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#22: Eight stories and a big thank you.
116 Plays6 years ago
Podcast series host Jill James shares eight of her favorite moments from the show. You’ll hear about a hydrogen explosion, what it’s like to grow up with a safety parent, and the virtues of unlikely mentorships. These stories from safety professionals across the country will make you laugh, make you wince, and leave you with the sense that you’re not alone.
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Transcript
Introduction to Special Episode
00:00:10
Speaker
Hi, my name is Jill James, Vivid's Chief Safety Officer, and welcome to a very special episode of the Accidental Safety Pro. Today we're going to be looking back at a few of the guests that we've had and reflecting on some of the stories that we've heard and advice that was shared.
Systemic Responsibility in Safety
00:00:26
Speaker
First up, in episode 13 with Dave DeSario, we were addressing the cliche in the aftermath of an accident where someone seems to always be asking, what did the employee do wrong?
00:00:41
Speaker
When you hear about a serious injury or fatality, maybe the first thought that I had was, what did this person do? What did this worker do to make that happen? And I think Day's case is such an important one because it is so clear that it's not his fault.
00:00:57
Speaker
And it's so clear that responsibility falls on so many different people and so many different companies where there were just, there were many opportunities along the way for safety professionals, for supervisors, for coworkers, for managers, for executives, for big companies to somewhere along the line do the right thing, make safety a priority.
00:01:19
Speaker
uh, make safety a priority over production and over profit. Um, but it was missed. So, um, you know, coming out as an outsider, um, Dave's case meant a lot to me and also as someone that worked as a young person in a warehouse, not too different as
Workplace Fatality Statistics
00:01:35
Speaker
they did. So it wasn't so different for me, but I think as an outsider, what was truly shocking was hearing the number of fatalities that are on the job, which, uh, you know,
00:01:45
Speaker
If you're a former OSHA inspector, these numbers are second nature for you, or if you're in safety and health, they are. And maybe it's something you take for granted or you see the long view. So if you hear 4,500 or 4,600 Americans died on the job in the last year, maybe that doesn't sound so big when you think of the history of OSHA and that I know was it two or three times that in the, in the 70s? Yes, exactly. So, you know, maybe to someone in the industry, that sounds like more of a success story or sounds like a lower number.
00:02:15
Speaker
But I think as an outsider, when I thought of workplace fatalities, I thought of Bangladesh or, you know, somewhere not here. Right. So that was a shocking piece to you in, in, in, in finding out that, Oh my gosh, a lot of people die on the job.
Challenges in Safety Profession
00:02:31
Speaker
Next up is a clip from our American society of safety professionals round table with Anupama, Donald and Aaron. Anupama and Donald both share stories of things they never thought they'd have to address.
00:02:43
Speaker
in their work as safety professionals. Things that you've done that you're like, that was a once and done thing, or gosh, I can't even believe I had to, I did that, I didn't know the job was gonna be this, those kind of things. One that caught me off guard was evaluating the compliance of protein muffins from a byproduct of a process, yep. Wonderful, okay, next.
00:03:11
Speaker
Um, I'll say, I feel like I'm the, uh, I'm the field HR representative. I get all kinds of complaints about all types of things that aren't necessarily health and safety related, but in order to, uh, keep those relationships and to make them feel comfortable coming to me, I just sit there and listen to it all and bring it to the appropriate group that I feel.
00:03:34
Speaker
A lot of things that I do is that I didn't know that I was be expected to do at times was equipment inspections specifically for like crafts that like for like lifting and ladders and other things like that. I understand that there are programs and they need to be inspected and all those other good things. But I didn't know I was going to do it.
00:04:00
Speaker
So another one that just happened to me a couple weeks ago is I was in the middle of lunch. I was working and eating in my office and a gentleman walked in and he said, I hope you don't have a squeezy stomach. I'm covered in human feces.
Respiratory Issues in Industry
00:04:15
Speaker
Another story that resonated with me was when Mark explained respiratory issues that he has seen over the years as an industrial hygienist, even one called crab asthma.
