Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
#57: Finding the Courage with Scott and Krista Geller - COVID-19 Special
67 Plays5 years ago
In this star-studded episode of the Accidental Safety Pro, series host Jill James gets the opportunity to interview Scott and Krista Geller, who have been teaching and inspiring generations of safety and health professionals. Together, Scott and Krista founded the education and training organization, Actively Caring For People or AC4P. Come along for the ride as they discuss their areas of expertise and COVID-19
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Accidental Safety Pro
00:00:11
Speaker
This is the Accidental Safety Pro brought to you by Vivid Learning Systems and the Health and Safety Institute. This is a special edition of the podcast recorded on May 15th, 2020. My name is Jill James, HSI's Chief Safety Officer.
00:00:26
Speaker
Safety and health professionals, we're finding ourselves in a unique position during this pandemic.
Safety's Growing Role in Everyday Life
00:00:31
Speaker
One safety professional said to me recently, tongue in cheek, of course, we're the cool kids now, which of course refers to the fact that our profession, often viewed as a necessary evil, is suddenly front and center. People are even picking up our vernacular. We don't have to explain what PPE means or what N95 respirators or what face shields are anymore.
00:00:54
Speaker
Lay people are talking about our hierarchy of controls, and it all seems to have happened overnight. What we do every day is suddenly part of daily life at work and home for nearly every human being on the globe.
COVID-19's Unique Workplace Challenges
00:01:09
Speaker
Meanwhile, we safety and health professionals are looking at this pathogen like all other hazards we study and figure out how to mitigate and educate around. Except this time, this hazard is unique. The hazard that is the virus
00:01:23
Speaker
is new and you can bring it home and all employed persons can bring it from home to work. The death toll exceeds anything we've ever seen in our careers because of work, community and home exposures. And here's the catch. As we're trying to learn and do what we know works regarding risk mitigation, we have dozens and hundreds of voices who are armchair quarterbacking our work and we're trying to inform them of our profession and teach them all at the same time.
00:01:53
Speaker
And we're forming partnerships with other professionals at work or in our public health systems that maybe we've never had before. And all the while we're doing this, we realize that much of the risk mitigation that we're doing relies heavily on human beings modifying and changing their behaviors.
Introducing Scott and Krista Geller
00:02:13
Speaker
So how do we simultaneously educate those who may not understand our work and effectively change behavior?
00:02:21
Speaker
education and changing behaviors. Who better to consult than the Gellers? Scott and Krista, the father-daughter duo who has been teaching and inspiring generations of safety and health professionals, and they're both joining us today. If you've ever said the words behavior-based safety, Dr. Scott Geller said them first, literally.
00:02:41
Speaker
He wrote the book, and it's called Understanding Behavior-Based Safety, yet that wasn't his only book. In fact, there are 75 books and chapters addressing the development and evaluation of behavior change interventions to improve quality of life. And don't we need that now more than ever?
Scott Geller's Contributions to Behavior Change
00:02:58
Speaker
Dr. Geller is Alumni Distinguished Professor at Virginia Tech and Director of the Center for Applied Behavior Systems in the Department of Psychology and has been teaching for 50 years this year. He is a Fellow of the American Psychological Association, the Association for Psychological Science, and the World Academy of Productivity and Quality.
00:03:19
Speaker
And we also have Dr. Krista Geller with us today. Krista's mission is to inspire people to take time to actively care for the safety of themselves and others. Dr. Krista's master's and doctorate degrees from Virginia Tech are in human development. Krista has been a researcher at Virginia Tech's Center for Applied Behavior Systems and taught at Radford University, Virginia Tech, and King College.
00:03:43
Speaker
In 2012, Krista became the people-based safety and human performance improvement global manager for Bechdel Corporation, teaching employees to develop the competence and courage to actively care for the safety of themselves and their coworkers. Together, Scott and Krista founded the education and training organization, Actively Caring for People, or AC4P.
Podcasting During a Pandemic
00:04:08
Speaker
Welcome back to the show, Krista and Scott. Thank you.
00:04:13
Speaker
Thank you. Great introduction. Well, first off, tell our audience, how, how are you both and where are each of you joining us from today? Well, I was just, I was figuring my dad's probably sitting in his office and I hope he's wearing a mask. Whereas I am barricaded down in my basement. Um, been, been down here for a while now, ever since the virus kind of took over.
00:04:40
Speaker
I'm out here in Ashburn, Virginia, about four hours from where my father lives. It's been a while since the two of us have been in the same room, so it's quite fun to be on a guest on your show again, Jill, especially sitting
00:04:56
Speaker
you know, a little ways from my dad. So thank you for the invite letting us be here. No problem. No problem. So Scott is Krista, right? Are you at your office? I'm at my office. Nobody else is here. The campus is empty in its business way, as you know, for several weeks. And I've come to my office. I mean, that's
00:05:16
Speaker
I still come to my office and do my work here, and sometimes my students will come. Yes, I'm not wearing a mask now, but I do whenever I have students here. We have got permission. Of course, the place is locked, so we have to get a key to open up the door and come in. But we're still teaching. I'm lecturing to introductory psychology students a thousand,
00:05:46
Speaker
of those students and it's online instruction and wow it's taking more time than I ever thought it would. Yeah way different than 50 years ago when you started for sure.
Empathy in Safe Behaviors
00:05:59
Speaker
So today we wanted to talk about you know what's at the core of what you do and that's actively caring for people and some
00:06:12
Speaker
some tools we want to be able to share with safety profession today about things that we can do when it comes to the behaviors I talked about at the beginning. And so I'm wondering when it comes to promoting an actively caring spirit,
00:06:29
Speaker
What do we what would you both say is is the problem that's that's kind of prohibiting maybe that from happening right now with with with regard to with with regard to fear?
Human Resistance to Control
00:06:43
Speaker
Well, you know, the first thing I think about is how similar this situation is with the workplace, right? In the workplace, we have an attempt to control behavior. We top down control.
00:06:59
Speaker
And we get resistance. And of course, we're seeing the same thing on a global level. I mean, we have the government folks and passing laws and regulations, and people are resisting because people do not like to feel controlled. The word behavior modification is a turnoff to most people. That's why I think what's missing, one word, empathy, empathy.
00:07:29
Speaker
And we can talk about the need to be more humanistic, to try to see the situation from the other person's perspective. Hmm. Yeah. Krista, how about you? Well, you know why I want to say in the very beginning, you, you remarked on how one of your friends said, you know, finally in safety, we're the cool kids. You know, what's really interesting about that statement is yeah. So finally everyone's talking about PPE.
00:07:58
Speaker
You could say PPE to somebody that was outside of a safety market, maybe somebody that wasn't in the medical profession or wasn't in workplace safety, and they wouldn't have known what PPE meant. Now, isn't it funny how the world is almost completely educated on what it means when we say PPE? You go into a store and you've got your gloves and your mask, and in some cases, your safety glasses or a face shield to avoid coming in contact with the virus.
