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Clicks, Coalitions, and Creativity with Rodrigo Brandão #35
41 Plays2 months ago
Rodrigo Brandão joins co-hosts Kate d'Adamo and Daniel W.K. Lee to explore the evolving role of media, activism, and art in driving social change. Rodrigo recounts his path from film student to communications leader, highlighting the value of storytelling and community in organizing. The episode examines the struggle for independent journalism, the strategic use of social media, and the need for inclusive coalitions. Listeners gain insight into Rodrigo’s philosophy of joyful, art-infused activism and the lessons learned from both Brazilian and American movements.
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Transcript
The Media's Profit-Driven Focus
00:00:00
Speaker
The challenge is the corporate-controlled, profit-oriented inclination of our media. People are chasing clicks. They are chasing view eyeballs. If journalism is supposed to be something that puts the public interest at its center, right now we have profit at its center.
00:00:18
Speaker
Journalists used to be a lot more confrontational and be a lot more interested in investigating, really digging deeper, and weren't always interested in sort of just getting close to power.
Introduction to Hosts and Podcast
00:00:27
Speaker
And I think that we've lost that
00:00:35
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Power Beyond Pride, a weekly queer changemaking podcast, bringing to you voices and ideas from across our fierce and fabulous spectrum to transform our world.
00:00:47
Speaker
I'm Daniel W.K. Lee, poet, author and salt on watermelon stand. And I'm Kate, your resident High Hard Femme. We're your co-hosts on today's QueerCast journey.
Guest Introduction: Rodrigo Brandao
00:00:58
Speaker
In this episode, we are talking to Rodrigo Brandao, a Brazilian-born communications professional working on social justice, climate, and environmental issues. Rodrigo previously was the Senior Director of Communications at the Intercept News Organization and freelanced for the Marshall Project, Al Jazeera, and other journalism and social justice organizations.
00:01:18
Speaker
Most recently, Rodrigo handled the New York Press for the No Kings March. Welcome, Rodrigo. Thank you, Kate. Thank you, Daniel. Excited to be here. We're excited. show I'm particularly excited to have you. I've known you for oh god many years.
00:01:33
Speaker
I know.
00:01:36
Speaker
I'm glad that you got that out of the way. yeah No one has
Rodrigo's Journey and Passion for Film
00:01:40
Speaker
aged. yeah Well, before we talk about your movement work, I want you to tell us or our listeners a little bit about yourself, about growing up in Brazil, coming to the U.S. and kind of how it's informed your work now and how you even see your home now in the U.S. Yeah. So, yeah, as you said, I was born and raised in Brazil.
00:02:02
Speaker
i Basically lived in Rio de Janeiro for the first 20 years of my life. And I moved here when I was like just four months before I turned 21. So to go to college, I got a scholarship to study film and it was my passion. i was like a a film nerd.
00:02:18
Speaker
One of my first like gay experiences I've ever had was like watching my wedding banquet in a movie theater alone. It's funny story because I literally thought I was going to meet the love of my life if I just gathered the strength to go see this film alone. So I left my... And I was like, ah it would be so amazing. And I walked in, great film. No one even saw it was there.
00:02:41
Speaker
But it was like... But yeah, film was really my thing, and that's what brought me here. i actually started my communication studies in Brazil. i ended up doing a double major in four years. So I have a degree in film and then another in art history.
Discovering Community in New York
00:02:56
Speaker
And I moved to New York City in August of 2001, so right before nine eleven And that's really kind of like the beginning of my kind of identity as an immigrant, as a an an activist or whoever, whatever I am. i don't even know if I'm an activist. I'm more of a social justice person, I think.
00:03:15
Speaker
And but yeah, I think that moving here, moving to New York to sort of start this internship, but it was also like the internship of my dreams. I really had like an intern at Sony Pictures Classics, which is the distributor of all this foreign language films. And it was a very hard to get internship.
00:03:32
Speaker
So that was great. so I moved to New York with like, I'm going to intern at this place. It's going to be magical. And I'm going to have the time of my life. And then major terrorist attack happens. Then I realize that I can't survive on $5 an hour. and ah And so history begins. I moved to New York. I didn't know anybody. I literally Googled like gay Brazilians because I wanted to meet people that I could talk to. And I ended up finding this queer Brazilian group called Brazilian Rainbow Group. I don't even think it exists anymore.
00:04:02
Speaker
and i remember
Rodrigo's Initiation into US Politics
00:04:03
Speaker
it, yeah. Yeah, I started doing stuff with them and they, through that, I ended up being connected with all these other queer groups. And I remember two months after I joined this group, there was an offer from ALP, the Andre Larger Project, to do a leadership ah meeting.
00:04:19
Speaker
And then the guy who ran the group was like, I don't want to go to this. And was like, oh, let me go. And I was like, okay, go. So two months after joined this group, I was going on a leadership quote. like retreat.
00:04:31
Speaker
And then I met a lot of people there. And I think it was through those circles that I met you then, Daniel, and that I met some of the friends that still my friends to this day. And it was sort of like also the beginning of my political life in the United States, sort of how I started learning about social justice, LGBTQ history, like from an American perspective.
00:04:53
Speaker
And then also as 9-11, the war on terror began as the sort of like attacks on Muslims and all this sort of renewed racism, xenophobia started kicking in the US. That was also sort of my, when I started to sort of, okay, what do I do?
