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Episode 45: Hog Wild 1996
40 Plays3 years ago
Happy 4th! Our new series begins - the rumble of motorcycles fills the air as Sturgis, South Dakota, goes Hog Wild! WCW and the newly formed nWo clash as Hogan fights the Giant to try to claim the Big Gold Belt for the nWo, while Kevin Nash and Scott Hall try to take down WCW stalwarts Sting and Lex Luger. Also: Is it really a good idea to enter a match with so much shoulder tape you look like a yet...I mean, a mummy? Just what the heck is Kevin Nash supposed to do with that enormous cake? And WCW decides to showcase the durability of Honda motorcycles. For all this and more...Let's Go to the Ring!
Music by Michael Gary Brewer at https://www.instantmusicnow.com/
Follow us on Twitter at https://twitter.com/letsgo2thering , or on Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/LetsGo2theRing/
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Transcript
00:00:01
Speaker
Oh, it's the pitbull guy. What's the name? Oh, shoot. I got it. Oh, my God.
Introduction to 'Let's Go to the Ring'
00:00:36
Speaker
Hello everyone, and welcome to Let's Go to the Ring, where we take a look at the good old days, and not so good old days, of World Championship Wrestling Series by Series. I'm your host, Bob Moore, and the following announcement has been paid for by the Prigeon World Order. Alec Prigeon is still my co-host. The preceding announcement has been paid for by the Prigeon World Order. Money well spent. Uh, he paid me about 75 cents, that's all it's worth. Yeah.
00:01:05
Speaker
How's it going tonight, Al? Good. How's it going with you? Going all right. We are starting. What is this now? Our our fifth series of this? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Starrcade, Slamboree, Wrestle War, Spring Stampede and now this. Right. So, wow. That feels like a lot. It does. Yeah.
Hog Wild 1996 Overview and Significance
00:01:24
Speaker
And what a series it is, as tonight we are taking a look at Hog Wild 1996. Ain't no easy riders here. Now, I get that's a reference to the movie, but it more makes it sound like everyone on the show had a difficult time riding a motorcycle.
00:01:40
Speaker
Right. It's also a weird bird on a famous motorcycle movie. Yeah, yeah. It's like, you like motorcycle movies? Well, screw you. Wrestling's better. Yeah, it's a weird thing for a show that's all about motorcycle enthusiasm, right? Yeah, exactly. In many ways, it's the opposite of what you wanted for a subtitle on this one. Yeah, right.
00:01:58
Speaker
Subtitles aside, Hogwild 1996 was held on Saturday, August 10th, 1996, had the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally in Sturgis, South Dakota, in front of 5,000 fans. Of which, zero paid, as this thing was just kinda out in the open in the middle of the rally.
00:02:16
Speaker
The Sturgis Motorcycle Rally is an annual event in August, first held in 1938. These days, it lasts for 10 days. Now, it did take a break for World War II, but infamously, it did not take a break during the COVID-19 pandemic, and cases across the country were linked to attendance at the rally or contact with its attendees. WCW's hog wild and road wild paper views, of course, occur well, well before all of that. Yes, correct.
00:02:47
Speaker
Hogwild 1996 earned 155,000 pay-per-view buys, so at least WCW made some money that way. That is pretty solidly in the middle of the pack for 1996.
00:02:59
Speaker
Now, the coming off storyline-wise, like the biggest show of the year. So interesting to see if they get an uptick going forward with these. Yeah, I feel like it takes a little bit for them to fully see one. I believe if I recall correctly, the Starrcade numbers for the year were pretty good. Yeah. They were in the $200,000 range. $200,000 by range, I think, which was better than their norm for a long time. But then it's not until next year that they really, really see
00:03:27
Speaker
everyone's gotta see this angle. Right, exactly. Despite it being really one of WCW's most successful angles of all time, it actually does take quite a while before it hits that you gotta see this stage.
00:03:38
Speaker
Yeah, which is funny because at the same time we're getting into Austin 316, which is viewed the same way. People think, oh, instantly Steve Austin was a huge star and yada, yada, but no, it took a while like this did as well. Yeah. Remember, I mean, Austin, Austin 316, I think actually has happened at this point. And this is just the start of the 83 weeks that WSW wins against the WWF. We're near the beginning of that period. So it's not like they anoint Steve Austin as their rising star.
00:04:08
Speaker
and immediately conquer WCW again. They've got him pretty solidly in the state where they are high on this guy, but it's still going to be about a year and a half before the WWF manages to take back over WCW. Just kind of amazing to think about. There's a lot of things in wrestling history that, one, you don't realize are as long a period as they are.
00:04:32
Speaker
And then sometimes, conversely, things that you just, thinking about it, don't realize are so close together. Right. Like, for me, it's always the Dungeon of Doom angle and the NWO that, like, this is what? Two, three months after Uncensored 1996? Yes, March, I think, yeah.
00:04:48
Speaker
So it's not long after this tremendous, hugely cartoony triple cage match of Doom with Hogan and Savage against eight guys and Hogan fighting the dungeon of Doom with all these ridiculous cartoon supervillain gimmicks and everything, and now we're in this, we are deadly serious now. But the dungeon is still here. Yes, they are. Kevin Sullivan's still hanging around talking about how he wanted to destroy Hulkamania, but Hulkamania destroyed itself.
00:05:14
Speaker
They've lost some of their more cartoony characters, but the faction's still there. Correct, yes.
WCW's Storyline Success and Wrestling History
00:05:21
Speaker
Before the actual pay-per-view tonight, we had eight matches filmed for WCW Saturday night. The Public Enemy beat Ruff and Ready. Conan beat Chavo Guerrero Jr. The Nasty Boys beat High Voltage, but at least Rage didn't have to take a Steiner screwdriver this time. It's a bless.
00:05:42
Speaker
Alex Wright beat Earl Robert Eaton in 30 seconds. Ow. The Dungeon of Doom, that's specifically Barbarian Meng and the Taskmaster, beat Jim Powers, Joe Gomez, and Mark Starr. If you don't know some of those names, I don't blame you. Yes. David Taylor beat Mr. JL. Jerry Lynn making another appearance. He's only actually appeared on camera, I think, in the AWAs for us so far, right? Correct, yes.
00:06:12
Speaker
Diamond Dallas Page beat the Renegade, which I would imagine at least gave Renegade one of his best matches if he studied the binders in detail. And Arne Anderson beat Hugh Morris in 40 seconds. Double ouch. Yeah. At least it wasn't the way around. That would have been worse. I would wager any individual wrestler's entrance took longer than the Wright versus Eaton or Anderson versus Morris matches, perhaps together. Yeah. Given the long walks of the ring on this show, absolutely. Yeah.
00:06:43
Speaker
But what about the actual pay-per-view? Well, rev up your engine, Al. Let's ride to the ring. Less than an hour from an icon of democracy, and the geographic center of these United States, through the beautiful black hills of South Dakota, a small town of 6,500 people lies in wait. Since 1938, enthusiasts have gathered here for something more than just riding a machine between your legs.
00:07:13
Speaker
It is known simply as Sturgis, the motorcycle rally of the world. A quarter of a million bikers are jammed into this small town for racing, festivities, and the biggest biker party on the planet. New to the mix this year, World Championship Wrestling arrives, proving that this annual event will truly be hog wild.
00:07:36
Speaker
Our opening video package provides sweeping shots of the Sturgis area, nearby Mount Rushmore, and the Motorcycle Rally, accompanied by piano and guitar music that sounds kind of like it belongs in the Gabriel Knight series. Jimmy Hart is pretty infamous for making sound-alike songs. See DDP's Not Nirvana song. There's a whole bunch of those. This one you hear in this video package and then later in another like a mantra as I showed towards the end of the show.
00:08:06
Speaker
It's a really, really close sound-alike to Right Now by Van Halen. Yeah. Pretty shameless. Makes you want some Crystal Pepsi. It really does, yeah. It doesn't make me want Crystal Pepsi because I hated that stuff. Some of the shots of rally attendees are interesting. Like the lady dressed in, I don't know what you'd call it, a bondage bikini. Yeah. It closes with shots of some of the WSW performers themselves arriving by motorcycle.
00:08:35
Speaker
I do like I didn't that and the other Montage Eric Bischoff's in there. Yeah. He sticks himself in the middle. Apparently this entire show may be happening just because he loves Harley's. So it is. But it's like to the start of the W.C.W. Andrew Bischoff. I agree to an extent just because he's actually not on the actual show. That is that is part of it. Yeah. Yeah. Where if he was like one of the announcers or doing something publicly in the actual show, then maybe you wouldn't mind him being highlighted in there, too. Mm hmm. Yeah. But anyway, he had fun. Sure.
00:09:04
Speaker
The sound of a motorcycle engine starting up heralds the Hog Wild logo, accompanied by what sounds like the start of that same piano theme, which fades out quite abruptly as host Tony Schiavone welcomes us to the show. I kind of wonder if the logo was originally meant to be at the beginning of the video package, but then someone thought it would look better at the end and they just had time for a quick cut and paste job rather than a full video reproduction.
00:09:27
Speaker
It's like a Christopher Nolan thing where he puts the title 20 minutes into the movie. Right. But because it's like when the show starts, the song is already midway and it like fades in. Right. And then the song finishes and then starts up. So you think they would chop it off from the beginning. I think they have that at the beginning and then decide, no, let's fade in with the mountain shot. But they did that too late for them to redo the video package entirely. OK, it's very possible.
00:09:54
Speaker
I really, really, really want this arena to be in the wrestling video games. Right? Yeah. The ring is on a raised platform above the dirt ground, so it's put up extra high. It makes it quite terrifying to watch whenever someone ends up fighting outside, but man, it would let you pull off some great crazy spots in the games.
00:10:13
Speaker
I do wonder why it's so elevated. Is it just like some people in the further back can see it, you think? Maybe because in this case, they don't have raised seating. If you're in an actual arena normally, you have like bleacher seats. Right. But there's an incline of some sort. So yeah, if you're further back, you can still see then. But if you're in this crowd, unless you're one of the people standing on the cars in the background or something,
00:10:35
Speaker
If you're a couple rows back, all you can see is biker if they don't raise the ring. So I would suspect that's why that they want to make sure that folks back in the crowd a little bit would get the chance to see. So good on them for that. I suppose so, yeah. Sturgis is alive with the sound of Harley's, Tony proclaims. Now that would be an interesting change to the sound of music.
00:10:59
Speaker
We already got lots of helicopter shots in this. They will be all through the night. I cannot imagine that those were cheap. No. At least now you can do it with drones. It is so much cheaper. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Nowadays, you could get this for quite a bit cheaper. Yeah. A couple hundred bucks pay a guy to fly his drone around for you. Yeah. Yeah. But this one, no, that had to be mondo expensive. Yeah.
00:11:21
Speaker
Tony and his co-host, Bobby the Brain Heenan, and the American Dream Dusty Rhodes, yes, are dressed in their own versions of biker gear. For a heat in, that means basically dressing in normal clothes, but in black. For Tony, it's a biker hat and denim vest over utterly normal clothing. And for Dusty, for some reason, it means a biker hat, denim vest, and short shorts. Yes. What possessed him to do those instead of jeans? I don't know. Must just be warm out.
00:11:53
Speaker
Motorcycles revved their engines all over the place as Tony, Dusty, and Hienan discuss the main event. Hulk Hogan versus the Giant for the Giants WCW World Heavyweight Championship. Dusty builds up Hogan's long history of big pay-per-view matches and says the Giant has to overcome that, but he also criticizes Hogan as a traitor to WCW. Hienan says he's got a gut feeling that the Giant is in big trouble.
00:12:20
Speaker
Tony is shocked by that, but Hienan says that's because of the NWO. Tony sells this as the most important title match in wrestling history. He goes on building up other matches as Dusty suddenly grins, grabs his arm, and shows the camera Tony's temporary tattoo. Tony somehow manages to keep it together, expertly using that to bring up a lot of strange things you've never seen before on a pay-per-view. Good on you, Tony.
00:12:46
Speaker
Just those shorts, those tiny, tiny shorts. He must have thought they weren't ever going to actually show him. Yeah, maybe. But, oh my gosh. He's like, oh, we're setting up? Oh. Yep.
00:13:02
Speaker
Our first match is Ultimo Dragon called The Ultimate Dragon and accompanied by Sonny Ono versus Ray Mysterio Jr. from Mysterio's WCW Cruiserweight Championship. The referee for this one is Nick Patrick and Mike Tenay joins the commentary team for this match.
00:13:21
Speaker
Dragon has been busy lately. He's been taking part in the Super J Cup tournament. Super J Crown tournament, sorry. Most notably, he makes it to the finals where he actually loses to the Great Sasuke. He would manage to win the title back, obviously, before we see him next.
00:13:38
Speaker
at Starrcade with the enormous number of belts. Yes. Literally too many belts for him to carry out on his own. Yes. Final election note for us, given the order he watched these shows in, the guy he beats in semi-finals is El Samurai. Okay. You may recall from collision in Korea. Right. Yes. Was he the one that got kicked in the balls really, really hard? Yes. Yeah.
00:14:02
Speaker
I'm sure you've had a much better career than that, Mr. Samurai. That is sadly what I remember you most for at the moment. Dragon has his green outfit tonight. It is extremely shiny. It is. Sunny Ono is wearing biker gear, but thankfully has not followed Dusty's choices.
00:14:23
Speaker
Tony welcomes Mike Tenet to the commentary team for the match. Tony criticizes Hienan's outfit, particularly his lack of a tattoo. But Hienan asks if Tony's going to show that tattoo to his wife and implies that there's another that Tony can't show to anyone. Exactly, Dusty says. A rare Dusty and Hienan team up. Brave and the bold. Which one's the brave and which one's the bold? I think Dusty's both of them, actually. I mean, for wearing those shorts, he's got to be the brave. That's true, that's true.
00:14:53
Speaker
Mysterio has an awesome, awesome outfit tonight. Speaking of comic books, it's themed after Spider-Man. It is, yes. It is a very, very cool design in its own right, too. This is one of the many times over his career that Rey has done some superhero themed outfit, and they're usually amazing. He keeps it rather less copyright infringing than Arachna Man, too. Yes.
00:15:17
Speaker
Tony goes over the famous Mysterio dart throw spot and raise unmasking by the EMTs. Hienan interjects that the EMTs shared that Mysterio was permanently ugly or something like that. It's hard to hear him over the crowd in Mysterio's theme. Tony announces that this is the end of WCW Saturday night, and the only way to see the rest is on pay-per-view. I don't know that I've ever heard that on a show before, but normally they're not perfectly aligned with one of WCW's normal TV nights.
00:15:44
Speaker
Yeah, it's really weird because yeah, the version we have, they put it all together just like cuts in there. Yeah, yeah, they kind of filmed this for both basically and just chop it off for the TV show and just carry on on the pay-per-view.
00:15:59
Speaker
Tenet finally manages to get a word in edgewise about the temporary unmasking, building up how huge it was, and he says it made the news in Mexico. He wonders if Rey has fully recovered from the dark throw. He says this is Mysterio and Dragon's first match against each other, but they did tag together at Enoki's Wrestling Peace Festival earlier in 1996 in LA, which is a significantly better choice of location than North Korea.
00:16:24
Speaker
Yeah. We should find footage or anything from the later ones you did as well. Yeah. Yeah. They're obviously not as historically noteworthy given the location of the first one, but be sure to see.
00:16:36
Speaker
The two prove evenly matched and applaud each other, but Dragon and Ono later accuse Mysterio of pulling Dragon's belt. Tene notes that Mysterio is only 21 to Dragon's 29, but that Mysterio went pro at 14. Yes, that's true. There's actually a video on YouTube from a group called Pro Wrestling's History Brigade that shows what they at least say is Mysterio's first match. Oh, really? He is barely as tall as the top rope.
00:17:05
Speaker
As you can imagine, even as an adult, he is not very tall, so as a young teenager, quite a bit shorter. Mysterio uses sort of a cross-legged Boston crab and turns it into more of a death lock, but Dragon takes him down and rolls him up for two. They trade holds, and the crowd chants, USA, and it should be noted that though he did debut in Mexico, Mysterio was born in California, so they're not wrong.
00:17:31
Speaker
Dusty gets Tanay to confirm the name of Dragon's spin wheel kick to prove to Tony he was right, referencing an earlier argument. Mysterio and Dragon show off with backflips off the ropes and take each other down, then flip to their feet and face off. Mysterio encourages another USA chant, and Dragon kicks the crap out of him for it. Then, he hits Muda's handspring elbow, a running Liger Bomb, and a figure four, earning several two counts as Dusty excellently talks up what Mysterio needs to do to escape.
00:18:02
Speaker
Mysterio gets the ropes, and Dragon waits until four to break. Mysterio rolls out to recover, and Ono tries to sneak over to him, but Patrick is on the ball, so Ono backs off. If anyone's gonna stop cheating, it's Nick Patrick. Definitely, definitely. Uh-huh. Entirely trustworthy. Yes. Back in, Dragon hits a spitting torture rack backbreaker, and locks Mysterio in the Rita Romero special, which Hienan calls the Caesar Romero special. What a joker.
00:18:31
Speaker
I get it. Mysterio slips free and lands on top for a couple of two counts. Dodges a handspring elbow and charges. Dragon sends him up and over the turnbuckle, but Mysterio springboards back in with a dropkick to monster cheers. Dragon retreats outside, but Mysterio baseball slides to knock him off the race platform, then dives all the way from the ring to the ground to nail Dragon in a scary spot. That WCW's camera crew mostly misses.
00:19:01
Speaker
Naturally. Dusty says, with a move like that, if you do miss, you might miss for good. Yeah? Good line. Back in, Mysterio Hurricanrana, but Dragon dropkicks Mysterio out of the air on a springboard. Mysterio rolls out, and Dragon swings through the ropes to kick him, skins the cat to dodge a punch, and dives out onto him.
00:19:24
Speaker
Back in, Dragon German Suplex for two. He didn't think it's three. He's wrong. He's going to do that a lot tonight. It's not his best running gag, I would say. Though Tony does get some good responses to it over the course of the night.