00:08:27
Speaker
What I find really interesting is, you know, one of the motivating comments I would always say to my teams is, you know, you want to take safety home with you. You know, when you, when you go home, you want to carry those safe practices that you did in the workplace and you want to do those same practices at home. And sometimes it was hard to get that message to carry through, you know.
00:08:51
Speaker
Maybe when they were driving at the job site, they drove much better. But then when they got out on the road and they weren't under the umbrella of their job, maybe their driving techniques changed. So it was hard to get people to carry safety home from the workplace to their couch. And isn't it interesting
00:09:11
Speaker
how in your face it is now that when if we have been at work or we have been in an office where there there is a possible outbreak of the virus and we go home now it's it's right there in our face the ripple effect is actually visible that we can see okay if i was in a contaminated area and i go home now i have the the ability to affect my family and it's it's it's right there at your fingertips whereas
00:09:37
Speaker
And in some other instances, texting and driving while you're driving home, you don't think about how that might affect your family. So it's interesting how it's right in the forefront of our brains and watching how people deal with that kind of information and how they continue to protect their family.
00:09:54
Speaker
It's very interesting to me. It's kind of done a turnover a little bit with our safety practices.
Safety Compliance in Public Spaces
00:10:01
Speaker
At the same time, you have people not wearing a simple face mask. You go into a Kroger and some of us are wearing them, other people are not. And you know what? People are saying exactly what they said in the workplace. It's not going to happen to me.
00:10:19
Speaker
I mean, look what's happening in a few states that opened up. People are going to the bars and they're interacting. And the same issue that we had in the workplace, it's happening in our world right now where some people are playing the game, doing the right thing, but so many people are not.
00:10:38
Speaker
Yeah, right. Yeah, I mean, if safety professionals can easily liken this to the person that said, I didn't need to put my fall protection on because it was a five minute job, you know, it was a it was a quick thing and or that doesn't apply to me or nothing could ever happen to me before. And we're so reliant right now as a global community on people choosing behaviors that protect all of us together. And we really want people to be doing the right thing.
00:11:07
Speaker
and to be proactive versus reactive, right? And the message we're hearing all the time now is we're all in this together. I mean, now we're, you know, we need to teach interdependency. We tried it in the workplace. Now, as Krista said, it's in our homes. So we need to talk about with our family and
00:11:31
Speaker
about we are in this together, which means it's not about independent, it's about interdependent. Easier said than done, but at least let's start there. And then what do you do if you see somebody not wearing a mask? Should you say something or someone is just too close, you know, you're in line and they're not appreciating the six foot distance and they're not wearing, what, do we say something?
00:12:00
Speaker
Yeah, right. Yeah, Krista, what do you have to say about trying to get people to do the right thing? Well, you know what? It's I think a lot of people like dad, you just said, which is such a good point. It won't happen to me. So now.
00:12:15
Speaker
It's like our whole world is a job site that I've walked for 20 years of my life. I feel like, yeah, I'm on a job site now, you know, whether I'm going to Walmart or I'm going to Harris Teeter, where I'm going, now I'm looking at people that aren't wearing their PPE. And so now I feel like a safety manager of all these folks. And so now it's, so how do I come across as not being that safety cop? Cause you know, I mean, I'm not kidding for, for,
00:12:41
Speaker
I guess for 20 years I've been in safety, but probably for about 12 to 15 years, probably more around 12, I've walked job sites and I've been out there. And one of the goals when you're walking a job site, as all of us safety professionals know, is you don't want to be labeled as that safety cop. You don't want to be seen as the person that's coming down on you. So how do you change your tone so that it's more of a suggestion rather than, you know, Hey, I see you doing that. It's wrong. Let me show you something else.
00:13:11
Speaker
You know, if you can change it into more of a suggestion and that's, that's okay. That's safety. So that's if we're seeing somebody use the wrong tool. That's if someone's not wearing their far protection correctly, but what about these people in the grocery stores? Hey, who I don't think see the big picture.
00:13:29
Speaker
you know, how their behavior is actually impacting others. So if I go to a store and they finally have bleach, because I have been waiting for them to have bleach, I just cannot get my hands on a bottle of bleach. But yeah. For me, it's isopropyl alcohol, but yes. Yeah. And what kills me, it's the people that are buying more than, I mean, I don't know why you would need more than one bottle of bleach.
00:13:56
Speaker
But it's the people that are going in there and they're buying more than what they need. And what that's doing is that's then impacting those of us that might've needed that single bottle, and now you've taken it from me. So is that the actively caring for people approach? And when that person buys up all the toilet paper or fills their cart or rolls two carts out of the store with all of it, are they taking in mind, hey,
00:14:23
Speaker
I'm being independent rather than interdependent. I'm not sharing my resources with everybody. I'm hoarding them from myself. And what I don't think they realize is the more you stockpile for yourself, the more you put others at risk. And if others are going to be at risk and we're all working on this same giant job site together, then you're also putting yourself at risk.
00:14:47
Speaker
because there's going to be a ripple effect of your behavior in how other people are able to get the products they need. And what about the fact that the person who's not wearing the face mask is putting you at risk? I mean, in the workplace,
00:15:04
Speaker
If they're not wearing fall protection, that's putting them at risk. But now we have a situation where their at risk behavior is putting others at
Frustration, Aggression, and Safety Goals
00:15:16
Speaker
risk. And so now it seems more important that we say something. And I think that's a major issue. How do we actively care?
00:15:27
Speaker
for the safety of a person who's simply not following the rules and putting you at risk for the disease.
00:15:35
Speaker
Yeah. And there seems to be so much, um, you know, frustration as well with people, um, both people who are trying to do the right thing and people that we would be urging to do the right thing. And I'm wondering if either of you would like to speak about, you know, what frustration does and what that can lead to as well. Well, you know, in psychology, we've known for years that frustration leads to aggression.
00:16:05
Speaker
I mean, it does. It can be passive aggression. It doesn't have to be physical, but it can be passive. It could be that some of the passive aggression is not following those basic rules.
00:16:22
Speaker
But yeah, we know that when this is, this is the, the utmost of frustration when you add uncertainty to it, you know, frustration means I'm not my reaching my goals is thwarted, but add to that the uncertainty of what I need to do to reach my goals. And yeah, we're in a very awkward situation now. And I think actively caring is more important than ever before, but how do we do that?
00:16:49
Speaker
And when you get that frustration, now you're creating distress. So now you're talking about stress versus distress, and then you're looking at your circle of control. And I think for, you know, what's really funny to me is, is if I walked into a store and I was the only one not wearing my face mask.