00:05:11
Speaker
What am I doing here? Why am I here? Yeah, so that's kind of the beginning of my life in New York. Interesting. And I love that you say I'm not an activist. I'm a social justice person. I'm curious what that means to
Activism vs Social Justice Work
00:05:25
Speaker
you.
00:05:25
Speaker
Yeah, good question. i And I say that maybe first and foremost, because I really respect activists. And I it's funny, the people I'm surrounded by activists and they are not only the smartest people I know, but they're also incredibly, incredibly pragmatic. They are strategists.
00:05:44
Speaker
They can talk to anyone. They can talk to far-right Republicans if they had to. They don't that much. But, you know, like, it's just people that really can read a room and can sort of strategize, can go for realistic goals without losing sight of the sort of big dreams.
00:06:01
Speaker
I don't know. So I just have a lot of respect for activists. And I know the skill. i Well, I have a sense of what the skill is. And I think especially organizing is is a really kind of a magical thing, which is sort of, and organizing that kind of democratic ways that we want things to be organized from the ground up, like really listening to the base, listening to what communities need and want, not just what you think is best for them, you know?
00:06:27
Speaker
So I think that kind of stuff requires a particular skill that I don't have. I think these people who are so, they're just great. And I'm, like I said, surrounded by them, I work for them, with them. So I'm always learning. I think in a way, like I've definitely picked up some skills from them, but I think my contributions have been more sort of on the media side, sort of either from the communication side, like thinking about how do we engage this with, you know, traditional media? How do we translate this to ah the media landscape?
Media Contributions and Protests
00:06:57
Speaker
And then messaging with making films and videos. So I think that's really my specialty, if I have any.
00:07:04
Speaker
You're offering kind of the perfect transition. So I'd love to know more about that contribution. And you recently worked on the No Kings protests and the incredible coverage of those guys. How did you get involved with that?
00:07:16
Speaker
I think that really started because I've been helping other campaigns in New York. I've been involved in other climate work in New York and social justice work in New York. So it was sort of an organic thing that people that were involved in that campaign or sort of the core group They really came to me, frankly, five days before and we need someone to we need help. And I was like, let's do this.
00:07:42
Speaker
And lots of things didn't happen the way that they could have happened if I had a month or. But also, I think we really did a great job and we ended up doing a press briefing that really got picked up by every major network. And.
00:07:55
Speaker
Mark Ruffalo showed up, Elena Glazer, and we really, i think, were able to create a situation for them that they felt comfortable with. So, yeah, so I ended up, like, contributing. And I think that last year, helped folks that were organizing this campaign to basically pressure Citibank to stop investing in new fossil fuel projects. It was called Summer of Heat. Yeah.
00:08:19
Speaker
And it was basically like a series of sustained actions, sometimes three to four actions a week in front of Citibank in New York for four months, really.
00:08:30
Speaker
And also with like different coalitions with really kind of with migrants. We like at one point brought migrants from the Gulf states. the Gulf South? so Yeah.
Summer of Heat Campaign
00:08:41
Speaker
States. So we were like, really, the folks that organized this really did an amazing work in terms of like kind of putting together a broad coalition of groups and people that wanted to come and support this, but it went really well. And I think that my sense is that it's not the largest or or one of the longest, like sustained climate political actions ever. It was really,
00:09:03
Speaker
And we really pressure Citibank to explain, both sort of explain their greenwashing and also talk about how can you sort of say that you are a friendly, sustainable bank while also putting billions of dollars towards all these fossil, new fossil fuel projects, mind you. We're not.
00:09:19
Speaker
And it's so funny to sort of, when you do that kind of work and to see how... Other people in the far right like paint this caricature of leftist demands. We were very explicit that we were talking about new fossil fuel projects. we were These were very like qui hard demands, and we knew that they were pretty big demands, but they were not impossible in the sense that It could be done. And the far right kept saying that we want to like all banks to stop all fossil fuel projects right now Cut oil from... you if We're just like, no, we're not stupid. we're not like No one is asking for you to turn off the gas, your local gas station, and throw out cars into a precipice.
00:10:04
Speaker
But you know it's it's too... the rights and to the oil company's advantage to play the, to paint the right or the left or climate activists in this way. Oh, you guys are demented. Right. Yeah. We got our media people, they got theirs.
00:10:18
Speaker
Yeah. yeah Yeah, you're talking around this kind of idea of messaging, which you kind of have. I mean, you have a great experience of that. mentioned before you you worked at The Intercept. And for those who don't know what The Intercept is, it's a news media organization that's been started by Jeremy Scahill, Glenn Greenwald, lawyer Laura Poitras, and kind of took off we're right in the wake of like the Snowden revelations, which kind of...
Challenges for Left-Wing Media
00:10:46
Speaker
It huge, obviously, and despite it kind of like this, I would say more recent like blossoming, we'll say of like other organizations, not like Zetio or Tio. Zetio, yeah. Yeah, Zetio, obviously from Jeremy and Ryan Grimm.
00:11:03
Speaker
I'd love to get your thoughts on the challenges of what we might call like left wing media, the kind of counter like mainstream or even mainstream also kind of being right wing, right leaning narratives.
00:11:19
Speaker
just big picture like your thoughts like why doesn't a show aside from i think the obvious answer would be money but like why doesn't a show like democracy now which is has a lot of cred among left-leaning or left-wing individuals like why doesn't that show or other kinds of like media organization have the same kind of presence or influence over the news media landscape and how it shapes like discourse politically or socially?
