Transcript
Speaker: Welcome back to another Gender in Focus episode. My name is Elle. I am here as always with Kai. Hello. hi how are you all doing? Me? Yeah. How am I doing?
Speaker: And the others. and Everybody. I'm doing so well. I put up my table, my garden table thing yesterday. Congrats. It's looking so cute and I can't wait to spend all my summer there. That sounds amazing and it's going to be so lovely to be in the shade and to properly enjoy the summer yeah without getting heat. pale ass skin cannot handle the heat so I need that shade. Fair.
Speaker: Today, we're going to be talking about disclosure at work. So what happens when trans and non-binary people come out as trans and non-binary, um usually to their manager, and then the process of what needs to happen after that. So we often talk about this as being, like at Transfocus, we talk about this as being an employee-led process. But there's a lot of things to consider when it comes to someone sharing that they're trans at work. And so that's what I would like to ah pepper you with questions about today, if that's all right with Fantastic.
Speaker: Absolutely. Yeah, I'm excited. Okay, I really want to start then with um what do we actually mean by disclosure? So for trans and non-binary people specifically, what does that look like?
Speaker: Yeah, a really good starting point for those who perhaps are not aware or maybe not familiar with this type of language that we're using. Typically, people talk about it in colloquial terms as, you know, coming out or Even some people say transition at work, things like that. ah But at TransFocus, we're very intentional about the use of the word disclosure to indicate sharing about one being trans or non-binary or two-spirit for the first time at work. So this is usually um can be a big step. And so there can be, you know, some actions on behalf of the organization or on behalf of the the person coming out. So it's just...
Speaker: indicating that step in the process or a set of steps. And we focus on disclosure rather than transition because often when we use the word transition, it kind of conjures up medical aspects right and...
Speaker: Not everybody does that. And so it's not relevant to everyone. Also, many people don't feel like they're changing. They're just themselves, but they've clarified with others.
Speaker: And maybe that's it. There's a change involved, but still it's more just sharing rather than and changing or becoming something else. It's just telling people about themselves as opposed to making any kind of jumps to changing something.
Speaker: That makes sense. um Obviously, we'll get into the details of this a bit later on, but I just wanted to ask ah a little overview of what some of the practical pieces ah of disclosure might be that might be necessary at work.
Speaker: Yeah, so there's a lot involved, but I'll give you a broad brush. and there're Depending on the individual's needs or interests, that can involve sharing with others or communicating with others in some way or another. There can be some education components, and also, it depending if people are changing their first names or pronouns, there can also be changes or updates to information systems. So,
Speaker: And, you know, sometimes there's an internal process just telling coworkers, but sometimes people, depending on their roles, actually work with clients or customers. And so there's that as added element to it. So it's just like thinking through all of those different dimensions. So that's a smooth process and one that's relatively comfortable for everybody involved. And, you know, helps people understand what's expected of them if they're not the trans person themselves. so yeah, those are just a few things that are involved.
Speaker: So disclosure can be, but even in ah an environment where they're supportive, it can be quite a complicated or vulnerable moment for for trans and non-binary employees. And so I was wondering if you could go into the things that maybe be trans and non-binary people are having to think about or balance before they get to that point where they're trying to speak to their manager or their leadership team about that.
Speaker: Holy smokes, that's such a big moment. And, you know, for the people who are listening that have this experience, you may be kind of tapping into your own memories as I am just right now. And, you know, it's it's a big moment. And so, you know, preceding that, people have spent lot time.
Speaker: months, years, decades thinking about this and exploring or wondering if they can come out and be their authentic selves and you know levels of self-loathing and you know all kinds of things to get to this moment of being like, no, I'm going to share.
Speaker: I will say that we know from the research that work is the last place that people come out. They typically come out to friends, family, you know, where they volunteer, maybe their faith communities, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker: This last step usually is harrowing because one's livelihood or passion or career is on the line. People don't know how it's going to pan out. Even if organizations are inclusive by word, they don't know how that will translate in deed and how they action that. Right.
