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Dr. Gene Shirokobrod on Redefining Health, Healing Pain Through Movement & The Power of Human Connection
64 Plays1 year ago
Journey Mindfulness Podcast hosts a captivating conversation with Dr. Gene Shirokobrod, a visionary physical therapist and entrepreneur. Together, they explore the concept of "movement as medicine".
Dr. Shirokobrod, known for his innovative approach to healthcare, shares his journey from traditional physical therapy to creating Recharge Modern Health and Fitness, a community-focused fitness gym and sustainable health center. They discuss the mind body connection & profound impact of mindful movement on mental health, pain management, and overall well-being.
The episode offers practical insights into pain science, the importance of proactive healthcare, and the benefits of community-based fitness programs. Dr. Shirokobrod also sheds light on how they are adapting to the significance of menopause support in women's health in their community as well as their innovative approach of integrating a golf fitness program for enhanced athletic performance.
This thought-provoking conversation offers listeners valuable insights into the transformative power of movement and the importance of a holistic approach to health and wellness.
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This episode is dedicated in loving memory to our beautiful sister:
Kathleen Michele O'Neill
December 30, 1964- August 19. 2024
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Thank you for joining us on The Journey Mindfulness Podcast. We appreciate your listening and support. Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review our show. And until next time, may your journey be filled with mindfulness, compassion, and growth.
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DISCLAIMER: This show is for entertainment purposes only, not intended to replace medical advice. Please seek licensed medical professionals for help.
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Transcript
Introduction to Movement as Medicine
00:00:15
Speaker
Welcome to the Journey Mindfulness Podcast. I'm your host, James O'Neill, AKA Jimbo. And we're going to explore today the interconnectedness of mind, body, and spirit. Today we delve into the powerful concept of movement is medicine. In a world dominated by sedentary lifestyles, we often overlook the profound impact of physical movement on our overall wellbeing.
00:00:45
Speaker
From ancient civilizations to modern science, the healing power of movement has been recognized for centuries.
Mindful Movement for Health
00:00:52
Speaker
On this episode, we're going to explore how and kt incorporating mindful movement ah or intention into our daily lives can transform our physical, mental, and emotional health. We'll discuss these benefits and various movement practices from yoga. Just kidding, maybe not yoga, but I wanted to throw that in there. It's strength training.
00:01:16
Speaker
Join us as we uncover this transformative potential of movement and discover how it can become a catalyst for a healthier, happier you.
Meet Dr. Jean Chiracobrod
00:01:25
Speaker
And I'm thrilled to have a very special guest, Dr. Jean Chiracobrod, an entrepreneur and physical therapist and the CEO of Recharge Modern Health and Fitness, among other things in Howard County, Maryland.
00:01:42
Speaker
Also the host of the movement is medicine podcast. And in general, one of the good guys in healthcare. care So welcome Dr. G. Thank you Jimbo. I like how you, is that part of your intro every time?
00:01:57
Speaker
the and i just make god and think I didn't think I heard that one before. so that was that was not I thought it was because I usually call you Jimbo. It was a nice little nice little introduction, even though you hesitated on the spirit portion of the the mind, body, and your spirit. I wouldn't be willing to talk about the spirit, Jim. I take i take offense with that. It's very mindful to pick up on that hesitation. and I'm very present.
00:02:26
Speaker
Well, that's good to know and that we can dive into that as well. Can't wait. Um, so I guess what I wanted to start with is that, you know, how I sort of found recharge was that I it was like, during the beginning of being of COVID towards the beginning of COVID, I guess.
The Recharge Community's Philosophy
00:02:49
Speaker
And I was feeling very lonely. So mentally and physically like alone and disconnected from the world, as I'm sure many people were. And one day I saw some people and some rowers rowing.
00:03:05
Speaker
in the parking lot near my office and i'm like what is going on here and eventually they came to join recharge and this wonderful community that you built and so it was
00:03:21
Speaker
It was a, a really a savior for me at that time. Like, wow, there's all these people here that, um, are, you know, helping each other out and and be healthy. And so it was, it was a really, really special thing and it's been a very beneficial part of my life. So first, I guess I would say thank you. Um, but then I also want to ask you, what was the idea of the origin story of
COVID's Impact on Health Perception
00:03:45
Speaker
recharge? How did you come to creating that? Because.