00:17:08
Speaker
I would be embarrassed. I, you know, I would, and that's what I find funny. Cause you know, you walk out on the job site and if most of the time, if you see someone not wearing their hard hat, they've most likely just forgotten it. They're not trying to buck the system. Um, but they, you know, then they get their hard hat back and oh yeah, I forgot my hard hat. It's just really interesting to me that those folks that are bucking the system.
00:17:34
Speaker
and not wearing their face masks, they're almost deliberately doing it because you walk into a store today and the percentage of people that you see wearing their face masks is very low, but they're there. And then for those of us that are following the rules, now you're talking about distress in my circle of control, and that's gonna cause even more frustration and anger on my part if I'm doing everything I'm supposed to do, but you're not doing what you're supposed to do.
00:18:02
Speaker
And let's talk about why we wear a face mask. I mean, someone could say, and it's probably true, the probability of me getting the disease because I didn't wear a face mask or spreading the disease is very, very low. So why do we do it? Well, we do it to set an example for others. Because if everybody wears a face mask, we're going to reduce the disease.
00:18:32
Speaker
So the point is, we wear our face masks to set the right example for other people, as I see it. So an actively caring perspective means you're not only doing it for yourself, but you're doing it to set the example for others.
00:18:47
Speaker
Yeah, and staying six feet apart from one another, you know, so we're not we're not risking that the circle of control, like you said, like you said, Krista for sure. Yeah. And so when we're looking at changing behaviors or modifying behaviors or encouraging a particular behavior,
Communication in Safety Feedback
00:19:06
Speaker
Scott, I know you have said before that behavior based safety can fail when it lacks a certain something. Do you want to talk about that? Well, you have to have communication. You know what they did, they went the efficient route.
00:19:25
Speaker
create a checklist and you write down what's safe and what's not safe, pretty easy. And then you hand it over to a data filer and they plug in that data, we got percent safe, but they missed the ingredient is communication. And by the way, we need communication here with this, like I've said, what do you tell the person? And how do you tell a person?
00:19:55
Speaker
when they're doing the wrong thing. That takes humanism, by the way. That takes a non-directive approach. When it comes to acknowledging safe behavior, thanking people, we have to do more of that, sure. We take that for granted. We have to thank people. We're hearing people thanking
00:20:15
Speaker
thanking the frontline workers these days. We need more of that. But what happens when you see somebody too close or not wearing a face mask? How do you give them corrective feedback?
00:20:30
Speaker
Yeah. So let's talk about that. As our safety professionals are listening and they're thinking, I've done this, I've done some of this. I've done some feedback, giving feedback before in the workplace. And now we're all trying to learn how to do it in our community and public lives for those of us who are going anywhere right now.
00:20:54
Speaker
But how maybe what would be some prescriptive ideas that you could each think of that we could share with our audience that they might use for giving feedback? What might they say or how might they approach it? Well, I think one one thing I want to bring up is almost you can almost do it by setting the right example.
00:21:18
Speaker
So just as an example, I was in the store, I was waiting in line to have the tape on the floors to stand the appropriate distance away from the person. And I could tell the person in front of me would be uncomfortable if I started putting my groceries on the conveyor belt as they were wrapping up. I could tell they were giving me that body language. So point number one,
00:21:42
Speaker
I was aware of the person around me and I think that's one tip is be aware of the people around you. People will give off a perfect example or a perfect feeling for how they're feeling if you're getting too close.
00:21:57
Speaker
And this person was giving me the eye as if, you know, you better not start putting your groceries up. So I did. I waited. I waited till he was completely done and pushing his card away. And then I started loading my groceries because the last thing I wanted to do was create more angst and anxiety for him. And I noticed as it was, my groceries were winding up. The guy behind me just started immediately putting his on the belt and
00:22:20
Speaker
That would have been a perfect coaching moment for me to educate that person behind me because if I were to guess, I would say that that person was just completely unaware of their behavior. It's like texting when you're walking or texting when you're driving, just unaware of how they're holding up other people or how their behavior is affecting others. I think that's one of our biggest problems as a society.
00:22:43
Speaker
is we don't often stop, look around and say, how is what I'm doing right now affecting the people around me?
00:22:51
Speaker
And so that would have been a perfect coaching moment. I didn't take the moment. I spent more time analyzing it. Thanks for those genes, father. I spent more time analyzing what the situation was like, but had I educated him, I bet you he would have carried that forward, but I would have had to do it right. And my tips for people out there is my point would have been kindly say, hey, sir,
00:23:19
Speaker
You know, just with, with everything going on, I'm, I'm just a little uncomfortable with the six foot thing. I'm, um, would you mind if, if I wrapped up my, my purchasing before you started loading your groceries and I'm, I'm willing to bet if I said that in the voice that I had and I was calm and apologetic. And I think one way you can get away from something and get away from, from causing a negative reaction is if you take it on the chin, if you say, Hey, look, I'm really sorry.
00:23:47
Speaker
but this is making me just a little bit uncomfortable. I have children at home. I live with an older parent. I mean, whatever excuse you want to put out there to kind of take the pressure off of them and say, would you mind if I finished what I was doing before you started?
00:24:04
Speaker
coming in and putting your groceries down. And I think that by alleviating them from being the bad guy, it's the same thing in safety. When you see somebody not wearing their safety glasses, the last thing you want to do is walk up and shake your finger at them. So you want to find a creative way that takes them off of a negative pedestal and puts them up on a positive pedestal. And there's always some sort of communication style to do that. And the best one that I found for myself is
00:24:33
Speaker
just to take the blame for myself, apologize, and say, hey, can I talk to you about something? And Kristin, like you asked the question, would you mind? Right. I mean, you're not telling them what to do. You're saying, is it OK? Because I feel uncomfortable. Yeah, brilliant. I feel uncomfortable this close. And yes. Yeah, that's. And you know, that is humanism.
00:25:00
Speaker
That's a humanistic approach, and that's the word empathy that I said earlier. You want to have empathy for them, but you want they to have empathy for you. Really, if you just step back and think of others in terms of, you know, it's the golden rule is really the platinum rule is treat others the way they want to be treated. So we have to think about how, what would they want?