Speaker: um So it's a very nerve-wracking moment. Some people, it's so nerve-wracking that they'll change jobs to come out, right? We know that from the data. Or they'll delay their coming out process um until such time as things are set or sorted or there's more assurance that coming out won't cost them their job.
Speaker: So, yeah, that's a bit of what's going on before people take that jump. At TransferGIS, we talk about this as being an employee-led process. And so I just want to get a general overview of what employee-led actually means. Yeah, it actually means that the employee is in the driver's seat. So they're engaged, they're consulted with, that you know, there's a collaborative approach to knowing what they need and want. And we could talk about the details of that to come.
Speaker: And, but essentially, they are the ones who kind of call the shots. And basically, the organization is providing options that are available to them to choose from. So it's because the the reason for that is,
Speaker: For a lot of things in trans and non-binary people's lives, there's a lack of agency, like total lack of agency, I would say. there's Most things are not set up for trans and non-binary folks. And so as much agency as we can return to folks, so much the better. it doesn't mean that they'll be doing everything, but...
Speaker: awesome you know, they they will have some thoughts on the matter and those are important to respect to the best of the organization's abilities.
Speaker: And so that's what we mean by having them drive the process. And it's not to say that they need to figure out everything that needs to happen, but they have insights that need to be considered.
Speaker: I really want to talk about the burden almost that trans people have when it comes to sorting this out and and going to to people to figure out what disclosure looks like for them at work. um Yeah.
Speaker: I'm laughing because i remember when I did this and I worked for Transfocus and I was so so nervous and it's like ludicrous I have probably the most easy out of any person I know i have the easiest process and I was so nervous still and there was like there is this feeling almost um of being a bit of a burden or being too much or like There's just, it's so much work like this is so much harder than if I wasn't. There's just so much that goes into like, doing this and saying something to somebody. And it's obviously not true. and It's not a burden, it shouldn't be a burden. But there is that real heaviness about not making things difficult for other people. And I wanted to relate that to um what we were talking about employee led, this being an employee led process and how in many cases I could imagine that trans and non-binary people feel the need to take on all of it to avoid burdening the leadership team or their manager or HR or something like that. And I was wondering if you could go into that a bit and um really what that looks like for trans and non-binary people.
Speaker: Yeah, such an important point that um often is invisible is what kind of thing people carry with them about what this means to the organization or what they can or can't ask for. And we've seen this time and time again that without any sort of indication from the organization, whether a toolkit or a set of guidelines or a procedural document, the outlines, the possible steps, People are left to think that they have to do everything themselves.
Speaker: And sometimes the posture of organizations even indicates that to be like, okay, cool that you're trans, but like, you you got to figure it out, right? it could be this kind of standoffish stance.
Speaker: Even if it's not intended as a negative thing, it can come across like, okay, I'm out here alone in the depths of these unknowns, and I got to wade these waters by myself, which announcing something so vulnerable to a group of people, whether it's 20, 50, 100, 200, you know, depending on the size of the company, like it's very intimidating and very scary.
Speaker: If people don't have this experience themselves and can think about another vulnerable thing that you've had to share with people, whether it's a pregnancy, mental health issues, you name it, like that's a lot.
Speaker: to have to do on one's own. But it comes up quite often that people think, okay, I to just figure this out. And the organization doesn't know or it doesn't have any guidance. So shoot, like, let's, let's try to do something.
Speaker: Hmm.
Speaker: ah That's hard. you've You've talked about having um this set of guidelines or toolkit in place. and And I was wondering again, what that might look like as a sort of rough overview, because obviously it's different depending on where you are. but Sure. Yeah. I mean, the toolkit is has multiple purposes or can if the organization wants. It's a tool information for the people coming out.
Speaker: go to What are the steps? What are the expectations? What can I ask for? Who do I go to? you know What do I have to share? What do I not need to share? Because it's not everything.
