. And.
Speaker: um Yeah, in the 1840s, theologically sound, you know, for... you know, right up until probably the 1930s or so. And then you have this liberal drift.
Speaker: And then you have these these denominational... In -fightings and... and And then there's in the 80s. after a horrendous 1963 Baptist Faith and Message revision. But in the 80s, you had this conservative resurgence.
Speaker: And. So then you have those more liberal leaning. Churches. Exit from the SBC. And so, wow, this is great. The Lord's doing the work. And yet...
Speaker: The SBC now of course still plagued. with lots and lots of problems, even in so -called conservative churches. We can look at other denominations. That's not our... purpose. These are just examples of of what we're talking about.
Speaker: so I think it's a... a real problem. and um I think we agree on that. So yeah if if you've got churches abandoning...
Speaker: God's standards, we'll put it that way. Then... How? How? surprising is it that the culture would abandon right god's standards right Yeah, because, again... um We wouldn't call.
Speaker: ah the United States of America, a Christian nation. Hmm. um as most people would define it, um even even in its founding. um But... At the same time.
Speaker: uh, for decades. for century or more. There was a. Christian influence on the culture. Mm hmm. And again, that doesn't mean that they were all believers.
Speaker: um But the church was active. Um, The Christians were active in their... uh society. and and there was an effect that was that was seen that was a net positive. Yeah. um But ah as.
Speaker: that has been suppressed and and pushed aside um We see that when when the church, again, not an organization, but the people of God are not.
Speaker: taking an active role in influencing ah their culture around them. then we see the culture decline yeah morally. Yeah, that's right. So let's just ah talk about a few specific issues we've been generalizing thus far. and well We'll generalize some more, I'm sure.
Speaker: But a few specific issues, if we could. um we we We're going to resort to our notes here so we don't have these. roundabout uh conversations into We're prone to, and I take responsibility for that. Sorry about that.
Speaker: But well I think one of the first issues that... that we see. And we'll probably talk about. um you know, four big ones, three or four big ones. But one. It's just...
Speaker: Over time. The retreat of the church. from culture at large. sure You alluded to this. a few minutes a few minutes ago. But.
Speaker: w -w - We'll get to what you alluded to. It's sort of on the backside of this. This first. dynamic we want to want to refer to. But I think the the retreat of the church from culture, meaning less influence in the culture, almost intentionally. Part of that.
Speaker: was It's hard to put a label on it, but it's sort of an individualistic Pietistic. Um, focus on not only personal salvation,
Speaker: um Obviously, you have to be saved as an individual. but personal salvation, personal devotion. My personal walk with Jesus. And. And that's somehow, some way, and we'll get more specific on that with some other issues, but somehow, some way.
Speaker: that there's There's this notion that... that. you know my walk with God is this personal privatized thing. It has nothing to do with either the larger church, but particularly the larger culture.
Speaker: And especially ah in my public life. I mean, I'm not going to. you know, think about jesus at work or talk about jesus at work or talk about jesus in the marketplace.
Speaker: you know you know, religion is is private. And you've heard that before because, well, it's just a private thing. and It's not just the world that's saying that. you know, Christians were saying that and have been saying that for a long, long time. And that's certainly not.
Speaker: the way the bible sure describes our faith. Right, yeah. um you know We wouldn't have ah the Great Commission. if our faith was supposed to be something that was just privatized and yeah and just mine.
Speaker: and Why would I need to go into all of the earth and make disciples? um If. If it's just my own personal fate. um And so, you know, the the gospel is by design.
Speaker: to to be proclaimed. And to. ah to have an impact and effect. on the world around it. um And... There's different reasons.
Speaker: Um, I think that... that this withdrawal has taken place. um and You know, I think a lot of times. Uh... and And again, that individual.
Speaker: The individual individualization of your faith is one of those. But I think a lot of times. um Maybe those that... that are that would agree with us and and and be critical of.
Speaker: ah The church is kind of. backing away. from from culture. Um, would would say it's because Christians are are weak.
Speaker: or Or maybe even lazy um and and those types of things. And I do think that there are some. for who that would be true. yeah um but Some have misguided, but theological reasons for it as well.
Speaker: We've kind of alluded to that a little bit. but yeah You know. that that pietist that but also that dispensational type view. um that says that you know. Everything we see around us, it's it's it's all it's it's all going to hell in a handbasket, right? That's right. And it's going to be destroyed.
Speaker: It's all going to burn up. And so, you know, we've used the phrase before, don't polish the brass on a sinking ship. Right. Right. um And so. But that's an actual theological belief that again, it's misguided.
Speaker: We don't think it's biblical. right um but Following that. that theology to its logical end would say that. you know. How much point is there really to me?
Speaker: living out my faith and and and being vocal about it yeah um because It's all just going to burn away in the end. And and we just need to we just need to hold on and wait for the Lord to return and and he'll restore everything. Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right.
Speaker: I think part of what you're hitting on is that there are. theological reasons for a lot of what we're seeing. and erroneous theology, you know its error, as you said.
Speaker: um But. you know what you believe affects how you live and we know that yeah And so we've got some some major things to overcome there. But but talking about...
Speaker: Really, that whole pietistic dynamic, that individualized Christianity. And then you mentioned dispensationalism. they They kind of go together in in some sense. And so when you have...
Speaker: A withdrawal from the culture. but to a a privatized religion. And then a withdrawal from the culture because... Well... you know This is just the world.
Speaker: you know we're to be in the world but not of the world and all that kind of stuff sure and of course but we would affirm the sentiment of that statement if you're saying well i don't want to sin But sometimes people...
Speaker: in, in in these theological in this theological mindset, well, You know, there's and we'll come to the sacred secular divide a little bit later i want to keep i want to keep that separate but it's really part of it meaning that well that's just worldly stuff All this is going to burn up. and You know, a lot of folk have the mindset like like you were alluding to.
Speaker: Yeah, what I do here. you know If I'm just out here doing my job, that didn't really matter for eternity. What really matters is my personal walk with Jesus and things of that nature. We'll elaborate on that in a moment. but um it's It's really caused a withdrawal from Christians.
Speaker: Um... in in certain areas like politics. Um, But not only that. or say art. Or... media, but even Christians who think, well, I got to get a job somewhere.
Speaker: um'm um I'm a good artist, so I can be a graphic designer or painter. Or... you know I can be a newscaster or whatever. but they still going into that.
