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Prioritizing Brilliance: Navigating a World of Incredible Ideas with Author Chris Kreuter
83 Plays1 year ago
Join us on Coldplay Culture for an enlightening conversation with Chris Kreuter, a visionary in the fields of technology and innovation. In this episode, we tackle the challenge of having an abundance of incredible ideas and the crucial task of prioritizing them. Chris imparts his expertise on identifying which ideas have the potential to create the most significant impact with the least amount of effort. We delve into the strategies for working intelligently in a world overflowing with innovation. Our discussion also covers the cultural influences of technology, AI, programming, and their intersections with mental health and video games. This episode is not just a discussion; it's a guide for anyone looking to make sense of the myriad ideas in our dynamic world and to effect change smartly and effectively.
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Transcript
Introduction to Codeplay Culture Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to the Codeplay Culture podcast, where we discuss tech, gaming, health, and the world around us.
00:00:10
Speaker
Hey,
Meet Chris Croyder: Engineer, Writer, Host
00:00:11
Speaker
everyone. Welcome back to Codeplay Culture Podcast. Rui and Logan, today we are joined by Chris Croyder. And Chris is a jack of many trades who grew up on a steady diet of 80s and 90s science fiction video games and drawn to the internet culture. He grew up living his childhood dreams by becoming an engineer and a sci-fi writer.
00:00:35
Speaker
As a writer, he crafts sci-fi novels for kids 8 to 13. And as an engineer, he spent two decades as a professional in the public transit industry focusing on bus and rail vehicles. He also
Chris's Passion for Content Creation
00:00:51
Speaker
is a host of Crystal Deal With It, which is a podcast that I personally fell in love with. And I'm working my way from the bottom up because you don't want to ruin an end to a good
00:01:03
Speaker
podcasts don't have an end, but also he is a hockey fan player, reads a ton of books and adores podcasts and raises two young girls. Welcome, Chris.
00:01:16
Speaker
Thanks for having me guys. I'm excited. So, so today, um, basically Chris, I worked my way through and then I got to like episode five. And then I said, I would, I just want to almost like talk to him directly and then basically go back to the, your pod.
Prioritizing Ideas by ROI: Time & Value
00:01:34
Speaker
It's like, it was like an opportunity to be like, Hey,
00:01:37
Speaker
I just wanna put it out there that all of the stuff that you've added here is incredibly beneficial for every single person listening. I had that same level of vibes of like the four hour work week of like the things that we can immediately implement, right? Today we're just talking about the whole idea of ideas. I suffer, I think what Ruby suffers from and what you suffer from, which is like a mild case of
00:02:05
Speaker
You have a lot of ideas and they're good ones, right? And they're pretty much all worth doing. So we're talking about like ROI and prioritization and different categories. Like is there some tools that you use to like, like if you have an idea, do you write it down right away? And then do you use certain like categories to say, oh, that's a personal one with my family. And that has a priority. Like what are some methods and some tools?
00:02:36
Speaker
Yeah, no, so for me, it's very much having an idea capture system, I did a whole episode on just the systems that you can use to have that just whatever works for you, right? Some people want a pen and paper, some people I use notion, particularly, I used to use Trello for many years. For me, notion was great because more free form because my ideas fall in so many different categories. It could be a podcast,
Time as a Finite Resource: Movie Analogy
00:02:57
Speaker
it could be a novel idea I'm writing on
00:02:58
Speaker
just an idea for a name of a character because I heard something silly walking down the street. So ideas can come in so many different, not just formats, but flavors. Like it can be a small thing, a big thing. So just having one big bucket that I can evaluate. And for me, part of the system is just time, right? It's saying, okay, great example, like the new novel I just started writing.
00:03:22
Speaker
It took me a few months to get to that, because I had lots of great ideas for what to write a book about, but none of them really stuck. Like, do I really want to spend two years of my life writing this? No. When the idea sticks in your mind, you can't stop thinking about it. That's when you know you have this kind of momentum, like, yeah, this is an idea that's going to stick. And then you start taking these other ideas, maybe from totally separate fields or thoughts and ideas, and you start building up that case for a project.
00:03:46
Speaker
So the system is very much about what goes on inside your head as much as what tools you use, but time is a big factor in that for me, right? It's a real broad brush, but. Yeah, like the ROI on time, time versus money, like time is the only finite resource, meaning that like we could have infinite fictitious currency or whatever, but like you, unless you can add more, like if you've seen that Justin Timberlake movie in time, where it's the currency,
00:04:15
Speaker
That's worth seeing where you would basically see Jeff Bezos' arm and it would be a bunch of numbers on it. He pays for things by touching and then once you're out of time, you die instantly. It's a whole time and money thing. That's a good way of looking at it for ROI because people say ROI
00:04:38
Speaker
conceptually as investment as in financial, even though investment could be taken as time investment. But people,
ROI in Time and Values
00:04:47
Speaker
I think just off the top of their head, think of ROI as financial. But if you think about it as a time, as time being the ultimate currency, then if I'm going to put this in my life for two years, a book, I have all the ideas,
00:05:05
Speaker
What is the, does it give me time back or is time my, the resource I want? So it's almost like identifying what is the proper ROI, um, measure, like whether it's time money or whatever it is, and then prioritizing that. Um, what's with the two buckets, right? You, are you talking about the, are you talking about the eye? Right? You're focusing on the returns. You're focusing on the investment you're putting into it.
00:05:33
Speaker
Yes, because yes, those are like two individual buckets that could be either or. Like investment as a currency in, currency out, time in, currency out. It's like a standard formula for. When it comes to time and investment, there's nothing worth
00:06:00
Speaker
your time. That to me is like the most viable resource. So everything should be put aside for, you know, um, in regards to our time, right? We have to kind of cherish that. That should be the top layer of the, um, of whatever chain that is. Yeah. Like for example, ask yourself, Hey, um, this two days of
00:06:23
Speaker
let's say we're, we're coding something really. And we're like, we lock our doors and we're not, we tell our kiddos that like, we will not see you for two days. Yeah. I'll be in the basement, but it'll be like, whatever, like whatever it is, we ask ourselves like, Hey, is it worth the time investment away from ultimately the kids, right?
