Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Did Sonic Frontiers live up to the hype? (Ft. SuperShadow271)
350 Plays1 year ago
In this episode Satsunami is joined by friend of the show SuperShadow271 to discuss the long awaited Sonic Frontiers! Did it live up to the hype after the five year wait? Or is there more to this than meets the eye? Let's find out!
Patrons:
- Battle Toaster
- Sonia
Use my special link zen.ai/chatsunami and use chatsunami to save 30% off your first three months of Zencastr professional. #madeonzencastr
Check out more episodes here!
Recommended
Transcript
Welcome Back Super Shadow
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to Chad Tsunami. Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Chad Tsunami. My name's Chad Tsunami and joining me for the very first time after two years since his debut on the channel is the one and only Super Shadow 271.
Time Flies: Two Years Later
00:00:32
Speaker
Super Shadow, welcome back.
00:00:33
Speaker
Thank you. Has it really been two years? It feels like that. Maybe it's a year and a bit, but since we're in 2023, I'm gonna give it just that wee bit of leave. Yeah, the last time you were on was I think it was July of 2021. Oh wow.
Collaborating Again: Challenges and Plans
00:00:49
Speaker
Yeah, that is crazy because we were joking before we came on this episode that
00:00:54
Speaker
Well, Shadow and I have been talking and saying, oh, we should do an episode together. We keep coming up with ideas. We keep saying, oh, we're going to do an episode on this, we're going to be doing an episode on that, and then real life gets underway and we're kind of like, when is the episode happening? And I remember being in your chat on Twitch and then they were asking, oh, when are you going back on? And I was like, I am so sorry. So first of all, this is my apology video slash episode, Shadow. This is what you just got. I am so sorry.
00:01:21
Speaker
I'm just happy to be on. It's been so long, but it feels like we were just talking about Sonic 06 not too long ago. It really does, doesn't it? I do listen back to that episode, and that is a fantastic episode. So if any of you listening out there haven't listened to Shadow and I talk about the weird and wonderful world, and I use that very facetiously wonderful world of Sonic 06, please feel free to check out that episode after this one.
Sonic Frontiers Announcement
00:01:47
Speaker
But yeah, today we're moving on to, I suppose, Greener Pastures, because funny enough, when we were talking about Sonic 06, there was another game that had been announced, that of course being Sonic Frontiers, and you and I talked quite a bit about that, didn't we? Yeah, although at the time, I had read a rumour
00:02:07
Speaker
about the press statement saying it would be called Sonic Rangers. So I called it Sonic Rangers, but it was referring to frontiers. Yeah, you're right. There wasn't like an official name to it, was there? Yeah, no, they just showed the logo that still isn't explained. And then Sonic.
00:02:24
Speaker
watch Sonic run through this forest and then that was it. You were kind of like, oh okay. Yeah and there's like some weird light and that's about it. Not much to work off of but apparently they were gonna call it Sonic Rangers or maybe that was just the codename. I wonder why? I don't know. I don't know if like they changed their mind or they had just always planned to call it frontiers. I don't know. Maybe you're right. Maybe it was just like a codename but even then Sonic
00:02:49
Speaker
Rangers. That implies everyone's working together and there's like a whole group of them. You know like, Pibber Rangers. I was thinking of it as like a park ranger, so I thought that was the connecting tissue, but I don't know. I don't think they ever said anything about that. I was going to say, thinking back to like the very first teaser trailer we got, that must have been one hell of a campfire.
00:03:10
Speaker
Yeah, it's not exactly the best if you're trying to avoid forest fires.
Goodbye Smokey Bear, Hello Ember
00:03:15
Speaker
Sonic 8's Smokey Bear crossover win. Which, side note, I think they announced Smokey the Bear's retiring, which is very sad. Really? Yeah, they're replacing him with a fox, I believe.
00:03:27
Speaker
What's the fox's name? Ember, I think, or something like that. Which, why? I don't know. I have to admit, we actually, in the UK, and as far as I know, unless someone from the UK is going to jump on a goat, well, actually. But I don't think we get Smokey the Bear. The only reason I know of Smokey the Bear is through the Simpsons. And you're that episode where Bart goes up to the Smokey the Bear statue and it's like, do you know how to prevent forest fires? Yes. Yes, that's my knowledge of Smokey the Bear.
00:03:55
Speaker
He's kind of a meme, honestly. Oh, I can imagine. He's no Banjo-Kazooie. It would certainly be an interesting mechanic if Banjo-Kazooie could light things on fire. Do you know there probably is some pivot up there. It's probably been on the news saying, local burden bear encourage kids to commit arson. Yeah. But sorry, bad to Sonic. Yes, yeah.
Skepticism and Drought in Sonic Content
00:04:16
Speaker
Which by the way, just as a quick warning, I guess.
00:04:20
Speaker
A lot of this is going to be me apologizing for what I said in the 06 episode, because I was pretty down on the concept of Sonic Frontiers initially. And it turns out I was quite wrong about a lot of things. So anyone who's listening to this thinking like, wow, Shadow's acting like he was always a big fan, I was not. I admit I was very wrong.
00:04:39
Speaker
See, to be fair though, we really didn't have a lot to work off of. As you said, we had that symbol that is never explained. We had the teaser trailer, and then I'm convinced it was like a month or two before the game came out that we got the supersonic trailers. Or maybe it was further back, but it was quite close to release as far as I remember.
00:05:02
Speaker
I think the trailer, after the initial trailer that they dropped, I think the next time they even showed it or talked about it was when Sonic was fighting one of the titans and then Sage shows up for a minute and he looks dramatically at the camera. I think that was the next trailer after that and even then it was still not a lot to go off of.
00:05:20
Speaker
you know honestly all the sonic tubers must have been going mad with like the lack of content to you know when you get that youtube video where it's like the circle and the thumbnail when they add those points it's like who's this what's that because before we move on and actually discuss this game the fact that we had a somewhat drought of sonic content between sonic forces and of course sonic frontiers we didn't really have much did we i mean there was the comics and everything the idw stuff but
00:05:50
Speaker
Yeah, there were sonic origins, but I mean, that's that's an entirely different topic we could talk about. Yes.
Sega's Marketing Strategy for Sonic Frontiers
00:05:56
Speaker
Oh, go to you. What a disaster that is. But, uh, honestly, the way Sega marketed frontiers is very bizarre to me. Usually Sega doesn't do this sort of thing where they drop a trailer with so little info and then just leave us in the dark for ages. Usually they kind of parcel out the info. It's kind of weird to see just so little knowledge going around about it.
00:06:18
Speaker
I mean, considering that it was released in, of course, 2022 at the tail end of the year, but when it was revealed, it wasn't really given that much attention. I know there was rumours and everything that, oh, there's going to be a new Sonic game soon, we promise, and this time it's not going to recycle old content, which, don't worry, I'll get to that later on in the episode. But yeah, you're right. It does seem like, although it was announced in, I think it was December 2021,
00:06:47
Speaker
I think so, yeah. Yeah, it seems quite close to, you know, the release. And I know obviously it's roughly just under a year until it actually did release, but it does feel funny that there was like an absolute lack of information about this game. There was like rumours of screenshots. What's funny is that a lot of the info that we even did have was just rumour from a supposed playtester. We only had some vague word to go off of in the trailer.
00:07:16
Speaker
Was he a leaker? Or was it? Yeah, it was supposedly someone who did some playtesting and they said it's like Breath of the Wild and it's kind of janky and that was basically all the info they gave but it was enough to get people very concerned.