Speaker: into those fields. they They leave their faith at the door. Do you understand what I'm saying? yeah Yeah. So I think as Christians have withdrawn. from from culture in that way.
Speaker: Yeah, I think, you know, you said the phrase and I definitely heard it growing up being in in the world, but not of it. um And again, like I said, we would we would agree with that sentiment. um In... in a biblical understanding of it. Right. um But I think the way that it's been lived out um with with so many in the church today.
Speaker: is that Now... you're not even... in it. Yeah. You know, being in the world, but not of it. Yeah, me means.
Speaker: Yeah, we're... we're in the middle of what's going on in our world. But we're not of it as in we're not influenced by. Uh... by the world's philosophy by the world's view of things.
Speaker: we're We're of the Lord. We're influenced by. uh, the Bible and by his worldview, um and but we're still supposed to be in it. but But so many Christians have taken it to the extreme that...
Speaker: um Well... If I'm going to not be of the world, the only way I can do that is to just not be in it, to just yeah you know just not. take my Christianity into the world yeah and, and just, and. Again, just go along to get along.
Speaker: You know, another phrase I always heard when I was younger. is And I think maybe this is part of it too, and it goes back to that privatized pi individual piety kind of thing.
Speaker: That, you know. You might be the only Bible a person ever reads. And and the way I think that that has been. taken and lived out. is that if I'm just a good person. And I just.
Speaker: you know, I just do good, then then that's going to be enough. for people around me you know to know that I'm different. Yeah. um But to the extreme that that does, that means that I don't ever.
Speaker: I don't ever. talk about the lord i don't ever proclaim the gospel. I don't ever, you know. i Don't ever explain why do i live a certain way right i just i just try to Be a good employee. I just try to.
Speaker: do all these things and all of those things are good and they do honor the lord But. If that's where it ends. then... then we're not doing it with a gospel motivation yeah that's right and so then we don't have that saltiness yeah we don't have that influence right And I think and when we mentioned this a minute ago. I guess now's as good a time as any. That's why it popped in into my head. but But...
Speaker: again because of what you're saying that whole sacred secular divide there is this notion that All right, well, we've got sacred things, you know. We go to church and church is sacred space and that kind of thing.
Speaker: And then the world's just the world. And, and. and And like you say, okay, well, in that mindset, it can lead you to... To not really, not only not talking about.
Speaker: The why I do, I try to be a good employee. But maybe I don't even think in terms of. why I'm a good employee other than and God wants me to be a good person. Well,
Speaker: you know he He wants us to bring a biblical worldview and a kingdom mindset right to... Our job, like we're doing what we're doing.
Speaker: For the glory of God, to bring good cultural goods to this world. Influence others for Christ. Um, Talk to people about you know who we are and what we're about and why. Like you said.
Speaker: leads into the gospel and all that. but but seeing that we're we're stewards. of whatever it is that God's given us. ah let me Let me go back and let's just hit that sacred secular because I'm already kind of jumping into the application of it.
Speaker: ah Biblically speaking, there's there's no there's really no distinction between the sacred and the secular. I mean, let let me give you an example. I mean, we've talked about this. A lot of Christians think, well,
Speaker: You know, the ones who are doing the real work of the ministry or the real kingdom work. pastors and missionaries. Right. The rest of us... We have to work these secular jobs and we're not really.
Speaker: You know, we're not really doing the Lord's work there. Right. Which is where you were going, I think. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just a mailman or I'm just an attorney or I'm just a truck driver. Yeah. You know, and that's just, ah again, a secular job.
Speaker: And and um I'm. I'm not called to ministry yeah because a pastor is called to ministry. yeah um I'm just supposed to go out here and and do the best I can. you know, um but I'm not called to ministry. and And that's the furthest thing from the truth.
Speaker: where all believers are called to ministry. um we you know We do believe that there are those who are called to... Um, to positions in the church, so to speak.
Speaker: um You know, we do believe that there are elders and there are deacons and those kind of things that the Lord calls. but we don't believe that that's a more sacred calling. ah than than the call that exists to every believer in whatever sphere of influence he's placed you. yeah yeah yeah Every calling. ah uh is sacred if you're a christian right because you're the one set apart
Speaker: by God. And so every, and I'll use the term, every legitimate vocation. Obviously, you can't run a a brothel or something right right but every legitimate vocation Um,
Speaker: you know, ah Years ago, I was in real estate. God called me to be in real estate. Mm hmm. Right and and now, for the last... 30 years.
Speaker: I've been called into. uh vocational And I'm using that term, this is my job. See, even the way we use terms. But I'm full -time pastor. Um,
Speaker: Now I do some. Part -time stuff. I coach swimming. And and part of that. is because we have this understanding that there really is no sacred -secular divide in that sense.
Speaker: I am called to be that swim coach. Because it glorifies God to... Help kids. overcome. Uh... You know, the inability.
Speaker: that humans have. to function smoothly in the water because we're not fish. ah um But you don't want to teach those kids at at the very basic level. If they fall off a boat in a lake, they're going to be able to swim to shore and not drown. And that's huge. But.
Speaker: Um, training your body and all of those things. so you You coach. ah basketball. little little young fellows and all that stuff. But the the point being. All of those are vocations.
Speaker: And being a ah pastor is not more holy or more godly, as you said. They're the same. We just need to make that point. So part of it is mindset. And so we've got to have that mindset. Okay, there is no distinction between the sacred and the secular.
Speaker: We've got to have the mindset that We can't just abandon. certain vocations like politics. Oh, that's just dirty business. Well. It can be dirty business. Sure. But you'd be different. Right? you You stand up for what's right. That's why Christians need to be.
Speaker: a part of it right to help change the culture of that. What if we had an army of... of young Christians. ah Who? who just invaded the political arena. that's That's what we need, right? And that's part of what we're urging. and Um,
Speaker: Another issue that that kind of relates to this. and And again, let's let's go back. We're talking about that whole. Um, dispensational mindset why polish the brass on the sinking ship the world is the world We've got to remain unspotted from the world. I mean, the Bible does say that. Well, again, you can push that so far that.
Speaker: You've just withdrawn from the world, right? right so we're withdrawing from Science and art and entertainment and media and politics and... education and all the rest. so Um.
Speaker: All of these Christian... Subcultures Like, okay, well, we're going to have Instead of... ah You know, joining the the... the the community rec league we're gonna have a christian rec league now i know some of them part of their motivation there Well, you know, we're going to get people to come to church and all that, and we're going to have this. But a lot of it.
