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CrossFit: Past. Present. Future.
84 Plays6 years ago
K and I discuss some lessons learned after 11 years of CrossFit affiliate ownership, training thousands of athletes and coaches, as well as our own experiences to shape where we are going. Our passion and purpose in life is to provide opportunities to make people better in their lives through fitness and mindset coaching. Our gym is an outlet for this and I think this conversation does a good job of capturing the years worth of conversations we've had, experimentation, and core values we want to express.
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Transcript
Restarting After Technical Errors
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello. Hello. We're back. Yeah. In the first time in between the ears podcast history, we recorded and then deleted it. We had to start over. There was a lot.
00:00:20
Speaker
while you don't know what I am, you're welcoming you for you're welcome because it was, I think in your words, this is an absolute mess. That's what you said when we were recording. So maybe we'll, I don't know. Did you delete it? Oh, I deleted it. It's burned. I was going to say it could be, maybe this their video or no. I'm saying there's no evidence. There's, there's nothing. We'll just paint the picture. There were two dogs. There was, there was just a lot. It was a mess. It was an absolute mess.
00:00:50
Speaker
So they're right now probably tearing apart our room. They're eating the wall likely, but at least you don't hear it and they're not. But the listeners come first. Yes, it's about
CrossFit's Evolution and Community Impact
00:00:59
Speaker
you. Yeah. So today we're talking about a hot topic. I'm going to introduce it. Please. Taking the floor. I feel like this is kind of, this is definitely one that's, um, that has the potential to be deep, but it's more so about CrossFit. Like, yeah.
00:01:20
Speaker
We are a 10 year plus affiliate and with like anything, things evolve. We are evolving. I think we've recently kind of embraced that and worked out sort of what is it exactly that we feel needs to specifically change in that evolution to extract the best of CrossFit
00:01:49
Speaker
Um, and also provide people with the best in increasing their fitness, which is what the point of our business is. So that's kind of what we're talking about today. Like what, what are we changing? Why, what are some of the pitfalls and what are some tools to have people move forward in what is CrossFit in 2019?
00:02:14
Speaker
Yeah. And if somebody just, if somebody's not across at Mars town member, sure. What do you, what, what do we hope to provide them with? Yeah. I think for someone that's not a member of our gym, the hope is to educate like, okay, maybe at their gym, there's some things that like, Oh, okay. Yeah. I really, I'm identifying that as something I'm relating to and providing them with some tools to, um,
00:02:43
Speaker
you know, work around, work around or maybe have a conversation with a coach or gym or whatever. And then also like there are some things that we offer outside of the gym that people could take advantage of that are not physically close to us.
00:02:59
Speaker
Um, and, and probably other people do. So like, maybe that is the option, whether it's us or other people, there are services for people to kind of marry, like what you might be doing at your current gym that you love the community, all that great stuff, but like, ah, there's something that's not quite right. And I don't want to just, it doesn't have to be black or white. Sure. Yeah. And so for that, they can, you know, reach out. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Cool. Well, you're on a roll. So then you want to start.
00:03:30
Speaker
Let's start in 2008. Oh my god, really? No, not really. I think one of the things to say, like upfront is, and we started our last version of this podcast saying this. Yeah, it went downhill from there. Was that like CrossFit has and does really change people's lives. Yes. That is an expression that resonated with me like from the first level one I participated in.
00:04:00
Speaker
And I felt it for myself. I've experienced it. Same here. So that's incredible. And I think there's so much value to what happens with CrossFit. I think there's a special something that happens with the community. We do a lot of interacting with members. We try to get a lot of feedback from members. We're always asking questions. And one of the things that is very consistent is there's a unique
00:04:30
Speaker
something yeah in quotes that happens with that group yeah and that's a positive yeah and that also happens at other affiliates yeah i mean you ask anybody you know and this is one of the things that's amazing about CrossFit is
00:04:50
Speaker
when you look at programming or people say like, Oh, that gym has terrible programming or their space is kind of not so great. Um, you know, and, and I'll say it, there's a gym around the corner from us that's on the third floor. Uh, I have not been in there, but small facility, you have to climb stairs that aren't, I don't think in the best shape. The coaches don't have as much credentialing experience education. Those people love that gym.
00:05:19
Speaker
They're not coming to our gym looking at it and saying it's bigger. It's got more equipment. There's more experience. Like they love their gym. And that's true of every CrossFit gym. There's a community and that's really special. Yeah, totally. But we're saying you can kind of have that and also make it really effective. Cause I think what happens and we've experienced this is when it's not at some point that only goes so far.
Technique vs. Task Completion Debate
00:05:46
Speaker
Because when now you're going to a gym, most people come to us because they want to increase their fitness. They're coming to us for fitness. Yes.
00:05:54
Speaker
Now the community, the people they meet, that can help like, yeah, I wasn't going to come this morning, but now my friends go, I love coming. I love that environment. But if the fitness isn't happening, that's only going to take them so far. And then they're going to say like, and what is funny is when it doesn't become a fit anymore, they still have that community of friends. They're seeing them outside of the gym and they're saying,
00:06:17
Speaker
They might say like, yeah, you know what? I'm going to try spinning. Yeah. And now they've won the community piece. They have their friends, but they're no longer going to your gym. Sure. That's what we're saying. Like, okay, we, that, that doesn't really make sense. It can be a win-win. They can come for the community. They can also actually. So what are some of the things we're seeing or we've implemented?
00:06:41
Speaker
What are some of the pitfalls, I suppose, or things that we've seen have to evolve as, as we go on. And we've had 10 years now of experience with running across the gym and that things were implementing. Yeah. So from my perspective, um,
00:07:03
Speaker
Maybe it's because I default to research. Maybe I play things a little conservatively and whatnot. But what I see is people skipping over absolutely critical fundamental steps in athletic development because we are going to ask people to do at some point higher level skills.
00:07:32
Speaker
with, in some cases, external load in an environment that promotes speed and competition often, whether that's directly or indirectly or with others or with yourself. That is playing with fire. So can you give an example, a specific, so for someone to understand what you're talking about?
