Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Can Someone Be a Good Coach without Coach Training?
17 Plays3 months ago
In this thought-provoking episode of PRIME SPACE, hosts Elias and Amy—both master-certified coaches from the PRIME Coaching Academy—tackle a critical and sometimes controversial question in the coaching profession: Can someone truly be an effective coach without formal coach training?
Drawing from years of experience and deep knowledge of the industry, Elias and Amy explore the nuanced realities of coaching with and without formal preparation. While they recognize that some individuals may have natural coaching instincts, they strongly advocate for the transformative impact of structured coach training. They delve into the tools, ethical frameworks, and professional standards that formal training provides—and why these elements are essential for creating meaningful, sustainable transformation for clients.
Whether you're a coach, aspiring coach, or simply curious about what separates a good coach from a great one, this episode offers valuable insights into:
- The risks of coaching without training
- Why natural talent alone isn't enough
- How ongoing learning shapes coaching excellence
- The ethical responsibilities of professional coaches
- The importance of distinguishing coaching from mentoring or consulting
📌 Notable Quote:
"When people coach without formal training, they don't know what they don’t know." – Amy
📌 Kicker Quote:
"Why are you not investing in yourself? Why aren't you considering yourself a professional and doing what professionals do?"
🔍 Themes Explored:
✔️ Coaching vs. Mentoring/Consulting
✔️ The hidden gaps in untrained coaching
✔️ Ethical standards and ICF best practices
✔️ Lifelong learning in coaching
🎧 Tune in and reflect on your own coaching journey—and what it means to show up as a true professional in this evolving field.
#PRIMESpacePodcast #CoachTraining #ProfessionalCoaching #ICFStandards #EthicalCoaching #CoachingExcellence #OngoingDevelopment #CoachingProfession #MentorVsCoach #TransformationalCoaching
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Prime Space Podcast
00:00:03
Speaker
Welcome to Prime Space, a Prime Coaching Academy podcast with your host, Elias Scultori.
00:00:14
Speaker
So hello, coaches.
Guest Introduction: Amy Rupert Donovan
00:00:16
Speaker
For the last episode of this season of Prime Space, I invited my dear friend Amy Rupert Donovan to be here with us.
00:00:27
Speaker
Hello, Amy.
00:00:28
Speaker
I'm back.
00:00:32
Speaker
Hello, Ilyas.
00:00:34
Speaker
So, Amy, we always have these conversations when the recording button has not been pressed.
00:00:42
Speaker
I know.
00:00:43
Speaker
Somebody should just follow us around with a recorder.
00:00:45
Speaker
Oh, my gosh.
00:00:46
Speaker
Yes.
00:00:47
Speaker
Wait, maybe not.
00:00:49
Speaker
Maybe not.
00:00:50
Speaker
But anyways, for this podcast here today, for this episode, I thought the theme for us to discuss here in this conversation would be, it's a question, actually.
00:01:03
Speaker
Can someone be a good coach without formal coach training?
00:01:12
Speaker
Where do you go when I ask this question?
Informal Coaching: Example and Risks
00:01:15
Speaker
I go in about 20 different directions when you ask this question.
00:01:21
Speaker
I have a friend who he's, he's a great friend and he's a great coach and he doesn't know the first thing about coaching and we've never talked about it, but I actually allow him to coach me every now and then.
00:01:36
Speaker
And I allow, I don't know why I'm saying, but we have these conversations and he shows up as a great coach.
00:01:43
Speaker
Now he is a,
00:01:46
Speaker
a movie producer and director.
00:01:49
Speaker
So he's, he's got some natural talents from that, from his profession, but he, um, he just has a way of being that is very coach-like and, and I, we enjoy having great discussions and things.
00:02:02
Speaker
However, and here's where the depends comes in.
00:02:07
Speaker
When people coach without formal training, they don't know what they don't know.
00:02:14
Speaker
And I'm sure there's plenty of really effective coaches out there who have hung a shingle and are coaching and are doing effective work for their clients who have respective backgrounds that inform that effectiveness that they have.
00:02:30
Speaker
However, my question is really, are they delivering the maximum amount of value that they could to
00:02:40
Speaker
An example, you know, are they really just coaching results for the client versus for transformation?
00:02:50
Speaker
These are things we learn.
00:02:51
Speaker
These are things we learn from getting, you know, good solid frameworks in place.
00:02:57
Speaker
Practice, practice, practice, practice.
00:02:59
Speaker
Discussion with peers, discussion with mentors.
00:03:03
Speaker
All of these things help us work.
00:03:06
Speaker
know what we know and grow from there.
