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Silenced Voices: Unraveling the Social Implications of Internet Censorship
104 Plays1 year ago
In this compelling episode of Codeplay Culture, join hosts Rui and Logan Dunning as they delve into the complex and often controversial issue of internet censorship and its far-reaching impact on society. Explore the intricate web of policies, motivations, and consequences that shape the digital landscape, as they discuss the delicate balance between preserving security, protecting free speech, and fostering a safe online environment.
Listen in as our hosts examine the various forms of internet censorship implemented across the globe, from state-enforced restrictions to corporate content moderation. They also investigate the implications on individual liberties, access to information, and the potential for stifling innovation and creativity.
Don't miss this thought-provoking episode that raises essential questions about the role of censorship in our interconnected world. Tune in to Codeplay Culture and join the conversation on the delicate dance between freedom and control in the digital age.
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Transcript
Introduction to Internet Censorship
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to the Codeplay Culture podcast, where we discuss tech, gaming, health, and the world around us.
00:00:10
Speaker
Welcome back to the Codeplay Culture podcast. Rui and Logan back at it again with a interesting topic this time, the impact of internet censorship and this trend that has moved all the way from, you know, you've seen politicians kicked off platforms, you've seen cancel culture arise. It is a trend that I'm not sure if it's going to run out of steam. Rui, what's your elevator pitch on
00:00:40
Speaker
you know, explaining what this trend is. Well, what is this trend, really? This trend is nothing more than a the elevator pitch. If this is what it is, it's nothing more than a plot from each government to control what and how we think and what we say.
00:01:05
Speaker
This is their ultimate plan. And that is my pitch, which is not really an elevator pitch per se.
Censorship as Government Propaganda?
00:01:12
Speaker
Yeah, elevator as in the time to say it. But yeah, that was good, like better than good. You're right. And that you remember when Covid first came out and it was all shiny and new. It's like the new version. Right. And then all of a sudden on YouTube,
00:01:29
Speaker
There was a blade at the bottom. It was like, oh, this section is for global news? Why are they on YouTube? It was almost like a way to inject the government's propaganda, fear-mongering tactics directly into everyone's... They know that people are cable cutters, so they're like, okay, we'll get on YouTube, all this stuff. I don't know, man. It just seemed like...
00:01:58
Speaker
Oh, COVID aside and anti-vax and all that stuff, none of that stuff matters, right? It's more about what we're talking about now. Well, actually it doesn't matter to be frank. It was only really, I find only really to divide us. You know what I mean? Like that kind of stuff, which proven time and time again, divide and conquer is not good. Censorship. Exactly.
Elon Musk and Censorship-free Platforms
00:02:20
Speaker
Probably not good. So I'm really hoping that
00:02:25
Speaker
So Elon with Twitter, I know he's taking after, you know, my, my, my kind of 50,000 foot view, like I don't, you know, follow tabloids or his life or whatever. But, you know, I think the SpaceX and the Starlink and the
00:02:42
Speaker
Tesla like not to minimize it or put it in a container because this transformed humanity like probably the greatest person that's ever lived in our generation like I would say Is there anyone I don't know probably not like he's like pretty much You know, I don't know. I don't know the Edward Newton Newton of our time or whatever it is
00:03:06
Speaker
he left Grimes or Grimes left him like it was his wife or I can't remember. And then, and then when he got Twitter, um, some say like he's just been, you know, dicking around at Twitter, like, you know, like there's nothing super innovative coming out there. But I will say that I think it's just the calm before the storm. And I really hope, um,
00:03:29
Speaker
that he's going to create kind of like a TikTok, but not China based, Canada based. And it will be
Hate Speech and Censorship Challenges
00:03:38
Speaker
essentially free of censorship and whatever will bubble up to the top will be completely organic. Now that is, there has to be, like the only like censorship you need to have on that is
00:03:52
Speaker
Um, the hate because if you, and that's a slippery slope, right? Who determines what that's the part. It's so difficult because I have a feeling like, you know, if you, if you just let it bubble up on its own, it's going to hurt.
00:04:09
Speaker
millions of people, it's going to hurt their feelings. It's going to, there's going to be spikes in, you know, suicide. Like it's really dangerous to let it probably not. And that's, I think natural, like that's just humans current, like, I guess maturity or like not everyone is like as suave
00:04:28
Speaker
as really that will make those good decisions with a nice big fat warm heart. There's some people out there that kick puppies and there's a mix of people.
00:04:43
Speaker
Better not that's the yeah like that's the beauty of having that bubble to the top right you can see the problem cases i feel like as on a human level we know what hate is and we know that we shouldn't do it we don't need somebody telling us.
00:04:59
Speaker
What their version of that is, right, aside from our parents who should have instructed us, you know, properly and tell us what is wrong and what is right. Yeah. We don't need a legislation by a let's say a bias or a politician, political party with an agenda for telling us what they think should be, you know, what is hateful. Right.
Morality and Government Overreach
00:05:24
Speaker
As humans, we know.
00:05:26
Speaker
We feel it. It's almost intrinsic that we know. It's on a biological level, an atomic level. We know what hate is. We can feel it. And we know that we shouldn't do it. And some people go astray when they, I don't know, some circumstances in their lives have kind of warped their minds.
00:05:52
Speaker
To not have that, right? To not have that bone in your body, right? But yeah, we don't need people or governments telling us what to feel or what to think. To me, that's where I have to kind of draw the line and take that stance. Like on the government, 110,000% completely agree.
00:06:19
Speaker
why I mentioned Elon and there's a lot of people that are anti Elon, like at the end of the day, guys, like you could be anti, you know, Trump, you could be like just pick someone that like definitely warrants it. Do you know what I mean? Like from the surface of like what he's done and accomplished versus like tyrants all over the world. Right.