00:11:49
Speaker
Yeah, really good question. The challenge is that there are many. i mean, one, I think it's easy to say it's sort of this the corporate controlled, like profit oriented inclination of our media landscape. I mean, we I mean, people are chasing clicks, they are chasing view eyeballs, and in a way that's really not productive to the sort of to journalism as a kind of effort.
00:12:17
Speaker
I mean, if journalism is supposed to be something that puts the public interest at its center, right now we have profit at its center. So that's like a basic way of sort of, that I at least sort of think about what's wrong with media, meet the media landscape today.
00:12:33
Speaker
I think with that, and not maybe just because of that, but with that comes this sort of phenomenon of like access journalism. It's the fact that there was a time there was this sort of journalists used to be a lot more confrontational and be a lot more interested in investigating, really digging deeper and weren't always interested in sort of just getting close to power, getting...
00:12:53
Speaker
And I think that we've lost that to ah to a certain extent to the point that when you have journalists like Intercept, like Ryan Grimm, Mehdi Hassan, who aren't afraid to just call it like it is, to just like confront power, to really run stories that aren't comfortable to anybody, to Republican, Democrats, independents, like they really just sort of, and it doesn't mean that they're not politically savvy. There are fewer people who are savvier than Ryan Grimm, but he's not going to not run a story about someone in the senate because they're independent or democrat it's just not gonna happen they don't that's not how they're thinking about their work so and they're not the only ones obviously doing that there are other the nation that there's a whole sort of you could call it leftist or sort of more i'm forgetting the word for this kind of like investigative journalism it was like done in the 60s and i will remember but it's a kind of more like
00:13:49
Speaker
Yeah, leftist-leaning orgs and publications, but they are struggling with funding. Democracy Now! is definitely one of them. And they are also in a scenario that doesn't value that kind of approach to journalism. They're sort of, they're considered...
00:14:05
Speaker
Like in their best day, punks. that Ryan Graham. And in the worst day, they're like, well, you're unhelpful, aggressive. There's a list of objectives that are used to describe.
00:14:16
Speaker
Anyway, lots of things. So, and that's not true. And you might disagree of their perspective. You might disagree of the way that they do. They report a certain story. They certainly made mistakes in their lives, as a journalist does.
00:14:29
Speaker
But I think that kind of approach to journalism and to sort of finding a story, finding scoops and That kind of approach to power is getting rarer and
Funding and Independence of Media
00:14:38
Speaker
rarer. And it's also not something that funders are really interested in being a part of because it puts them in the middle of different, very difficult situations and conversations because they can't.
00:14:48
Speaker
Yeah, they sort of have to respond to these moments where they're not advancing a particular ideology that they might be interested in. And at the Intercept, there was never any interference from funders. And I know because I was there, I was part of the great thing about working at the Intercept is that it was a relatively small newsroom. So comms was not like the separate thing on the side. I was part of editorial meetings, sometimes probably spoke more than I should have. but so Definitely was allowed to like sort of say whatever ah whatever I wanted to say.
00:15:19
Speaker
Obviously, I wasn't making editorial decisions, but I was i know that there was not and with zero pressure from funding funders. And even if there were us none of them would have taken it. it would ah The opposite actually would have done would have had the opposite effect.
00:15:33
Speaker
But I do think that's rare and also puts funders in this kind of complicated situation because they're expected to advance. Even in a kind of nonprofit world, you expect it to, what is your theory of change?
00:15:45
Speaker
What is your three-year game plan? I think that's the mentality that sort of funders often have. And journalism sort of works in its own way and has its own pacing. And it's invested in a different set of values. So you really can't think of journalism in the same way.
00:16:01
Speaker
It's also just like expensive and also to to produce the kind of journalism where you're not just sort of sending a reporter out to write five stories a week or 15 stories a week because you need hits and you need like a bunch of and you need like lists and whatever it is that's going to attract eyeballs.
00:16:21
Speaker
The reporters at Intercept would sometimes spend like weeks or months like digging ah particular piece, would go travel nationally and internationally, would travel would and it would kill stories that if they thought the stories were not solid. like i think that they I thought that they, most of the time, were doing things the way that they should have been. That was the only newsroom that I worked at that point, and I thought, oh, I'm sure everyone works like this. It's not true.
00:16:44
Speaker
It's actually an ah or an exception. so Yeah, I think the whole world is moving into this kind of like right wing space, conservative space. I think that's just the nature of capitalism.
00:16:56
Speaker
It's just sort of taking us to this place. Like even and if you just sort of, it's where this ocean, the water is taking us. So to just sort of stay in the same place or go a little bit in the other direction, you have to put a lot of effort. Even i think newsrooms that aren't necessarily like right wing or conservative, it gets very hard for them to do like work that's really challenging power in a kind of meaningful, fundamental way.
Nonprofits and Social Media Strategies
00:17:21
Speaker
We just have to take a short break. so everyone, please stay tuned as we continue our conversation with Rodrigo Brando.
00:17:33
Speaker
Welcome back. This is Power Beyond Pride, a query change making podcast, and I'm Daniel and here with my co-host, Kate, talking to Rodrigo Brando. I'm just going to go back a little to what we were talking about earlier and thinking about like social media and as a disruptive, but perhaps also a amplifying space for media and news and messaging. Obviously, it's kind of furtive and fruitful as any kind of space.
