Transcript
Speaker: you
Speaker: Hello everybody! Welcome to 2BiGuys. It is the season 10 finale. Episode 10. Season 10. Holy moly. I can barely believe it.
Speaker: I did do the math, however. not 100th episode, even though I mostly have stuck to 10 episode seasons. In season 8, we did 12 episodes. So this is the 102nd episode for some reason.
Speaker: I don't remember why did that. I guess there was just a lot to get to. So last episode was not the 99th, even though we discussed that. This is not the 100th. And I did love Amanda's idea about doing sort of a retrospective episode with former guests or doing an episode with coaching clients about how they're moving forward.
Speaker: I didn't have time to do that for today. So something else is going to happen today. But that was an amazing idea that I would love to do. So I'm going to find ways to do that. I'll get a sign up list going of if you might be interested in being interviewed. I've got a lot of coaching stuff planned for the fall. So stay tuned. None of that's happening now because I wanted to get this episode out. But stay tuned for more.
Speaker: And I will discuss that more at the end of this episode. Also stay tuned for season 11, which I will discuss more in the second half of this episode. It's going to be a different type of season. I'm really excited for it. We've already recorded the first three episodes and it will be coming soon.
Speaker: What I did want to do today is share with you a wonderful interview I did with a guy named John Paul Davies. I went on to his YouTube show for the second time, and we had an amazing conversation about mixed orientation marriages, this idea of if I realize I'm bi within a straight passing marriage, do I need to explore it? What happens if I do? What happens if I don't? How do we negotiate that? I've been starting to coach women who are in relationships with queer men in addition to the queer men. So without breaching their privacy, I have shared a little bit of what I'm learning about this dynamic and how to navigate it. I just think this is one of the most hidden but largest groups in the world. There's so much to navigate there and there's so little examples and resources.
Speaker: So what I want to do today is share the first half of that interview. I'll put it into this feed. You can hear it there. And if you like what you hear, you can head to YouTube for the rest. The entire interview is there. It's already up. And I would encourage you to subscribe to John Paul Davies because he's doing great work, not exclusively about bisexuality or even sexuality, but he covers related topics. He's a therapist.
Speaker: Wonderful interviewer. And you get to hear me be interviewed on this feed for once. I like to ask the questions, but I really like to answer them and to talk as you might be able to tell.
Speaker: So you get to hear me talk for a while in this one. And we really discussed what is behind my coaching philosophy, which is that there's no one size fits all approach for these marriages. There are so many different types of outcomes.
Speaker: It's really about finding what is the most aligned path for you and then navigating that with love and grace. So you'll hear all about that. And then stay tuned on the other side of this interview. I'm going to talk a little more about what's coming next season, a little about my coaching practice, and then we'll wrap season 10. Oh my God. Okay. So here you go. Here is the first half of my conversation with John Paul Davies.
Speaker: Enjoy.
Speaker: Hi, I'm John Paul and a really warm welcome back to the channel. Today I'm delighted to be continuing in conversations around bisexuality and specifically bisexuality within but mixed orientation relationships, so perhaps matt marriage, and how that's navigated. i mean, my videos around bisexuality started really with a video about connecting with a bisexual identity within straight-facing relationships. So that is a big issue for people, I think, is how to go from a place of awareness, you know, if you're even going to confirm identity, is there a process of, say, exploration through experience that's needed? And in that case, how is that navigated within, i was going to say the confines, but of course, it's also lovely to be in ah long-term committed relationships, monogamous relationships. So how is that navigated? In order to have the conversation, I'm absolutely delighted to have on a returning guest. His name is Rob Brooks-Cohen. You will recognize him from before. Rob is um a podcast host, host of the Two Buy Guys by One Buy Guy.
Speaker: which a lot of people I think will will have seen. um Very popular podcast. He's also a coach and he coaches people specifically in in situations like this. And also the author of an amazing book called Bisexual Married Men, Stories of Relationships, Acceptance and Authenticity. So there are very few people in the world, I think, that have the kind of experience in this area that Rob does. So absolutely delighted to have you back on, Rob. Thank you for agreeing to come on.
Speaker: Yeah. Thank you, John Paul. I'm glad to be here. I loved our conversation last time and um there's, so there's always so much more to get into in this experience. And I like, you know, the cut within the confines of a marriage can be nice and cozy. Sometimes just confines can sometimes be lovely and restrictions can build intimacy. But, but yes, I, I also take your point that Sometimes people want to expand beyond the arrangements that have been made. So but we'll get into it.
Speaker: Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, I was thinking with the thumbnail for this video, ah to put the words, do I have to Because the the actual context for this is that a couple of people have said to me, when they've come to an awareness about their identity, and some people only some people go into long-term relationships with an awareness, other people realize at some point,
Speaker: during and a question I will often get asked is something you know do I have to open the relationship what does this mean as far as my that sexual part of me the same sex attraction so yeah that was that was really the thing as well that uh generated having the conversation and you help people navigate as I do uh those kind of situations often so what would your initial reflections be That's funny because I was working on a coaching resource yesterday and posing that exact question in in the text of what I was writing. Like, so do I have to explore this? You know, I've realized this. What do what do I do next?