00:07:33
Speaker
Me included. It's usually the way of it, isn't it? Where they come from these anonymous boards and things, they post them up and they're like, oh, look, this is a game and everything. And it's weird because there's been so many times where people have seen those and they've gone, oh, no, no, no, no, that's false. There's no way they would do that. Sometimes that happens for Pokemon. A little off topic, but it's so funny when it's proven true. In a lot of people are just breaking down and going, no, no.
00:08:00
Speaker
I didn't want to believe the leaks but it's true. Yeah, it's quite weird how they quietly push this out.
Building Hype: Sonic Creators in Hawaii
00:08:06
Speaker
I mean, there was advertisement in everything, don't get me wrong, but it didn't feel as if there was much of a fanfare. I mean, the only thing I will say is they did fly out a couple of content creators, Sonic ones especially, to Hawaii.
00:08:20
Speaker
wasn't it? And they got to play the game and everything, but I mean, that's other than that. Don't get me wrong, that is a big thing to hype it up. But see, before we get into it, compared to previous games, would you say that the hype and promotion around this, would you say it's been the same for Frontiers as it was for the past games? Or would you say it's a bit more subdued?
00:08:41
Speaker
Well, Frontiers is a special case because Sega had years ago said that they're gonna, you know, focus more on Persona and less on Sonic. So I think this was the first time we really started to see the effects of it. And there was obviously the trailer, the launch trailer where it was, oh gosh, Freddy Mercury. Don't stop me now, yeah.
00:09:00
Speaker
Yeah, don't stop me now. And a few scattered trailers here and there, but it very much feels more subdued in terms of marketing. But I think a lot of the hype honestly was probably even bigger than Forces. It just felt more like people were actually interested in what they were doing. With Forces, people already knew it was going to be that boost style, so you either knew if you were kind of a fan of that or if you
00:09:23
Speaker
didn't, but Frontiers was a new enough concept that it could get people interested and speculating and, you know, excited regardless of the promotion. I was gonna say just like Bic the Cat, they just cast a reel and waited for a bite from the fans. Yeah, they're very lucky that they didn't pull too hard and then their line snapped and lost a life.
00:09:42
Speaker
I mean, they were close at some point, so I will admit they were close. But seeing that note, I feel as if we've been dangling the lure in front of the listeners long enough. Will we just dive into this? Yeah, that sounds good. We will be right back after these messages.
00:09:57
Speaker
Welcome to Chatsunami, a variety podcast that discusses topics from gaming and films to anime and journal interests. Previously on Chatsunami, we've analysed what makes a good horror game, conducted a retrospective on Pierce Brosnan's runs James Bond, and listened to us take deep dives into both the Sonic and Halo franchises.
00:10:15
Speaker
Also, if you're an anime fan, then don't forget to check us out on our sub-series, Chatsunani, where we dive into the world of anime. So far, we've reviewed things like Death Note, Princess Mononoke, and the hit Beyblade series. If that sounds like your cup of tea, then you can check us out on Spotify, iTunes, and all good podcast apps. As always, stay safe, stay awesome, and most importantly, stay hydrated.
00:10:38
Speaker
Hi, I'm SuperShadow271. You can find me over on Twitch, YouTube, Instagram, Twitter, and even Discord. I play and talk about a huge variety of games, so there's bound to be something you're interested in, especially if you're a Sonic fan. My content tries to be chill with some insightful commentary on games, so if you're interested, please check me out. Thank you so much for listening, and let's get back to Chatsunami.
00:11:01
Speaker
This episode is sponsored by Zencaster. If you're a podcaster that records remotely like me, then you'll know how challenging it can be to create the podcast you've always wanted. That's where Zencaster comes in. Before I met Zencaster, I was put a naive podcaster, recording on low-quality, one-track audio waves.
00:11:36
Speaker
I want you to have the same easy experience I do for all my podcasting and content needs. It's time to share your story.
00:11:47
Speaker
So, Shadow, let's finally talk about Sonic Frontiers, because this is a topic that you and I have been dying
Story Elements and Thematic Shifts in Sonic Frontiers
00:11:55
Speaker
to discuss. I remember you messaged me after I got it and I was playing it. You were like, tell me what you think, tell me what you want to get to end and everything. Well, we talk about the story first of all.
00:12:05
Speaker
because, say compared to what we got in the past, I feel as if with the… and again, this is me using the old terminology, like the retro age, the dark age, the modern age, which ironically enough, the modern age is no longer the modern age. It's probably more like the…
00:12:21
Speaker
era. In the dark era, you had the melodramatic, serious storylines for Sonic. Then in the best era, they were all more goofy and light-hearted. Up until you got to Sonic Forces, where there was kind of this clash of ideas, that's a whole video in itself. Yeah, I could talk a while about forces, but I think
00:12:43
Speaker
for the transition between the Dark Age and the modern-slash-boost-era age. I think Sega tried to listen to a lot of detractors where they were like, we don't want serious storylines, it's Sonic. And so they tried to do a lot of lighthearted stuff with Sonic colors and all that, but I think when the cycle continued and people started saying, we want serious storylines, they initially tried that with Forces and, uh,
00:13:09
Speaker
failed, we'll say. I think they finally handed it to somebody who could understand what that really needs, you know, with Ian Flynn writing. I have to admit, I was really surprised that Ian Flynn was working on this. And I mentioned this in the couple of past episodes, but I remember seeing a couple of creators talking about the IDW series for the comics.
00:13:30
Speaker
and they said that Ian Flynn had worked on it and I was reading them and I thought, they're okay, at least for the first bit. And then we got to, and this is one I've been badgering you to read, so apologies, but the whole metal virus saga, which I thought was absolutely, it was done so well because it was that perfect blend of being serious and
00:13:52
Speaker
kid-friendly, you know, it was quite dark and grim, but it wasn't something that you would say, oh, it has to be gory over the top. There was no bad language or anything. It was still Sonic. So the fact he managed to pull off a zombie story, of all things, with Sonic the Hedgehog, I thought, wow, if he could do that, and obviously I know there's other people involved in the creative process, but if he could do that, then what's it going to do for Sonic Frontiers?
00:14:19
Speaker
Yeah, that really gave me confidence in the story. It gave me confidence, though. Admittedly, I was a little hesitant when he... I don't know if you remember this tweet he made a while back. He was talking about French ears in very vague terms, and he says, like, this is gonna push Sonic to his limits, and, you know, this is gonna be a really dark and hard time for him. That initially scared me, because, you know, Sega has done things like that before. You know, I think he was right.
00:14:47
Speaker
Yeah, the final product wasn't as dark I want to say. No, yeah, it wasn't really as dark as I expected. I didn't expect them to go back to like the 06 era or even Sonic Adventure 2 where that was the perfect blend of dark but
00:15:05
Speaker
serious. I don't feel as if, and maybe this is like the inner edgelord and me getting out the deviant art account and everything, but I don't feel as if it did go far enough in a lot of places. Some places it definitely was relatively dark and I thought, oh that's interesting, but then other bits of it was kind of like, ugh, I feel as if it went back to the kind of boost era where it was still lighthearted in a way. And sorry, before I go on, yeah, before I go on they naturally clarify what I mean by that.
00:15:34
Speaker
I just want to say that we will be diving into spoilers on this episode. I should have said that at the beginning. Apologies, but yeah, if you don't want to be spoiled and you want to play the game, please feel free to pause the episode, go away, make a cup of tea, play some look from tears, and then you can come back. Highly recommend it.
00:15:49
Speaker
But yeah, the whole cyberspace thing was interesting, but it seemed quite inconsequential at times. The Sonic goes through the whole game and it gets corrupted. And then there's one scene at the very end where it gets fully corrupted and he's just standing there because, oh, using Super Sonic so much. My headcanon was that at the very end where we're going to get a cyberspace version of Sonic or something.
