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Episode 369: What to make of a "humbling" loss
68 Plays2 years ago
Coming off two resounding wins, the Sounders were dealt a “humbling” loss -- in the words of Cristian Roldan -- when they went on the road for the first time, falling 1-0 to FC Cincinnati. I wouldn’t say it was bad loss, per se, FCC is expected to be one of the best teams in the league this year but it was a bit of a reality check that the Sounders aren’t just going to prance through the league schedule.
They showed a bit of fight and even appeared to get the equalizer until VAR disallowed it, but will head into this week’s match against LAFC looking to rebound.
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This week's music: Perry Como - "Seattle", "RVIVR - "Ocean Song", Woody Guthrie - "Roll On Columbia", "Your Journey Begins" - OurMusicBox (Jay Man) (CC BY 4.0)
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Transcript
Introduction & Sponsorship
00:00:00
Speaker
This episode of Nos Arietes is sponsored by Fullpool Wines, a Seattle-based wine retailer and proud sponsor of Nos Arietes since 2011. Fullpool was founded in 2009, is based in Seattle, and is owned and operated by longtime sounder supporters. They offer the best boutique wines of the world to members of their mailing list, with special focus on their home, the Pacific Northwest.
Celebration of Seattle Sounders' MLS Cup Victory
00:00:21
Speaker
Hey, this is Christian Roldan. And Jordan Morris from the Seattle Sounders Football Club. And you're listening to... There's no study at this. Come on! Hey, Ocean! Let's go! I want to say bye-bye! The Seattle Sounders have done it! MLS Cup winners! And Portland can't say he's cheating! Here comes Rudy Diaz through the middle to crowd it for Seattle! They have climbed the mountain!
00:00:51
Speaker
And now our masters of all that they survey. Michael Odero leaves absolutely no doubt. The Sounders rule the region. Seattle Sounders, this can feel it. Seattle Sounders, the greatest MLS team in history. How does this one feel? This feels fucking awesome.
Episode Introduction & Recent Loss Analysis
00:01:39
Speaker
I didn't know what it was. Is that what you young people call twerking? I have no idea. I don't know.
00:01:51
Speaker
Welcome to another edition of NOS Adietta, sponsored by Full Pull Wines and Watson's Counter. This is episode 369, and we're recording on Tuesday, March 14th, 2023. I am your host, Jeremiah Shan. Joining me today is Aaron Campo, Susie Rants, and our engineer, Lickett.
00:02:07
Speaker
Coming off two resounding wins, the Sounders were dealt a humbling loss, and those are in the words of Christian Roldan, when they went on the road for the first time, falling 1-0 to FC Cincinnati. I wouldn't say it was a bad loss per se, but FCC is expected to be one of the best teams in the league this year. It was a bit of a reality check that the Sounders aren't just going to prance with the league's schedule. They showed a bit of fight and even appeared to get the equalizer until VAR disallowed it, but we'll head into this week's match against LAFC looking to rebound.
00:02:36
Speaker
So I don't know guys, any reason to worry on this one? Not from my perspective, too much. Obviously it was better when the sounders were beating teams 4-0, but yeah, it was more fun. We talked in the, you know, last week, we talked about how this was a game that was going to be a lot tougher. It was going to be a pretty decent test, but
00:02:56
Speaker
that, from my perspective at least, that it's not a game that you feel like you should win necessarily. It's a game that you would like to win. It's a game I think you should feel like you should get a point from. So definitely disappointing to not get a point from it, but just in terms of the performance and how the game unfolded and how I feel coming out of it, that's not a huge worry in isolation.
00:03:21
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. I think if they don't learn from it, obviously that would be something to worry about, but we are three games into the season. I think it was easy to get excited after the first two games, but always hard to go on the road in this league.
Sounders' Performance Metrics
00:03:37
Speaker
Um, in particular early in the season, I think. So, um, I think there were things that they've sounded corrected in the game. There's things that I hope they correct after the game, um, the first time facing a five person midfield. So it is going to be just a different kind of challenge. Um, and if there, there were some positives and some things that hopefully we can forget about, but I don't have long-term concerns.