Speaker: And, you know, I have like the the real answer is is a nuanced one and maybe not going to be so ah helpful and initially, which is like,
Speaker: You don't have to, some men don't, but you also might want to, or you might need to. And it really is individual. And depending on the person in the situation, like there's no easy answer. It's a calculation you might have to make. The desire to explore it is very normal. And many, many people experience that,
Speaker: um And also like the love for ah if you're already in a committed partnership, the love and relationship you've built there can sometimes be a ah barrier to exploring sex with other people because many people are monogamous and that's valid to want and common also. yeah.
Speaker: but Yeah, I've seen it go both ways. Some guys are content to come out and realize that they have sexual fluidity and to be able to talk about it and share it, but they don't have to be with other people and they're perfectly happy once they move through that, not to explore it or or if not perfectly happy.
Speaker: they're making that sacrifice for the benefit of their partnership and the agreements they've made. And like, it's a sacrifice they're willing to make. And then, and then I've also seen a lot of people who do need to explore it or want to explore it so much that it's getting in the way if they don't. um And that can be,
Speaker: challenging within a partnership. Some people will stay together through that and it's very difficult. And sometimes people will, you know, it's important enough to explore it that they're willing to risk the relationship. And sometimes the relationship ends because their partner isn't on board. So there's many, there's many different ways it can work out. And it's really just a matter of checking in.
Speaker: and you know, this is what I actually work with clients on, like do not like do you specifically who I'm talking to need to explore this or not? And what feelings and thoughts come up and what does it feel like to never explore this, to know you never will? And how does it feel to do it? And what, I just try to put people in the different energies. Like imagine you're there in each of these different scenarios, put yourself there.
Speaker: Okay. How does it feel? What, what come, what thoughts and feelings come up in you? And we, that's where we start and we kind of work through it. And it often ends up leading back to some core wound or some, something in their past or some feeling they have about,
Speaker: being authentic or being validated. Anyway, there's so many different places it goes, but it's really, it depends on what it's leading you to and where it's coming from in your life. That's a long answer.
Speaker: We like long answers. It's a podcast, a long answer. Perfect. Authenticity, that word's used a lot, isn't it? I mean, i said the title of your book has the word authenticity in it. And to decide in this situation what is authentic and what isn't, um but a lot of people would aspire to be authentic. There's all kinds of...
Speaker: things about showing authenticity on on social media. So that word is is used a lot, isn't it? But as you say, I i suppose when you're making a choice as to romantically, sexually, who you're going to be with, what we would want for someone is that it is based on authentically who they are, rather than avoiding something through fear, possibly. yeah um or I guess, pursuing something...
Speaker: ah for a reason other than authenticity. If you're looking at, you know, but sexual behavior, whatever that may have been repressed, that I suppose it could go, a funny kind of way, the other way. so what is the, how do you decide or, you know, what is authentic about, and I imagine it's a process too, isn't it? Through all this, there isn't necessarily a static process right a static situation for people. But it is, yeah, it's that authenticity, which is interesting. Yeah.
Speaker: Right. I mean, I do think it can change over time. and And one of the things that's coming up for me as you say that is like, It's not a fixed destination authenticity. It's a constant recalibration. And also like it, um, you can, sometimes you have to explore things to find out what is authentic. Like sometimes you have these desires, they're, they're moving you in a certain direction and that is important.
Speaker: to listen to and to see what's there. Like, I believe our desires are divine, but that doesn't mean like doing every single thing you fantasize about is authentic. That doesn't mean like every thought that pops into your head has to be acted out. And so I think it's important to like, listen to those desires and be honest about them.
Speaker: And and maybe, yeah, like if you feel like you you want to explore them and you've made arrangements in your life that that's OK, like. then yeah, explore it.
Speaker: But that doesn't mean you're going to stay in that place that you, like the actual exploration will help you feel what it is. And then you will have more information to figure out what is authentic to you. Maybe that thing you're fantasizing about changes something about you in a way you didn't expect. Like I think exploring sexuality can be very like a psychedelic experience. Like it's mind altering. It shows you things in a new way. And when it lives up here, it's in your head, it's different from when you actually acted out.
Speaker: And so the important thing is to just notice the feelings and the sensations and the thoughts that that come up and then you'll figure out what's authentic. And the, the word I'm using like more and more lately, rather than authentic, even though I said it is alignment.
Speaker: I'm really learning about like how to live in alignment and like allowing life to kind of flow through me as opposed to resisting and,
Speaker: So when I explore things, it's about like noticing, does this feel aligned? Do I feel in the flow of things? That's authenticity in another way of looking at it.
Speaker: Or like, where is resistance coming up? Can I let go of that resistance? Or is there resistance? externally or or also like when, you know, authenticity is not just about what do I want to explore sexually or live out in my sexuality, your commitments to your partner can be authentic and can be aligned. Your values are authentic.
Speaker: if they've been ah arrived at in an aligned way. And so you may have desire, but also it can be authentic and aligned to have limits to how you explore that and to make agreements with a partner. Like just because something isn't exciting doesn't mean it's not aligned. A boundary and a negotiated arrangement with a partner can help you live in alignment depending on on where you are and what your values are.
