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Therapy, Trees, and Transformation with Jessie Cockerham #37
52 Plays1 month ago
In this episode, Co-hosts Mattie Bynum and Kate d'Adamo sit down with Jessie Cockerham, a therapist and founder of Wolf’s Refuge Counseling and Healing Services in North Carolina. Jessie shares how growing up in Appalachia shaped their understanding of trauma, survival, and community care—and what it means to heal in the same places that harmed you. They break down modalities like DBT and EMDR in plain language, with a focus on helping LGBTQ+ and BIPOC clients peel back protective layers built for survival. Jessie also introduces eco-therapy practices that reconnect people to nature as a living relationship, not just a backdrop. The conversation closes with practical grounding tools for staying regulated in a political climate designed to keep us in fear.
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Transcript
Jesse's Background and Motivation
00:00:00
Speaker
I kind of grew up in the Appalachian culture and recognized that something was wrong with the village and that led me to start my first job in social work working at a group home and working with at-risk youths and seeing lives through our eyes and I learned a lot about trauma. What keeps me going is to know that I am making impact regardless if it is on the individual scale and sometimes with my educational pieces through TikTok and on social media I am making a larger impact but I think that's what keeps me going is those small stories of I made this small change.
Podcast and Guest Introductions
00:00:35
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Power Beyond Pride, a weekly queer change making podcast bringing you voices and ideas from across our fierce and fabulous spectrum to transform our world.
00:00:46
Speaker
My name is Maddie Bynum. I am the hostess with the mostest TV personality, comedian and all around just a joy to be with. I am here tonight joined by my lovely host co-host Kate. And Kate, would you like to introduce yourself?
00:00:58
Speaker
Absolutely. Hello, I'm Kate, your resident high-hard femme, and we're your co-hosts on today's Queer Cash Journey. In this episode, we're talking to the power-packed, multi-talented counselor and therapist, Jesse Cockerham, MSW, LCSW, Yusui Holy Fire, and Karuna Reiki Master from Mount Airy in North Carolina. Welcome.
00:01:19
Speaker
Yes, welcome. So good old Mount Airy is in the building. Yeah. How's the weather up there? It was hot today. It was so muggy. Even though we we're in the mountains, still gets hot.
00:01:32
Speaker
North Carolina is one of those states that it doesn't matter how everybody else feels. We get the converge of every season and every weather system. So it could be, i it was funny yesterday, I think it was 82 degrees and my cousin was like, oh, it's not bad. I said, well, the heat index is the actually 90.
00:01:49
Speaker
So it's still bad. And we get to experience all four seasons within weeks of dots.
Jesse's Counseling Approach
00:01:55
Speaker
So, Jessie, thank you for taking the time to join us today. So I definitely want to get jump right in and get started.
00:02:00
Speaker
You started the World Rescue Counseling and Healing Services that provides a lot of specialized services like DBT, EMDR counseling that support the LGBTQ plus and BIPOC individuals.
00:02:16
Speaker
How did you embark on this journey and what drives you? That's a big question, I guess, to start with. um What kind of made me embark on this journey was this idea of I kind of grew up in the Appalachian culture here in Mount A recognized that something was wrong with the village, I guess, essentially.
00:02:37
Speaker
And that led me to start my first job in social work as a working at a group home and working with at-risk youth and seeing lives through our eyes.
00:02:48
Speaker
And I learned a lot about trauma and that stuff started my path for the Wolf's Refuge and kind of counseling in general. And what keeps me going,
00:03:02
Speaker
is to know that i I am making impact regardless if it is on the individual scale. And sometimes with my educational pieces through TikTok and on social media, I am making a larger impact. But I think that's what keeps me going is those small stories of, I made this small change. And so...
00:03:20
Speaker
That's beautiful. And so we heard a lot of kind of alphabet soup in there. You practice DBT, EMDR. For folks who may not know about that, can you just tell us a little bit about your philosophy behind counseling and the way that you approach it kind of more generally?