00:25:29
Speaker
Yeah, so Christy, you said on you talked about setting examples by demonstrating, which all safety professionals know, and this is this is really good that we're that we're setting an example. And then, like you both said, using those powerful words, would you mind, or I feel uncomfortable? Those are those are great. And then
00:25:52
Speaker
What about the piece of showing gratitude? I know, I think Scott, you said something about showing gratitude. Where does kind of that fit into a cadence with when you're asking someone to do something? Well, first we have to say that the researchers of positive psychology, gratitude turns out to be one of the most powerful things which we don't do enough. You know, we talk about
00:26:19
Speaker
rewarding people, but gratitude is thanking them. So let's say that that person did step back when Christa talked with him, that he did say, oh, I'm sorry. He said, I'm sorry. I didn't realize it. Wow. Then it's Christa's turn to say, thank you. I appreciate that. I mean, we don't do enough of that. And maybe we're learning, however,
00:26:42
Speaker
because we're showing gratitude for the frontline workers in the hospitals, the truck drivers bringing us our products. I mean, we're seeing it now, so maybe that's going to be one of the changes. We'll see a greater appreciation for what
00:26:59
Speaker
others do to keep the system, systems thinking, as Krista mentioned, keeping the system intact, showing gratitude. By the way, it's powerful on both sides. The person receiving gratitude
00:27:13
Speaker
feels better, but also giving gratitude makes you feel good. Yeah. Yeah.
Courage in Addressing Unsafe Behaviors
00:27:21
Speaker
You know, Krista, one of the things that you said a moment ago when you were giving your example of being in the grocery store is you didn't take the opportunity to do that coaching at the time. And I think that's something we, any of us who have been working in the safety field for long enough, we've either experienced it ourselves or seen it in others.
00:27:43
Speaker
where people haven't had the courage to speak up. And I'm not saying that you weren't courageous that day, but there's something that happens within human behavior, which is interesting. And I'm going to branch out here and use a political example because I think everyone listening has probably seen this, but what struck me from a safety perspective is the day that our
00:28:11
Speaker
Vice President went to the Mayo Clinic, and everyone around him was wearing a mask, as was required in that workplace, just like if you were asked to wear safety glasses, and he wasn't. And it was, you know, a body of leaders, right? There wasn't a person among them that wasn't a leader that day. And leaders are strong people.
00:28:35
Speaker
But no one had the courage, right? And so not unlike your example in the grocery store, Krista, not unlike the example that I just put out there with one of the leaders of our country. But we in safety have all seen that and experienced that, whether we're investigating accidents and we hear someone say,
00:28:55
Speaker
I knew in my gut that was wrong, but, you know, I didn't want to say anything to them. You know, we've heard these same things and seen these same things throughout our entire careers. How can we help people find that courage and teach that courage to others or give people permission to have courage? Yeah, that's such a good question, too, because
00:29:21
Speaker
You know, I questioned myself after afterwards because I thought, wow, I didn't have, I didn't have the courage to do it. And I would have changed. I would have changed probably one person's perspective that probably would have made him more aware of the situation from that point forward. So I had a brilliant opportunity in front of me to educate and teach somebody, you know, Hey, look at your surroundings, you know,
00:29:50
Speaker
be mindful of where you are and what you're doing. And it's funny because the guy in front of me, the way he kept watching me really caused me to be mindful of my behavior. And I've actually learned from that very moment. I've kept it in my brain. I was at the store the other day and I wanted to get something, but a woman was standing right there next to it. And I thought, well, I'll wait till she walks away before I lean in and grab it. And I thought back to that,
00:30:19
Speaker
situation and it's kind of like you said, dad, with the platinum rule is I said to myself, I don't know how she wants me to treat her right now, but I'm going to treat her as if she doesn't want me to come near her. I'm going to treat her with the same respect of that six foot rule as I'm, I'm treating everybody. And you know, when you say how some people don't chime in and say something, I, I really feel like sometimes we think, well, somebody else will do it.
00:30:47
Speaker
Somebody else will be in this situation. They'll see it and they'll take care of it because as a safety professional, those of us that have walked the job and we've done a behavioral observational program and we've had to get that courage and go up and tell somebody, listen, I got a safer way you can be doing that behavior. It takes, I mean, a book of courage. You really have to be tough and you have to have such a, I've been, I've walked with two kinds. I've walked with that safety professional.
00:31:16
Speaker
That's just one of the worst coaches out there. And then I've walked with that one that could just, I mean, sell ice at an igloo. I mean, he's absolutely amazing and has that talent to just really communicate. And I believe some people who don't step forward, I also believe they know they don't have the right coaching techniques to actually provide that person the corrective feedback.
00:31:41
Speaker
Cause I wonder when they did not see him wearing the mask or vice president, did they say to themselves, somebody else is going to do it? Did it, was it because they were lacking courage or was it because they really didn't feel like they had the ability to give him that message the way he needed to receive it? You know, by now we, now you're talking about bystander apathy.
00:32:04
Speaker
Right. The more people observing, the less will any one person step in because we have what's called diffusion of responsibility. As Christa just said, somebody else will do it. And the other thing that Christa said that I find very important is.
00:32:19
Speaker
She didn't say it, but I'm saying it, self-talk. She talked to herself. Right. After that one event, she walked off saying, you know, I should have said something. So here's what people need to do. They need to look for these situations. And when they didn't have the courage, they didn't know what they should have done is reflect on that, you know, talk about it because we can all do better. But here's it, you know, you got the word courage.
00:32:48
Speaker
But there's another word that I think is just as important. It's a word, humility. Having the humility. And so, or even perceive that somebody has the humility to accept your feedback. So, and then, but there's another word too, integrity. After you get that feedback, will I change my behavior?
00:33:13
Speaker
Do I have the integrity? Now, by the way, our vice president, I'm told, is now wearing a face mask. You know, he got feedback. He got feedback and he had the integrity to say, you know, that's right. But I'm not sure that anybody has ever told him that the reason to do that is to set an example.
00:33:35
Speaker
I think, quite frankly, I think our president needs that message. It's not about keeping you safe or not spreading your germs. It's about setting the example so that, again, as I said earlier, if we all did it, we're going to beat this thing.
00:33:56
Speaker
Yeah. Well, setting the example, don't we all know that as safety professionals, right? We know as safety professionals, like we are checking, double checking, triple checking ourselves before we go into any situation to go, do we have the right personal protective equipment? Have I paid attention to my surroundings before I step onto this area or into that work area? Have I looked at where I should be standing, shouldn't be standing? What's swinging over my head? You know, our brains are analyzing all the systems because we know that we have to set the example.
00:34:25
Speaker
As leaders, we have to set the example. And the other people who's watching. Yes, I think that's that's that's the big one. You know, when you're on a safety project and you're on a job site, you're you're being watched whether whether you know it or not. And same in the grocery stores. You know, I would be embarrassed to load my cart with more items than I need because I want to set the example to other folks. Hey, this is all I need right now. Grocery stores not going anywhere. Everything's getting getting stockpiled.
00:34:55
Speaker
I'll tell you something interesting, though. It took it took the grocery stores around my area a while for them to hang the sign and start limiting people. And I kind of wish they had jumped on the ball a little bit sooner and had when they started seeing it fly off the shelves, you know, put those restrictions because ever since they've put those restrictions, things have improved. But I want to ask the question.