Speaker: Yes, I always quite like Calm and Alive, that balance for people of wanting stimulation and newness, I suppose, novelty, adventure, exploration, but also wanting ah that sort of safety, stability, calmness and having a balance of that. And I suppose within relationships, long term relationships, they can be exciting as well, can't they? But there is a lot of kind of familiarity, which is it gives people a sense of safety, doesn't it? So being able to balance those, I guess, in an
Speaker: in an ideal world. um You're talking there about like the internal journey, internal alignment as well. You mentioned external, so i the other person and the the relationship itself.
Speaker: A number of relationships, but number of people be in relationship with people who just won't accept anything other than monogamy. It's just not what they... but they want um As far in your work with people, what kind of things have happened there? I realise it's a very individual journey, but what what kind of things have happened there? If they've come up against a, no, this is not something that I would accept. yeah I mean, you know, I've seen it all again and and it's really a spectrum. And i would say more of the people who encounter that kind of roadblock, like I want to open it up and and my partner does not want to. Those are the ones that end up coming to me more because that's a big struggle and they don't know what to do. Whereas I think there are a lot of people who
Speaker: come out, want to open up and their partner is like, okay, maybe a little reluctant or maybe enthusiastic and they do it. And fewer of those people are, are coming to me for support. So I do see this a lot and I've seen it work in so many different ways, you know, like I've seen um You know, mostly it's by men coming to me who are married to women and often straight women, although I do work with some women as well. But that's mostly what's happening in my practice. And I've seen women who who are monogamous and they don't want to open up.
Speaker: And what I focus on with the men, because I'm mostly coaching the men, I'm not usually coaching both of them, although I am starting to work with the women a little more. But I'm mostly coaching the men. And I'm like, okay, you can't control your partner and you don't want to try to push her or convince her.
Speaker: That will not, like pushing too hard will not lead to the good outcome that you want of opening up. And so we focus on them and their... internal blocks and approaching this external block with alignment and with care and you know without with that sort of sense of calm and and why is this important to me not just like i want this and the the craving but why is this important you know aside from the excitement
Speaker: What is this doing for me? How am I exploring my identity? Why is that important to me? And what am I willing to accept? And what do I really need? So, you know, we focus on the one person. Okay, but your question is what ends up happening? I've seen some women who...
Speaker: are totally opposed to non-monogamy who over time through this process of you know getting real with their partners, they open up to it and they find a path towards it. And sometimes that's like a small window of explore, their they will allow their husband to explore in a certain way with boundaries and guidelines. Sometimes it's a little bigger, they'll both start exploring or they'll start exploring together. Or, you know, they both open up the marriage and that leads to new paradigms. um And I've seen many women who are opposed to it initially embrace it eventually, and they're grateful for it. And in the best case scenario, being with other people can bring the partnership closer together. And they'll actually develop more intimacy because of all the conversations around this stuff.
Speaker: And sometimes exploring sex with others leads you to appreciate what's there at home even more. That's sort of what I've found in my polyamory.
Speaker: And then, and then on the other side of things I've worked with guys who their wives will not open things up, um, or, you know, won't open it up enough to the, the, the guy's satisfaction or like, they can't really explore what they need to And then it's really a question of like, where are your values? What is important to you?
Speaker: You know, can you go the rest of your life without one or the other? Because you can't force these things together. There's another person involved. And so what is, is it more important to explore this part of your identity and have these experiences that Or is it more important to stay committed to this partnership?
Speaker: And then it often brings up, you know, a, a um, what's the word I'm looking for? uh, looking at the relationship and what's really gone on there and how aligned is the relationship for you. um Sometimes this is sort of a symptom of a relationship that wasn't aligned to begin with for other reasons. And so I do work with people who are going through divorce or separation or who eventually get to the point where they think or realize this isn't aligned. I can't be with this person. We're going to separate.
Speaker: And I would say most of the time when that happens, this revealed misalignments that were already there. It isn't like exploring outside the relationship is the only reason they end up separating.
Speaker: It's usually an indicator of other misalignments. Yeah. And so so that's sort of the other end of the spectrum. And then there's a lot of stuff in the middle where there's reluctant acceptance or narrow pathways to explore, but not full um fully whatever they want. So that's the spectrum of what can happen.
Speaker: And what do you, is it the kind of weekly basis you meet clients or how how do you do that? I mean, you talk about something, then they go out with it and come back or is it more ad hoc with people? the The most common cadence for my individual coaching is every other week.
Speaker: And I usually work with people for a few months every other week. And that gives them time to kind of implement some strategies, integrate it, come back with something new.
Speaker: um But I do love working weekly with people. I've worked with, you know, sometimes when people first come to me, we got to do weekly because there's just like a lot going on. And this is taking up a big amount of energy and brain space. And, you know, when it's new, it's like it it can just really become a focus. And that is understandable, especially if it's something that's been ignored for many years. Once you finally talk to a partner, you want to like,
Speaker: move things forward and keep talking about it and make progress. So I love working every week. And then I also do group coaching cohorts with a lot of men in this situation, by married men who are with women.