00:19:39
Speaker
Dragon Quibrada, slam, then Moonsault gets two. Dragon running Powerbomb, reversed into a Hercarana, and Mysterio tries the top rope Frankensteiner, but Dragon shoves him down, only from Mysterio to spring right back up and hit it for the three count and the win. Mysterio celebrates with the belt and makes motorcycle rev motions, earning some engine revs from the crowd. Tine and Tony praise Mysterio's effort there, and Hienan tells them to shut up.
00:20:07
Speaker
Tony says goodbye to today. Thoughts on this one? I mean, you sit or who's involved, you know, it's going to be good. Unless they're like wrestling with like one leg tied to the other, it's it's going to be really good. It's interesting because this is like says the first match against each other. So yeah, they feel very natural.
00:20:26
Speaker
Until Tenet said that, I thought these two have to have fought dozens of times. They probably didn't work out at the same level as, say, DDP or any Savage do, but I imagine they know each other well enough, even through acquaintances, other coworkers, they can sort of work these things out.
00:20:41
Speaker
And they both work more of the lucha style, so it's not like there's a clash of stuff there. That's the whole thing with Dragon is that he moved to Mexico to get famous. As he had one commentary, he didn't break out initially in Japan, so he moved to Mexico, got famous there until they brought him back. Yeah, which is amazing. I mean, that's dedication to your career right there, that he was willing to do what he had to do to be successful. The fact that he's still wrestling now does speak to that, yeah.
00:21:10
Speaker
The dives are, as you sort of mentioned, are definitely interesting on the show, given the raised height. His raise goes past the platform, but there's a bit where Dragon does his and they land solidly on the mat of the outsider brain. Right. You're like, don't roll away after you take that bump. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There will be a longer fall than you expect. Yes. It's gotta be a weird instinct you gotta fight, you know, land and roll off and do something. You have to wait. Nope. I'm an exo of Big Edge. Don't do that. Mm-hmm.
00:21:40
Speaker
It's also funny to see Dragon do what at this point is the tiger faint kick that's been through the ropes bit, which later becomes 619. That's true. That's true. Yeah. Young Ray is watching and learns. Honestly, the most second really critique of the match is that Ray's first Frankenstein is really good. Second one, because he rushes it is a little sloppy, but all things said, that's pretty minor.
00:22:06
Speaker
The other thing I was thinking about it reminded me of circuit 95 had the Itani match. It's Itani and Eddie Guerrero, correct? Yes. And they have the bit where Itani does the drop kick to Eddie Guerrero when his back is turned. Right. And we remember that in that thinking, you got to really trust this guy and your back turned. You don't know when to reflect. How much can you do to really be ready for that? It's just kind of like, I hope I've got the timing right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Still is among the smoothest springboard moves ever, Itani.
00:22:37
Speaker
Yeah, I thought this was an exceptional opening match, as you'd expect with these two. Fast-paced, filled with rapid, complex exchanges, perform picture-perfect each time. If this was really their first match together, you could not tell. It felt like they worked together quite a bit. There are a few very minor hesitation spots, but they're covered quite well, and the match as a whole is very smooth. And scary as that dive was, I do love that they incorporated the arena design into their match.
00:23:06
Speaker
They had a lot of variety too. They mixed matwork, striking, acrobatics, high flying, and power moves into one cohesive whole. Nice storytelling as well, with Dragon just a little too full of himself and distracted by the crowd to pull off a win when he has a chance. So this really, really worked to rev up the crowd, and me, by the excellent exciting match.
00:23:26
Speaker
It's a good way to open a show as a performer. They've learned. Yeah. Yeah. You can see from these early cruiserweight matches, why they reliably turn to them for the show openings as they go on. Because I mean, it's always really, really exciting. Just a great combination of stunts that are just amazing to behold.
00:23:45
Speaker
Yeah, the balance is just, they have to also give them stories and angles. Yeah, that they do less well at. That's the thing, yeah. They go, well, you guys go out and have these great matches every time. So then, yeah, they don't really focus on the other parts there. So eventually you've done all the matches already and you have the good, if you've seen it three or four times and there's no story, it's not quite the same anymore. Yeah. The pair would actually have a rematch at World War III, which almost makes a show sound worth watching.
00:24:15
Speaker
And as I mentioned at this point, I had a World War III that is, Dragon has since won the Super J crown. So he's actually defending it at that show as well. Okay, cool. That's sort of a warmup for the match we get with Malinko at Starkade, the following show. All right. And as for Rey, his next favorite match would be at Fall Brawl against your favorite wrestler, Super Callow. Right. It's just the hat and sunglasses you don't like, isn't it?
00:24:42
Speaker
It's it's it's weird like they're all like sewn together. It's the dark. I know We cut to mean Jean Oakland who heard dress like a biker and thought that means dressing like I'm going out fishing, right? Really mean Jean
00:24:58
Speaker
Gene builds up the hotline saying that they've seen people hanging around hog wild and it may bear on who joins the NWO. So this is a rare hotline ad that might actually have some bearing on the actual show if the person spotted hanging out is the person who actually comes out near the end. 1-900-909-9900. Back to Tony and he gives an overview of the Sturgis motorcycle rally as we get some shots of the crowd and motorcycles driving around.
00:25:26
Speaker
Heaton praises the custom paint jobs and power of the bikes. Some of them, he says, you only have to pedal three or four times to get up the hill. Great exasperation in Tony's voice as he reacts to that. Yeah, right. Back to the ring for our second match, which is Scott Flash Norton versus Ice Train in a special challenge match. Referee for this one is Randy Anderson.
00:25:51
Speaker
Fire and ice explode. It's basically an icy hot and stuffy robot for muscle cream. It's not that dangerous really. Is it like when they showed on MythBusters that if you have a pallet full of ice and you drop thermite on it, it actually detonates? I would summarize the story pretty well actually, yeah. There you go.
00:26:12
Speaker
So the story is that these two were tag team have been over very recently. They hadn't been going that long and it'll have been a few months. The story I did is that a previous class of champions, they also tag matched to of all teams, the rock and roll express. Oh, wow. Yeah. Kind of hang around WSE. I think longer than you would think, cause I think they would come in and out, I believe.
00:26:32
Speaker
By the way, is it just me or is it slightly weird that one of the longest running tag teams in wrestling history has the word express in it? Like a long length of time and express don't sound like they should go together. It's a very long trip. Also the match that sets up the breakup have it on main event and not, you know, nitro. Okay.
00:26:53
Speaker
That's, I guess that's the level of storyline importance they're giving to Fire and Ice. Apparently in real life, the two did not get along. They've since done numerous shoot interviews over the years. It's not like a hatred thing, just they weren't, they weren't, uh, compatible. Yeah, there you go. They weren't like, yeah, personalities weren't in the sink. Okay. One to more of a veteran wrestler, like, uh, Norton and one grump and cumber guy, they don't feel the same way.
00:27:19
Speaker
So, important thing for this match as well, which is mentioned but not explained very well. So on the Go Home Nitro, Giant defends his title against Craig Pittman and shockingly defeats him with very much ease. Afterward, just because he's so sort of revved up and mad about the story going on, he decided to choke slam his manager Teddy Long. Okay. Which other you write him off TV for a bit. And that's also Ice Train's manager, correct? Yeah.
00:27:46
Speaker
On WTV Saturday night, which I taped and ran before this, the giant cut a promo talk. I'm always going to do ice rain comes out, gets his face as you shouldn't attack a manager and gets beaten up by the giant. He notably gets thrown shoulder first into the ring post in the outside and then left their line, which is great way to build this guy up for his match. Admittedly, it is a giant, but it's still kind of weird that they haven't scared beaten up right before the show.
00:28:14
Speaker
A little bit, I can see that, yeah. They're starting to try to go for that chaotic atmosphere, maybe, a little more, where things can intertwine a bit, which is, that's a positive, I think. Yeah, no, sure. It maybe wouldn't be that bad if he weren't, you know, then going to face his former tag partner in what should be a big storyline match for him. Right. Now, you get done, like, if he comes out to berate a giant and he's attacked by Norton, that would be- There you go. Yeah.
00:28:38
Speaker
But the fact that he makes a challenge and then gets beaten up and left lying by somebody else does not look good for him before a big match. So that's why when you have him see him on the show, he comes out with his shoulder and arm and basically half his body wrapped up. Yes. He's the Yeti. He is.
00:28:57
Speaker
As Norton enters, the commentators discuss Norton and Train's history as fire and ice. Dusty says something about Norton having a different repitenda. Sure, I'm not sure what that means. According to Wiktionary, it may be a feminine form of repitendous, which derives from the verb repeto, which means to attack again, renew or repeat an action, recollect or demand. Whatever the case, Hayden says you can get some ointment for that.
00:29:26
Speaker
Tony busts a gut as Dusty appeals to the heavens for support. Ice Train makes his entrance, sadly wearing black and red. Wouldn't blue or white make more sense with his name? Yeah, right. As you mentioned Al, his shoulder is mega bandaged. It's basically the equivalent of the video game hit me here light that boss creatures have. He's more bandaged than man now.
00:29:50
Speaker
Before the match starts, Tony asks, what's going to happen if Hogan wins the title from the Giant tonight? Will the belt become NWO property? Dusty says no. No matter what, it's still the WCW title. Plus, Hogan is a contracted employee at this point, so to be fair.
00:30:08
Speaker
Norton goes right for the injured shoulder and pretty much controls the match, hitting Train's shoulder again and again. Train occasionally fights back, but a single blow from Norton will usually stop that. Dusty mentions Train's being attacked by the Giant earlier in the night, and Henan's amazed at Train's ability to keep going, saying he should have just said, maybe next week. Tony and Dusty disagree. Of course.
00:30:32
Speaker
Train does an excellent job selling, showing that he's unable to even muster much strength for return strikes. He does finally manage to dodge a clothesline and hit a power slam for two, and hits some clotheslines with his good arm, but Norton just boots him in the gut, takes him down by the arm, and locks on an armbar. Tony is just giving credit to Train for not giving up when Train gives up. Yeah. Tony is audibly disappointed in him. Mm-hmm.
00:30:58
Speaker
He'd have saved himself a lot of pain if he'd given up 20 minutes ago, Henan says. That would have been like 15 minutes before the match started. Yes, yes. Norton stomps Train once more for good measure as he exits, and Tony builds up Norton's work as a ringside guard on a recent nitro, and says the NWO had better be watching him because you don't want to fool with him. Henan agrees and says they'd better watch if they want to succeed, but Hurley notes he doesn't want them to succeed. Of course. Thoughts on this one?
00:31:26
Speaker
It's a good match if you like big meaty people hitting each other. Who doesn't? Oh yeah, of course. Everyone loves that. Yeah, it's an interesting contrast to have Mysterio and Dragon and then followed by these two guys. And that's a bad contrast. If you can have really good matches that are distinct from each other,
00:31:46
Speaker
as opposed to having, say, six tag matches or eight tag matches in a row. Yeah, I just recently went back and listened to our Starrcade 89, and if you remember, that's the double tournament show where I was just complaining the whole time about, how many tag matches are going to make me watch in a single night? If only you knew that wasn't the most you'd watch in one night. Oh, God, yeah.
00:32:08
Speaker
Like I said, I'm kind of torn on the idea that they had him get beaten up before his P2P match. At the same time, they make a good story out of it. And I kind of get the feeling he wasn't going to beat Norton anyways, because you sort of want the redemption story for him. If he wins right away, there's no reason for a follow-up match. Yeah, yeah, I think you kind of got to do it as a longer. When you do a tag team breakup angle, unless it's so monstrously huge already, like, you know, a Hogan and Savage megapowers thing.
00:32:35
Speaker
You really got to have a few matches in it before you have the good guy win it. Yeah, exactly. So at least playing those advocate here this way, it gives him a good excuse for why he doesn't win the match. Yeah. He's working at like 50% capacity, probably less in storyline. So going down to defeat while fighting.
00:32:54
Speaker
fairly admirably is good. He looks like he's really, really trying and just his body isn't capable of it at this point because like you said, he's been beaten up badly. I'm always a little bit torn on having faces tap out and that will, I guess verbally submitting at this point.
00:33:13
Speaker
But, you know, it works here, I think. Okay. But I could see doing this where he's attacked the injury area again, and it'll be pinned from that versus giving up on there. I could see that or having him do the pass out thing. Yeah, that would work as well. Though I think it is like that's something that can be overused as well. You kind of do need to sometimes have people actually submit to holds and.
00:33:35
Speaker
I think it does damage you a little bit to have that happen, but at the same time, like you said, they've got a clear excuse for it. He's got a major, what's clearly meant to be a major injury to this limb, so it makes sense that you would ultimately decide, I just can't do it anymore. It gives Norton something to lord over him and something for him to get revenge on. That's true.
00:33:58
Speaker
Yeah, this match was about 99% strikes to Ice Train's shoulder, but I didn't hate it. For one, it's pretty short. It's only like five minutes long, so it didn't overstay its welcome. It made its point, gave Train one or two hope spots, and then wrapped up before it got tiresome.
00:34:14
Speaker
The extreme focus and the way Train just can't manage to fight back do give it a very, very different feel. It's kind of like Luger versus Buddha from, again, Starrcade 89. Yeah, that's true. Just with less Luger selling. Right. Speaking of selling, Train does quite a good job at it, even removing the power from his own strikes and looking like he only barely manages the couple slams that he does. It was a nice bit where he pulls the strap down and the single on the one side so he can get his arm more mobility.
00:34:43
Speaker
Good portrayal of a guy who wants to keep fighting, but just can't, versus an opponent who is all too willing to use his injury against him. I feel like I would be annoyed with this one if it went very long, but at only five minutes, it's fine. It's even, I would actually say, on the good side. Yeah. I mean, the last Scott Nord match we covered was the 20-minute time on the draw. That's true. That's true. And that wasn't a bad match. No, yeah, that was perfectly acceptable. Right. I do have a question though. What makes this a special challenge?
00:35:14
Speaker
Um, the arm bandages. Okay. Sure. It was especially challenging for ice train. That is true. Yes. I can't argue with that. At fall brawl, there'd be rematch between the two, which would unsurprisingly be a submission match. Okay. So at least the verbal submission in this case builds up to another match. Right. Yeah. Like I said, if you at least use that as part of the angle going forward, then I'm fine with it.
00:35:44
Speaker
Tony throws to clips from an interview that Ric Flair gave on an episode of WCW Saturday Night, sitting in street clothes in front of purple lockers. Title cards come up to highlight the subjects that he was addressing, starting with The Attack on Arne Anderson.
00:36:03
Speaker
Hogan, Nash, Hall, whoever. You hurt my best friend. Didn't matter what I was standing with, staying in Luger. Through association, they could be in an ambulance with me, they could be in my home. The Barnes Anderson's down, I'm there.
00:36:25
Speaker
I mean, Arne Anderson and I have been up and down this road for 15 years, man. We have bled, we have sweat, and we've cried. The emotion in this business is huge. It's hard. It's hard on you personally. I hate it.
00:36:41
Speaker
decided in my own mind that Hogan in the New World Order and the Horseman could coexist. But then they jumped on Art Anderson and it became a whole new awareness, a whole new ballgame.
00:36:59
Speaker
This is our business. We stand top by getting involved. I got a real friend in life. It's this company. This company is the best. I'll stand up for it. I'll fight for it. It's on now. It's on the table. It's us. It's survival of the fittest. It doesn't matter whether I like Sting or Sting likes me or Luger. It's one company now trying to be taken over by another. If the new world order
00:37:28
Speaker
wants to make their mark and to really score. You've got your opportunity now, because the horsemen are involved. Two of us can't survive. Two companies can't survive. Go to bed with that thought tonight. Tony says flair means what he says and speaks for all of WCW.
00:37:51
Speaker
I thought this was an excellent and very, very different promo from Flare. There's not a trace of his usual bombastic style. He's deadly serious, speaking slowly and calmly, but with anger and emotion under the surface. What's great here is he doesn't abandon his character to just become a face all of a sudden. Instead, he acknowledges that he'd been prepared before to just let the NWO do its thing, even knowing what they'd done so far.
00:38:18
Speaker
but that the injury to his friend both made it personal and brought home the sheer scale of the threat. So this isn't a good guy promo. It's a promo from a villain who sees the necessity of putting aside his differences with the good guys, a villain you can start to feel some sympathy for. Man, there are some great promos in the early days of the NWO angle.
00:38:39
Speaker
Yeah, I can say it's nice to see serious flare, no wooing, none of the catchphrases. It's as much as you can get as a serious straight laced brick flare promo you're gonna get, yeah. Yeah, I think the last time that I can think of that we heard one like this was Starrcade93 when he's building up the match with Raider where he has that very heartfelt one with, I think it's Gene that rides with him in the limo on the way to the show. Yeah, so yeah.
00:39:06
Speaker
Yeah, I remember that one just being like, wow, that's that's really different for a Ric Flair. And this one is kind of like that. It's this utter change in tone where it's still recognizably the same character, but he's setting aside all the big bombastic bits and just being the human side of the character. Was it the first Wrestle War where he has the promo after the match and he's attacked by Funk? Because that is somewhat similar. Yeah, a little bit of that too. Yeah.
00:39:33
Speaker
We get some more shots of Sturgis, as Tony talks up some of the other events, including some at the Buffalo Chip campground. Keenan is in disbelief at that name, as am I. Yeah. After an ad on Peacock, we come back for an ad for WCW's hog wild shirts and denim jackets. Jimmy Hart appears at the end to just announce that he has both of them. It's kind of weird that they don't have him do any kind of more character driven line, you know?
00:40:00
Speaker
Yeah, they're like an hour to shoot the promo for the plane, I guess. Or just like, at least have him do his wild laugh. But they don't have to do anything. It's just like, hi, I'm Jimmy Hardin. I have a jacket. They don't want to have a jacket. It would be Jimmy Hardin. That is true. That is true. Sadly, the phone number is no longer active, so I can't get you one out. I know you would want one for your birthday. Oh.
00:40:23
Speaker
Our third match is Bull Nakano with Sonny Ono versus Medusa in the Battle of the Bikes. The referee for this one is Randy Eller. I'll say I described as the Loser's bike gets smashed match.
00:40:39
Speaker
Let's eloquent. To actually have a logo for it and everything, I believe that actually just says Battle of the Bikes. Right. Yeah, there's a bit of a Nazi sort of racial element to it, obviously, that Japanese bikes against American bikes. Yeah, yeah. It's not real or bad. It's just like on the edge. And to be fair with that a little bit anyway, though I know we're going to likely critique this crowd a little bit later in this show.