Need for Government Censorship?
00:06:42
Speaker
Just pick someone that kind of deserves that kind of
00:06:45
Speaker
You know, it's just as we've seen, it's easier to hate than it is. Yeah, it's easier to hate somebody than it is to appreciate and look at their character and like them. It's so much easier to hate, especially when a whole mob is in on that hatred. It's infectious, right? Yes. Sorry, go ahead.
00:07:09
Speaker
No, I was going to say that that kind of leads me to to think right like I know I made the statement I'm going to contradict going to contradict myself. Maybe we do as a society need.
00:07:23
Speaker
a certain censorship from this hate from infesting society. I don't
Transparency in Censorship Policies
00:07:32
Speaker
know. I'm typically not on the fence when it comes to this. I don't like government intervention in what we see or do, but for a cohesive and long-lasting society,
00:07:45
Speaker
I feel like there may be times where the government has to intervene and restrict what the users, you shouldn't say users. Sorry. I was working all day, not the users. Restrict what its citizens see and do, um, just for the interests of a more cohesive, uh, society, right?
00:08:11
Speaker
Yes. And if they do any of that, it should be public domain. It should be visible on a FAQ or whatever. Right. Transparency here. And I think I told you about this in person or over a video call, but why I'm like, you know,
00:08:32
Speaker
super pro Elon for the Twitter stuff is he recently and it was on fire ship, I think where he for those that don't know fire ship is arguably the most popular coding YouTube channel of the history of coding channels. You know, I don't know when that's bigger, but the guy's super brilliant. I'm pretty sure if there's any coders listening to the podcast, you probably heard a fire ship on YouTube, but
00:09:00
Speaker
Elon and Twitter, they released all of the, well, not all of the code, a big fraction of the code, um, open source. Like here's all the code and there were sections in it and we should probably like go through it actually. Maybe really, if you could get it up, just to say like, I think you got to type in open source Twitter code recently released. They have sections in the code, um, that
00:09:22
Speaker
give buffs to politicians like Democrats. They have sections in the code that says, you know, if it's Elon, do this, right? Like, but that part, like him knowing that, right, they're putting it out as full transparency, right? And if they actually do what we're, you know, what a lot of us are probably thinking with Twitter is like, just make it completely
00:09:51
Speaker
All the censorship will be public domain and then everything bubbles up naturally. They'll open source as much as they can without demonetizing the platform because companies like Facebook, they open source parts, not the whole thing.
00:10:11
Speaker
then
Censorship on Social Media Platforms
00:10:12
Speaker
you won't have this shadow banning, for example. Like I'm currently shadow banned on TikTok. And I used to, yeah, because my channel posts a lot of skateboarding stuff. And once they came out with their new terms and conditions, and this happened like a year
00:10:32
Speaker
a half ago. Nothing has gone viral ever since. And any skateboarding stuff posted immediately will like over a bunch of periods of time, you'll get Shadow Man for that. Meaning that
00:10:48
Speaker
Like you won't come up and for you pages, like you'll just get 300 views on every post. It'll never pop to like 10,000, never popped to wherever. It's because they don't want that dangerous acts. If a kid sees someone doing a skateboarding trick, they go out and try it, they break their neck, right? So that is a form of censorship, right? And that one,
00:11:13
Speaker
I mean, for me, I'm not ready at this point mentally to take a stance on dangerous acts, but maybe just without giving it too much thought, probably you want to protect your children, right? If they see something, they're like, yeah, I'm going to go and set that on fire because it looks pretty cool.
00:11:32
Speaker
I wish there was a way to opt in. Actually, you can't really, because if they see it, then they're going to go try it. So you can't really opt into, oh, this is a professional, you know, you can't try it, whatever. They do have that tag. I'm not a pro, but they do have a tag for pros and stuff that says, this is a professional. Do not try this at home. That TikTok automatically adds. But it's the censorship and choosing what goes viral and what does not, which is not OK.
00:12:03
Speaker
like kindness for sure should, you know, bubble up and go viral, right? Because it's like, like I had one video on YouTube shorts was 16.6 million for like giving a, a board away. And that I feel like I don't know if YouTube stuff is like as, um,
00:12:22
Speaker
like kind of like clean, not clean, but is it like manipulated or is it not manipulated for like, OK, you know what? We're going to give this guy a bump for whatever reason. Or was it natural? Right. Yeah. For me, it felt natural because it was very weird with the YouTube short. It went. I would get people that would message me in Mississauga. That's odd. Then a couple of weeks later, people would message me from
00:12:48
Speaker
um, Georgetown. That's right. And then further out, um, then it kept on, it kind of moved like that, like kind of like it grew like a, you know, like a bomb or something, you know, like, but a, a nice mom, right? It just kind of moved in a circle on the map. Yeah. But like, I'm not sure if, uh, like that was natural or not. And then, um,
00:13:16
Speaker
Forget about what you don't know and what you don't know.
00:13:20
Speaker
Like if, if he does it, right. And he's like, these are Twitter's like 10 commandments, like for lack of a better word that we will censor no matter what, like, you know, hate speech, like acts of crime, violence, human trafficking, like all of the, like the standard, like, for sure. This is like the new age, not new age, but like 2022 is like 10 commandments, like, you know, version two of the, whatever it is, right? Kind of more for
Social Media Transparency and Government Influence
00:13:48
Speaker
like digital, right? Right. And, um,
00:13:51
Speaker
then I wonder if all these other companies like Google and TikTok will adopt those. They'll be like, you know what, we're going to do that too, because they got a lot of success and we're hosed if we, if we have a black box, algorithmically manipulative censorship, right? Right.