Speaker: A lot of Christians know they just don't want to fool with. you know, people who aren't Christians. so we yeah the The, I don't know, the Christian. Basketball Association and the Christian.
Speaker: um coffee house and the christian do do you know what i'm saying and and i've often said and then i don't want to put words in your mouth but i think you've said this or agree with it Why not? um And of course, the YMCA, that's a...
Speaker: Used to be a Christian organization, but... you know Why not join the local Y League if you want to infiltrate the culture? and live for the glory of God and carry the gospel into that arena. rather than just have your own little basketball league for your church members. I mean, I played church basketball growing up. Don't get me wrong.
Speaker: And I know there there are. mixed motives for that. Um, But in a lot of instances, there was there was nobody on any of the teams I was on who wasn't a member of the church. So they're already members of the church.
Speaker: and we're playing other churches. what Why not play in the county league? Right, yeah. Do you understand what I'm saying? I don't know. yeah it's so Again, it might have even been initially.
Speaker: imagined as an outreach but It really isn't. Yeah. Right. It's just a place for all the. Christians to kind of... cloister and and play some basketball together.
Speaker: um but That. isn't really having an impact on the world yeah um and so again so then why are we going to get ah to play basketball just to play basketball Um,
Speaker: Which, again, in the Christian's mindset. why Why would I play basketball? Well... We need to have a a a Christian mindset.
Speaker: a heavenly mindset, as it were. um of why I would do something like play basketball. Yeah. um and And yes, it can be. to give glory to God because he gave me the body and the ability to move. and and And do those kind of things. and And like you said, with swimming, teaching discipline. and and, you know, learning how to do things and those kind of things. can give glory to God, but also If I can, if I can.
Speaker: play ball. and share the gospel. with those that I'm playing ball with, yeah um then then there's a there's a heavenly motivation yeah for doing what I do. yeah not Um,
Speaker: Let me play ball, but let me do it far away from all the centers. you know right um so that it's just me and and the people that i sit in the pew with So, again, then why why are we doing it? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker: My daughter made ah made a comment to me a week or two ago. And it kind of landed on me the same. way as what what you're saying. her husband, my son -in -law He's like you. He grew up playing baseball. And you played baseball for a little while in college and all that. but I admire that I wish I could play baseball. um I got a cousin who played baseball, but that was a long time ago. But anyway.
Speaker: His last name was Dean. Some people might know him. but to Didn't rub off on me. Yeah. But. um She made a comment. Uh, he. Of course.
Speaker: He's a family man, you know, now. I mean, he's married he's easy and he's he's he's got a job and all that stuff. and and doing very well. um But he's yeah he's still got friends, praise God.
Speaker: Wish I still had friends. No, I'm kidding. I have friends. They're not inviting me to play baseball, though, at my age. And, of course, I never was good at baseball. But anyway.
Speaker: So he gets invited to play in the on these teams. And so... um He's trying to balance home life and that. That's fine. And so, and and he's having a good time and getting some exercise.
Speaker: But he's actually on two teams. They just wrapped up their season. One, he's in a church league. And then the other, he's in in a county league. So he's in both. He's got his foot in both worlds.
Speaker: And ah she just made the comment she had no idea of what we were. you know going to be talking about today. and And at the time, I wasn't even thinking about it either. But she said. ah Yeah, he he plays in the church league on this night and plays in the county league on the other night.
Speaker: Excuse me. And I said, are you going to are you and to watch the game tonight? because she goes to the some of the games they said well i go to the the church games but And is's not I'm not. you know throwing off on her. is just yeah you know She's got her baby.
Speaker: Yeah. And. ah Yeah, the county league, it's a different it's a different crowd. It's a different crowd, a different group of guys. I just let him handle that. it's like Okay. Well, the point being.
Speaker: Um... He's, and you know him. You know, Dave, he he's... he's He is not shy about talking to people sure about theology or the or the Bible or the Lord or his faith.
Speaker: And so this is my point in a roundabout way. Sorry. lo Okay, have that have that church softball league. That's great. But what what if all those... uh christians in that league Also played in the County League.
Speaker: And they weren't shy. I'm not saying you have to be the... The guy who's at the front of the line all the time, you know out there. talking about Right. But what if they weren't shy like...
Speaker: What if they had more influence on those men in that county league? than the non -Christian men had on. Right, right. Yeah. and You know, it's not like I'm going to slide into third base and pop up and be like, let me tell you about the gospel. right That's not what we're saying. no um But...
Speaker: Use those opportunities. being around lost people. yeah um to to use those opportunities to. Share the gospel with them to talk about.
Speaker: the things of the lord to talk about Big things and big issues. um And. You know, again, it's not it's not that. you know, we've got our glove in one hand and our Bible in the other. right um But.
Speaker: Again, it's just part of that whole mindset of. We want to be. In the world, we want to be around. The people of the world. Right. no we don't want to be of it we don't want we don't want them to influence and and ironically um ah I was thinking this too.
Speaker: So many of what we've set up as these Christian organizations. that may have been designed to... not be influenced by the world.
Speaker: If you really look at it, a lot of it it ended up... being influenced by the world. Um... Okay. There's been some church league. basketball games or softball games I've been to.
Speaker: seeing some Seen some break out and things like that. and not Not exactly acting like Christians right right um there. and so um again so then did we even accomplish our stated purpose there yeah um And again, it just all comes to this mindset of.
Speaker: doing what I do for the glory of God. to advance his kingdom, to advance his gospel. Whatever it is I'm doing. If I'm a preacher at a church, great. If, um... playing baseball in a rec league then then how do i How do I do that for the kingdom?
Speaker: How do I drive a truck for the kingdom? um Yeah. you know all of these things you know we've talked about before you know going again down this road of ah creating Christian alternatives.
Speaker: to secular. things you know we've we've talked about this before with art and music yes um films uh all of these things um And.
Speaker: A couple of things end up happening in those areas. One is it. A lot of times it ends up being subpar, right? Yeah, yeah. um the The movies that we might put out that we want to be a Christian movie. um Just... just objectively looking at it.
Speaker: you're not You're not drawn to that movie as much as you would be. this movie that hollywood put out right right regardless of the content just Yeah, it doesn't look... Like a quality right project that's been made right um music All of these things.
Speaker: Or... Because we recognize that. Then... We still want to compromise. And, and let the influence of the world.