00:41:01
Speaker
But to be fair to that, there's a little bit of it just being sport bike versus Harley, you know, hog type of bike as well, because that's also a thing without even getting into the different nationalities type of stuff.
00:41:13
Speaker
Bull was brought into WCW due to the shared history between Medusa and herself. When she was Alundra Blaze, right? Yeah, that's correct. Of course, all of that was in WWF. In fact, they were fighting over the belt that Medusa famously threw in the trash when she first debuted.
00:41:33
Speaker
So it's weird that there's no fighting sensibly over that same issue. You know, she disrespected that belt, which she replaced with nothing. If you really wanted to go interesting with this, you could have had Bulby the face by coming in and saying, I fought you honorably for that title and you disrespected it. Oh yeah. I realized that they'd be dealing with the other company's belt, but that would actually be a genuinely interesting way to do the angle.
00:41:58
Speaker
Right. They'd never feature WWF belt on pay-per-view, would they? Perhaps not knowingly. Yeah, that's true. That's really what it comes into. Yeah. As Al pointed out earlier, both competitors will bring their motorcycles to ringside for this match, and the winner gets to break the loser's bike with a sludge hammer. Tony says a lot of the bikers here will want to see a bike destroyed, and Dusty agrees, as long as it's not their own. Yeah? Ono rides Nakano's bike out.
00:42:26
Speaker
Nakano's blue and gold outfit is awesome. Her anti-gravity hair is, as always, amazing, but it seems particularly tall today. It's in the mountain air, I think, yeah. Heat and jokes that she could wear Abe Lincoln's stovepipe hat. Yeah.
00:42:43
Speaker
Ono parks the bike, a Honda Sport bike with the Rising Sun motif, and a crew member brings a wood block over to give the kickstand something solid to rest on on the dirt ground. Then he places it wrong and leaves so that poor Ono has to adjust it himself. Poor guy.
00:43:00
Speaker
Medusa comes out riding her pink Harley, and Toni mentions that she was one of several performers who rode all the way from Minneapolis to Sturgis on her motorcycle, and name drops Sting, Eric Bischoff, and the Steiners as other participants. Hienan says he would have joined them in his limo, but his driver doesn't like dirt roads.
00:43:21
Speaker
Dusty says, this ain't gonna be pretty, then starts digging a hole for himself by saying Nakano isn't pretty, digs deeper by saying he's seen pretty women who aren't pretty, even deeper by implying that they're in Sturgis, and finally just gives up and says, Medusa better stay away from Nakano's power. You ever start a sentence and just know it's not coming out right, but everything you say to try and fix it makes it worse? Yeah.
00:43:44
Speaker
As Medusa gets in the ring, Ono comes up to argue with the referee, seemingly asking for the sledgehammer that's meant to be used to break the loser's bike. The ref visibly goes to hit him with it, and he backs off. Tough referee. However, that does provide enough of a distraction for Nakano to nail Medusa in the back with Dunchucks, while Medusa is watching Ono.
00:44:06
Speaker
Nakano spins them expertly in between hitting Medusa as the ref clearly sees that but tries to pretend he just happened to turn away. Dusty absolutely delights in saying, numb chucks! As Nakano flings Medusa around by her hair, earning a one count with an arrogant cover, Tony wonders who's going to get to use the sledgehammer on a bike. Dusty misinterprets that and corrects Tony that Nakano used numb chucks, not a sledgehammer. He then claims that's Japanese for sledgehammer.
00:44:36
Speaker
Nakano earns one off a slam as Medusa bridges out, and Medusa gets two off some running takedowns. Nakano pretzels Medusa with what Dusty calls a combination scorpion deathlock and an elevated surfboard. The Bulls Angelito. But Medusa won't give up, so Nakano DDTs her for two and works the chinlock, but Medusa fights back and they trade two counts. Medusa Frankensteiner, Nakano Lariat, Medusa German Suplex, Nakano back suplex,
00:45:04
Speaker
The ref actually kicks the camera sliding into count for that one. Medusa's sunset flip earns two, but Nakano back suplexes her for the three count.
00:45:15
Speaker
Ono and Nakano celebrate, but the ref tries to wave them off, but Ono has already run to Medusa's bike with the sledgehammer. Ono poses for a generous amount of time to let everyone get in position, then hits Medusa's bike on the padded seat exactly once before the referee stops him, with Medusa stealing the hammer a moment later. Medusa chases him with the sledgehammer, but then stops with the Honda and starts smashing it with the sledgehammer.
00:45:40
Speaker
I imagine that Nakano's bike is just for the show while Medusa's is actually hers based on the relative damage. Yeah, right. He didn't claim the motorcycle might explode. Dusty is fine with that. I think an explosion might be bad for the nearby fans. It's a Honda, not a Ford Pinto. That's true.
00:46:00
Speaker
Medusa does rather unimpressive damage to the bike in all honesty, with the only big shatter being the headlight, but she does at least manage to tear off some of the paneling after a few hits. She shoves the bike over. I think everyone probably thought that would look a lot more destructive than it did, but the hunt is too well made. Yeah. Tony finally theorizes that in fact, Nakano's shoulders have been down for the three count in that final spot, and the ref indeed raises Medusa's hand, so it seems that he's right.
00:46:28
Speaker
Medusa lands a few more blows on the down bike and finally manages to give it some visible cracks, but looks exhausted. It does serve as a good ad for the durability of Honda motorcycles, I guess. Yeah, fair enough. Thoughts on this one? I thought it was good, but not amazing. These two, as mentioned, they work together a lot, both in Japan and in the WWF fighting with the title. Both, in fact, held the title for a brief period of time.
00:46:54
Speaker
It's a weird thing where Nakano actually wins the title originally in Japan as a big festival, which WVF doesn't show, just kind of says how that happened, which is kind of a shame. That in mind, obviously they know how we chose to work. They have their timing down really well. Just for me, there's nothing they do that's really all that exciting. It's good basic mat work and basic slams and drop kicks and stuff like that. Yeah, it's all perfectly solid, but it never quite feels like it rises above.
00:47:23
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Other than the ending, nothing bad happens, honestly. The thing with the ending is it's so weirdly vague for a match of this stipulation and for this crowd, quite frankly. Right, yeah. Because they're going for the produce that puts her shoulder up in the last second on a move. So the condo shoulder down pinning herself on a suplex.
00:47:47
Speaker
Which is funny because she did a suplex earlier, which I don't know if that was supposed to be the finish before and they kept going because she does the back suplex with the bridge, the kick out of two, and then they just do it again later. Yeah, I think that's just two separate spots, but yeah, it is weird to repeat it then. It is weird to be basically the same move. Yeah, I could see if they did the back suplex where you sort of rotate and land on the person. That could work. I was more of a second top rope kind of move, but.
00:48:14
Speaker
Yeah, it's not a very flashy match, but it's not bad. I just wish they had a more clean, obvious finish for these two. Yeah, yeah. I think they kind of had to do it that way because they wanted there to be tension about Medusa's bike being in danger, but then they want her to actually get to do the breaking of the Honda, obviously, for the crowd. So they're kind of stuck then with a weird finish, but that in and of itself deadens the response that they're getting. Yeah. Because the crowd's like, wait, what just happened?
00:48:44
Speaker
I would've honestly did do some wins. Maybe she wouldn't like to, I could kind of roll up of some kind and the condo after the match, tax her and takes the hammer. Yeah. Have Nakano and Ono say, no, even though we lost, we're going to try and break the bike. Cause they're bad guys. They could do exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
00:49:02
Speaker
where I think you and I, when we first watched this, both thought, wait, didn't Medusa lose? Yeah. And then it made her look like the bad guy because she was disobeying to match them. But then I finally figured out, no, wait, she actually did win. It was just really unclear.
00:49:16
Speaker
Yeah, I think other than the weird ending, this was a nice little contest of Medusa's speed versus Nakano's power. Nakano can hurl Medusa around with ease and every strike from her hurts, but Medusa does manage to surprise her periodically and get the advantage and start to wear her down. So it feels like they're setting up for a longer storyline of Medusa's individual strikes eventually adding up.
00:49:37
Speaker
But then the match just kind of unceremoniously ends. So I agree with you. Despite some good action, it kind of feels disappointing as a result. Like it's the beginning and middle of a good eight to 10 minute match, but they forgot to write the conclusion. Yeah, because this is only barely longer than the Norton versus ice. Yeah, it was about five minutes long. Yeah.
00:49:55
Speaker
I think, fortunately, it's the timing of when this match is happening. Because when you look at it, like in Medusa, it left the WWE off because they weren't using the vision very much, threw the belt down, and then they gave her nothing to do except fighting any random woman like, here's the Cheri original, and she comes in, and what's her name? The crazy screaming lady. She fights her on pay-per-view as well. Little Vachon. Little Vachon, thank you, yeah.
00:50:21
Speaker
It's not for a while, they go, should we have a belt for women and should we hire more than one on a full-term basis and have the wrestle? So I think if this had happened maybe two years later, and they had a booming division in two years, I don't think they even do with that .97, then this could have been given the time it actually needed, or been in Japan where we'd gotten the time needed.
00:50:43
Speaker
Yeah, I think you give this another few minutes for them to fully have room for a storyline to breathe, kinda. And I think it becomes quite good. Yeah, there's lots of time to hit spots and that's it. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, good action, weird ending.
00:51:00
Speaker
So he would have a follow-up match at Class 28, which would air on the Thursday after this show. Oh, okay. So how many days is that? That'd be five days? Am I right? Yes, I think so. It's late. I can't do math. Sorry.
00:51:16
Speaker
They would also have one more match, which would be on pre-taped WCW Saturday night, which would air the following Saturday. Okay. After the match, there is a promo where Nakano and Ono are gloating about how they won, by the way, they won. And the first instance of having a woman's championship in WCW, they say he wants championship for Nakano to hold, which of course, as you know, she's not even in the tournament.
00:51:43
Speaker
That's true. That's true. Yeah. Yeah. So the idea is introduced in storyline as Ohno giving her a belt to win, then she's never even contention.
00:51:53
Speaker
Medusa wouldn't have another PPV match until Starrcade 96. Wow. So yeah, not doing a lot with her, just part of why she left the other company. Yeah, it's a real shame that that happens, especially as you noted, because she left the other company because she was feeling like she wasn't getting enough opportunities there. Yeah. And then they bring her in and just proceed to basically do nothing with her for a long time.
00:52:17
Speaker
really never end up doing that much with her, unfortunately. Because she is a very talented performer. It's a massive shame. She is the sort of performer I think that you could have built a women's division around, bring in some of those performers that they bring in on a temporary basis, get some of them more permanently. You genuinely could have started the greater amount of women's wrestling back then that we see these days around a performer like Medusa. Absolutely.
00:52:49
Speaker
One of the reasons why Buena Cana was not in the tournament, which happens at the end of 96, is that at this point, she's segueing out of pro wrestling. Right. Where she decided in 1997 to become a pro golfer. Yes. It's just a weird thing to think of, that lady with the blue spiky hair screaming and throwing people. I can't imagine that she wore that on the golf course, but oh my gosh, I wish she wore that on the golf course. At least once, yeah. She like come out and it's basically a Mario golf. Yeah, there you go.
00:53:17
Speaker
Tony mentions that you can chat with WCW wrestlers on CompuServe. Remember when that existed? Barely. I had forgotten about that. We get a great shot of the two Steiner brothers typing on laptops. Scott is dressed disturbingly similarly to Dusty, though fortunately you can't tell if he too is wearing short shorts.
00:53:37
Speaker
It's implied that they're chatting on CopyServe, of course, but Rick is apparently actually playing a racing game instead, and Scott asks where he got it and tries to muscle in on it before deciding to finally be the responsible brother and actually answer fans' questions. You know what he's playing? Dusty asks. He's playing one of them games.
00:53:54
Speaker
Well, yes, that would be right, I suppose. But could you be more specific? Is it top gear, need for speed? Road rash? Yeah. It'd be weird to go to Sturgis and play road rash. I'm not sure if that's appropriate or strange. Yeah. I really like these bikes. I want to play road rash instead of being around the actual bikes.
00:54:16
Speaker
Tony starts to throw to the next segment, but apparently the folks telling him what's next are having a disagreement, so we can't find out if he's throwing to Oakland or not. Hienan settles it by throwing to Dean Malenko instead for our next match. So our fourth match is Dean Malenko versus Chris Benoit with Woman and Elizabeth. Referee for this one is Nick Patrick.
00:54:40
Speaker
Kevin Sullivan, both in real life and in kayfabe, had his wife, woman stolen from him by Chris Benoit. Part of this very awkward, even then, but especially now, watch storyline. So the way they expanded it, because I guess they realized they can't have Benoit and Sullivan wrestle each other 20 times, only like, you know, six.
00:55:04
Speaker
is that they have him basically sick other people on Benoit. So like put a bounty on him, basically. So for this storyline, he makes a deal with Malenko, where he's able to negotiate Malenko getting a Cruiserweight title shot, which will happen in exchange for him taking out Benoit. Okay. As Malenko makes his entrance to his excellent JRPG evil empire music, Dusty builds up Malenko and Benoit as two of the best matte technicians in WCW.
00:55:32
Speaker
Malenko enters alongside Jimmy Hart, who can be heard promising that he'll take care of something for Malenko, as long as Malenko takes out Benoit.
00:55:40
Speaker
Malenko and Hart shake hands and Hart exits. Tony says Hart promised Malenko a title shot, but seems to say it was one he got this morning against Rey Mysterio Jr., not an upcoming one. So this is Malenko fulfilling his end of the bargain. It's a bit confusing, because when Hart talks about it, it sounds like it's upcoming. Yeah, it happens at the Clash show that happens on Thursday. Or at least one of them does, and this is more than one match. Yeah. There's definitely a critical match between Malenko and Mysterio at that show. Weird. Yeah.
00:56:10
Speaker
Benoit enters next, accompanied by two devilish women, according to Dusty. Woman has a very sparkly American flag top, though oddly the pattern is reversed. The stars are on the right and the red and white stripes are on the left. I thought someone looked off about that. Yeah. We get another helicopter shot, and the commentators actually have to discuss which WCW helicopter is doing the camera shots. They hired more than one? Well, they both made such good offers, so you can't pick, you know?
00:56:39
Speaker
Gosh, how much money did this company blow on this pay-per-view? Speaking of Benoit and the Horseman, Dusty notes that Benoit has his own repatendant. Still have no idea what he means. I'm guessing maybe reputation, but it doesn't sound particularly like that. No, it doesn't.
00:56:59
Speaker
Milenko and Benoit get in each other's faces and rapidly trade strikes as Dusty and Henan discuss the strengths of the current generation of horsemen, two counts off a Milenko suplex, Milenko elbow drop, Benoit leg drop, Benoit back elbow multiple times, and for both with a complex and rapid counterwrestling sequence that must be seen to be believed. Henan calls Milenko the man of 3,000 holds, but says that Benoit is at that level too.
00:57:25
Speaker
Malenko short-armed scissors as Hina name drops Pat O'Connor for a blast from the past. But Benoit rolls backwards, earned two, then gets to his feet, picks Malenko up with the hold still on, and suplexes him. It's an amazing visual. Oh my gosh. Can you imagine the balance and strength necessary to pull that off? Right? Yes. Wow. Well, how do you practice that? Yeah.
00:57:52
Speaker
It's one of those things where like, who had the idea to do that first? You know, it's like, who's, who's crazy enough? Like either to say, yeah, I think I can do that. Or to say, yeah, I'll let you do that to me. Yeah. I'm confident you won't drop me on my skull. Further two counts from a Benoit elbow drop and snap suplex, but Malenko smoothly escapes from an abdominal stretch. Dusty wonders what the new aluminum will bring as Tony gently corrects that it's a millennium. Yes.
00:58:19
Speaker
Malenko and Benoit collide on a crossbody, but are up at five. Benoit snaps suplex and swan dive head bug at two and nine tenths. Woman is incensed at the count, but Dusty defends Patrick's reliability. Malenko reverses a Tombstone Piledriver to his own for multiple two counts, but Benoit rolls him up on the Texas Cloverleaf for two. A Malenko crossbody sends both outside, where Benoit tries to send Malenko to the post, but Malenko reverses.
00:58:49
Speaker
Back in, Milenko is too slow to climb and Benoit superplexes him down, but hurts himself as well. Both are up at 6. Two counts off of Benoit's scoop slam, Milenko German suplex reversal that hurls Benoit, a Benoit roll-up, and a Benoit clothesline, a Milenko clothesline, a Milenko belly-to-belly, a Benoit Northern Lights suplex, and a Benoit Bridging German suplex.
00:59:13
Speaker
Hienen now says Malenko has 2,500 holds and Dusty points out that's lower than before, so Hienen upgrades it to 4,000. Five minutes remain. Benoit locks on what looks like Jericho's lion tamer, but Malenko gets the ropes. Malenko ducks outside after an elbow, but Benoit dives out after him, sends him back in, and does some crazy kind of spider pin for two. Maybe he should wear Mysterio's outfit.
00:59:40
Speaker
Two counts off a Milenko forward roll suplex counter, Milenko backslide, Milenko roll-up, Benoit pins on an exhausted Milenko, Benoit powerbomb, Milenko superplex, Milenko Oklahoma roll, and Milenko powerbomb. As time expires. There must be a winner though, so Patrick gives them five minutes of overtime. Dusty as thrilled.
01:00:04
Speaker
Malenko gets in Benoit's face, then Patrick's. So Benoit slugs Malenko from behind and back suplexes him for two, then tilt a whirl backbreakers him for two. Dusty calls that a whirly burly backbreaker. Why not? Yeah. Dusty claims they've used, quote, everything in Mike today's dictionary of pinning somebody. I really want that book. Yeah, pretty fun. Benoit locks on Malenko's own Texas cloverleaf.
01:00:30
Speaker
Malenko struggles, taking every opportunity to build up his own finisher. But he won't give in, so Benoit lets go and grabs his leg. But Malenko enzigiris him and both are down for seven, and again after they collide head to head. Benoit works the leg and uses a leg scissors for two. Malenko rides in the hold and gets the ropes. Benoit grabs him, but Malenko rolls him up for two right at the bell. Patrick gives us another five minutes.