00:35:21
Speaker
When, in, in, this is a courage question, you know, if I was working the register and somebody were to come up with two packs of toilet paper, the question you have then is the person behind the register, are they going to have the courage to say, I'm sorry, Madam, I'm sorry, sir. You're only able to buy one of those right now. So you wonder, you know, we can hang those signs and limit you to one, just like we do on this safety site. We say, Hey.
00:35:47
Speaker
Safety glasses, hey, hard hat, hey, fall protection. We put those activators all over the place. So we have the activators in the grocery store. Then you have the behavior. Is the person grabbing one pack of toilet paper or two? And then when they get to pay, are they going to have the person behind the desk actually apply the consequence? Or are they going to actually hold them accountable for the behavior and say, hey, you know what?
00:36:11
Speaker
you have two packs of toilet paper, you're only restricted to one. And I'm willing to bet not very many of them are going to do that, because I'm willing to bet, I'm sure there are some, and hats off to those brave men and women who are doing that, because if you think about it, they're working a job where that was never in the job description. I mean, think about it, they're working, now they have to interface with the customer, and now they have to say, hey, I'm sorry, you can't purchase that, you have more than what you're allowed.
00:36:39
Speaker
And so that's going above and beyond for some of the people working in these roles. And you just wonder, are they able to pass along that consequence?
00:36:50
Speaker
Yeah, right. And I, you know, I'm thinking about, you hit on something, right? They never thought this was going to be part of the job, and now suddenly it is. Just like all of us living our lives right now, whether we're at work or whether we're in our communities, we're having to muster up courage, right? And when you're mustering up courage to do something uncomfortable, something happens to our bodies physically when we're trying to do that too. You know, I think about the
00:37:19
Speaker
The time where I have to muster the most courage to ask people to do something differently is at a gas pump. So you know the people who don't turn off their engines when they're fueling?
00:37:34
Speaker
And there's all the activators, all the signs around you that say turn off the vehicle. And we know that explosions happen. One happened in my neighborhood last year where a gas pump blew up at the place I normally go to fuel. And for years,
00:37:53
Speaker
I don't feel if someone's vehicle is running. Sometimes I'm like, I don't have the courage today. I'm driving to a different gas station. Yes. And some days I pull up, I get out of my vehicle, I look at the person whose vehicle is running and I say, would you mind turning off your vehicle?
00:38:13
Speaker
Have you done that? Oh, many, many times. Oh, amazing. Many times. And it's it's I no one has ever yelled at me. I'll get kind of those snorts like.
00:38:28
Speaker
They get that, but they do it. Yes, but they do it. And but what happens in my body every time is like I'm sort of shaking. And I've, you know, I've been a badge carrying safety professional that worked for OSHA who had lots of hard conversations. But that one always makes me get just a little bit wiggly. And so I'm guessing there's a lot of people right now who are trying to muster courage, who are having that physical symptom. You know, can you guys talk about that too and kind of
00:38:58
Speaker
what people are feeling and experiencing what they should do with that. But here's the point I want to make. You're a safety professional. Chris is a safety professional. So when you don't do the right thing, you experience what many people heard the word cognitive dissonance, inconsistent. You didn't do this, you didn't speak up. So I was inconsistent now.
00:39:26
Speaker
other people don't label themselves as safety professionals. They're just citizens in the community doing their job. I think the challenge is to give everybody the label, not safety professional, but everybody has a label of do you care? Do you care about not only your safety, but others? So it's kind of like
00:39:50
Speaker
It's a social label. If I have a label, and by the way, one way to give people a label is through recognizing them, thanking them for the good deed they did. Wow, you kept that distance. Thank you. You are really thinking about the health.
00:40:10
Speaker
of everybody. And now, then a person takes that in, that's their self talk. And now they have the label, just like you guys have the label safety professional. Now I have the label, I was given the label, but I care about people's health and safety with regard to COVID-19. So all of a sudden, wow, I have to now live up to that label. Living up to that label means I have to do the right thing or I'll experience
00:40:40
Speaker
cognitive dissonance, an inconsistency between my label and my behavior. But I want to hit on Jill's point here for a second with these so-called caring individuals having to enforce
00:40:57
Speaker
the law. So, you know, Jill getting the heebie skeebies when you have to tell somebody to turn off their car engine. And it's really interesting, too, because I'm totally with you. I mean, if that person looks unapproachable, I'm going to go to a different gas tank. But what we're dealing with now is, and this is where I've had a lot of empathy, is now we're dealing with
00:41:21
Speaker
you know, basic cashiers working at their store and dad, I believe they care. I believe they care about the health, but they've got some threatening looking individual rolling up with two packs of toilet paper. How do they get the courage? You know, I could see myself saying, you know what, I'll let this one go, but I'll get the next one. I mean, I could see myself coming up with those excuses because
00:41:47
Speaker
I mean, we've all been cussed out on the job site. I mean, up and down. And I remember working with the people-based safety team, which sometimes was called People Be Snitching Team. So that was a label we had to adjust. And I talked to this young lady and she said, well, I got cussed out again today. And she sat down and she just looked like the wind was kicked out of her. And I said, what makes you continue going back?
00:42:17
Speaker
And she said, because I care. And I will never forget that because she took the beatings. And, but this is what I, what I really want to point to is what Jill said earlier is, is that we, we are safety professionals. So yeah, we're, we're used to taking the beatings. We've been there. I mean, even with, and, and you know, it's funny, Jill with the gas, you wonder, do other people recognize, Hey, you know, you're, you're not,
00:42:45
Speaker
doing your cars on. Do other people actually recognize that the car is, you know, do they even know that that's at risk? But because we're safety professionals, we're a little bit more on top of the risks that are out there, so we know. And so we have the courage to do it. But I look at these cash registers, these people working in the store, they have been handed this duty
00:43:10
Speaker
you know, to actively care for people, you know, to actively hold a consequence. And, you know, some of these people are just bright in their twenties. And I don't know if I would have had the courage at 20 years old to hold somebody accountable for the rule or the regulation that we're passing in that store. So, you know, I believe they care. But I don't think that some of these people have been equipped
00:43:38
Speaker
with the courage to do the right decision. I mean, look at me, I was in Walmart. And whether it was courage or whatever it was, something stopped me from asking the gentleman to wait till I had left the scene. And so, you know, I'm a safety professional, so that stopped me. So I can only imagine the butterflies you have in your stomach when you know you're supposed to hold somebody accountable, but you're not sure of how to do it.
00:44:08
Speaker
That's the key, Krista, how to do it.
Effective Corrective Feedback
00:44:12
Speaker
In fact, that's the problem with behavior-based safety. We tell people you're supposed to give feedback after you do your observations, but I've never been taught how to give feedback. When someone makes a mistake, when they aren't doing the wrong thing, as we talked earlier,
00:44:31
Speaker
How do you tell them? That's not easy. That's not easy. Yeah, let's talk more about that. What other what other tools would you suggest to our listeners that they could use? We've talked about we've talked about a few already, you know, entering with entering with humility, of course. And, you know, like you had said, Krista, taking it on the chin yourself and, you know, using those sentences, would you mind or I feel uncomfortable?