Speaker: And um then there's also information for people who are supporting the people the person coming out. Right? Because managers or even team members don't know what to do with this information. sure.
Speaker: Out of their depth often. Like we we talk about kind of deer in headlights moment. It's very legit because you just don't have it. Like because of the small percentage of trans and non-binary folks. the chances of people encountering it are less than usual.
Speaker: um So that guideline or toolkit is really helpful to outlining these types of steps and giving people a sense of what's next and sets up a smooth way forward Because anytime you introduce clarity, I mean, everybody is sighing of a relief um together because they're like, oh, thank goodness. Okay, there's these steps and we just have to do them one by one. We're going to set up a meeting. going to talk about these things. We're going answer these questions. Here some options. Oh, I like this one, not that one, you know.
Speaker: So it just, yeah, is so much more streamlined and easy to follow. Also, we usually um specify or tailor it to the organization because every organization has different human resources, information systems, or platforms where you log in you know, with your email and um IDs and, you know, you name it, travel. There's so much to consider. Right.
Speaker: So, yeah, that's where we detail all of that to explain what to expect. um Another one, just as a kind of usually surprising one, and I'll tell a little story to it as well. Their authorship of reports or patents. Oh, Yeah.
Speaker: overlooked. And I used to work in the mining industry and would write social impact assessments. And I went to a meeting with a new client, a new mining client, and they referred to a report that I had written, but was in my previous name or my birth name. And that came up. They're like, oh, such and such authored this. And I was like, oh, Like, how do I handle this situation, right? So I didn't end up coming out to them because it was too much at that moment to get into all of it. But that's where these kinds of things can be sorted out so that we don't put people in these difficult positions.
Speaker: hey Did they, were they saying that to you? was like the reports were Were they saying that specifically to you? They were like, X, and x Y, Z wrote this report.
Speaker: Thankfully, they said it was a good report. Because if you can imagine, it's like, ugh, this This idiot wrote this report. Yeah, yeah. Don't look at this. And they're like, no, no, no. We want you to base your the report on this report. And I was like, okay, okay, okay. They're like, we'll send it to you. i was like, don't worry about it. I got it.
Speaker: That's hilarious. ah yeah yeah So there's these little things that, I mean, they're not really little, right? Because sure yeah that's a difficult decision to make in that moment to say, do you own that report? Yeah.
Speaker: Do you let it slide? You know can't really think about all the downstream consequences of of not sharing that, right? In this moment, it was fine, but who knows? It could have been something else. and I don't know.
Speaker: Yeah. For sure. um What have you seen, like with the work that you've done with Transfocus, what have you seen organizations do when someone discloses that they are trans, ah specifically when they don't have a defined process in place? What does that, what can that look like?
Speaker: Right. Well, usually we're on speed dial. So they're like, hey, can you come help us? And we can. ah We definitely can help out in those instances and have been a part of many coming out processes, um especially if they're not defined and human resources or managers just want to figure out a kind of best practices way through.
Speaker: But it usually entails sitting down with the employee um and perhaps if it's a unionized environment, their steward and anyone else, maybe they they have a an employee that they're really close to and that they trust. So it's kind of a comfort to bring somebody else into that conversation.
Speaker: And essentially you're going through kind of what is changing or what they would like to share that is changing, right? Because not everything, they don't need to share everything. Sometimes people think they need a whole backstory on why this person's trans, how they figured it out and what does this mean? kind of go microscopic and you don't actually need to know all of that. Some people will share it, some people won't and we don't want to press people on that information.
Speaker: But essentially, you're wanting to understand, do we have a change in first name that may be legally changed? Is there a change in pronouns? And also, if they want to change gender marker, if the gender is collected in any of the HR systems. um And also, if there are going to be needs for time off, So we're not asking about surgeries because some people will may be undertaking gender affirming surgeries, but we're not saying, hey, are you getting top surgery? We're saying, um would you need any time off as part of this process? And, you know, if it's surgery, especially more major ones, that's going to be six weeks off six weeks off of work at a minimum. And so that needs to be factored into the timing.