00:03:38
Speaker
Yeah, so in therapy, my direct approach is to be very person-centered, strength-based. But DBT or dialectical behavioral therapy and EMDR or eye movement desensitization and reprocessing put different lenses down on what that looks like and then bring in ecotherapy. And I am looking as a radical as you can as a therapist.
00:04:02
Speaker
But so just on a basis, DBT I look at you as a human and you come in. I know you have different things going on in your life and you kind of tell me what's going on. And I look at you through a lens of the four stages.
00:04:16
Speaker
And so stage one, the house is on fire. Or stage two, we're just dealing with a lot of trauma. Or stage three, you're just dealing with life and trying to figure out what that means to you,
Therapy's Role in Identity and Healing
00:04:26
Speaker
values and stuff. And then lastly, stage four is, do you want to explore what spirituality looks like to you? Do you want to explore the meaning of life and what that might look like differently for you?
00:04:35
Speaker
So I interweave the other two modalities, NDR and ecotherapy in throughout that process. But my goal is you are, it's your journey. I cannot tell you where to go. i can't tell you what that's going to look like.
00:04:49
Speaker
I, it's up to you. I definitely understand that. I know counseling is something that's really near and dear to you. So how do you think that this benefits the LGBT community?
00:05:01
Speaker
Ooh, that's a good question, especially since mental health has always been used to stigmatize to not only the LGBTQIA2S plus spirited community, but also to BIPOC individuals as well.
00:05:18
Speaker
And so I always keep that in mind as people approach it me and ask questions about mental health. But... I think the thing that I recognize working with people who are ah queer identifying or BIPOC identifying is that we've created so many layers to protect ourselves in the society because, well, at least for my generation and older, it's we had to survive.
00:05:44
Speaker
especially in these rural areas in North Carolina. And so it's like peeling back those things. What does self truly look like? What does it look like to be your independent self and without shame, without fear? And that's a lot of what I do.
00:05:59
Speaker
makes sense. And that makes sense why that question, how do you be your kind of true authentic self, is so important for queer folks and queer communities.
00:06:10
Speaker
If I can ask a personal question, How did your own queer journey kind of inform that work? Oh, that is a good question. So growing up in the South, in the rural South, I definitely created so many different layers for myself just to survive. I had a father literally looked at me one day and said that he would kill the estler if he ever knew one. And so I knew right there quickly that things weren't safe where I lived.
00:06:39
Speaker
And so wasn't until... I had a conversation with a friend in the restaurant environment I was working at, and he was like, you're being really an homophobic. And because he was from presenting and free with himself, and I was just like, my world started to shift. I was like, me? How can I be homophobic?
00:06:58
Speaker
but And so through that process, once I got into social work and I learned about decolonizing therapy and decolonizing and deconstructing oneself,
00:07:09
Speaker
I started to recognize like these layers that I had put on top of myself to survive. And I still do to an extent just because i am in the South again, but I'm learning how to rip that off. That is, that's been my own journey and that's how it's informed my practice so that I can sit there as a therapist. I have to know who I am on a deeper level in order to go deeper with you.
00:07:32
Speaker
If you don't mind me asking, what does that look like? Because it's interesting that you brought that up because I actually had a friend say that to me as well years ago because I had learned to adapt my mind or I would say I learned to adapt my thinking to being human.
00:07:51
Speaker
Closed minded, but not intentionally being closed minded. Does that make sense? I was like you, like I didn't realize I was even being closed minded towards people because in the South, you learn to assimilate to what you have. So that way, I remember one of my family members told me one time, they was like, it's OK to be gay. Just don't do gay shit.
00:08:07
Speaker
was And so after hearing those statements, it was just like, OK, well, I either have to be the best woman I know how to be or I have to be the best man I know how to be. So that way I don't stick out. And in the process of that, I started realizing that I was I was actually being homophobic or disrespectful to other members of the community. So how do you work through that? by How do you deal with that?