Speaker: Make us look. But we're still going to call ourselves Christian music or we're going to call it a Christian movie. Right. But, you know, we we were talking about a. a movie centered around a Christian theme.
Speaker: or a biblical theme the other day um with some people we were talking about it um that had recently released. But then... Uh... reading some of the reviews.
Speaker: um There were people who were complaining about. the biblical story being drastically changed. in order to try to make it a more attractive story um when the story itself if you actually read the story from the Bible.
Speaker: is... plenty amazing in itself you know it doesn't need to be embellished it doesn't need to be ah modified or changed. right um but We try to do that because then, because again.
Speaker: You know, it's not just trying to withdraw from the world, but now it's You know, we're wanting it. to be successful. And we're compromising that. um And so. Again.
Speaker: we're we're losing, we're losing sight of that motivation of why, why did I make this film? Yeah. Right. um I wanna make the best possible product that I can.
Speaker: That is still going to advance the kingdom yeah and and and put the gospel on us. Yeah. Well, and again, to your point, what what if we had Christians who are in the filmmaking industry?
Speaker: And, okay, you can make. Some movies that have a biblical storyline. or some movies that don't necessarily have a biblical storyline. But in in the the plot and the movie itself, you're going to promote.
Speaker: ah biblical values. ah even if it's not overt, you know like faithfulness or like... ah yeah you know, genuine heroism or... you know, honesty, whatever. I'm just saying.
Speaker: but But you have Christians there, and and then you do it with excellence. you know You have good cinematography, and you have good directors. and Yeah, like you say, you've got the subpar products, very disappointing. You've got the cheesy.
Speaker: you know um What do you call it? plots and all that. It's it's just. What if ah you know you take you take some good... Um, Well...
Speaker: I think in one sense. I'm not a movie. critic or a movie buff i don't even watch a lot of movies especially these days just just very busy But I think that.
Speaker: Well, I won't mention any But I do think there are some. movies that that Hollywood has produced. that have good messages from time to time. Well, we could be doing that constantly. And um anyway.
Speaker: i don't want to get to well and and and and and again not to make this a rabbit trail the The ultimate point Um, I think that that i'm that I'm kind of getting at.
Speaker: is Look at now where we've ended up. Where you have, again, it's either... it's either for quality. or we've changed the message.
Speaker: what we're seeing is this cycle that happens when the church decided to pull out. yes and refuse to... have an influence on the culture around it.
Speaker: Guess what's going to happen? It's going to happen. Yeah. The culture is now going to end up influencing. That's right. That's right. um That. pulling out. is not going to have the effect of insulating us from the world. um when Excellent. When we pull back from from yeah having influence on the world around us.
Speaker: without realizing it down the road. we are opening ourselves up to the world influencing the church. You got it. You got it. That's right. That's exactly right. You you become more and more like the culture rather than the're the other way around.
Speaker: and And it's just like you go back to the to the church basketball league or whatever. i've I've been to some of those games too and ah played played in some of those years and years ago. Um,
Speaker: it' It's discouraging, and and that's the thing. If if if Christians are... Having a church league and then then you have unbelievers come, great. If you're in the county league, In the midst of unbelievers, great.
Speaker: But... You start by being different. You don't use the same foul language. You know you you don't get mad at the umpire. Or, man, we've seen some coaches melt down recently, haven't we, on on football. I did.
Speaker: Mm. What did somebody say the other day? Side issue. He said that we were just talking with some guys from Georgia. He said, I'm convinced in order to be a college football coach.
Speaker: He was kind of joking. You have to be. i think he's I think first he said you have to be a little bit crazy. Yeah. But then yeah he even said you have to be lost. Yeah, you have to be lost. Or you're just not qualified. Yeah. Oh, my goodness. But but yes, but if we're in that and we have different.
Speaker: different way of handling adversity for example and we're good sports and and i'm not talking about being you know sissies or anything like that but you know you don't have to you know, get in people's face. And if you lose a game, you don't have to. storm out and not shake somebody's hand. You know, you you do the right thing. It's just a game. and okay so then what happened all right you said then you develop relationships with guys on the team Who? who aren't. uh
Speaker: you know, Christians and, you know, you can go out after the game. You guys going to go get something to eat or. whatever and then you know When you develop those relationships, conversations happen. Yeah.
Speaker: So, that's it. Yeah. um It's not a ah lesson on evangelism today. I'm just saying. Those are the things that we... We can. ah talk about and and to your point a moment ago when Christians pull out.
Speaker: Hmm. but Whatever. any field, any area of life. Not only does the world all of a sudden start to influence us more.
Speaker: but you leave that vacuum for everybody else. And that vacuum, is if it's not filled with Christian influence, it's filled with... You know. demonic influence satanic influence and that that's what we're witnessing in our culture So I think that's the first big item and we spent a lot of time on that one.
Speaker: But just this withdrawal from culture, it's left a vacuum. Satan's been happy to fill it. You know, if we're not there. So. Want to move on just a little bit? Sure. Yeah, let's let's talk about...
Speaker: a lack of discipleship. Um, excuse me lack of ongoing discipleship i don't think a lot of people know what discipleship is And I'll use another word in conjunction with that.
Speaker: Just a lack of training. Because when you come to the scriptures, ah Yes, ah you got to have sound doctrine. But you got to learn to apply that sound doctrine to your heart.
Speaker: which means you apply it to your life. but But there's also the practice of it. You know, we're told in the scriptures, exercise yourselves unto godliness. That that word exercise is there for a reason. Right. that It takes practice to put off sin.
Speaker: and unrighteous habit patterns that are ingrained. in us before we come to know Christ. And, and Put on. godly habit patterns to replace those ungodly ones got to renew the mind and all that so all i'm saying is There's got to be.
Speaker: Training in righteousness. Paul uses that term. Instruction and training, both. Yeah, yeah. you know ah For so long, I think discipleship has been viewed.
Speaker: as a one -hour class at 5 o 'clock on Sunday. we You know, and. Um, Again. that that word disciple.
Speaker: um you know What does that mean? Well, it means a learner. um But that doesn't just mean someone who's. Who's... taking in theological information. um It's not someone who's just.
Speaker: Reading a book. at five o 'clock on sunday afternoon right you know um for six weeks eight weeks whatever Um, But the the disciples.
Speaker: that we see. that followed Jesus, they followed... Jesus. yeah And so. They listened to his teaching. Um, But.
Speaker: date. it was put into practice. yeah um which is what you said uh it's not it's not just uh It's not just learning more theological terms, learning more Bible verses, learning more church words. Right. um it's It's learning how to take the truth of the Bible.