00:03:10
Speaker
You know, Ilias, you and I still have conversations with code.
00:03:13
Speaker
I get coached every now and then.
00:03:15
Speaker
I know you do.
00:03:16
Speaker
We go at it every all the time, stretching one another's understanding of coaching and practice of coaching.
Diverse Coaching Approaches
00:03:24
Speaker
So if these, if people aren't engaged in that constant growing edge, you
00:03:30
Speaker
of being a coach and, and doing coaching.
00:03:36
Speaker
I, that's where it depends.
00:03:39
Speaker
That was a long answer.
00:03:41
Speaker
No, I appreciate that.
00:03:42
Speaker
And, and, and I agree with you.
00:03:45
Speaker
I, you know, many episodes ago, I had an, you know, the theme of the episode was coaching fundamentalism and this whole aspect that all of the rules of coaching.
00:03:58
Speaker
And I shared in that episode that I am, I try not to be a fundamentalist.
00:04:04
Speaker
I believe in the coaching process.
00:04:06
Speaker
I believe in the core competencies, not the whole, not, uh,
00:04:13
Speaker
without any thought process behind, I believe in the core competencies because of the rigorous process that has been created around them for them to be created.
00:04:28
Speaker
And now the ICF is reviewing the competencies again to show the rigorous process that we have around them.
00:04:36
Speaker
So I believe because it's a proven process and also because I have seen it work.
00:04:42
Speaker
However, so I'm not a fundamentalist and like the ICF is the only way or these competencies is the only way a person can coach.
Integrating Coaching with Other Professions
00:04:52
Speaker
However, I also another episode of Prime Space also, I talked about the distinction between what is coaching and what is the coach approach.
00:05:03
Speaker
So someone can have a natural ability to show up with the coach approach without even knowing that they are showing up that way.
00:05:14
Speaker
They can come and they then they can simply, you know, be curious.
00:05:20
Speaker
They can ask questions.
00:05:21
Speaker
They can create a safe environment.
00:05:24
Speaker
They can give the other person space for reflection.
00:05:29
Speaker
And that can be tremendously impactful.
00:05:32
Speaker
And resourceful.
00:05:35
Speaker
A person can come with lots of professional experience and have a hybrid approach between asking questions and showing up with a coach approach and at the same time, being more of a mentor, being more of a consultant.
00:05:52
Speaker
And that process can be tremendously beneficial and tremendously powerful.
00:05:57
Speaker
I know of coaches and professionals that have that approach.
00:06:04
Speaker
And, oh, my gosh, they are doing tremendous and beautiful work there.
00:06:08
Speaker
So I am not fundamentalist in the aspect that you have to have coach training in order for you to be effective.
Value of Rigorous Coach Training
00:06:17
Speaker
And also depends on what the client needs.
00:06:21
Speaker
Some clients may need consultancies.
00:06:25
Speaker
Some clients may need mentoring.
00:06:29
Speaker
And if we go as a consultant and as a mentor, that will be effective for the client.
00:06:35
Speaker
However, we do have a rigorous process as far as core competencies, as far as skills of a coach within the ICF environment.
00:06:48
Speaker
We also have a rigorous process as far as coaching education.
00:06:52
Speaker
This morning I was just talking with coach educators from all around the world and the ICF was updating us in the process and the due process that they have around credentialing and accreditation and all of that.
00:07:05
Speaker
There is a thought process behind that.
00:07:08
Speaker
So to me, it's not that you cannot be an effective coach, but a person that does not have coach training or coach-specific training from a very serious coach training program will miss on best practice, will miss on specific tools that can be so effective.
00:07:29
Speaker
And what I see a lot happening in the marketplace of people that label themselves as coaches is
00:07:37
Speaker
without coach training is that they end up reinventing the wheel.
00:07:41
Speaker
They create their own processes and instead of benefiting from a community of 60,000 members and gathering the knowledge from all of these individuals and all of these experiences that are summarized in the core competency and the skills that we deliver when we have a serious coach training program.
00:08:04
Speaker
So to me, it's like, yeah, you can be effective, but I would bet that you would be even more effective if this person really invested in coaching education and invested not only in coaching education, but invested in being current to industry standards.
00:08:26
Speaker
Yeah.
00:08:26
Speaker
You know, here's another point, though, on the other side of the coin here, Ilyas, is that
00:08:35
Speaker
One of the things we tell our students at Prime is the only thing you're an expert in is coaching once you leave this program, right?
00:08:44
Speaker
And that's true.
00:08:46
Speaker
We expertly learn how to facilitate the process of coaching.