00:18:10
Speaker
But I kind of wonder, like, how do you like organizations and and nonprofits also kind of use that space to kind of message to the people that they're serving or their kind of constituents or the you see the people that they want to affect or influence?
00:18:32
Speaker
Like, what aren't they kind of getting right in order to kind of shape the conversation around the the issues that they are that they're working on? Yeah. I mean, I think I can give you a very personal answer to that question. And I and it's sort of based on my experience.
00:18:48
Speaker
working in climate spaces. And I think I'm sort of perhaps like I'm sort of trying to frame myself as a person that sort of both sort of works at this kind of level, kind of maybe abstract narrative level of messaging and thinking of distribution channels and audiences and et cetera, but also has like more than one leg or side of my body, whatever it is, like on the organizing side. Because I think that often you what you have, obviously, in activism or in everything in life, you have this movement where things get unequally valued, right? Like where, like, sort of mainstream media sometimes gets more value than doing the organizing work in a local and town or setting up a local group meeting of organizing your neighbors.
00:19:40
Speaker
Like, right? Oh, that's cute. But really, what's really important is to just to get a hit on CNN. No one ever said that, but I think that I think it's important to really avoid that and really to think of sort of the offline and online as like part of one goal and to really not have a movement that doesn't recognize that there are multiple
The Power of Narrative in Activism
00:19:59
Speaker
hotspots, that we need multiple hotspots and multiple strategies to really accomplish what we're trying to accomplish, to have meaningful social change.
00:20:07
Speaker
We're not going to, you can't really do anything without social media. So like also terms like well, let's forget the internet. Let's just, I just take to the streets. Well, great, but like it's it would be very ill-advised to not use the tools of like digital organizing that are in our hands.
00:20:25
Speaker
Except that what you sometimes have is for entire organizations that are only thinking about creating kind of like audience profiles and Facebook ads and Twitter ads. And it's just, well, that's not going to solve it either.
00:20:38
Speaker
You need a theory of change. You need connections with local, national, regional groups. You need respectful connections with those groups. So you need to really understand what their goals are and try to articulate like small and broad coalitions to get those objectives.
00:20:56
Speaker
to even think what those objectives are and what are the things that we can work together. And then you need this sort of like narrative strategy work. You need sort of how are we telling the story of this campaign, of this movement in a kind of many arcs, right? And like in the kind of quick arc, in a sort of medium arc, in a long arc.
00:21:14
Speaker
And how do you do that without living a way that's effective, that really speaks to people's living conditions and doesn't let throw other people under the bus? That's not what we're seeing, for instance, a lot, not a lot, but there were occasions in the climate movement, for instance, where you'd see people putting out climate messages that are basically like, oh, we need to solve the climate crisis because otherwise these immigrants are going to come over.
00:21:39
Speaker
Like, that's why we should really... fix the climate crisis because we don't want all those immigrants coming. And it's like, please don't do that. It's just like, that's not, you don't have to also jump on a bandwagon, just get your message. yet Or in the middle of like all this national security talk, sort of have conversations like,
00:21:58
Speaker
It's really important to spend money on climate change and military. like sort of So how do we tell these stories without supporting other structures that we know are bad or or other narratives that actually throw other kinds of people under the bus, like that criminalizes more people?
00:22:13
Speaker
Like, how do you defend immigrants without saying they're good and bad immigrants? If you don't work and accept minimum wage and don't let us exploit you, you're a bad immigrant and you can go to jail and you can. So and those are not easy questions. I don't want to also say I know exactly how to do that. hire me. but It's not at all. I don't know. but But not knowing what not to do is part of it.
00:22:36
Speaker
what how can i How should I not talk about this? It's already part of the conversation. So I don't know. I think that... And that should really inform, I think, the social media and the digital and the online conversation too.
00:22:47
Speaker
I think we're over the sort of canceling period. I think that only the right really talks about the left as a canceling parade, like canceling each other into infinity. But how do you like change the, how do you tell people, hey,
00:23:00
Speaker
Let's not talk about this. Let's talk in this other way. You don't want to throw these other people in. How you call people we're in, right? In a way that's how do you call movements in? And I don't know how to do this. Like today at work, I didn't, I called something out. I called someone out. didn't call them in. But Just as a reminder, and we should try to do that as much as possible because that's how we build coalitions. And often that person that makes a mistake or sort of hadn't really examined a point of view or hadn't really understood how their narratives are potentially causing other problems over there, they can become an ally. And I think we do need broad coalitions.
00:23:32
Speaker
So, yeah, ah that doesn't exactly answer your question. I do think the narrative work It's becoming really, it's been for a while now, like a in certain circles, like very ah a cool thing to do.
00:23:45
Speaker
i think it can be powerful in some instances, but I think only when it's really connected to real groundwork, to like real... Like, it's nothing without something to back it up, without an organization that really understands, has an audience, has a community that it's serving, has very clear, sophisticated goals.
00:24:06
Speaker
Doing narrative work for those orgs and for those campaigns is a lot of fun. It's, wow, this is a really... Because the ideas are already there and you're just you just have to sort of distill them and kind of rearrange them in a way that's interesting. But otherwise, you're just...