00:04:27
Speaker
Was that kind of your first job that you had where you weren't having this vast exposure to all these different types of employment settings, or am I guessing wrong there? It was really different. Working in an occupational medicine clinic at the University of Washington, we were a research center where we trained occupational medicine docs and we provide patient services to the
00:04:55
Speaker
in the Northwest on occupational disease and some on back injuries and seeking help, but mostly the focus was disease. And so what was different was I suddenly wasn't going out to work sites very often, but what was happening is sick workers were coming to our clinic.
00:05:17
Speaker
And so we saw lots of workers with, with asbestosis and potential lung cancer. And some of these are delioma cases. We saw lead poisoning, solvent exposures were very common. And so lots of indoor air cases. This was in the early nineties and a lot of indoor air issues. We saw lots of asthma and environmental sensitivity cases from around the Northwest from
00:05:42
Speaker
From things like crab asthma, which is in the crab processing from Alaska was a common disorder. Yeah. And, and to, you know, to, you know, to radiator, you know, workers in radiator shops getting lead poisoning and then.
00:05:56
Speaker
you know, the historic asbestos diseases that were showing up just because of the long history of asbestos use in the Pacific Northwest.
Safety Management at Pixar
00:06:06
Speaker
We appreciated Carolina sharing her stories as a safety pro at Pixar Animation Studios simply to show no matter where you work, safety is for everyone.
00:06:17
Speaker
How has that transition been looking for you in terms of like how are you able to work through those fires every day and kind of what resources are you reaching out to?
00:06:27
Speaker
Well, because we are a Disney company as well, I have my Disney partners that deal with safety and environmental health. And I've actually reached out and introduced myself to them in the beginning and asked if they could help guide me and answer questions for me if I ever had any. And that's how it all started.
00:06:52
Speaker
It's like there isn't always fires that we have to put out because we have our facilities department. They're really good about, you know, safety and believing in that our studio is a huge supporter of it. So just keeping up with the maintenance of, you know, making sure everyone's up to certifications that they may need, you know, from forklift operator to CPR and first aid to, you know,
00:07:21
Speaker
has calm and all of that. So it's just making sure that I'm continuing on the regulations, making sure we're still OSHA compliant. And again, these things just surface up. I mean, I was on board maybe I want to say about four months in and I get a call from the environmental health inspector saying, hey, I need to schedule a visit.
00:07:49
Speaker
And I'm all like, huh? Who's that? Who? Environmental what? And so, you know, I was very open and honest. And I think that's what's helped me out is I'm not afraid to say, I don't know the answer to that. Let me come back. Or, you know, I'm really, I have no clue what you're talking about, but I can find out. And I've always done that throughout my life in my careers. So of course, we had to update our,
00:08:19
Speaker
hazard material business plan and I'm all like what? What is that? I have no idea.
Experiences of Women in Safety
00:08:28
Speaker
The next clip is from episode 15 with Linda Martin. Linda shared her insight on being female in our profession and also avoiding the safety cop label.
00:08:39
Speaker
Yeah, let's talk a little bit about what that was like early in a career. You and I both started in safety in our 20s and we're women and it sounds like your path often led you to being in more
00:08:57
Speaker
Not only are women continuing to be a minority in our field, but the fields where you were working were also pretty male dominated in construction trades and a lot of that environmental piece. What did that look like for you in terms of how did you find your voice and build into that? I've always had a voice, Jill.
00:09:22
Speaker
But I will say... I got that joke. Yeah, I've always had a voice. Sorry, a little slow on me there. So one of the things that I've kind of prided myself on is that, you know, I don't like kind of plying my craft, if that's the right way to say it.