Speaker: May need to access short-term disability if it's available, et cetera, et cetera. So there's these all these questions about what are the plans and what are the needs? And also if the employee has a sense of when they want to share with others and how they want to share it.
Speaker: So sometimes you'll have a clear timeline. They're like, next month, I want this squared away or sometimes faster. They're like, next week, right? So you got to be ready to, you know, run if it is it's a shorter timeline. And to respect that, not question it, be like, oh, well, that's going to take us so much time to figure it out. You know, that's that's not a that's more of an organizational issue than it is that person needs. they should be able to come out whenever is right for them because they've usually put a lot of thought into it.
Speaker: but And then just how. So who is doing the sharing? Sometimes the employee wants to do that. Other times they would rather the manager or human resources do that that legwork by just sorting out kind of who's going to be doing it and and how. So is it going to be an email? Is it going to be a newsletter entry? Is it going to be you know, an all hands meeting where somebody says something very briefly and then you're off to the races.
Speaker: um The final thing i would note too is that sometimes education is provided, especially to the immediate team members, because they may not know how to handle this situation and the more you equip them, the better it is for them. So this could entail, you know, a one hour training session,
Speaker: Now, in that session, you may or may not announce this person specifically or mention them. um You would need to get that permission from that per from the employee ah before doing that.
Speaker: um So these are all the kind of nuances. And then figuring out when to change it in the information system. And last thing is document, document, document. Okay. And right share that document with the trans employees so they understand exactly how you've heard or noted what is going to be done, especially if if ah HR or managers are doing anything, you would want them to be like, yes, that is the correct thing before proceeding.
Speaker: oh we've sort of talked about this in terms of uh employee led and that doesn't mean hands-off approach from from the organization there is an aspect that has shown up uh previously which is where the it sort of is the other side of that where organizations feel like they need to take the whole thing on and kind of almost leave the trans person out of it entirely. So I was wondering um what can go wrong with that and, and yeah, what the issues with that are.
Speaker: Right. Yeah. So that especially comes um to the surface where there's kind of like a highly regulated employee setting um where perhaps a very strong human resources culture And, you know, maybe a lot of policy and so wanting to do things right, maybe even for legal reasons, like it's not to say that it's completely unfounded. um But that said, then the situation can be that the trans or non-binary person is almost pushed out of their own process without much deliberation or
Speaker: collaboration or thought to what they need. And I've also seen it to where um some organizations are nervous to hand over the person announcing it themselves, if that's their wish, right?
Speaker: So they're like, no no no, no, you can't do that. And they're like, oh, because... That is very much their prerogative because it's whole their story, yeah right? Like it's fine if they want to delegate that to the human resources person if they're not feeling up to it. But it's another thing to be like, you can't communicate your own story. That's also ah harmful, right? Yeah. And so that has come up. And some of it has to do with like a distribution issue. So it's not to say that it's completely unfounded, especially if you're distributing to thousands of people. so That does need to be handled in a particular way. so But that said, there are ways to make sure that the person is still in the mix and perhaps even hitting the button.
Speaker: button to send, right? You know, like if trying to give them as much agency as possible is a part of the equation, right? And so that's key. So to not kind of, you know, have them be a ah bystander or onlooker of their own process, right? So and that can feel strange for some.
Speaker: You mentioned at the beginning about how there is such such a lack of agency with so many things in trans people's lives. And so it's such a vulnerable thing to have your agency taken anyway, but over something as important as that, that's really tough to handle, I would imagine.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And there are ways to navigate it if there are other considerations. um We often encourage explanation and ah alternatives, right? So if there is a distribution list that, you know, that person can't access or because of privacy shouldn't, right?