00:03:52
Speaker
It's different. It's a different kind of place. So it's unique in that way. So maybe you could go into that story and just talk about that origin. Well, first of all, thanks thanks for sharing that um that. That means a lot to hear that. um Obviously, that that's what we're here for, is a level of the of the human connection. And I think a couple things you said will resonate, will be a thread line through the the origin story is disconnect and loneliness were two two big words that I heard from you. um And COVID taught us that, right? COVID so covid taught us that
00:04:27
Speaker
We are social creatures. and we We are still designed to be together. um And ultimately, that comes back to the question of what is health? How do we define health? How do we define healthy? And for for most people, the answer is, unfortunately, usually when unhealthy happens. and If you ask most people is what is healthy, they'll usually describe aspects of it, of hey being fit or eating well or you know sleeping or you know some aspect of it. But the real answer is those those are cogs in the machine. right Health is a multi-aspect system that has to be a proactive machine fed into you.
00:05:21
Speaker
And unfortunately, we as in Western medicine, Western society is designed on a reactive system.
Limitations of Conventional Therapy
00:05:28
Speaker
So I was part of that reactive system. My mike my background is I'm a physical therapist. I went to PT school at the University of Maryland School of Medicine. Loved it. like My focus in high school was I wanted to be a physical therapist. like I knew what I wanted to do.
00:05:44
Speaker
Um, and my mindset at that time was I wanted to work with my hands. I wanted it to be a manual therapist and I wanted to fix people right that I had this this this process of that I I have control over somebody else's body And I started working in the clinic after I graduated. Um, I got certified in manual therapy I went to like hundreds of hours of continuing education like I built this reservoir of knowledge of musculoskeletal and neurological um information. And then I got into the clinic and I started working and I loved it and I worked with my hands and I started fixing people. you know People came in with pain and then they left without it. And I did that for years.
00:06:27
Speaker
and and then
00:06:31
Speaker
After doing that for years and seeing thousands of patients a year, I started to realize and and and this dawning started to happen on me as I was writing the Dunning-Kruger Wave. um I was like, what do I actually know? What am I actually doing here? right You started asking these questions because I would fix people and then three or four months later they would come back with a different issue.
00:06:55
Speaker
or I would work with them and their pain would go down to a certain amount and their insurance company would be like, well, we're not paying for any more sessions. I'm like, whoa, whoa, who's in charge of the person's wellbeing here? And it- Yeah. How's this helping that person? Exactly. and It became a financial decision. So I started getting these these these these whispers. um These tentacles started being planted in my head as, I don't want to discharge people because I started building relationships with these people, right? And no other part in your life do you go,
00:07:24
Speaker
Well, you know, we spent eight weeks together. I'm going to discharge this relationship now. We're done. Thank you. Thank you for hanging out with me for eight weeks. Uh, but medicine is kind of based on that, right? Cause it's a reactive model. We, Oh, it's even worse in, in a mental health. We call it termination. You call termination. Termination. Yeah. Terminate something. Well, there's discharges, like termination for Schwarzenegger on them. You're like, I'm the terminator. It's just a term that gets taught. It's like, whoa, it's just harsh. That is very harsh. That is.
00:07:55
Speaker
Not very mental health. It is not very mental health, no. Terminate them. So yes, I was like, this doesn't pass the smell test, right? It just does not smell right. But it's the machine.
Redefining Pain and Health
00:08:08
Speaker
I keep saying the word machine a lot, but it's true. It's the medical industrial complex and that's what we're forced into. So I was like, I don't want to be forced into that anymore. What I enjoy the most is the relationships with my patients, is them coming in the next day and the next appointment going, hey, ah couldn't wait to tell you about the movie that I saw that we were talking about before. Or, hey, my daughter had this game. Here's how the results were because I knew you were interested. right like those Those human aspects became as as critical for me as possible.
00:08:41
Speaker
And then I started to shift my focus in education as well. Instead of going about the body and biomechanics, which I felt like I had a pretty good grasp on, I started looking at what pain really was. I started to study pain. And what I realized was, what the latest evidence of pain science was, is that pain is an experience.
00:09:00
Speaker
It's even if something physical happens, if you roll your ankle, the experience of pain is just your your brain's ability and and system to process danger. So pain is not a physical thing. There is no pain receptors. There's no coceptors that feel different threat.