00:09:45
Speaker
And maybe this is the wrong way to say it too, by pulling the woman card, by either having men do what I want in the field because it's a female asking or change their behavior because I'm one of the guys. I think I prided myself more on building a base rapport and that entails
00:10:12
Speaker
Well, first of all, some of the older men that are in construction, and this kind of generates itself as new people come in, they see safety as, here comes the safety cop. She's going to tell me to put my hard hat on, and I'm going to chuckle about it. And then when she leaves, I'm going to do whatever I want. Do whatever I want. Just placate her. But to actually kind of come in and say, listen,
00:10:41
Speaker
you know, I'm not here to do that. I'm here to, to try to help you do a task better. And, and number one, I want to hear why you're doing it the way you are, because sometimes that's important. Yeah. So, you know, that, that gives them a sense of empowerment that, that they're part of the, part of the process, but also not to be that person that comes in and is, you know, barking orders or be the know-it-all, um, safety, the safety cop, right. Um,
00:11:08
Speaker
You know, and, and the other thing is, is that, um, when people see you as the same and, and by the same, I mean, you know, we all have the same concerns, right? I want to do my job and, and I want to do my job because I make money and I can support my family. And you know, I, I love the weekends. Um, I love to get that, get to the weekends. I love it when it's five o'clock and I get to go home and, and hold my daughters on my lap. And so when you build that,
00:11:36
Speaker
sense of, hey, we're all the same. And I care that you have that same ability, as I do, to go home at night. I think it goes a long way. And I never, at least in my professional practice, I never have had a problem with working with a bunch of guys. And that's not to say that that it's not difficult, it has been very difficult over the years. You know, if I was to give some advice to women, I would say, you know,
00:12:06
Speaker
Come in and show your sameness. You have the same, same values and same concerns. Listen a lot, right? These guys have been in the field for, you know, some of them 30 plus years. And they do things because they've learned to adapt their tasks over a set amount of time. And just because they're doing something, not the way that you would do it, it doesn't mean that it's wrong. It doesn't mean that it's not safe. It might not be as safe as it could be.
00:12:35
Speaker
But that's the listening part allows you to get to the point where you can have a conversation about making something safer or maybe having a compromise.
Impact of Mentorship on Career
00:12:47
Speaker
If you're a fan of the show, you know how important mentors can be. And in episode 17, Katie tells us her story about the importance of mentorship to her.
00:12:59
Speaker
And while I, you know, I have what I call first year safety pro syndrome, where, you know, I thought I knew everything and I was super smart. Well, yeah, when you have somebody that you can default and ask questions of every day who can tell you when you're doing something wrong, you know, yeah, you're
00:13:15
Speaker
job is a lot easier than having to make those decisions and tell people- Wonder if it's right. Yeah, exactly. That was really, really difficult and I knew it wasn't for me. Then I had another brief stop after that and that really wasn't for me either. Where I'm at now, I feel so much better. I am the only one that does what I do, but I'm okay with that at this point. One of the biggest things that I've learned
00:13:40
Speaker
is that mentors come in all sorts of forms. They don't have to be a safety professional to teach you how to be a good employee. Yeah, tell us more about that. I agree with you 100%. But tell us more about that, especially if someone's just getting started and they're looking for those mentors. When you say it's not necessarily somebody in safety, talk about an experience or what you learned. That's valuable.
00:14:09
Speaker
A few years ago in the company I worked for, I had started out working for one safety manager who is someone I respect very much. He is super funny. We get along really well. We still talk every now and then. But he left the company to seek a different opportunity.
00:14:25
Speaker
And, you know, he gave me really wonderful advice. He was kind of like, you know, I'm grouchy and I can grumble that all, you know, safety is dumb, but that's why I do it because, you know, I want to make sure I do my best so that people don't have to grumble about it and whatnot. And he told me, you know, you're too young to have that attitude, make sure you, you know, stay positive and whatnot. So I was like, Oh, yeah, great. And after he left, I started working for somebody else. And I kind of looked to that person to be my mentor. And that really
00:14:51
Speaker
didn't mesh. I felt like we didn't have the same values and we didn't practice the same way. And that person didn't really try to get to know me, which was really frustrating. Um, cause I felt like, you know, it didn't understand me. And you know, I feel like I sound like, you know, that every parent's like 16 year old, like, Oh, you don't understand me. And you know, you don't like the things I like, but it was, it was difficult because I, you know, I wanted to be my best for this person. And I just, I felt like, you know, we weren't really clicking. So I ended up, um,
00:15:21
Speaker
Having a mentor in the manufacturing engineering manager at one of my locations and he Turned out to be a fantastic mentor for me He would take me aside after meetings and be like hey I know that you're trying to pitch this right now and I wanted to you know give you some feedback I think that you know this is
00:15:39
Speaker
maybe you know this way of pitching this idea i don't think that's gonna work because of xyz but i really i think it's a great idea and i think if we tweak that a little bit we can really get some success and be like oh yeah that's great so you know he helped me a lot to get like you know a really expensive order of security cameras you know approved and
00:15:56
Speaker
and all kinds of really great things like that. He's still someone that I look to a lot. On my last day with that org, I sat in his office and I was like, my exit interview is coming up and I'm really glad that you were here for me and you looked out for me quite a bit. We're still friends as well. I talk with him quite a bit still, but that was really when that stood out to me that I was able to learn something
00:16:24
Speaker
about my career from someone who didn't talk to me about safety.