Speaker: It's fair. But then, you know, how can you provide a platform for them to share their story if that's what they want or to be, you know, controlling the narrative as much as possible? um and you know the ones writing the text that then get sent, things like that, or sending it to their immediate group or team, that being a really important option, because of course they they have access to those emails. And then maybe the wider distribution is the one that is for the company to handle, right? So just thinking through that to be like, I understand why you want to send this out. And here are some considerations on our end. And this is how, you know, here's some options for us to go forward so that you're not just like, no, you can't do that. You're like, oh, It shouldn't be just a plain no. And that's it. It's just continuing the conversation. yeah
Speaker: who Obviously, trans and non-binary people are not a monolith. disclosure I'm shocked. it Disclosure won't look the same for everybody. So how can HR or managers or people supporting trans and non-binary people avoid those ah sort of assumptions or of like what they need and kind of, oh, I know this one trans person needed this, so therefore that's what everybody needs. Or just sort of, I don't know, instead focusing on getting to know so the specifics of what this individual needs as opposed to
Speaker: like directing it this is the way we're going the kind of like gaining that flexibility as an ongoing process yeah it's so important and this is where i kind of think of the coming out process as a buffet that people can go to along with others and then select the items that they want or need And we're not saying, you know, a company would be kind of silly saying you can't have that part of the buffet, right? It's like, no, you're providing options and people can select and usually have a pretty good sense of what they need. Or if they don't, that just providing those options can give them a moment of like, oh, I hadn't thought about that. And now that I have, and with the options available, this is what I need and want, right? So I think it's really important not to, you know, think of trans and non-binary folks as all one, especially
Speaker: What can happen is like, it can be sometimes all trans and non-binary folks will need this and so we're going to provide it. ah right Also it can be all trans women, you know, need this and want this, even within specific gender identities.
Speaker: You're just not going to get the same situation um each time. And so just being open and listening and asking appropriate questions and like reflecting back to make sure you understood correctly, all of that will help make that process really um really smooth and also get the clarity that you as human resources or manager need to help move things forward. So yeah, it's a really important point.
Speaker: For sure. One of the things that I can imagine might happen, having not worked in an office, I wouldn't know, or worked in an environment like this, I wouldn't know. But ah one of the things that I could imagine might happen is um thinking that once somebody has disclosed that they are trans, that that's the end of it. So that you've gone through this process, you've this person has come out as trans and there's nothing else to be done. And so I was wondering about what that actually looks like at this kind of continuation of care as opposed to yeah just dumping the information and on you go.
Speaker: all right You're like, whew, I mean, i appreciate it. It's like a huge, it can be a huge effort. And then, so once you're done with it, you're like, okay, we all made it through this gauntlet and he survived and yay us and all all that good stuff. Right. So,
Speaker: um I will say that, you know, this type of setup, especially if it's done thoughtfully, can do a lot of the heavy lifting. It, you know, sets people up for success if they're co-workers of the trans or non-binary person, and things can go quite well.
Speaker: And, um you know, That said, its you know best laid plans change and so things can pop up or surprises encountered. You know you might find the the previous name tucked somewhere deep within the system and you're like, where did did that come from? you know and it' just You just don't know what might ah surface. and so That's where it's really important for hr and or managers to loop back to the trans or non-binary person and See how they're doing.
Speaker: You know, one month afterwards, three, six, you know, whatever the interval that you determine with the person, but just to check in, not to assume things are either really good or really bad, just more kind of a matter of fact check in.
Speaker: to see if the plans that were laid are working or if there's some sort of adjustment or if there's something that is challenging. Maybe washroom access is not going so smoothly and so might need to put more things in place to make that a better experience. Or perhaps there's additional training that's needed to bring other employees along, right? So you just don't know until you say something or check in.
Speaker: I will say most trans and non-binary folks from the research that we've done do not report things that they encounter. Even if it's an inclusive organization, they're very nervous.
Speaker: We don't want to rock the boat. We don't want to be a burden. we don't want to, um you know, be the squeaky wheel, you know, on and on and on.
Speaker: And so more often than not, people don't share. And so until you set something up where you're actively checking in, people might then more be more likely to be like, ah, now that you mention it, I am having this trouble or I didn't expect this.