00:09:18
Speaker
But pain is not about that. So then again, I started to go deeper and go, if people are in pain and pain is an experience and people are fed so much fear and misinformation and this this jointed information about what health is, what can I do to instead of trying to get them to a baseline level of pain free?
Birth of Recharge and Holistic Health
00:09:41
Speaker
What if we go in the other direction? What if we proactively keep them healthy and engage in a community?
00:09:47
Speaker
and never discharged them. What if we keep them healthy for 20, 30, 40 years into the future? By building relationships, by building community, by looking at multiple aspects beyond musculoskeletal health or pain. Um, and that, that's kind of when the idea for recharge really started to come into my mind. And I was probably mid 2010s, 2013, something like that, 2014. And then I created a product with like Shark Tank and then it kind of went to entrepreneurial route and then.
00:10:19
Speaker
double back in like 2015, 2016, and really started to conceptualize recharge. And so we opened it in 2017. Very cool. Yeah. That's, uh, it's like one of those things that you hear about sometimes, right? Where it's like, you know, be the change you want to see and you, you are in a model. And I think a lot of times, at least in the mental health room.
00:10:46
Speaker
doctors and therapists are like, well, this is the way it is. And it just kind of accept that when it's like, well, what if you could change it? What would that look like? And then starting to brainstorm and actually put ideas into action that are meaningful and ultimately fulfilling for a lot of people. A hundred percent, a hundred percent. And, you know, the thing that pushed me over the edge was really the question of how much good am I really doing?
00:11:12
Speaker
and And the realization was that all all the time that I spent learning my methodology of fixing people really didn't fix anybody. You don't change tissues with your hands. You change the sensation that your brain is processing. So all I was doing was creating an environment in that moment for somebody in their body. right But our bodies are so resilient. um But the thing we tell our members, especially when they first start out, is you have to remember what your body's designed to do, and that's to not change.
00:11:40
Speaker
Right? Our bodies are designed to maintain a homeostatic environment. We're designed to maintain status quo. And then anything away from that status quo is either going to be perceived as dangerous and your body has to adapt and adjust typically through an inflammatory process or becomes a false positive. So people, you know, go for a walk or they're like, yeah, I move around at work.
00:12:02
Speaker
I'm always active, but if it's not moving the needle, um if it's not challenging your tissues, ah you're just creating a false positive. So you're not disrupting that homeostatic environment. And a lot of times in the clinic, especially the way I was treating, and there's nothing wrong with it. It's effective, but there was a disconnect between what I truly thought was happening and what the reality was, was different, and I couldn't I couldn't move past that,
Guiding Patients in Healing
00:12:29
Speaker
right? I took the red pill and there was no going back. Like I knew the truth and then I just could not live in that reality anymore. I kind of want to unpack that a little bit. You knew the truth. So you knew what was going on with their bodies the outside of just the the actual like thing that they were there for, what you were working on. the and And the reasoning, right? that That before, if I did a spinal manipulation,
00:12:55
Speaker
It was like, yeah, your joint is repositioned or we moved your joint back. And then the reality is the joints don't really move that much. And you hear a crack, great, but that's some gas leaving. But what's truly changing the perception is your brain and your nervous system. And the way I explain the procedure and the things we talked about after the procedure were just as important as the technique itself.
00:13:17
Speaker
right So this idea that I was fixing people with my hands was a a false narrative in my head. I was not fixing anybody with my hands. My hands were a mechanism, a cog in in this process.
00:13:31
Speaker
but What was truly helping people was the way I explained things, the way I listened, um the way they bought into it, and more importantly, if they felt like they were the hero in the story and I was the guide. If I helped them understand what was happening and helped them empower the process, that they were in control over that process, that's when they started to get better much faster. but So this idea of fixing people was about me, not about the patient.
00:14:00
Speaker
but It made me feel good, the things that I learned, the things that I worked on, the the results that I got. um And I was like, I, I, I, I, I. And I was like, that that's this is this is this that there's something wrong there. but So I had to accept the mindset that it's not about me, it's about the patient and the person in front of me. And then once I asked that question, if it's truly about them and it's not about what I'm doing and their body's resilient and it's really not changing, so what the heck's going on?
00:14:28
Speaker
How is, why is change happening? Why are they getting better? um And that's when I started to kind of go through this process of what is actually happening, not what do I want to happen.