00:24:20
Speaker
And I think like you and I, Daniel, we discussed a lot about marriage equality, for instance, like how there were many instances in which the movement was very, was really set on getting marriage equality passed and sort of achieving those goals.
00:24:32
Speaker
Fine. Can you do that without throwing trans people under the bus? Can you do that without sort of reaffirming like sort of the the military and and doing that without questioning some complicated things about the military that need to be questioned?
00:24:46
Speaker
Hate laws. And so I think that there's And hopefully we learned a lot from it, right? I think that also even the way that the dire situation of the trans movement now, well, no, the trans movement is doing really great. Like trans people are super organized and doing beautiful work.
00:25:00
Speaker
I think that the queer folks out like gay men and like all of other people haven't really showed up in the way that we should show up for the trans movement. And that's why we're now...
00:25:12
Speaker
where we are in terms of there again, like being, I think that trans people are again vulnerable in terms of legislation in this country, in terms of being expelled from military and from jobs that they want to keep and be a part of. So, and you could really make an argument that really started with when we left them behind around 20 years ago or 15 years ago, were married when we were so set on marriage equality, on sort of normalizing a vision of queer life.
00:25:35
Speaker
And now who's paying the price again for that? Like it's in part trans people, I think.
Art and Narrative in Social Change
00:25:42
Speaker
So I would love to go back and pull on a little bit of what you were talking about around the use of narrative.
00:25:48
Speaker
And I was sharing with you a moment I came up as a community organizer. And I feel like, especially as a young community organizer, was really taught that narrative is kind of, it draws people in.
00:26:02
Speaker
And the use of a personal story is like public awareness about your issue. But it was always a really flat way of thinking about narrative and art. And I'm curious, especially coming from Brazil, which has just such a different culture and different relationship to activism and art. I'm curious how you think, what is the role of art and narrative in social change beyond just the quick quote at the top that gets you to open the article before they transition to the quote unquote experts?
00:26:32
Speaker
Yeah, I think you, that's a great question and not an easy question. And I think also you right away, you touched and exemplify one of the biggest, largest problems with that is that sometimes the movement thinks of artists as like illustrators, like they brought, they bring artists in, you know, when everything is done. And so can you do this design for me? Can you do this image, cartoon logo? And that's not artists are creative and really a creative.
00:27:01
Speaker
geniuses, like they're creative people that should be part of entire process, right? Like we should bring them in to really think about how the messaging comes across. And hopefully their aesthetic can inform everything that we do, not just like the image that comes up, that shows up when you click on the ad or um when you click on the invite.
00:27:19
Speaker
it should be really thought of as how do you build an experience? hate to This is sort of like a product folks use that that experience, that that that word experience a lot. So I don't mean that way, but I mean, like, how do we how do we make the entire experience of being an activist and being in community with activists, like beautiful, joyful, like an artful experience, something that really,
00:27:46
Speaker
nurtures people as opposed to just drains them or makes them feel like they're not doing enough or gets them angry because art is nurturing art is it' beautiful and joyful it's not the only way to make art I think art can be angry and art can be heavy as well but but how do we think how do we bring artists and sort of let them be part of the whole process and learn from them in terms of building a static experiences that are sort of larger than just a specific medium or a moment that kind of inform a whole art also sort of provides the a perfect background and the scenario for community experience, right? Like it's sort of, and not, and I don't mean just making art together, but definitely that like sort of doing painting together or doing work together is also beautiful.
00:28:35
Speaker
But i also think just like the, an art piece or a show or whatever it is that an art create can really sort of make a community experience, can improve the the experience of a community, it can improve how people relate to each other because they're going to be surrounded by beauty or they're going to be embedded in a context of, in a static context, like they're going to be embedded in beauty. So, yeah, I think artists need to be brought in early on that he needs to be listened to and they should be informing our politics and not just sort of illustrating our politics and
00:29:09
Speaker
Because we need our politics to be joyful and we need to go of this tiny discussions about whatever it is that we're discussing this week that is like super tiny and irrelevant. Like, I think artists can also take us out of our own heads.
00:29:21
Speaker
Wow, let's look at this together. Let's sort of experience this, take this in and really kind of let. And also we talk a lot about emotions, right? Using our emotions in our politics and let us feel something, little whether it be anger or.
00:29:36
Speaker
but like art really helps with that, too. I think. And we know that because we all seek art in that context, whether it's music. And I think that's something that I think Brazil does it differently. And I probably understand better the way that Brazil does it.
00:29:51
Speaker
It's just music is everywhere. it just, you don't have to sort of invite a musician to come to it. It's just like, they'll come back. It just shows up and they'll have drums and they'll have a guitar and it would just happen like organically.
00:30:05
Speaker
And I think that it's also about a kind of flexibility and like a more kind of elastic way of sort of engaging with social spaces too. I think it allows for, in a city like New York, we're not even supposed to step on the grass and it's harder to create art because you're just like, okay, you have all this little box here. You've got to make an art in this bathroom. And well, you what mean? And in Brazil, it's just whatever. You can just like paint any mural. But I think we can all, and it's something that we're actually talking
00:30:38
Speaker
I'm talking with organizers about sort of how do we bring artists early? How do we let this really inform the And also it doesn't, the messaging doesn't have to be only like in this kind of direct language.
00:30:50
Speaker
It can be poetic. It can be open. It should be poetic. It should be open. It should be expansive. It shouldn't be just like, we want this right. It should be like, we want beauty. Like we are, we want to live well together.