00:04:03
Speaker
And I think it's worth noting, you can make what you will out of stats. But it was notable, I thought, that the sounders had more shots. They had more shots in the box. They had a higher XG. They won more duels. They had more possession.
00:04:21
Speaker
you kind of go down the list of all the sort of stats that you look at to tell you maybe not who should have won but like how evenly matched the game was and the reality was they gave up probably two real chances they may have had two decent chances of their own and
00:04:39
Speaker
You know, a 0-0 tie would have been perfectly appropriate. I think you could argue a 1-0 Sounders win would have been acceptable. 1-0 loss, also a 1-1 tie. Any of these things I think would have been within the realm of a reasonable result. And sometimes they just don't go your way. Now, it's kind of annoying that the Sounders now are on a 10 game road winless streak in which they're 0-9 and 1. They have
00:05:08
Speaker
lost all nine of those games by one goal, which is wild, and they've led in four of those. And so this is a continuation of a trend from last year that's very frustrating, but this game in isolation, I don't know, kind of shruggy. It's, it didn't, I don't, like the outcome felt like last year, but the way it happened, maybe not as much.
00:05:32
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. I was thinking, you know, last year teams kind of dropped, dropped off on the sounders, let them think around possession in the back clogged up the box. We crossed a bunch of balls in that didn't do anything. And that wasn't the feeling that I had watching this game. Cincinnati put a lot of pressure on our midfield. Um, it was like a different feel for like how we lost the game than it was.
00:05:55
Speaker
was last year. So for that reason, I don't have it. I wasn't thinking of last year at all when I was watching this game. Yeah, I think that's a great point, Susie, because the only thing that was reminiscent of last year, to me, was the way the goal was surrendered. But that's also the way a lot of goals are given up on the road against the team that's pressing, is you just make mistakes playing out of the back. And the benefits of playing out of the back, I think, are far outweigh.
00:06:24
Speaker
the occasional goal that you're going to give up that way. But I do think, I mean, the Sounders were creating chances. They were sticking to their tactical approach, which I think is really nice to
Tactical Analysis & Player Impact
00:06:33
Speaker
see. The really frustrating losses are the ones, like you said, where they're just pumping in balls into the box without any real hope of getting somebody on the end of them. I didn't see that really at all. I mean, even late into the game, there was still just a more intentional approach and there were still attempts to create chances in different ways.
00:06:54
Speaker
You know, I'm sure if the Sounders now go on a run where they're not scoring at all, we're probably going to see them revert to that. But I don't think there's any reason to expect they're going to go on a run like that because they did a decent job of creating chances in many of the same ways they have in the past. I just think that having Freddy Montero play a lot of the game instead of Vaybair or Ruri Diaz, who didn't come in until later. And I think it's still clearly building fitness is a pretty big reason that maybe they just didn't look as dangerous.
00:07:24
Speaker
You know, let's, let's focus on that one a little bit. I think we appreciated what a bear was doing in terms of his chance, his involvement in chances in those first two games. I don't know. And we may have talked about it on here, but I think it was just even more obvious with his absence, how important his holdup play was and how much of a.
00:07:43
Speaker
pressure valve release he was able to be in those first two games because it's not like the rapids and rsl simply sat back and let the sounders you know uh just attack attack attack uh they did at times try to press the sounders the rapids especially tried to press the sounders in the in the first game
00:08:01
Speaker
And a bear was a huge part of why they were able to play through that. And Freddie, who I think is a perfectly suitable backup forward, he was probably going to score, you know, he'll probably score five to eight goals against this year. He's just not the guy that's going to lead the line, though. And he didn't really do it last year. And that's just not a thing he's really suited to play. And they didn't really have a great option other than him with Rudy is still working his way back from a hamstring injury. But
00:08:30
Speaker
You know, I guess maybe it was just a this is just an appreciation for what a bear was doing. You know, he was doing a lot of that dirty work that they kind of needed, especially in that first half. But at the same time, I thought that they did a good job of getting back in the game in the second half. And it was a little ironic that they struggled so much to play out of the back, especially in the first half. But then they were kind of doing it OK in the second half. And then they give that those chances away.