00:16:15
Speaker
like a glitch version or something like that to fight whatever the main boss was going to be. Don't worry, I'll get into that. But that's what I thought. I thought, oh, there's going to be a boss in cyberspace or something. It was kind of just he got corrupted, he stood there for a while, and then his friends came back and did Sonic Heroes. The power of friendship compels you, and then that was up. It's like, oh, I'm better now. And you're like, really?
00:16:40
Speaker
Again, I don't know if that's like a conscious choice or someone stepped in and said this is a bit dark, lighten it up a bit, you know, but what did you think of that? It's tough because on the one hand I get what it was going for, but also I guess when I really think about it, it kind of feels like there were two different ideas for how it would play out and they're kind of mashed together because the whole concept of cyberspace didn't particularly integrate that well with the game.
00:17:06
Speaker
And I get that the corruption of Sonic, the whole point of it is to show that he's willing to bear whatever burden for his friends, but it doesn't really get the kind of payoff he would want for that kind of story, you know? Absolutely. Even the Adventure Data. The Adventure Data is quite dark.
00:17:22
Speaker
in a lot of regards but it's still considered quite child friendly. You know you've got Station Square which gets absolutely submerged to put it nicely and of course you've got Tales A. Oh well they did, well it's like the city's been destroyed Tales probably kind of supposed to be boarded but you know you don't have to show that, you don't have to show Sonic fighting perfect chaos and there's like a facedown body going at him, you don't have to show you know that for it to be like dark and gritty and everything and
00:17:49
Speaker
likewise with Sonic Adventure 2. You didn't have to show Maria getting shot as opposed to Shadow the Hedgehog when they did that, but you know, you didn't expect it to be over the top.
Cyberspace Levels: Nostalgia vs Repetition
00:18:00
Speaker
But there were definitely a lot of clashes, I feel, and especially with the way that a lot of dialogue and exposition is shown. I feel as if they were going to include cyberspace
00:18:12
Speaker
It should have been its own world as opposed to something you as the player could interact with because I know what they were going for. They were doing homages to the past levels like Skyrail, Metal Harbor. But the weird thing about that was that it really took me out of the story was when you would go through these levels and it was the same three level designs recycled over.
00:18:36
Speaker
Yeah, I did not like that, but sorry, what did you think of it? I'm a sucker for Adventure 2. I was happy playing through those levels because I think they're well designed. So, you know, I am willing to forgive the reuse just because I think they're fun enough to go through.
00:18:51
Speaker
While I understood that it's just asset reuse and they're not really putting as much money into Sonic as they used to, when my sister was playing through Sonic Frontier, she was commenting about how like, oh, it's always Greek Hill Zone that we're going to. And I can imagine how tiring it gets to see those over and over again.
00:19:07
Speaker
one of our mutual friends with Stereomoth has said the same thing as well on the channel. It seems as if ever since Sonic Generations they have decided, oh people love nostalgia for Sonic because in a way, I think probably the last time we saw Green Hell Zone and like a mainline Sonic game before they started reusing that generations onwards was maybe Sonic Adventure 2?
00:19:31
Speaker
I know if you've got all the ear rags, you've got the bonus level, which is cool because it was like just a bonus side thing. But yeah, then you've got two generations, which obviously that was a nostalgia fest for all the right reasons. And there was a reason for having Greenhill's own chemical plant and all the others crisis cities to the extent as well.
00:19:50
Speaker
Yeah, I'm throwing a bone to 06. Then going forward, especially with forces as you're well aware, they definitely tried to pander to that nostalgia to be like, oh look, it's Green Hill but in a different way and everything. And I see what people mean when they say there's too much Green Hills and I definitely heard other people when they were talking about the promos for this game and they were showing you Green Hill Zone and everything and everyone was like,
00:20:17
Speaker
God, not another Green Hill Zone. We know something comes from Green Hill Zone. It just seems unnecessary at times. I would agree with that. As you said, I can understand why they probably did it. Maybe it was like an asset thing. What I was gonna say about the levels though is I think I was really shocked at how well they flowed. Ultimately, yes, I think the reuse of Green Hill and
00:20:40
Speaker
chemical plant and all that is upsetting like visually. But once you actually get into the gameplay of it and follow the chain, I found that I really didn't particularly focus on that anymore. That's why I didn't tend to be upset about that because ultimately I was so gameplay focused.
00:20:56
Speaker
that, you know, even though I was going through Green Hill multiple times, I was ultimately just looking at all the mechanics versus the level itself. I have to admit, in touching on the gameplay briefly here, I was not as big a fan of the gameplay and the actual cyberspace levels. I thought that it was done relatively well in the open-model setting. I liked the combat and everything. I thought that flowed well, even though there was one or two times I actually fell through the floor. Oh really? It happens, it happens.
00:21:26
Speaker
I am really shocked to hear that because I think they are some of the best levels that have been made in that style basically since generations at least. I don't know, mechanically it felt like they had really considered the spacing and all the tricks you could do and what was at your disposal and you know, secret paths that were still secret but not too difficult to find.
00:21:52
Speaker
I felt as if the Cyberspace levels definitely played a lot differently to the open models. Obviously you couldn't use your combat abilities, you couldn't use the speed bonuses.
00:22:05
Speaker
biggie for me to be honest. I was thinking oh I can't wait to upgrade my speed and I'll be able to just zoom right to the end and everything and then when I got there it was like I just stopped like a sack of potatoes and don't get me wrong it was okay. I'm not going to be like oh the whole thing was terrible because you're
00:22:21
Speaker
right, the design and the levels were cool, the ideas behind referencing old levels from previous games, I thought that was cool as well. You know, especially for the older fans looking and going, oh that's Skyrail, or oh that's Metal Harbor and things, that was really cool. But I didn't feel as if it had a good payoff. Sometimes
00:22:40
Speaker
for some of them, obviously not all of them, but for some of them it did feel like a bit of a slog trying to get through a lot of the cyberspace levels, especially the infamous was it 1-2 world? Ah yes. 1-2 levels, yeah that. I'm gonna be putting on my fanboy hat for this, but for one thing I think I'm glad that they didn't let power-ups, you know, transfer over because I feel like Sega wouldn't have really early Sonic Team whoever wouldn't have been able to account for all of the different possibilities because, you know,
00:23:10
Speaker
You want to make sure gaps are capable to be crossed by someone who didn't upgrade anything, but also aren't just totally broken by someone who did upgrade everything. So I think it was just better for them to just focus on, okay, we know they have this at their disposal. There are no variables.
00:23:26
Speaker
So there's that. And for two, I did one run through where I just kind of played the game as I saw fit and then I did a hundred percent run. And I honestly am surprised at how short some of the levels could be. But I see that more as like, there are so many people who say Sonic games always get so long towards the end and Sonic levels are best when they're short. So I think Sega was trying to curb that by essentially just having every level be pretty short.
00:23:54
Speaker
of them were Sonic Forces lengths of levels. Some of them were like, oh you have to get an S rank but you can only get it under a minute or something and I'm like that's not really that long for a Sonic level. Even opening levels like
00:24:10
Speaker
don't know, City Escape or Emerald Coast. I mean they're very short in a way, they're like maybe over two minutes so they're not overly long but at the same time it gives you enough time to get a kind of handle on the mechanics and everything whereas when you switch to cyberspace it does feel almost as if you are switching to a brand new control layout which don't get me wrong as you said I do agree it does keep it equal for people and
00:24:36
Speaker
I'm going to obviously factor in the fact that this of course is a kids game first and foremost so I'm not going to be like they should have a Dark Souls mode whereas there's spike pits everywhere. But I mean there were some bits that just did not mesh well whatsoever. When I say that I mean like the drifting system because I've had that since Sonic
00:24:56
Speaker
unleashed. And that worked perfectly fine. So I don't quite get why it went from something like that to one where it was like, oh, press left. And then he ended up in, I don't know, ice cap. Why am I here now? I was trying to go right and I kept going left. There were some bits that were quite janky to defend it a wee bit. I know you can technically change the controls
00:25:20
Speaker
Was that right? Yes. You can actually tweak a surprising amount of settings like turn speed and all that, which I very much appreciated. But one thing I was going to say to your point about some sections being rough, I think for me, there are rough sections of pretty much every Sonic game. And I think the fun of Sonic games is really figuring out how to get around those. There are definitely a lot of sections that you can just skip if you know when to boost and where to homing attack.