00:31:04
Speaker
i don't know. It's just, mean, Dan should really talk about poets. Poetry, not me, but... Or you, Kate, as well. But, like, I... I mean, poetry is something that really fascinates me, and I...
00:31:15
Speaker
I don't read enough poetry and I know zero about it and I still read it. I never took a poetry course and was never told how to read poetry. I know I read it wrong. I'm sure I'm sure don't engage with it in a proper way, but like I just buy random poetry books sometimes and I just find it so relaxing. And I don't know. so I don't know if there's a way to read it wrong. I think maybe there's just, oh, some of the things that you didn't like...
00:31:42
Speaker
you didn't hit, you didn't grasp. and Sometimes the register is high and you're like, I'm not quite getting or there's a little bit of opacity just because of like syntax or the way things are being phrased.
00:31:52
Speaker
But I mean, i think for me, at least like successful poetry or just like successful art, like communicates something and provides an experience one one way or the other, like emotionally. but Particularly, I'm interested in the emotional aspect of it.
00:32:08
Speaker
And maybe that emotional aspect is kind of at the gateway to a narrative or communicate ah kind of a political idea but just unbeknownst to you or whatever. i mean i mean, you're yeah you this is not that different, I think, to the language of film, which you're a filmmaker. We can kind of talk about that. Like, there is essential about any kind of art is this kind of is communication.
00:32:33
Speaker
And i don't think that I think fundamentally that they align that way. and Maybe the kind of nomenclature or the language might be a little different, but we're all kind of like trying to say something as it were.
00:32:47
Speaker
And speaking of saying things like, tell us about filmmaking.
Rodrigo's Film Distribution Work
00:32:52
Speaker
Like, how did you become so passionate about it? And you worked in film and like the business side, you worked at Kino Thorber. You helped establish a cinema slate, right?
00:33:04
Speaker
Which focused on Latin American cinema. So you kind of done work to kind of platform Latin American filmmakers and film. Tell us a little bit about your journey there. And where is it now outside of like the social movements kind of like work that you're doing?
00:33:20
Speaker
I guess I just want to say, too, because I think maybe also my point was that there is a specific there is a knowledge to art, right? Like i totally agree with you, but I also think that there is good poetry and bad poetry. There's a knowledge to filmmaking and not to say that there is a list of good films and bad films and you should not like bad films. You should only like good films.
00:33:40
Speaker
I'm not saying that, but I'm saying that it's a skill. It's a knowledge. it's a There's a history to it. These are specific mediums that have been doing different things. There are movements within these mediums. And the same with poetry. And I think it would be great to get people like you who study poetry to bring poetry at that high level to movements and bring filmmaking at that high level to movements and bringing theater because theyre those things are incredibly complex and it's hard to make good theater, good film, good poetry.
00:34:07
Speaker
and Let the people who know how to do it. So I think we just need to sort of build the space for them to come in and let and take it over, I think. And I think for me, i mean, film was always kind of my scape and my little church and my little...
00:34:21
Speaker
And it's also a rabbit hole. It's once you start. I remember going to this VHS rental stores. And I think I really became like a cinephile. There was this little store like hidden like near my apartment, my my home in Brazil.
00:34:37
Speaker
And they would let you rent. like You could rent up to 20 films. And it was like a real, like $1, let's say, per film. And you could keep as many days as the number of films that you could you would rent.
00:34:50
Speaker
So i would leave with 20 tapes, like barely, like literally dropping tapes. And I would bring the tapes home and I would copy them. i would make copies of tapes because I wanted to keep the films. And I was like, just like watching and watching films, like compulsively.
00:35:04
Speaker
and you learn And then you learn, wow, this is like a whole world. There's like people in Poland and making films about death penalty. I remember when I saw like a short film about killing, it just completely blew my mind. It's just like,
00:35:17
Speaker
Who is Kieslowski? And then you just look it up and oh, this film actually was so powerful that it helped banish and that capital punishment in Poland when it came out. It was like, so like you realize, oh, this actually has consequences. You can make something that is so powerful that it can actually move people to do certain things.
00:35:36
Speaker
I don't think that's the point of art. Make people do A, B, get them to... put something in their basket and it's not like that. But I think that definitely it moves people in certain directions and you can get people to reflect on things.
00:35:50
Speaker
So, I mean, i think that honestly, I've always liked the sort of distribution commercial side and marketing side of filmmaking too. And I really wanted to work on it. I also was passionate about cinematography. i am still passionate about it.
00:36:05
Speaker
So I think all things being equal, I probably would have become a cinematographer after school if I had the option, but I had to get, I wanted to stay in the U.S. I had my first boyfriend. I was like, I'm going to stay in the US and we're going to marry. and Whatever. And but but but yeah.
00:36:23
Speaker
Always about marriage. Always about marriage. I actually don't think I was thinking about marriage. But anyway, I wanted to stay in the US and I needed a visa. I needed someone much to sponsor me to stay.
00:36:34
Speaker
So I was like... go and do distribution work and try to get a job that way. And I did, and I got a job and I was able to stay. So mission accomplished. But it's also, I think that even if I had done cinematography work, if I started working in film sets and had taken that route, I still would have would have had that side that wasn't fulfilled. So i'm not I don't even regret it necessarily, the path I took.