00:08:32
Speaker
Thank you for sharing that. I think a lot of people have heard that, that statement of don't bring that around me. um So thank you for sharing. And for me, two things really took me in a different prison direction. So I remember when I started at State and I got to do my first research research paper on whatever I wanted to.
00:08:51
Speaker
And it was, I chose the topic, is the identity of gay genetic or is it something we choose? And like through research, there's a lot of research showing that this is something that can be genetic, even through like different ways of like so people and hormones and stuff.
Therapeutic Techniques and Ecotherapy
00:09:12
Speaker
So that was one. And then my other one is when I started ecotherapy, that has probably been the biggest eye opening for me to recognize how queer nature is like mushrooms, for example, a millions of genders and genes and sexes and
00:09:30
Speaker
all these things. And then there's monkeys who participate in pansexual group orgies. And it was just like, what is going on? And then it just, for me, it was, I was like, this is so natural. This is what's happening in everyday life.
00:09:45
Speaker
So it's helped kind of build that back. And it's constantly self-reflection. i think that's the key to it anymore. A lot of people, a lot of people struggle with that to self-reflect, but especially bringing in especially when white queer men struggle or to do that piece showing up in this community. You get some very large head nods for everyone who can't see us right now.
00:10:11
Speaker
It so deeply resonates, and I know that resonates the way that we learn our own homophobia. We internalize our own homophobia, and then we project it to others to try to feel a little bit better and with that tension in ourselves. And and it hurts so much, especially the inner community piece.
00:10:28
Speaker
And so in kind of in when you were talking about that, really naming that trauma. And I know the EMDR is also kind of a trauma response. Could you talk a little bit about the way that trauma shows up, especially around those internalized pieces?
00:10:46
Speaker
Yeah. So EMDR and IFS, another piece that I do have started to learn, or internal family systems, kind of looks at how our society has created layer these layers, I guess,
00:11:04
Speaker
How can I say this? So like, for example, for me, when I was living with my living in the household, I learned through traumatic lenses of, okay, this is what's safe. This is what's maleness. This is what is appropriate.
00:11:19
Speaker
And so I'm learning that in my own EMDR therapy has been like, Well, what did I have to recognize in the other individual that made me mad? What is it about other individuals that is making me uncomfortable?
00:11:34
Speaker
Because that's something that I learned somewhere along the way, either through religious upbringing or toxic masculinity. There was these things that kept showing up in my own therapy.
00:11:46
Speaker
I am enjoying this conversation because I tell you right now, you have me actually doing some therapy right now. I don't know, Kate, if you are actually having us do some inner therapy in this particular episode, but Jesse, you are really making me sit with myself right now.
00:12:00
Speaker
However, I do need a ton of people at home. I need y'all to go sit with yourselves for about two minutes so we can go and pay these bills. And when we come back, we're going to keep talking about how to... deal with yourself do self-reflection and we're going to embark on ecotherapy because that sounds very interesting to me i know where my mind goes with it but i know that's not where it's actually supposed to go so when we come back we'll discuss that we'll be right back
00:12:31
Speaker
Welcome back. This is Power Beyond Pride, a queer change-making podcast. I am Maddie Bynum here with my co-host, Kate, and we are talking to the amazing Jesse Cocker. We are having the most an amazing, intense conversation about therapy. And Kate, I think you have the next question.
00:12:50
Speaker
Yeah. So I wanted to go back to how gay nature is. Ecotherapy was something that you mentioned. Could you share a little bit about what that is? Ecotherapy has become one of my biggest passions because of the principle and the idea behind it believes because society and capitalism has cut us off from our connection to the world
Community Influence and Resilience
00:13:14
Speaker
and to the earth, we've created our own disease.
00:13:18
Speaker
but Our disease with ourselves, disease with nature, and that's leading us to have chronic diseases, anxiety, depression, a whole host of trauma. And so with that principle, what I do and what ecotherapists kind of lead us, lead anyone through is trying to figure out how to reconnect back to nature and see it as another living being.