00:07:58
Speaker
The kipping pull up is the easy one. That's low hanging fruit. And it's like, okay, Hey, you're going to, you know, create force at the shoulders and the hips to propel yourself above the bar, but you can't hang from the bar in an active position or do a strict pull up. Right. There's that, but then there's other things like, and I think that that's people can understand that one, but there's other things like.
00:08:30
Speaker
Take a squat, for example. We put weight on our back and do a squat. And what really happens is we lower our center of gravity. By bending our knees. By bending our knees and we raise it. That's not a squat. The squat was not designed to just be a little spring. A knee bender. A knee bender, yeah.
00:08:55
Speaker
So when I look at people move, and this is a function of playing at super high levels of soccer and training and being exposed to some amazing coaches. And a lot of research. Yeah, a lot of research and experimentation and studying and just viewing myself as a professional. We have to look at what we're asking the body to do. And so how the body moves is going to drastically dictate.
00:09:24
Speaker
How the body moves and what is actually being used to get the body to move. Yeah, what is the body to use? My issue with CrossFit is that task accomplishment has been prioritized over how we complete the task. The what, you see it, it checks the box, the what has been accomplished, how is kind of not as important.
00:09:49
Speaker
Right. So it used to be whatever technique versus intensity, then they kind of changed it to technique and intensity. But the technique piece is where we're talking about that's up for debate because is technique and this is something, you know, we talk about strong foot a lot. They talk about intention over position. So if someone athlete a their hip crease is below the knee,
00:10:14
Speaker
And they look relatively like they're not falling forward, but generally speaking balanced that checks the box. But do we actually know if they're really engaging the backside of their body, their hamstrings, if they feel it? I mean, I remember doing the sandbag squat one of the first times when you were teaching me that and you asked me, don't you feel this near hamstrings? And I said, no. Right.
00:10:39
Speaker
And then the other day, now that I've been doing it and I understand it more, I thought to myself, how the hell did I not feel this in my hamstrings? Cause now I've, so it can look a certain way. And that's what you're saying like task accomplishment. Points of performance is a checklist for movement. And I find I do not believe in living life via a checklist. I think it, it, it, it's just not the way to do it. So.
00:11:08
Speaker
Perfect example. I was teaching five o'clock last Tuesday night and told people like, believe it or not, the value of a lunge is not your patella hitting the ground. Is not your kneecap hitting the ground. There's not some magical thing that happens when your kneecap hits the ground. That's like check lunge. However,
00:11:33
Speaker
Anybody that's done a lunge before will probably say like, Oh, my knee has to hit the ground. How many people that are, that do CrossFit did the open a year or two ago might've had one of those reps where you're like, Ooh, I know my kneecap didn't hit the ground. I wonder if my judge saw it or like, Oh, I'm going to redo it. Cause my knee didn't hit the ground. Right. It's a standard. It's a standard. It's a, it's a, it's a way to equalize all movement.
00:12:03
Speaker
and all humans. And all humans. And that is ridiculous. Utopian societies and things don't work and are awful. So we cannot equalize movement when every single person is a unique little snowflake. So I think this is like a little bit of a tangent because then it does sort of start to have that bifurcation. Is that the word? I really like that word. Don't use it.
00:12:31
Speaker
of CrossFit as a fitness regime for people in the CrossFit games. Yes. At the CrossFit games, they have to have a standard. Otherwise it would be very hard to say this person did the same amount of work, the same movement. That is two totally different things. And those people, most of them also have more athletic extract, they're extracting all that. They're not, they've been through a lot of experience to get there.
00:13:02
Speaker
I think one of the things you're saying that to go back to why we initially started discussing this is so people come in and what we're saying is regardless of if they do CrossFit or spinning or whatever their choice of exercise is new people that come in the door.
Consistency and Environment over Complexity
00:13:19
Speaker
The wind for them, what we're, what we're first looking at isn't their nutrition. Like there's things that if we had an ideal world, we would do, but the reality is what we know is the priority for people coming in who are new to exercise is just to get them in the door and get them consistent.
00:13:37
Speaker
This is what I do. Now I'm a person that like people like us do things like this. Isn't that like a Seth Godin thing? So like I'm now a person that goes to the gym. I do that. Yeah. What happens in the gym is less important. Yeah. At that point. So we skip over like for someone like that, the priority is somebody that's never worked out before. Yeah.
00:14:01
Speaker
They've never worked out before, they've never really played a sport and they want to make a change in their life. The environment is the biggest factor. The culture that we establish, the fact that they go to a physical brick and mortar place with other people in a supportive environment is way more important
00:14:23
Speaker
then the details of what's happened then the program and I would say even someone that has maybe exercise but it's not working they're looking for a change same thing in the crossfit it's something like wow I really like this place okay so we we do skip over like that's goal one and the challenge we have is yes
00:14:43
Speaker
athlete who comes in new person, new member, you know, doing burpees. Yeah. Okay. They might have zero upper body strength. Yeah. Very poor shoulder position, but they're going to do a burpee burpee is a simple movement for them. Fast forward. What we're identifying is like, okay, now they're coming. They're consistent. At some point we have to,
00:15:11
Speaker
We have to go back and we have to now talk about like, let's talk about your shoulder strength. Let's talk about that position. And what we find is that's kind of not necessarily happening. I think in big CrossFit, CrossFit, generally affiliates, whatever. I think someone might say as doubles advocate, well, that's why you have like a foundation's program. Sure. That is false. You are not improving someone's shoulder strength position, whatever in four, eight, 12 sessions. Yeah. That is, that is a years. Years.
00:15:40
Speaker
years. Yeah. One is like the awareness. Where's your proprioception? Like this is your shoulder. This is your elbow. Like that's the level of which most people are at. Now, how do we engage this muscle? Like this is stuff that takes a long time. Right. So what we're finding is that piece is kind of missing and it's also not. Oh, okay. Just do a strength workout before every Metcon. No.
00:16:07
Speaker
It is teaching someone how to actually use their body, teaching them, engaging, teaching them, having them go through it. And it doesn't necessarily mean throwing them a barbell, showing them a movement and saying, load up. And it also doesn't mean pulling out the musculoskeletal diagram and put them in A and P class. Like that's not, cause then it's like, good, you're going to talk to them. They don't want to come anymore. No, no one wants to go to university.