00:25:44
Speaker
Did you feel as if the boost was a little bit nerfed in this game? Yes, definitely. Right, okay, I'm glad I'm not the only one that's on. Well, honestly, I kind of appreciate that. You know, the boost formula is fine, but sometimes you were going so fast, you basically had to just know what was coming and execute it perfectly. I appreciated that slowing the boost down a little bit gave more flexibility in how you approached obstacles.
00:26:11
Speaker
When I heard about the game after its release, a lot of people were saying that there was a lot of momentum based gameplay. You know, like somebody could speed up and then just jump over certain obstacles. I feel as if that's a partial truth. There was a lot of areas where they could indeed do that, but it just didn't feel the same as some previous iterations.
00:26:32
Speaker
you felt as if you were busting over certain areas, you could just rocket yourself off and just go in one direction or the other. The perfect example, of course. Again, I don't want to be like, oh, adventure is better, because no, no, not at
Momentum Mechanics and Gameplay Comparisons
00:26:44
Speaker
all. But the way Adventure 1 did that, where it was like you could spin dash and then if you had an incline, you could go like that. Or also a recent game, which is one that I've been bringing up quite a lot to my Sonic friends. Apologies, but there's an indie game that is based off of
00:26:59
Speaker
Sonic the Hedgehog called Spark the Electric Jester. Initially when I played Sonic Frontiers I thought oh there's some areas where the momentum could be better and then obviously both of these are different games but the way the momentum acted in this indie game made me reconsider how Sonic Frontiers worked.
00:27:17
Speaker
And I don't think it's bad. I'm not going to sit here and go, oh, it's terrible and the game better. But I do think there were some elements where it could have been done a little bit. I don't know how they could have done it. Like, I'm not going to say it's completely terrible because it isn't. But there were some moments where it was like I was on an incline. I was looking up and I was like, OK, I'm going to do this. And then it was like, you know, that scene of Toy Story where Buzz tries to fly out the window.
00:27:41
Speaker
And it's like, he thinks he's just about to reach it. And then he goes plummeting down. That's her affair with Sonic. It was like, oh, there's the next objective over the water. I'm just going to speed over. And then I just plummeted to my death. I was like, oh, wonderful. For me, the momentum is certainly weird. I took a while to adjust to it.
00:28:00
Speaker
But I think that once you do adjust to it, the strength of it really just shows you all the different possibilities and encourages you to kind of figure out what combination of things will get you there the fastest. The perfect example is a homing attack in this game, which I'm actually a pretty big fan of.
00:28:16
Speaker
You know, they have homing attack and then you can boost in the air into other homing attacks and then like stomp down. And that felt so rewarding to me because it was very possible to mess up. And it really encouraged me to think, would it be better if I, you know, if I did the homing attacks and then stomped and then jumped back up to do homing attacks and boost afterwards? Or, you know, would it be better to just boost over the first guys and then homing attack and stomp? Or what would the best options be?
00:28:43
Speaker
And I really appreciated that because the basis of Sonic to me is repetition and getting better. So as you go through each level, to me it was like, okay, so I get what this level is basically like. Let's see what I can do to improve. And then that encourages you to get the S ranks and find all the red rings and all that.
00:29:02
Speaker
I have to say, especially in the open world, it does encourage you to try combinations, whether that be for the combat, whether that be even, as you said, when you're in cyberspace and you're like home and attack someone and you boost over them for particular chasms.
00:29:18
Speaker
What I will say is I felt as if the homing attack was a lot weightier, which is all finding good. I feel as if it's fine if you're purposely aiming for a particular monster or a same monster, you know, machines. Aim for a particular machine and you take it out. And that's all finding good if you're just taking your time in the open world. But when it comes to cyberspace, where you have to rush,
00:29:43
Speaker
I was really surprised when I went to take out one of the motor bugs, but I went to take him out and I slammed into him and there was a way to do them and that was great. But I was like, oh shoot, I've now lost a second. And then, you know, don't get me wrong, it did teach you to think, right, OK, I'll have to avoid that. I'll just boost over them and everything. But at the same time, it did stop you in your tracks quite a lot, which
00:30:03
Speaker
Again, there's nothing wrong with that, especially for the open world, because as I said, the combat is quite weighty with a lot of things. The punches feel connected, your energy blasts, it almost felt like Dragon Ball Z at some point. In all the best ways, I don't mean that in a derogatory term, I mean like genuinely it felt really fun to fight against these creatures. Hopping back to the story here, because we've had to explain why we're in this particular place,
00:30:30
Speaker
So the basic setup is that Sonic, Tails, and Amy are flying around going to the Starfall Islands when they crash and get trapped in cyberspace.
Plot Setup and Character Roles
00:30:42
Speaker
Knuckles also gets trapped in a prologue that's an animated video on YouTube because he was investigating Angel Island. And Eggman is already trapped in cyberspace as well, trying to find his way out. That's the basic frame of it.
00:30:56
Speaker
Now all I was going to add was along the way they get into hijinks and maybe a colourful cast of characters. I mean, don't get me wrong, it was interesting to see them go in different directions with the plot. They had the aliens and the reveal that the Chaos Emeralds were alien, which I don't know how to feel about that to be honest.
00:31:17
Speaker
Yeah, for me, it's one of those things if you had told me beforehand that this game was going to explain the origins of the Chaos Emeralds and stuff, I probably would have been pretty against it, but I think it was actually explained well enough that I'm okay with it. It's not something I'm exactly glowing about, but it's something that I think is kind of one of the best ways to handle something like this, where you don't need to know it, and even if you do know it and don't like it, you don't have to think about it much, but if you do like it, that is the explanation.
00:31:44
Speaker
because they got away with it by saying, oh, it's an ancient, ancient civilisation. It even predates the echidnas and everything. You're like, okay, okay, Sonic team, I see what you're doing. You're avoiding culpability here, I see. But I suppose, I mean, it's not the first time they've had aliens, although what I will say is I'm surprised they reintroduced aliens after the Black Arms. Oh, yes.
00:32:06
Speaker
One thing I will say that both surprised me and annoyed me was there are things that you could collect during these particular fishing segments, which I know we haven't really touched on, but it reintroduces Big the Cat. What I'll say first of all is I love the fact that they're reintroducing Big, but just as that guy who turns up in the weirdest of places, but they never explain it. I think they did it in the comics as well,
00:32:34
Speaker
Yeah, in particular with the game, it's just they are fishing in cyberspace, which I think it's just a nice touch, I will say. Yeah, definitely. I really like how his voice is not just one or two words, like he actually speaks coherent sentences. Yeah, he's got a deep voice, but not sonic hero style, you know? Yeah. When he just sounds like a bumbling idiot, he does seem just a chill cat. And I know my community as well has this running joke of whenever you see big the cat, they're like,
00:33:03
Speaker
the cat, woo, let's go! But you know, it's nice to see him just there. It's nice to see him just chilling, hanging out. But throughout those missions I actually find it quite funny because you can actually skip the majority of the cyberspace levels if you just keep fishing and then you can get the tokens to progress and everything, which I have to say on a slight tangent there, it didn't annoy me as much as I
00:33:27
Speaker
thought it would to collect everything because one of the reasons I'm not the biggest fan of Unleashed is see when you had to collect the sun and moon medals and everything and I was getting flashbacks to that when it's like, oh it's a collectathon and I was like no don't put me back in!