Speaker: We need to learn those things. we need to and you know We need to learn the terms. We need to learn the verses. But how do we take those and apply those to life? and how we live yeah that's right And I think, too. um That's going to happen certainly in the context of the church. And then in the context of the family. Yes. um So parents, I mean.
Speaker: Parents are the chief disciple makers. You know, you don't want to. You know, you hear the old stereotype of ah Mom takes the kids to church. Dad.
Speaker: you know, goes and plays golf or whatever the case may be. uh sometimes the parents are dropping the kids at church and they'll get their their religious training or moral training or whatever. In in church, and we're we're good.
Speaker: And. um No, we've we've abandoned. the the home as as one of the the one of the two chief disciple -making... Context.
Speaker: And of course, when you abandon. discipleship in the home and when you abandon commitment from Parents. And not just children, but commitment to the Lord. you you You know, then you got all kinds of problems that develop in that home.
Speaker: And that leads to instability and in homes. We'll get to that maybe in and in a different context as well. at least in disability and instability and in culture. as a whole. and so It's so important. You don't just go to.
Speaker: church on Sunday and get your. you know, your religious. you know your sacrament or your religious fix whatever you want to call it yep uh in in certain baptist circles uh gotta get right with god because i've been sinning all week so i got to get down in the altar on sunday Oof.
Speaker: Anyway. See you. You see church as this place to go. Because it's a religious duty or... And somehow that that that's what God wants me to do. But the rest of the week.
Speaker: There's no... you know, that thought of God. Well, that's the biggest problem. But let's say, okay, I'm thinking about God, but I'm not doing anything about it because I'm not training my children. or You know, parents ah husband and wives aren't. admonishing one another. and praying together and studying the scriptures together. Yeah, so those kind we've seen over the decades the rise of the youth group.
Speaker: yeah um in churches and and not necessarily throwing that entirely under the bus and and and and calling it all bad. But... so much of What? has come out of that is that Parents would.
Speaker: drop their kids off at youth group right and let the youth pastor Uh... Teach them and handle them. And... um Does that mean that there was never a good teaching that took place and and good discipleship that took place in your group? I'm not saying that. But again, there's an abandoning.
Speaker: of the primary role as mothers and fathers. to disciple our children. um And not just. farm it out to the youth pastor that's right who is most likely it's some 25 year old guy that just got out of seminary yeah who's still learning it all himself anyway right right exactly um and so um Yeah, again.
Speaker: We're not saying that... Churches having certain programs and doing these types of things are are inherently evil, right but when they are used as... the substitute for real discipleship. um then then they're falling very short of of what they should be. yeah um and And again, like you said, that that that needs to start in the home. That needs to start with...
Speaker: mothers and fathers who are believers. who are training their children up in the way that they should get. No, 100%.
Speaker: just Just by way of a reminder to... you know, to those who are listening. um We're talking about just this widespread moral collapse in our culture.
Speaker: Why are we here? How did we get here? And we're talking about... the the The church as a whole, and let's just say our culture. Withdrawing from culture.
Speaker: all right so now you don't have any Christian influence in a lot of major institutions. Now we're talking about Christians. Not. Not understanding or doing the hard work of discipling in the home.
Speaker: Um. training our children. to infiltrate culture. Be salt and light. right Taking responsibility ourselves to infiltrate culture, be salt and light. It's not just evangelism.
Speaker: It's everything. It's... it's yeah You know, getting a ah biblical worldview of economics, of business, of... softball of ah you know, the entertainment industry and infiltrating that.
Speaker: with, uh, a biblical worldview because Again, we've often said there's no neutrality. Everything everything comes from a worldview. Um, Every square inch of the universe belongs to Jesus. Right. And we need to to be.
Speaker: Salt and light. That's why that whole verse of salt and light is there. Hmm. So discipleship is a big thing, which makes me think of The Great Commission, of course, which makes me think of make disciples, but...
Speaker: Also, when I think of the Great Commission, I think of evangelism. And I think one of the big problems. And this has gone on. really for a long, long time. And I'm going to take it all the way back to the 1800s and Finneyism and all that.
Speaker: but superficial evangelism. So sort of. this emotional kind of... Yeah. I don't want to get into a history lesson here.
Speaker: But. yeah You know, evangelism was, you know, you would you would speak the word of God. and God would do a work. And if he didn't do a work, you keep praying.
Speaker: Maybe God does the work and you keep speaking, right? That's evangelism. You trust the Lord. Well, when you come to The 1800s and the Second Great Awakening. You get Charles Finney, and and he had a very different theology than...
Speaker: than what we're talking about. And he basically said, you know... salvation. And revival, he was talking about revival. it It's really the result of the right use of means. So if we can...
Speaker: Get people just to. physically move forward, take a step, then then they can come all the way to Christ. And the idea was you appeal to their emotions. You know, whatever it takes, you scare them to death or.
Speaker: Stir it up. Stir it up or talk about, you know, all the blessings, but you don't deal with sin too much. yeah and And you get them to walk an aisle and make a decision. Mm -hmm.
Speaker: and And then, hey, once they made that decision, they're saved. They're in the kingdom. And so this whole dynamic of revivalism developed out of that.
Speaker: And. And now for the last. you know, gosh a hundred 150 years or so. You had revivalism and emotional appeal and decisional regeneration. What is that? well You know, rather than God doing the work, if if you'll just... Pray this prayer. or Make a decision for Jesus. You'll be saved. Ask Jesus into your heart. Ask Jesus into your heart. Right. All that.
Speaker: You've had all of that for so long. Is it any wonder? that the church is so weak and filled with sinful. People. We're all sinners, but...
Speaker: People who are not being sanctified over time. and And then the surrounding culture and why. So -called Christians are influenced by the surrounding culture, and it's getting worse and worse and worse. Yeah, and again, this is related to that individual.
Speaker: Privatized Pietism. that we talked about before because when you boil uh, that. salvation into an emotional experience. that you've had.
Speaker: um then... Yeah, that is something private. That's just that's my emotional experience that I've had and your emotional experience might be different than mine yeah And then you, you know, again, you just keep going down that road. well I haven't.
Speaker: felt that kind of emotion in a long time since I walked that aisle when I was six years old. you know, or whatever. And so. you know I need to have that.