Speaker: And we meet weekly for six weeks in each cohort. And then, you know, I'll start a new one. And, and a lot of movement can happen in six weeks of like focus and, and in the groups, people learn from each other and really magic happens by just like seeing what other people are going through and how they're navigating it with their wives and,
Speaker: There's always like so differences in what's going on, but then so many similarities in and like the process and and how to communicate with their partners and how to be sensitive, how to be sensitive to their partner while also being aligned and authentic and sharing what's what's in them, you know, not hiding things or keeping things in just to protect the partner, but also like,
Speaker: you know, having boundaries and taking care of their feelings as well. o And that huge being part of a community, talking to other men in in similar situations, that was very healing, isn't it? Through relationship as well. That part of you that was out of sight possibly is now in relationship and accepted and even loved by others. um I suppose that of itself can change things very significantly for someone without even necessarily having to go out into the external situation.
Speaker: well, I say, you know, into the the the romantic relationship or sexual relationship and change things there. I just, it's, as I say, it's a journey, isn't it? So to see the effect of that, for it to be more known, for it to be accepted and loved, it is, yeah.
Speaker: Absolutely. I think, like, you've actually hit on such an important point. Like, so many people, when they get to me and they're navigating this, they think, you know, I have to figure this out. What am I going to do? How are we going to open the marriage? Like the opening or not is the thing that needs to be moved through. And what many of them find actually is that just talking about it is so healing, either if it's individual with me, but especially in the groups when they talk about it with each other, that that can shift things for them in a way that they didn't expect. And that moves the energy And then that, just like the validation and acceptance and the feeling of not being alone in this, that can shift things so much that it then changes the whole question of, do I need to explore this and how do I need to explore it? um And I think it's such an important foundation is like having this community and the support and the healing from that.
Speaker: I almost would say to people like, don't don't negotiate your relationship with your partner until you feel this sense of normalization, validation to feeling within you. Otherwise, you're not approaching that negotiation with the right energy and you might push towards something that that isn't really aligned. So i like I think that healing work is such an important first step.
Speaker: Absolutely. I would say exactly the same thing. I mean, in the context of groups or individual therapy as well, isn't it? Yeah, look at what it feels like once it's been brought to therapy and it's in a relationship or a group where it is accepted. That, from from a part that was turned against, there's such a difference, isn't it? If that's no longer the case, if there's less conflict around it, it transforms something. so um Absolutely. Yeah.
Speaker: Rob, alignment. let's use that word, also authenticity. we all love the sound of being in in alignment. If somebody was to say, um how do I know if I'm in alignment or not?
Speaker: what would you What would you say about that? um I mean, you know, notice where resistance is coming up. Resistance is an is an indicator.
Speaker: um That's a big one. And like resistance is also something you can kind of work through and find instead of resistance to whatever's happening, find trust in it, find trust in the universe. like Is that possible for you?
Speaker: If not, you may need to shift the circumstances. But in many circumstances, it's a mental state, like ah resistance versus trust. How do you, what was your, kind i something else came into my head and I lost it. What did you say? How do you find alignment or how do you know? How do you know how do you know whether you're in in alignment?
Speaker: um Because it it's interesting what you said there about resistance ah and trust. I suspect resistance, as if you're looking at an emotion, it's probably fear. Is it? Is that? Yeah, I think fear is the is the big one. um you know, worry about the future. Yeah, fear, you're making the wrong decision. um and i And I have been really cultivating and working on this soul trait of trust because I have a lot of anxiety and fear and especially fear that like I'm i'm on the wrong path. I should be doing this other thing. And I've really been trying to cultivate trust. I also think something you said earlier relates to how you know if you're in alignment and it's that feeling of calm and peace.
Speaker: Definitely. You don't have to feel that all the time. And like excitement is great. We want to feel excited at times. But like you don't necessarily need excitement every second. like And in fact, if you're jumping around from exciting thing to exciting thing, you might be pushing excitement.
Speaker: at something too hard and actually when you are living in aligned way you will feel that sense of peace and you will just have that inner knowing that you're on the right path and that you will that trust in the universe will will come and flow more freely so i think that's an important thing to notice is like do you Do you have a sense of calm and peace?
Speaker: Not every moment, but can you find it on a regular basis? And if not, maybe there's something misaligned. um Yeah. And like, are you moving towards the life that you want? And like, are good things happening? Like if you're if you're on the right path, I think you'll feel that calm and peace and nice things will be happening in your life.
Speaker: Yeah. So those are two things to look for. Yes, definitely. I would have said the same is how life feels often, isn't it? i I guess also living more intentionally rather than defensively. if If you're looking at a situation where somebody's been hiding sexuality or is in conflict about it, there's a lot of avoidance of things possibly looking looking away. Secrets, secrets.
Speaker: So yeah I suppose in alignment would be be possibly anxiety is always going to be part of life. Fear is helpful as well, isn't it? yeah But there is that sense of moving more intentionally ah through life. um And it feels a certain way. That feels like something, doesn't it? It's the presence of, as you say, calm, possibly, and excitement about the future, probably the absence of lots of fear, lots of anger. absolutely. Because I think yeah that's another thing which can often be the case where somebody has a sexuality that they're sort of keeping out of the way that's been somehow prohibited by the external environment. iss people feel out Men as well often are going to understandably feel angry about it.
Speaker: Yeah. yeah Absolutely. I think all all of those kind of emotions can come up. And, you know, when you're living with those more and more, it's difficult to live with.