00:14:11
Speaker
Yeah, don't forget also, yeah, Elon can do all this, but this all has a lot to do with government policies too, right? Yes. Can't exclude that fact that, yeah, he can open up all this, but we will be subjective.
00:14:28
Speaker
or subjected to government regulations when it comes to things like that, right? He can open up the doors, you know, completely wide, but it'll just get stamped or they'll get shut by the government or at least, you know, leave a little crack open and let out what they deem, you know, appropriate. Yep. Right. So it all has to do with the legislation because actually the first time my first brush with this whole thing was I was surfing on YouTube.
00:14:55
Speaker
I shouldn't say surfing. I was watching videos on YouTube and some ad came up where YouTube it was a YouTube ad like Google or is the one that they're the ones that paid for this spot. Right. Yeah. Right. It was something about signing a petition to stop Bill C-11 in Canada. Yes. Yes. And for those who don't know, Bill C-11 is something that will regulate your content to only Canadian. Well, firstly, Canadian.
00:15:25
Speaker
secondary everything else so it will censor what you see on YouTube and on the internet period and a lot of on a lot of websites I'm assuming Facebook and ads and and just everywhere right everywhere online it's an online censorship act not specific to YouTube so that's my first brush with c11 I read up on that bill it's um
00:15:49
Speaker
It's pretty crazy, I have to say. I wouldn't support that kind of bill. For sure. Absolutely. That has nothing to do with the cohesiveness of society and that's just more self-interest than anything else.
00:16:06
Speaker
Yeah. And I originally heard about Bill C-11 from other Canadian YouTubers that were posting about it. If this
Impact of Canada's Bill C-11
00:16:17
Speaker
goes through, it will change everything. It's awful. It's a way for them to insert their level of control around these different
00:16:28
Speaker
I don't know too much about it. I just know that when I read it and I was like, oh shoot, this cannot happen, right? It basically like goes against, you know, free speech and like all of this stuff because of like how like free speech will like naturally bubble up or if it will be like manipulated and, you know, injected into different, you know, forums. And Canada is like, you know,
00:16:54
Speaker
very small compared to the US financially, population-wise, per capita, all that stuff. So you can imagine there's similar bills or not bills, whatever they call it in US that are maybe already in effect, not just at the country level, but the state level. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. I think it's a big
00:17:18
Speaker
There's so many things. And then even the stuff that like is like visible. Yeah, that's a bill for that. Whatever. Yeah. There's all the behind the scenes stuff that you don't really like that goes without being said. Right. Yeah. Like let's say, for example, that Bill C-11 went through in Canada. And let's say, for example, that Twitter was still closed source and it was a Canadian product. Right. Yeah. People from Canada used it. And then all of that code manipulation in there. Right.
00:17:48
Speaker
Like that could be outside of the bill, right? So there's the two things like what the government can do or what, you know, based on that bill and what the developers have implemented to comply or to not comply. Cause they can just lie and say we do or whatever, right? And then they can add in their own layers that says, you know, if this person posts, then
00:18:16
Speaker
I don't know, whatever, right? Right. Which, which I feel like if they start layering in these government level, uh, like bills and laws and whatnot, having a, a, like a public, um, blockchain, for lack of better words of here's the FAQs for what's censored and what's not. Here's the laws that we comply to. Um,
Healthcare and Censorship Parallels
00:18:42
Speaker
it'll just,
00:18:44
Speaker
at the end of the day, it's just going to push people to more dark webby-like platforms for free speech. It's the same as there's a bunch of new prescription laws coming to Canada where essentially
00:19:05
Speaker
instead like for people that are taking like their glue tide, do look glue tide, semi-glue tide, which is Ozumpic, and also other injectables, TRT, the old gamut, instead of being able to get a prescription, right, and your doctor will whatever, you will have to go into your doctor for like a
00:19:28
Speaker
injection. You know what I mean? So like they're basically like access to medication and stuff is ridiculously hard in Canada, right? And they're trying to make it even more hard. So like there's a bunch of Canadian YouTubers like throwing up arms on these new
00:19:44
Speaker
medication laws and stuff like that. Like Derek from MorePlates, he put out such a huge video. I think Andrew Huberman put out a huge video. I think Joe Rogan mentioned some of it too.
00:20:01
Speaker
And like Derek from more plays, he'll he's got a bunch of like USA companies for that because because Canada is such a, you know, a crapshoot in terms of being able to set up any like clinics, pharmacies, like compounding pharmacies, all that stuff. It's like, forget about it. We have such a small population and we're so much more locked down than like
00:20:28
Speaker
You know, like, Oh, do you want to bring your brother like to the, I don't know, the wrestling match? Like, Oh no, no. He, uh, his bedtime's like 3 PM in the afternoon. Oh, Canada, right? Like we're like really like restricted from our parents, which is in this case is a government. That's what it feels
Historical Perspective on Censorship
00:20:47
Speaker
like, right? Yeah. Um, yeah, no, for sure. For sure. I'm just like, no.
00:20:54
Speaker
It's pretty insane, man. It's pretty insane. I even heard I heard crazy stuff like this new streaming act or C11 is going to start targeting VPN providers.
00:21:09
Speaker
and cracking down on VPN, right? And we all know who and which countries crack down on VPN. I don't want to name any countries here. But there are a lot of countries that crack down on VPNs and you actually get jail time for using a VPN if you're a citizen of said country. Interesting.