Speaker: emotional experience again to make sure it was real you know because We all know. Deep down, we can't fully trust our emotions. So you know did i did i did I actually feel it right that time? Do I need to do it again? yeah you know Do I need to rededicate my life? right you know Do I need to get saved again? And all of these things.
Speaker: And in. So. you've now cheapened salvation in the gospel into an emotional experience. yeah And again, that also...
Speaker: Now opens the door to bring in otherworldly influence. Because... These other worldly means now can be used to stir up an emotional response, right? yeah and so we're getting further and further away from the truth of god's word can can Can you have an emotional response to the truth of God's word? Absolutely. um can Can you be...
Speaker: can you weep over your sinfulness and and and and or weep over The beauty of the grace of what God has done. Yeah. Yes, absolutely. But. That's...
Speaker: That's a result of a spiritual work that's taking place. Yes. It's not the goal that we're going for is to have that emotional response. Yeah. um And when that becomes the focus.
Speaker: then Again, by the use of means. by any means necessary at times you may try to stir that up and so again you get further and further away from the truth and from the bible from the gospel yeah and and you start letting things into the church that have no business being here. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker: And it all adds up. And when you have that kind of milieu, we'll say, or that mix. Yeah, then there's this downplay on sound doctrine. Don't eat sound doctrine.
Speaker: and then it's like well we don't have sound doctrine and then we don't apply it to our heart We, uh... We don't have a full or biblical worldview. on ah what life is about and vocation is about, the sacred -secular divide, all the things we've mentioned so far.
Speaker: Um, yeah you're automatically going to adopt the worldview of the surrounding culture. And so, again, we're being trampled upon. You know, we've lost our flavor.
Speaker: and And we're being thrown on the ground and trampled upon. And and you know I think these are some of the big things that... That, um... You know, we have to realize, and and we're not just throwing rocks at others. We're saying, hey.
Speaker: Let's all of us wake up. and let's engage in biblical evangelism. Let's engage in biblical discipleship. Training. uh, our children. and And that means again, dealing with the heart.
Speaker: Teaching them ethics. And. Yo. what What is a biblical worldview of? Life. And, and. I mean, just this week you've got... um this This tragic incident incident where a man was mauled by a tiger. And I don't know, have you have you heard about this? I have not. Okay, well, some man, and I don't know all the details.
Speaker: But he jumped into... I guess it was a... And it was one of those large zoos where they have the big habitat. okay And I don't know if the man... okay Excuse me. I don't know if he had.
Speaker: Some mental. uh challenges there ah Some. Folk had indicated again, I don't have any of the details, but. He's in there. And he apparently loves tigers.
Speaker: And it it appeared that he didn't have any fear or notion that tigers were dangerous. And so the tiger ended up mauling him and killing him. It's just so tragic. wow and um the the discussion was you know should they have shot the tiger etc Well, apparently, and again. this The story, I think, is fluid because I'm just getting bitten to bits and pieces. I don't know all the details.
Speaker: But let's just assume for the sake of argument that. that they couldn't get there in time it happened so quick so we're not blaming Anybody. Should the man not have been in the the habitat? No, he shouldn't have. Right. But if he's minimally challenged, okay.
Speaker: Um, But the question for me is. Had there been. Oh. opportunity. to shoot the tiger. To save the man' to save the man's life. yeah then yes, of course, you do that. But now the debate...
Speaker: Excuse me. That's the debate now. I cannot believe the number of people who are talking about how. The man was stupid. You can't shoot the tiger because of his stupidity.
Speaker: ah You can't shoot the tiger. He's a beautiful animal. Who says that? human beings have more value or worth than than tigers you know tigers are On and on and on. Mm hmm.
Speaker: and And this is our culture. I remember a few years ago, we had an incident with a gorilla and it was very similar. But it seems like it's worse now. And. I just have to wonder. How many Christians...
Speaker: Or wrestling with. ah Oh, my gosh. Well, should we really shoot that? big beautiful animal i mean this guy was you know, whatever and And no, you always save.
Speaker: The human being, because. He's created in the image of God. right He's a human being. We're different from the animals. we We're not supposed to be cruel to animals. We're not supposed to... Um,
Speaker: You know, obviously we can. kill animals for food the bible's pretty clear about that and but at the same time um I would have zero. problem putting down the tiger if it would save a person's life sure right yeah anyway I don't know why I brought that up Other than just... um yeah Oh, you got to teach your children.
Speaker: Not only... you know, Bible verses, like you were saying. But, you know, worldview issues and and and ethics and... And it's not just, okay, well, we believe this. Why do we believe this? why why would i Why would I not hesitate to shoot the tiger when a lot of other people would say, ah.
Speaker: No, we can't shoot the tiger. Well, image of God, you know. that That's the main thing. so we have Essential dignity. you know, a value that, that animals don't have. so Anyway, um hmm So when we...
Speaker: when we abandon you know discipleship and training. You know, we we'd lose biblical literacy. among church people. Yeah.
Speaker: I mean, how many Christians have you met And I'm not being ugly, but that that don't seem to know much about the Bible. I'm not saying they have to be. you know, the chief theologian in their neighborhood. but You got to know something about the Bible if you didn't get a bit Christian. Yeah. Right. I saw one of those like men on the street.
Speaker: kind of videos a while back. And they were asking. people And I think it might have even been specifically asking. Churchgoers.
Speaker: Um, Is this... a proverb. Or is it from Star Wars? ah and And they would read, they would read something off. and yeah And they... Didn't get them right. Oh my goodness.
Speaker: And so, yeah, and again, okay, so talk about. the influence of the world. yeah you know uh affecting um our our thinking yeah and we can't even tell the difference between Um,
Speaker: the who the The Jedi mindset, which was, you know, which is based in new age and Eastern mysticism, right? yeah Versus the Proverbs. Right. Oh, terrible, terrible.
Speaker: Do you remember a few years ago? It's probably been a lot of years ago now. Gosh, anyway, where a couple of sociologists came out with this. moral therapeutic deism. that That's sort of a label they put on where a lot of ah people, and including Christians, are in our culture, and it's the notion that Well, yeah, God's real and God wants us to be good people. There's the moral part.
Speaker: But he wants us to. you know to be happy and feel good about ourselves. That's the therapeutic part. And he's really not that involved in our lives. and We don't really need to worry about it, except unless we're in trouble, then we can call on him and he'll help out. And that's kind of the mindset.
Speaker: Again, you got... all kinds of isms out there now, but yeah but that was... ah sort of their assessment of of the larger culture. um This is probably 25, 30 years ago now. That's how long ago it is. but Again, we're not talking about just what's happening now. This has been.