Speaker: and And I think something to notice about all of that is like, how much, how able are you to speak what's in your mind? Like, can you share all this? I think the those emotions, fear and and anger and whatever else can get really stuck when they're when they're living inside us and we're not able to share them. And so allowing them to flow through you and out of you and and to share them with loved ones is like such an important piece
Speaker: of of alignment. And when you don't feel able to do that that, that'll lead to resistance. It'll lead to those feelings being amplified and taking up even more space inside of you. And so sometimes the first question isn't shouldn't be like, I need to explore this. How do I open up? How do i explore this? The first question should really be like,
Speaker: how can I be aligned and share what's in my head and say what I'm thinking? That's the first piece of alignment that that I try to work on with many clients is like, you got to just say this stuff to, you know, first you got to figure out how to say it to me and be really honest and open. Like just say it to anyone or even journal it and say it to yourself in in a sense.
Speaker: but don't just think it. you know You got to write it or say it to someone. And then how do you share that with loved ones? And that'll create intimacy and it could be difficult, but it it'll create the pathways forward to to releasing all that stuff.
Speaker: a As far as bringing me into relationship with loved ones, say a romantic partner, ah do you coach people on that? I know what they're going to say is...
Speaker: and in and an individual experience, isn't it? Their own individual thoughts. But are there ways you would suggest to tell someone or talk to someone about it? About like coming out or opening up or just any of it?
Speaker: And all of it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it is individualized. And like, oh what I find is a lot of the times, you know, I'll talk to a client and they have, you know, they'll tell me something that they haven't shared with their partner. And just because of like, what this space is, and what coaching is, and who I am, they feel comfortable sharing it, and they're not yet sharing it there.
Speaker: But then once they say it out loud to me, it gives them the whole framework. And I'll say like, okay, interesting. like that's And I'll validate what they're saying because maybe they haven't been validated for those things before. I'll normalize what they're saying.
Speaker: And then once I do that and they kind of it settles in them and they realize, oh, this is okay to think and feel and say, okay. I'll say like, to what extent have you shared that with your partner?
Speaker: And if they haven't, I'll say like, could you, like, how would you say it? And they would often, they'll often say like, well, I guess I could just say what I just told you. and I'm like, yeah, you could, like, what would that be like? So, so really,
Speaker: there isn't one way to say it or go about it. You just got say it to someone. And if you don't have a coach or you don't have a therapist or a friend or a group, I mean, real people are wonderful and there are support groups, there are therapists and coaches, but even without all that,
Speaker: Journal, you can write it down. Like I do morning pages every day. I write three pages every morning when I wake up. It's like a brain dump. No one else ever sees it.
Speaker: But when you take the thoughts out of your head and put them onto the page, they become real in a sense. You're putting a real thing into the world and then you can see them clearly.
Speaker: It's hard. It's harder to like deny it in your mind. And you kind of have to reckon with with what's there. And that can be scary, but it's so helpful. And so that's where I would say to start is just like, just write and journal and just free flow and keep the pen moving. Don't judge it.
Speaker: Don't worry about what you're writing. It doesn't have to be good writing. Just keep your pen moving and you'll start to create awareness and see what's in your mind and how you might say it, how you might not want to say it, you know, which parts of it you don't need to, you don't have to share every single thought in your head to be authentic.
Speaker: um But, but that creates awareness. And, you know, it's, again, it's always about finding that balance of Being truthful and open and also sensitive and you know your partner and you don't have to say everything all at once and finding that balance is different, looks different for each person.
Speaker: Yeah, absolutely. And it will there'll be a feeling of peace reading something, won't it, which incorporates all the various different bits, truthful, radical honesty, and then, as you say, bearing in mind the sensitivities and of a partner and their past experience as well, I suppose, past trauma or whatever it might be. There'll be a place, won't there, which feels... um which feels peace or, yeah, a balanced way of doing it. That's then delivered to the other person. You said you work with women as well? Yeah, I've started a group with women. guess those would be women who identify as bisexual, would they, rather than a partner's group? Well, I've worked... I've worked with some of those, but I'm also now running group for women who are in relationships with queer men and most of them are straight themselves. So this is a new kind of experiment. It's going well, but like I'm starting to work with that population too, because they're going through this thing where their husband came out and, you know, it's all interrelated. yeah. That's a new thing of interest. How do you find that, Rob? It's fascinating. I mean, work with them the same way. Like I don't teach them. don't tell them what to do or give advice. I'm really just holding space for them and normalizing and validating whatever's coming up and asking them questions.
Speaker: probing and empowering questions to help them figure out what they want to do moving forward. But i'm I'm enjoying and learning a lot seeing the other side of it because, you know, I hear about their point of view from the men I coach, but now I'm getting to hear directly like what feelings are coming up in them. And, you know, it's all valid and and interesting and it helps me see the possibilities of what can go on. But, um you know, each partnership is so individual, anything is possible. So, yeah. So there's no like rules I'm coming up with or anything.
Speaker: ah They would be in existing ah current relationships with, by men, would they? yeah Yeah. That's who I'm working with at the moment in this group. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. if If there are fears, there are a number of myths, aren't there, I think, that are out there about, particularly if if a man comes out as bi, about infidelity, potentially, um all those kind of things that inevitably is going to mean opening the relationship.
Speaker: um If those come up within groups,
Speaker: would you ever say anything about that?