00:16:33
Speaker
So that's the trick of like, okay, so how do we, if we're talking, we've used this analogy of like a house before, like you've sold someone on the house, like they're excited about this new house they're going to have. Yeah. And you kind of sold them on like, I think probably if you're a good real estate agent, I don't know much about this, but if I was a real estate agent, how would you sell, sell me a house? I would sell it on like all the, like, well, aside from the, actually this does work. So you're going to sell that person on,
00:17:00
Speaker
what it's going to mean, what that house is going to be like, right? Like all the memories you're going to have. And this is where you can make breakfast with the kids and chat with them after school. Okay. You're also probably going to say like, look at this, these aesthetic features. This is great. Look at these floors. Look at the painting color. You're going to pick it up above the light, the way it comes in. And now a person's like, yes, I'm in. I love it. I love this house. But like, if,
00:17:28
Speaker
We are, but like, what's the structure of the house like? You know, so now they're in the house and they're like, ah, like the, but there's like a crack in the wall downstairs. Like, I don't know what's happening. It's like, well, yeah, we do need to actually fix the most structural things. You can live in this house, make these memories, but the wind gets above 35 miles an hour. It's going to fall. It's going to fall over. Yeah, we can't do that. So I don't want to buy this house. I think, right. So I think it's like,
00:17:56
Speaker
what would have to happen is like you get that person in. Yep. We're going to still get to pick out the pink colors and all that stuff, but we also do need to spend some time. We need to, you can live here, but like there is going to have to be some focus on building that structure because we can't just like not pretend it's not there and paint over it. And so that's, I think, where,
Gym's Responsibility and Continuous Improvement
00:18:21
Speaker
It's so easy to just like, and some of that stuff is, um, I think it's the small doses every day. And that's what we're saying. Like, how do you not put someone in? No, nobody wants to go to an anatomy class or still making it consistent every day where they're learning. Um, but you can still have the other parts as well. You're not going to take all that away now. And so you have to move out of the house and we're going to rebuild it. And like that, that's not going to work.
00:18:50
Speaker
Right. So out of the house into the gym. Yes. What we are doing and what we've done this week. And we've been talking about for, you know, a lot. I mean, at nine o'clock at night, it's like, Oh my God, are we really still talking? Yeah. And it's been years and honestly it's been years. We are looking at every single movement that we do. And we are thinking about the people that trust us with their health or a
00:19:21
Speaker
or a part of their health and take that, like that, I mean, not to be dramatic and I, and it doesn't keep us up at night, but it has us working late into the night when there's maybe some personal things we could be working on instead. Sure. It's, it's, they're not only there and I would say it's not only their health, like, so people are investing their time, their trust, their money,
00:19:50
Speaker
There's a lot that people hand over to us and we are the, what's the word? When you're in charge of something. That's the word I'm looking for here. All right, whatever. We are the people that are responsible for taking that stuff. They've handed it over to us.
00:20:11
Speaker
and we need to deliver on it and take care of it, and we're the experts. I think, not to go on a tangent, but one of the pitfalls of, and this could be anything, but CrossFit gyms, in my experience, you found something that worked. Hey, this is awesome, this works. And then it's just like autopilot and go. And it's very tempting.
00:20:36
Speaker
But the fact, no, I'm saying like, I think people are tempted to just say like, Hey, this works. And, and to kind of turn a blind eye to like, eh, but maybe like things change. Yeah. So you're, we could still walk into CrossFit gyms and we have where what's happening. It literally feels like you were just time warped back to 2008 when we didn't know any better or didn't know as much as we do now. And so that's where there's a problem. The fact that like,
00:21:04
Speaker
We're 11 years in. We have a lot of education, a lot of experience, and we're still changing the game. That is, I think, it has to be the responsibility of a place that's putting up a sign that's saying like, hey, we are going to, you can trust us. Yeah. So I agree. I think that's something. Okay. Um, and so what we've done, what we've been doing is we've really been taking a very hard look.
00:21:34
Speaker
at movements that we do traditionally in CrossFit, right? And we've been extracting, okay, what do we, what do we, what does this movement mean? Not what the name of the movement is. What's the value? What's the value? What's the ability to execute it well? What's the ability to learn it? Not at the cost of something that's- What's the risk? Yeah. What's the risk? So the risk versus reward.
00:22:02
Speaker
And where does it fit into the overall picture of for many people who don't have a background in, you know, this stuff. Improving fitness. So like the shutters and the paint and whatever of the house, while also reinforcing and ensuring the foundation is rock solid. And I will say there is there are movements that should not be executed.
00:22:30
Speaker
Right. There's movements we've identified that really like we are not going to include them in the programming. Right. And I think one of the things that is, that has been
00:22:44
Speaker
in CrossFit is that intensity equals results. That is not my interpretation. That is the thing. And you're wrong. It gets results. They're not always the results you want.
00:23:05
Speaker
Yeah, and it's not all the time. Intensity has value. But the notion of all the time, every day, intensity is the only answer. That, I think, is what you're saying is wrong. Intensity, inherently in itself, isn't wrong. Yeah, and of course, it's like, oh, yeah, you need to do this, you need to do that. But here's the deal. Well, look at CrossFit.com, though. Look at CrossFit.com. Currently, if you haven't looked at CrossFit.com, which has been the mothership of CrossFit. Right. Every night at 8 o'clock. Every night at 8 o'clock, Bill checks.
00:23:35
Speaker
January they changed the website. And what's showing up there now more often than not is strict movements. There's sometimes 20 minutes of stretching, slips, which are like, you know, controlling your body in space, you know, there is less intensity. There is less
00:23:58
Speaker
Olympic lifts, there is less kettlebell swings. So what's funny in this conversation is the people that are waving the CrossFit flag, like, yeah, but CrossFit, I'm wondering, have you been looking at what mother CrossFit is even doing most are not right. So what we're saying is like, there's the movements. So we're looking at those right and the value and like, where's that? Where's that fall into like, what we're doing responsibly for people. You know, I think we've always
00:24:25
Speaker
done a good job of trying to, you know, there are CrossFit gyms where you go and they will tell you, here's the warmup. Go ahead. You got 10 minutes. I'm going to start the clock in at nine 30. Yeah. We've never
Programming for Balanced Training
00:24:40
Speaker
done that. No, there's a warmup. We use physical therapists. We, we draw on all these things to try to prepare people in the best way possible to teach them all those things. Yeah. But we're finding even in doing that,
00:24:52
Speaker
We're like, okay, how can we still do better? And that's what we're saying. Okay. There's some movements now that we have to have conviction in the same way that we wouldn't find it valuable. People just wanted to do burpees and running all the time. We know that we can't, there's those people, there's people that just want to do heavy back squats all the time. The direction has to come from what we know is the best thing. You cannot waiver with.