Balancing Work and Family Time
00:06:41
Speaker
Cause that's where I bring it down to it. It never is. I even feel guilty sometimes to like going to, you know, skate park. I'm like, if, if I bring cold, but if I don't bring, you know, my daughter, I'm like, I'm,
00:06:52
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I should really always be with them. But then bringing it back rationally, I'm on one of those tangents. It's like working from home, you see them way more than if you went in the office. So all things being considered, I see them a lot more than how I saw my dad or whatever. So one of the questions for ideas for return on investment is what is your most valuable asset or what you're trying to maximize? If you're financially set and you don't need the money, maybe you don't
00:07:21
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really can sit, you're just like, Hey, um, you know, wake up every day. If you can do whatever you want, what would that look like? Maybe starting there. And then that kind of piggybacks into like your most important return. Does that make sense? Yeah.
00:07:39
Speaker
I mean, I think it depends a lot on how you're defining the return to, right? If you try to use it in terms of, there are certain tasks and ideas that, hey, listen, if I code this and it'll save me 15 minutes a day, there's a definitive return on investment.
00:07:53
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All right, because it gave me 50 hours of code that, like, is it worth it? Or is it a five minute code fix all of a sudden, boom, 15 minutes a day back in my day. There's a very clear delineation, but for me, for certain, especially creative projects, even work-related ones, I mean, I work to live, right? I work to provide for my family, but with the projects, I don't, if you go into it just to make a lot of money,
Passion Projects vs. 'Prison' Work
00:08:16
Speaker
it's usually not gonna worry out. There are very few authors that are full-time writers, just made it, right?
00:08:21
Speaker
Um, I used to be a boring game publisher. The same thing. The joke was the best way to start, make a small fortune in board games to start with a large fortune. Like that was just like running. It wasn't even a joke, really. It was reality. But if you're crazy, it has a monopoly or whatever. So there's exceptions to every rule. There's, there's, there's returns that you're not going to expect. Right. Right.
00:08:44
Speaker
Yeah, I published board games, but like I learned graphic design through that process. Like you just didn't, you don't realize that the years later, but the reason you might go into a project, it might be to leave something in the best parts of yourself behind for the future. Of course, of course. Yeah, that's true. So like passion first, right? Like you have to be passionate about the time investment or it's just kind of prison. Yeah. Yeah. And you, I can go into a project, like I'm going to put my best thought out there, like the podcast, like, you know,
00:09:13
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I want to put this thought out there to help people, but like I realized that you're going into it. You're actually building up on something and that return can take different forms over a longer time, time scale. And you're, you have to kind of get comfortable with the fact that you're not going to see all the possible returns. Yes, for sure. So if you go into it saying, okay, well, what's, what's your minimum viable threshold for a successful ROI? Like, you know, it has to be at least something in it tangible in the near future to keep the momentum going on the project. Right. If I was doing it just based on views, I would have stopped at episode three or four.
00:09:43
Speaker
Right. Um, this isn't successful. Right. If I said, no, I'm going to build up to something, I'm going to learn this craft and it's going to take all I know, cause I'm not good, great at marketing. It's my biggest flaw. Right. I'm going to learn this process. I'm going to work on my podcast game. I'm going to find my voice. And also with the content that I'm building, like I can take that and then put it into a book or something down the road. Like there's
'God Points' and Positive Impact
00:10:06
Speaker
addition. I'm realizing there's more avenues I can take it. The more I practicing a good at a skill.
00:10:10
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So not everything has to have this concrete, like I have to make this or it's going to be a failure. Right. Yes. I do the same thing. I blindly hide behind my intentions and I have a whole idea about this thing called GP or God points where it's like kind of like it's just almost like a word for karma. Right. So if you like put what you're doing and what we're doing right now is we're putting this out like
00:10:38
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You know, view counts on ours is very, very, very low. We're not, we love
Writing Books: Legacy and Passion
00:10:42
Speaker
doing it, right? And like, and we're doing it with the sole intent of helping others, right? And that will, this podcast here, like granted there's no, you know, our, we have a clean, like nothing said that, you know, that will generate negative GP.
00:10:58
Speaker
like this will give us one each, okay? And you can imagine it's like a video game in the corner. You did something nice. You helped an old lady across the street. You got one GP, right? But GP is interesting because you can't spend it. It will spend on its own in the weirdest ways. You can't
00:11:15
Speaker
go and just take out 10 and like get a Ferrari or whatever it is, right? It just auto spends and it's infectious and grows over time and establishes this positive culture. I realized that like, okay, well, when I die and the kids are like checking out
00:11:34
Speaker
I want it to be a whole bunch of how to do this. And it's basically just that whole, okay, technology tough, right? So here's an easy way to do this, giving people time back so they can be with their families, so they can be more efficient and all of that stuff. But I often find it's kind of interesting to think if there is like an overlay, just like an AR overlay in the world, be like,
00:12:00
Speaker
That guy just lost 10 GP. What'd he do? I think he just threw something at his mom. It would be kind of a better... Elon should turn that on for this simulation as soon as he... Whatever. But that'd be kind of cool to make more of a video game-like aspect of reality in some way to... Yeah, but then you're also getting it filtered through other people's perceptions too. I get this a lot.
00:12:30
Speaker
writing a book is a lot. I'm like, yeah, I know. And when they hear what I get out of it, it's almost like, well, that's a lot of work to get that. I'm like, well, that's what matters to me, right? Like the example of the AR overlay, right? Like maybe he threw something at his mom because his mom threw it at him, right? Like there could be a context that you don't know. And everyone's going to see it through a different lens.
Writing: Passion vs. Profession
00:12:52
Speaker
And so, you know, it would cause hate for sure. It would cause hate for sure. An AI overlay, because if you, if you show bank accounts, like, or see the ups and downs of like karma, like, right, like that, it would just cause divisions, I think.
00:13:10
Speaker
That's human nature, no matter what. That's human nature. But yeah, going back to the primary motivator. So I self-published a book on Amazon KDP. And my only motivator for publishing this book was to leave for my son. It was a book on how to teach kids how to speak in Latin as cartoon characters. That was my only motivator. It was just for that reason alone. Anything else is just a byproduct of that.
00:13:40
Speaker
So that was my, yeah, a little bit, yeah. Not super fluent, but I do, I can easily get by and have a conversation, yeah. And I want my son to learn the language too, right? And I'm hoping through the book. So he's interested and that book got him interested. So it was a stepping stone. Obviously it's a little kid's book and the words are very basic, but that was my motivator. And Luna, right?