Speaker: All right, that was the first half of my conversation with John Paul Davies. If you want to hear the answer to that question that we were left with and the rest of our chat, head over to YouTube. You can search for John Paul Davies. It's also on the Two Bye Guys feed, actually. I realized he collabed it with me, so it's on our feed as well, the full interview, and I will put a link in the show notes. So go check out the rest there. Now I want to talk about next season. And to do that, I recorded a little segment with my second bye guy. So the next season is going to feature one long extended conversation between two bye guys, me and my friend Clark Nesselrode. And he was on the podcast last year. so you've already met him.
Speaker: He's become a close friend and guide for me. I've hired him for some coaching and we're exploring a lot of these things together. He is a coach as well. And so I won't say too much more because we said it in this clip. Here is a little clip with me and Clark talking about next season.
Speaker: Hi, Clark. Welcome back to 2 Bye Guys. Good to see you. Nice to be here. Clark has been on the podcast before about a year ago. you can go back and listen to it. And we've already recorded the first three conversations of our upcoming season. But I wanted to share a little about what we're doing and where it might be going, which we don't totally know.
Speaker: But Clark and I have been having a conversation over the past year or so about sexual energy, which I didn't use to think of things that way. It was all sexuality and sex, which is great also. But I'm learning about sexual energy and having these conversations with Clark. And we just decided, let's start recording them. So we did. So next season...
Speaker: is going to be an extended conversation with just us. these These two bye guys right here. We might have some guests along the way. We might. That's true. I hadn't really even thought of that, but I could see that happening. Oh, I've definitely thought about that.
Speaker: Yeah, but it might even be more than a season. I don't know when this conversation will end. And so far with three, i have so many more things we haven't gotten to So who knows how long we'll at this. It definitely feels like it's heating up.
Speaker: Yeah, it's really it's been exciting for me. And it feels like it's at my edge of what I am comfortable talking about and what I know and don't know. We're at that edge. I'm not just sharing stuff I've figured out, which is how this podcast has become over many years. And so I'm thrilled for that.
Speaker: Let me throw it to you. How would you describe what we've been doing? I think we're exploring the cutting edge of your learning and understanding about what is deeper under the conversations we typically find ourselves having about sex and sexuality. I think the the key theme that seems to be emerging from these three discussions is how easy it how easy it is for us to slip into a
Speaker: sex is sex and we get turned on and we have sex and we have as much as we want and how natural it is in this period of life that we're living following so many decades, if not centuries of sexual repression and misunderstanding, how natural it has been, if not therapeutic, it has been for us to fall into more of a default mode of just liberated, out and proud, doing it as much as we want, as weird as we want. And as we've discussed so often, that's really important. And you can't get to the place that you and I are at if you don't go through that place. And yet, I've learned for myself, hyper-expressed version of sexual activity and behavior and relating to that energy is not the end of the road for me. There's actually been a road of coming to
Speaker: understand the impact of that energy and where it comes from and how tricky and slippery it is. Because sometimes we think we're really horny and we really want to express ourselves sexually. And I've learned for myself sometimes that actually that is the sensation that arises, yet it's something totally different that is happening. And we're exploring all of that and how it affects your life right now because things are coming up in your field that you're feeling super inspired by, but also having a lot of questions around that go to the heart of how sexual energy is expressing in your life and how you're choosing to relate to it.
Speaker: Indeed. Well said. It's funny because it's weird. We had one of our conversations yesterday and I was like super horny for since then. Not that not that you are turning me on, but it like something happened and I've been like really horny for the last 24 hours. That was interesting to hear.
Speaker: see it's a magnetic energy you talk about it you look at it you it doesn't take much to begin to activate that in us and there's nothing wrong with that that's a really good thing but to have the awareness to understand maybe there's something more going on there than what we've all been taught and what our default operating modes would tell us Yeah, indeed. Something I've adopted a belief that I've adopted over the last few years is that our desires are divine. Like we shouldn't try to repress our desires. They are leading us somewhere. They're telling us something. The question is like, what is it? And often our desires, it's great to fulfill them and have an experience and learn about ourselves through the fulfillment of that.
Speaker: And what I've also learned over time after fulfilling many desires is that not all of them must be fulfilled, especially in a pattern that I had gotten into after many years of exploration.
Speaker: i was in a cycle, a repetitive cycle that was not necessarily leading me towards anything. And at the same time, there are new desires and things that have popped up, such as my spicy Instagram account that we will talk about.
Speaker: And that has led me to this desire in me to create adult content. And if you've listened to this podcast, guess you know that I've interviewed many adult content creators and been very interested in that topic. I wonder why. And so i have not yet created adult content exactly.
Speaker: But that's a framing of our conversation and a way in to explore this. So if that interests you, come. We're all just decide if he should be a porn star.
Speaker: Send me your thoughts and comments and I'll do whatever you all say because I'm a people pleaser. no Okay, any other comments you want to share about the next about the upcoming season?
Speaker: I would just say tune in and keep an eye out for it because it feels like a really exciting conversation that we're having and it's forcing me to...
Speaker: really look at my belief systems around sex and sexual energy. it has been stirring up things from my sexual past related to fetish and kink and all of these things that it's a Pandora's box that I think we'll be exploring through this in many other lifetimes. And so if you want to look under the hood at what is all this sexual energy about, come join the conversation because I think it's, I think... We're discussing some things you're not going to hear about a lot of other places. And that's what feels super interesting to me.