00:25:21
Speaker
what people want and what they think, because everybody has a preference. At the end of the day, we are the people researching this stuff and the experts. I think the other thing we have been doing, and this hasn't been, it's been more recent, but we've been doing it for a while now, is based on what you're saying about the intensity. Should every day be a Metcon? No.
00:25:43
Speaker
a couplet, a triplet, 12 to 15 minutes, feel the same. It could be a triplet, but the metabolic conditioning piece, the use of the pathways, no. Right. So what we've done is kind of identify these sort of three to four categories of type of workout. So there's the metabolic condition. There's a traditional sort of
00:26:11
Speaker
Yep. You're going to get your heart rate up conditioning. And that's still three to four times a week. We program that. Um, now in that, one of the things you were saying as it relates to movement is if we're saying that, Hey, that day, yeah, like intensity might be higher. How are we looking at what movements to choose for those? Yeah. So that's the thing. Like.
00:26:37
Speaker
And I say this all the time, like, where are you going to find your intensity? Most of the times with a traditional CrossFit workout or high intensity workout, there's going to be one movement within the workout that you should find your intensity in. Like give example.
00:27:00
Speaker
Anything row? I mean like if a workout so like Helen perfect example Helen classic CrossFit workout three rounds for time 400 meter run 21 kettlebell swings 12 pull-ups. Okay. All right, Helen is a Less than 10 minute workout
00:27:19
Speaker
Yeah, I mean the elite people do it in like James Fitzgerald. Remember OPT, the video of him at the old gym doing it? It was like amazing. He did it like 630. People are probably not doing it. 630. Now you're now any good, like any normal, like not a chance in hell going to, well, what was regional, it's like 630. Yeah. So.
00:27:39
Speaker
So you have a run, you've got a weightlifting element, and you have a gymnastics component. Most people in the gym, if they're going to push hard and within CrossFit, aren't going to do a strict pull up. Sure. Right. They're going to do a kipping pull up. They're going to do a butterfly pull up because you can do more and less time. Sure.
00:28:03
Speaker
But what you've done in that, the pull-up is not like the strict pull-up, the butterfly pull-up and the kipping pull-up, the chest of our pull-up, they're all totally different. So your intensity, if I do that workout and I get six and a half minutes and I do strict pull-ups and you do the workout and you get five and a half minutes and you do butterflies, we got two totally different workouts. Yes.
00:28:33
Speaker
Not because we were 60 seconds apart. Right. So in a workout like Helen, where there's those components run like you're getting chased, swing the kettlebell intentionally.
00:28:51
Speaker
Don't stop, do a set. Don't stop. And your pull-ups should be good pull-ups that use your back, your lats, not just flying around on the bar. Right. So that's what I mean by find your intensity. If we say,
00:29:17
Speaker
butterfly pull ups generate intensity. Like, come on. Sure. And again, that's that's back to the games thing. And you know that I held on to butterfly pulps for a long time. Of course I know. But that's because I think it is that like,
00:29:32
Speaker
more intensity is better. Like, well, if I can get more intensity out of the pull up, I'm going to take it. Um, if I can get more intensity out of, you know, the kettlebell swing by not quite extending my arms, whatever, whatever, I'm going to take it. Like it's always that shortest path of least resistance to get to that. Like intensity answer. And what we're saying is like, right. That's not, that's not the thing. The other thing we're saying is some of those higher skill movements.
00:30:03
Speaker
if we're saying today is a day where we really do want people to generate intensity. The safest way to get people the most intensity is not going to be with a high skill movement. A snatch, a muscle up. And it's also like some of the, not every movement. Should be done fast. Not every movement should be done fast. And the whole thing,
00:30:31
Speaker
And the whole thing with it is like, I don't know. And someone can probably rip me apart on this, but like, so, yeah, fine. I'd love to have the conversation with a lot of the highly cyclical movements and a lot of kipping, your ligaments and tendons are doing most of the work.
00:30:56
Speaker
The hormonal response comes as a result of using the musculature that, that moves the structural system that moves your bones. Your fucking ligaments and tendons don't create a hormonal response. So if you were to do something, but you can still move like that. Yes. We've said like bending your arm like this.
00:31:22
Speaker
which kind of takes us back to like what we were saying about seeing movement. I could be bending my arm and you see that my arm is bending. But am I really using my bicep and can you tell? And like, no, I'm not versus flexing my bicep. So they're two different things and one is extracting benefits to the musculature and one is not. Yeah. And so that is the thing with intensity as it has been defined as force times distance over time or just work output. Yes.
00:31:52
Speaker
There's more to it.
Human Element in Workout Programming
00:31:54
Speaker
Yes. And an example of what we're saying, a good, I think, easy one for people to understand is the pushup. Perfect. People getting from point A to point B, we've seen many people go from the top of a pushup, a plank to the floor and back to the top of the plank. Yeah. Not a pushup, not extracting the benefit of the shoulders, the chest, the lats. Broken midline. They're just warming. Yes. Warming. Versus a pushup
00:32:22
Speaker
that's intended to really get a benefit. And I think that's the, we've, and I, we know I've, I struggled to like come on board with this. Like there's such a programming with CrossFit of like, yes, the time and the, the speed at which you can get from point A to point B that it does feel like, well, why would I do it that way? It's slower. Well, why is because.
00:32:49
Speaker
the way a getting it done faster is not benefiting you in terms of your fitness. But this being a slave to the clock is kind of one of the pitfalls, I think. Yeah. So there's things within the CrossFit methodology that
00:33:09
Speaker
would help free yourself from the clock. The problem is, and this is over 11 years of affiliate ownership, what we've identified is the human element is going to always, always, always trump the doctrine and the manual.