01:00:59
Speaker
Malenko can barely stand, but he manages to catch a kick and hit a dragon screw leg whip. Sadly, Mike Tenet is not there to let Dusty know what that move is called. So you don't get the hilarious reaction until Starrcade 96. Yeah, it's a shame. Benoit dragon suplex for two and they trade suplex counter attempts until Benoit drops on top of Malenko for two. Malenko dodges a drop kick and locks on the Texas clover leaf.
01:01:26
Speaker
but behind Patrick's back, Woman takes Benoit's hand. Malenko spots Woman, and he goes to grab her instead, so Benoit pulls his tights and uses the ropes to pin him for the three count and the win. Malenko lies distraught in the ring, as Benoit immediately rolls out to celebrate with Elizabeth and Woman, making the Horsemen sign.
01:01:46
Speaker
Dusty bemoans that in to such a great match. Tony says, as far as the Dungeon of Doom are concerned then, Milenko didn't hold up his end of the bargain. He and him praises the match, and says there were moves he'd never seen before. Dusty is full of praise for Milenko and the battle that he fought. Thoughts on this one?
01:02:05
Speaker
Understandably, given the pair, it's a very rough and tumble, but also a very technical match. It's a good mix of a bit of what we got in the first match with the tentacle side Dragon has with his power move that are very precise.
01:02:20
Speaker
And a little bit of the big meeting men hitting each other, you get just with smaller meeting men in this match. Yeah. Good point. It's kind of take the first two matches and combine them. And I think you got to have this one. Yeah. If only I could have worked a bike in it, we could have made all three matches. There you go. Yeah. Kind of got to put a horseman symbol on a bike or something. Yeah. It's Blanco and Benoit. They don't have bad matches against each other. At worst, they have matches that are good, but there's no story, which is kind of what this is.
01:02:50
Speaker
Really the story is just Valenco is a hired gun, which is fine. And Benoit is just is a heel with his managers and everything. It'd be nice to have Morte's story to match, but it's hard to complain when these two wrestle. Yeah, yeah, that's kind of the thing. I want two minds about the length.
01:03:10
Speaker
Obviously having a longer well constructed match like this is not bad. But I think they kind of lost the crowd a bit when they went to a second overtime. Yeah, a little bit maybe.
01:03:21
Speaker
Maybe I can argue that's an issue of the crowd per se, but I think any crowd, we kind of get a little restless because I think the match is building a crescendo and then it stops, you know, okay, let's keep it going. That's fine. But then they stop and keep it going again. You think maybe if they did a single 10 minute overtime and had the ending just happen as part of that, rather than having that second break in there that stops the momentum? It's definitely the break for sure. I don't think the match itself is too long. I think it might be good.
01:03:48
Speaker
Yeah, I think you could do an identical match length, but just not have that second break in there, and I think you'd be fine. Yeah, there's not much they really repeat as well. I mean, they both get to do the bridge out of a pin spot. Yes. Like they're doing it slightly better, but it's hard to really nitpick because of how it matches. They don't really mess things up. The only thing you really get repeated is the superplex spot. They both do one, but... It's a superplex, do you mind? Yeah.
01:04:19
Speaker
I like the idea that they have this big, hardly fought match, they really tactical. And then, in this case, I think the T finish kind of works. If you're really committed to Ben while being a heel, I think this works. You show he can do all this stuff, and then he teaches to get the victory at the end. It really tells the story that way. As long as you don't do it too often, I think it's fine.
01:04:42
Speaker
Wow. Just wow. This was an exceptional, lengthy, hard fought match with an absolute ton of variety. Every time I thought that I'd seen everything they had, they went further and introduced a new element. There's some of the best pinning trade-off sequences I have yet seen and some truly excellent counters. And through what Wikipedia tells me is a 26 minute, 55 second match. These two do not slow down. No.
01:05:08
Speaker
They kept going full tilt well past the point where I am sure that they had to be exhausted. Oh, sure. Heck, Nick Patrick looked exhausted. But even exhausted, Milenko and Benoit are still crisp and precise with every single move. This is a showcase match for these tubes potential.
01:05:27
Speaker
And like you, Al, even though it's a bit of a cheap finish, I don't have a huge problem with it. These two have kicked out of so much, gotten out of so many holes that you actually almost had to have one of them cheat to win. Nothing else would feel like it should take them down at that point. Maybe you can call that a flaw, but I think it's also a compliment of how amazingly strong this made both of these guys look.
01:05:50
Speaker
I think everybody already knew that Milenko and Benoit were amazing performers, but their ability to put on a clinic like this for almost 27 minutes outdoors in the summer heat had to demonstrate to any remaining doubters that these two would be two of WSW's most reliably excellent performers for years to come. Absolutely amazing match.
01:06:09
Speaker
Yeah. It's funny that they build up the whole new William coming up because obviously both of them would leave in 2000. Yeah. And their circumstances that did not make WWE look very good. Yes. Yeah. That is the problem that they're relied upon to a point and trusted and given positions where they can be showcased, but they're never really ever allowed to grow beyond a certain level. And that's where they both end up making their exit. Yeah. This match shows at least why they were so relied upon.
01:06:40
Speaker
Looking at the managers at the ring side is kind of interesting as well because, but this ended in a later match. I don't think Elizabeth really does anything. It's kind of weird. She's only really shown, um, like occasionally talking to women. Yeah. But woman, I have to say was doing a tremendous job in this match. She was doing a really excellent job at ringside of never taking over or anything, but complaining at Nick Patrick on some of the counts and just looking
01:07:04
Speaker
ticked off at some of the points when Malenko was in control. Like I said, she doesn't draw attention to herself, but I thought it was really one of the stronger manager performances I've seen from her in the matches we've seen with her at ringside. Yeah, she does so much and then a little bit just kind of also there. Yeah. And maybe it's just that the camera didn't end up pointed at Elizabeth as much. I don't know, but it didn't feel like she did very much. Yeah. A woman is kind of chewing the scenery a little bit. A little bit, yeah.
01:07:34
Speaker
So Benoit would be rewarded for this 26 minute fair by getting matched against a giant on the next Clash show, which happens on Thursday. The match would go 28 seconds. Almost one second per minute. Yes. It's weird. I watched him like thinking it has to be more to this, but so he goes to the corner for his match. He's going to take his jacket off. Somebody thinks he's distracted by a woman. Like she's, she's trying to pull it off and he's trying to pull it off. I don't get it. Giant runs in, drop kicks him and chokeslams him.
01:08:03
Speaker
And you're like, oh, OK. Yeah, that's that's a shame. I mean, I object to it less than I normally would just because of the giant. Right. I don't think there's too much dishonor and losing a match to giant and under a minute. Just like there's no real dishonor and losing a match to Goldberg and under a minute. Sure. But still coming off of this stronger performance, you'd hope that they'd highlight him a little more. Yeah.
01:08:26
Speaker
And obviously, as mentioned, there's a match between Blanco and Mysterio for the Cruiserweight Championship on that show. Okay. Which thankfully goes a lot longer than 28 seconds. Our fifth match is the Steiner Brothers Rick and Scott versus Harlem Heat. That's Booker T and Stevie Ray with sisters Sherry and Colonel Robert Parker for Harlem Heat's WCW World Tag Team Championship. Referee for this one is Randy Anderson.
01:08:55
Speaker
So me last saw the tiny brothers they were working for new Japan back in North Korea and that lovely show. They would go from there to actually working for ECW people kind of forget they ever worked there before finally come back in March of 96 to WCW for the first time in a few years.
01:09:14
Speaker
Quickly, obviously, their focus is when the tag titles, which at this point are held by Harlem Heat. There's a whole thing where Harlem Heat win them in this chaotic main event on Nitro, where Hall and Nash appear, but don't actually attack. They sort of appear at ringside, and while everyone's sort of gawking and trying to posture and scare them off, Stevie Ray just casually pins Luger, who seems very annoyed at this, more annoyed at the distraction than the fact that he was just pinned and lost his tag titles.
01:09:44
Speaker
By the way, I think that's the segment where cops are at ringside with their hands on their guns. Yes, that is it. At least they don't draw them, like in the Hogan segment on Spring Stampede 2000, was that? Yes, yeah. But still, that was a little bit uncomfortable. Yeah, there's a level here. Curiously, the Steiner Brothers actually would briefly hold the tag titles after their return. They'd win them at a house show.
01:10:10
Speaker
and then lose them again back to Harlem Heat at a different house show. And it never mentioned once on television. So it's like they got to win those titles again. We get shots of the rally and the crowd while the Steiner's music starts up. And Dusty spots a woman in a bikini in the crowd and directs Tony's attention to her, but claims he's actually pointing out the nearby motorcycle. Sure you are, Dusty.
01:10:37
Speaker
Hening claims the bikers gave him a trophy earlier, and Dusty gets a great line of response. Speaking of Bobby, there's a hot air balloon up there. Tony agrees that there's one in the air and one sitting to his right. As Harlem Heat enters, accompanied by Parker and Sherry, Tony notes that Parker is the last man he'd want to play cards against. Parker, in a rare moment, is wearing a brown suit, rather than his usual white one.
01:11:03
Speaker
Maybe he was wearing a white suit before he got there, all the dust is covered. Could be, could be. It's a lot of gravel dust in that area. Like when we went around the Renaissance Fair when it was at the Largo area and that lot was so dusty.
Harlem Heat vs. The Steiners: Race and Rivalry
01:11:16
Speaker
Oh. Anything you wore was just dark brown by the end of the day. Right. That can count in the mud show.
01:11:25
Speaker
Stevie oddly proclaims that they're going to whoop the Steiner so bad, they'll ride their hogs back looking like two pigs. I'm not quite sure what that means. I don't get it. No, yeah, I'm not sure I follow that one. The crowd is, shall we say, not fond of Harlem Heat.
01:11:46
Speaker
Yeah, that's fair. Stevie and Booker yell at the crowd and they get really riled up, inviting the heat to come into the crowd to fight. Hienan asks the others if they join the NWO for the right price and Dusty and Tony both deny it. Tony turns the question on Hienan and he hesitates. Tony asks for an answer and Hienan says, well, if Tony and Dusty are holding their ground, then that's right. They should do that.
01:12:09
Speaker
Tony bemoans his own foolishness and asking a question he knew wouldn't be answered. He didn't quietly advises him, don't trust Dusty. As it turns out, that would be accurate about a year and a half later. That is true, yeah. Always listen to Heenan. Yeah, he actually seems to kind of get it.
01:12:28
Speaker
This is about when the engine revving and horns start. So, okay. Harlem heat and to a lesser degree, the signers do work the crowd to get more reaction out of them, but it's a couple of black dudes in the ring surrounded by a load of mostly white bikers who are aggressively shouting, making rude gestures and revving motorcycles at them. It's a little uncomfortable. Yeah, for sure.
01:12:57
Speaker
Agitated, Booker shoves Scott, but turns to yell at the crowd again, so Scott beats him up and hits a double underhooked powerbomb. Stevie charges him, but Scott superplexes him, and Rick lunges him with a Steiner line. The heat flee outside, and the Steiners do their trademark pose in the ring. The bikes rev so loudly that it's hard to hear the commentary team. And it's apparently hard for them to hear each other, as Tony entirely misses a question that Dusty asked.
01:13:25
Speaker
The Steiner's dominate early, as Scott does well against Booker and Stevie in turn. Booker gives us a great, shocked look on a press slam, with Stevie only getting in a bit of offense off an eye rake. Rick gets in to Steiner lines Stevie for one and a half, and we're back to Booker, and the Steiner's earn two off of Scott mega belly-to-belly and a Rick suplex. But Booker gets Stevie to close line Rick.
01:13:49
Speaker
The heat wear Rick down and earn two off of a Stevie elbow drop. Stevie chin lock and Sherry advises him to break Rick's neck. The bikes rev up again. Back to Booker, who tries a leapfrog, but Rick catches him and slams him hard for two. Someone in the crowd has a Confederate flag. So add that to the list of things making this crowd reaction uncomfortable. Yeah, yeah, for sure.
01:14:15
Speaker
The signers get back in control with a Scott Dropkick, Scott STF, and Rick Camelclutch Chinlock as someone in the crowd throws a water bottle into the ring. Booker gets Stevie to pull the ropes down on a whip though when Rick tumbles outside. Excellent subtle signals by Booker in this match. Scott accidentally distracts Anderson so Stevie and Sherry can beat Rick up outside.
01:14:39
Speaker
Back in, Booker goes for the Harlem sidekick, but Rick ducks, and Booker crotches himself on the top rope. But, Stevie comes in to club Rick for two. Chinlock, and Heenan says, that won't make Scott give up. Tony notes, that's Rick. Heenan says he can't tell them apart, and Tony helpfully notes Rick is the one with the mustache. Rick fights free, but Stevie jump-kicks him, and tags Booker for strikes for two. There's so much revving and honking going on.
01:15:09
Speaker
Yes, Rick dodges an elbow drop, but Booker spin around, he's up and smoothly hits the Harlem sidekick. Then wonderfully slowly finger touches Stevie for the tag that is so like make finger guns at each other and touch fingers. The ET tag, I guess. Yeah, there you go.
01:15:29
Speaker
Stevie earns two, with a backbreaker followed by a suplex. A slam and he tags Booker, but Rick dodges a second rope forearm and tags Scott, who decimates both heat with forearms and Steiner lines, and gets two with an overhead belly-to-belly. Stevie saves with a leg drop, which look pretty cool. Rick decks Stevie, and they end up outside, distracting Anderson.
01:15:52
Speaker
Booker holds Scott, but he dodges Parker's powder throw, which hits Booker, only for Sherry to throw more powder and hit Scott. Parker breaks his cane over Scott's head, earning Booker the three count and the win. I do want to know what Randy Anderson thinks happened while his back was turned there. Yeah, suddenly both guys have white powder all over them. Oh well, that just sort of spontaneously happens, right? Must be one of those unseasonal snowstorms that's made of salt.
01:16:20
Speaker
They just stopped back to have a brief Coke party, you know? Things go wrong. In fairness, the crowd did start hurling garbage, so maybe he just thinks both guys got clocked by some of that. Yeah, yeah. Fair enough. The Heat make a quick escape with Parker and Sherry, and Rick checks on Scott as garbage rains down. Heenan says, Scott looks like he's out cold after eating a jelly donut. The replays show Parker was hit right in the butt with some of the trash while he was clubbing Scott. Oh, wow.
01:16:49
Speaker
Thoughts on this one? That was a pretty fun match, putting aside the whole crowd aspect of it. It's a really interesting story they tell. They tell the story pretty much that the Steiners are just ridiculously powerful and fast and strong. So if you give them a chance to fight, they'll just chuck you around like bails of hay. Yeah. With the heat, their whole thing is being really sneaky and really good with the tag team wrestling. All the negative stuff, like you'd see in the Flair Anderson tag match, that kind of stuff.
01:17:19
Speaker
Stevie Ray, for his part, is never great in a match, but he's usually never a drag on a match either. That's kind of the thing with him. At worst, he's serviceable, but he'd rather see Booker in the match as in general, but he's fine here. He's a valuable part of Harlem Heat. Yeah.
01:17:36
Speaker
I think we've said before, like, I don't really ever want to watch a Stevie Ray singles match. I've seen one of those, and that was enough. But in Harlem Heat, getting in and out and doing his spots, he's perfectly good. And he's great as a character for those as well. Yeah, so in their matches, as long as the balance is right, as long as it's like 60, 40 Booker to Stevie Ray, it's fine. Yeah. The finish is interesting because it's a lot of stuff going on.
01:18:05
Speaker
It's the thing where I think the commentary and the match, because they're not planned together, can sometimes be out of sync. I could have been earlier at how, as he's praising Ice Train for not giving up, he gives up.
01:18:18
Speaker
There's a bit few minutes before the finish where world famous manager, Bobby Heenan, who knows the thing about it, says if you have a world manager, you need to focus on the same thing. But in fact, them doing different things is what gets you the win because they're both separately throwing powder and then the more guys got the sticks. So interesting how they're out of sync, but also in sync, which gets them to work. Yeah. Yeah.
01:18:41
Speaker
As for the crowd stuff, I like to think that the crowd is really into the Steiner's. I know it's not what it is, or at least not easy to prove that it's all it is, but if you can focus on that, you can go, hey, this match with the unusual crowd has got a lot of attention. It got the crowd responding. It's obviously better when they don't respond with throwing trash, but it's better than having no response. Yeah. But then reason.
01:19:10
Speaker
It's definitely an uncomfortable crowd reaction as far as it goes.
01:19:14
Speaker
Again, the Steiners and the Heat are both working to bring out a crowd reaction, so it's not like this just suddenly starts up. The Heat starts yelling at them, the Steiners actually do start, I think, making revure engine motions and that kind of stuff. It's not like it comes out of nowhere, but the aggressiveness of it combined with at least the one dude in the crowd that does show off the Confederate flag makes you wonder about why this is so aggressive here.
01:19:41
Speaker
The one thing I will say in the crowd's defense, at least, is they did not seem to have any problem with Ice Train, who is also black. I would wager there are certain people in the crowd, at least, one of whom shows himself on camera, who probably have a different reason for disliking Harlem Heat other than just there against the Steiners.
01:20:03
Speaker
I think it's a case, too, of veteran workers really sort of making the best out of it. Yeah. Because he realized that they're getting this reaction from a vocal minority. So they go all in, they make it about how they're egging the crowd on, and the stunners get in on it, like I said. Yeah. If they were the faces acting innocent, like if these roles have been reversed and the stunners were the heels, it would look really uncomfortable and awkward. So at least they make the best out of the situation by working the crowding.
01:20:32
Speaker
You're watching at home, no catch all the stuff. You can think, oh, wow, they got to look at the crowds all wild up with this match. Yeah. I think I will just say this is the match more than any of them that I think I was glad that the ring was raised because you had that extra distance between the fans at ringside and the actual competitors. Yeah. Where they couldn't just like reach out and or easily jump in or something like that. Sure, sure. It just it definitely is a bit.