00:21:28
Speaker
It's not really conducive to our liberty to restrict this, but
00:21:41
Speaker
going back, you know, going back like, I don't know, censorship's not new, right? Going back thousands of years you had during the Roman Empire, you had censors whose duty was to maintain public, public image and public order and just keep things, keep the people in line, I suppose, from or sense or censor people from certain things. I'm assuming that's that was their job title. Probably also
00:22:09
Speaker
they took census. I mean, that's the whole root word of censors. Somebody takes census and yes, they took a census of the population. That was their job, but it was also public morality by restricting what citizens would read and see. So censorship is not anything new by any stretch of the imagination. It's a
00:22:33
Speaker
It's a title. It's a philosophy that's been around for a long time. And politicians are wise to the to the fact that it it can assert dominance and control over its over its citizens. And that hasn't changed in a long time and it probably won't for the next 2000 years.
00:22:55
Speaker
Yep. A lot of these prehistoric baggage we bring along the way instead of this radical reform, which I feel like it's coming to a head where at the end of the day,
00:23:12
Speaker
the government, it has its goods and its bads. I don't think those are words. It has its goods and bads. Yeah, it's good and it's bad. Like these three-year-olds explaining the government, it's good. Because you do want people not running around with guns and shooting people and all that stuff. You do want police. Naturally. Yeah.
00:23:39
Speaker
So in the law, those laws are great, you know, but then when they start like, uh, getting into that gray area or that conflict of interests where now they're like, you know what? No, stay home, take the injection. I'm not, and I'm not an anti-vaxxer. Like I, I, I got the, you know, all three, whatever. I'm like, whatever, let's just move on with this. Wasn't there only two?
00:24:02
Speaker
Well, it's like there's two and then the booster like, you know, whatever. But then after like the other boosters, I'm like, I'm fucking was like, I'm we're done at this point. Right. But like at the end of the day, like when they when they have a conflict of interest to like, you know, they're like, OK, now we want you to spin around and say the government rules like, OK, you guys are abusing your power. Right. This is clearly abuse of power. Right.
00:24:29
Speaker
You do want the government. You don't want them, but you don't want them super, you know, you know, I don't know, controlling all that stuff. Yeah, for sure. You don't want them to protect, but you don't want that like conflict of interest. You know what I mean? For sure. For sure. Yeah. You don't want them coming into your house and telling you, well, you can't put up this wall. You can't, you can't move your couch over there. You can't, you need a permit to do this. You can't park your car in the driveway without plates. You have to cover it. You can't, uh,
00:24:58
Speaker
There's a can't for like everything you can think of. And it's the way they control you, man, the way they have that control. It's just, it's mind boggling when you see some things that you cannot do without asking, you know, the big chief up top, you know, if you're allowed to or not.
00:25:17
Speaker
And if they say you can't, you can't, man. You're out of luck, right? So it's pretty unfortunate. Yeah. The hierarchy of capitalism and government. And so big, big out of the box question, like,
00:25:35
Speaker
without government and without capitalism okay i'm not saying communism people as soon as you say without capitalism they think communism right but let's just say without money okay and without a government um what would we only really just need uh police laws and ambulance and you know fire and could we could we maintain it without that level of
00:26:05
Speaker
you know, you still have laws and people that uphold the laws and people that, you know, will, but like, are you, are you like saying that? Can we have, can we live without a nation state? Yeah. And it's in its entirety, the way we see a nation state as it is. I don't know what a nation state is. Maybe you can like a country, a country with laws and like a nation.
00:26:29
Speaker
Yeah, like like police and government. Yeah. Can it exist without the government part? Yes. Yes, it can. It's very simple. Right. You collectively get a group of people. Yeah. You institute kind of a declaration or some kind of decree. Yeah. And you appoint your your buddy, the sheriff. Yeah. And you get yourself a doctor. You create a flag. You plant it there.
00:26:58
Speaker
get neighborhood watch just to make sure. But as a whole, theoretically, everybody's going to be cool because you know everybody. And that's your community, right? So if you have all these little, sounds like I'm describing like little tribes. Or like states. Becoming tribal. You know, like all the different states.
00:27:18
Speaker
Yeah, so yeah state law, you know, and then they got federated at a certain point where they're like the United States because they probably were all these little different countries, right? They had their own law. The like the harmonizing across or the government level of like, yeah, like you probably don't. I don't know. It just it's it's a little too much. But like and the money thing, right, like abolishing money, like how do we progress as a society without
00:27:48
Speaker
money, right? Like when people, okay, let's say, okay, very simple thought. You need, you want a new iPhone. Okay. So it's, let's say the best one right now is two grand. You're going to pay it upfront. Now, if money didn't exist,
00:28:07
Speaker
how can Apple make that product? Because people are slaves until they're 65, until they retire. This is the problem. I know we're getting off track from censorship.
00:28:27
Speaker
Um, but it does, it actually, it's not too off track. If you think about it, censorship like is born from, it's getting more born from government, right? Right. Um, because if, like you said, if you look back in the day, there's these whistleblowers that were shut down for, um, you know, these, you know, rebel free radicalists or whatever that will say what's really going on in the government. And they were censored, you know, like it's all about like,
00:28:56
Speaker
whistleblowers and censors going back and forth. But the money part, I'm like, how do you abolish that? Well, maybe you don't have to abolish it. Maybe it's fine because I think people for some reason love it, which is just crazy to think about it. If I built my own house and then
00:29:21
Speaker
I mean, you probably have to go back to more, you know, granted civilization will probably not advance as fast, right? Because there's no like drive, right? Let's go, right? Like we need that. Like I want to achieve, like what do you want to achieve? Everything that we have is perfect right now. And like, but maybe that's just because we're,
00:29:43
Speaker
maybe not thinking about it right. I believe if there was a mature enough society as a whole, globally, probably 70% of the world is mature enough to not hurt someone, which is scary to think about that 30%. But
00:30:05
Speaker
I don't know, like, could you wake up every day and be like, I'm going to make some positive impact in the world. Right. And people are still kind of doing what they're doing. Like, right. Right. I mean, we don't it's just how we're conditioned to be. Right. We don't need to wake up and chase, you know, the almighty dollar. Yeah. Right. We can. I mean, we do need to. It's just the way society is today. Right. There was a time there was a time I think during like
00:30:35
Speaker
Everything up up until the turn of the century, I think the unemployment rate was at 0% because number one, they didn't keep records. But number two, people didn't have to join the workforce at that time. There was no workforce at that time. You got up, you fished, you hunted, you survived, you cooked your meal, you enjoyed that time with your family. You kicked around a couple of coconuts and you went to bed.