00:44:58
Speaker
Um, and being aware of people around you, what, what other things might you, might you share with our audience that they could use? Ask more questions. Put it in terms of questions. We said this earlier too, but you know, as Krista said, that makes me feel uncomfortable, but ask them, ask them, is there a safer way to do that? Or, or is, I mean, it still takes courage to do that, but it's, it's being humanistic. It's kind of looking at their situation.
00:45:28
Speaker
and kind of asking them, that's your no, we're going to get ownership, is if you ask them and they say, oh yes, I should have done this, I should have done this, I should have worn the mask. When they say it, then you're going to more likely get that behavior from them.
00:45:49
Speaker
Um, but we're in a click it or ticket society right now, aren't we? I mean, we're in this, we're in this top down control with people telling us what to do. And we're getting a lot of reactants. We're getting a lot of counter control. And that's, that's also a sad state of affairs, but how do you, I don't, you know, that's the problem. People do not like to be told what to do. Yeah. Krista thoughts.
00:46:17
Speaker
Well, I think one of the things too, and dad, you've brought it up and we've mentioned it a couple of times, is I think it's teaching empathy. Is I think it's putting yourselves in the shoes of that other person and figuring out, you know, how can you best approach them? And, you know, in some situations with some of my safety folks, I had to refer to the rules and regulations. If they were really in a tight spot and they were uncomfortable taking it on the chin, sometimes you can always blame
00:46:48
Speaker
the boss and say, well, you know what, this is the rule and regulation. So, you know, I'll go back to that cashier example, you know, your example could be, Hey, I'm really sorry. This is the rule and regulation of the store right now. We really can only allow you to buy one. So again, you're approaching them with an empathic, um, kind, apologetic way, but then you're blaming it on someone else. And sometimes that's sometimes that's how you have to do it. And, you know, in, in,
00:47:18
Speaker
some of the people based safety groups that I had. Sometimes again, you don't have the strongest coaches. And so if they're not that strong and it's easier for them to have a higher power to kind of throw the ball at, that's what I asked them to do. And sometimes that's the easiest way. I mean, sometimes it's easier to say, I shouldn't speed because the police officer will catch me. Because sometimes it's hard for people to say, I shouldn't speed because I'm putting myself and others at risk.
00:47:47
Speaker
sometimes we're so blinded by our own lives that we don't realize again, like we said at the beginning, how our behavior affects others around us. So sometimes stopping somebody from speeding is, well, there's a cop ahead rather than you could kill somebody because what happens there is, oh, it won't ever happen to me. But almost everybody's received a police ticket or a speeding ticket or been involved or saw one. So it's easier to relate to that experience and say, well, you might get a ticket.
00:48:16
Speaker
and then get them thinking about the consequence part of it and that smaller consequence rather than, well, you could kill somebody because, you know, not a lot of us have that experience to relate to. So sometimes you've got, again, like dad, like you said, look at the platinum rule, find out what you can relate to with that individual. And I think it speaks to, you know, our, our experts out there, Charlie Morcraft and Tony Crow,
00:48:40
Speaker
the way they tell their stories and the way they empathically affect the audience and they pull you in and they draw you into this is what happened to me, this is what I did, and these are the rules I broke. You know, when I say take safety home with you, that's Tony Crow's story. He wore his safety glasses for 25 years, but he didn't wear them when he went home. And that's one of our key carries. And so one of the things that will strike me is
00:49:09
Speaker
How will this, surviving this virus and what we've all gone through, how will this affect workplace safety? Will we be more mindful of our safety at hand because we've been in this crisis? And how long will it last? Because then dad, it goes back to one of my favorite psychology terms is extinction.
00:49:29
Speaker
You know, how long will we feel the impact of this before it's extinct? And we go back to our regular everyday behaviors. We do know it'll stick around for a while. I do think we'll feel it for a while, but we always end up reverting back to our regular behavior unless we had dad's favorite word, behavior modification. Yeah. Well, let me just respond. First, Chris, that you're talking about emotion.
00:49:58
Speaker
we have to get emotional about this. And the second thing, Krista, you said that sometimes you have to refer to the cop. Well, let's get back to the lady selling the cashier. If she had that sign, the activator, right at her cash register, so the customer could see it,
00:50:20
Speaker
Then she can just point to the sign, it's not me, it's a rule. And some of these stores need to start to say, it's our rule and make it very visible. So then the people who are selling the product, they can say, it's not my fault, but that's the rule we have to follow. So make those activators out there and let those cashiers refer to them. That relates to what Krista said about sometimes you have to say, that's the rule.
00:50:48
Speaker
But another word I think we really need to spread around and we said it before, it's humility. Continuous improvement requires that we all realize that we don't have all the answers, that there's always room for improvement. Every one of us, I mean, even at my age, almost 80 years old, I realized that I have a lot of improvement I can do and we have to have the humility
00:51:17
Speaker
to accept feedback. The humility, how about this? Ask for feedback. Another approach you can say is, am I okay? Is this distance okay for you? Are we comfortable? I mean, the point is we just need to open up a little more and realize we're not in this alone. We're in this together.
00:51:40
Speaker
Yeah, I love what you're saying about blaming the boss and using the activators. You know, it's what we teach our kids, right? When we're raising, and Scott, I'm wondering if you did this with Crystal when she was little. If you need to get out of some kind of situation card, blame your parent.
00:52:02
Speaker
I know my mom told me that. She's like, if you ever need to get out of the situation, you just blame me. Blame me every single time. My mom won't let me do that. My mom said this, my mom said that. It's a rule around here. And I know I've taught my son the same thing as a teenager. Oh, yes. In all the research experiments we had, any time you would say, if you get in trouble or anything happens, just blame me, it's fine.
00:52:25
Speaker
that cigarette study that you had interviewed on us on last time. That was the first thing I yelled out was it's my dad's fault. So I, you know, I, yeah, he did teach me that to, to blame him. And I'll tell you what though, that is blaming the boss is one surefire way to kind of get yourself off the hook, but still share that message and get the point across. And it's like you said, dad, if they have the activator, I don't think people use activators enough.
00:52:55
Speaker
I think we assume, for instance, before I enter any store, I am as fast as I can grazing any sign and every sign that's on the door. What's required in here, what do they want? And it's really shocking to me that there's no signs that are really stating what they want my behavior to be. And I think if people were to use activators more, because I think what they need to recognize is we're not always coming into the store as educated public.