00:36:57
Speaker
But I was still, I've never really stopped sort of thinking about making films and sort of, but I think that the more I also sort of was introduced to kind of experimental cinema and to kind of academic, the film festival circle and like academic film circles, like I started also thinking of film more outside this sort of shopping mall, commercial theater, like Marvel movies spaces. like And I realized that the more interesting spaces are this kind of smaller, are the film festivals that show these odd films that don't get distributed in most. And that's why I wanted to work in distribution, actually, because you get to work in the small companies that do pick up and distribute ah and find audiences for films that are weird and rare and kind of that need to be seen, I think.
00:37:43
Speaker
And I did that, like you know, and I did that with Cinemas Late when I released like a bunch of Brazilian films here. So, but I've, yeah, I've always, i kept making little things and I am now, I'm sort of working on two short documentary projects. One is about an activist of all things, like, and it's really about civil disobedience and sort of this man's, he's a musician, sort of his own relationship to activism and to sort of coming out gay, like, late in his life. And why is this taken on? Why is it being arrested every week? Like protesting Citibank and Zionists
00:38:19
Speaker
And I'm working also on another short film about, I'm really interested in housing, like,
Current Documentary Projects
00:38:25
Speaker
issues. I mean, obviously, if you're in New York, you'd not be, like, shocked by, like, rents and, like, housing injustice in this city.
00:38:33
Speaker
so I ended up getting involved with, got two fellowships in the kind of housing urban space. And I've developed a couple of video projects with them. And I'm now ah with this work called Housing Narrative Lab. And I'm working on a short documentary about the Red Hook port, the development plans. So they're trying to make turn the port in Red Hook into build housing there, basically, a sort of...
00:39:01
Speaker
And obviously luxury housing, like this build is gigantic towers. They're going to sell for millions of dollars because you get to feel you get like a Statue of Liberty view. but also But, you know, it's really not what the neighborhood needs. The neighborhood doesn't have any kind of like infrastructure, doesn't have subways.
00:39:19
Speaker
The public housing there is in terrible condition. That really needs to be the focus. And they really should get more public housing there and not more luxury housing. It's not what EDC wants to do. And the there's a whole community organizing, trying to fight it.
00:39:34
Speaker
And also there's this sort of, it's the only port that's working port in Brooklyn that could still be developed and could be, we could have manufacturing jobs there. We should have resiliency plan in that neighborhood. And two, because there's too many, traffic is already impossible. And there's like literally 10,000 Amazon trucks a day in that neighborhood polluting in the whole place and making transportation even harder.
00:39:59
Speaker
They could be bringing some of those packages and products in via the waterways. And it's also really a ah a film, i hope, and a project about like, why doesn't New York develop its ports? Like why are we turning sort of port area into like luxury housing? And like, we are an island. Like we should have working ports. We should have a better relationship with water.
00:40:24
Speaker
So I know. So those are two things that I'm working on right now. and Yeah, and that kind of gets me going just sort of like it it's sort of important for me to be creative in some way. to have a tiny part of my life that's still creative and still kind of grabbing a camera and going somewhere.
00:40:41
Speaker
It just makes me happy. Both of those sound absolutely incredible, but we do need to take a short break here. Stay with us because we'll be back in a minute to share some fun facts plus a speed round of questions to get to know you.
00:40:59
Speaker
Welcome back to Power Beyond Pride, where we're talking with Rodrigo Prendel. I'm Kate, and I'm here with my co-host, Daniel.
Speed Round: Personal Insights
00:41:05
Speaker
Okay, so time for speed round questions where we get to know you even better.
00:41:11
Speaker
This is where we ask you some questions and you don't, well, try not to spend too much time thinking about it. and Just give the first answer that comes to mind. Are you ready? Okay, just give me a second. I am. Go for Okay, inhale, exhale.
00:41:27
Speaker
ah Yes. Okay, first question. If you had to sing karaoke right now, what song would it be? I Will Survive.
00:41:37
Speaker
hey You told me not to fake. Yeah, that's great. mark That's going to be way more than you than you want to know. I think it might answer the next question that we had. Next question. What's your favorite gay anthem?
00:41:49
Speaker
Oh, gosh. it's Any Kylie Minogue song i guess can get you out of my head. Nice. is get too adam Yeah, yeah. but That's a good song. Well, speaking of songs, what's the last song, movie or book that made you cry?
00:42:07
Speaker
Oh, gosh. So I watched this Steve Sautenberg film. It's like a haunted house movie that I thought was like really fascinating. Presence. Yeah, it's called Presence.
00:42:18
Speaker
It made me cry. That sounds amazing. Yeah. What do you wear to bed? What do I wear to A mix of like naked to just like fully clothed sometimes.
00:42:31
Speaker
Yeah, it's a mess. Depending on the weather or how like how cold the air conditioning is. Yeah. Or just sometimes I get really lazy and I'm like, I'm just going to sleep like this. and it's just ah Okay. If you could have sex with a celebrity or any celebrity, who would it be? And what do you think it would be like?
00:42:51
Speaker
Oh, gosh. Oh my God, I'm going to... Okay, I think Bradley Cooper. Sorry. i just like... Because I just saw him in person once and I didn't think he was attractive and then I saw him in person and I was like, whoa.
00:43:06
Speaker
This man is interesting. So, yeah, it would be tender. of i love it. but Question mark. Tender? Yeah, yeah I know.