00:33:25
Speaker
and what it says. Yeah, it says don't speed. And yeah, the original Glassman thing with the squat, the air squat was to master the air squat before you add load. Yes. But that is a convenient thing because it's not fun. Right. But it's like, yeah, we got that. But there's this thing. Right. And you know, so we're not saying CrossFit. It's not necessarily
00:33:44
Speaker
We're not poo-pooing CrossFit. We're saying the expression of CrossFit over the years in the affiliate setting, there are some things that have become pitfalls. Without a doubt. And not everybody to back to the previous thing, like people don't walk into the gym anymore.
00:34:01
Speaker
having read the level one manual, having watched all the videos. Like wow, I found you guys. Like remember, it was like, yeah, it was like I finally found you. I've been doing this too. Oh my God, there's a safe house for me to go to and we can unite. That is no longer the case. So, you know, but people sure as heck know what a kettlebell swing is. Yes, kettlebells are now at 24 Hour Fitness. Yeah, and with Instagram, like novelty does not mean effective.
00:34:29
Speaker
And it's like, Oh, look at this. I'm going to, I'm going to put a band around my neck, hold the kettlebell upside down. Uh, you know, and it's just like, what are you doing? What are you doing? You're a circus animal. So, so I think what we're saying, just to kind of keep us not from going totally off-roading here is, um, so what we're saying is there's some movements that are.
00:34:54
Speaker
more beneficial, there's some movements that we don't feel like really have a place in terms of how much value they offer versus the risk. We're also saying like, okay, this structural piece is important. It's important to introduce that. And we're looking at
00:35:12
Speaker
Yes. In the, in the course of a week, not just having everything be like my heart rate got up. I sweated. I moved for 12 to 15 minutes and yes, I flailed my body around. Okay. So then we have though conditioning workouts where we try to keep the, you know, the movements generally a little more simple, less complex. And the goal there is to generate some intensity. Then we've introduced the notion of a stamina workout, less about the clock. Usually they're longer.
00:35:42
Speaker
They might include some rest. You're kind of moving from one station to the next. It is funny though, whenever we do these and we've done them for months now, as soon as let's go the first round, people just are running. And then we're like, Hey, it's 30 minutes. Yeah. And it was a 25 minute workout. Teams of three, 10 teams of four.
00:36:04
Speaker
Teams of four, 10 sandbag lunges. 10 strict dips. And we did them very well. Yes, of course. 10 strict dips, 50 foot reverse sled drag. And then you rest. Yeah, and then someone rests. First round. Running. Running to the station. Like, oh my god. Yeah. By the end of it, I'm having conversations with people being like, you know, it's OK to take a round off. Sure. And the week before, you did one where it was 35 minutes. And yeah, people in that. What did I do?
00:36:34
Speaker
I coach the one you did with the rope pull, and the bike, and the coach of single arm poachers. But it's just funny, because that's how people initially, even still, were so conditioned to go make up. So anyway, stamina, that usually, yeah, it's generally less intensity, but more focused on stamina. You're going to have to work, though. You are working. You have to work. The muscular stamina component of it is such that you have to work, and you have to pay attention to.
00:37:03
Speaker
You have to be engaged, and it's long. So the intensity inherently, yes, it is going to go down. Yeah, if you were to plot it. You should feel like you are fatigued and just need to go take a nap after. Not necessarily like, wow, I feel like I'm going to throw up or well, maybe, but I need to like bring my heart rate down. You're just you're like the stamina stuff kind of also I did those
00:37:28
Speaker
usually twice a week when I was in special force qualification course. And they were much longer at that point. But it was like, I'm going to basically build myself to where I can keep going forever and be strong. And when I get to wherever I'm going, do whatever my job is going to be. This does not run to the corner and back, which there's value to.
00:37:54
Speaker
This was like, I'm going to never stop working. Yeah, and I think there's also, when we talk about the mental component, which we did allude to talking about the Ironman and stuff like that, those are the workouts where you get 10 minutes in, you're like, oh my God, I still have to do this for 20 minutes. And there's value to that not being in that 12 minute kind of, both physically and mentally. So that's the stamina. We do that once a week, program once a week.
00:38:23
Speaker
And then we have, we'll call it like a strength day, a day that is the priority there is you're going to spend generally we say 15 minutes on a pressing, squatting or hinging movement. Which the only reason we say spend 15 minutes on that is because we only have 60 minutes.
00:38:40
Speaker
Correct. If we had a longer class. It would be great to just say like, this is all we're going to do. And depends on the mood as we've identified pressing as a shorter session than a deadlift session. And here's the thing with that too, where the crossfit kind of thing comes into play. Yes, there are.
00:38:57
Speaker
CrossFit prescribes heavy base. Yeah. Deadlift. That's all you're doing. Understood. The doctrine is there. Understood. The people that are going to deadlift are going to be the people that enjoyed to deadlift and
00:39:17
Speaker
Not don't need to, but the people that really need to deadlift. Hate deadlifting and don't want to cook. And I'm sorry, I think to punt it and say, then you're not doing a good enough job educating people? No. You're not doing a good enough job paying attention to human nature.
00:39:31
Speaker
Sure. It's, I mean, and that's all of us. Like there are things that we all prefer and don't prefer. And are you good at them? Are you not good at them and all that? So on those days, though, I think it's important to identify that's where kind
Individualized Workouts and Structural Integration
00:39:43
Speaker
of that structural piece for us, we identified as a day for people that are maybe good at deadlifting or strong enough. That is a day they can really.
00:39:53
Speaker
perform and execute a strength day where they are moving loads. People that are newer, that's a day and I think you coined the phrase movement exposure. They're getting exposed to that movement and it's super valuable and something that'll translate into obviously everything else they're doing. But to just say that this is a heavy day for people,
00:40:14
Speaker
in the general population of a gym, that doesn't make sense because it's individual specific relative. This is a really out of breath day. For some people, it might be like, no, hey, check it out. And our Something to Move program has been great with this, where it's like, look,
00:40:31
Speaker
The fact that you are here is a major victory. If it is a major victory that you're here and you had a crazy day, didn't get a lot of sleep, super stressed, been in the car for two and a half hours, yeah, just move. Because we know what happens after 20, 30 minutes of moving. Blood's flowing, endorphins are going. You're also in this environment that has been created, which facilitates transformation. That's good for today. Yeah. Yeah.