00:14:41
Speaker
Wow, that's high level stuff there for the folks listening. And maybe is that part of every sort of healer's journey in some sense is like, you know, I'm going to fix this, but it's not really me, right? It's giving the patient or the client the autonomy to empower themselves on in that path. I think so. I think there's a reason most of us get into a healing or medical profession. I think that there is some underlying piece to it. And I think once you figure that out and you're willing to ask that question of
Integrating Mental and Physical Health
00:15:23
Speaker
what's it for? And for some people it it's simple. Like some people want to get into a medical profession because it's a job and it's usually a safe job and it pays well and that's fine, right? You can be a,
00:15:34
Speaker
serviceable clinician and be perfectly ah smart and capable and and do the job and not feel like it's your mission in life that it's a job. That's okay as long as you're competent and proficient. But I think if you see it as more than that, and and I think that that's the difference between a clinician and a healer maybe, um it it's a deeper connection. And I was after the connection more than just logging in the hours right and just going through next, who's next, who's next, who's next.
00:16:08
Speaker
That just that that was not scratching that itch for me. um So I wanted something deeper. And that's what I try to try to figure out what that was. I feel like you just dipped into that spirit category a little bit, but not I don't know. You hesitated on that. So I'm I'm hesitating, even discussing that.
00:16:28
Speaker
don't hesitate. No, but the that connection, right. So ah in the introduction, I talked about interconnectedness, but one of the big aspects ah
00:16:40
Speaker
of mindfulness based stress reduction when you go through a course is the, is the interconnectedness or the interdependence of all things. Like we're all connected. And once you start to feel that there is a felt emotion, typically it's more like love. Um, you know, you talked about pain management and love is a part of that too, you know, whether it's loving your body and or befriending your pain in a way. Yeah, that's that's ah that's a great highlight. um And I think you're right. And and we we do talk about this um quite often because pain is experiential, so it's experience-based. It's a pain experience. So you you have to have a relationship with your pain. And I think if you understand, again, coming coming back to this this this idea of of understanding in order to empower,
00:17:40
Speaker
If you better understand pain, why it's happening, timeframes, and a process of it, then you can start building a relationship with it instead of fighting against it, ah very much like a current. ah you Sometimes you can't change the current, and sometimes you can't change pain. Actually, most pain is what what's called insidious, meaning it just starts. And one of the hardest things for us to teach and people to understand is that you can have hurt without harm.
00:18:10
Speaker
that you can be hurt and you can be in pain without tissues being harmed. Because most pain, think about chronic pain, right? It takes even the worst injuries. If you break your bone, it takes four to six weeks to heal, six to eight weeks if it's something serious. If you have surgery, it might be a couple months. If you have tendon issues, it could be three months. But people have pain for four months, five months, eight months, 10 months, 12 months. Even longer, I've treated people in pain for 20 plus years. Your tissues are healed up.
00:18:39
Speaker
right But this this this concept of pain is still there. This this danger signal is still there um because you're in an unhealthy relationship with that part of your brain. You you haven't allowed it to move forward. You haven't allowed ah to to reestablish a new homeostatic environment. And that's exactly what your brain and nervous system did. It said, here's here's this level of hurt without harm anymore. And now we have pain.
00:19:04
Speaker
Um, and that that's, that's hard to work through. It's hard to work through for people. And, but there's ways, right? We, we give people analogies and metaphors and things like if you, if you lose a limb and you still feel pain in your toes, but if you don't have a leg below your knee, how does that work? Right. There's still pain, but there's no tissue. So phantom limb pain, we're talking about eating something spicy. And if you eat something spicy and your mouth is on fire and you're in so much pain, then you open your mouth and there's no harm.
00:19:34
Speaker
like mustard Skittles. That was, that was an experience, Jim. do ah It tasted like mustard though, right? Like it was, it was really, really good in terms of that. I walked into the gym one day and someone said, Hey, there's a mustard Skittle. And I i honestly thought it was a joke. I didn't realize that that was an actual thing or um however that I don't even know how the it came to be.
00:20:01
Speaker
Oh, but it really did taste like mustard. Yeah. One of our members, Karen works for McCormick and she gets sample things. So she brought in a pack of, I don't know if they were testing it or it was for a, I think it was for a promotion with, uh, I think it was Heinz mustard.
Mindfulness and Mental Health
00:20:16
Speaker
And, uh, she's like, Hey, try these. And just out of, you know, a man of science and testing, I had to understand it for myself because I don't really like candy. I don't eat sweets really.