Speaker: Right. So that's important. who For sure. Well, one of the things I did want to ask is we've talked a lot about having, um a clear internal process and we've talked about the toolkit, but I i was wondering if you could offer a sort of um side by side look at what this process looks like with the toolkit versus without a toolkit or without a disclosure plan and with a disclosure plan.
Speaker: Okay, yes. Is that heavy? Well, no, I mean, that's a really good question. What's the contrast between the two experiences? Well, one, and because we've accompanied um or sometimes been called in after the fact, after a coming out process that have sadly gone off the rails, and there's a lot of those, where um it's really the element of surprise that gets people kind of out of sorts. It's not even that it's about... Well, it can also be about being trans and non-binary, but it's actually the surprise of somebody being trans or non-binary with no understanding, context, um what do I do about this?
Speaker: You know, what's expected of me? And so people freak out. This is usually cisgender folks who are coworkers. And there can also be, you know, trans misogyny, um there could be a racial aspect to it it could be a disability aspect to it so there's all these kind of confounding factors that play into a worsening workplace experience but unfortunately um it really can get quite heated and hurtful uh we've we've gone into some pretty awful situations where it devolved into, you know, name-calling, in some cases, although very rare, violence, right? So, because yeah, so it's it's really serious. um
Speaker: And also ah tons of misgendering, like awful, awful two years of misgendering. We come in and we're like, two years? How... Like my heart broke, you know, just like for this individual and it was like huge miracle that they even stayed, you know? yeah So sure um all that to say when things aren't set up properly, you know, whether it's management, human resources, the trans person themselves or the coworkers can unfortunately make for very difficult circumstances and just muddy and unclear and yeah, things are kind of half changed in the systems. It's not clean and clear and it kind of just kind of stumbles along in this very awkward way.
Speaker: Versus, you know, you've got the toolkit. It's all very clearly outlined. Have a document that you can go through in a systematic way to be like, okay, we need to talk about travel. Now we need to talk about documents. You know, it's like super simple where everybody's around the table. Well, not everyone, but... The relevant people. Exactly. The whole the whole team is. yeah Like, yeah, yeah, Let's do it together. Yeah.
Speaker: And then, you know, you go through these details um in a way that sometimes even surprises trans folks that they hadn't thought about certain details. Because, of course, like not every trans person knows all the things to ask, right? It's by virtue of having worked across so many sectors, thousands of employees that we know or done research and that we know what those issues are, right?
Speaker: um And so kind of going through those in a very clear and systematic way, getting answers, writing it down, having everybody on the same page, and then managers and human resources equipped to handle when there are pain points or tension points, um just not leaving it be to the trans person to address, which And all the court cases that have ever come through on these issues, it's because management didn't do anything, right?
Speaker: So yeah, anyway, so those are just a few things that are, you know, bit better with a toolkit in place. I really want to pick up on something you said just then, which was about how trans people don't necessarily know what they're, what they can ask for, or what is even available. Maybe they didn't think about some things on that. And I think there is this idea that if you're trans, or non-binary, you are therefore the spokesperson for trans and non-binary experiences and you know everything there is to know about it and you're now the expert and will ask you. But actually, for a lot of people, they are realizing that they're trans and maybe they've been living with it for a long time or they've come to sort of a point where they really
Speaker: want to get this thing off their chest and and kind of step into themselves but they're like new to it too in a lot of cases and there's like of of course they probably have a bit more knowledge just by virtue of lived experience but it doesn't mean that they've suddenly downloaded the in like I don't know every single law that's possible every single thing a bit of information that's necessary for them. And so having this toolkit in place is um so helpful to make that process smoother for everybody. But I sort of, and I know from what you've told me that you'll have trans people ask you, like come to you and ask you, can I ask for this ah at work? Like, am I allowed to have this? and And so there is this like hesitancy or, or, um, lack of surety around that. And so I guess what I wanted to do in closing up this episode is what advice would you give trans or non-binary people, ah who are trying to ask for what they need, um, during disclosure, especially if they're worried about kind of maybe making things difficult or, uh,
Speaker: Yeah, that kind of hesitancy. I was wondering if you could drop some advice bombs for everybody. Yes, absolutely. I would love to, because, you know, I appreciate the hesitation. And i would say, especially in Canada, the situation is much, much better compared to other places unnamed. And yeah. sometimes we just kind of absorb what's happening elsewhere and being like, I think it's happening here too in Canada. It's like, no, no, no, no.