01:20:57
Speaker
uncomfortable is the best word i've got look at the show. Other than briefly but get the first match being past the ring area no one really fights too much around the actual barricades no yeah progress gravel i think is a big thing but yeah yeah.
01:21:17
Speaker
Yeah, so given all that, this one is a little bit weird. But as you said, the match itself is pretty much fine. There's some great action. And honestly, I found it some of Harlem Heat's best teamwork that we've ever seen. I particularly liked Booker's quick signals to Stevie, as I mentioned, and to his managers. The team just really felt on in regards to that, which was interesting because the crowd was so distracting and they kept pausing to yell at them almost as much as their opponent Scott will in the years to come. Yes.
01:21:46
Speaker
But I think the Heat just realized there were going to be some interruptions in the momentum for the crowd. So they worked extra hard on the other parts of the match. Yeah. The signers did their part too, of course. I don't want to undersell that. No, no, of course. And everybody just had some amazingly harsh versions of their normal moves to pull out tonight.
01:22:04
Speaker
But yeah, again, the crowd just made the atmosphere really strange and a little worrisome. So normally I'm happy about a match getting a big reaction, but something just felt wrong and extra negative to this one. So it made me happy that the Heat got the heck out of there really, really fast after the match was done. As well as the teams performed, I did have some trouble keeping focused on this one just out of worry.
01:22:28
Speaker
Harlem Heat would go on to lose their tag titles to the most unsung team in WSB history, the Public Enemy. The Uranium last a total of 12 days officially. It aired four days late on tape delay because it was on Saturday night. So it's really an eight day reign, but officially it's a 12 day reign. I'll, I'll pass numbers as much as I can for Public Enemy. So that's understand my biases there. The duo would then be challenged for the tag titles by the least unsung team in WSB history, the Nasty Boys.
01:22:59
Speaker
I may not be a fan of them in case you hadn't picked up by now from any previous episodes. The Oversung team. Yes, yes. Unfortunately, we won't get a lot of China Brothers a bit after this. On a September 2nd nitro, so about less than a month after this, Scott would take an injury in a match. It's nothing really major, but it was enough to keep out of action until January.
01:23:22
Speaker
Tony throws to footage of
WCW Road Trip and Flair vs. Guerrero
01:23:24
Speaker
the rally area, then to a video package of WCW's experiences with Sturgis. The piano music comes back for this as we see WCW's performers preparing for their road trip from the Mall of America in Minnesota to Sturgis, South Dakota. We see Sting, the Steiners, Bischoff, Mongo with his little dog Pepe dressed up as a biker and apparently bearing a tiny switchblade that Mongo shows off.
01:23:49
Speaker
Big Bubba, Paul Orndorff, who signs autographs, Medusa, who poses on her bike with an elderly lady who stays so still I thought she was a statue, and more. Then we get footage of the actual trip, which it does genuinely look like All Involved had a good time on. I will say I'm disappointed that Sting doesn't wear his face paint the whole time. Yeah, yeah.
01:24:11
Speaker
Rick Steiner gives us a thumbs up, Mongo and Deborah flash the four horseman sign, and DDP shows up to mug for the camera with a cigar. I do have to say, seeing this massive metal and muscle riding along the road would have been pretty cool. Several wrestlers narrate about getting ready for Sturgis, enjoying the road, and their experiences at the rally.
01:24:32
Speaker
We get shots of the rally again as well, most notably including a guy whose ride is done up like the USS Enterprise, the original series model specifically. Oh yeah, I remember that one, yeah. That's nice. A little less nice is the dude wearing nothing but a thong. Oh yeah. The next shot is a dude wearing a helmet with a massive, and I mean massive, set of horns. Overall, fun video package, and it looks like the WCW folks had a good time on the road trip, so it's nice to see a little bit of their actual lives here.
01:25:02
Speaker
Well, they're at the Mall of America. What if they got some pasta mania before they went on the trip? I hope so. That's a good question. What happened to pasta mania when Hogan turned? Oh, yeah. Did it become NWO pasta mania? Did they make a special black and white sauce that they pour on your noodles? They could do that squid ink spaghetti, yeah. Yeah, there you go. Squid ink spaghetti. That's how it's selling. I'm sure they definitely sell that at a Mall of America restaurant in 1996.
01:25:34
Speaker
Our sixth match is Eddie Guerrero versus the nature boy Rick flair with Elizabeth and woman for flares WCW United States heavyweight championship Referee for this one is Randy Eller At this point flair is not quite the elder statesman character, but he's definitely easy very well-established character And he's just going after it because he's got the title and obviously beating flair In 1996 to as a big notoriety to it. Yeah
01:26:01
Speaker
Notably, Flairwood would win the title from Conan, who of course is a friend and co-worker of Eddie Guerrero, at Bash at the Beach. And definitely the most famous match at Bash at the Beach is that title match. I can't think anything else from that show. The sun has mostly gone down, so the lights are on over the ring now.
01:26:22
Speaker
We get another helicopter shot of a hot air balloon. Guys, these shots are already more money than you should have been spending. Don't waste the cash on shots unrelated to your show. Guerrero comes out with the inverted form of his usual jacket tonight. It's primarily red rather than primarily white. It is very sparkly. It is very sparkly, yes. He probably felt the need to keep up with Ric Flair. Speaking of, Flair comes out with Woman and Elizabeth.
01:26:50
Speaker
Flair is in a fluffy white robe with silver sparkles, which looks amazingly out of place at a biker rally. But it's Flair, so he doesn't care. I do admit that I would have loved to see Flair's version of a biker outfit, though. Yeah. Yeah, I could see that. Maybe he b-robes his Harley. Ooh, yeah. There you go.
01:27:12
Speaker
Flair and Guerrero get in each other's faces and trade shoves. Guerrero beckons to Flair, but Flair just gives a woo. Guerrero looks supremely unimpressed. A woman in the crowd apparently propositions Flair, who tells her when this is all over, it's him and her. Well, that happened. Yep.
01:27:35
Speaker
Flair tries to shove Guerrero and the ref around, but repeatedly gets knocked down. Slaps don't go any better for him, so he retreats momentarily, but gets back in. They run the ropes and Flair catches Guerrero with what looks like it was to be a back suplex. But Guerrero seems to slip partway free and nearly lands on his face as Flair lands solidly on his right arm and takes a Guerrero boot to the back of the head for good measure. Ah.
01:28:04
Speaker
Flair screams in pain, clutching his arm, and Guerrero rolls out limping. That, clearly, was not what they meant to do. No. I'm guessing that Guerrero maybe was supposed to backflip free or something, but they just got their timing and momentum wrong. Yeah, I was trying to figure out if it was that, or if it was that float over pain that I talked about without a back suplex. Yeah. Maybe, but yeah, I would think it's probably the flip over.
01:28:30
Speaker
Both guys understandably take some time to regain their composure, but they thankfully seem more upset than hurt. Guerrero especially. You never want something like that to happen, but especially when you're getting what's really honestly a big chance for him. Yeah, he feels like he's frustrated with himself, I think at that point. Yeah.
01:28:48
Speaker
They do get back into it. Guerrero floors Flair with a punch, so Flair begs for mercy and flees outside. Back in, Guerrero awesomely headlocks Flair and backflips off the turnbuckle to bring him down, but Flair gets repeated two counts by rolling Guerrero onto one shoulder. Guerrero clearly blocks the other one going down, but the ref counts anyway.
01:29:11
Speaker
Guerrero gets too close as Flair again begs for mercy, so Flair pokes his eyes. Dusty, by the way, does a terrific job on commentary in this match, calling every one of Flair's attempts to cheat before they happen. So you can really get a sense of the Dusty and Flair history. Yeah, right?
01:29:29
Speaker
Flair beats Guerrero up with some nasty chops and punches as the crowd chants for Eddie, but Eddie fights back and dropkicks Flair to ringside, then sends Flair out again with the clothesline. Flair begs for mercy, but Guerrero beats him up, earning a Flair flop. Flair Ipoke. I don't think that really hurt him that bad, Dusty says. Flair punts Guerrero in the balls. That hurt him that bad, Dusty says.
01:29:55
Speaker
But Guerrero earns twos with a crossbody and a clothesline, and even slaps on the figure four. He gets a two-count with it, but Flair makes the ropes, though Eddie does hold on a little longer, as Tony notes that Flair had refused to break that hold on Chavo at an earlier occasion. Yeah, it's part of the build-up. Chavo got beat up by Flair. More two-counts off a ropewalk Hurricanrana and a tornado DDT, but Flair dodges a corner charge, but Flair Karma strikes for two.
01:30:24
Speaker
Flare dumps Guerrero outside, but his sunset flips in and grabs the tights, pulling them part way down for two. There's a full moon over Sturgis, boys! Dusty yells. Guerrero gets Flare down with a headlock, but lets go and tries the frog splash, hitting it, but hurting his knee so he's unable to pin.
01:30:44
Speaker
clothesline by Flair, and he slaps on the figure four, and sneaks in some extra leverage from the ropes, then from woman, as the pained Guerrero, unthinkingly, lies back on the mat for the three count, giving Flair the win. Flair celebrates with a belt as Dusty bemoans Guerrero's one big mistake that cost him the title, praising his efforts. Hienan celebrates Flair's win and gives an elongated woo. When I do it, it sounds more like a ghost, but yeah.
01:31:15
Speaker
You got to sound like it's air escaping from a balloon. Take it to proper woo. There you go.
01:31:21
Speaker
Thoughts on this one? Thankfully it's as good as matches you'd expect. Even bearing in mind this 1996 Eddie who not really hit his peak, because as good as a face Eddie is here, heel Eddie is like the definitive version of him. Yeah. And again, this is Florida 96, which obviously he would wrestle a lot longer and for some reason thinks he can wrestle in 2022. Please don't. That's all I ask. Even that in mind, it's really good to see this match and see how well they work together here.
01:31:50
Speaker
As you were talking about when you watched the match, Flair is really up for Eddie's more unique offense. Yes. Yeah. Cause he can't wrestle a lot of guys that wrestle like Eddie, especially at this point, maybe in like his touring NWA days, he might, you know, work Mexico for like a month. You get more of that, but working Debussy W, he's probably not getting any of that. So credit cards do, he really can help sell and take those moves away. He would think someone over old school wrestling like Flair can do.
01:32:19
Speaker
There's a lot of little nice touches here, like the fact that Eddie doesn't ever dive out and go after Flair on the outside. Yes. Because as they say, that's what Flair wants. Yeah. They bring up, you know, Flair will get you out there and then cheat somehow or run you into something hard. Exactly. So yeah. It's a nice bit of storytelling that Eddie, even at this point in his career, is veteran and wise enough to not fall for that trip. Yes.
01:32:43
Speaker
Obviously, that one bit early on where they do something quite wrong and they fall over, takes away the match a little bit, but that happens so early. Thankfully, you can almost forget it happened in the long term because they work so well later on. There's really no mess ups after that. Yeah, yeah, definitely. It definitely better when something that happens in the beginning and they can recover and just work around it. Yeah, they recover really, really well from it. I think they're shaken briefly, but they really come back from it quite well.
01:33:11
Speaker
especially doing more elaborate spots after that. Yeah. I could see someone less experienced and less confident, maybe a little gun shy, that part of the expression of taking other moves after having one go wrong like that. It's a good showcase for Eddie. The fact that even though he loses, he doesn't really look bad in his loss. Like I say, just the one mistake he makes that fortunately allows him to lose there.
01:33:37
Speaker
I think, you know, they did have that near disastrous fall early on. And that shot of Guerrero standing outside the ring upset by trying to get his head back in the game is honestly one of the things that's going to stick with me from this show. But it is really great how well they recover and they put together a really good match. It does have a few flaws that I kind of spotted. In particular, there's a surprising amount of repetition with the headlock and whip free spots coming up a lot. And then flares repeated beg for mercy spots.
01:34:07
Speaker
But in fairness, each time they do develop, each of those have something different happen after each of them. Sure. It just kind of feels like maybe they had a few less moves planned than their match time actually needed to me. Or perhaps maybe they did end up unable to do some of their planned spots after the accident if Flair's arm actually was hurt or something. Yeah, maybe.
01:34:28
Speaker
But still, I totally agree with you. I love that Flair was ready and willing to do a lot of Guerrero's big spots, like that tornado DDT and the rope climb Hurricane Rana. As you said, there's probably not a lot of guys that Flair fights on a regular basis that do that, but he was totally down for it. He was dedicated to helping Guerrero look good, which is a generous, generous performance.
01:34:52
Speaker
Well, there were ways I felt like this could have maybe been stronger. It's still an impressive showing, and Flair does a lot to build up Guerrero here, so Guerrero comes out of this stronger, I think, even though he loses.
01:35:04
Speaker
Yes, this is match for him as a testing ground if he can stand up and really deliver on a stage like this. Yeah. And with a point like he has, I'm thinking he absolutely succeeds. Yeah, absolutely. This elevates Guerrero despite the fact that he loses the match because he doesn't come out of it looking weak at all or anything. He comes out as well. This guy went toe to toe with a former like ungodly number of time world champion. Thirteen. Yeah, I think it's like 13 time at this point world champion and looked good the entire time.
01:35:34
Speaker
Honestly, that's a case where on a out-of-character standpoint, I think the fact that they had that problem but then were able to come back from it even further establishes why WCW would be willing to continue relying on Eddie afterwards. Something went wrong in the match, you came back.
01:35:51
Speaker
Yeah. You kept going and were able to perform at a high level still for the rest of it. As you said, other wrestlers might've gotten gun shy and hung back and said, Oh man, I don't know. Can we go for this or that? Yeah. But it takes them just a few moments and then they're back into things doing well. So yeah, good, good match. Good match. Absolutely.
01:36:11
Speaker
Dusty raises a good point. He does question why Elizabeth and women are allowed to be ringside after noticeably cheating the last minute. That is true. I guess wrestling logic says they can do what they want. They do have manager's licenses, so. Yeah. Fair enough. So there's not more storyline with these two. Unfortunately, obviously their paths will cross again. Even in WWE, they wrestle in like 2000, 2003, something like that.
01:36:39
Speaker
There's not any big US title matches, basically the rest of the year, which is kind of weird. Because Flair stays champion for quite a while, and he's on the shows. Like he's on full brawl in the main event, and he's involved in these things. The fact that he's US champion doesn't seem to really matter that much. It's kind of disappointing when they have what should be the huge testing ground to become world champion title, and it's not being really used that way. And obviously, as we know, Eddie Guerrero would win the US title at Starrcade that year.
01:37:08
Speaker
Windflare is out, and they have, of course, a tournament.
Giant's Rivalry with Hogan and WCW Dynamics
01:37:15
Speaker
We get yet more shots of Sturgis, and we cut to Mean Jean, who is with Jimmy Hart and the Giant. Giant stands there looking absolutely massive. Hart has his great Giant Hart and Sullivan faces tie. Oh, yes.
01:37:32
Speaker
I thank you very much. Look at that sight. Also, the sun about to set over the Black Hills here to the west of us at WCW's hogwild and the 56th anniversary of this gigantic rally. With me right now, the WCW heavyweight champion of the world.
01:37:47
Speaker
In this beautiful setting, I'm talking about the Giant, along with manager Jimmy Hart, a little bit later on tonight, a title defense. We talk about the sunset, but some say the sun may be setting on World Championship Wrestling because of the new world order, Jimmy. Hogan, tonight's a giant step for you. Don't trip and fall because nobody's going to be there to pick you up.
01:38:11
Speaker
Giant, we talked about this earlier in the live show on TBS. You're going to be facing Hulk Hogan. Here's a man that you idolize. What is going through your mind as we speak at this hour? What's going through my mind right now is a long history of betrayal. When I was a kid, I was by far the biggest Hulk Hogan fan in the world. I believe that. Oh, wait, he doesn't mean size.
01:38:38
Speaker
Hahaha.
01:38:56
Speaker
I'm gonna stick my hand right around your neck. I'm gonna squeeze it to your eyes, pop. And I'm gonna drive your neck right through the ring. Hogan, ashes to ashes and dust to dust. Tonight, I lay the holster to rest.
01:39:14
Speaker
Well that is setting the scene for the big head on collision. As you know the N.W.O. the New World Order is very prominent here tonight. We're going to be seeing the outsiders in a moment as they face Lex and Sting at the big title defense for the giant as he defends against Hulk Hogan.
01:39:31
Speaker
Now, are we still going with the storyline that he's on the giant son at this point? I don't think so, though Hienan does reference Andre a couple of times, but he doesn't reference it in context of, well, there's Andre's kid or something. Yeah, there you go. Talk about what he did to his father. So I think we're kind of like maybe implying it, but never actually outright saying it and just leaving it at Hogan betrayed Giant in some unspecified fashion when Giant was a kid. OK, fair enough.
01:40:01
Speaker
I could kind of take or leave Hart's part of the promo tonight. It's just there to let Giant pose impressively for a little bit longer, I think. But Giant does, again, do a pretty good job here. If plagued by the occasional odd wording, the multiple means of stick it, I think he thought would be clever wordplay, but it ends up sounding a little bit strange. A bit, yeah.
01:40:21
Speaker
But still, the central point that he knew Hogan was evil long before the rest of the world, again, does a lot to help us understand that he is in fact the good guy in this feud, which is essential after he's been a heel for so much of his time in WCW against the face Hogan. So it's not as good as the Nitro segment that we covered last episode, I don't think, but I still found it quite good.
01:40:40
Speaker
I think hearts can kind of weird place to talk about the storyline aspect and the fact that he really can't do his crazy cackling heel character because they're trying to be more generally more serious with promos the flare and sea giant so he can't do his laugh really to accentuate a point anymore or at least end as much as he definitely used to.
01:41:01
Speaker
Yeah, he's in a weird place, which I kind of like that they do this, but it's also understandably difficult on the performers that when the NWO comes in, Face and Heal alike decide to oppose them, but it's not like the Heels all suddenly become good guys. No. I think you were pointing out before we were recording, you still have Heart doing things like taking out a bounty on Chris Benoit and hanging out with the Dungeon of Doom, who are cartoon supervillains, and still being a bad guy.
01:41:31
Speaker
But at the same time, he's fighting the NWO. Yeah. And he's mandating the giant who's the bastion of hope against the. Yeah. Even though the giant also like beat up ice train earlier just for getting in his face. Yeah.