00:20:28
Speaker
And it tasted like shockingly like mustard, plus Skittles. It was actually kind of amazing how well they nailed the the mustard taste.
00:20:38
Speaker
yeah so it what I mean, there's a lot of reasons why I, you know, love and appreciate your gym. ah But one of the things is mindfulness and ah that it was a sort of point, like this recognition on your guys' end, like, okay, the mental health game matters.
00:20:59
Speaker
It's a big deal, you know, especially talking about pain and what people are carrying in their bodies and all the things that come out when you start to move things around that will start to pop up. One of them is the beginner's mind. And I think I'm pretty sure it was like the first time I met you that you kind of brought that up. You know, it's like we have this idea of what our bodies are capable of and what we feel. But until we start actually moving it and doing it, we don't really know.
00:21:29
Speaker
but yet we all have this story that we're working with. yeah So where did that come, how did that kind of come up for you in your practice or in your concept of, okay, like this mental health and how people ah relate to that? Yeah, that's that's a great question. And um I'm glad that that experience stuck with you.
00:21:50
Speaker
um It really was part of of that that evolutionary process in my approach to health. um After I spent so much time in the physical and in the mental or the musculoskeletal and then the nervous and then the pain and then the natural progression when you start learning about pain and you realize it's so experience-based, you also see the direct connection with mental health.
00:22:15
Speaker
right that people with mental health challenges have a much more ramped up ah called sensitive nervous system. there's There's a level of sensitivity there. And that that was my bridge to mental health. right I went from this physical and then I saw that people in pain typically have some some level of mental health challenge.
00:22:40
Speaker
So then I was like, wow, I really need to learn about mental health and psychology. And and then I started to get absolutely fascinated by behavioral psychology. I mean, that that was that that's where all my light bulb
Living in the Present
00:22:51
Speaker
moments happened, right? Those those were the gaps that started to get filled in in the musculoskeletal that I had. like the and In the beginning that we talked about, I was like, I just needed the answers and I couldn't find them in just the tissue physiology and the biology and the physics. um And then mental health and and behavioral psychology was like, this is amazing. This is amazing. I think one of the first books I read that it was huge and I read, and I think I read right after that, it was Thinking Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman. And I was like, wow, this this this explains so much. um And then Body Keeps the Score.
00:23:26
Speaker
was was really good about trauma and how that that that manifests itself physically. And then I just, I was hooked from there and I started going after it. And then you just you just you just start, once once you branch out out of your tunnel and you start looking how outside of the tunnel impacts the tunnel itself, right? Like there's a lot of outside. If you're driving through a tunnel that's underwater, yeah you're covered by an ocean, right? But you're still focused on this one path. ah So I started to kind of look at the ocean around the tunnel and that was a mental health. And um there's this concept that I learned, it was called the mental time machine, where people get really frustrated and they get into this mental time machine and they go into the past. They go, here's what how I was, here's what I used to do, here's the things that I remember myself doing. And there's also the negative of that is, is here's the thing that had hurt me, here's the things that
00:24:21
Speaker
have created this this negative experience and they go back into that. Then they go in the other direction, in the future, in the time machine, go, here's the things that I want to do. Here's the things I can't wait to do. Here's the things I'm frustrated that I can't do. What they don't do is stay in this moment and go, and here's where you are now. It doesn't matter what you are. It doesn't matter necessarily what got you to this point, being aware is good. right don't Don't push those things down necessarily, but you still have to walk the now. right You still have to accept this is what your body's capable now, and you have to figure that out in order to change that that present consistently.
00:24:57
Speaker
And I think that's part part of the empowerment process is helping people, giving them permission. that That's what we always say, right? That that was the one one big thing I even wrote an article on this is the biggest thing we have, the biggest superpower we have as physical therapists is to give people permission to do. And once they accept that and actually do it, that' that's when good things happen.
00:25:22
Speaker
The past does not equal the future. It's so easy to to drop into story and get stuck there and and live in it, even though it's it's not the now moment. I'm guessing you do that a lot with with clients, right? Like they they get in this loop, it's hard to break it.
00:25:37
Speaker
Yeah, there's a technique called mental noting. It's a meditation, but it's you know, you you're observing ah sort of like this metacognition, right? So you're observing what's happening in your mind and and how many times you go into story, right? Like I'm this or I'm that or this happened or this is scary or I can't do this anymore. You know, and then it's like, okay, in the now moment, what if I could?