00:53:23
Speaker
We don't always know what your rules and regulations are. You're having a closed-store conversation. Share it with the rest of us. And I think that activators hang the sign. Let me know what's going on. They do have tape on the floor, which bravo to them. I think that's wonderful. They're not leaving it up to us to decide what six feet looks like. But I do wish that more stores would take that under consideration.
00:53:50
Speaker
working on the job sites, um, you know, the guys would go use the bathroom or they would go eat lunch. And sure enough, so many of them would forget their gloves. And so we would, they'd be back on the job site doing the work and they would not have their gloves. And a lot of times they're halfway through the job and they, they don't even realize they have them. And so it would take me showing up. And as soon as I show up, I'm the activator right there. Oh, well, you know, what, what do I, what am I missing? And they look down and realize it don't have their gloves. Right. So,
00:54:19
Speaker
What my point was to everybody was hang signs, put them in the port-a-potty, put them in the bathrooms. Did you forget your gloves? Put them in the lunchroom. I don't think we need to be embarrassed if it takes a sign to remind us. I use sticky notes. I use things on my phone. I send myself emails. We all know that's what human performance is, is figuring out what we need to know in order to avoid an error.
00:54:49
Speaker
And I know myself and I know I'm going to forget. I know dad's going to forget my goodness. So what am I going to do in order to spur on his memory, my memory? And so I don't think people should be ashamed of, oh, well, I have to hang all these signs. And sometimes I would, you know, the employees would say to me, oh, we don't need to hang the signs. That makes me feel like they think I'm stupid. No, that's not what it is. We're hanging a sign as a reminder.
00:55:16
Speaker
It's just like a police officer on the side of the road. The police officer's there to just remind you, hey, you're driving on the road. Do you remember? Are you mindful of the fact that you're driving or are you off in la-la land? Do you recognize that you're on the road right now? Great. That's what you should see them there for. Not as someone who's going to write you a ticket, but as somebody who's sitting on the side of the road to remind you, oops,
00:55:38
Speaker
Could you be going a little too fast? Have you taken your car for inspection? So I think that those activators are our first real conversation piece into getting that behavior modification across. Yeah, and for our safety professionals who are listening and we're using a lot of examples in community life, which is excellent, I think this also translates into workplaces, right? So everyone in their workplaces right now are trying to figure out
00:56:06
Speaker
Okay, we've got to do training with our employees. We have to inform them. We're teaching them about six feet. We're teaching them about masking. We're teaching them about eye protection.
00:56:14
Speaker
Okay, now are we done? Or do, or, you know, to really think through job tasks, you know, just like job hazard analysis, job safety analysis that we've all done forever. When it comes to this, we're really having to re-engineer the way we're doing work and really thinking about what are those activities that employees are engaged in where they might, where they're used to like being shoulder to shoulder with one another, or we have to do this lift, or we have to do this.
00:56:41
Speaker
And they think, well, I just the muscle memory is you go back to what you knew. And it's on us as as setting the example and doing the work to show them different ways to do things to minimize their exposure in a way we didn't think we were going to have to engineer around. Right. And we're going to keep doing it and doing it and doing it and realize that they might not know.
00:57:03
Speaker
Right. I mean, you all, we all know you're, you're, you're the safety experts, but they might, they might be the word we use is unconsciously incompetent. And so they need to be educated. Just like we talked earlier, they don't know how to give corrective feedback the right way, or they've given, they've told somebody they're making a mistake and they've got a nasty response. So they've been punished for giving corrective feedback. And so again, I think one missing link in many organizations
00:57:33
Speaker
whether we're talking about COVID-19 or whether we're talking about safety in the workplace, is how do you communicate to give supportive feedback and corrective feedback? Scott, you've used the word coach before as an acronym. Would that be something that would apply here? Oh, I love it. Yeah. Can you walk us through that? Yes. I mean, thank you. I think we all should teach people what the letters of coach mean.
The COACH Feedback Model
00:58:02
Speaker
You know, the first letter is a C and that stands for care. Know that I care and you'll care what I know. I care so much, I'm willing to oh, observe you.
00:58:16
Speaker
observe and see what you're doing right and where there's room for improvement. I didn't say what you're doing wrong. There's always room for improvement. And while I'm observing you, the next letter of coach is an A for analyze. I'm looking at the environment. I'm looking at the situation that might be facilitating at risk behavior.
00:58:39
Speaker
Or maybe something is there that needs to be promoting safe behavior, but it's analyzing because safe behavior doesn't happen in a vacuum. So there are situations, factors out there influencing that behavior. And then the big word, the other C word, the one that we miss so often, we've been talking about it here today, communicate. Communicate. What did you see?
00:59:08
Speaker
There's room for improvement and ask questions when it's about corrective feedback. And if you do all that well, the last letter of coach is help. Don't you love it? I mean, those letters, that's what we all should become.
00:59:25
Speaker
We should feel comfortable, have the courage to coach, and we all should have the humility to accept coaching and then have the integrity to adjust our behavior when we know we could have done better.
Empathy and Assumptions in Safety
00:59:44
Speaker
And dad, we know what I love about this is exactly what you said a minute ago is the help. Ask.
00:59:51
Speaker
Am I making you uncomfortable? Am I standing too close? Would it be okay if I started putting my groceries on the conveyor belt? Ask people, take the time to say, and I think like you said it earlier, I don't think we talk enough. We've got our goggles on and we're coming into the store, we're doing what we need to do and we're leaving. And we're not taking the time to say, hey, am I making you uncomfortable? Is this okay?
01:00:19
Speaker
And so I find that that's something, and maybe I learned it from you, maybe I learned it from the research, but I find myself always evaluating the environment around me, the people around me, and how I might be affecting them. And you can tell immediately if you're making somebody feel uncomfortable. And I think that I am very aware of that and what kind of message I'm sending.
01:00:45
Speaker
And so I think that if people were to start to do that and don't just assume, you know, here comes your PCC, the word you taught me a long time ago, premature cognitive commitment. And this is Jill, how I've won many arguments with him. He should never have taught me premature cognitive commitment because now I'm a genius with it. And what it basically is, is you're making a decision prematurely.
01:01:09
Speaker
You're going to decide prematurely before you've collected all the necessary data on that decision. And you're making it cognitive because you're making it in your brain and you're committing to it. So I'm going to walk into a store and I might immediately create a negative thought about somebody because she's letting her child run around the store. I might immediately create a PCC, you know, why can't she control her child? And that's where we have to be careful.
01:01:35
Speaker
is that we are assuming. So if I'm standing somewhere and somebody's giving me an evil look or some sort of look, I should never assume that my behavior is bothering her. Again, I'm going to throw another celebrity out there, Judge Judy. She teaches us, don't assume what someone is thinking.