01:41:43
Speaker
Neither of these guys is really portrayed as necessarily a good guy, but they're still portrayed as the protagonist in this feud. Yeah. It's like Payback, I think the Mel Gibson one. Yes. Where you're rooting for the bad guy, but they are definitively better than the guy that they're facing. He just wants his money back. He doesn't want more money than what he should have had. Right. Yeah. So it's Giant we're rooting for because he's facing Hogan.
01:42:07
Speaker
And because he's facing the NWO, he needs to be portrayed as better than or nobler than Hogan. But he's still not portrayed as necessarily a good guy. If Giant suddenly faces Sting, you'll still root for Sting. But if Giant is facing Hogan, you'll root for Giant.
01:42:24
Speaker
The key thing is you need to be able to buy into him. Yeah, you can't do the wrestling thing where like Randy Orton acts the same way for months, they start getting cheered. So now he's a good guy, you know, he's not doing differently at all. Yeah. At any way, shape or form. And that's where I think that really personal touch that Giant gives it on the nitro leading up to this and on this show really, really helps.
01:42:46
Speaker
Even if you don't buy into everything that he does, even if you don't agree with everything that he does on every show that he's on, on this one you get, this is the guy that has been wronged and recognizes the person who wronged him as a danger to everything else. So even though it is
01:43:04
Speaker
him pursuing a personal vengeance, which doesn't necessarily make you a face. The fact that he also does portray it as WCW needs to come together, I am doing this on some level for the company as well, leads you to be able to take him as a face. Absolutely, yeah.
01:43:20
Speaker
It's got to be difficult for the performers finding that right balance, but I think a lot of them actually do quite well. As we mentioned, Flair earlier in the night as well, same kind of thing. He's got this. I'm still actually a bad guy.
Sting and Luger vs. The Outsiders: A Tag Team Showdown
01:43:31
Speaker
You know, I'm still cheating to win against Eddie Guerrero on the show, but at the same time, I am more than anyone here, probably an example of what WCW is. Flair or Sting are the two people that you would say are WCW. Yes. That's an interesting thing during this early NWO period, especially.
01:43:50
Speaker
We go to our seventh match, which is The Outsiders. That's Kevin Nash and Scott Hall versus Sting and Lex Luger in a tag team grudge match. Referee for this one is Nick Patrick. So before we start, I'm a little confused on something and maybe this answered. Did they work for WCW contractually at this point in storyline?
01:44:12
Speaker
Oh, I don't know if that's actually been answered yet. The nearest I can think of is at Great American Bash, Eric asked them, do you work for the WWF? And they say no, because that was a lawsuit because that was to settle the lawsuit. Yes, that because they had a bit of a problem with. Yeah, as we'll discuss more when we cover that show, they debut acting like they're WWF characters because they want you to think that it's an invasion. Yeah.
01:44:38
Speaker
I would imagine that at the very least when we reach the point where whether it's been revealed or not yet, Bischoff is supposed to be aligned with them, then I would say probably you can say he finagled contracts for them. Yeah, for sure.
01:44:51
Speaker
Obviously, National Hall's debut is pretty famous. They would debut in separate weeks showing up, as I said, acting like they were previous characters and setting in motion the big storyline that would cover the next two and or up to four years of company. And as I mentioned earlier, they would show up in the Great Havoc. At one point, they showed up to create Havoc, distracting Luger and Sting during a tag match, cost them the titles. So now there's a personal animosity there besides the fact that in storyline, they're trying to destroy WCW.
01:45:21
Speaker
They're planning to do it as you show up on WWE TV and pay-per-view, making WWE lots of money, which will somehow destroy them. Well, I guess they figure once they win all their matches and get the titles and convince all the WCW wrestlers to come over to them because they're better, then they'll get all that money that they earn WCW. So if you take over the company, then you get its profits, I guess. Yeah. Long-term investment planning, I guess. Yeah. They will have the million dollar man on their side before too long. So that's probably his plot.
01:45:50
Speaker
There you go. And obviously at this point, despite the fact that one of them left for the WPF and only came back what, uh, six months ago, Luger came back in October, right? Uh, bright night for Nitro. Yeah. So he's been back a little less than a year, staying in Luger as both tag champions and the top two faces. They're the sort of front guard against the NWO here. Yeah.
01:46:15
Speaker
Tony says the butterflies are kicking in because now we're seeing matches between WCW and the NWO. Tony talks about the NWO's strength being that they need to fight WCW, which doesn't make a ton of sense. But I think he was going for the idea that the NWO might have recruited WCW guys as they don't yet know who the fourth man is or even a possible fifth, he notes. That's true. NWO theme count, one.
01:46:42
Speaker
Nash and Hall, out first, wear the red and black that will later be associated with the NWO Wolfpack. Yes. Nash's outfit has NW on the back and closed in a circle, so I guess the circle is the O? I guess, yeah.
01:46:58
Speaker
Sting and Luger enter to a man called Sting. Sting has one of his absolute best jackets ever. It's a black background with all sorts of colors coming from the top like feathered wings with glitter everywhere. I love, love, love that jacket. I particularly love the fact that it looks when he first steps out like it's entirely dark, but then the light hits it and that's when you see all the color. Yes. That's so cool. It is second only to the Captain Sting America jacket in my mind.
01:47:28
Speaker
His face paint and oddly headband make up pretty much the same color combo. Yeah, I don't get the headband. I'm not sure what that was about. I think he's going for the biker thing. That's biker to Sting as headband. Yeah, I guess so. I guess there's worse biker looks on the show. That is true. Dusty. Luger, for his part, wears black trunks. Yep. Seriously, how did Sting never get this guy in some glitter? Yeah, right?
01:47:57
Speaker
We get a very nice helicopter shot of the pyro going off for Sting and Luger's entrance, so at least we got some nice photography out of that tremendous expense. Yeah, right. Speaking of tremendous expense, so much pyro. Yes. It's like a nitro opening. We had lots of engine revving again.
01:48:16
Speaker
After the Outsiders play rock-paper-scissors to determine who starts, it ends up Hall vs. Luger. The Hall does chuck his toothpick at Sting, who looks insulted. Hall outwrestles Luger, looking insufferably pleased with himself, and mockingly flexing. Luger finally reverses a hip toss and slams Hall, roaring, and Hall looks less pleased. Nash asks for the tag, and Hall obliges. Dusty's annoyed by the helicopter flyovers as he's losing his voice trying to speak up.
01:48:47
Speaker
Luger tauntingly jiggles his pecs at Nash, but Nash wants Sting. Nash spits on Sting, and Sting asks for the tag, so Luger obliges. Sting spits on Nash. Nash decks him, but Sting decks Nash in return. But Sting can't lift Nash for a slam, so Nash beats him up until Sting fires up and wins a fistfight, bobbing and weaving around Nash's strikes, and slams him for a huge pop. Very nice moment.
01:49:16
Speaker
Nash reverses a corner-to-corner whip and catches Sting trying to go up and over, carrying him with ease and dumping him on the turnbuckle. Nash and Hall trade off beating the ever-loving crap out of Sting. Hall's punches in particular are so good. He's a good snap, yeah. Heenan says he's enjoying the match so much he doesn't care who wins. Tony and Dusty immediately call him on that. And Heenan stammers that he hopes WCW wins. Yeah.
01:49:43
Speaker
Nash fakes letting Sting go for a tag, then clotheslines him down. Luger death glares at him. The beatdown continues and Hall catches a Sting crossbody into a fall-away slam for two. Sting is just getting decimated by the Outsiders. Luger distracts Patrick by protesting more than once.
01:50:02
Speaker
Weird spot, as Nash goes for what looks like it's gonna be a big boot in the corner, but then it hits more like it's a splash. Yeah. I'm not sure if it was just the camera angle, but it looked like he didn't quite decide which one he was gonna do. I bet, yeah. Sting and Nash knock heads on a whip. Nash goes down and Sting wobbles and falls, headbutting Nash in the crotch. Sting's favorite spot.
01:50:24
Speaker
Nash tags Hall, who continues the beating, as Hienan accidentally cheers for Hall, but rapidly backpedals. Two count off punches, but stink back body drops out of Hall's Outsiders Edge powerbomb.
01:50:37
Speaker
By the way, he's a little too early on the counter, you notice that? He's like front-flipping himself almost. Oh, really? I didn't get it. It's a very slight thing. He looks really excited to take the front flip, I guess. Hienan again cheers for Hall to make the tag, and Tony aggressively corrects him. Sting drags himself to his feet, stumbles, and falls, but tags Luger on the way down.
01:51:03
Speaker
Luger actually jump kicks Hall over the ropes, which I have never seen Luger do before, then destroys both outsiders with clotheslines and charging forearms, screaming like a banshee. When Nash stunned in the corner, Sting hits a stinger splash and takes him outside, putting on the Scorpion Deathlock as Luger powerslams Hall and goes for the torture rack. But he hits Nick Patrick with Hall's boot.
01:51:31
Speaker
Patrick wobbles, and visibly takes aim at Luger's leg, but doesn't have the angle right, so he walks around as Luger repeatedly tries to lift Hall, stalling for time, and falls into, read intentionally forearm strikes, Luger's knee. Luger falls and Hall pins him, and Patrick fast counts three for the NWO win.
01:51:56
Speaker
I suspect that was supposed to go a lot smoother. Yeah. Something's just kind of wrong on the angle the first time Patrick goes down. And Luger knows he's supposed to get hit, so he kind of stalls. Probably doesn't want to actually lift Hall fully, as that'd be kind of dangerous when he falls. Mm-hmm, yeah. So Patrick just has to visibly, intentionally wander around and line up a shot on Luger. To be fair, even his first attempt kind of looked more aimed than I think was intended. But with him having to re-aim, man, that looks awkward and obviously blatantly intentional.
01:52:26
Speaker
I'm afraid they didn't try doing the get your hands and knees spit and they fall over him. Yeah. That would have worked. If they thought to do a reconfiguration after the first one failed, that would have been a good thing to go with. At that point, you're like, Oh God, the spot went wrong. I got to make it work. I sympathize. I sympathize. But man, it's, it's probably the funniest rough bump that we've seen. Perhaps the funniest rough bump in WCW. Yeah. It'll take a lot to get over that. Yeah, for sure.
01:52:53
Speaker
Tony tries to sell it as Patrick Stumbling, which is clearly what it was actually supposed to look like. Dusty calls Patrick out on his fast count, but Hienen disagrees. N.W.O. theme count, two. Patrick stumbles comedically around and raises the N.W.O.'s hands in victory, then makes his exit as a ticked-off sting, checks on Luger. Thoughts on this one?
01:53:16
Speaker
It's a really good match, I thought. I like the fact that, again, we only have two tag matches on this show. They don't quite tell the same story, which is a good thing, because that's a problem that we have with tag matches, this. Yes. And they always have one story and they tell it like five times, six times, whatever it is on this album.
01:53:33
Speaker
In this case, you still have the sneaky heals, controlling things, but there's a little extra to it because they're definitely, at least in their control environment, they're a little more powerful, I think is the idea. Nash can really hit you hard and Hall can hit you really hard.
01:53:50
Speaker
The real star here, I think, is Sting. Sting does the face and peril spot. Obviously, at this point, he's had seven, eight, nine years practice, maybe almost 10 years at this point. The worst thing he does, arguably, is he does the stumble towards the bad guy's corner thing twice. It still looks good both times, but it's like, Caleb, you did that again.
01:54:14
Speaker
Did you forget where Hall was? I mean, remember, this is staying the most trusting man in the universe. So he just assumes anyone at the corner is there to help him. That's true. Yeah. It's funny because the guy who looks the best and the worst in his match is lure. After the initial bit where Hall wrestles them, he looks really strong. Yeah. His ending flurry of offense is some of the best Luger offense we've yet seen. Yeah. Especially that screaming clothesline. I mean, literally screaming clothesline that he does to Nash.
01:54:43
Speaker
Yeah, because much times the camera is farther away. Like it's the hard camera, not the closer cameraman, like the decky Crockett on the ringside camera. And the hard camera catches him yelling. That's pretty strong. Yeah. Though speaking of, I mean, this entire match felt loud to me. Yeah. Luger, obviously. I mean, Luger's always loud. But there's a bit where Paul visibly calls a spy. He doesn't give him the boot. There's a lot more volume from this match. So I wondered if they just actually intentionally upped it to make it sound more epic, maybe. Could be, yeah.
01:55:12
Speaker
I mean, it's also possible that they just had a sound guy that had no idea what he was doing, because it's WCW, but it's also very possible. Anything technical that can go wrong, that would have passed WCW to do it. Yeah.
01:55:24
Speaker
But yeah, Luger looked really strong in the beginning to the point where he has to be out of the mat for the prolonged sting and peril section. I don't think I should just call it that at this point, not a Facebook. It's the sting and peril. Yes. So he's out of the mat. Then he comes back. He looks really strong. But then because of the confusing nature of the finish and the botched nature, he goes down to a referee chop blocking him.
01:55:49
Speaker
It is a fast count. At least Hall does virtually fall on top of him and it is a fast count. So you kind of have a few excuses there, but yeah, it is a little bit. And admittedly the chop block, as shown by many, many Ric Flair matches is the single deadliest move in the history of wrestling short of hitting someone with a high heel shoe. Yeah, that's true. I mean, Luger by all rights should be down going on my knee, my knee, my knee for the next hour. So we had yet to establish the side chamber as a metadata weapon in wrestling. Yeah.
01:56:18
Speaker
The fact that he's not still out there when giant and Hogan are fighting later is, is a testament to the fact that it was just a referee that did it to him. If it was an actual wrestler, they'd have to drag him out of the ring.
01:56:31
Speaker
Yeah, I thought this was a very fun, high-energy tag match with a simple outline, honestly, but tons of character. They didn't do anything actually complicated here, but boy, did they make everything look huge. Hall's punches are real, real standouts. Every one of them feels powerful. And Sting, I will agree with you, is the star of the show here.
01:56:54
Speaker
being an exceptional face imperil, getting great reactions for all of his comebacks, and his collapsing tag to Luker is brilliant. Excellently timed and done. Obviously, we still prefer the Commando role to tag. Well, yeah, that's the best, but that falling tag is great. Yes. Just how he actually looks like he is losing consciousness as he tags him. Yeah. Just great.
01:57:17
Speaker
Everybody really brought out the emotion here, with the NWO at their disrespectful best, and Luger and Sting giving them death glares over and over. It's actually a pretty standard tag match in design, but the performances elevate it massively.
01:57:32
Speaker
shame about the ending. It does not ruin the match, but it is definitely clearly awkward and unable to be covered or disguised in any way. I would imagine the plan was always going to be to make Patrick the end of duo's heal ref at some point, but with this any hope of it being any kind of slow burn or mystery is pretty much screwed. Yeah. As I'll discuss in the follow-up, they lead into it pretty quickly. Yeah.
01:57:55
Speaker
But aside from the messed up ending, this was lots of fun. And I think does a ton to build up the NWO guys. I mean, obviously they've already had one match before this where they got built up pretty good. But this match, I think establishes that's not a fluke. These guys are devastatingly powerful. They owe that a lot to sting. Absolutely. Yes.
01:58:19
Speaker
So, Class 28, which again is on the Thursday after this show, but here's a really weird feel when you watch the Nitro, because they're trying to give you like the fallout of Hogwild, but also quickly push another show right away. That's true. It's so, so rushed.
01:58:37
Speaker
I feel for him that I have to do these stories so quickly class 28 there's a triple threat tag team match where Lou Grinting try to regain the titles kind of forgotten match because it's not a pay-per-view okay and obviously all four men would be involved the main event on the very next show which of course is fall brawl where we get war games yes
01:58:58
Speaker
Oh, and, um, on Nick Patrick thing. So on the follow-up nitro, there's another tag match involving the outsiders, Sting and Luger, but essentially a soft rematch of this one. The finish involves Sting going for his Stinger Splash on Hall in the corner. And this is where the camera angle looks like he sort of moves out of the way, but when they play the replay, it's visible that Nick Patrick grabs his arm and pulls it out of the corner.
01:59:26
Speaker
So they pretty much immediately go to Nick Patrick is in fact a heel. Yes. We get more shots of sturges at night.
Hogan's Heel Turn and NWO's Ascendancy
01:59:34
Speaker
Actually mostly just one street with a bunch of motorcycles sitting there. And Tony quickly advertises fall brawl as we go to our final match.
01:59:44
Speaker
Hollywood Hulk Hogan versus the Giant with the mouth of the South, Jimmy Hart, for Giant's WCW World Heavyweight Championship. The referee for this one is Randy Anderson.
01:59:58
Speaker
Hogan, as part of the storyline to get the title off of him towards the end of 1995, they had Demi Heart turn heel and join the dungeon of doom. There's this very crazy situation where Hogan loses the title via DQ. Basically, it's implied that Heart did something with the contract for the match where Hogan could lose the title by DQ and then gets Hogan DQ'd. Yeah, because he's his manager when he does the whole thing.
02:00:23
Speaker
Giant is part of the engine of doom and eventually post uncensored, he wins the world title. So now he's a heel champion and he's that way for a couple of months on a show we've covered. I think it's Slamboree, it's him and Sting I believe. Yes, where Luger blocks the table, Giant's going to choke Slam, Sting through with Jimmy Hart's body. That's the one, yeah. Yeah.
02:00:44
Speaker
The big change is Duraline. After that is, of course, bash to the beach. Hogan runs out, realizes he's the third man. Technically, that match doesn't actually have a finish. That's what people kind of forget about. That doesn't matter, I guess, long term. So now Hogan is against the company. And if you think about it, it sort of makes sense because he is an outsider. He just been there for a year and a half, almost two years at that point, whereas opposed to two, three months.
02:01:11
Speaker
But, and that plays more into the story they're trying to go, especially initially, that Hall and Nash are from the other company. So, of course, Hogan, the former face of that company, being their leader, doesn't make sense to that at all. I think he even plays that up in his first NWO promo. Yeah. And he actually says, like, who else did you think it was going to be or something along that line? I know where these guys come from better than anyone or something. Yeah, I believe that's what he does. So it actually, yeah, I'm like, yeah, it does make sense.