00:14:07
Speaker
Luna learns Latin. That's what I named my Tesla, Luna. I hate saying that word, but because it's all black, it's like the cat from Sailor Moon or whatever, I think. But I love that word, Luna. I often wanted to have some kind of dark Gothic
00:14:26
Speaker
chart-based web app called Luna, which just the crescent moon was like half a pie chart with some kind of like simple UX, but like marketing that's like pretty straightforward. Like I love that word Luna. It just means moon in Latin, right? Okay. Yeah. That's how you say moon in Latin. Yeah.
00:14:43
Speaker
One of my kids has as a part of the name. So now I'll be I guess the that part that sliver crescents are now connected and now it's a full moon because it's like three come together. It's like one of third There's my fraction joke whatever Help bring me back cuz I'm like gone at this point. You got a third of a chuckle. So that's good Yeah, there we go. I got the social But yeah, so
00:15:14
Speaker
Latin. Yeah. Going back to the, yeah, going back to the motivators. Yeah, that's my motivator. I want to leave something to your point, Logan, too. You want to leave something behind for your kids to see, say this is, you know, this is how to's or this is what, you know, my dad left and something for them when you're not on this planet anymore. And maybe for your grandkids too, of course.
00:15:33
Speaker
Yeah. So figure out what your primary like return will be. Like hopefully it's happiness, right?
Reducing Harm with Intentional Actions
00:15:39
Speaker
Why do you do that? Because you want to be happy. And actually the more happy you get, like I like a skateboard, I fall, I break stuff or whatever. I'm like, it's very hard to go to. I got into it because I'm like nervous as heck and I wanted some exposure therapy. And then I just fell in love with
00:15:56
Speaker
I guess, getting over fears, if that makes sense, or an introvert becoming an extrovert. It's the same reason, right, Chris? You love writing. It's your passion. When you put together probably just even a seven-word sentence that is so packed with information, phonically, and it's understood. It's such an art. I can't even imagine
00:16:21
Speaker
how that passion could feel. But when you write, you're in the zone, you love it. It brings ROI back to your life when you're happier through expression of your art. Yeah, but there's times where it sucks. I think also part of this is what are the stakes? When I write, I can write and put my best thought out there and I can take the time to edit it down. There's not
00:16:44
Speaker
Food on a family's table doesn't ride on how well the sentence I write. The better a sentence like, you know, maybe it'll pay more dividends. I want to put my best thought out there. And that's the motivator. But if I had to write for a living, I would write a very different way. Right. I'd be writing very different books. I'd be ghostwriting. I'd be doing. And it would cease to be a passion. Right. Yeah.
00:17:04
Speaker
Or it runs the risk when the stakes are different. So I think part of the ROI on any idea, what are the stakes? Could distributing this idea be damaging to society? Could it be damaging to a reputation? It could be as simple as, I have an idea to write this social media post that three years later stops me from getting a job. There's lots of stakes that have to factor into that math. It's not always an equation, but
00:17:35
Speaker
Yeah. My daughter is actively, and my son too, they're actively practicing kindness, which I am, I don't really push them into them, but they, that's something that they try to work on, which is like humbling as heck. But sometimes they will say things that are very kind to one. And I say, Hey, you know,
00:17:54
Speaker
did you notice that when you said that, it might have been inferred by this person like this, even though you're complimenting that person. The whole idea of the, OK, oh, this is really nice. So you're not going to think of the splash damage effect, right? You want to think of something as do no harm. Don't be like, oh, it's good for that person. Oh, it's harming everyone else around. It's very interesting to think of that.
00:18:22
Speaker
You know, it's, and it's very, or is the like, I meditate. I'm like a secular Buddhist. I don't practice any of that stuff. I'm not like religious. I just meditate. But one of the cool quotes was like,
00:18:33
Speaker
They try to wake up, get to the end of the day by not hurting something. It's impossible. So if you don't get out of your room, someone will be upset that they think that you're upset at them.
Flexibility in Ideas: Commitment Balancing
00:18:44
Speaker
You can't hide from it. You just have to try to harm reduction or have less harmful speech. That's the whole thing of like, is what you're doing good for?
00:18:54
Speaker
everyone? Does it have the least harm? Is it making you most happy? And I think that it's just an equation. Like it's not some, I don't think it's a pie in the sky thing that can't be put mathematically expressed. Like I think maximum, like what we're talking about here for cause it's, I don't know, but I don't think there's, maybe there's a lot of equations that factor in harm reduction of
00:19:21
Speaker
like that kind of stuff. But if you think about it, you just add up the totals and say, this one is great. Everyone gets time back. No one gets harmed. It's ethical. It won't take too long to do it. And I'm going to have a fun time doing it as well. That seems like pretty... And that could be an idea that I would prioritize. It's cyclical in its reference.
00:19:49
Speaker
But yeah, so like, do you ever weigh by category? Because I always have guilt to be like, oh, I'm working too, I should be with the family, or I've been with the family too much. You ever have the guilt between categories where I'm like, oh, I haven't helped out in that? It's very difficult to like, you have to provide, but at the same time, when you provide, you don't provide.
00:20:19
Speaker
You know, you don't provide your presence, but you provide your. I mean, I think it's also understanding the time scale, right? There's times we have to be opportunistic. You can't always predict what, where you're going to, especially if you have kids, right? You can't predict how you're going to be able to spend your time or what's going to happen. You know, you can have someone be sick, something can come up. So, you know, one project can also go off the rails and you're, you're dedicated to that. So you have to maintain flexibility if you're, if you're working on multiple ideas. But I think it's also understanding.
00:20:48
Speaker
how flexible would an idea be, right? If your idea is to become the world's greatest skateboarder, well, you better be setting aside multiple hours per day to be getting better.
Overcoming Creative Barriers
00:20:58
Speaker
The only way to get better is to do the thing, right? Yeah. So you want to try to set expectations, OK, well, getting into a writing habit. But if you say, if I don't write 1,000 words a day, I'm a failure. That's not achievable. There's more to writing than just putting words on paper. I can write 1,000 words in a second. OK, it's 1,000 words. They're garbage.