00:08:59
Speaker
Yeah, I think one thing that Cincinnati does particularly well is just what they do when they win the ball. I was actually just looking it up their second in the league and shot creations from high turnovers. So I think that the Sounders, aside from us giving basically giving them the ball, did really well to manage that throughout the game.
00:09:24
Speaker
Um, so I I see that as a positive and hopefully a learning experience about just building from the back when a team is pressing high Um, I think schmetz might have even talked about it after the game on that goal kick Maybe we should have played long instead of trying short. Um, we were under pressure at that point. So um, I will say i'm tangent going on a tangent a little bit but just to address your a bear point I I feel like still this game was
00:09:50
Speaker
not lost, but like the challenge was in the midfield. And I'm not sure if he would have solved that. It's hard to say without him being in the game. Sorry, again, just to bring up one stat. The Sounders had the fewest touches in the middle third by 40 compared to their other two games. Oh, that is interesting.
00:10:10
Speaker
since he had the most touches as an opponent by 35.
Game Strategies & VAR Decisions
00:10:15
Speaker
So a lot more touches for the opponent, a lot fewer for the Sounders. And I think that's just like kind of where that battle was lost a little bit. And it did seem like.
00:10:25
Speaker
Jel Paolo, Nicole Adjo, and Russ Neck were all sort of just a little bit off on Connect. You know, one of the things that Schmetzer talked about is it wasn't so much that first pass out of pressure. It was the second and third pass that really gets you going on the counter attack and that opened the field where it was just like just a little bit off.
00:10:47
Speaker
where they weren't able to kind of open up their legs and get after it. One of those exceptions was in the 15th minute when Christian Roldan played a just absolutely gorgeous ball to Jordan Morris and he was able to get out on the wing, rounds Roman Sontano
00:11:06
Speaker
Is that right? And, uh, the goalkeeper and he, but Ray Gaddis to his credit kind of like pressures them, pushes them out a little to it. So it's a wide angle. He ends up putting in a ball that nearly scores, but I have to imagine if he scores that it changes the game a lot. Yeah, I think unquestionably. And I think that you could kind of see as the sounders.
00:11:32
Speaker
where it became less and less effective springing those counters because they were extremely effective early in the game, Cincinnati felt more and more comfortable pressing higher. And that is, I think, ultimately what led to the goal being given away. And I think that Susie is correct that the game was lost in the midfield. Most of them are, you know, I think. I do wonder if having more of an outlet is beneficial and can help take some of that pressure off the midfield.
00:12:02
Speaker
Um, and, and I also, I wonder, you know, Jeremiah, you said a couple of minutes ago, the sounders didn't really have any other options. And I think in this game that's totally correct. I don't think you can completely change your shape from what's been working, but I do kind of wonder if we're in this situation again, if maybe we see Leo Chu start on the left, Jordan Morris move central. Um, I don't know if that's going to make a huge difference in, in this game necessarily, but, but I do think that Freddie, Freddie has,
00:12:32
Speaker
for a long time, not necessarily been a guy that you want as a lone striker. And I think the things that make that, his shortcomings in that way have maybe gotten a little worse, it seems like. I mean, it's mostly physical, right? And because he just doesn't have the, maybe the first step, the burst to,
00:12:55
Speaker
You to have that kind of hold up later to dribble out of trouble quickly the way that he did when he was a lot younger. I think that maybe that's a little more pronounced I do think he's still a very good guy to have around especially at this cap it but.
00:13:09
Speaker
I do, I do wonder even if I agree that that wasn't the thing that lost this game. I do think that the Sounders could have been a little more effective maybe with, you know, somebody who could alleviate some of that pressure, provide a little bit more in the holdup and also be a little more threatening than behind sort of in the center of the pitch instead of coming in off the wings. Yeah. I think when you're playing against a high line, like.
00:13:34
Speaker
Sometimes the direct playing more direct is the right choice. And when you don't have an outlet to play direct, um, uh, that makes it, I mean, Jordan Morris had two great, he created two, one and, and had a great scoring chance early in the match because of that. Um, so I totally agree from that sense.