Speaker: Yeah, indeed. And it's very new stuff for this podcast too. It's related to everything I've been exploring and talking about, but it feels like the next level for me at least.
Speaker: So stay tuned. It's coming soon. I don't know the exact date, but this is not months away. This is coming soon and fast and where the conversation is moving quickly. So get ready for a new pace of this podcast.
Speaker: Okay, while you're here, a quick plug. Clark is hosting, along with some other people, a retreat that's coming up soon.
Speaker: i am not officially organizing it, but I will be there. i will be helping in certain ways to be determined. And this kind of work is something I'm moving towards in my coaching practice as well. I'm sure there will be more retreats that we are co-facilitating in the future.
Speaker: And so tell us a little about this retreat, because I think some of these listeners might be interested. Sure. Yeah, it's a really interesting thing to talk about because what my partner David and are holding is born out of and an extension of the plant medicine work that we've been facilitating for the last three and a half years. Bringing groups together to sit with sacred plant medicines in intentional ceremonial ways that allows those medicines to be received in a different way than when they're just used recreationally. Working with some of the indigenous wisdom keepers that we've had the blessing to work with over the last years of walking this path. And that path has revealed to us something that feels innovative, this notion that the real healing benefit of plant medicine, yes, there is benefit in the ingestion of these plants where there's actually this chemical reaction in the brain that can lift you into these altered states.
Speaker: That's very powerful. That's very good. and I have done a ton of it. And yet the the real potency of the healing of the plants, and not just of the plants, but of all spirit teachers, angels, guides, guardians, whatever you want to call it, these frequencies are available to us without consuming anything.
Speaker: And what we've spent the last three, four years of our lives cultivating is this practice of holding ceremony through these sacred songs, these ikaros that have come to us through the wisdom keepers of the lineages that we work with. And since beginning this work, a channel has opened and I've brought forth about 80 of these healing songs over the last few years. And so The retreat has many facets. It's modeled after the three-day retreats that you and I go and sit with when we're working with plant medicine. But over the course of three days, there will be yoga, there will be multiple song ceremonies, there will be a workshop of authentic movement being facilitated by a friend of ours, Janine. And I guess I'll sum it up by saying this, it might all sound a little mysterious and clandestine. But over the course of my life, working with these energies, with these frequencies that flow through plant spirit teachers, that flow through ascended masters, everything from Buddha to Gandhi and Christ, these higher frequency energies in the cosmos, we can tap into them. We can work with them. We can open our hearts.
Speaker: And this is work that over the last many years has really helped me become someone that has awakened my intuition, really opened my heart, gotten more out of my head, gotten more into my body. And we see Rob and i met this way. And but you're either attracted or drawn to this work or you aren't.
Speaker: And so I guess what I'm really doing here is putting out a call to potential soul family. This is not about filling retreat seats. We're good. We're going to have a full house. We always do. There's a certain frequency of people that kind of vibe together and jam together and we're meant to find each other in life. We're the people that often feel like strangers walking around out in the world. There's something about us that's a little bit different. We're the people that are open-minded to having a different, deeper conversation around sexual energy and how we're living our lives and how we can reconnect to spirits. So If any of that appeals to you, we have a process, we have a container, as it's called, that we've seen over and over really help awaken this in people. And people that have been struggling with specific things like drug addiction or depression, having really remarkable turnarounds, even more common than that are just people that...
Speaker: know there is something better. They feel there's something more. They're not satisfied in their job, but they don't quite know what their purpose is They're longing to connect with something more real and more meaningful in life, but don't quite know where to go. They loved going to church as a kid, but the religions are just traumatizing and didn't cut it, but they crave that community. They crave that communion. We've got something cool going on here that we would love to share with you.
Speaker: Cool. I love it. You're getting me excited about it too, in the description. And I was going to say, it's this kind of thing where if you feel called to this, listen to that, trust it. If you have no clue what Clark's talking about and this, you're like, what? it sounds terrible, don't come. Yeah. But if there's something in you that's intrigued and you want to learn more, so check it out and consider it. Listen to that call. I will put a link in the show notes. If you're interested, start there. And there's a little form you can fill out and tell us when and where this retreat is and anything, any other details you want to share. We know it's going to be in Southern California. We had initial initially said Escondido, but our initial venue fell through. And it's actually a good thing because now we can really customize the venue based on who's showing up. It might end up in the Los Angeles area. It might be a little closer to San Diego.
Speaker: If you feel called to be a part of this, the two hour drive distance between LA and San Diego hopefully won't be Hopefully you'll be okay coming wherever those places are, but we're kind of giving ourselves this next week or two to really hone in on the venue. The dates are definitely August, Thursday, August 27th through Sunday, August 30th.
Speaker: And yeah, all the details are on that website. So get in touch. I'd love to have a personal chat with anyone that feels interested. And I think in closing, I'll just say, yes, there's ceremony, there's ritual, there's sacred songs, there's yoga, there's authentic movement, there's healthy food, all these kind of retreaty things.
Speaker: But what there really is, is community. Because over three and a half, four years, we've been cultivating this community where these like-minded souls come together.