00:21:18
Speaker
So there it depends on if there's more of an art to it is something where you just have to put in the time the 10,000 hours or whatever to get better at something Yeah, but you know understanding that all right. I can fit this into my other commitments. It can be flexible but You know, it might be something where I there's phases of a project where that that commitment looks different right now It's a lot of like for the last month or so. It's been idea generation for the writing, right? I had to figure out the plot figure out the characters figure out
00:21:47
Speaker
I have to do a deep dive into blockchain. I actually need someone who actually knows Latin for part of the project, right? So you start pulling in resources, your brain starts thinking a little bit differently because you're making connections that you never made before in the context of your project. And so that phase one, and then you get to the actual writing, you're taking advantage of that research, but you can be a little more...
00:22:12
Speaker
There's no fine line of exactly when you have to do that unless there's a stake involved. I need to have a novel to my agent by this date. Your process is so different. Do you guys have similar sorts of systems? I know I'm talking from a very literary standpoint, but from other types of projects, how do you make those scale determinations?
00:22:33
Speaker
Um, I, I, honestly, it's, it's hard to, to quantify, you know, scale. Um, I do get obsessed when I do something and I always see it through until it's done. I don't. Yeah, I get obsessed and my, my scale is basically it's a roller coaster. There's no, um, it's just up, up and down, man. Right. Right.
00:22:58
Speaker
That's a great way to phrase it. You just can't let it go. Yeah. I'm that kind of person. It's my personality, but, um, I always wonder, like, how do you maximize, how do you write for a wider audience to, to like, get that ROI when you're writing, right? Cause
Balancing Creativity and Audience Expectations
00:23:13
Speaker
isn't there like, um, a creative barrier when you're thinking about return on investment when it comes to writing? There can be, I think it's what stops a lot of people from thinking they can't do something. They're like,
00:23:27
Speaker
Again, their definition of success is based on, and I think it's become harder because we're in this era now where everyone's surrounded by experts. You can go to YouTube right now and hear directly from the world's greatest writers. And it can be a limiter if you feel like, all right, well, I'm not going to be able to write the great American novel, and it stops you right dead in your tracks. Right. So you also have to realize where you are with the skill.
00:23:54
Speaker
Right. You know, the book I'm writing, I'm starting to write now is going to be better than the first books that I sell end up self-publishing. Cause I couldn't get an agent. Like now book five is going to be better than book one. It doesn't make book one any worse. Right. And there's nothing stopping from going back and rewriting, but then you're perpetually editing. Like what are you trying to create? No, it's almost like I can see my progression as a writer from the first rainy river bees book in 2016 through to the first one I published anyway. Right.
00:24:22
Speaker
And it took me 10 years to get to that point. Right. So I don't know if it's a really great answer to your question per se, but I think it's.
00:24:35
Speaker
You want to at least think about the commitments that you're making. It takes a lot to write a full book. And if I really wanted to be a writer, but I wanted maybe a quicker iterative process, there's a lot of writers that'll start with short stories, work up to a novella length, which is like 20,000 or 40,000 work, which is now a burgeoning market that really wasn't there 10 years ago, 20 years ago.
00:24:55
Speaker
It might be something where I prefer to write it novel length because I can really, I like having a spread out ply. I like having, I'm an engineer by trade, right? So for me, I can, I can visualize, I need to see the whole thing and I like to really pack a lot into, into that. Um, short stories I've just, I've struggled with because I, you know, even though I can write good sentences, but maybe I'll revisit at some point. It's just, I like, I prefer to do it over more time. I equality over quantity. Mm-hmm.
00:25:24
Speaker
But it's a personal choice. All right. Yeah. Short stories are a bit challenging, right? To get them good and to get them right in such a short span, right? Yeah. And it's not really a tangible product. And not that I'm in it for making money, but I like to produce
00:25:41
Speaker
something I have a lot of friends that are very prolific short story writers like trying to go find the one issue this magazine that came out this one month that has small permit print run to read this story or the posting it online where they're not it's not there's no real avenue for that to generate a lot of revenue
00:25:58
Speaker
It may get them critical acclaim, which then might get them an agent, which might, you know, and they'll get some pro rates, but it's very short term. But if you're building a career, and listen, if I had to make money being a writer, I'd pursue other avenues like that. For me, it's not about making money. It's like my best thought comes out better in a longer format.
00:26:16
Speaker
Yeah, I would say with the YouTube shorts, for example, the sixteen point six million video that I had that was just by chance luck. It blew up. They pushed it. It went into like an online magazine. I was super humbled.
Social Media's Impact on Creativity
00:26:29
Speaker
I asked the kids, hey, can I please keep this up? Is this OK? Check with your.
00:26:32
Speaker
It was all kindness. It was all accidental. That took subscribers on YouTube Shorts from I think 100 to 20,000. But the money that I got from 16.6 million was about 600 bucks over probably
00:26:51
Speaker
a year, right? But now if I have one video that's how to put a SIM card into a laptop, and that's 1.2 million views, long-term content, as opposed to a short, getting back to short stories and long-form, and that video alone, I think it's brought in like, I would say six grand in revenue. And it's like a grand a year.
00:27:14
Speaker
right? So I would say that if it's relatable, the long form content is really good for learning and actually expressing a well thought out something that would be helpful. And then the short one is good for
00:27:32
Speaker
a quick audience gain, you know, like almost like viral ability or like, uh, and if you pop viral for kindness, you're, you're, you're so blessed because, you know, I tried after to do like, and it's like, no, and I ended up deleting all of these videos because I like, I'm like, can I do that again? It's like, no, it happened because it just happened and that's it. If you chase it, you're going to be one of those Island boys or not. If there's anything wrong with that, I'm just,
00:27:59
Speaker
That's always chasing view count and like I don't want that's very toxic that kind of culture of that and like But I can tell you like when that pop happens and you're you know getting calls from random people like hey I saw your things like it it is very addictive so you can see how that could like Psychologically damage someone if it continues to happen like down like some kind of what path
00:28:23
Speaker
Um, but I, I, I think it very true for yours, like short stories, like, like you said, it will probably pop for the audience a lot, but then it won't actually have long-term, um,
00:28:36
Speaker
And yeah, on that account, that 20,000, I lose 100 every single week. So it's gone down to 18,000. And I'm like, I realize why it's because that's how it works. It's like, if you're not, and then it will continue to go down because of whatever, but there's no real
00:28:59
Speaker
It's yeah, it's weird that that it'll pop up. Um, I couple on Tik TOK that went Oh from a hundred to now 25,000. And then it went up to 45,000. And then it went down to 41 and it stayed there. So I'm like, okay, either they hit the unsubscribe button in like that in the UI on that versus it's easier in YouTube, but yeah.