00:33:43
Speaker
Take me out! Take me back to Station Square!" I was like, no, no, no, that's it, you're going back in. But it actually wasn't that bad. I will say it was a lot of fun to actually get most of the collectibles, but going back to Beck, there are things that you can buy with him. So you can buy those collectibles, but you can also buy these Eggman audio logs. Don't get me wrong, it's really interesting to hear what he has to say because I will admit, I didn't collect them all. I am
00:34:19
Speaker
felt as if, although the exposition was good, most of it should have been in the main game. And this is where I'm going to point to the anime girl in the room as I'm aware. That of course being Sage, which I don't think she's a bad idea. I'm going to be honest, I don't think the idea of Sage being in this is a bad idea, but I don't think Roy warranted a lot of her appearances. She seemed to be there as the antagonist,
00:34:36
Speaker
No, I may or may not have looked it up on YouTube because I got lazy.
00:34:47
Speaker
I think I messaged you when this first happened to me. I was running through the first island and you have your encounter with Sage and Sage is like, get out of here and you get absolutely slapped down by Giganto, I think it is. And then you run along and then all of a sudden she's just standing in the middle of nowhere and you're like, excuse me? What?
Sage: Antagonist's Motivations and Development
00:35:07
Speaker
Are you not meant to be the big bat in this game? Yeah, it's very gamey.
00:35:11
Speaker
Yeah, but then later on you get this weird, weird moment where – and this is, as we were talking a bit before, this feels as if with the major clashes with the tones of this game – where Sage sees Sonic and Tails talking and quite possibly one of the worst islands but I will get back to that. And, you know, the discussion going, oh yay, we're best friends. And she's like, friends? I have no friends. And then she has this very weird
00:35:37
Speaker
flashback with Dr. Eggman, but it's only two scenes that they replay and it's like very sad and poignant music. And don't get me wrong, it's lovely music, but it doesn't feel warranted considering the amount of time spent
00:35:52
Speaker
with it, or rather the Eggman and Heart of Spain together up until that point. Because the majority of that has been him saying, find me a way out. And you know, it's like, right, okay. But that's all their interactions have been. But then of course you get to the end of the game and it's like, take care, dear daughter. And you know, you see the development and the actual egg audio logs, which I think is great. But I feel as if that should have been more emphasised than the main game, if that makes sense. Like, did you feel that way?
00:36:20
Speaker
I can't say I did. I really liked Sage. I think one of Sonic's strengths, at least when he has the good stories, is that antagonists aren't necessarily just pure evil. Like, even Shadow, he was the antagonist for a lot of the story, but he turns around in the end because he realizes Maria wanted him to be nice to people. So, Sage being so devoted to Eggman that initially she's just talking about how she wants Sonic to fail, and all the while begging Eggman to team up with him, I found it compelling enough.
00:36:50
Speaker
You know, I admit they don't spend as much time to get emotionally invested as maybe I would have liked to establish the relationship, but maybe I just don't remember the egg memos well enough, but I don't think there were really any egg memos I would have inserted into the main story. I thought the egg memos were just nice little clarifications and side characterization.
00:37:09
Speaker
I was quite surprised that he talks about a lot of past characters and past groups, like he talks about the Babylon Rogues, the Echidnas. He talks about chaos at one point as well, but there's one audio log, and I can't remember which one it is, but there's one where he talks about Sage. First of all, he talks about her as a knit, and then I think he catches himself referring to her as a she. And then he's like,
00:37:35
Speaker
Hold on, that's ridiculous. I shouldn't be referring to this AI as like a person. I don't know. I feel as if they could. Obviously, this game's Sonic Frontiers, it's not the Eggman and his daughter variety ever, but at the same time, I feel as if they could've maybe tweaked that aspect to make you feel more invested. But the one thing I don't like about Sage, again, I like the idea how green with you completely that there is that moral complexity of wanting to be with Eggman and can decide with him, but then
00:38:04
Speaker
on the flip side of that wanting to stop Sonic but I just I don't get our motivation for stopping Sonic because she keeps saying you know oh I'm going to stop you by releasing the Titans and the Titans seem to be the only ones that are protecting the island it just seems a bit I don't know seemed a bit overkill
00:38:22
Speaker
sort of I mean part of the trouble about talking about the story is that I actually don't feel like it's over because you know if you saw the post-credit sequence you know if you know you know yeah yeah insert that meme of like those who don't know those who know
00:38:38
Speaker
But my impression of the story was basically like Sage, she was aware of all of the things going on in the world. You know, since her goal is essentially to just save Eggman, she doesn't want the Titans destroyed because the Titans are the thing keeping the final boss in check.
00:38:56
Speaker
I just took it as kind of like one of those cliches where it's a robot and it's you know I don't understand human emotion kind of stories. My understanding was that she was programmed to be such a way and Sonic wants to throw a wrench but you know into Eggman's plans but it kind of ends up working against it. I thought it was transparent enough that like even if some of the parts were a little weak I think you could still follow the whole experience you know.
00:39:21
Speaker
Because I have to admit, thinking back on how they visually show her transition between being a quote unquote bad guy to a good guy, they have her in black and red for her teenage years as it were, you know.
00:39:36
Speaker
rebellious phase and then when we get to her becoming the good guy she turns white and blue and it almost reminds me of and again apologies to the Simpson references but you know that episode where it's the trusty the clown doll that's trying to kill Homer and the guy comes up at the end is like oh I see what's wrong here you had it switched to evil it's almost like that was see just like oh I see what's wrong here you switched it too tight and it just switches it to help Sony I can see what you mean but again I think
00:40:06
Speaker
It's kind of that part of that cliche of I am a robot created for a specific purpose, but I'm learning about the world and realizing that things aren't as I was programmed. So I was willing to forgive it for that. I do feel as if they could have expanded on some other areas, but again,
00:40:23
Speaker
It's Sonic Frontiers, not Stayed Frontiers, not Eggman Frontier, you know. I get why there was that focus taken away. But speaking of that though, how did you feel about the other characters? Of course the main was about to say trio, but I forgot Amy was involved. Because of course you've got Sonic, you've got Tails, Knuckles and of course Amy Rose. What did you think about the characterisation in this game?
00:40:47
Speaker
I really liked it. I am probably gonna get some flack for this because my understanding the majority don't really agree, but I think this is the best characterization of the characters in a very long time, particularly with Sonic. You know, I've not been a big fan of Roger Craig Smith's work as I kind of associate his voice with the writing of the modern age where Sonic is just smarmy all the time.
00:41:09
Speaker
What I really appreciated was that I went to a convention a while back where someone, you know, there was a writers panel and someone asked a question about the characters or like how you write the characters. And a moment that really stood out to me and the friend that was with me was that they were saying, if you have characters that are defined well enough, they essentially just write themselves because you know roughly what they would say in any given situation.
00:41:34
Speaker
I thought that was a really interesting quote, and I've basically tried to notice that in every piece of media I consume. When you apply it to frontiers, it really comes off much better and much more true to what Sonic was to me. You know, Sonic did have his cheeky side to him, but he knew when things were serious and, like, would fight for his friends, and wasn't just casually brushing them off all the time.