00:31:01
Speaker
Like that was your life. It was, it was just living day to day and enjoying every moment with all the people around you. Now it's different. Now it's a more like slave oriented approach where you go to work and you slave for money just to spend that money and give it back to whoever, to somebody else. Basically, you know, you don't keep it nor do you want to keep it. It's just paper, right? Yeah. You exchange it for goods.
00:31:27
Speaker
But there was a time where you didn't have to do that, right? You would enjoy every moment with your family. Um, but then again, you know, a lot of diseases and stuff back then, so you'd probably die. But those 30 years you were alive, man, you enjoy those 30 years. They were the best, like probably like the most delicious years ever. Yeah. You didn't spend like half or like a half of your 24 hour day at work. And then the other half trying to like deal with everything else. Right. Right. Literally lived your life.
00:31:57
Speaker
Yes. For yourself and your family. But the new iPhone, it's just so nice. That's what they want you to think. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying, right? I'm like, no, I'm set. Let's say you got whatever in the bank, you're looking at your account and you're like, yeah, man, I'm just going to continually pay down the mortgage, whatever, and then you're free. You still got utilities, whatever it is.
00:32:23
Speaker
and then just don't go anywhere. Cause as soon as you leave with your car, which is the magic cost machine that brings you from each place to spend more, right? Like, you know, when you're shopping and stuff, obviously, if you're going somewhere, then you're still paying for the gas. But like, is it just with the allure of the new and you're like, oh my God, I, because the companies are probably thinking, man,
00:32:52
Speaker
We got them good with that one, but you know, we got to just bring the hammer next time. Be like, you know what? I know you got that. You wanted that, but this one, this one's the one, right? Yeah. And then you're like, God, I need that. Like, I don't know, Tesla model seven, whatever. Right. I'm like, no, like, um, it's scary to think and like,
00:33:17
Speaker
Like I feel bad for the kids growing up in this world. Like, like, they're like, Hey, by the way, yeah, like a school. Yeah. Well, whatever. And then, and then, yeah, just gotta work. And then like, but like, um, every time you spend, you're, you'll kind of have to slave more for the dollar, right? Yeah. So if you don't spend, so all these companies are trying to allure you with this like, um, glamor of the new, so they will take your, like, what, and then you'll have to work more.
00:33:47
Speaker
right so like is the option just to be happy with what you have i think yes i think it's just as simple as that for sure it is it's just as simple as that you got it right but uh
00:34:00
Speaker
Good luck with that, man. Good luck with that because the way we are, we see that new shiny iPhone, not that I have an iPhone, but I get the idea of it. You see that new shiny iPhone and you're like, that makes your, you just feel giddy inside, right? It's like, man, brand new phone. It's all these new features, right? But it's that conditioning, man. How are you going to get away from it now? How can you, we're consumers,
00:34:25
Speaker
And I feel like the eighties eighties kids are like the worst consumers ever, man. Yeah, I agree. The consumerism is maybe the crux of the problem. Yep. Consuming as in eating, as in like, I will, I will take that. I will buy that. I will get that. Yeah, it's bad. And you see people tattooing other people's IPs on them, intellectual property.
00:34:54
Speaker
and just going like crazy over somebody else's, you know, creative IP. And I feel like that is the pinnacle of consumer stupidity, right? Oh yeah, like NFTs. Like when you're like, yeah, I drew a picture of a duck, $2 million for my duck. It's like a He-Man tattoo. Like, no, man. You're going to get sued for your tattoo. People are insane.
00:35:24
Speaker
Yeah, it's just not not very good, man. It's not very good. We need to break from that mentality, break away from that and drop the whole consumerist, you know, feelings because ultimately it's just their feelings. Right. And you feel satisfied when you when you do that and not caring.
00:35:43
Speaker
about the hours, you're going to have to slave away to pay that shit off, right? Yes. And then you feel super good when you get something new and then immediately it's gone because that's greed or dopamine. When you seek like the more you get, the more you want like greed and dopamine, I feel like are very linked in intrinsically intrinsically.
00:36:07
Speaker
there was a doctor that was on it's like YouTube and he was just talking about how when it could have been like Jordan Peterson or something like that or like something like it could I think it was like it wasn't a one-off right and he was saying like oh in like west in the west on the western hemisphere you know like this part of the world you know Canada, US, Mexico that quadrant
00:36:36
Speaker
they'll prescribe you like selexa, ciprolex, whatever it is for depression in the winter, whatever. And then when they were interviewing, it was like a some some like area in Africa, they were interviewing a doctor and he was saying that, oh, we have antidepressants. We tell the
00:37:02
Speaker
the patients to go and do a bunch of kind things for others. And it completely alleviates their concerns. And they don't have that. They don't need that. And we don't either. Even the non-essential medicine industry, just for a
00:37:24
Speaker
to get you hooked on some SSRI of like, oh, it's winter, so pop your Ciprilix, instead of take vitamin D and go help a bum across the street. Even the word bum is not very nice, but help someone across the street, help a grandma across the street.