Speaker: This, this. slow erosion over time of the Christian worldview in our culture. we We use that term all the time, the erosion of the Christian worldview. And it has been eroding, but... you know it's it's It's being eroded faster and faster. Because we have less and less Christians. Yeah, this is, this is um again, not to get...
Speaker: Too awful to a tangent, but this is... The results of... uh post -modernism yeah um taking hold in in modern thought. um that essentially to boil it all down. um says that there's no such thing as absolute truth. um And and i I would even say that I think now.
Speaker: uh, where we are today, we're in a post postmodern, um, i think I think critical theory and and and woke. um Thinking.
Speaker: Um, is the next progression beyond post -modernism. Post -modernism essentially would say that there's no such thing as truth. You've got your truth. I've got my truth. You live your truth. I'll live my truth.
Speaker: To. But now, you know, it's it's actually gone. further beyond that yeah um to where it's it's not just um a subjective thing of you can live your truth and I can live my truth.
Speaker: um But that's... the dynamic of power. determines what truth is yeah and your truth has to fall in line with the dynamic of power yeah and if it doesn't then you're going to be canceled you might have be killed you know whatever um And so.
Speaker: Now. Really, it's it's kind of swung back to where they would argue that there is an absolute. um, And. Uh... even though that absolutely can change. Yeah. But there is there is a a a one way of thinking, and if you don't line up with that.
Speaker: then you're in trouble right you know um because uh you're you're You're challenging. the power that's right that's right um but yeah Again, we've ended up here Because we've walked away from absolute truth. Yeah, that's exactly right. and And again, that. that is in direct opposition to the Bible, to Scripture, um that that we do believe that there is an objective.
Speaker: unchanging truth. And then that truth is God himself. And he's revealed that truth through his word. um and And when we say there is no objective truth, we're abandoning that. We're walking away from it. And we find ourselves in Romans 1, which I feel like what we're living in.
Speaker: Now. to where we are being given over. Yeah. To all kinds of. wayward thinking and living. Yeah. And one of the things we lament so often is the the state.
Speaker: I'm talking about ah government. and just say the whichever it's, whether it's a... ah state government or federal government, but I'm talking about... the state versus government there's legitimate governance but the state arrogates power to itself And so we've we've lamented for a long, long time that...
Speaker: The state is... is it It is doing just that, irrigating more and more power so it's involved in every area of our lives. and And one of the things you go way back when where. Christians, again, with this abandonment of all of these cultural institutions They've sort of left government to the.
Speaker: you know, to the non -Christians. And one of the things that government has taken over is education. So we've left that to non -Christians. I'm just saying in general, in large measure. I know your wife teaches at a Christian school. Um,
Speaker: But if Christians... say Say right now, if you send an army of Christian teachers into the public schools, But at the same time, you've got to send the legislators. Mm hmm.
Speaker: an army of Christian legislators who are Christians into the government as well. But I'm saying... one of the One of the primary... places that...
Speaker: What you're talking about, I'm just going to use the term woke culture now. ah is They're getting it. in education, right particularly higher education. yeah more I would say more than... And again, I'm i'm ignorant. i'm not I'm too old. I don't know what's going on in elementary school. And we see it filtering further and further down yeah um in the ranks of education, yeah as it were. um And, and that is we are now seeing Uh...
Speaker: where the progression is taking us. um Because... you know, Years ago. you could still be an open Christian.
Speaker: Uh... and be a teacher in the public schools. um Separation of church and state, all of that, yes, that existed. and you know you couldn't proselytize or whatever um But you could still be an open Christian. You could still even have conversations. Maybe you couldn't.
Speaker: Teach it. per se, but if it was brought up, you could have those conversations. But as we progress more and more, because... Christians have pulled away from that. Yes. Now it has gotten to the point to where from the top down.
Speaker: Um... It's... It's completely forbidden. Oh, yeah. you You can't. You can't. Be a Christian. in the in the public education system. Yeah. um It's...
Speaker: it's It's punished. It's frowned upon. It's it's shunned. yeah um and so Um, you know That's why. A lot of... Christians who... feel called into education.
Speaker: Um... Have... maybe abandoned. ah Public education. Yeah. um Because. they They have no voice anymore. Yeah, no, that's right. And so um they'll they'll go somewhere where they do still at least have the freedom.
Speaker: to to talk about the things of the Lord with with these young people that they're trying to teach. Yeah, so important. and And then with reference to higher education. I do know there are some Christians there, but they're a distinct minority. And it's for the same reason you're saying.
Speaker: And in higher education, it's... it um It's... Politics has taken over. Yes. and And it's because of that. pagan worldview, whichever. the soup du jour you know the the worldview du jour you know and um I was just thinking, I didn't do a whole lot of research on this, but I don't i think most of us, and maybe maybe you haven't.
Speaker: It just depends on, you know, I i have an ex. I just. That's kind of where I get most of my news. I just look at X a little bit every day. I try not to. Doom scroll. Oh my gosh. Anyway. um But have you heard of the Cornell 7 thing? Okay.
Speaker: I don't necessarily want to talk about that, but one of the things. And this is where the moral morals of our culture are. And this is the frightening thing. um That would have been unheard of when I was in in school. And let me tell you something.
Speaker: When I was in in college. Uh... stuff was happening there that i was shocked by i was like what in the world is this i mean Boy George, for example, came out when I was in college. But anyway. um I'm just using that as a thing. An example.
Speaker: Um, But one of the things that that i I saw. was um The... Somebody had written this. I don't know if it was a reporter or somebody.
Speaker: But... They were. Cornell, they're teaching. They... they ah And I don't know if it's in the classroom or. If it's part of their orientation, I think it's part of the orientation.
Speaker: I don't know. But I do know. that these students are being taught. Uh... about human sexuality and how It's good to experiment. It's good to.
Speaker: you know, experience a threesome. I mean, I i won't even go any further than that. right right All kinds of... debased ah teaching yeah and and then they're surprised right yeah and and in and and to the point that you're making Again, we're not we're not weighing in today on...
Speaker: who was right, who was wrong in that situation. what should happen, all of that. Just the very fact that that. situation in general. could even happen yeah would have been Completely shocking.
Speaker: Not that. far back in then in in the past. Right. um But now... the fact that it that it could even happen. is where we are yeah um And then you add on.