02:01:38
Speaker
It is funny you talk about that comes off of the goofiness. He wins this ridiculous eight on two tag match triple cage. He kind of quietly goes away from it to think they shouldn't move your TV show or something. And then his return is running out and turning heel. Yeah. Posey in the North nerves he was backstage ever before the turn. He didn't think it would work and you couldn't believe that he could ruin his career forever. I mean, you got to figure the guy
02:02:03
Speaker
One, hasn't been a heel for like over a decade. Yeah, it's like 83, I think. And two, had his biggest success after turning to face. So you're asking him to go back to something that he last was before he really made it big. This isn't like a Ric Flair situation where he's been face and heel and face and heel and been in the spotlight the entire time. This is you're taking a guy who is famous
02:02:30
Speaker
pretty much purely as a face and saying, not only turn heel, but turn heel in a huge, massive way where you basically disavow everything that made you you for over a decade. That is a gigantic thing, so I can see him being scared to death about what's going to happen with it.
02:02:50
Speaker
And from a financial standpoint, he's giving up all of the Hogan foam finger, the shirt and everything as well. People aren't going to buy, you know, as far as he knows anyway, like this is before we know the NWO shirts are going to sell like hotcakes. Yeah. So he's like, how much am I going to lose doing this? Yeah. Yeah. That is a very fascinating thing to think about the mindset they had to be in going into making this gigantic change.
02:03:13
Speaker
Post-turn, he makes the point of challenging Giant for the title, explaining that they're the NWO, they're going to take over and destroy WCW, you have to have the top championship for that. The Giant for his part accepts the championship match because he's a face and he has to accept anything the bad guys offer him. Right. Yeah. I mean, every face must be cripplingly stupid, especially in regards of taking title matches when they shouldn't. Exactly.
02:03:39
Speaker
Yeah, so it is interesting that Giant actually is the guy who last took the title off of Hogan. That's true, yeah. But did so by nefarious means. Yes. NWO theme count three. Michael Buffer comes out to do the ring introductions and the theme stops. Buffer gets a cheap pop praising the biker rally or a cheap rev, I guess. Yeah.
02:04:04
Speaker
Buffer builds up the importance of this battle, how the WCW championship could be stolen by an outside organization. Let's get ready to rumble. Tony points out the bikers are already doing just that.
02:04:17
Speaker
NWO theme count four. During Hogan's entrance, Buffer specifically calls out the shift from his normal yellow and red color scheme to the NWO's black and white, and goes over the storyline of Hogan turning his back on WCW. He dubs Hogan, Mr. Hollywood. I'm glad they went with just Hollywood later, it's a little smoother. Giant comes out to the Dungeon of Doom theme, which is not really a face theme.
02:04:45
Speaker
I actually would have had him come out to Hogan's old American maid. Oh, yeah. Buffer dubs him the most imposing physical specimen in the history of all sports and the most dangerous man on planet Earth. Honestly, I won't really disagree with either of them. Now, at this point, Tyson was trying to do that at the latter half with dangerous man to plan the thing. That's why they co-opted a bit with Steve Austin. Yeah. Yeah.
02:05:11
Speaker
Giant channels his inner Dolph Lundgren, telling Hogan he'll break him. Hogan gets the heck out of the ring when Giant enters. Hogan stalls, refusing to enter, and acts like he's gonna take a walk, but Giant stops Anderson from counting him out. Hienan calls Hogan scum, and Tony is surprised how cowardly Hogan is acting. Hienan says he's a scam artist.
02:05:36
Speaker
Hogan finally gets in and lands punches, but Giant just absorbs them, so back out Hogan goes. And so it goes for a while, as Hogan will come in, try a move or two, and run away when it doesn't work, yelling at the crowd. He's pulling a Scott Steiner here. Despite that, you can hear some crowd members chanting for Hogan. Hogan is really trying to play the heel, but the bikers don't seem to get it.
02:05:59
Speaker
You know, the part of the problem is he's dressing in black and he's like a skull and everything. That is true. That is true. He is dressed more like a biker than the giant. Yeah. It is the wrong show to debut your looks like that. Yeah. Yeah. I do also gather these were not probably constant WCW viewers. No. So they might just honestly not have been aware that he turned.
02:06:21
Speaker
And like you said as well, he's so associated with being a face. Yeah. Plus the actual advertising for the show has Hogan in the red and yellow posing all smiles because they made that poster well before they did the turn. Correct. Yes.
02:06:38
Speaker
So yeah, you're like, so all the advertising for the show has presented as Hogan as a face. And these guys may not have watched WCW that much. They might not be aware of the heel turn. I will forgive the crowd for this reaction, actually, to some extent. Looking back, they really should have made a new version after the term with like the NWA spray paint just over him. Oh my gosh, that'd be great. Yeah. Tests of strength and Hogan kicks giant knock him to his knees to cheers. Mm hmm.
02:07:04
Speaker
Giant is nearly as tall as Hogan even on his knees. Yes.
02:07:09
Speaker
Giant powers back and works a wrist lock, and kids in the crowd do start chanting for the Giant. Hogan uses the hair to more cheers, and works the arm, levering Giant down for one, and does finally get some sustained boos from a surfboard stretch. Hogan keeps working the arm and using closed fist punches and hair pulling, but when Anderson catches Hogan, Giant pulls Hogan's hair to take him down, and lands big headbutts, knocking Hogan out of the ring.
02:07:36
Speaker
Dusty advises Giant to retch over and grab him. Tony is greatly amused. Hogan drags Giant out and rams him to the ring post and uses several back rakes with gloves on. Guess it's friction burn maybe? Giant sends him to the ring post.
02:08:00
Speaker
Back in, Giant gets two with a backbreaker, but Hogan dodges an elbow drop and punches him. But, Giant hulks up. He does. You! Chop, chop, chop, whip, big boot, and Giant signals for the Chokeslam. Suddenly, Scott Hall enters the ring and climbs up top, but Giant Flare Karmas him down and Chokeslams him. Anderson starts trying to roll Hall out of the ring.
02:08:28
Speaker
Nash appears and attacks with Hart's megaphone, but Giant chokeslams him too. But, Hogan clocks Giant with the world title for the three count and the win. A unfortunately significant portion of the crowd still cheers that. Get a clue, guys! At the very least, the guys who were just fighting Sting, who you loved, are helping Hogan. So he's probably not the good guy.
02:08:58
Speaker
As Hogan celebrates with the belt with a revived Holland Nash. Thoughts on this one?
02:09:06
Speaker
So, uh, stalling, lots of stalling. The thing that I don't quite get with match, and I know you'll discuss it, it's part of this transition for him working heel style for the first time in like over 10 years at this point. So it's not like I don't, I don't get it, but on his surface, the match form is so weird.
02:09:29
Speaker
Once he stops rolling away and trying to escape, the second Hogan gets any advantage, some of the giant is debilitated. Just squeezing on his wrist and slightly pointing downwards at an angle makes him cry out in pain and lose all feeling at his legs and he can't move.
02:09:46
Speaker
Yeah, it's a hard balance in this match that I think they're trying to figure out. Part of it may be that they don't want to fully lose the Hulk Hogan character. So when Hogan does a test of strength on you and squeezes your hands, you yell out and scream. That's what you do. And even if you're going to fight back now because Hogan's actually the heel and you're going to win the test of strength, ultimately, you kind of still sell it for a while for him.
02:10:13
Speaker
I can kind of understand that, but I also agree. Yeah, it kind of gives it a weird atmosphere. The giant is settling a little more than you expect until suddenly he's not. Yeah. Going back to the Flair Guerrero match, presumably knowing their histories, it's a map probably mostly called in the ring. Right.
02:10:32
Speaker
But Flair doesn't work in a heel style so long and so well that Flair calling a heel match to the ring feels right and is done well and it elevates to the guy. At this point, it's Hogan clearly still calling the match because to be fair, Giant is less than a year into his pro wrestling career. Right, right, yeah.
02:10:50
Speaker
So it's not like I don't blame them backstage going, yeah, Hogan, you've worked a main event by almost 14 years now at this point, depending if you go back to a way style. True. Hey, you should call this match and you should decide this match place out. But
02:11:04
Speaker
He makes a lot of bad calls. And again, I think this is just the thing that we talked about before is Hogan is used to being a super face. And that is how he knows how to call a match. Because I think actually it was fairly early in his career as well when he was a heel. Yes. So Hogan may never have actually called a match as a heel.
02:11:25
Speaker
Because, yeah, when he would have been a heel in the A.W.A., he would have been Nick Bachwickel, presumably, calling the match in the ring. Right, yeah. Bernganier calling the match in the ring, yeah. Yeah, most likely. So you get some awkwardness there, I think, that is definitely understandable. Right. But there's two levels that you can kind of view this match on. One is it's not really a great match, but two is you kind of understand why it's not really a great match. Right. I think, for me, there's a bunch of factors in it. It's not just one thing that makes it like that, though.
02:11:53
Speaker
And as you also hinted as well, I mean, Giant is very inexperienced. Well, he's a tremendously talented performer. He is nowhere near experienced enough to call the spots himself. Right. So you've got the very experienced Hogan.
02:12:09
Speaker
but not used to calling a match in this standpoint. And then the giant, even if he did have the knowledge, perhaps, I think he's early enough in his career where you would be nervous about suggesting something different. That's what I was going to say. Yeah. Because the first time for us on the podcast covering heel Hogan match circuit 96 Hogan and Piper.
02:12:29
Speaker
For one, obviously they worked together with, he'll face them in reverse, but they worked together so many times. And Piper is at this point wrestling for like 25 years. If Hogan calls Matt to the ring and he disagrees, he has the experience and the personality. And the long running relationship as well. Right. To go, no, I don't do this because that'll look bad or make me look bad or that's short than this, what have you. But I will say looking back at it, especially when we rewatch it,
02:12:57
Speaker
Booking-wise, that way the match plays out called in the ring, it reminds me of another Hogan match. That one's a bit later. The Sting one? Yes, you saw that too. I will say I don't entirely agree, but I somewhat agree. There's points, right? Yeah, I think the main thing is the start of this one is better.
02:13:16
Speaker
Yeah. Well, better and worse, worse for the level of stalling, but better because Hogan does genuinely make himself look terrified of giant. He does. And the first several times he does offense on the giant, it does nothing. So it's not until really the test of strength spot that you start getting a little bit too much selling from the giant probably. Right. Yeah. So I do take your point on that, but I feel like there's a little more making the giant look good. Yeah. This one.
02:13:45
Speaker
Yeah, I think long term, when we've covered more Howard Hogan matches, I think maybe I'll have more comparison. Like, you know, we'll get Hogan Savage a bunch of times, and Hogan staying at different points in their career. So maybe for contrast, but I was getting a lot of that vibe with mostly the middle part when he's controlling everything, which seems like this weird paradigm shift in Mentum, where once he holds him down, like giant can't do anything.
02:14:12
Speaker
A lot of him controlling his holds, and that may just be him thinking, okay, well, when I was a face, what did the heel do to me in their control segment? Well, they tended to block on some kind of hold, especially if he's thinking of like brick flare backstage. I can see that also being a thing that if you're a super face thinking, what do heels do? You think of yell at the crowd, stall for time, retreat in cowardice, and use holds to work a body part.
02:14:42
Speaker
And so I think that may also be where some of the imbalance comes from is Hogan's chosen holds are ones that require a giant to be down. Yeah. And therefore giant ends up spending a lot of his time kind of downed and with a hold on him. I don't necessarily think the intent is to portray that Hogan's actually that dominating over the giant. I think so. Yeah. Hogan just honestly is trying to think of what do heels do and doesn't have that much in his arsenal for it.
02:15:08
Speaker
We're in the Sting match. I agree with you. I think that's him going into business for himself in a large bar, as we discussed extensively on that episode. But in this one, I really do blame more his... Yeah, it's not a one-to-one thing, but I was getting that vibe a bit in the middle. No, I get it, yeah. And to use a statement I always never say, to be fair to Hogan, comparing Flair Guerrero to Giant Hogan,
02:15:34
Speaker
Flairiken suplex and throw around at a much easier than I can throw a giant based on both his size and experience taking bones and right Yeah, yeah in that kind of thing The other of no critique briefly in this is the referee
02:15:51
Speaker
Hall and Nash are both in the theater, both lying down in and around the ring area. Hall especially is still down in the ring, I believe. Yeah, Anderson is literally trying to roll him out of the ring the entire time Giant is fighting off Nash. Right, right. But once Hogan has Giant down from the belt shot, Anderson literally is going over the prone body of someone in the ring to kind of pinfall.
02:16:11
Speaker
It definitely is one of those, why the heck is none of this a DQ situations? Yeah, for sure. Not like 98 where they just go, eh, let it go. Yeah, if you had done it where Giant disposes of Hall and Nash and they both roll out, then maybe. But yeah, it is another one of those. The ref turns around, what the heck do you think was going on? Right. Also, Giant chokeslamming Kevin Nash at the very least behind your back clearly would have to make so much noise and cause the ring to shake. Yes, yeah, right.
02:16:40
Speaker
Like, you clearly know what was happening. Right. Like, why don't Sting and Luger run out as well? Exactly. Given how they were just slighted. This is one of many times that we will encounter the whole, where's the W.C.W. guys thing?
02:16:54
Speaker
I don't mind it as much on this one as on later ones, or at least I can forgive it on this one. Cause I think you have to have the NWO look like they were in control of the situation here. And also in fairness, giant gets to look like it took the entire NWO to take him down as well. But I will also admit it is still part of this very long running. Why are you guys not joining together? Like you keep saying you have to.
02:17:22
Speaker
To your point, I could see if Giant is fending them off, they come out, and the four of them are fighting ringside. Dash distracts Neferee, so Hogan grabs the belt. Okay, yeah, I could see that. Giant still disposes of Hall and Nash on his own at first. Sting and Luger come out to help manage them, basically. Some version of that, I think, works. Yeah, I can see that. That'd be fine. It's not really a good match. It's not actually awful, but it's definitely on the lower end of the quality scale, but as we said, it's kind of understandable why.
02:17:51
Speaker
The weird crowd reactions don't help at all. No. The kids, blessedly, at some point, start thinking, oh, this giant guy's kind of cool, and start cheering for him. But everyone else is kind of still not clued in, despite the fact that Hogan is doing everything he possibly can to look like a heel. I did find some good points to the match. Giant looks quite strong overall. I agree. Hogan definitely has to cheat in order to get him down at various points. And Giant's hulk up spot is a genuine laugh out loud moment. It's good, yeah.
02:18:37
Speaker
Yeah, at least he does go into the I'm signaling for the choke slam in almost exactly the same rhythm as Hogan would jump to hit the leg drop. That's fair. So he makes it part of that sequence. Yeah, which I like. I actually liked him replacing the normal punches with chops as well. That was like I'm doing the Hulk up, but I'm doing my Hulk up. Sure. Yeah. But yeah, as a match, this was pretty dull. But as a spectacle and a historical curiosity, it's actually kind of neat to watch.
02:18:46
Speaker
I can only imagine the smiles on all their faces when they came up with that spot.
02:19:04
Speaker
It's aided by the commentary team doing a really good job of talking up just how strange it is to see Hogan act like this. So I can't say that it's actually an entertaining watch, but I'm actually still glad I watched it, if that makes any sense. Yeah, yeah. We do a series about parallel universes where things happen differently. Yeah. So going back a bit, Giant wins a number of contenders match at Uncensored in March of this year, 96, defeating Loch Ness.
02:19:34
Speaker
And then he gets his title match against Rick Flair when it's a title. And that gets him in this position where he's champion going against Hogan and Hogan's turn and takes the title from him. Somewhere in the multiverse, there is a universe where that situation is reversed and Loch Ness is your world champion for like three months and Loch Ness is coming in and loses to Hogan.
02:19:59
Speaker
There is no way that that match even reaches this level of quality. No disrespect intended to Loch Ness. He was middle aged and 500 pounds. That's not his fault. Giant is definitively better, I think, as a big man at this point. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It definitely would be a better match. It would be an interesting match. It would be interesting, yes.
02:20:22
Speaker
The NWO's celebrate, as the commentators bemoan the fate of the title, and Giant lies unconscious in the ring. Trash rains down, so some fans have finally figured out that they don't like Hogan. There you go. All three NWO guys hold up the belt together, which would have been an awesome shot if WSW had thought to shoot it from the hard camera. Oh. Suddenly, the booty man, Ed Leslie, appears on the ramp, with a couple guys carrying a cake with birthday wishes for Hogan.
02:20:52
Speaker
Leslie puts a wrapped present in the cake itself, which seems a bit unsanitary. Yes. One of the cake carriers has a University of Michigan ball cap on. I wonder if he's a Steiners fan. Oh, I didn't know that. The Steiners joined the NWO. Not yet.
02:21:08
Speaker
Tony is somehow surprised that Hogan's longtime best friend might have considered joining the NWO. Yeah. It's like being surprised when Arne Anderson supports Ric Flair. Yeah, right. On the follow-up nitro after the backstage assault, there's a match with Bootyman. And I want to say it's Benoit. And afterwards, they keep beating him up because it's Hogan Association. Ah, okay. And they're cutting up promo while they're beating up in the back of it. It's kind of funny, honestly.
02:21:38
Speaker
At least you can argue from Ed Leslie's character point of view. I didn't become a bad guy. These guys booted me out. Here is my best friend who I have no reason not to trust. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hogan, get some microphone. Yo, yo, yo! The N.W.O. is the way to go! Word life reminded me of yay, yay, yay for the A.W.A.
02:22:09
Speaker
Yo outsiders, the booty man knows it's Hulk Hogan's birthday, brother. And you know what? Now I'm going to wish a happy birthday to me, brother. Yo booty man, what a surprise.
02:22:30
Speaker
Oh, so I just want to say, first of all, congratulations on being the new N.W.O. World Heavyweight Champion! Yes, it's WCW Heavyweight Champion. Very simply put, that is a falsehood right there. In just a second, it's my pleasure to wish you, brother, a happy birthday in front of all these people at Starches.
02:22:57
Speaker
Well, where's the members of the Dungey-Doomity need him? Yeah. And last but not least, I just want to put my hand out and thank you for being there for me for 22 years, man. Congratulations, champ. Now we have a... No, it's not the booty, man. I love you, man, like you're my own blood.