Influence of Safety-Conscious Upbringing
00:16:28
Speaker
This next clip is one that I think will resonate with a lot of us who parent children and who are also safety professionals listen as Siobhan and I discuss both having a safety mom and being one. I remember it being
00:16:45
Speaker
normal. Nothing about it seemed weird or abnormal or something that isn't supposed to be happening in a family. I mean the way that she presented the information, the way she covered it with us, to me it all made sense which maybe it's because this was kind of embedded in me anyway.
00:17:07
Speaker
but I don't remember it being you know something out of the ordinary it just seemed like it was a natural part of growing up now I know that when I would talk to other friends about it as I would get older and I'd notice things and start pointing things out they would look at me like I was weird
00:17:27
Speaker
But then I would just look at them like, well, what do you mean? It's weird. Why wouldn't you want to know what kind of safety you need to do to protect yourself? Why wouldn't you want to know that you shouldn't plug in a lot of things into your power strip, or that chemicals are kept in this area for a certain reason, or that there should be a meeting place if there's a fight? Why wouldn't you want to know these things?
00:17:50
Speaker
never I don't know when when friends would react that way I just I guess I would have the equal but opposite reaction back to them. What was it like when you had your first like sleepovers or you know you're going to other people's houses?
00:18:06
Speaker
I know what I did as a mom, so I'm curious to know what Super Mom did. So, I mean, Super Mom really tried her best not to impose that on my friends. And so she would try as hard as she could, but she would talk about certain things. She would say, you know,
00:18:25
Speaker
if there ends up being a tornado we're gonna hide underneath you know the stair at that time she said we're gonna hide underneath the stairwell in the basement and then I remember getting older and her saying no that's not a good idea what we need to do is we need to figure out what direction the tornado is coming in so we can sit in the opposite corner I mean she would talk about things like that and she would talk about where we're gonna meet if there was a fire but outside of that she really wouldn't try
00:18:51
Speaker
To push too much on them because I think she knew that not a lot of families Did what she did and she didn't want to be that weird mom that now kids don't want to spend the night at your house She's freaking them out And then I would try really hard not to bring those things up when I would go to friends houses because I guess I kind of learned from my mom that I
00:19:15
Speaker
Not everyone has that safety sense and you don't want to be that kid that no one wants to invite over So I would try hard not to do it, but sometimes especially if something she talked about seemed really cool When my son was little he would he's I remember the first time he asked me and I don't remember what the context was He just said mom, what's our safety plan for that? And I'm like, oh
00:19:43
Speaker
Okay, what a day. But I also remember like calling his friends parents houses when he would go and spend time asking about firearms. Oh yeah. And you know were they locked up and those kind of questions and I thought well you know I have a right to ask that as a parent and and they were you know legitimate I think questions to ask and
00:20:04
Speaker
His little friends now, they're not little anymore, they're all teenagers and when we go about and do things with them, they all are like, alright Jill, when is it coming? What's the safety plan? This past Halloween, kids always do, we always organize for them a scavenger hunt with an app.
00:20:26
Speaker
called, oh, it's a really cool app. I'll think of it and share it with people because you can do your own scavenger hunt through an app and you can go around to different places in a community and take photos of what you're supposed to be finding or set a point on a map like I got to this place or I saw this or whatever. Goose chase, that's the name of the app. And so this year, the kids are like, OK, we're going to do the scavenger hunt again, right? I'm like, yep, but you all have driver's licenses.