Speaker: And we support each other, we reflect to each other. We become friends. We end up producing podcasts together. So if you've ever just felt not quite connected or that you're looking for more friendship in your life, come hang out. Take it light. Take it easy. Come just be amongst a group of really loving, open-hearted people that are looking to connect in that way.
Speaker: Cool. Thank you, Clark. And also just to mention, this is not just for queer men. There will be queer men there, but this is for anyone. And i will be there. Clark will be there. So check it out if you're interested. annoying Anywhere Rob shows up, there tend to be plenty of queer men. So you certainly won't be alone.
Speaker: The beard is attracting them lately. Great. Thank you, Clark. And stay tuned for more with us next season. It's going to be big.
Speaker: All
Speaker: right. That was your little tease of next season coming soon. Stay tuned. Lastly, before we wrap up today, if you resonate with what's in this podcast, I offer group and individual coaching. The group coaching has been really wonderful and transformative. I can't believe...
Speaker: how magical these groups are. I run a group every two months and the groups last six weeks. We meet on Zoom for 90 minutes once a week and then we chat with each other virtually throughout and beyond the group.
Speaker: You meet five, six, seven other queer men who are not and always in the exact same situation but are like-minded and often going through similar things.
Speaker: And we learn from each other. It's not a masterclass. I'm not teaching. Sometimes we do an exercise or two, but for the most part, we're just sharing, doing some coaching in front of each other and learning from each other.
Speaker: And I get so much out of it. I learn a lot. They're really magical. So the next groups will be starting in September. I just finished some groups and I'm going to take the rest of the month off.
Speaker: The best way to hear about them is to get on my newsletter, robertbrookscohen.com slash newsletter. The link will be in the show notes. I will announce when the next groups happen. I also just started doing a group for women in relationships with queer men. We just wrapped that group. It was also wonderful.
Speaker: I will try to run that again in September. We'll see if we have enough people. So if that's something that interests you, let me know because it's only going to happen if we get four or five women who are interested. I'm also available for individual coaching. That's where we go really deep into whatever specific thing you are navigating, whether it's identity development, coming out, opening up a relationship, navigating other types of relationships with family or family. partners or integrating sexuality into your life. How do you do that? And also something I'm starting to find with clients is like how to pay it forward. Or as I like to say, buy it forward. I have some stuff planned along those lines to expand our reach because, know,
Speaker: Once you've worked on yourself and moved toward healing for yourself, helping others is one of the most healing things, at least for me. Holding space for others and being of service is part of how we heal ourselves. So that's the next level I'm going to. Stay tuned for that.
Speaker: I'll put a link in the show notes if you're interested in individual coaching. I offer a 75-minute intro session, which is a bit longer than most sessions, so we have time to get to know each other. And then after that, it's 50-minute sessions. They're all the same price. My prices have fluctuated over time, and I kind of had this epiphany recently where I hire coaches for myself. I truly believe in it.
Speaker: It's helped me move forward in many ways. I've hired multiple different types of coaches over the past couple of years. And what I kind of realized is like when I'm paying 250 or more, i kind of feel weird about it. It feels like a lot.
Speaker: And when I pay under 200, it feels like I'm getting a bargain. And when I'm paying a right around 200, it feels aligned. It feels like I'm getting the right value. I'm getting a lot for what I'm paying. It's a little at my edge of what I'm comfortable paying, but it's worth it. And the value is really there. So I've just kind of decided I want to charge what feels aligned for me to pay other coaches.
Speaker: And so my sessions from now on, at least until I change my mind, are going to be 200 per session. The first session is an extended one. After that, I work in packages of four sessions so we can get some momentum. And I also offer free 15-minute discovery calls. If you're not sure, if you want to ask me any questions, you can sign up for that.
Speaker: The info is in the show notes and also on my website, robertbrookscohen.com. Lastly, i will just say the same thing I've been saying a bunch of times, which is stay tuned for more coaching offerings from me coming up in the fall. I've been working a lot this summer at developing some new stuff, some new containers, an email course, a workbook, and some communities. What I really want to build are communities where we're learning from each other. And in addition to the group coaching, I want to be able to have places we can do that online online.
Speaker: that are a little bit more accessible in terms of price and we can all learn together. So I don't want to say too much about it. I've been working on it and I'm going to finalize some things in August. So stay tuned in the fall for more and get on my newsletter if you want to hear about those things as soon as they happen.
Speaker: All right. Thank you for staying with me on this journey of 2 Bye Guys since 2019. It's been like over seven years, over 100 episodes, 10 seasons.
Speaker: And I feel like we're just getting started. Some new era is about to happen and we're moving into some new stuff. So thanks for being here along the ride.
Speaker: Blessings on your journey wherever you are in it.
Speaker: Two Bye Guys by One Bye Guy is produced and edited by me, Robert Brooks Cohen, and it was created by me and Alex Boyd. Our logo art is by Caitlin Weinman. Our music is by Ross Minster.
Speaker: To learn more about my individual and group coaching offerings, visit robertbrookscohen.com. And to help support this podcast, visit patreon.com slash robertbrookscohen. You'll get full video episodes, early access, and bonus content.
Speaker: Thank you for listening to Two Bye Guys by One Bye Guy.