Speaker: the the moral ambiguity of the situation. that that we're seeing play out in the media. um is uh Again, it's it's it's heartbreaking.
Speaker: To see that that's that's where we are. Yeah. But again. as christians What do we do about that? Yeah, exactly. That's the question. Whether you're talking about that, whether you're talking about the breakdown of the family.
Speaker: no -fault divorce, um the the gender theories and all that. I mean, we could cite all kinds of things going on in our culture. yeah how do How do we let ourselves get to the point?
Speaker: To where. a college professor or whoever. is encouraging. our 18 and 19 year old sons and daughters. That.
Speaker: Sexual experimentation is a good thing and should be explored. Yeah. How how how how do we how have we let ourselves get to that point? And again, the back all the way up. you know.
Speaker: Obviously. Are we as parents doing? The job we're supposed to be doing. right um To where... If, if... If one of my daughters happened to be at a school and something like that was said...
Speaker: If I had done my job well enough to where they'd stand up and say, no, this is crazy. That's right. This is ridiculous. This is evil. Yeah. um I would hope so. yeah um But but that's that's what we've all got to be working towards as believers. as Fathers and husbands. yes uh members of society um and again it's it all starts in the home Yeah. um And.
Speaker: the The church can't have influence. over the world if if we're not having Influence as christian fathers that's right in our homes to begin with yeah so yeah it's probably the the biggest place where it starts christian fathers you just said it So Christian influence in the home and then to take it back to the larger.
Speaker: Church. One of the things, and we'll just kind of dive for the finish here. We've got to get rid of this consumeristic church mindset. Word. church is just this this thing that offers different services for different people. yeah um The entertainment.
Speaker: All of that stuff. we we Church is where the the people of God gather. to to worship God and to experience genuine biblical fellowship with one another.
Speaker: to admonish one another. to Burr one another on to love and good works. uh train and you go back and you're training in the home and then we send everybody out that Those are the things that...
Speaker: That we need to be focused on, of course, everything. All all of the problems that we've been mentioning today, we've just got to reverse them. just to put it in a nutshell. And then two, I think. the the The pastors, those who are in the pulpit.
Speaker: they they've They've got to be willing to to step up. I'm pointing the finger right back at myself. We're elders and in our church. and um we we we We've... we We can't.
Speaker: We can't um abandon. the faithful. Preaching and teaching of God's word. right and and and dealing with the text in context, applying it to ourselves.
Speaker: We got to get rid of the. The the the. i don't know the ted talks type sermons the you know the sermons of you know how to how to succeed in life, how to succeed in your business. it There's some application there from time to time. Let's self -help talk with a few Bible verses. sprinkled in. yeah um Yeah, no, we need to be.
Speaker: faithfully expositing and teaching. God's word. and and teaching it. And. In the aspect that. It... this This is the words of life. Yeah. And this has influence over how we live our lives. Yeah. It's not it's not just.
Speaker: you know, a few Proverbs that I can memorize that'll that'll help me. Phil. good about my day or or whatever. and And. You know.
Speaker: Oh, me, me. Man, none of our church members would be the ones that get interviewed and can't tell the difference between a Bible verse and and a quote from Star Wars. Yeah. um I'd have to resign. We definitely would be falling falling down on our job yeah um if if that were the case. And and again.
Speaker: Each individual is is accountable. for uh their own walk yeah but um but yeah as churches as as leaders In the church, um we need to be faithfully...
Speaker: preaching the word and and and proclaiming the gospel. um in in its full biblical ah form. Um, And, and.
Speaker: emphasizing to ah to our people. that, uh, this This has an effect on how you live your life. This isn't just some privatized faith. It's not just some emotional experience you've had.
Speaker: It's not my private pietism. um This. This is the very words of life. It's what Moses said, right, to the people. um these these These are the words of life.
Speaker: Yeah. um and And what happened when Israel abandoned those words of life? They they they fell under judgment. Yeah. um And so. Again, learn from the past or we're doomed to repeat it.
Speaker: That's not scripture. Yeah. yeah Wait. Learn from the past. or didn't probably Yeah, yeah, yeah. um But. um but it But it is a true statement. um and And so, yes, we need we need a greater commitment.
Speaker: ah to the word of God yeah and and to letting it. Influence. how we live our lives and not just be something that we do on Sunday. and and And here's something that makes us feel good.
Speaker: and charges us up for the week. um But that that truly. uh, causes us to deal with our sin and deal with our own hearts. on a daily basis. yeah yeah and And taking the issues of our culture on head on you know with our culture. congregations and our families. and Not just to...
Speaker: you know, throw rocks and say, look at those wicked people out there. say here Thus saith the Lord, and here's why. and And help. uh one another to be able to engage.
Speaker: Uh... at a worldview level with with folk out out in the world i was watching uh I was reading something recently where... Um, I don't even know who it was, but there was a brief little.
Speaker: conversation. uh the the one One person was a homosexual, the other was a... I don't know if he's a believer or not, but it's conservative. And, and he was talking about God created male and female and the others. Well, why, why can't a man marry a man? and and and and And did okay, but he kind of broke down at the very end and and didn't know how to answer this or that.
Speaker: And. To me, it's just a micro... Cosm little example. okay we've got some work to do we've got some work to do to train ourselves to train our children to train our church members and church has to Step up, do exactly what you said. You said it perfectly. We believe that the word of God.
Speaker: has an answer the answer for every aspect of life for every aspect of civilization of society. of morality.
Speaker: um of of all of those things. And... So... We... need to learn. How? Do we... ah Because...
Speaker: the evil. The wicked are are going to be wicked. There's going to be those ebbs and flows as we talked about at the at the at the onset. um and and And we're going to see. we're going to see The wicked rise at times.
Speaker: but Even more so in those times. How do we take the Word of God? and apply it. in each and every one of those situations how do we answer ah the things that the world is saying.
Speaker: um from Scripture. um And how do we live that out? um in a way that glorifies him and advances his kingdom. Yeah. Because with every ebb, there will be a flow. Amen. Because the gospel...
Speaker: Always overcomes. Always overcomes. That's right. Alright. I'm... That's all I got. Alright, and we'll see you next time. on Answering Pilot. The Answering Pilot Podcast is a ministry of Randall House Church in Greer, South Carolina.
Speaker: You can learn more RandallHouseBeer .com slash church. You can also find us on Facebook and Instagram at at Randall House Church. Don't forget to like and subscribe.
Speaker: and we'll see you next time.