00:13:52
Speaker
Well, let's talk about that other chance that Jordan created. It was a really great assist to Yemar and he made a good play. He beat his man to set up the cross. He hits a pretty much a perfect cross to Yemar at the back post who slams at home. He's wide open. Turns out on replay though, part of the reason he was wide open was he, I don't know what's the right way to, he swam past his defender
00:14:22
Speaker
But got his hand up in the face. And the thing that's at least to me that was after walking it enough times, like to me, it's a foul. Like you hit a guy in the face like that.
00:14:33
Speaker
It's going to get called. It's, there's not really a point in debating it. It's that's what's going to happen. But what bums me out a little bit is realizing that, uh, the reason he made context is mascara is playing him as if he's running near post. And if he, instead of hitting him in the face, like just has his arm down, he probably could have still gotten just as free and still got into the back post and maybe even had a wide open header. Yeah. And maybe he needs to learn a basketball spin move.
00:15:02
Speaker
right or right. Yeah. I know. He was so open. He was so open. And it was that there's just, but you could tell like, you almost, it looked like he maybe knew that it was coming back because he didn't celebrate at all. Brian Schmetzer didn't celebrate at all. Uh, when, you know, when the referee makes his decision, roll really ideas is standing right there and he just kind of
00:15:24
Speaker
doesn't yell, doesn't scream. He just is like, Oh, all right, here we go. Yeah. And I've seen, I've seen roll tilted someone mills for, for calls before. So the fact that he didn't really react is I think telling and ended up being one of three pretty big calls in this game. Uh, the, the other one was, uh, VAR intervened to call red card, which
00:15:47
Speaker
very clearly the right call, right? And I think one of the things that maybe gets lost a little bit in the discussion that was on TV was it wasn't violent conduct, it was
00:16:00
Speaker
a dogso red card because where you measure dogso from is not once Rui Diaz has recovered as he is the defender in position to make the play, it's when the foul happens and he's clearly through on goal if the foul doesn't happen. If Hagelin just lets him go, he's through on goal, it's dogso.
00:16:20
Speaker
Yeah, if you watch that clip based on when Raoul, like, separates from him and then kind of throws himself on the ground, which is the right move to do to get the call, you'd be like, oh, come on, Sam, who's flapping? Right. But that's not when you measure it. And I think they did a good job of calling it. The other one, though, the other consequential call ends up being a handball, also on Nick Hegland.
00:16:46
Speaker
And I, my reaction when I first see it is nothing because no one's really reacting. And then there is some uproar of like, Hey, his arm. And then they show the replay. His arm is fully above his head, which I don't know what he's doing there. Why is his arm up there? And so on the front view, when you see it, you, all you see is his arm up and you're like, okay, well, if he touched it, that's a, it's going to be the easiest call they ever make. But then they show the reverse angle.
00:17:16
Speaker
not so clear. Yeah. I don't, I think my initial reaction was, if you touch that it's the easiest handball to call of all
Jordan Morris' Influence & LAFC Match Preview
00:17:24
Speaker
time. And I kind of assumed he had touched it. Yeah. But they're just, I think, I think it's tough to call that on the field with that angle. Like I just, I can't, even if
00:17:36
Speaker
Even if they don't call it on the field and they review the replay and it kind of looks like it touches his hand, I just, I don't think anybody could complain. Although that Cincinnati crowd would have certainly complained if that gets called, but I just, I can't feel too aggrieved by it not getting called.
00:17:55
Speaker
Yeah. I, my thing is if, if it had been called live, like if the call in the field was originally handball, I don't think the evidence, the video would not have overturned it. I don't think because you just can't tell like the video is not clear enough to say it hit his hand or his head first. And frankly, the way the ball came off. Looked like it was off Yamer's head to me.
00:18:17
Speaker
I would also say, even if it did hit his hand, and even if that's an objectively very stupid place to have your hand, and that's not making a difference. Like that's not a situation where it's a handball should get called, right? I'm not saying that, but
00:18:34
Speaker
I just can't, I don't feel like that they gained any advantage in that situation. Um, so I, yeah. Yeah. And with, with like how bar is being utilized in or like how there's controversies around bar in the premier league where it's like, Oh, was it a centimeter off or not? I just like, I think this like, is it conclusive? Is it not is I think it's a good place to be personally.