00:20:55
Speaker
so do you still want the teams of parents driving you around to these places or are you gonna do it on your own and they're like we're gonna drive and so we're like okay new safety plan you know we've got drivers like the person who's driving the car is not engaged in the game you are simply the driver do you still want to play yes you know
00:21:19
Speaker
three cars of teenage boys driving around a community playing their goose chase app. Oh my goodness. I know. Anyway, so safety mom at play there.
Importance of Repeated Safety Messaging
00:21:31
Speaker
There were definitely a lot of things I loved about episode three with Joe, but one of the most impactful moments was definitely when he told this story. I would have meetings with my emergency response team every month, right? And I would always say to people the exact same statement over and over again.
00:21:48
Speaker
If we ever get into a situation where there's, you know, a fire, there's a spill, there's some sort of, you know, incident and you can't find the person that's missing.
00:21:56
Speaker
and you can't safely get into that area, then you need to protect yourself and get back out. You know what I mean? Because there's no value in having two groups of people that are lost. And so, you know, it would almost seem like people would look at me like, yeah, right. Nothing's ever going to happen. And, you know, that's just complete silly. We're invincible. Yeah, we're invincible. It's never going to happen until, you know, I can remember one specific morning, you know, we had an incident where, you know, chemicals were pumped into the wrong tank and there was, you know, a hydrogen explosion. You know what I mean?
00:22:25
Speaker
You know, those chemicals created, you know, a cloud, you know what I mean? As soon as the tank exploded, right. And the cloud, you know, pretty much blocked the entire view of a camera within seconds. So, you know, it was very difficult to know what was going on. I wasn't at the plant. I was actually at home. Right. And I remember, you know, I was responding to the plant because I heard them dispatch the local fire company and stuff. And I.
00:22:47
Speaker
On my way in, I could hear, you know, my team operating, you know what I mean? But they were doing all the things I told them to do. You know what I mean? So they were searching for the person and they pulled back out. You know what I mean? Well, here we had lost two people in that incident that we couldn't account for. Right. But they had ended up going out the back door. You know what I mean? You know.
00:23:05
Speaker
If I had sent my team in to try to find them, you know what I mean? We would add more problems. And so then once those people were accounted for, everybody was still in that really hyped up mode that we got to go in and we got to solve this problem now. You know what I mean? But the thing is your responsibility is to your people. You know what I mean? And to make sure they're safe. And the reality was there was nobody in there that was, you know, at risk. You know what I mean? We had a building that was damaged. We had problems.
00:23:29
Speaker
You know, we need to just slow down and make sure that when I sent people in, it was safe, you know, so we had to shut all the utilities off. We had to shut, you know, all the, uh, you know, things that were coming through the pipes off, but then we went in and it was safe. You know what I mean? And I.
00:23:42
Speaker
To me, that was the one of the more meaningful things that I realized, wow, you have to say things over and over and over again until it gets into somebody's head because saying it once doesn't mean anything. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So repeat, like you said, the message, remembering to carry our message upstream, but also downstream as well and being repetitive about it. Um, you know, the airlines do that really well, right?
00:24:03
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. We're getting that message every time. Put on your own oxygen mask first before you help someone else. Right. And all those messages, which essentially is part of what the message was for you that day and how proud you must have been of your team. I definitely was. And like I said, to me, that was one of the larger successes, you know, with emergency response. I hope you enjoyed these episode moments as much as I have.
00:24:26
Speaker
And special thanks to our guests for being so willing to share their depth, their stories, so that we all might learn and grow. Special thank you to Dave, Anupama, Donald, Aaron, Mark, Carolina, Linda, Katie, Siobhan, and Joe.
00:24:43
Speaker
And thank you all so much for joining in and listening today, and thank you all for the work that you do to make sure that your workers go home safe at the end of every day. And special thanks to Will Moss, our podcast producer. You can listen to all of the episodes at VividLearningSystems.com or subscribe in the podcast player of your choosing. If you have a suggestion for a guest, including maybe if it's yourself, please contact me at social at VividLearningSystems.com. Until next time, thanks for listening.