00:41:55
Speaker
So I appreciated that in this game they would describe things to him and he wouldn't just laugh it off. He would take it seriously and he's trying to communicate with Sage where he's like, please just speak to me. He's not trying to prod her because he wants to understand. So I appreciated that they actually took the time and care to characterize all the characters in ways that make sense to me.
00:42:17
Speaker
No, I totally agree.
Characterization Improvements in Sonic Frontiers
00:42:18
Speaker
I do feel as if they definitely brought them down a peg, but in all the right ways, especially with, let's say Sonic Forces for example, they were all over the place. You know, we had Tails who, it almost was as if they gave them PTSD or something.
00:42:34
Speaker
something like Sonic Forces. They made Knuckles the gruff general, they made Amy the tactician, which actually that wasn't too bad a change, but you know with Sonic, he was always the bubbly, optimistic, but maybe a bit too much. It's almost as if they took the attitude of the 90s, but they just amped it up to 50 and they were just, or sorry I should say 40, like crush 40. The amped it up and they were just like, oh look at us, it's
00:43:04
Speaker
and I totally see what you mean with Roger Drake's myth, and I don't feel as if it's necessarily a problem with his acting, but I do agree. He is very synonymous with this particular era of the way he delivered his lines, and purely because he has been at the forefront of Sonic Boom, Sonic
00:43:24
Speaker
everything post 2010 colours, forces and so on. But it was quite interesting to see that his delivery here was a lot more understated. He had the deeper voice which I was surprised at. I liked the fact that Tails did acknowledge his faults and that's something that
00:43:42
Speaker
Again, going back to the IDW comics where Tails actually acknowledges his behaviour in Sonic Forces and they try to, you know, wave it away and explain it and they even bring it back in this game as well. And I think Ian Flynn does a great job at writing the characters, especially with the way the interact took on another. There's lovely scenes between Sonic and Knuckles.
00:44:03
Speaker
was gonna bring up Knuckles. Yeah, there's like that great bromance there. This is the problem with Knuckles and I'm sure you're gonna probably agree with this but it's just the fact that maybe with the exception of forces we haven't seen a Knuckles that is, I wouldn't say smart because he's always been like a gullible character but he's always been serious, you know, he's not been like a meathead that wants to beat up everything. He's like a guardian, he's like a very revered
00:44:29
Speaker
figure on Angel Island that protects the master emeralds and everything and obviously there's some exceptions you can make like Sonic Riders or something but it felt as if Ian Flann knew what he was doing when they were writing this character into the story. I was gonna bring up Knuckles because I particularly like his characterization.
00:44:47
Speaker
because as you were saying in recent depictions of him, he's always some like dunderhead weightlifter type. My reading of Knuckles ever since the first game was essentially just that he's extremely stubborn and like set in his ways, you know, so that kind of just made him gullible. As soon as Eggman says, hey, Sonic's a threat to you, he doesn't really consider who's telling him that. It's just, oh, I need to protect things.
00:45:10
Speaker
was always my understanding of Knuckles was like he's stubborn and like not exactly focused on fine details but uh he was never an idiot to me and that's what I feel like a lot of modern stuff has interpreted him as and so this this Knuckles where he's kind of bantering with Sonic in a playful but still kind of poke and prod sort of way I thought it was extremely well done and emphasized that they're still friends even though they're also still kind of rivals
00:45:37
Speaker
Yeah it was a nice rivalry. You know it was like the rivalry before Sonic and Shadow became the ultimate rivals but I mean between Sonic and Knuckles it is quite good to see how they've developed as characters and especially with the other characters I feel as if they were a great vehicle to explore. Really the past of the franchise without demonizing it. That was something that really caught me off guard when there's particular scenes where you see the characters interact with one another
00:46:07
Speaker
and all of a sudden they throw up like a screenshot of a previous game and I was like, whoa, what is this? And obviously it's like a flashback to a particular game and everything, especially with the Sonic Adventure one. I was like, whoa, Sonic Adventure? You have a hand like Sonic.
00:46:22
Speaker
3 as well and things like that. I really appreciated that. I love the fact that hopefully going forward they're not going to try and demonise the past, they're going to try and just move forward with it because that is something that of course you and I have said about Sonic.
00:46:38
Speaker
in particular with the social media side of it where it almost seems as if, although they joke about the past of the franchise, don't get me wrong, that's fine, but it's almost become that identity that they're saying, oh, aha, Sonic 06 bad, right guys? Or Sonic Adventure bad. And that is quite, I don't know, it's a bit of a mix. It's like in the one hand, yes, you're, aha, funny joke. But on the other hand, you're like, well, do you care
00:47:02
Speaker
kind of giving off the wrong impression for Sonic as a franchise. It's not just that punching bag for people to be like, oh, ha ha, Sonic fans kind of thing. But it's good to see that, yeah, the game is bringing those elements back. Yeah, well, oh gosh, there are two different things I want to talk about. But as a quick side tangent, what you were talking about is kind of why I don't like Sonic Boom, the TV show, because it felt like the only jokes it could make were like, oh, ha ha, Sonic, you know, am I right? And like, oh, Sonic fans are weird or like, oh, Sega ruined Sonic.
00:47:32
Speaker
Uh-huh. And it just felt very much like, okay, yeah, I get it. Do you have anything else to talk about? So I very much agree that I really appreciate that they're not just making jokes about the past and making the older fans feel bad. The other thing I wanted to say was I actually, I think one of my bigger criticisms of this game is that it makes so many nods to previous games that I don't think are the best advised to make nods to. There's a point where they talk about fighting Dark Gaia from Sonic Unleashed.
00:48:01
Speaker
But if that's canon, does that imply they're still on Gaia? Because Gaia was kind of its own planet. So are they just traveling between planets? And like, where do the Chaos Emeralds fit into that? Yeah. Yeah, that's the thing, right? Like, if they're not on Gaia, then, you know, how is it that that happened? Did they just get transported to a different planet or like?
00:48:24
Speaker
Sonic has always been a bit loosey-goosey with its past and its lore, but one of my favourite ones, kind of briefly touching on O6, like one of the most infamous ones I remember is when it's that scene where Shadow and Silver go back to the past, and then when they're going back to the future, Silver gives the least like the Chaos Emeralds, and it can't just put everybody into a frenzy, because they're like, well wait, if they've always had the Emeralds in that game, then the Chaos Emeralds could have been this game in that game, which took place before O6,
00:48:54
Speaker
everything that was just like a massive headache. But I totally see what you mean. There's some games where it's like, I don't know about that. I don't have to admit, there were some moments where it was like, I do a good E, I was like, oh, don't put that game in. I was having a good time with Sonic Frontiers and then all of a sudden the Zeti showed up and I was like, oh no, bit of a way.
00:49:16
Speaker
Sorry, that's another episode entirely. I, you know, yeah. We'll have to talk about why I like Sonic Lost World. The trial of Super Shadow.
00:49:26
Speaker
But yeah, they canonized basically all the games, and I was like, I don't know if you really want to acknowledge the stories of some things. Like, they brought up the Phantom Ruby in Sonic Mania as well, but it's one of those you really don't need to talk about Sonic Forces, or even Unleashed, or any of those games. It felt sometimes like they were trying to force all the references. I didn't like that.
00:49:50
Speaker
Sonic Forces references coming out in 2024. Yeah, I set you up for that one. Yeah, I know. I was waiting. I didn't feel as if it was too egregious though. It wasn't that they shoved it in your face constantly to be like, oh look, it's the past. But I do see what you mean. It does seem as if there's a lot of moments that come
00:50:09
Speaker
flashed, for example, with the Gaia temples. As far as I remember, they had to put a Chaos Emerald in everyone, so it's like, well, if that's the case, then did the Gaia temples predate the aliens coming or vice versa? And again, going to the aliens, which... did they ever get a name? No, I don't think they did. I can't think of it if they did.