00:37:46
Speaker
It's like, okay, there's your Ciprolex, which you have to like buy for whatever. So then you need insurance. So you have to work to get that free insurance from the employer and then to the capitalist milk machine. It's funny because people think it's a quick fix, but
00:38:03
Speaker
Whatever that you just pointed out, it's not a quick fix. You're you're you're better off helping that person across the street. That is a quick fix. Yeah. The the amount you have to work and what you have to give up for that that medication is it's not. Yeah, for sure. And with those ones like SSRIs, the longer you're on it, the harder it is to get off. Like I it was like I was like probably like eight years ago. Like I was like out of nowhere getting like
00:38:32
Speaker
like sad around the winter. And then I would just be like driving. I'd be like, I like really hate myself, but it wasn't my thought. Like it didn't come from, um,
00:38:42
Speaker
I didn't think it. It just happened. Like it just kind of like hit me. I was like, that's weird. So I talked to my doctor and then I got a prescription for Ciprolex or whatever it is. I can't forget which one. And it was for a year on it, right? And then I was like, I talked to my family doctor. I'm like, Hey, like I feel like I don't need this stuff anymore. I've been doing my research. I just want to like, you know, replace it with more sunlight, more exercise and a better like, uh,
00:39:12
Speaker
diet and nutrition and like, you know, all that stuff. And she's like, try it, you know, and I think the first time I got almost all the way through the year, right, without being, I think I cold turkeyed it like a dimwit. Then I had to
00:39:28
Speaker
essentially go back on it for the next winter. So that's now two years, like one year full. And the next year was only the winter. And then after that, it's been fine ever since, like completely, you know, like natty, like medication free for like depression and all that stuff. Like those things are like detrimental for you.
00:39:56
Speaker
It just breaks my heart. I know when we talked with Paulina about parents flicking a Mentos to their kids, which is a melatonin, which is an exogenous hormone that will completely screw them up. It's just crazy to think that
00:40:17
Speaker
people think that the fix is a pill when they're like, if you think about like, go back to when we existed, like, you know, when we're cave people and we're out in the sun hunting and gathering, like we're so against our own nature. Like what we're doing, like you're sitting there, dude, you should be like running from like sprinting from a friggin elephant about to like,
00:40:39
Speaker
sit on you or something or running towards it and take it out. Take it out. Yeah. To jump on his back like a rise in zero dawn or whatever. Yeah, man. Just like take it for a ride. Yeah. We should be in those in those predicaments because that's that's our nature as human beings.
00:40:57
Speaker
So yeah, we're so far from that man. If I see an elephant, I won't even know what an elephant looks like. Yeah. How do I know what an elephant looks like? I haven't seen one. I know they kind of look like the back of cars because they have a trunk. That's true. Yes.
00:41:15
Speaker
Look at the dad jokes all day ladies and gents. Like as soon as my, my first dad joke was born when my kids were born. Like I said that the last podcast. Yeah. Oh yeah. I'm like a, I'm like a broken. You're running joke. It's a running joke. Um, or it's like, I want to make a tick talk about, uh, like just weird like sentences where it's like, okay,
00:41:40
Speaker
Uh, number one, I'm not going to repeat this. I'm not going to repeat this. And that was one. And it'll be number two. And it was like a whole chain of these like weird things where like they're inherently flawed from exist, like just the way that they're born, but they're different. They're not like that first one over and over. But yeah, it's, it's, it kind of messed up like a little bit of a broken record, but, um, like.
00:42:04
Speaker
again, the capitalism, the censorship, the, I guess, the slavery light, which is like a light version where you can be outside and you can see, you can buy things, but it's really like a prison. Yeah. Especially like the housing industry, right? So, like, have a
00:42:29
Speaker
brother-in-law, sister-in-law. They're like, out of university, right? Let's go. Where are they going to live? It is brutal, right? It's like a million for a box. You know what I mean? You got to go. It's like a refrigerator-sized box. It is deliberately
00:42:48
Speaker
like imprisonment from the government. It's basically like, oh, well, you know what? You got to live somewhere, don't you? Right? So how about this house is pretty good. It's about the size of a small Buick, like a tiny car. And you have to work every day until you die. Good deal. Yeah. Like the mortgages, but it's clearly apparent that this is not, this is not okay.
00:43:18
Speaker
Yeah, the thing with that is I bought like I used to live in an apartment in a very small apartment and
00:43:28
Speaker
you kind of work your way up, but you can't, there are times you can't really be picky and choosy. Yes. So if you do want to afford a bigger or a house, you have to, like I did move away from a centralized, you know, location from the city where I used to live. I had no choice. I cannot afford living to live in the city. I had to move out of the city, right? So you have to make concessions if you do want certain things. And that goes with everything in life, right?
00:43:57
Speaker
You know, you want something, you have to sacrifice something for it. That's just the way I look at it, but everybody has different experiences, right? But yeah, you have to sacrifice if you want. Yes, mortgages are expensive, but if you go into the city, you're going to be paying. You can't even afford to live in the city. But further out you go, the cheaper a house is and the more you get. Right. So maybe this is just part of the government plan to have people not be so centralized and relocate.
00:44:26
Speaker
Because I know that when they bring a lot of people from overseas here, they don't ship them to Ontario. They have programs. The way they're saying it's like, God, they just come into containers. When they get offers, they don't get offers to come to Ontario. They get offers to come to different provinces in Canada, the less populated provinces.