00:13:42
Speaker
So for example, one of my favorite practices is getting people to get permission from a tree to go under its leaves and then touch the tree with a so sensory somatic.
00:13:54
Speaker
experience because you're touching the tree, you're feeling it. And then that's when we go inside. And what is it that you feel as you connect with the tree? And then allowing the connection to come through as the tree speaks to you in its own way.
00:14:07
Speaker
And so it's, for some people, it sounds a little loop, but it's the idea of what indigenous people have always told us. Nature's alive. It has its own personality. It has its own needs. um And we just have to connect into it.
00:14:21
Speaker
That makes sense. And i I think what you really mean is to Western white folks, it sounds woo. Because I think to a lot of the rest of us, actually sitting down and connecting with our land, is that sounds like the exact way to grow and heal. Yeah.
00:14:34
Speaker
It definitely is. Now, I might sound a little when I ask this question, but how do you get the permission from the tree? Does the tree just extend? Like when you said that I thought of Pocahontas, the old Disney movie with the weeping willow that came to life. So how does that could you talk us through just a little bit? How does that work?
00:14:52
Speaker
Yeah, we're using different types of scientific tools. So electromagnetism tools. I know I just butchered that. But like you're finding that there's like resonance and energy coming off trees through electromagnetic waves.
00:15:09
Speaker
And then ions are being shut ions and electrons are being shared between us and the Earth with bare feet. Oops. But so permission with the tree. So giving that little background, the idea is you're going to stand at the tree line and you're just going to hold yourself and kind of go within and just try to quiet the mind. And then you're going to look at the tree. And the idea is to say, i would like to connect with you. Is that okay?
00:15:37
Speaker
And then you just kind of quietly listen to that yes or no. But you have to allow the no. As humans, we like to think that we're... We're the center of the world. And sometimes that that dilutes that yes or no. And so just being patient and allowing the no that comes, it's there.
00:15:53
Speaker
Allowing the yes, if it's there. That's very interesting. I definitely want to try that. And i actually, it's funny that you said that this is one your passions, because my next question was to ask you, what are some of your passion projects that you work on? So I would say, is there more that you like to work with as well?
00:16:08
Speaker
um my biggest thing is always trauma. Trauma is what got me into this work and it will continue to get me into this work. But the other things that I've come to love in therapy outside of eco, eco therapy is, um,
00:16:22
Speaker
a spoken word. So being able to write poetry or writing narratives and then using that to find ways to heal has been really impactful and even in my own journey because i have a spoken word community here in Mount Air that I go to and I use that rage and depression that I get from my clients and lay it out there and then the people of Mount Air get to hear me roar and I always encourage it for my clients and anyone who is looking for a way to find their voice.
00:16:53
Speaker
So in what we've been talking about, you've expressed so many things about land and about nature and about community. And you're from Appalachia. So how does being from that beautiful space, that beautiful land, those roots, how does that inform your work and what you do?
00:17:12
Speaker
I think the Appalachians, the mountains is really what brought me to ecotherapy. The idea, i've had a couple of friends who live from there and we leave and it' we talk about how this place, how these mountains have a hold on us and they always call us back home.
00:17:27
Speaker
It's so weird to have that connection and just have that feeling of this is something I don't want to leave or I can't leave for too long. But also within that, um I think the community aspect while I was growing up was always there.
00:17:44
Speaker
I remember running around at Chicken Stews
00:17:50
Speaker
pancake breakfasts to fundraise for individuals and fundraise to help people maybe who couldn't pay bills or had medical process procedures done and they couldn't afford them.
00:18:02
Speaker
a lot of that's gone now because I think due to certain circumstances, smaller communities are starting to dwindle. But it's different here, I guess.