00:40:57
Speaker
If you're out of breath, if you could read a magazine during it, or if you could have a conversation with your partner rowing during it. That's great. Yeah. That's great. So individual specific. So that's what our strength is. And we do, and again, this is like, okay, so we usually follow it up with something that is generally not for time.
00:41:19
Speaker
but offers a little reinforcement, a little practice of that movement in some way. So if today, today we have a push press at the gym, but then following it, there's a Z press, there's a plank and there's a little bit of a bike.
00:41:33
Speaker
And then we kind of have like a flex day that this is sort of evolving still. We had some days that were strictly endurance. What we like about that is someone can come in who feels really good. It is low skill. They can like really get after it, produce high intensity if they need, or it could be like, wow, it's a minor miracle. I'm here. Right. And you're just like, Hey, just breathe. And like you said, read a mat, like have that magazine pace.
00:41:57
Speaker
And it's also intentionally not loading. Yeah, it's a de-loaded day, yeah. So like, yeah. The world's greatest back squatters could have perfect mechanics. The fact that they are squatting 1,000 pounds, their spine is still going to feel the impacts of that. And they do it, and they have cores that are, you know, tree trunk, that are, you know, incredible. So the amount of loading we are putting onto our joints, our soft tissue,
00:42:26
Speaker
You need a day. You need a day away from that. And what we know is there are people that are coming a lot. So being responsible to program that. And, and we've kind of started to add this notion of like the, the, the bodybuilding stuff, like there's some value to isolating certain muscles working those. So that's the day that kind of can also, we can kind of, you know, alternate that. So what we're saying is,
00:42:55
Speaker
It's a lot. We think about what the movements are that really add value now, how we're structuring the programming. And we do rotate all those days. So it's not like every Tuesday's stamina, because we want people with their schedules to be in the course of a month, not just ending up hitting, if I come Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, and those are always this, this, this, that's limiting. Yeah.
00:43:17
Speaker
And then we're saying, um, the structural piece, we're starting to include that sort of in the warmup, um, trying to extract like something more structural. That is necessary to, to execute something that's maybe a little more complex that's coming up in the workout.
00:43:35
Speaker
and using that for people to build this element tree foundation. Yeah. I can tell you to get your knees down, your heels out, your toes pointed, all that stuff. But like, if you don't know how to use your hamstrings, who cares? Yeah. And it's not a function of you not hearing. Right. So that's kind of how we're looking at the gym. What our sort of methodology is, I think our Motown methodology, like how we see it. I do think it's interesting that, you know, we'll, I think,
00:44:07
Speaker
There's certainly people that are bummed like, Hey, I just want to snatch on Monday, hang clean on Tuesday. Yeah, for sure. Heavy kettlebell swing overhead on Wednesday. And then keeping, I want to do muscle ups and whatever, enhancing pushups and pistols. And what we're saying.
00:44:26
Speaker
is we're not judging those people. No, of course not. I get it. And we do have open gym times. You know, that's a topic too that I remember like open gym, not open gym, like, oh, like you have to do this programming. We're kind of saying like, hey, if there's stuff you're doing that you really want to do, if you're following ham plan, if you're following some other thing that's very CrossFit centric, great. We are providing time, equipment, space for you to do that. Right.
00:44:53
Speaker
Um, so there is that, but from a, what we're going to program for, we think, and what we've experienced for ourselves is getting us fitter. I mean, that's what's funny. Like we hadn't moved to barbell in six months. We went and did a barbell workout. You did very well with it. It was the standard workout from the games.
00:45:12
Speaker
I didn't find it as challenging as like the sandbags. I didn't get as much value out of it. So what we're saying is it's not just like all of a sudden we're for no reason anti-barbell. We're not anti-barbell. There's value to it. We're saying there's things that are better. If we want to say like, and I remember, you know, the CrossFit Level 1, hey, if we found out, and this is a quote, that roller skating and hula hooping was going to get you fitter,
00:45:41
Speaker
we would throw all this away and we'd all be roller skating and hula hooping. And that's what you would see on the main site on Monday. Are we actually doing that? Or are we as a community married to like, no, no, no, no, it's gotta be the hang clean with a barbell. We're saying. I don't, no one knows, but if you were to look at crossfit.com,
00:46:00
Speaker
Yeah, they're hula hooping and roller skating. 119. Right. They're hula hooping and roller skating. And so we're saying, yeah, we do believe that. And we do. Ironically, I feel like we are committed to what that doctrine is. And so for us, what we're finding, what we've been experimenting with, and you more so than me, for years now. Yeah. And now we're saying, OK. It wasn't like a week of doing sandbag squats. We're like, oh, this is so cool. We're going to do it. No.
00:46:29
Speaker
This has been years of experimenting and saying, okay, from this experience, from that experience, from all this stuff, I've put myself through as a guinea pig. Now we are saying, yes, we know this is valuable and we're going to present it. We have a responsibility to bring that to our gym members. If we didn't, you know, I was talking about this with Dave Thatcher who does raw thing. And we are talking about just the challenges of our position.
00:46:58
Speaker
And I said to him, it's, and he does work that is painful. Yes. I mean, there's a degree of pain, but it is not comfortable. Now, it would be like people, him saying, I'm just going to do massage because it's people like that more like massage is, you know, it's, there's people that are asking me like, Oh, I don't do massage when he really believes that like maybe massage isn't really what's going to help this person. Yes. And he's a killer. Yeah.
00:47:28
Speaker
There's a conflict there, internal conflict. And that's kind of what we struggled with. Like we cannot just turn the other way and say like, even though we know what's best, like that's our job is to be responsible to the people that are entrusting us and to deliver that. And I would also say, you know, for people who are either obviously members of Motown or if you're not a member and let's just say you're, you know, wherever California.
00:47:59
Speaker
If you feel conviction on doing something, let's take the snatch because it's a great example. Yeah. And the snatch is something that prior to CrossFit, nobody did this. Olympic lifters did.