00:26:02
Speaker
you know, and and give it a shot. And then you you prove yourself wrong in a sense, but that just being able to label that in a way like, okay, that's that story. That's not necessary. That's not reality right now.
00:26:13
Speaker
I'm not in the past, you know, like, like the injuries, like I've had so many injuries.
Overcoming Psychological Barriers
00:26:18
Speaker
They loom in your mind and in your body, but in the now moments, like, all right, do this lunge. Everything is connected. It's going to hold up. You just got to trust your body. Yeah. And it's, that's a mental load as well, right? To, to, to trust it and then do, and then deal with the after effects of it. Right.
00:26:41
Speaker
the The actual action is the easy part. and Oftentimes we tell our members the hardest thing you're ever going to do at recharge is walk through the door. like that That's much harder than any exercise you do. that Everything that leads up to that to that of getting you through the door, that's usually the hardest for people. but um That's the only reason you're on this podcast right now. Because you walk through the door? Because I walk through the door.
00:27:08
Speaker
That is true. So i I was in a freak wiffle ball accident a couple of months ago. That's a way to frame it. and What else do you say? I mean, like, ah you know, I remember the first time I had to like actually like say it to people. I'm like, what happened? I was playing wiffle ball on vacation with friends or my family and children and fell down a ravine in boulders and crashed into a tree and scraped myself up and really, yeah, really entered myself. And then walking into the door again was a barrier as a psychological barrier. Like, all right, we're coming back.
00:27:49
Speaker
And, you know, you gently encouraged me, ah which is always fascinating to me how you you do that with people. You know, it's like, how do I get this like motive? I guess it was a motivation discipline, like, hey, come on back and like creating that space, that sense of safety, like, all right, walk through the door. We gotcha.
00:28:10
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I like to rely on guilt usually, you know, that that's usually a go to just guilt people into it. Um, sarcasm. Um, no, I think there, there is no one strategy because that that's the whole point of relationships, right? We, we know every single one of our, our members because they are too large extend friends at this point. Um, I think I can't remember who I was joking around with.
00:28:41
Speaker
um that I was joking around that majority of my life I spend with friends that pay me money. that that That's what it is. right so my i You have to subscribe to the idea that sometimes you have to do and say what's best for the person and know that their reaction might not always be ideal, but you still have to do it.
00:29:05
Speaker
that's that's kind of the biggest thing. um And when you're the guide and not the hero, when they are the hero in their story and you're the guide at this portion, you have to do what you have to do even though the effect might not be great initially. And sometimes that's the case. Like when somebody's going through something and they're not necessarily ready to do what what you feel like and from an evidence standpoint knows best for them,
00:29:30
Speaker
but they might not be quite ready for that yet, right? So you have to do everything along the way. And sometimes it's being persistent and annoying and texting nonstop and being sarcastic and joking and all those things until the the opening is there and they go finally, okay, now now I'm ready to walk through the door. um So all that to say is you just have to be there, right? Like you just have to be there and the person knows that you'll be there no matter what and you just have to Kind of match their their energy to to that point Yeah, I mean there's you know the concept of non-attachment to outcome it's like you're you're taking a risk you're doing what you believe is right to help them and Letting go of yeah, you know and sort of trusting that things are gonna
00:30:19
Speaker
then it gets into patience that things are going to unfold in the right time. And that that's hard, right? Cause you, you give up some level of control when you're doing that. And that's why you have to have this idea that it's not about me because you're, you're year giving away. One of the things that we as humans have an insanely hard time giving away is this idea of
Consistency in Healing
00:30:41
Speaker
control. Um, but it's true, right? You, you are,
00:30:45
Speaker
brick by brick, leading a path back. And you have to accept that you might not know how many bricks it takes for this person, but my job is to keep putting those bricks down and hope that it doesn't take um an entire store worth of bricks, that it's just a few. But sometimes it does, right? Sometimes it does. And We've had people come back after a year or two years because they've gone through some stuff and it's just consistently checking in and and seeing how they're doing and um eventually
00:31:18
Speaker
they are at the point where they're like, okay, I have enough vulnerability now to go, I can come back and accept the repercussions and usually internal repercussions, right? of Of how they will feel in that moment, in that space. And that's, that's a scary thing.