00:19:00
Speaker
Yeah, I think as much as I don't love the collection of outcomes, I actually think VAR worked almost exactly how it was supposed to in this game. All three calls ended up with the result that it should... I don't think you get... Calling it down the middle, hard to argue with any of the, ultimately, the decisions.
00:19:27
Speaker
That doesn't take away, though I do think it's interesting that that's the second goal that Jordan Morris had an assist on that got taken off the board by replay, which is
00:19:40
Speaker
that are right calls, but they're, they're good signs. I think like, and I, and I don't think Jordan Morris had a great game in this one. He was a little quieter, but still he found ways to impact. And I think that's one of the things that we weren't seeing last year is when he wasn't in a game, he just disappeared. And in the game, in this game, even though he was not as influential as he was in the first two, he still was in the middle of three or four really, you know, uh, really dangerous sequences.
00:20:10
Speaker
I think that even though this was not a great game for Jordan, it was probably better than any game he had in the second half of last season. Yeah, I think you're right. He looked like he even though he wasn't completely on his game, he looked like a player who was extremely confident, knows what his strengths are and was trying to make things happen. That's about all you can ask for.
00:20:35
Speaker
Yeah, I remember in some of those games at the end of last season, it was like 14 touches, 15 touches. And he was near, I think, 30 last weekend or something. So you obviously want him to be high all the time because of what he can do. But it wasn't like he was never getting the ball at least. Yeah. Yeah. And again, it wasn't just the number of touches. It was that when he did touch it, it was
00:21:02
Speaker
there were dangerous chances like he was he was doing something with it. He was pushing it forward. He was, you know,
00:21:09
Speaker
He was, he was creating danger. He, you know, and that's just kind of what all you can ask for really. Um, flip side, Christian ruled on maybe did not have as influential of a game. Uh, and some of the mid, like, as, as Susie said, some of the midfielders just weren't quite as sharp as, as you would have liked. Uh, that said. Another big test this weekend against LAFC, a team that's going to be playing its fourth match in 10 days. If I, my math is correct. Um,
00:21:37
Speaker
That doesn't seem to bother them right now. They are buzzing through teams. Of course they have a game on Thursday, is that right? No, Wednesday?
00:21:48
Speaker
I guess I should say Tuesday. Yeah. Wednesday. Okay. So it's tomorrow. Uh, and, but they come into this game against LO and say, uh, leading three zero, they're at home. They probably don't have to go all out. My, if I'm to run to low, I probably start my starters and then maybe make some changes at halftime at the games under control. What do you.
00:22:13
Speaker
You guys going to make any, what would you do in that one? You're up three zero against a potentially dangerous opponent at home. I think that if the sounders are in a situation like that, I probably don't start Raul. I probably don't start Nico. Um, basically anyone who.
00:22:33
Speaker
you're worried about. Anybody that is critical to the team and also maybe not springing back from injury, if they get hurt, I'm probably not going to start in that game. But LAFC I don't think has as many of those players. Right. You have some good depth in the attack too, which gives them some flexibility.
00:22:57
Speaker
Yeah, that's true. LA for sure has the, how did they do that roster? Like it's a little annoying. It's a little, because I think everybody knows that they did not do it. And then above the boardway, but that's this, they, I love that they, they picked up Timothy Tillman at the like last as like a throwaway piece. And he just looks like an absolute stud right now.
00:23:22
Speaker
Um, yeah, not, not, that's not what we like to see. That said a good test for the sounders. Uh, game's going to be at Loom and field. They're going to be, uh, debuting the Bruce Lee kits. One o'clock start should be a nice day, I think.
00:23:38
Speaker
And yeah, I think it's another good test for the sounders role. I think this will be a real sense of just how serious the sounders are. I don't think there is too much that disabused my notion that they'll be good against Cincinnati, but this is a game where maybe they need to... It's a little bit more important to actually get a result in.