00:18:14
Speaker
And understanding that the Appalachians was like where oppressed people went to find refuge has also learning that information. Don't get me wrong. There are some places I would never go in the Appalachian Mountains. But knowing that history is there and then there's this whole group of people called the Melungeons, it also informs my practice because it's it's possible. It's impossible for all of us to come together and create community and be our best selves.
00:18:44
Speaker
I definitely remember as a kid growing up going to the Kiwanis pancake breakfasts for $6 to raise money for the different organizations in the community. But working in therapy and dealing with people who have different types of trauma, how do you handle whenever a patient is combative or not receiving the therapy tools? Like, how do you deal with that?
00:19:08
Speaker
Yeah, that is, i think, an everyday struggle sometimes because But it also is humbling because I have to remember, i am not the master of their life. I am here as a person who does have tools and you can accept them or not. And you can find your own tools.
00:19:27
Speaker
And if you come to me and you tell me you use this tool and it didn't work out that well, okay. If I give you a tool you're like, it didn't work for me, I'm going to be like, you probably, there's probably some issues there, but I'm going to be like, okay, this is your journey. i don't, can't force my own beliefs on you. I can't force anything on you because if I did, then I wouldn't be doing what my predecessors have always done.
Managing Resistance and Breaking Trauma Cycles
00:19:52
Speaker
So it's, ah sometimes it's hard because like I have clients that are like floundering and trying their best to figure out life. So I'm just like, take my hand and we can do this.
00:20:04
Speaker
But on the other hand, it's just like, nope, I want to flounder for a little while longer. and I'm like, okay, I'm due here when you're ready. it Do you have to tell sometimes I tell people just trust me and trust the process?
00:20:18
Speaker
yeah Oh, especially when it comes to trauma therapy, yes, because it's like people don't want to address these deep, dark things. It's hard, right? To go back and face what some call demons, to face what some call this big black darkness, it's scary.
00:20:33
Speaker
And i think to do it is really brave. I think to do it is ah may means that you want to end curses on your life and your family. You want to break these cycles that have been put on you.
00:20:47
Speaker
And those pieces are really beautiful. And so when they get resistant and they push back, I'm like, it makes sense. You're scared. And I'm here to walk with you in that scared, like that seer.
00:20:59
Speaker
And so then they'll- do No, was going to say, I think the hardest thing is to actually admit that you have trauma, especially when you... I'm not going to say this is just localized in the South, but in the South, we have learned to adapt to trauma.
00:21:13
Speaker
I remember growing up and dealing with things and it was, we don't discuss that. That's not a topic you talk about. So you learn. So then as you get older... It's like when someone tells you that you have trauma, it's almost, no, I don't. I'm good. I'm fine.
00:21:27
Speaker
But to actually sit with it and realize it this is why I'm not a therapist. Because, yeah, I couldn't deal with people in their own trauma. I have enough of my own. and I think you're right. And they're calling out what we talk about in trauma therapy is capitalism doesn't give us time.
00:21:44
Speaker
and Capitalism tells us like, no, you got to keep going. You got to keep moving. And been in the South where it was just like you had there so many people were focused on survival, especially BIPOC communities and people here in the mountains or people in poverty where every day you didn't know if you going to live.
00:22:02
Speaker
You didn't have time. And so now as we've moved into this journey into these later generations, we're finding time. But now all the other generations are pushing back and, but no, don't do that. What are you doing? You're disrupting stuff. Don't work. You're you're woke. What are you doing? Mm-hmm.
00:22:20
Speaker
And I just want to uplift like calling generational trauma curses and really just naming that this is about, yeah, this is about breaking family curses.
00:22:33
Speaker
And I love how you're thinking about and talking about trauma. And a lot of what we've talked about is really one-on-one in terms of how we've talked about therapy. Yeah. What do you think of the role of therapy, especially when we're talking about things like community building and coming together and doing the kind of collective solidarity work that we all desperately need right now?