Speaker: You know, washroom access is based on gender identity and, you know, respect of pronouns is like, has been determined as important, you know, not have being forced to choose between man and woman if that's not a category, e either category doesn't fit, right? Like we have court cases that have substantiated and clarified these things to the point where actually employers need to step up to the plate, right? They may not be aware of that and sometimes are surprised when we come and share these details and be like, oh, okay, we need to sort things out here pretty quickly um so we're not you know noncompliant essentially. And so there's much more confidence that trans and non-binary folks can bring to ask for things in the workplace that are not unreasonable. Oftentimes our requests are really minimal, like kind of the bare bones. Absolutely.
Speaker: Yeah. You know, I mean, people are kind of concerned about the basics, right, of access to washrooms, change rooms. Change rooms ends up being um a really important matter because some workplaces you're changing before going, say, especially if it's maybe labor more labor intensive. And so these are some of the things that um they're needing to sort out and the law supports that access.
Speaker: Now, there might be different ways of doing that and working together is really important, but I just, I feel really sad when, you know, there's hesitation to ask for the most basic.
Speaker: And so my advice to folks is to to kind of, you know we don't have to be hostile about it, but, you know, like to be like, no, this was very important to me and I know i i need to be accommodated in this way. And how can we make that happen?
Speaker: It's not if it should happen, it's how do we make this happen? ah right I will say that most organizations are ready to step up to the plate. They may not know how, which case they call us. because we'll help them think it through. um But most are willing to do that. Now, if there's a place that is not willing, I think that gives people a lot of information. Now, some cases that's illegal. but In other cases, it's more of a litmus test of whether this is an organization that is sustainable for that individual, right? So...
Speaker: But yeah, those are just some things that come to mind. But definitely there's way more backing there to ask for the things that you need. Cool.
Speaker: That's good to know. I can imagine that would be super helpful. um I wanted to ask just before we go now that about the tools that we have at Transfocus and just the um things that are available for organizations trying to navigate this.
Speaker: Yeah. So from a, if an organization wants to set up a toolkit or a set of guidelines, we have a process that we offer to follow to understand specific needs of an organization and also what trans and non-binary folks need and kind of bring those all together. in a tailored document for that organization.
Speaker: We also have kind of more generic things available, including one that we'll add to our newsletter if you join it, and that is a disclosure template. So i think it's about 10, 12 pages long, and essentially gives you most of the things that you'll need to think about or talk about. and how to talk about it. So we're not asking about surgeries, we're asking about time off, right? So those nuances being very critical, and we have little instructions on each section so that HR or managers know exactly what to do or say or not do.
Speaker: And to to document it, it's a Word file, so you can then fill in those details if that happens or when it happens. Lastly, i will say also for those who, you know, want their own kind of self-paced process, don't necessarily need our involvement. We also have an on-demand course that goes through all of that, including the disclosure template and also a template for the toolkit, one that you can tailor to your own organization. And also things like gender affirming benefits and time off and, right yeah, just a whole set of things that are important and how to set up a human resources information system, et cetera, et cetera. So it's ah a really valuable resource and one that is available for access.
Speaker: Great. Well, I will add all of those to the show notes. Is there anything else before we head off? No, we go about covered ah quite a bit of what we needed yeah really important considerations. So hopefully that gives good insight and motivates organizations if they haven't already done it to have something, kind of some procedural clarity around this.
Speaker: Cool. Well, thank you so much, Kai, as always. And we'll see you all next week. Okay, bye for now.