00:43:17
Speaker
Maybe. So I feel like every celebrity encounter for me is you're not the size I thought you were. Was Bradley Cooper the size you thought he was going to be? No, not at all. And that's exactly what shocked. i For some reason, I thought he was like a short man and he's like tall and just like very proportionate. and And I don't know, just and this smile that's just like, what is that? And kind of looking very, or gets just kind of easygoing, you know?
00:43:47
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, not the only person, Pedro Pascual for sure, but that's who wouldn't. That's everyone's answer, right? Yeah, I know. So I don't i want to be there. Yeah, what's tall too? You're like 6'3", so like your height?
00:43:59
Speaker
He was kind of my height and I don't even think of myself as tall, but I had just imagined him as like 5'4", for some reason. Yeah, I don't know. So I was telling them like, wait, you're Bradley Cooper? You're coming for the short kings. Oh my goodness. Okay. Totally. I'll take that. I love short guys. i notice ah Next question. Have we ever actually had a hot president?
00:44:23
Speaker
No, sorry. I agree. What's the one item you can't live without? Well, Lula is a hot president, so so maybe not not in the US, but Brazil. Say that again, an item that I can? Yeah, one item that you can't live without.
00:44:38
Speaker
Fan. I really love fans. Clack fan. No, not even, the but sure. Yeah, clack fan. but I actually, I'm like addicted to the sound of fans and it's been a problem in every relationship.
00:44:49
Speaker
I will want to sleep with a fan on or a fan near me. Out of a white noise situation. It's not even white noise. I just need the wind too. Okay. So it's like a whole thing. but Yeah. hugan and I need cameras. I like cameras.
00:45:05
Speaker
Fans and cameras. Right. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. Is a hot dog a sandwich? No. Correct. Yes. Oh, I'm glad. What was your aim handle?
00:45:17
Speaker
Oh, shy. Yo. Yes. It's, it was RPM brand down. RPM. Okay. Yeah, I remember. It sounds butch. Kate, you don't even know what that is. Do you?
00:45:34
Speaker
you know what an AIM? Yeah. Oh, absolutely. i am definitely of the AIM GeoCities era. Okay. It's AOL, right? like it Yeah. It's AOL Instant Messenger. yeah Okay. Oh, my God.
00:45:47
Speaker
And if you made that brring noise right now, we'd all jump for i know laptops. Absolutely. Most overlooked Brazilian dish?
00:46:00
Speaker
Overlooked Brazilian dish. I guess it's the, I mean, feijoadas are just look wonderful. Like veggie feijoadas without like meat are just really great. And people don't really give it a choice. Give it a chance.
00:46:14
Speaker
Sounds excellent. And then finally, what's the best place to get Brazilian food in New York City? oh So there are two Brazilian restaurants like near my home. i actually had lunch at one of them today. They're not the best, but they're like dear to me. So they're the ones I like.
00:46:31
Speaker
What is that churrascaria place? It's like a really famous one. It's really good. It's just so expensive. The one in Midtown? Yeah. Yeah. Fogu de Chão is really good.
00:46:42
Speaker
Yeah. Fogu de Chão is like a steakhouse chain as well. Those are both really good. Well, thank you for those. And thank you so much, Rodrigo, for joining us. And thank you for painting such a beautiful picture ah what it means to organize out of beauty and joy.
00:46:58
Speaker
i think all of us, especially right now, can live in that visual for a little bit and think about more ways that we can make our spaces more beautiful, more emotional, more connective, and the ways that we need to bring in art right now to do that. So thank you for gifting us that image and that vision.
00:47:14
Speaker
Where can people find out more about you or follow you and your work?
Where to Follow Rodrigo Online
00:47:18
Speaker
I guess I'm on Twitter. burned down NYC. Terrible Twitter handle or X handle. And I guess I have a website. It's Rodrigo. Just my name, RodrigoBrandon.com. I don't put everything there, but there's just a short bio and a couple of samples of things I've done like a long time ago. but And I have a video of Dan that i want to I need to put out one day, like shot in 2003 or something.
00:47:42
Speaker
It's so out. Well, we're very excited to follow your short projects and look for a video where we're going to talk about 2003 What next time? Oh, God.
00:47:53
Speaker
Thank you, Kate. That was such a lovely conversation. really appreciate you bringing me on. Well, thank you so much. I'm your co-host, Kate, and you can follow me and find more at reframehealthandjustice.com or on Instagram at harmreductionfiles.
00:48:07
Speaker
And I'm your co-host, Daniel W.K. Lee, author and poet. You can follow me on blue Sky at Daniel W.K. Lee, L-E-E, and on Instagram at Strong Plum.
00:48:20
Speaker
Remember to subscribe and get your friends to subscribe to Power Beyond Pride on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And check out our site at PowerBeyondPride.com.
00:48:33
Speaker
Power Beyond Pride is a project from A Great Idea, a queer-owned design and content agency. Learn more about them at agreatidea.com. This episode was produced by Shane Lucas. Smita Sarkar was the project developer. Our editor is Jarrett Redding with support from Ian Wilson. We are both part of this podcast's awesome host team, and we invite you to send in your questions and comments at powerbeyondpride.com.
00:48:56
Speaker
And check out our new episodes each week. And we look forward to queer change making with you next time. Thank you from all of us at Power Beyond Pride.