00:22:55
Speaker
Well, I think one, it does call to this intergenerational piece. It's so interesting to sit down with people and, hey, where do you, like, if you can, if you have the privilege of knowing where your family comes, let's explore that. And here's all those pieces that are in your DNA now that have caused you to be the person you are.
00:23:12
Speaker
But I think that's very important to recognize in community work because, we have to understand where this generation's coming from because especially generational, we're seeing such a divide happening between millennials from boomers and now millennials and there's like such a big divide. And I think where therapy kind of comes in and where us as practitioners need to start coming in and focusing on more macro level stuff is this conflict resolution.
00:23:47
Speaker
I feel like our communities have lost conflict resolution. Growing up, I just remember people would get in tiff and the next thing you know, they would go start their own club or they would go start their own whatever because we were never taught how to deal with these emotions. You've made me mad. Now I'm just done.
00:24:06
Speaker
Cut off culture, right? So I think that's really one of the things that we bring to the table as therapists and community work is like trying to be that mediator of conflict resolution.
00:24:19
Speaker
And when things get sour, things get messy, we're there to kind of help through that.
Coping Mechanisms in Modern Times
00:24:26
Speaker
Well, we do have to go to another break, y'all. I'm so sorry. I'm always the person telling us that we got to stop talking, but we know we got to keep the bills and then keep the lights on. But ah Jesse, I do want you to think about this while we go to break, because I know a lot of people have this question right now.
00:24:40
Speaker
What are tools we can use in the face a trauma to versus having to go back and deal with trauma because living in the political climate that we're in now, there's trauma everywhere. So when we come back from break, I would like for you to tell us like what are things we can do to allow ourselves to still be free, still be seen, but work through what's being dealt with us right now.
00:25:04
Speaker
So babies, we'll be right back and take a few moments. We'll be right back with Power Beyond Problems.
00:25:16
Speaker
Welcome back to Power Beyond Pride. We are here talking with the amazing Jesse Cockrum, and we're talking about trauma and how to deal with trauma in the face of trauma. We've dealt with past trauma, but now with the person that is elected to be our so-called president,
00:25:35
Speaker
The trauma that he's dishing out, and not not even the trauma that he's dishing out, but I will say this, Jesse, the the level of trauma he's allowing other people to think is comfortable to project to the LGBT community. What are some tools that you see that we could use to get through that?
00:25:51
Speaker
Yeah, the one thing that I am focusing on with TikTok education right now is staying present and grounded and regulating your nervous system. Just because, like you said, right now, We know they're trying to put us into dysregulation and put us into fear.
00:26:07
Speaker
And a lot of people are experiencing things. Real things are happening out there and it does produce a lot of fear, even for me. So there's a lot of different tools I can give you. i always like giving people choices. So we can do grounding or some breathing, or I could teach you about how you introduce yourself to nature. Those are some options.
00:26:29
Speaker
Which one's the word you want to learn about? I would love to learn about introducing myself to nature. I'm okay on that one. I think I want to introduce myself to nature as well. Okay.
00:26:40
Speaker
So it involves grounding, but the idea is what you're going to do is you're going to go to a threshold in nature and you're going to say, I'll just do mine.
00:26:52
Speaker
Hi, my name's Jesse. I am a settler here on this land. I live and work on the Shira Nation, the unceded territory of the Shira Nation. My family hails from Western Europe. Um,
00:27:07
Speaker
Ireland, Scotland, England, France, and Germany and Switzerland. And they were entrepreneurs and agriculturalists. I am currently a mental health therapist and I'm just looking to find ways to connect and ground today.
00:27:21
Speaker
So once I've done that introduction, what then happens is I am led through wherever I'm at to find a piece of nature that wants to connect with me. Again, asking that yes or no. And once I get that yes, I sit down and I just ask, what is it you want to communicate with me? I started with this intention.
00:27:41
Speaker
It's really cool practice because you're building community, you're grounding and being in nature, and you're also resetting your nervous system by connecting with something that wants to help you.