00:29:26
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I've changed my expectations from, especially with the marketing, right? There's elements of projects that, you know,
00:29:35
Speaker
that's working. I don't like having to go out and promote the books.
Sustainable Growth in Creativity
00:29:39
Speaker
Like I'm not running around trying to pitch my book to every single person. Like I sell publishers out there. You can go buy it and all these different channels. You know, I've made it available, but I had so many people giving us advice. We got it again on social media. You got to spend two hours dead. I'm like, what do we know? Like I'm chasing, I'm chasing this like virality and I'm getting content. I made some great connections because of it, but I'm like, I'm investing too much of my time. Like my goal here is to become a better writer, get more of my thoughts out in the world. If I die,
00:30:04
Speaker
like the next day, year, month, whatever. I want to keep producing great content. And maybe that means that I'm not selling as many books. I know I'm not selling as many books because I'm not out there on social media. It's probably stopping me from getting a delivery agent as quickly as I probably like, but I'd rather find the right person, treat people the right way over a long enough timescale, good things will happen. But all the hours I could have put on social media since I launched, and I was on Instagram and all that stuff for a while, I did it.
00:30:33
Speaker
It's a time when money sucked. There was no return on that investment. It is, for sure. It is. But it was also the type of content I was created. My intent, my original goal was to get my best thought out there in the world. It wasn't to make a ton of money. Again, if it was to make a ton of money, I would mark it very different. The whole framework I'd use to make that determination, I'm going to get off social media and just focus on writing. And for me, that was a good trade-off. And that's what works for me.
00:31:03
Speaker
But you may also want to look at, going back to the ROI, the topic of the pod, is the investments don't always have to be your own. If you understand the scope of an idea, like this idea is great. I know I can get this idea 80% of the way there. To get it to 100, I'm going to need help in this area. Whether it be I need some help with coding, I need some help with marketing. So I know I'm going to have to invest a different resource
00:31:33
Speaker
usually money, right? Or time if I was going to do it myself, like, hey, I could spend five hours a month or a week doing the marketing for this, or I can just pay somebody and not have that burden. I could spend those five hours doing this other idea or making the product better because it's...
00:31:55
Speaker
I think I did idea taking the idea and breaking out into all of its components, really taking a strong evaluation before you get started. You can you can reevaluate and change on the fly. But like, before I go into a book, I'm like, listen, like, again, do I want to spend two years writing this? The intent of this one is, hey, this is your level up, like the one I just finished, like, I
00:32:17
Speaker
gave it to people like I do every other book and like, Hey, this is your level up novel. Don't self publish this one. All right. Well, like that changed my framework. I'm going to have to go in and build a system now and put time and effort into finding a literary agent. And that's a very different type of task, but it's part of being an author. It's part of taking that next step, but I wouldn't be at that step if I hadn't had the mindset that I had of, let me just write good stuff.
Origins of the Podcast: Passionate Beginnings
00:32:41
Speaker
I know I keep going back to the literary side. This is more general and ideas. So I don't want to, I think it's true of any idea, like the podcasts, right? You guys had this, so maybe you guys talk a bit about how you had the idea for the podcast and why you decided to pull the trigger. That's a great question. Rui, it was your idea for the longest time. And I had it too, but we never talked about it for probably a year. We never knew.
00:33:08
Speaker
Right. It was almost like that Seinfeld realization where they're sitting in the coffee shop and they're talking about a show, show about nothing. And this is the show. So we were in your basement and we were just, you know, talking and, uh, we kind of talked about doing a podcast. This could be a podcast. This is a podcast. What's the podcast about? This is what it's about, right? So it was like that Seinfeld moment, uh, we had. So that's when it started. Um, what a year ago now was it? Yeah.
00:33:37
Speaker
Yeah. And you had, uh, you were just like, you've been wanting to do it for a long time. It's like, I've been wanting to, it's like, I didn't want to ask you cause I know how hard we're both working and all of the different areas. I was like, I felt guilty. I was like, no, I don't, but like, as I, I'm so glad you brought it up, right? Like I have been, uh, it's been marinating in my head as an idea for so long, uh, because of the things that we talk about. It should not be like in a vacuum. It could help other people, right?
00:34:06
Speaker
Right. Plus it helps me, like I'm not the best public speaker or, or, you know, not the best on camera microphone. So this kind of helps me. It's been helping me, you know, learn how to, uh, properly speak on, uh, on camera on a microphone. I typically wouldn't this, I would avoid all this,
Passion vs. Financial Gain: True Fulfillment
00:34:22
Speaker
right? So it's kind of getting me out of my, out of my shell, so to speak. It's like your skateboarding.
00:34:28
Speaker
Yeah, skateboarding, man. As soon as I got on that skateboard at your place, man, that was awesome. That was my first time on a board. I got a surprise for you. But now that I've said that, it's not a surprise, but surprise. But anyways, well, that's very cryptic. But dude, I was watching. I was like, wow, you're actually legit liking that? I was like, oh my god. It's fun, man. It's crazy to think of.
00:34:54
Speaker
Okay, so I guess bring me back down to Earth, Chris, if I go off, but can we blindly agree that if you just focus on the money, you'll never do what you want, you'll never be happy? If you woke up, if everyone just on the planet, boom, 10 million US dollars in their account, they never have to do anything, they're set.
00:35:14
Speaker
Um, and they can, they're like, Oh, I can do it. Anything I want every day for the rest of my life. If you mentally can like metaphorically put yourself in that place and start there. Like it was true. And then, you know, write for passion, skateboard for passion, you know, everything that you do for passion, Ruby. I know you have many, um, but.
00:35:37
Speaker
Is that not the formula for true happiness? Like we shouldn't judge the ROI on like what makes sense from capitalism perspective, right? Like none of that stuff is actually like, it's good for them or whatever. It makes money. Whatever that means. It doesn't make anyone happier, healthier, better. Like if it's not, you know, like is that a good blind statement or is that just too granduous to be that, you know,
00:36:05
Speaker
I think it's funny because I've had this conversation a lot. I would love for Disney, I guess Disney owns Marvel, Disney owns everybody. I'd love for a big Hollywood studio to come up to me and say, hey, we want to turn the Rainy River Beast trilogy to movies. Great. Pull out the Brinks truck. I'm all for the capitalism side of it. I'd be great.