00:50:34
Speaker
I'm just looking at my notes here. I think they're called the ancients, but they call them the ancients, but I didn't think there was a name beyond that. No, there doesn't seem to be. That's what I'm looking at. All it says is the ancients that are creatures related to Chaos, which
00:50:50
Speaker
Again, that just opens up so many questions. Why was Chaos in a massive Master Emerald? Where was the Master Emerald? Again, these will be things that will probably be explained later on. They don't have to explain everything in this game, but it gives me the questions.
00:51:06
Speaker
against me a whole heap of questions. Yeah, for me, I was actually really interested about that because if you're already explaining that the Chaos Emeralds were really important to this tribe, I thought it was really interesting that something we already know about is related to them because they're like descendants.
00:51:24
Speaker
I thought there were enough plausible explanations that I thought it was a good idea, but I guess we would have to really see how other games and or comics and shows and stuff explain that. I'm sure they'll explain that eventually, I hope so. I hope this isn't like a Force Awakens situation where it's like a good story for another time and they just never explain why Chaos is related to them. But yeah, no, it was cool after that. I remember seeing them for the first time and I was like, oh, that's
00:51:53
Speaker
really neat that they obviously look like chaos but just like a lot more matured and everything. That was really neat. And the fact that they were trying to incorporate the lower of the Echidna tribes and everything and the Babylon Rogues and to get entered and kind of say comments, you know, just
00:52:10
Speaker
oh yeah the echidnas blah blah blah but it was really cool to see them trying to build this world and establish it which i thought was really neat but speaking of the ancients we of course have to talk about two particular things that i want to touch on first of all the boss fights which range from absolutely incredible to what the hell
00:52:30
Speaker
And second of all, we've got to talk about the music. So first of all, let's talk about the boss fights. I'm going to be honest, if we're talking about the tertiary boss fights within the open world, I wasn't that big of a fan of most of them. Some of them were alright, but squid especially. I do not like squid, I'm sorry. Yeah, nobody likes the squid though. If there's any squid stands out there who are like, I like the squid, you're wrong. Your opinion matters, but you're wrong.
00:52:58
Speaker
Yeah, I like them in concept. The idea of, oh, it's creating a path and, like, you got a fight in the sky. That is cool in itself, but they are extremely difficult to actually get on. That was a big thing when I was watching my sister play, because, like, I got on because I made clever use of, like, boosts and jumps and stuff.
00:53:17
Speaker
but it's not something most people would think to do normally. I was thinking, yeah, they really could have designed a better way to fight those things and introduce those things. As long as you're vaguely near it, it'll initiate the battle. It's just, it takes so long though. Yeah, it does take a long time. I don't mind the concept of it, especially with others like Sumo and Ninja and things like that. There's a lot of them are like, oh, they're really cool. But then others I'm just like, oh, this is taking
00:53:43
Speaker
ever to do. And then eventually either run away or you just have to end up dying to them. It's kind of a mixed bag, but what isn't a mixed bag? I have to say, are the titans themselves? We've of course got the Giganto one, is that right? The first one. Wyvern and... oh, there's Knight, and then of course the final final. Supreme, of course, not to be confused with the clothing brand of course.
00:54:08
Speaker
Oh my gosh, if I had the skill, I would fully drop that Goku Supreme jacket on. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a mod for that already because someone's actually, one of the ones I was absolutely killing myself laughing at was the Giganto boss fight where someone had for some reason done a mod where after every time you get smacked away by him, he starts dancing the ganglion style.
00:54:33
Speaker
I saw that. Oh, it's amazing. The first time I saw it, I was like, did they program that? I was convinced for a full minute. I was like, no, surely that's a mod. And of course, it was a mod. But I thought that was so funny. But all I can say is those both sites did not have to go as hard as they did.
00:54:52
Speaker
And that, of course, links into the music of this game, which is fantastic. I honestly don't think I have been so hyped about a soundtrack for Sonic in a while.
Soundtrack Praise and Boss Fight Impact
00:55:03
Speaker
There's one or two tracks, maybe, in Forces, which I thought, oh yeah, that's OK. But it wasn't the same as Live and Learn, what I made of even Endless Possibility. It didn't seem as if there was many songs like that. But then, of course, we got Four in a Row with these bosses.
00:55:21
Speaker
I have to say, one of the biggest things that really surprised me about the soundtrack was how varied it is. You know, it goes from hard metal to dubstep and rock and it's just really cool. It makes each fight feel epic and unique in its own way. It did seem quite weird though that they were going back to that kind of punk rock.
00:55:40
Speaker
i wouldn't say weird sorry that's probably the wrong word but more the fact they were going for a more upbeat tone with their music i'm not a music aficionado so apologies if i get any terms wrong or anything but it didn't seem as if it was as impactful with a lot like even fist bump
00:55:58
Speaker
I like Fistbump well enough, but I wouldn't be playing it as much as Solaris Phase 2, or as I said, Love and Learn. Even I am from Shadow the Hedgehog. That really goes hard, but I wouldn't be playing Fistbump, be like, oh yeah, we're going to do it together, we're friends, we're Sonic Heroes. But no, compared to I'm here, Vandalise as well, which is fantastic.
00:56:21
Speaker
Break through it all, find your flame. Undefeatable is amazing, can I just say. I have to admit, see up until the first boss fight, I was very look warm about this game. I was like, it's okay. I wasn't convinced. I really, I was kind of like, yeah, it's okay. You know, when you collect the Chaos Emeralds, you do them in the games. I was like,
00:56:42
Speaker
it's okay. And then you get to this and you have to climb this massive behemoth of a machine creature and you get to the top, you get the final Chaos Emerald, you transform, which it was really surprising to me because usually, of course, as you know, and Sonic fans know, Super Sonic is like a very special event. It's used as like a kind of last resort to take out the big bad, whereas in this, they just dish them out. They're like, oh yeah, Super Sonic here or Super Sonic
00:57:09
Speaker
are to of course take down these giant ancients and I absolutely love that. I don't know why I enjoyed it so much but it just it brought me back to those moments of you know when we were growing up and everything and you're playing these Sonic games and it was just it was absolutely amazing. I mean you even had a, again I don't think it was intentional but like a Metal Gear Revengeance
00:57:31
Speaker
style death with Night where Sonic picks up the big blades and he's like, I promise never to kill anyone with my own blades, but this is a nigh blade. And he just chops them in half, freezes style. Oh, it was so good. But how did you feel about them? So I really liked them. I think they're a really interesting example of how you can make all of the mechanics and lore work together.
00:57:55
Speaker
this sort of thing. Supersonic is the big form to beat up the big bad. It's kind of a shame that usually he only appears like right at the end. It's a nice way to actually experience that several times without breaking the game or making it feel not special.
00:58:11
Speaker
because you're introduced to it, you try it a few times, like it's a part of the mechanics you're already aware of, and you get to do it multiple times, so it works from a story sense, because always after you turn supersonic, the emeralds scatter like the dragon balls, you know, it works from like a mechanical standpoint, because it's a mechanic that you use to beat the bosses throughout the game, and it makes sense as like a satisfaction thing, because you get to actually do it multiple times.
00:58:38
Speaker
I really liked it. I admit, a couple of the bosses weren't very well explained initially, but that's a problem I'm hesitant to really call a problem because once you do learn it, it is very smooth. You know, I can beat the bosses in a fraction of the time now. Yeah, I have to admit, I had a lot of issues with some of them. Like, especially for the night, I was trying to parry things. I was like, okay, I'm not getting this. And then how do you realize that was what you were supposed to do?