00:08:53
Speaker
Our clients are the expert in themselves, and we're specifically trained to work from those perspectives.
00:09:01
Speaker
Now think about this for a minute.
00:09:02
Speaker
Would you go to an accountant that said, yeah, I'm good with numbers?
00:09:07
Speaker
Yeah, I'm good with numbers.
00:09:08
Speaker
So I just say, you know, I threw a sign out here and I'm doing people's numbers.
00:09:14
Speaker
No, I wouldn't.
00:09:16
Speaker
And I don't think anybody with any common sense would do that.
00:09:20
Speaker
And yet in our profession, you know, we by choice didn't make licensure happen.
00:09:28
Speaker
And that was choice.
00:09:29
Speaker
I just really want to stress that early on in this field, we collectively decided, no, we want to leave the doors open to let this thing evolve.
00:09:40
Speaker
However, because you're a good executive, because you're good with people, because that does not make you an expert in coaching.
00:09:49
Speaker
And it also means you don't know the quality you're providing for your clients.
00:09:59
Speaker
And so is this, you know, what are you committed to?
00:10:03
Speaker
What are you committed to?
00:10:04
Speaker
That's my question for people who don't get training.
00:10:07
Speaker
You and I as master certified coaches, we have to give 40 hours of training, whether we like it or not, to keep renewing our master certified coach designation.
00:10:17
Speaker
There's a constant commitment to learning, which is one of the core things about being a coach, is that we're on our own learning path, our own growth curve, and so that we give our clients a space to grow into.
00:10:34
Speaker
So being good at something else, like my friend who I said, who's got a great coach approach in our, yeah, he can be coaching me when I give him that opportunity, but I can also see exactly what's missing because he doesn't have that professional training.
00:10:52
Speaker
So this is the question I have for people who have decided not to get the training.
Importance of Professional Coaching Standards
00:10:59
Speaker
Why?
00:11:00
Speaker
Why are you not investing in yourself?
00:11:02
Speaker
Why aren't you not considering yourself a professional and doing what professionals do?
00:11:08
Speaker
Yeah, I know it's for some of you.
00:11:12
Speaker
It's a hit to your pride.
00:11:13
Speaker
Maybe I've already paid my dues in certain fields.
00:11:17
Speaker
Well, you know, I've paid my dues in coaching.
00:11:20
Speaker
Can I become a brain surgeon?
00:11:22
Speaker
No.
00:11:22
Speaker
This is what I'm asking here, you know?
00:11:28
Speaker
100%.
00:11:28
Speaker
And the other thing that comes up for me as I'm listening to you is without coach training, do we really know what coaching is or the proposition of coaching?
00:11:41
Speaker
Because this is another thing that I see people call themselves as coaches, but they are doing something else.
00:11:49
Speaker
And they wholeheartedly believe that they understand the standards of the profession, but they don't because they
00:11:57
Speaker
They haven't had the training.
00:11:59
Speaker
And then they think that they are doing coaching.
00:12:04
Speaker
And then they are providing something else.
00:12:07
Speaker
We see this in many different fields.
00:12:08
Speaker
Oh, we see it all the time.
00:12:10
Speaker
I'm sorry to cut you off, but I just have to say this.
00:12:12
Speaker
We see it all the time in students who choose to come in and get trained.
00:12:17
Speaker
after they've been practicing for a while, they are blown away at what they don't, didn't know.
00:12:22
Speaker
And including level two, when people move from level one training to level two training, they're going, Whoa, I didn't even know.
00:12:28
Speaker
I didn't know this, you know, but here's the, here's where we really find out is when we coach clients who've been coached by people who are doing other things or watered down versions of coaching that, that say to us, what did you just do here?
00:12:42
Speaker
Like I've been coached before.
00:12:44
Speaker
I didn't have anything like this.
00:12:45
Speaker
I once had a guy who was coaching.
00:12:47
Speaker
There were a bunch of executives getting coached.
00:12:49
Speaker
I coached this guy and we buttoned it up in three months.
00:12:52
Speaker
I mean, he really went far.
00:12:55
Speaker
And he sent me an email.
00:12:57
Speaker
He said he was comparing notes with one of his colleagues.
00:12:59
Speaker
And he told the guy his experience.
00:13:02
Speaker
And the other guy said, I didn't get that at all.
00:13:05
Speaker
And then they started checking in with some of the other executives.
00:13:07
Speaker
I said, I didn't get that at all.
00:13:09
Speaker
at all either.
00:13:10
Speaker
But we went, you know, we went to a really deep place for him that was super transformative for him.