00:31:40
Speaker
Well, it's ah you know a big hurdle and and a challenge for a lot of people to face our fear, but that's where we see the most growth mentally and physically as well, for sure. ah i you know I wanted to highlight, just talking about mindfulness and mental health, one of the things that I Well, I know I'm not alone in this, but truly appreciate is recharges and and really it stems from from your leadership ability to adapt to the needs of the community. And so, you know, menopause is one of those issues now um that I see with some of my clients who are females, they are going through things and and finding gaps in in sort of Western medicine and what knowledge is out there. But then you guys taking the lead from the community and like
00:32:32
Speaker
adapting that and changing your approach and how you address things as needed. i think i really just I wanted to highlight that and maybe you can talk a little bit about what that was like for you, but it was very impressive to me how you guys have have worked with that.
Adapting to Community Needs
00:32:47
Speaker
Well, thanks. um i mean It's still a slow process. um there There has to be some level of methodical in any addition or change ah because one one of the big things of of people and community and especially being um a place of consistency is you have to be consistent. You you you have to have a level of sameness.
00:33:17
Speaker
ah Because people feel comfortable in routine and people feel comfortable in knowing something is there. And that that's important, especially if we truly see ourselves as like a third space or a big important part of somebody's life. we We have to show up. We have to be here. And they have to have some level of understanding what they're going to get.
00:33:39
Speaker
So change change is very, very slow and and for us as well. um But conversations don't have to be and listening doesn't have to be and individual integrations doesn't have to be. And then as as commonalities start to happen, you you have to start kind of mentally tracking that and saying, here's here's a difference that that's starting to emerge. Here's a pattern that's starting to emerge. And that's really all medicine is, is understanding patterns. And ultimately you have to go, okay, if I
00:34:15
Speaker
adapt to this new pattern, how does that affect everything else? so If I avoid this new pattern, how does that affect everything else and everyone else? And at some point, you you have this um inflection point where you're like, I have to make an integration. There has to be some level of change. And ah menopause was certainly one of those. And it's still a process, right? We're still in in the learning phase of it.
00:34:44
Speaker
And we we have over 60% of our communities women and our average age is mid 40s. So it's it's a very large population.
00:34:57
Speaker
And over the years I've had more and more women talk to me and ask questions and start to ask for answers. And I started to and dig into it myself and I was amazed and shocked and and then also amazed and shocked that I was amazed and shocked by the results, um which I shouldn't be. Like I should have known that women are underserved and they don't have the same amount of focus and in modern medicine as men, and you know all research and happens from men up to this point, most of it.
00:35:35
Speaker
And menopause is just one of those things where their providers go, this is part of your, this is part of life. This is part of the process. Deal with it, suck it up. And that's not good enough. And we have a unique situation potentially in knowing and seeing our ladies more than any other clinician in their life. And um and it the process is coming up with solutions by first understanding, truly understanding the problems, the functional problems and giving them a voice. you know And that that's kind of what we're doing now is the next phase of figuring out menopause solutions is truly understanding the problems and the day-to-day lives of um women that are dealing with that.
00:36:30
Speaker
It's going to start with like anything else with a conversation. so We're going to do a big forum for our members and hear them out and see what they've been going through and things that they haven't been able to figure out and how they've been dismissed by a lot of medical professionals.
00:36:46
Speaker
and then creating a problem list and then doing what we do best is is looking at the research and evidence of what does exist and then coming up with some solutions and testing them out, right? And that's just kind of following the scientific model. You can come up with a hypothesis, you come up with an objective that you want to accomplish, come up with an experiment, test it out and go from there.
00:37:09
Speaker
Well, there's a willingness on your end to, you know, adapt, which is a big deal. And there's a lot of elements with just listening, like you said, to the community, giving them a place where they can share their voice and creating ah other a safe
Golf as a Metaphor for Growth
00:37:24
Speaker
container for that. Those are all things that are not easily or dynamics that are you really have to be intentional about. ah So I just, I wanted to highlight that as one of the features of the gym is that you guys are not afraid, even if it takes time, all good things do that to do that. ah Gene, you have started a golf program and I just wanted to see if you could shift gears and just kind of touch on that a little bit and see what
00:37:54
Speaker
ah what you guys are doing, what you found with that, what's exciting about that for you guys. Thanks for going so well up to this point. It was such a good, well-informed podcast and then you have to bring golf into it. I mean, that's how I got into mental health. oh golf is just the absolute worst. Like it is the absolute worst. And once it hooks into you, there's no one hooking, you know, like it's, it there's, there's no, it's, it's, you're selling yourself up for failure.