00:59:04
Speaker
things. The parry is not well explained at all. I saw so many people, and even I, thought you had to like time your parry. Turns out you can just hold it and then it'll auto do it for you. Yeah, I heard that as well. When I was playing that Electric Jester game as well, that is a game that has like combat in it as well, and it does make you time your parries. So you can't just like hold out, you can block and everything, that's fine. But you have to time it so that you get like the perfect parry and everything and you kind of learn how to do that.
00:59:32
Speaker
Oh my god, I was exactly the same. I was like, okay, I've got to time it perfectly. And then as soon as I finish the game, people are like, oh no, you can just hold it down. I was like, what? What a bit of peeking porn. I've been doing this the whole time. Oh, I was not happy. I was not happy to pander that day. Same. The game doesn't explain a lot of things like that particularly well. So it is rough on the first playthrough.
00:59:55
Speaker
Yeah, that's true. It's definitely one you have to go back to, but of course, there's one particular boss that we are weaving out.
Final Boss Critique: The End
01:00:03
Speaker
This is where I get very negative, so I apologise. Throughout the story, we get flashbacks after the defeat of each titan.
01:00:10
Speaker
where we see the ancients running away from this massive threat. And we never get to see what this threat is, it's just like this entity that's, oh, it's destroying planets, it's going to get you. And of course, you know, they're running away, they're terrified, and then they just, I think they try to upload themselves. They're going full Sword Art Online into their digital cyberspace system, but I think they get a
01:00:34
Speaker
even remember did they get not killed but corrupted or something to my understanding they just died you know the few that remained flew to whatever planet sonic's on and tried to continue on through the cocos but i don't remember them getting corrupted i was trying to remember what happened to them i don't know obviously they can't say in the sonic game because it's my kids they can't say oh and they all die oh well i mean they kind of do one of the flashbacks is their planet getting blown up so like it's pretty fair to assume a lot of them died
01:01:02
Speaker
I mean, I suppose that's akin to, like, you know, in Shadow the Hedgehog where we get, like, the Sopranos fade to black when the Gun Soldier ships Maria. And it just, obviously, we don't want to see that, but it cuts to, like, black or white or whatever. I suppose it's like that.
01:01:22
Speaker
You know, we find out about the ancients and everything and I have to call it somebody up here now because I had to remind myself. But basically it's saying that the ancients had built the Titans to see all the ends, which is the entity that they were running away from within cyberspace. This is honestly one of my biggest gripes with the game.
01:01:44
Speaker
I think that in a series like Sonic Spectacle has always been something that you can always say, no matter what game, the majority of them have a final boss that you're going to remember, even in Sonic Lost World. I'm going to throw your bone here.
01:01:59
Speaker
and say like even with Sonic Lost World, you know, you have the giant Zavok, you've got the Egg Mech at the end, you know, in the past as well when again I keep going back to being you've got Perfect Chaos, the Final Hazard, you've got Metal Overlord and everything but at the same time I feel as if the end was about kind of underwhelming. Did you think
01:02:20
Speaker
Yeah, so I initially played the game on normal and I was like, that's really it for the final boss. I went looking at people's opinions on the game and I saw someone go, by the way, you should play it on hard mode so that way a phase of the boss isn't cut out, which
01:02:37
Speaker
would have loved to know earlier, but I went back and played it on hard mode to see the final phase, and I understand why they cut it out. Shmups are not easy in general, and it's probably not for kids. I understand that, like, giving people the ability not to do that section is nice, but also I wouldn't call the end satisfying so much, but I did feel more satisfied with that section, because, you know, throughout the fight it's taunting you and saying things, and it felt a little more epic.
01:03:03
Speaker
On the one hand, I do feel as if they definitely could have done it better. But at the same time, I'm hoping in a way there's DLC. I'm not happy about that. They have to explain more about these creatures and everything and what the end is in DLC. I wish it was more in the final game. But if it does come out for DLC, we will see. We definitely will see. Hopefully. We'll see the end of the end, as it were.
01:03:27
Speaker
Yeah, I mean they did promise free DLC for a little while at least.
Concluding Thoughts on Sonic Frontiers
01:03:32
Speaker
Speaking of the end of course, before we wrap up, what are your final thoughts on this game? Do you think that it is Return to Form, or do you think more could have been done? Well, I definitely think it's a step in the right direction. I like a lot of what they did, and it really did feel like they tried to think things through more, and that's ultimately what I've wanted out of Sonic Team for a while.
01:03:52
Speaker
It's not perfect, and my feelings might change with later entries explaining things, but I was ultimately heartened by it. It was addicting enough that immediately after finishing it, I did the 100% complete mode, and I still could go back and play it, so it's doing something right for sure. We'll see how the DLC comes out.
01:04:12
Speaker
No, absolutely. I would definitely agree with you. I would say that although it is definitely going in the right direction, I feel as if with the boost slash modern era, Sonic was kind of dwindling in a kind of parallel space. It wasn't really going anywhere, it wasn't developing its own brand or anything, but it wasn't expanding. It was just doing similar things in a shorter amount of time.
01:04:34
Speaker
so there's nitpicks that I have towards the game. The pinball one being the most infamous, which I know you got first time. You're a master gamer compared to me. I feel like Sonic's had enough pinball sections in his life that I'm kind of prepared for it in a Sonic game. Oh yeah, no, absolutely. But I mean, there was that. There's some design elements I would say I was a big fan of, like in the islands.
01:04:57
Speaker
you know I mean more in the case of there was just like random rails everywhere like I didn't feel as if it was integrated as well not always you know but sometimes there was obviously the forced 2D sections which were a bit annoying but that aside I do think it is a step in the right direction as you said I do think that Sonic needs to get back to trying different things but I know they tried different things with like Lost World and Sonic Boom and that didn't work out but they definitely need to keep
01:05:26
Speaker
on this particular trajectory. And I think if they do that, then the future games will be successful. At least I hope so. I'm not a soothsayer, but I hope it will be interesting to see both what the DLC brings and what this brings as a whole to the franchise. On that note, Shadow, thank you so, so much for coming on in the end, discussing Frontiers.
01:05:47
Speaker
Thank you for having me on again. I've been looking forward to this for so long. Hopefully we can get together again and do some more episodes and talk about more things. Oh no, we definitely will be. But before we finish up, where can the lovely listeners at home find your content?
01:06:04
Speaker
You can find my content on twitch.tv slash SuperShadow271. I'm also on YouTube and Instagram and Twitter, but I admit I'm not as good about content on those yet. Got a lot on my plate as is, but I'm SuperShadow271 on basically every platform. So if you search me there, I'll probably be there in some way. And I would just matter that. Please go check out SuperShadow271. Absolutely fantastic content creator. I wouldn't have you on other eyeshadow.
01:06:31
Speaker
you. I really appreciate that. But no jokes I say, definitely. Go check out Shadow. And if you want to check out more Chatsunami content, then you can check us out on our website, pottypage.com forward slash Chatsunami. You can also catch us on Spotify, iTunes and all good podcast apps as well. If you want to support us over on Patreon, you can do at patreon.com forward slash Chatsunami.
01:06:54
Speaker
On that note, thank you all so so much for joining us, discussing Sonic Frontiers. Shadow, thank you once again for joining me. On that note, stay safe, stay awesome, and most importantly, stay hydrated. Hey everyone, Satsanani here, just to let you know that we've officially launched a Patreon page.
01:07:12
Speaker
If you want to catch exclusive content from ourselves as well as early access to future episodes, then please go to Patreon.com forward slash Chat Tsunami. We also want to thank our two Pantalurian Patrons, BattleToaster and Sonya. Thank you so much for supporting the channel. As always, stay safe, stay awesome and most importantly, stay hydrated.