01:01:55
Speaker
just their behavior and it comes down to you got to be careful that you don't label a behavior. If I'm crossing my arms, I'm crossing my arms. That's the behavior. Don't assume I'm crossing my arms because I'm bored. Don't assume I'm crossing my arms for any other reason. I'm crossing my arms. And so if I see a lady that's going to give me a nasty look or something, don't assume she's giving me the nasty look. Maybe she's looking past me. Take the time and ask.
01:02:18
Speaker
Find a comfortable way to say, are you okay? Am I making you uncomfortable? And that kind of thing. And that's why I love the coach acronym because it puts it out there. First off, I'm asking you because I want to show you that I care. If I'm making you uncomfortable, I would like to change my behavior. And I think we all jump into PCCs. We all immediately go somewhere and make a decision based on the data around us. And rather than spending time collecting it
01:02:49
Speaker
You never know what's going on in somebody's mind. And I think if we were to take the time to communicate more and ask those necessary questions, we would get the answers we're looking for. Let me throw out one point, one more humanistic point that connects to what Krista just said, intention.
01:03:06
Speaker
What are your intentions? See humanists, they don't go for the behavior. They want to know what the intentions were. Right. So you're crossing your arms. What are your intentions? Just a point to say that, you know, we've been, we've been talking about behaviorism, but we're also talking about need to be humanistic words like, um, you know, empathy and intention.
Actively Caring: Humanistic Behaviorism
01:03:31
Speaker
In fact, actively caring is humanistic behaviorism. Because active is behavior, caring is humanism. So that's why we claim that the actively caring for people movement is humanistic behaviorism.
01:03:46
Speaker
that's right that's right as we're as we're wrapping up our time today I feel if you can hear in the background someone is mowing next to my window right now and and gosh is this the time where I like use my courage as this person to not mow you know I feel
01:04:06
Speaker
that maybe mowing would be better later today. No, I won't be doing that. But thank you for teaching me and thank you for teaching our audience as well today.
New Book on Safety Psychology
01:04:18
Speaker
I know that the two of you have a new book. Do you want to share with our audience what your book is about? Oh, I would love to do that. We just sent it to the printers yesterday.
01:04:31
Speaker
Oh, wow. Yeah. And it's, it's, um, it's the title is the human dynamics of achieving an injury free workplace safety directives from psychological science. It has 10 chapters. Each chapter is an objective, which is an outcome. Okay. And with, with each outcome are directives.
01:04:57
Speaker
And so it's, you know why we wrote this? We wrote it so others could teach the psychology of safety. I mean, we have seen so many people teaching a very narrow perspective with regard to human dynamics. And I'm not blaming them. We're not blaming them. They just haven't been educated. So now we want to educate you with a workbook that you can use to teach others.
01:05:26
Speaker
And that's, that's again, passing it on. That's, that's again, teaching others how they can help others be safe. And the book will be available at, at the website, galerac4p.com.
01:05:42
Speaker
And when I think one more thing to add with that dad is, you know, each objective, it almost could be used as a toolbox talk or as some sort of, um, kickoff for your safety meetings. I don't know if you guys have ever been in the safety meeting where the presenter is actually sitting down or they're scrolling through their phone and you want to say to them, no wonder your audience is looking at the lunch they brought today, or they're not paying attention. You know, for me.
01:06:07
Speaker
The safety meeting, that morning safety meeting or that evening safety meeting, whatever the shift starts, that is your moment. That is your time to have the most effective conversations with your team, to impact them so that they hold that message the whole eight, 10 hours they're working. So don't do it while sitting down. Don't do it while scrubbing through your phone. Pull one of these objectives out, throw it on the screen, make it exciting, pull the audience in.
01:06:36
Speaker
Ask them questions, get them involved, show them how the objective that's in that chapter or that piece, how that relates to the work they're doing today. Because I think what we get wrapped up in is, okay, guys, safety meeting, call out the hazards that you're going to run into today. Oh, come on, no. Let's talk about redundancy. I'm going to tell you the same stuff I do every day. Well, let's get out of that mindset and let's look at how what a certain objective could affect the work we're doing today.
01:07:05
Speaker
That's how I see it. I'm always thinking about how it affects our guys on the ground. I'm boots on the ground. I try to figure out how can we have the most lasting change. That's what I love about this book. You can tear a page out of it each day and have something new. I think that's the other thing with our safety professionals is sometimes we struggle
01:07:28
Speaker
If we're not a natural presenter or a natural speaker, how do we gravitate to this audience? How do we pull them into what we're saying? And the topics in this book are so unique and so gravitating themselves that you could be Mr. Magoo up there and still have the attention of the audience because the points that you're sharing are so significant.
01:07:50
Speaker
including some of the things we're talking about today. I have a feeling. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. That's wonderful. That's wonderful. So Christa, say the title again. Oh gosh, dad's going to have to read it. Okay. You do it. Yeah. Human dynamics of achieving an injury free workplace.
01:08:08
Speaker
Very good. Went to the printers yesterday. That's fantastic. We'll be sure to include the title in the show notes as well as a link to GellerAC4P.com. Yep. That's all it is, GellerAC4P.com. And you know, the other part that dad didn't mention is the cartoons in it, I think are so fun, you know, and I think that we need to realize that laughter is always a great source, you know, of
01:08:38
Speaker
education of safety, you know, you got to laugh at yourself. And some of these cartoons really bring upon humor. So, you know, if you have those safety meetings and you need to kind of you're chugging along a cartoon in this book will also kind of.
01:08:51
Speaker
whether you're doing that through a Zoom meeting or through a teleconference or someday when we can be back with one another again. And you know, humor makes you smile, right? And smile is certainly a nice way to open yourself up and let people know that you care about them as well. Whether you're wearing a mask or not, our eyes still go up when we smile, right?
01:09:18
Speaker
Right. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you both so much for sharing your time and your expertise and coming back on the show again. We were together last in San Diego and real in real life with with film. And today we're meeting across the miles across the country. And I just so appreciate both of you. Thank you so much.
01:09:43
Speaker
Thank you, Jill. Thank you. Yes. We look forward to the next time. Yes. Okay. Yeah. And thank you all for spending your time listening today. And more importantly, thank you for your contribution, making sure your workers, including your temporary workers, make it home safe every day.
01:09:58
Speaker
If you'd like to join the conversation about this episode or any of our previous episodes, you can follow our page and join the Accidental Safety Pro community group on Facebook. If you're not subscribed yet and want to hear past or future episodes, you can subscribe in iTunes, the Apple Podcast app, or any other podcast player you'd like. You can also find all of our episodes at vividlearningsystems.com slash podcast.
01:10:23
Speaker
We'd love it if you could leave a rating and review us on iTunes. It really helps us connect the show with more and more safety professionals like all of us. If you have a suggestion for a guest, including if it's you, please contact me at social at vividlearningsystems.com.
Podcast Credits
01:10:39
Speaker
Special thanks to Will Moss, our podcast producer. Until next time, thanks for listening.