00:38:30
Speaker
constant frustration, even when you win, you lose. it It's the ultimate um ultimate experience of understanding how alive you are, I think.
00:38:43
Speaker
ah um So, but I mean, golf, we just enjoy it, right? we We enjoy playing golf and I've worked with golfers over the years that dealt with pain, right? The injuries from golf and coming back to it. And again,
00:38:59
Speaker
sometimes it it's allowing your body to get into positions to even have the skill of it. But the challenge of it is so unique because all the all the factors are in front of you and that most sports don't have. and The ball's in front of you, the you know the weather conditions, you have the club, you have the hole, you see where to go, like you have the topography of of the land, like everything's in front of you and even the professionals suck at it. So it's it's a unique challenge, but there is also a big physical aspect to it. So we we our golf program was designed to be an in-between.
00:39:38
Speaker
traditional training and technical skill of it. So we if a golfer goes to a golf professional to work on their skill, and the golf bro goes here, you need to do this, and the and the person goes, I hear what you're saying, but my body literally cannot get into that position. but That's what we would come in.
00:39:59
Speaker
Um, or if they get better and their body get gets in that position and they hit the ball and the ball goes 20 yards less than they think it should, but they know that the potential is in them. That's kind of where we come in. And then of course, if people are hurt or injured, low back pain is the most common issue, not just in golf period. That's the the biggest burden on the medical system is low back pain. It's kind of hard to perform when you are dealing with pain.
00:40:23
Speaker
Um, so having like a specific skill set of that sports specific issue, that's kind of where we come in. So this kind of spectrum between dealing with pain, but also going, Hey, it's not just about pain. We can add performance. We can help you with the skill of it. We're not teaching you the skill of it, but we're going to work with your body to get you in those positions that, you know, will improve your golf game, um, and allow the golf professional to help you with the skill of it. That's kind of where we, where our golf program lives.
00:40:54
Speaker
That would have been very helpful for me back in the day. um There's so many more resources and information out there that can be helpful for people and and young, young golfers and athletes alike to help boost their performance and also the mental, you know,
00:41:13
Speaker
Anguish and and things that come ah along with that um and it's kind of nice thing about golf all most kidding aside um It's something you can keep doing for almost ever right you you can play into your 70s 80s 90s of teed off with with golfers um and it's social and you're outside like that there's other aspects of of health that comes with it that are just beyond hitting a golf ball. um um And it's so much more accessible than ever before, right? It and always had this aura of it's just for wealthy people and well-off people um and pretentious, but it's growing and it's opening up and it's, I think it's a great avenue for a lot of people to experience frustration and fury outside of nature.
00:42:06
Speaker
outside in nature, which is always beautiful. it's ah It's a good place to be mindful. That's for sure. It is. It is. You have plenty of opportunities to to challenge your mental fortitude playing golf.
00:42:19
Speaker
All right. And there you have it folks. Um, we're going to, to wrap up there. Uh, but a very special thanks to Dr.
Conclusion and Encouragement to Move
00:42:28
Speaker
Gene for sharing his expertise and passion with us. And, uh, please be sure to check out recharge modern health and fitness and the podcast movement is medicine, uh, for more incredible insights. Gene, is there any place else people can find you or anything else you want to add?
00:42:47
Speaker
No, that's perfect. I think it's a low blow finishing with golf, but it's, you know. A low blow. ah A little stroke, if you will. um yeah No, this was great. Really enjoyed chatting with you. It's great having you as part of this community as a resource in mental health. If people haven't taken advantage of of your services, they they so they certainly should.
00:43:14
Speaker
um that that I think a very unique combination as well of integrating a lot ah um dimensions of of mental health from from the traditional counseling to I think more integrative solutions is I think a good good unique approach that doesn't happen too often. It's usually siloed um in a lot of ways. um it It's been it's been glad great having you here picking your brain in a lot of ways and teeing off with you playing golf.
00:43:48
Speaker
Well, I appreciate you brother. And until next time, keep moving, thriving, and remember that your body is your temple. Gene, thank you so much. Be well, my man. See you soon. All right. Take care. Bye.