00:27:54
Speaker
So that practice is name, family of origin, if you're settler or indigenous here, naming the land that you're on and what indigenous people did reside there or used to reside there or still reside there.
00:28:07
Speaker
And kind of your family lineage and what they did as work and what you're indigenous. Okay, that was a lot. So I'm going need you to write that down for me later on so that I will remember that.
00:28:19
Speaker
Because if you're like me, I got a lot of answers to the questions. I mean, a lot of ways to say that stuff. So, yes. But that actually does like a good technique. Okay, we need to go and ground ourselves the next time we get together so we can get through the next couple years of this dictate i mean this democracy that we are dealing with currently.
00:28:38
Speaker
this the other popular one that we could do together is ocean breathing now what's that So ocean breathing is the idea of focusing and expanding the lungs so that you can expand your capacity for stress and then releasing all of the stress out or what I call releasing the bullshit. ah oh So what you do is you do a breath in and then you try to feel as much as possible and then to another breath in to expand that lung capacity and then just breathe it out like the ocean. So we can do that together. I'll lead y'all. So breath breath wrapped in
00:29:13
Speaker
And blow it out.
00:29:22
Speaker
And then just setting with that and allowing your body to adjust.
00:29:27
Speaker
Motion breathing is most people's favorite. Those are gorgeous. And that's such a beautiful way to be in relationship with the land around you and actually see it as a reciprocal relationship. Thank you for sharing those.
00:29:43
Speaker
And so when we talk about the queer movement, to pivot us a little bit back to our very gay center, and we often talk about pride. So when we talk about power beyond pride, what does that mean to you?
Power Beyond Pride and Advocacy
00:29:55
Speaker
b I think for me, thinking about power beyond pride is this idea of pride is where we shove out in the streets and real loud and we're proud and let you know we're here and that we're never going to go away.
00:30:12
Speaker
But I think beyond pride, it's very important that we continue to carry that energy. We show up in these spaces and those with more privilege show up and advocate for policies to change for and calling out behaviors of, hey, you just misgendered this person hey, and being willing to sit with that conflict because it's uncomfortable.
00:30:35
Speaker
um But it's also this idea of recognizing we as individuals are beautiful, powerful people, and we have the ability to create our realities as long as we continue to believe and be self-reflective in ourselves.
00:30:51
Speaker
And that's kind of what comes to mind when I think about Power Beyond Pride. Thank you for connecting it back to that solidarity. And for naming the discomfort of doing that. I feel like we often talk about, yes, we should show up for each other and then don't talk about the, oh, but it's hard. And it's really scary sometimes. So thank you for just saying, yeah, it might feel a little uncomfortable. And that is okay. I like how he brought it right back to and just talking about the connecting and allowing a person to just be able to say, you know what, this is hard, but I'm here for you. I'm showing up the best way I know how. Because I agree with Kate. I think a lot of times people don't show up because they
Lighthearted Rapid-Fire Questions
00:31:30
Speaker
don't know how. And instead of saying, I don't know how, they just don't do it, period.
00:31:34
Speaker
You know, so I love that. Okay, so now we're going to into our rapid fire questions. Sounds good. And Jesse, thank you for all the work that you do. I've loved this conversation and really appreciated everything you've really shared with us today. So now we're going to ask you a series of some very quick questions.
00:31:55
Speaker
And I believe that Maddie has the first question, but are you ready? Yes. sir Do you choose to accept this mission or however? Look, I'm being honest, because the rapid fire questions, that they can range from everything. So let's just be ready.
00:32:10
Speaker
So the first question I do have for you is, and you have two seconds to think of your answers. So the first thing that pops off your head, cannonball into the pool or dipping your toe in first?
00:32:22
Speaker
Cannonball. Do you relate to your so astrological sign? a Both my sun, all three of them, my sun, moon and rising, yes.
00:32:33
Speaker
Okay. Well, do you like a brand name? Are you a bougie? Or do you prefer something that's nice and homemade and you hear it from the heart? Because I'm deconstructing a homemade. Okay.