00:36:29
Speaker
for a sudden ROI that didn't return on that investment of time I spent, right? But I'd only get there if I treated, again, treating people the right way over a long enough time scale, right? I could be at an event and I could be, you know, this kid can ask me a question I don't really like and I can just kind of blow it off.
00:36:46
Speaker
And you don't know
Motivations for Writing: Passion and Legacy
00:36:47
Speaker
that person, we sit in the room, or I can take my time and focus on the one kid with my original intention. And he overhears and sees the passion, right? You never know who's looking or who's watching. So, but if you do it because you're trying to just look good, which I think is a lot of social media, it's not exactly just be honest, be yourself, be true to yourself. And that's, that's why I've pushed back on the social media side, not to revisit that. But going back to the Brinks truck for the movie, Hart
00:37:12
Speaker
Yes, money is good. I can I could do more things in my family. I would that would be a huge level for my career and give me the opportunity to work on more ambitious projects because I have more time to devote to this passion that I have. Right. It's a side hustle. Like it's getting up at five, five, 15 in the morning to write for an hour before the kids wake up. But
00:37:33
Speaker
So being able to do that more would be awesome. But more importantly, the best, one of the best pieces of myself, right? But again, I'll go back to the first Rainy Ruby's book, which is as much my love letter to hockey is the book I would have loved as a nine or 10 year old kid. I had a lot of deep seated reasons for writing that novel. It's going to go influence so many more kids. That's, that's above the money. And it can, it's a nice thing to say, but it truly how I feel. And yeah, that's my lens. That's not somebody else's again.
00:38:02
Speaker
money is great because it empowers and enables other things. Right. Yeah. It's like a gift. Great power comes great responsibility. Again, the time scale, right? Like for me, like I'd love to be able to retire from my day job, but I don't feel like I'm ever going to, what's great. It depends on what you're doing, right? If you're a skateboarder, I think when you're 80, 85, it's going to be hard to do. I mean, Tony Hawk's kind of setting the bar pretty high. But like,
00:38:28
Speaker
But writing certain ideas, your ideas can shift as you get older, but it's kind of the one creative thing that's really stuck. I mean, it's been 15 years of this, but it's something I can do when I'm 90, 95, if I'm lucky enough to live that long. Yes, because the body deteriorates a little bit faster than the mind. I want to continue to get better and improve as a writer, and not everyone gets that opportunity. So even now,
00:38:53
Speaker
Again, why I'm more choosy about my ideas right now is saying, listen, let's assume this is the last book I ever get to write. If I'm lucky enough to live long to finish this book, go through all the editing revisions, all the hard work, but let me pretend this is the last book. So out of
Guiding Principles in Life and Creativity
00:39:08
Speaker
all the ideas and things I had idea, like, all right, this is the one that I really, this is a message I want to say, and there's a lot more passion behind it. This is the one I'm writing, it's my last book.
00:39:17
Speaker
Now, when I'm done with that one, I'm going to do that again. If this is going to be my last book, what do I want to put into the world? What is it called? Not a mantra, but do you use an affirmation like that going into anything? For example, this is the last customer interaction I'll ever have before I get hit by the
00:39:40
Speaker
or this is the last, I know they say live every day like it's last, but that's too vague to actually be impactful where you're like, you could almost like, not mantra, what's it called, a firm that you're like, this is going to be like the last thing that I will do as a project, as a whatever, to leave my legacy. So like, imagine that conversation with that kid, right? You're saying hypothetically, this will be the last
00:40:08
Speaker
thing that I say to a human, right? It's like basically this is the last time. It's so motivational to think of it like that because you're like, but also it's pretty burdening on you to always think, holy crap, this is, I have to put everything into this, like, you know. Yeah. I think there's definitely a whole sidetrack that you can go with down with terms of stoicism in terms of a philosophy and approach towards life. Right. Yeah. But I think from a
00:40:33
Speaker
In terms of mantra, the word I use is principles. I'm actually doing a whole series on, not to keep plugging my podcast, but I'm in the middle of my summer series of like, I went through a process a few years ago of wanting to reevaluate my life and what I was spending my time on, right? What framework am I using for things like ROI or what do I pursue as an idea? What framework am I using for my years, months, quarter, whatever you want to do, right? But it really boils down to the, all I have is a code of principles and these 13
00:41:00
Speaker
principles, I've stuck with me, I've changed, I changed the last one one time.
Encouragement for Aspiring Creatives
00:41:06
Speaker
They've really stuck. And it just enables me to say, you know, listen, these are asked, these are aspirational on a day to day basis, like I can be a jerk sometimes like I can I can have I'll have my moments where I don't live up to that principle. But if I regularly remind myself, I will continue to improve. Right. And so one of them is just create beneficial things with passion.
00:41:27
Speaker
That's it's vague enough where you don't feel like I have to, you know, I have to be stoic. I have to be perfect at every person. Like it's the last, the last time I'm ever going to see them. Cause that can, that there is a deep end there, but I have this, this mentality that I, that can mold. It's a framework to help me make decisions, but it's also a framework to help me finish them, finish things or give me permission to change course.
00:41:56
Speaker
to be like susceptible to interruption without, you know, like breaking flow and like all of that stuff. But also how well your skills developed, right? I mean, just to go back to, for me, it's like, let's say from a listener's perspective, right? There's probably, there might be a listener who has always dreamt about writing a novel, right? If you go into the expectation that, listen, just write the book, writers write.
00:42:24
Speaker
Don't use somebody else's framework for success. And after you write that book, try editing. By going through the process and putting yourself out there a bit, you start making connections with people that give you more perspective. A lot of what I'm saying now, 15 years in, I'm regurgitating input from hundreds, if not thousands, of people, whether it be a beta reader, whether it be a mentor, whether it be
00:42:53
Speaker
someone I heard talk at a panel at a recent convention, right? Like the phrase, writing is my best thought, is so central to me as a writer now, but I heard it from my mentor, one of my best friends, and whose career is skyrocketing. And it's been great to see. And you get bits and pieces from people as you do things. So understand, you know, for our virtual listener here, like your return on investment right now on this first project might be really small.
00:43:24
Speaker
You just, you did a thing. Congratulations. It might suck. It's okay. You made a, you wrote a thing. Now you, it's a stepping stone, exactly.