00:23:59
Speaker
Yeah, and I don't think I mean I think if you can get a draw in this game I feel, I feel pretty good about that. I think, you know, this isn't a game in September, where you're duking it out for positioning this is, this is March and
00:24:15
Speaker
I think it's okay if you get a point against arguably the best team and and cock a calf at home, but It's also an opportunity. I mean to me it's like I look at more as an opportunity just because LAFC should have you know, they have a few mile there They should be a little worn down you would think Maybe who knows maybe they won't be but and again, it's at home. They don't is their only home game against LAFC I'm not saying I would be annoyed at a
00:24:45
Speaker
at one point, but it does feel like an opportunity. It does. I mean, if you get a point from this game, I think you have to feel really good. And I don't think it's completely out of the question. I just think that LAFC is a team that unless there are tangible stakes on the line in that game, you always got to feel pretty good about, you know, even at home.
00:25:09
Speaker
You have any insight into anything that you've liked or you see as a potential weakness in LAFC, Susie?
00:25:19
Speaker
Oh gosh. You're on the spot there. Uh, I, I think that maybe not obviously didn't give her many chances against Cincinnati on set pieces, but actually I think the Sounders have looked good on set pieces and, um, in the first two games. And that's always a great way to steal a goal from a really good team defensively. So, um, that, that makes me, I don't, I don't, I don't have like a sense that LAFC is bad at set piece defending, but I think that's, it would be great for the Sounders to get a couple of chances there.
00:25:49
Speaker
Yeah, no, it would be and and I I feel like one of their potential
00:25:56
Speaker
improvements this year comes on set piece attacking in the form of Jackson Reagan, who does look like he has, he's actually gotten better in the air, uh, since last year, where even though he was a big body, he hasn't really been the aerial presence that you would expect him to be. And this year he's, he, he looks much more in command of the, uh, on balls in the air. Head balls as Chad Marshall would say.
00:26:23
Speaker
Yeah. I also, I mean, I do think it's worth noting that LAFC absolutely blew the doors off New England, but, you know, whatever. They struggled against Portland and Portland's bad. That's a bad team. And so it's not like, and I know I just said they're arguably the best team in CONCACAF, but it's not like they are invulnerable, right? And I think that they do have
00:26:51
Speaker
some questions defensively, I guess. I think they're a good defensive team, but I don't think they are a brick wall by any stretch of the imagination. I think you can square goals against them. I do think that the odds that the Sounders are going to be able to go out and
00:27:05
Speaker
play the way they did against RSL or Colorado was, and I don't mean beat them for now, but I mean, just take that same approach to the game. I think you have to respect LAFC a little bit more. That doesn't mean you have to retreat into a shell, but it does mean that you have to recognize we're probably not going to be able to cut through these guys like a hot knife through butter, and we're going to have to take a slightly different approach. So it'll be interesting to see. Brian Schmetzer is
00:27:34
Speaker
Generally on record is saying, no, we're going to play this game the same way we play every game. And I think that's more or less usually the approach this time of year. So we'll see how it goes. But, you know.
00:27:47
Speaker
Yeah. Well, uh, that's probably a good place to call this a segment.
Listener Questions & Club World Cup Qualification
00:27:50
Speaker
We have a bunch of questions. We have, uh, some other news to talk about. Uh, the sounders qualified for the 2025 club world cup out of seemingly nowhere, uh, today. And, uh, we'll talk about that a little bit and answer a bunch of your questions. You're listening to NOS Adiates.