00:48:14
Speaker
Yes, Olympic lifters did. And the USAW should write CrossFit a big old check every year because the reason they're relevant and the reason they're afloat today is 100% of your crossfit. And Coach Berger would say the same thing. And Coach Berger would say the same thing. Of course, the people holding on would say, no, it's not from CrossFit. CrossFit also has the same people holding on. Yeah. Anyway, nobody did the snatch. Olympic lifters did the snatch. Yeah, it was not fitness.
00:48:45
Speaker
now people do the snatch. And it's like, yeah, I'm doing this. Okay, fine. Cool. It's nice to learn new things. You're also doing it in a totally different context than somebody in Coach B's garage where it's like, Hey, you're going to snatch a fucking broomstick for three years first. Now talk to me about how much you want to snatch.
00:49:08
Speaker
But people have the ability, especially if they have any sort of strength background, not a crazy amount of strength, but people understand and they have the ability to take the barbell from ground, heave it over their head and they call it a snatch. And it's like, I did the snatch and they likely get celebrated.
00:49:29
Speaker
So there's positive reinforcement. And now we're saying like, Hey, yeah, the barbell snatch in a general fitness program, so far low on the priority list, it's actually off the, off the list. So if you really want to get better, then you wouldn't do that.
00:49:50
Speaker
And it's like, yeah, but the snatch, I have such, I have my principle about doing the snatch. And it's like, okay. If you feel that that goes both ways, because then I would tell you, let's really look at your movement.
00:50:10
Speaker
under the guise of like, through principle and through feeling strongly about something. Like the eyes of Olympic lifting. And if you're going to do that movement justice. Right. And if you're going to say, if you're going to defend the snatch, then let's take a look at it. And most people. They're heaving the bar from the ground to the overhead. It's not a snatch. So don't tell me you want to do a snatch when I see you, when your back looks like a question mark.
00:50:37
Speaker
You're pressing the bar up. You catch it with bent elbows and you punch it out in front of you. Then you start to drop the bar before your knees are fully extended. That is not a snatch. You've moved the bar and you've done something, but that's not a snatch. Same thing with the jerk. So I was recently at the active life seminar. So many people, participants talking about how their shoulder hurts during jerks. And it's like, yeah, right. Because you probably don't jerk. The jerk is catching the bar with fully locked out arms.
00:51:08
Speaker
Most people press it out. The hang clean. No, most people just heave the bar. You don't use the hamstrings, the glutes, and some of the erectors to do that. And you see these games athletes cycling a 115-pound bar. And it's like, yeah, because they can do that. That is a forearm workout for them.
00:51:29
Speaker
For you, it's not. So I think the thing for us to all look at and honestly, and this is where some of the mindset comes into it with your having intention and mindset with your fitness. Look at your movements. Look at the ones you love to do.
00:51:46
Speaker
Maybe the ones that you're like, all right, Bill and Kay, like pound sand, I'm still going to snatch. Look at the ones you hate to do. And just look at why it is you like to do them. What's your relationship to them? What is it? Do you fully understand it? Would you be willing to say, you know what, I'm going to master this movement in the next six months and as a result, not do these other movements? Because we all have, I mean, that is something CrossFit does talk about. You cannot have it all all at once. We've we all know that. Right.
00:52:16
Speaker
Yeah. And I think some of it is, um, yeah, just, it's a simple thing too of like, great, people want to get a handstand pushup. Okay. Like you can get that handstand pushup today.
00:52:32
Speaker
and continue doing it. And it's a 50-50 shot of if your shoulder goes bye-bye or you can like build the strength, really do the hallmark because you really want that handstand pushup. And then when you get to the point where you can do it and execute it properly, now you have it and you can add that to your toolbox. So we're not saying that the handstand pushup is inherently just like a terrible, horrible movement. It's just that people are taking that shortcut there. And in the context of the gym, in a group setting,
00:53:03
Speaker
The benefit of the group is the camaraderie, the energy. Yes. The downfall is you cannot, and it's not a function of like, I'm a really good coach or I'm not a really good coach.
00:53:16
Speaker
If the degrees of people's shoulders at that point, I can't possibly in an hour-long class and teaching a workout and a warm-up and whatever deal with everybody's unique situation of their shoulder to identify what they need for the handstand push-up. Nobody's that good. So then on the other side of things, one of the things I think we're introducing
00:53:39
Speaker
and trying to continue to have people ask the question about is, and we've said this for a long time, like really grasping like more is not more.
00:53:49
Speaker
You know, finding these different, more is not better. Right. More is not better. And looking at like, what did my week look like? Is it all the same? You know, Anthony RPT, um, sends out every, our newsletter, he contributes something and he showed me yesterday, this awesome writeup he's done on recovery and kind of like.
00:54:11
Speaker
Yeah. If you're hitting that same at con every day and you think that's your max, it's actually not because you're never fully recovering. So now you're kind of robbing yourself of the potential to actually go harder. So having that differentiation, not every, every day shouldn't feel the same when you come into the gym. So we're trying to educate people on that. And by way of.
00:54:31
Speaker
stamina, strength, like we're kind of pushing people into those shoots, but also trying to get people to connect with like an honest look at the factors they're coming into the gym with. So like you said, STM, something to move, really trying to honor what they need, not get carried away with the class, not get carried away with the energy, not feeling like intensity is always the answer.
00:54:55
Speaker
trying to connect with like, if I'm stressed, if in my case, I need seven days off to recover from what I did, you know, a couple of weeks ago with the race, like really honoring that and not fueling that addiction to just coming into the gym and having it be this means to an end. So that's part of it.
Fitness Methodology Evolution and Its Impact
00:55:19
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And you're going to learn so much more about yourself.
00:55:24
Speaker
as a result of looking at how you show up or how you come into or how you approach your fitness, and you might question some things. That's the thing about this. The people that have been members for 11 years,
00:55:41
Speaker
can very easily look back and be like, hey, but we did that. We're like, yes, we know. And what we're saying is we've been paying attention. We've been learning and we've evolved. Yeah. And we've been getting better. And, you know, we also used to smoke cigarettes on airplanes. Crazy. So, you know, did you ever smoke cigarettes on airplanes? No, I'm not as old as you are. OK. So it's funny. So just one other thing.