Enjoying the Creative Process
00:43:35
Speaker
And if you keep, if you're still passionate about it, and if you're, and if you're your principles from, from my friend, if my principles are aligned with what I'm doing,
00:43:45
Speaker
I should have a very healthy mental framework to continue on that path or decide, you know what? I wrote the thing and I hated it. I hated the process. I don't like editing. I don't like marketing, whatever it is. I don't like skateboarding, right? Or you fall in love with it. We'll see about that. We'll see about that.
00:44:06
Speaker
But again, podcasting, right? It's kind of addictive, but there's a reason why. What's the percentage? Like 90% of podcasts fail from the first like 10 episodes or something. There's got to be a stat out there about how many there is.
00:44:19
Speaker
And I wonder why people that do it for non, yeah, they do it for money. Like why do things fail? Because they're doing it for money. Like, oh, like, cause if you, if you have enough money to like, and it's not taking enough time, like an hour a day, like Ruby and I, like we look so forward to this because we could just be ourselves. We could talk to some amazing people alike. And we're like, this is like the highlight. Like we could grab our coffee. It was like, it's like, it's just us, you know? And, um,
00:44:45
Speaker
and this will go on indefinitely. Knock on wood because I love this pod because we love doing it and it's not work. It's like, so what would start in a place where you're loving the journey, not the destination and just
00:45:03
Speaker
You know, every day I was like, I quit skateboarding as a kid because I was focused on sponsors and getting better in magazines and stuff. I was like, this is just awful. I hate it. And then I got back into it as an adult and far surpassed my skill level as a kid that was sponsored.
00:45:19
Speaker
Uh, granted there's no sponsor. I'm not seeking that. I don't want that. I don't like, I might actively, you know, if that ever, I probably wouldn't, unless I could give it back to someone else, like as a weird way of like deflecting, um, you know, considering that situation, but like, I just, I don't, when I skate, I don't even have a goal. I'm like, I'm going to ride around.
00:45:39
Speaker
whatever happens happens. But the kids, because they're focused on getting good, they get hyperfixated on a certain maneuver and they bear down and get tunnel vision. And because that's very tight and constrictive, like both in cardiovascular wise for the cortisol and the certain mechanical movements of your body for that particular maneuver, which aren't counterbalanced with the
00:46:03
Speaker
antagonist of those movements, meaning that like the left side of their body is going to get really tired fast from that trick. They end up hurting themselves and spraining their ankles and not hydrating it. And that hyper fixation of wanting or I call it like skate greed would be like, I want to learn. I want to get better.
00:46:20
Speaker
right? I'm like, I want this five second YouTube clip to be successful. So yeah, exactly. I just skate around. If there's an obstacle in the way, I'll just maybe I'll do something. I'm just having fun man. It's just like headphones on. I'm like, I'm just, it is literally bliss. No, no goals, no intention. And like,
00:46:39
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's it's super good. Like the the journey part is really important. Do you love this moment? I love this moment. I'm so happy that Chris came on and, you know, really. And like this is a highlight of we got sad a little bit because we weren't able to do it for a couple of weeks because, you know, schedules and all that stuff.
00:46:58
Speaker
Um, right now we have like six episodes that haven't been uploaded. Um, so a little bit backlog, but it, it doesn't matter. None of that stuff matters. It's just
Balancing Passion Projects and Practical Demands
00:47:07
Speaker
this interaction. Like we can post it and post it. It'll be out. None of that stuff matters. It really matters that we love the time and the journey. Yeah, but listen, it's not to say that, listen, five years from now, there could be an opportunity where you guys are doing this professionally, where you're going to have more.
00:47:23
Speaker
of a structure around what you do. You're gonna build better systems or tighter systems to make sure, all right, we're gonna have this episode on Tuesday, this on Thursday, this one on Friday, and there's some elite level podcasters out there. It's their job and they do a wonderful thing and they add a lot of value to the world because they have a bigger platform.
00:47:40
Speaker
you know, this, even for your podcast, my podcast, it doesn't matter. Like it can, it can morph into something else. It can just become, it's just continue to grow. Just continue to be passion project and you build a small tribe of people. Not everything has to be this globe spanning thing, right? We have what? 4,000 television channels as opposed to the four when our grandparents were alive or in my case alive, but many cases like when they were
00:48:05
Speaker
the forties and fifties, what was the four channels? Yeah. Yeah. And you had to like, uh, you had to do this thing and you had to get up, right? And then you got to slap it on the side and it was good. Then there was a collective, like, all right, there's a lot of gatekeepers, things like that. So we live in this new era, this new culture where I think we have to all get comfortable with like, you might, your, your return on investment is not that you're not going to be the next J K Rowling, right? That gets lucky with the higher, higher, lucky. I mean,
00:48:30
Speaker
with Harry Potter because it's cultural phenomenon. You just never know your viral video. But I had a kid come up to me last week that got my book and read it and said, hey, I love this book so much. He was so passionate about it. I'm like, wow, cool, I really influenced it. Kid knew nothing about hockey. And now all of a sudden is looking into hockey history like, wow, my love letter to hockey that I wrote for nine-year-old me got to get this kid excited about the sport that's given me so much joy in my life. And that was better. You could have given me $1,000 check to buy my books.
00:49:00
Speaker
That kid's interaction meant more to me, right? If someone wants to give me $1,000 for the books, I'm happy to do it. Yeah, let's make that clear. In terms of the actual, like, spin, like, the return, like, it gave me so much fuel. Honestly, at the time, I kind of really needed it because I was in a creative rut. There's a multi-month process of getting from, like, editing the last book, starting the agent pitch to starting this one was, like, the biggest gap I've ever had. And it sucked.
00:49:26
Speaker
passion projects are key man they're so they're so important even for our our mental well-being right we need that creative outlet to kind of fall back on can't just once it becomes a job this podcast once it becomes a job we'll have a sidecast talking about like video games and stuff right
00:49:43
Speaker
I wonder if that point that if everything gets popular because we have to like cater to capitalism in such a way because it's dominant whatever we have. So like maybe if it becomes naturally organically gross as something that comes something you don't like you sell it at that point.
00:50:02
Speaker
Maybe
Finding Value in Mundane Tasks
00:50:03
Speaker
that's like a good out. You're like, Oh, that pod, like it, it got way too popular. I sold that. Like, and then you take that money to do like the side stuff you love. Maybe. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Oh, it got popular. Uh, I didn't want to do it. That's why. Okay. Um, yeah, I mean, absolutely. But you know what? If it, if it ever does get popular and becomes a job, that's perfectly fine. I'd rather be doing this than, uh, you know, mining coal or whatever, whatever I do for a living. Yeah.