02:23:24
Speaker
You know something, man? For 20 years, brother. You and I have been hanging together. And to have you here with an NWM shirt on is something special. But you know something, brothers? Now that I'm the champion in Denver, Colorado, Rick Flair,
02:23:44
Speaker
He was gonna get the beating of his life, but you know something? There's something we all gotta learn here, man. The reason the NWO was so powerful, the reason we're gonna make Ted Turner look like a second class citizen. We're gonna wipe out the WCW as if we never mixed business.
02:24:03
Speaker
with friendship or pleasure. And you know something, Ric Flair, we attacked the WCW for a reason, not because R.N. Anderson was there. And so you showed your down card, brother. You got a soft spot dude for R.N. Anderson. Well, this is my best friend here. And the one thing he's been driving me crazy about is the NWO man. And now that we've got the mission accomplished, we want to tell you one thing, brother. They do not have- We never.
02:24:32
Speaker
ever mixed business with friendship, but this is a special occasion, man. And we got a surprise for you. You know what, brother, we got a surprise. Hold on.
02:24:43
Speaker
What in the world is going on? Get him, boys! Let's get him! Can you believe this? Unbelievable! Unbelievable! That's the true color, Greg. This is what the end of the world is all about. Backstabbing, lying. Holy moly, brother. Holy moly. Making examples of people... 20 years, he said he's that best friend. Let me tell you something, Greg Flair.
02:25:10
Speaker
That is business, brother. And that was my best friend. If I'll do that to my best friend, what am I gonna do to you and Denver Colorado? The NWL Rules, brother. Hulk Hogan is a very dangerous, sick individual. You're better on that. He's a very dangerous individual. What's this? What do they have?
NWO's Impact and Hogan's Betrayal
02:25:43
Speaker
Hogan does take Leslie's present, which turns out to be a can of spray paint. Hogan spray paints the title with the letters, N-W-O. Interestingly, the normal N-W-O logo has the W capitalized and the N and the O lowercase, but Hogan spray paint job reverses that. Yes, he does.
02:26:04
Speaker
Hogan poses with the desecrated belt, gives us a whatcha gonna do, and he, Hall and Nash walk off. Giant is still unconscious in the ring. I'm pretty sure he's just having a nap at this point. Yeah. This is a good promo segment that's almost great. Yeah. The general idea, Hogan turning on Leslie to get rid of any perceived weaknesses is terrific. Yeah. But the execution's a little awkward.
02:26:34
Speaker
Hogan actually hits the absolute perfect line midway through to do the sudden attack when he says that we never mix business with friendship. The first time he says that feels like it should be when the attack happens. Yeah, right?
02:26:47
Speaker
But he goes on after it. I kind of wonder if he suddenly realized he forgot the lines about Arne Anderson and needed to work them in, because that was such a natural place for the attack otherwise. But then even when he repeats the line later, they don't actually just go right to the attack. Hogan goes over and cues Nash. So I guess the idea is that even they didn't know he was going to do that to Leslie, but it robs the moment of some of the impact it could have had, having this lengthy start and stop kind of build.
02:27:16
Speaker
That said, it does not rob it of all impact. And Hogan's promo is otherwise quite good. And of course, the spray painting of the big gold belt is such an iconic moment that just drives home once and for all how much the NWO wants to just erase WCW and how little respect they hold for the company.
02:27:36
Speaker
When Leslie comes out with the guys holding the cake, they put the cake balanced in the corner of the ring on the ropes, the box. And I know from having seen this show before, it doesn't fall over, but I'm watching, expecting the thing to fall over any second now.
02:27:52
Speaker
That is the bad place to put that was yeah, it's actually funny watching the entire time cuz Leslie brings it to the brain slides it in Nash picks it up then yes And so Nash like carries around like we're gonna put this thing and finally sets it on the turnbuckle walks away for a moment looks back and sees that a cameraman has walked up towards the Turnbuckle seen the cake there and not been able to get his camera in position because of it So it kind of like goes over there
02:28:17
Speaker
Pretends like he's posing triumphantly and then picks the cake up and sheepishly moves it elsewhere in the ring. Yeah. If you haven't seen this promo, watch it without doing this first because sure. Yeah. But then go back and watch it again and watch Nash the entire time because it's hilarious watching poor Dash try to be cake management the entire time. Yeah.
02:28:37
Speaker
Yeah, I thought this was good overall, but just could have been better with a little bit more polish and like they needed to kind of take a second pass on their planning for it and they would have gotten the perfect promo. I think I'm trying to whether or not this would have worked if they just end with the title victory and do this say on nitro. They go to work. I think it could, but I actually do think this is a great way to end the night.
02:29:01
Speaker
With the exception that I would have liked if they had Giant not be there unconscious the entire time, that is one other critique I will give. This is like five to seven minutes. Giant needs medical attention if he's out that long. That feels like it kind of devalues him a little bit. He did take a belt shot, but I mean that level of unconscious just feels odd.
02:29:22
Speaker
Yeah, we'll discuss this moment that they changed the belt from gold to lead next way into why he's out so long. I can see that. Yeah. I think if they'd done like he gets hit with the belt, he lies there for a little bit. And then before Leslie fully starts his promo hauling Nash, knock him out of the ring. And yeah, they could have used the two guys that were sent out with the cake to carry giant away. I think you'd need more than those two guys. Well, I mean, like his arms and their shoulder, not literally carry him out. Yeah.
02:29:54
Speaker
As is mentioned in the promo, Hogan immediately has a title defense, which is kind of crazy thing about on the clash 28 show where he's funding the title against then us champion, Rick flair. Okay. Both tiles are not in the line just for the record. We're not repeating WrestleMania six. Okay. Which gets my point about going back a little bit earlier about the us title. He told him for Hogan's title and he's like, Oh yeah, most of this title, but whatever he ever says that that's kind of the feel you can get.
02:30:23
Speaker
And of course, Hogan would be involved in the War Games match at Fall Brawl, which is integral to the storyline. Okay. As for Giant, just a quick side here. Before Fall Brawl, Giant has already turned heel. Yeah. Do you join the NWO?
02:30:38
Speaker
That is the real, real negative with this. I don't know if this has ever been confirmed, but from what I understand, they had thought they were going to get somebody else. The British Bulldog. British Bulldog. That's the story they always tell you. Yeah, that's what I've always heard is they thought they were going to get British Bulldog. They couldn't, and therefore they went for something else to be a surprise, and Giant was their best thought, which I don't think was a particularly good thought.
02:31:03
Speaker
Don't get me wrong, Giant can do an awesome heal. Yeah. But I think he was just starting to come into his own as starting to convert to face. Yeah. And there's an alternate universe where Giant is just solid face all the way through 1996 and 97. And that is a genuinely fascinating thing to consider. And that makes his moment from Slambry97 with him and Luger more and more impactful. No, Spring Stampede in the 90s. Oh, I'm starting to think that you're right. Yeah, I think that makes it even better, yeah.
02:31:31
Speaker
Do you recall from when you watch Nitro, what his reason for becoming a heel was? Was it just money? Yes. Yeah. I mean, admittedly, he is like portrayed as a selfish guy for the rest of the year before this point. So that's not that. Yeah. Surprising. But yeah. Got to get the cigarette money, I guess. Tony says he doesn't know what's going to happen from this moment on. And it's scary for everyone in WCW. We get another helicopter shot to blow more money and go back to the commentary team.
02:32:00
Speaker
Tony calls the spray painting of the belt sickening. Dusty says it was an unbelievable situation seeing that belt, which he has worn, spray painted NWO. By no means is this over, Dusty says. And he asks, as we have, where was WCW when Giant needed them? Hienan goes to say something, but Tony signs off, telling him over his protest that they'll hear what he has to say on Nitro.
02:32:28
Speaker
We get a video of a motorcycle wheel spinning during the credits, and Hogwild 1996 is done. So overall thoughts on Hogwild 1996? If this was a one-off show or a two-off show, it's a very fun, unique idea. They're this very different environment, very different crowd. There's a whole feel. I said they spend a lot of money on helicopters and pyro for this thing.
02:32:57
Speaker
It's a show where there's a lot of good matches. I don't think there's really any bad matches in the show. There's matches that there's not much to say about like Norden and Ice Train, or ones that just they're kind of just there, unfortunately, like Medusa and Akano. But yeah, it's a good show quality wise.
02:33:16
Speaker
I'd say if you want to show a different feel, it's definitely there. It's a good mix of quality and it's obviously historical importance. It's the crowning of individual world champion Hulk Hogan.
Hogwild 1996: A Unique and Historical Showcase
02:33:27
Speaker
It's definitely historically notable. It's an enjoyable show other than some discomfort with the crowded points. Even just the fact that they aren't clear on the storylines, apparently, of all the people. It's definitely an interesting show. It's worth watching, I'd say.
02:33:41
Speaker
It's interesting, isn't it, how historically important it is considering how weird experimental show it feels? Yeah. I'm not used to big notable events happening at shows that feel like they're just that one-off weird theme show. Yeah. But this is a massively, massively important show for WCW. Watch this funny, you reminded me, because Batched Beach 95, that one is at an actual beach. That's the Baywatch show. Yeah.
02:34:07
Speaker
By 96, they're like, we can't lose all this money having no fans. We'll do that next month, don't worry. Yeah. We can't do that twice in one year. So they moved back to the beach, indoor reading, and people pay to see it, and they just put a beach theme on it. So it'd be weird if they hadn't done that, and you had the Hogan turn in the video promo at an actual beach, and then this show following it.
02:34:30
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. They made a right call for you. It just is an interesting contrast, isn't it, on the front? Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I thought this was a fascinating show. It's a completely different arena, a completely different atmosphere. It just feels like nothing we've yet seen. Even if it gets a bit uncomfortable at times, as you said, Steiner's versus Harlem Heat especially. Yes. Overall, I think the feel of the show was fascinating and helped draw my interest into the show.
02:34:59
Speaker
Not great from a monetary standpoint, but definitely made for a unique show. And man, do I want that arena in the games. Yes. Match-wise, I think we had a strong night, like you said. Outside of the main event, most matches had good to great action combined with strong character work. The main event at least still had the latter. Yeah. Even though if it's not that great of a match, it works as a historical curiosity. Agreed. Yeah. There were some real standout matches in the lower card, though, and nothing that slowed the show down.
02:35:28
Speaker
They were generally long matches too. Only two of them are less than 10 minutes. Majority are 14 or higher and Benoit versus Milenko tops out at nearly 27 minutes. Yes. You definitely got your money's worth in the wrestling content on this one. Yeah, that's true. Promo content was limited, but good. Giant and Hogan have very solid promos and Flair's pre-taped one is really, really good and very different for him.
02:35:53
Speaker
I could maybe have done with a video package for the NWO feud to drive home the story so far, or a pre-match NWO pre-taped promo or something, but otherwise this covered what needed to be covered and did so quite well. The commentary was also generally quite good, though they did get a little hit or miss at points.
02:36:11
Speaker
It's rare for me to say this, but it felt like Hienan was not quite on form with this one. He had some jokes that just honestly went on for a little longer, came back in too often. But that said, he's still a great part of the show at points, particularly with his accidental NWO cheerleading late in the show. He had some great conversations with Dusty over Dusty's wrestling history. Everyone still seemed to be having a lot of fun. They were just a tad off at times, perhaps distracted by the weird crowd atmosphere.
02:36:39
Speaker
It cannot be easy to commentate with engines roaring nearby, as Dusty even complains about at one point. Production was odd. We got some of the usual WSW missed shots and bad angles, but we also decided to intermix wildly expensive helicopter footage for no good reason at various points in the show, even going to that angle occasionally during matches just to be extra sure that we couldn't actually tell what was going on.
02:37:06
Speaker
The rally footage included was cool to see, but there's maybe a bit too much of that. One or two segments less would have kept the focus on the actual WCW show a little better. I did really love the road trip footage though. Moments like that that humanize the wrestlers a bit are quite nice. All told, I liked Hogwild 1996. It's hardly a perfect show, but it's quite good and a fun watch.
02:37:31
Speaker
There's some awkward moments to be sure, and I wouldn't want every show to be like this, but it was a neat experiment and worth checking out. Mm-hmm. Agreed. Match of the night and MVP then. So, Al, what's your match of the night? Thankfully, this is a bit of a challenge. Yeah. Do I go with Guerrero Flair for the almost passing the torch moment?
02:37:54
Speaker
Do you have the fun but basic LucasDinger? That's our match. Do we have the prolonged epic that is Ben Womolinko? Or do we have Ultima Dragon or Mysterio? It's thankfully not an easy call. It's good when it's like this. I love when these two things are a problem, yeah. Yeah, exactly. For me, I think I'm going to lean just a little bit towards the Dragon Mysterio match. Okay.
02:38:21
Speaker
I definitely enjoyed Benoit Malenko, but like I said, I think having two restarts, I think affected the crowd and they, they repeat a little bit, but otherwise it's a really good match. Dragon material is a really solid match. It really hyped the crowd up so it does his job amazingly. And it's a good pacing and good timing for me. Okay.
02:38:42
Speaker
For my part, I am going to go with Benoit versus Malenko. Yeah, those two just put on a near 27 minute wrestling clinic that just built and built and built and built and built and never slowed down. It was filled with flat out amazing sequences encounters, improved just what amazing talents WCW had access to in this era. MVP.
02:39:04
Speaker
This was a tricky one as well. I mean, I will tell you, I started writing an MVP statement because I generally select mine before we record. Not always, but generally I started writing, I think eight times and second guess myself every time I am still second guessing myself on what I've got written down here.
02:39:21
Speaker
Okay, so briefly, choices, I mean, Dragon showing up really strong in his first football match ever in the U.S. Mr. Eurokating Pace, do I have that? Benoit for working in this match with Linko, who's also a good strong contender for this. Steiner is for working in their match, that did a really good job. Booker T, even honestly, does a really good job in his part in tag match. Yeah.
02:39:46
Speaker
Flair for being willing to go above and beyond even victory with a Guerrero. Guerrero passing his test to prove that he can rise up the card and become the big star that he will thankfully be in wrestling. Luger is for his ridiculous yelling and just pure energy that really amplifies the finish of the match. Yep. Sting, the ultimate face in peril. Get to the goofy front bump in. His act is a little blow.
02:40:16
Speaker
Yes. Hall and Nash will do a really good job playing their characters and working a basic but well-executed tag match. Even if I don't like his match, I think he's not quite there yet. Hogan for being all in on this persona, even, to be fair. Yeah, I think you could make a case for him.
02:40:33
Speaker
Giant for getting, that's not the greatest, but him trying to step up and try to work this nuanced character and try to get a crowd to cheer him and boo Hogan. Yeah. Even Tony for keeping things straight on the show. He had his work cut out for him on this one. Yeah, exactly. As hard it is to pick between the two, I'm going to just briefly edge out Guerrero over Sting. OK.
02:41:00
Speaker
He was getting this challenge, prove you can be a main event guy, work with flair, do your stuff, but also do his stuff, make him look good, look good and defeat. Now that he had to work the diversity of a thing that went wrong. Yeah, I think that's really impressive. So that's a slight edge for me for him. Okay. Yeah, as I said, I had a massively hard time with this decision as well. I was glad to hear you do that. It wasn't like, Oh, no, right away. I got it. Yeah.
02:41:27
Speaker
But I love when it's a hard choice for MVP. Agreed. Yeah. I would name a lot of the same names. You'd have been one Malenko dragon, Mysterio, Lucre Nash Hall, Sting, Flair Guerrero. Like you said, there's a case to be made even for Hogan for giant, even though their match wasn't as strong. Like what they're both doing character wise is, is so different for them.
Closing Thoughts and Next Episode Tease
02:41:47
Speaker
Part of it is all the roles are so interconnected that it's actually hard to separate people out in like a given match and say, this person deserves it more than these other ones.
02:41:56
Speaker
Yeah. Like how do you pick between being one link in their map? I was honestly tempted to just give it to both of them, but I really wanted to try and pick one person. Sure. So for me, that person was Sting. Okay. You've pretty much made my case for me throughout the night, honestly. He just does such an amazing job with his face in parallel role, working his butt off to make sure that the NWO looks super strong by being able to thoroughly decimate one of WSW's best.
02:42:24
Speaker
Plus, he has one of his best ever jackets, which earns extra points. Yes. If they given Sting even just a short promo before the match, I think that would push him up ahead of me. And again, I don't disagree at all with any choice either. But yeah, seriously, it's a really important role that he has here and Sting nails it, bringing out the emotion of the NWO angle and helping the new-ish heels look really powerful while also not losing what he is. Exactly.
02:42:49
Speaker
Like he manages to be beaten up, but still be sting, which is something that is actually really hard to do as a strong face. Like if you're that power kind of face guy, but you have to look decimated, that's a hard balance to find. And no respect to giant, but you have a direct parallel on this show. Yeah.
02:43:09
Speaker
I think just the importance of what his role was accomplishing, I think kind of is what edges him out for me. But just about any of the wrestlers on this show, you could honestly probably make a case for and probably almost any of the commentators too. Yeah. There's a lot of really good performances, which is part of what makes this show so fun. I agree.
02:43:28
Speaker
And that wraps up our review of Hog Wild 1996. If you've enjoyed listening to us tonight, you can find us on Twitter or Facebook, as let's go to the ring. Links will be available in the episode description. Follow us for episode announcements and other show details, and share your own thoughts about each show as we go through.
02:43:45
Speaker
You can subscribe to our show on Apple Podcast, Google Podcast, High Heart Radio, Spotify, Stitcher Radio, TuneIn, Verbal, or Audible. And please, if you've enjoyed this show, give us a rating or review, and share the show through your favorite social media platforms to help others discover us. Many thanks to OSW Review for attendance and pay-per-view figures, and to Gina Trujillo for our logo. Next up, Road Wild 1997. It's gonna be wild.
02:44:14
Speaker
So wild, in fact, that WCW reportedly had to swap out HOG for ROAD to avoid infringing on trademarks. If trademark law isn't wild, I don't know what is. This is Bob Moore for Ali Pridgen, signing off. Good night, everybody. Happy wrestling.
02:44:43
Speaker
And of course the other question is why don't Hall and Luger run out? Stinging Luger. Sorry, why don't, yeah, sorry. The other question is why don't Stinging Luger run out as well?