00:28:12
Speaker
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00:28:39
Speaker
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00:28:54
Speaker
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00:29:22
Speaker
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00:29:46
Speaker
Welcome back to Nos Ariathes. So before we get to questions, wanted to share a bit of news on the Club World Cup front. So today FIFA met and they put out a whole bunch of announcements about a bunch of things. The main headline of the announcement was that the Men's World Cup is
00:30:09
Speaker
Now they added 20 more games to it. So they're going to have four team groups instead of three team groups, which is the original plan. The knock-on effect is that Seattle is probably going to get somewhere between six and 18 games instead of four to six games. So potentially a couple more games in Seattle, which is pretty cool. But then buried in that release was
00:30:33
Speaker
a nugget that when I first saw, I literally double-tagged and then started texting people like, am I interpreting this correct? And they were all kind of like, I think you are. This is kind of big news. And that was that the Sounders have qualified for the 2025 Club World Cup, which was a complete surprise. I don't know. I guess if you think about it logically, it makes some sense because
00:31:00
Speaker
The club, this 2025 tournament has always been planned as sort of being a quadrennial tournament. So it was like a world cup, a real world cup for clubs. And so it was going to have 32 teams and they sort of always pitched it as well. The, the various champions league winners from over the years would get in, but then when they actually explained what that meant, it was the winners from 2021, 2022, 2023, and 2024,
00:31:26
Speaker
We're all qualified to this expanded tournament. Of course, the Sounders won in 2022. And sure enough, yes, the Sounders have already punched their ticket for the 2025 World Club, World Cup, which seems like it's going to be like, honestly, an awesome tournament. They're going to probably play four. It'll be like 14 groups. So the Sounders would be guaranteed three games if they advance. I mean, it's like a month long thing. It's like a real big tournament.
00:31:52
Speaker
Well, what I am curious about is the logistics of this because it's in June, July, like the June, July window. I hope, I really, really hope that MLS decides to schedule the league's cup concurrently with this thing, or else it's going to be a total nightmare. Yeah. Sounders are going to be playing like Tuesday, Thursday, Sunday. And yeah, I don't know how, yeah, I don't even know how, how feasibly you could do it. Like they,
00:32:20
Speaker
Like, and I would hope that what would happen is, is MLS will schedule this, the league's cup concurrently, especially since there's going to be a bunch of league at Mackie's teams in this theme as well. I mean, there could very well be, you know, two or three MLS teams and two or two or three league at Mackie's teams. And, and so hopefully they just excuse those teams from the league's cup and sort of like there's concurrent tournaments that are going on and it's clean and simple and everything else. Uh,
00:32:49
Speaker
And I suppose there's even a chance that this could be held in the United States. They're going to have to hold it someplace that has like a real football and for a real soccer infrastructure. Like you can't just go to, you know, Abu Dhabi, Morocco, and I would think and hold this whole tournament there.
00:33:06
Speaker
I wonder if I know that the confederation's copies usually the sort of the dry run, right for the World Cup, but this seems like it would maybe be a better. Yes. And that would be nice for the sounders to have a little bit of home field advantage. I mean, probably not a ton, but maybe, you know. Yeah.
00:33:24
Speaker
Yeah, I like that. Have grass for like a whole year and a half. That would be nice too. Yeah, hey. Yeah, now we're talking. Now we're really looking. I'm actually way more excited for this version of the Club World Cup than this year's. I think it's going to be a lot more fun and just way more fun. A more of a like true actual
00:33:44
Speaker
I know that the point of stuff like this doesn't have to be the best, most fair sports competition, but I do feel like something like this is a little bit better of a test for where MLS is globally than a one-off game. Oh, I totally agree. And I think that it is far more compelling of a product.
00:34:03
Speaker
I think it's gonna be a lot of fun. It's a little weird just because you have no idea what this team's gonna look like. But unlike this club World Cup where the Sounders basically said, it makes no sense for us to build a roster around trying to compete in this thing when it might only end up being one game. I think you can make an argument that you wanna build a roster sort of with this tournament very front of mind.
00:34:33
Speaker
Uh, if for no other reason, then presumably there's some money, uh, a significant amount of money that you can win as part of it. Yeah. It would be nice if MLS decided, Hmm, maybe we should help her help out a little bit for once in international competition. I'm not holding my breath, but yeah. We need like a rain partnership, like with Olympic Leonais and get the like loan players for a couple months. That's not bad idea actually.
00:35:10
Speaker
I'm sure, I'm sure there's some players that can help the Sounders on this. All right. Well, let's get to the questions though. Uh, so this one, uh, is first from T Willett 81. Simply put, I think we get this every time the Sounders lose. Is it time to panic? Have three years. And yes, it always is. Just like it's always fine to enjoy early season lens. It's always fine to panic as well. Yeah. Oh, nothing bad ever happens from panic. No, of course not.