00:13:16
Speaker
And so this is, you know, this is the question people who haven't had the training have to start asking themselves.
00:13:24
Speaker
And two more points that I want to make before we finish our conversation here today is one is the ethical issue as well.
00:13:32
Speaker
If we are going to call ourselves coaches, I think if we are going to represent ourselves to the public, that we are coaches, I would think at least for me, that would be imperative for me to know what is what
00:13:48
Speaker
There is an industry here.
00:13:50
Speaker
What are the qualifications of this industry?
00:13:54
Speaker
What is the industry saying?
00:13:55
Speaker
What are the expectations that we have towards that particular practice?
00:14:03
Speaker
Regardless if there is, if you have to have license or you don't have license, there is, I would think that ethically speaking, I would be curious to know best practices and follow industry standards.
00:14:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:20
Speaker
That's one point for me, for us to keep in mind.
00:14:24
Speaker
And one last thing, you know, some people who haven't gotten training might be making good money in their practices.
00:14:32
Speaker
They had solid networks from before, whatever it is.
00:14:36
Speaker
And some are struggling.
00:14:38
Speaker
Now does, does coach training make you money?
00:14:41
Speaker
That's up to you.
00:14:42
Speaker
You know, at the end of the day, you're an entrepreneur starting your own business.
00:14:46
Speaker
Um, all, all coach training can do for you though, is make you a really good and effective coach.
00:14:51
Speaker
But here's the question.
00:14:53
Speaker
If you, you haven't had coach training, if you're churning clients, you have a lot of attrition and they're turning over fast to three months, six months, whatever.
00:15:03
Speaker
Um,
00:15:04
Speaker
chances are you're not providing a space for your clients to grow into.
00:15:09
Speaker
You don't have enough expansion and flexibility in your abilities as a coach to keep the client engaged into their own growth.
00:15:22
Speaker
Right.
00:15:23
Speaker
That's I've signed.
00:15:24
Speaker
I have people sign up and I'm sure you do too.
00:15:25
Speaker
Ilias and a lot of other coaches have people sign up for only a few months.
00:15:29
Speaker
Okay.
00:15:29
Speaker
We'll get through this in a few months.
00:15:31
Speaker
And a year and a half later, they're still with you because they didn't even realize they could grow to that, that stretch to that point.
00:15:38
Speaker
So this is another thing to keep in mind is client retention is directly related.
00:15:46
Speaker
I think to, to the depth of the coach's skills and their abilities.
00:15:50
Speaker
Right.
00:15:51
Speaker
One final point that I would like to make, which I mentioned before, is this idea of it's not just a question of getting coaching education, but make sure to have quality coaching education.
00:16:05
Speaker
That's very important as well.
00:16:08
Speaker
You know, make sure that the education they have.
00:16:10
Speaker
that you get is first of all at a minimum that that school is an accredited school with the ICF follows ICF standards and but also even with an accredited school make sure that you check with former students and what the students the students experience and what the students are saying
00:16:33
Speaker
So that you can really get a sense of the quality of the education that you have.
00:16:40
Speaker
Yes, you can be effective with your clients without coach training.
00:16:46
Speaker
I'm not sure if you are very clear about what coaching truly is and the power of coaching.
Exploring Quality Coaching Education
00:16:52
Speaker
So I would encourage every listener here to get curious about the training and what it means.
00:16:58
Speaker
We would love to work with you as here at Prime Coaching Academy, either a level one or level two, or even have a conversation with you.
00:17:05
Speaker
So if you have, if you're curious about that, reach out and we would love to talk with you and see, you know, what is support to you and what is the best path for you moving forward.
00:17:17
Speaker
Amy, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and experience here with us.
00:17:23
Speaker
Everyone, we are going to take a short break with these episodes.
00:17:27
Speaker
And so this is the conclusion of season two.
00:17:30
Speaker
We are going to come back with season three in a few more weeks.
00:17:34
Speaker
And we're excited about some new things that we're going to bring to our podcast.
00:17:39
Speaker
So stay tuned.
Season Finale and Future Engagements
00:17:40
Speaker
Continue to share these episodes with others and don't forget to subscribe if you're not.
00:17:46
Speaker
If you have not subscribed, check our YouTube channel.
00:17:49
Speaker
Oh my gosh, so much going on there in our YouTube channel, including coaching demonstrations, which is so important for the development of a coach.
00:17:59
Speaker
And enjoy the summer here for us in the Northern Hemisphere or wherever you are.
00:18:07
Speaker
And we will see you next time.
00:18:09
Speaker
Take care, everybody.
00:18:11
Speaker
Bye, everyone.