00:56:11
Speaker
What we're also doing through some of our components, structural stuff specifically, and some of the movements, is that we are both elevating fitness and improving areas of the body that have traditionally not been improved upon. They've been ignored. Through, yeah, either any movement or through the actual workout. And an example of this is me and my hips.
00:56:37
Speaker
I've had low back stuff. I was a soccer player. I had an aggressive single leg plant plus a rotation torque and just unleashing movement in the kicking movement a billion times. Yeah, my hips have been a little off. Back injuries, crazy stuff in the military, blah, blah, blah.
00:57:00
Speaker
My hips feel great. My hips feel really, really good now. One of the assessments we did at the active life thing was for hips.
00:57:11
Speaker
And, you know, I had probably eight people or five people or however many people come through and they're like, wow. Like your hips are great. Like what you must, you must do a lot of, you must do a lot of stretching mobility. I said, no, I they're like, they're like, no, like, but you're like a strong, like you're like a bigger guy. I said, yeah, I squat a heavy sandbag like once a week. Right. And they were like, say what now?
00:57:35
Speaker
Like, yeah, I squat a heavy sandbag for reps multiple, like one, at least once a week. And I've been doing that for almost three years now. And it was like, huh. It's like, yeah, the rubber band and the, and the, and the stretching while they have some value, they're also something that like, I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm sorry.
00:57:59
Speaker
I'm also, by doing that sandbag squat. Getting more other things out of it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so that's one of the things that we're really excited about. And you've said there's areas that get neglected, like, and I can't remember what it was I was watching or. But, you know, yes, the back side of the shoulder, like in cross, if you're not doing a lot of strip clubs, you're not activating like that part. Like there's certain parts of the body if you're not
00:58:28
Speaker
paying attention to them and not specifically working them that just kind of get the, the, the smaller muscles, like they're just not getting as much attention, single legs. So we're trying to round out.
Fun in Fitness and Customization Services
00:58:41
Speaker
I will say the other, the last thing to kind of finish it off with is the notion of fun. So that's like a thing that comes up, like, is it fun? And I think, you know, sort of to,
00:58:57
Speaker
play off like what you said, like looking at your relationship with fitness. And, you know, one of the things I think was fun when I look back at 2008 was like learning, like people, this is fun. Cause it's new. Like, wow, I've never done this. I've never felt like this. That's kind of like some of the fun. I think some of the fun is the camaraderie, the community.
00:59:20
Speaker
And sure some movements like and I've always had this relationship with like I want it to be fun I want to do stuff. I like yes, we're not saying we're gonna just now make this all homework and like Right, you know like yeah high-level train, right? Yeah, there's definitely in those met cons and there there's certainly fun We're just saying there's a balance you can still be fun and look at how you're interpreting it if the only things you're gonna allow yourself to have fun with are
00:59:48
Speaker
you know, your little list of the things you like to do, no matter what you're doing, CrossFit or otherwise, that's going to be limiting. Yeah. And I think looking at that, like, how do you because how I describe how you don't know what fun is so we can't really you don't have fun. I have fun. So but yeah, what I'm saying is, look at
01:00:13
Speaker
Just like be curious with yourself. Look at like, Hey, I think this is fun. Okay. What is it that you find fun? What does fun mean to you? What are some factors at play that, that allow you to have fun? Because within fitness, because fun on a Friday night.
01:00:32
Speaker
For some people might be like going to the movies. Fun in fitness would be like, oh, it's fun for me to go and challenge myself. It's fun for me to learn something new. It's fun for me to achieve something I didn't achieve and feel good. There are different definitions of fun. And here's my thing. It's fun to not be your social fun. Fun is not a feeling. Fun is not an emotion. Fun is a thought of what?
01:00:56
Speaker
I just pictured you wearing a shirt with like fun and like just the big circle with the X through it. I'm going to make you that shirt. Just fun. No. Anyway, fun is a four letter word fun period. Fun is a label. Fun is a rational construct. It is part of your rational mind. Fun is not a feeling. Fun is not an emotion.
01:01:28
Speaker
Okay. So fuck your phone. Okay. Anyway, that is just something. What I'm saying is look at it. Look at like, and what I'm asking why I say that is to say when you say, Hey, that's fun. Peel it back. Peel it back. What does that mean to you? And then it's like, wow. When you see them this,
01:01:48
Speaker
you can take that and you can insert that into other elements. You can recreate those elements and now you're empowered and now you have the ability to make fun where you previously thought you could not make fun. So that's kind of what we're saying. That's kind of what we're doing. For people who are listening, who are or are not members of the gym,
01:02:13
Speaker
you know, we have the general programming that is classes. And then we also have some opportunities for people to do some individual, you know, as we said, there is a point at which people now for individual stuff, if someone has a goal, if someone has limitations, while we can certainly scale and adjust in a workout, we do offer that individual overlay. So you don't have to leave the gym.
01:02:39
Speaker
You don't have to leave your gym. If you're listening, you're like, ah, yeah, like, there's something missing, but I really love my gym. I need help and guidance. Yeah. That's, that's one of the things we do offer. So we're starting that at the gym. We, we do, um, have folks that we, uh, make adjustments for specifically within that workout that doesn't take them into some whole other workout. It doesn't make the coach have to do something different, but it's just some small, some guidance for them to really get the most out of what the gym is offering. So.
01:03:08
Speaker
If that's something, or if you're curious or like, Hey, I love my gym, but they're not really doing this. How do I make sense of it? We, we want to help people. It's not just about if you don't come to Morristown. Yeah. So that's it. All right. I think it was okay. I think there's a lot there. Yeah. And, and we really, you know, I think we've had some questions. Um, we love to like have a discussion and there's not one
01:03:39
Speaker
This isn't absolute. This is our, what we've, where we've come to. And, um, so we would love to have people ask questions, be curious about this stuff. You know, we welcome that. Yeah, for sure. So that's a little late, but we're going to get it out a little late, but we'll put it up so you can have it on your ride home instead of your ride to work. Um, all right, cool. See you. Bye.