00:32:46
Speaker
Are you able to watch shows one episode at a time or do you binge the whole season? Somewhere in between. i can't do all season, but I can't do just one. Sure.
00:32:57
Speaker
So thinking of a spy, because you are a therapist, you would get a lot of information from people. Do you think you would be good at being a spy or do you think that knowing too much, you'll blow it? Ooh, my face would blow it.
00:33:10
Speaker
My face does it before I do, so. Do you believe in ghosts? Yes. Hmm. I like that. to bring a... There's an element of spirituality in what I do, so...
00:33:22
Speaker
Most definitely. And then I'm not afraid to sit down with Casper and have a good little talk. I'm one of those people. I'm right there with you. So this is actually one of my favorite questions because I love hearing people's answers to this one. Are you in the pursuit of money or are you in the pursuit of happiness?
00:33:37
Speaker
shit It's just because, like, if we're honest, it's capitalism. Sometimes we have to get money because to survive, but I would love to just be happy. um But, you know, that would be me just sitting in the woods and talking to him all day long.
00:33:51
Speaker
Oh, that actually don't sound bad. I'm just saying with the mushroom in it.
Closing and Audience Engagement
00:33:58
Speaker
And follow up to that, what's your favorite animal to talk to? On a spiritual level, with bears. On a physical level, the ones that are around here are birds or my dog.
00:34:11
Speaker
and What is this? oh well, give us a scenario of a time where you were, you knew the tools and the practices to deal with your trauma, but you just could not work with it at all.
00:34:23
Speaker
e That recently happened. Just because of the onslaught of stuff happening, seeing all of this darkness that's constantly happening on a daily basis and then dealing with my patients, I had an anger outburst and I had to be like, whoa, where did that come from? And then I used skills.
00:34:43
Speaker
So just because I'm a therapist, I'm also a human. That is so true. Well, where can people follow you, Jesse? where Can you give us all your social medias? Yes. So Instagram is at the Wolf's Refuge PLLC. And I think that's the same for TikTok.
00:35:01
Speaker
ah Facebook, you'll have to just search the Wolf's Refuge Counseling and Healing Services PLLC. i can't remember. I think that's the URL. And I have a LinkedIn, but that's just me, Jesse Copham. So Well, Jesse, thank you so much for this wonderful chat. We are unfortunately out of time at Power Beyond Pride, but will you please join us again?
00:35:26
Speaker
Of course. This is great. Thank you. There's so much that we didn't cover. i would love for you to come back. Thank y'all for being great. Oh, no. it You know what? We had a great time with you. You made us great. So don't think that we were great. You made us great, Jesse.
00:35:40
Speaker
But everybody, please remember to go to his socials like he said it before. Jesse Cochran. Cochran, excuse me. I keep messing up your last name and I don't know why I'm messing it up. And I am your co-host for the evening, Maddie Bino. And you can look me up at Maddie Simone 737 on Instagram and on Facebook. It's just simply Maddie Bino.
00:35:59
Speaker
And I'm your co-host, Kate, and you can find me at reframehealthandjustice.com and on Instagram at harmreductionfems. Remember to subscribe and get your friends to subscribe to Power Beyond Pride on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And check out our site at powerbeyondpride.com.
00:36:17
Speaker
Power Beyond Pride is a project from A Great Idea, a queer-owned design and content agency. Learn more about them at agreatidea.com. This episode is produced by Shane Lucas. Smita Sarkar is our project developer. Our editor is Jarrah Redding with support from Ian Wilson.
00:36:34
Speaker
We are both part of the podcast awesome host team here, and we invite you to send in your questions and comments to powerbeyondpride.com so we can stay afresh and abreast on all the hot topics.
00:36:47
Speaker
Check out our new episodes each week, and we look forward to career change making with you next time. Thank you from all of us at Power Beyond Pride.