00:50:33
Speaker
Maybe with like an RTX, getting a theory, I'm mining that, but I think it's a great point though. I think that there's, we've talked a lot about the creative side of things, but I think even in our day jobs, like there is a certain amount of what any of us, most of us do with our day to day. That's not sexy. That's just, it can seem rote. It can seem mundane. I think you have to find the value.
00:51:00
Speaker
I think you can, you can change your mindset. Like it may be looking over a longer time scale. It might be looking at the impact you're having on people that maybe it's three or four steps down the chain of what you're doing, right? You might do one part of an assembly line of a product, but it might be a product that actually is doing good in the world. It might be something like, wow, let me get up over.
00:51:20
Speaker
over the wall to see what's actually happening here. It might be bad. Like, hey, you know what? Like, I'm not really adding value, but it doesn't align with my value. So you're making changes based on that. Yeah. But that's a good point. Yeah. You know, these ideas you might you might say, you know what? Like, I'm feeling stuck with my job and my career. I have an idea I can change that, whether it be a personally change my role or I can maybe change the direction of the company in a small little way to maybe reoriented back onto a path that's going to lead to greater good.
00:51:49
Speaker
Right. Um, or more profit if that's your motivator. So I think that mentality of finding the joy or finding the meaning behind what you're doing can really help a lot of people. Cause like,
00:52:04
Speaker
It doesn't, not every job, not every project has to be this undying passion. It can be good enough, right? Hey, like this job doesn't fill my soul, but it puts food on my table on a roof over my head and I have a good enough life that it enables me to go skateboarding for two hours every day. Or, sorry, I keep going back to skateboarding, but like I get to, you know, I could funnel a little bit of the money I make from this day job into,
00:52:34
Speaker
funding a self published novel that gets on and you never know where that's gonna go. Yeah, it's like you're investing in yourself at that point. Yes, I love that. So I think it's telling people don't don't think about these grand scheme projects. But I think the little day to day stuff is actually where a lot of people get like goes back to we said before about like, what might stop you from doing these things. I think it's that feeling like you're in that kind of rut or there's not
00:53:03
Speaker
finding joy in the mundane sometimes. Yeah.
Sparking Creativity Through Environment Changes
00:53:06
Speaker
Yeah. And that makes sense. That's a, that's a good, um, good, um, last thought or a final message. Find the good in the mundane. I like it.
00:53:20
Speaker
And to prioritize your happiness probably over all else. And as long as it's not putting people at a financial, honestly, you have to like counterbalance the harm effect, but your happiness should be your primary concern. It does bleed over into every area of your life. People when you're working with them can tell that, Oh man, he's really unhappy. He's producing great work, but he's, he's, there's something going on. Like, so happiness is core to, you know,
00:53:49
Speaker
Well, happiness flows around you too, right? It's making sure that what your goals are like, yeah, maybe it takes two years to create this project where the actual time it takes is maybe a thousand hours, right? You can get that done in a couple of months if you really put everything into it. But then if you're, you know, your kids have a shower in three weeks, DC. Oh, yes, here in the States, right? We have, you know, Department of Children and Families like
00:54:11
Speaker
getting arrested now, like it's gonna put you have to find a balance that makes sense to for where you are in life. Yeah, those are resources. Yeah, goes back to the time thing we talked about. Yeah. And if you put too much time into one category, everything suffers. So the balance is good.
00:54:29
Speaker
Um, you know, like sleep versus like all things else. Like, did you, I think I told you really, but did I tell you, Chris, that like, there's like, uh, I think I heard it on Andrew Huberman podcast where he said that if you're not moving to a different, uh, position, not position as in standing and sitting, but if you're not going upstairs, uh, for a walk into different like settings, sceneries and stuff, like the odd human beings go into, um, preservation as opposed to growth.
00:54:58
Speaker
So like I just went to Starbucks the other day. I was like, I'm loving it. I'm in flow quick. And I'm like, I'm moving around, not like a scatterbrained like thing, but just, okay, it's been, you know, three hours. Let's change the background and let, let's go work outside or let's just, you know, no, sorry. No, it's okay. I mean, environment plays a huge role here. I know we're trying to wrap up here, but I love doing this little tangent, right? Like there,
00:55:27
Speaker
This is a great book. I'll give you the links you put in the show notes, but it's called the extended mind. And it really talks about how like you can, people have built spaces for certain types of thoughts or actions or tasks or creation. Again, both creative and for actually getting things done. Like the whole off open office plan, right? Like how it's kind of an abject failure in a lot of ways. Like there's a lot of what people thought was good, but the actual proof is in the pudding. Like,
00:55:52
Speaker
So giving yourself different kinds of spaces and contexts is the reason the man cave BS, right? Like there's a reason why we might want to like be in a certain space to do a certain type of work. So, you know, if you're getting stuck or not feeling the creative mojo, or you might be at a, I go back to skateboarding, right? Like certain parks might not have a scene where you feel like you can, you're having fun, but
00:56:17
Speaker
It might be going back to a dark out where you got like a, you know, a curb you can grind or something. You know what I mean? Like find the joint for you, but it can be environmental too. And it might just be a matter of getting up and going to Starbucks and doing that project and having a space that's dedicated.
00:56:35
Speaker
Yeah. And if you're stuck and you have that tunnel vision, um, best thing you can do, I found is don't work on it. Like go for a walk. It's so easy really to get into that, uh, bear down tight. I'm going to work on it till I produce that. But like, if you're stuck on something,
00:56:52
Speaker
You just got to like let it go and you go for a walk and then you'd be walking and be like, I'm so happy I'm not doing that. And you're like, oh my God, I got it. It's that space that just makes everything like it's hard to do and easy to say.
Conclusion and Farewell to Chris Croyder
00:57:06
Speaker
Chris, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. We would love to have you back because there's so many different ideas to pick your brain about. And Chris, his podcast is Chris will, Chrisl, Chrisl,
00:57:19
Speaker
Chris will deal with it. Yeah. Deal with it. And it's on all different podcasting platforms. And thank you so much and appreciate it. Really. Thank you. Thank you guys. Thanks for having me on. This is awesome.