00:44:51
Speaker
So that's how the government approaches that. And as citizens, maybe we should approach it the same way if we do want something. Because I know that in Calgary, for example, Edmonton houses are cheap, right? Maybe half the price of what we pay here. So you may have to sacrifice for that, right?
00:45:13
Speaker
Yeah. The whole moving thing is awful because I love everyone I'm close to. It's almost like we should have a drone-like platform that could be repositioned with our friends because I don't want to not be in walking distance. I know, man. I know.
00:45:35
Speaker
So it's definitely tough, but you're right, though, about the like all of it, but especially about the choosiness, like there's you can't be choosy with a new like if you're like starting out, finishing, you know, university, you're like, OK, whatever, you just got to get in, right?
00:45:53
Speaker
like get some condo, whatever, like you're going to pay whatever, just get approved for whatever, go to whatever loan shark. Yeah, just get it. Not, not super bad loan, like break your legs loan shark, but like a, a mortgage like financial institution you've never heard of or go to a mortgage broker. Yeah.
00:46:10
Speaker
and then essentially you're in and then two years sell it you'll make 100 or 200k whatever it is and then keep doing that until you have a reasonably comfortable size there's no like um i heard i've never really seen it but like this
00:46:29
Speaker
thing of millennials pop out of university and they're like, where's my 100K and my 3,000 square foot house with my Tesla? I'm like, that's not how life works, right? I wish it was. I wish too, man. It's just too ridiculous to- 3,000 square feet. That's like a dream.
00:46:51
Speaker
Yeah, this is pretty much an MMO where you're like, we're playing like World of Warcraft or like Final Fantasy, like whatever the slowest one was, I think 11. And you're like, I remember Final Fantasy 11 just to be able to get like a shirt I wanted for my red mage. I would literally have to kill like probably like 200 bees. And every like, every eight would drop a beehive chip.
00:47:18
Speaker
Now I had to get a stack of 12. I would literally, it would take weeks of my life getting these beehive chip stacks just so I could get a shirt, right? No, no, I don't. Like it was just some garb, you know, like, like those prehistoric dating terms.
00:47:39
Speaker
You're like, hey, I really like your trousers. Oh, I really like your blouse. Oh, did you see his garb? It's very, very nice garb. Yeah. You know, like those words, but I don't know, man, like maybe looking at Final Fantasy 11.
00:47:56
Speaker
You know, life ain't so bad. Like, I don't have to go. Well, actually, probably my character is ripped, probably. Dude, muscling is fun for you. How was that game? Did you like that game? I played it. Yes, I loved it. What was your what were your two classic? Eleven? Yeah, man. No way. Like the online one. Yeah. I knew. I love that game. Sorry. What was your question? Because what was your your doctor right now?
00:48:24
Speaker
What were your character classes? You had Black Mage, but was it like Black Mage, Red Mage, Black Mage combo? I had Red Mage. Didn't you do like a combo? Because you could do half and half, right? Yeah, half and half. I did. Yeah, I did like white and black, which is red, right? Yeah. And then I like I kind of went to more like probably, I don't know, 55% white, and then 45. That was white and black.
00:48:49
Speaker
Dude, I used to magic burst. Remember magic burst where you like hit that spell rate at that one moment and it does like a crit.
00:48:56
Speaker
Oh man. Do you remember just waiting for epic whatever the mobs to appear? And you had to wait for the seventh moon? Crazy. Fuck you. So you have the seventh moon, right? The moon that's waxing and waning gibbous. That was moon phases and stuff. I'm literally at auction houses, dude. Yeah. And I'm begging people for Gil.
00:49:22
Speaker
I'm like, you know what? I'm like, no wonder people just panhandle, you know, like probably people are like, when they get into this MMO and they think it's real life, but like they're like heads, you know, they're in some machine right now or just like playing the game. They're like, no wonder people panhandle like at the auction house.
00:49:41
Speaker
I spent I spent weeks, maybe months trying to get this one cloak. It was called a vermilion cloak. It was like a red cloak. That's like one one MP. Did was it the V cloak? It was like one MP per like minute. You'd get back. It's like there was a refresh on it. Dude, like it might not be if it was read like I had the full red mage like holding. I think vermilion cloak was like that rings belt. Dude, I'm going to like after this, like maybe we'll like do a like a like a.
00:50:09
Speaker
like a seductive private like uh like members only channel after this where i'm gonna log into my uh final fantasy 11 account dude actually dude i wait is that game still still up man what were you human or were you uh i was like a little like that little like yeah sandoria the little the little like gnomes or whatever right little yodas yeah
00:50:33
Speaker
But yeah, like I was born in Bastok. Where were you born? I'm from Bastok too, man. Oh man. I probably asked you for Gil. Dude, we used to like have those competitions and we always come last. They used to call it last stock because we always like coming last. That's not even a joke. That's for real. That's true. I think because I think that people that were in Bastok that that wasn't the place to go.
00:50:59
Speaker
like better startings like but you can't really actually know those little guys were not from sandoria sandoria were the elves little guys were from some other place but uh the elf place i think that was sandoria that was the place to be man everybody was just there right like tell me you're not just thinking about let's let's start playing again now that we both play that game is brutal man it will it will suck your life dry you have kids
00:51:25
Speaker
Uh, you need to put them up for adoption. You give your kids away. You can't have a wife. You can't have nice things. You can't work. It was bad. Yeah. You can't, you can't work and play that game, man. I don't know if they changed it, but man, the miles would just chase you for hours. They would not stop. Like, yeah. They hit so far away. They're like over here and it's like, and then you're like over here and I'm like, what the hell? How did that?
00:51:49
Speaker
the latency or just, I'm not sure if it was the latency or the wide like attack box that things had, but do you remember when you're like waiting for like a party and like as soon as you try to pull a mob in like, what was that desert area that you wanted to get to that
00:52:09
Speaker
to get like the next kind of levels. I forget, but then you're in a party in that desert area and you're trying to pull these like lizard things. And then you needed a tank. You needed like buffs. You needed like a white mage, which I was, I was predominantly the white mage role. I would say like that is the fluffer of the party. Do you know what I mean? Literally like you go around, you feel better now. You feel better now. You feel like it's like the literal like final fancy fluffer, you know, like
00:52:39
Speaker
But anyhow, dude, I'm hoping that when I log back into my account after this call, my character is still there because I put in like, you know when you can say it's slash play time or something? It was something ridiculous like 10 months or something, but it's months, but it wasn't months. I think it was probably like eight weeks or whatever it was, but they take the weeks as 24 hours, right? So like a week would be 24 hours times seven.
00:53:08
Speaker
So like just to have eight weeks, think about the time. Um, I think I, I think I broke up with my girlfriend at the time. I'm like, sorry, girl. This is a FF11 only guy. Yeah. I'm like, I'm literally like trying to like, how long was the last time you played? Because I think they, I don't know if they keep characters this long, right? I hope so. Be nice, man. I'd hop on that guy, dude. I would love to show you my, um,
00:53:34
Speaker
I'm going to put a pause here deliberately. I'd like to show you my full red mage thing. It took me forever to get that whole set. It's probably exactly what you're saying, the vermilion cloak or whatever.
00:53:51
Speaker
I got, dude, I remember once I got the hat, that was like the pizza-shaped, dude, just say triangle, the triangle-shaped hat with the feather, and it was red. I was like, that was like, it was down too, like covering the face. It's like your super swag. You don't want to look people in the eye, but you're a red mage. Dude, my Xbox handle is like red mage. Like, dude, that's like, I played a frick out of
00:54:19
Speaker
Maybe it's like Red Mage is a way of saying you're pretty much bipolar. You know what I mean? Like, what kind of mage would you like to be? Can't decide. Yeah. Red was good though. But anyways, yeah, man, we'll have a look and see. For sure. On FF11. Let's play.
00:54:40
Speaker
Yeah, let's play. Yeah, let's go. Yeah, so I don't know did wrapping up the censorship stuff. It's tough. I don't think we're going to get there. Like, well, it's not that I think we all know, like as a species, we're not going to get there anytime soon for where we want to be.
00:54:58
Speaker
I think that people are, nobody likes this, okay? Nobody likes the world, the certain conditions that we have, okay? No one wakes up every day, oh God, I'm glad to like do whatever that CEO wants because, you know, he pays for my kids to eat. Like nobody wants to do that stuff, right? It just hasn't come to a significant enough head
00:55:24
Speaker
for people to action, right? And what would that action look like? I don't know. I just hope it's like full of kindness, like no pitchforks, no like torches. Of course. You know, that would be, I would rather be a capitalist slave than be a hate mob, right? Absolutely, yeah. Like so, what does Jesus say? Like turn the other cheek? Or was that like pretty much every
00:55:50
Speaker
every big, um, cool dude from religion. I think he specifically said that. Yeah. Okay. So he gets, uh, his words gets credit for that. That's his quote. Um, but there may have been some other people who said similar things, but yeah, he's right for sure, man. Pitchforks is not a good, uh, unless you're hunting down Frankenstein, but even then, right? He didn't deserve,
00:56:15
Speaker
I completely agree. Another thing that would probably be canceled by censorship is if Frankenstein came out now. No, no, no. Free Frankenstein, that's not okay. And people are like, hey, it's a movie. And they're like,
00:56:31
Speaker
They're like, oh, did you just say it's a movie? It's real to me. I identify with the movie being real. I'm like, okay, you know what? At the end of the day, hate is bad in any shape or form, even for me saying that, oh, you shouldn't behave like that, right? That's almost borderline, not borderline, it is almost like
00:56:54
Speaker
not nice, but at the end of the day, let's say someone is actually attacking someone. You don't want to say, oh, I don't want to tell him to stop because he has full creative expression with his, you know what I mean? There's a line and that line- At some point you have to step in. Yeah.
00:57:13
Speaker
Gray, it's very black and white. I find that you've crossed the line at that point, and that's not kind or nice. And you have to ask, are people's intentions good? Well, yeah, he said that or she said that, but was it out of... Was she coming from a place of trying to help? Or sometimes... That's why judges and stuff exist.
00:57:37
Speaker
They look at the like, okay, what was the intent here? Like, you know what I mean? Like the intent is almost more important than the, well, I mean, a crime, a crime, but like, you can't like, oh, he died, but the intent was to help him. He doesn't work like that, right? But I don't know, we'll get there. It's tough, right? I don't know, like none of us like this and we'll get there, but.
00:58:03
Speaker
Yep. Anything else to add here before we run out? I think we've covered pretty much all that we can related to this topic. Yeah.
00:58:16
Speaker
It's just scratching the surface again because, again, these are things that humanity is ruminating on and will not solve with a light switch solution. It's going to take a whole bunch of pain and really, really coming to a head.
00:58:34
Speaker
Uh, like a pimple, you know, and very satisfying once you pop like the government zip or whatever it is. Right. And then you just goes to like, just chill. You're like, yeah, I'm happy it's out or as long as it, you know, whatever, but we'll get there. We'll get there. Thanks everyone for tuning into the code play culture podcast. Uh, Logan and Ruby, I'll see you next time. See you really. Goodbye.