00:35:25
Speaker
Yeah, I like that partnership. Some good players on the men's side a little bit on in Leon. Yeah.
00:35:42
Speaker
I always bring a towel, so I don't panic. Yeah. Just I assumed, is that to bite on or what is the... No, that's from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. Nerd talk. I should have known. I just blew my street cred with that one. All right. This is from Garrett Amini. He says, is a bear the difference between the first two games in Cincinnati?
00:36:06
Speaker
I kind of talked about this. It's like they read our minds. I know. I mean, we kind of dealt with this, but I guess it depends on which one of us you're asking. Maybe, I would say. Yeah, maybe. But I do. I will say I think Rui Diaz, if Rui Diaz is
00:36:25
Speaker
is able to play 90 minutes in that game. I suspect we miss a bear less. If he starts against LAFC, I think that's, you know, that's a good sign. He was at, you know, he seems to be training in full. There was a funny story that I ran today in Sounder at Heart about his
00:36:46
Speaker
He got upset today. He was walking, you know, like, I don't know, two thirds of the way through practice. He got sent off the field and he kind of came walking back and you could tell he was upset about something. And I was like, oh, is he hurt? And he started walking off and then he decided instead of walking back to the locker room, he decided to do a lap around the whole training field. And I was like, this doesn't seem good.
Sounders' Tactical Approach & Player Roles
00:37:07
Speaker
And then, uh, eventually Schmester came over to him and he sort of like shoot him away and he just, he just walked away. And so we asked Schmester what's going on here and he's like,
00:37:16
Speaker
He's on a program and the trainers say he's got to come off. He's got to come off and he didn't, he wanted to play more. And it's like, I guess that's a good sign. Yeah, for real. Uh, but anyway, uh, he's not heard, uh, according to Spencer.
00:37:31
Speaker
The story seemed very plausible. This is from not Rossi would playing a back five have helped in Cincinnati playing away to an offensive team while we are short on forwards and deep on center backs. Think we'll see that at all this year would be would it be another good tactical ring or they think it would be another good tactical wrinkle.
00:37:51
Speaker
I think maybe, but I also think that given the way the first two games went, you're sort of trying to play a new system, a new style of play. I don't think you can make that drastically change three games into the season, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't have worked. I just think that I understand why they wouldn't have done that.
00:38:13
Speaker
Yeah, I think in the second half, um, I think Schmetzer talked about this too, but Alex dropped a little, a lot deeper in buildup to, to like make sure that they were, they were able to have numbers to build from deep. And I think actually did help a lot in possession, especially if you're playing against a team that is good in transition.
00:38:33
Speaker
I don't think I wouldn't classify Cincinnati as like an offensive powerhouse. I think they're really good and organized and they punish teams at the right time. So I think that was the right approach and I'm not sure if a back five would have changed that necessarily. It's just kind of how do you position people as you're building it?
00:38:50
Speaker
And the challenge always is, right? Who do you take off? Because it's not as simple as you just bring in a third center back. It's like, you got to take, like, are you taking Russnack off? Are you taking Joe Paolo off? I don't think against that. Like to me, those are the two of the guys that you are going to be most press resistant, theoretically, at least. Like those are the guys that should help you break the press. And so is Javier Arriaga going to do a better job
00:39:19
Speaker
than Jow Paulo. I'm skeptical of that one. I am curious when Ariaga is going to get on the field though.
00:39:29
Speaker
Yeah, that's, uh, I guess they haven't really been in a ton of situations where he was needed, but it is, it is becoming notable. Uh, this is from Paultastic 1977, master O'Shan and gentle person Campo. If you had to choose one player whose breakout season would dictate the most team success, whose breakout would that be?
00:39:52
Speaker
Uh, well, I think we should let, uh, industrious rants take, yeah. Yeah. I'm sharing it. Yeah. That just seems good. I think it fits that. Oh God, this is a hard one. Actually. I actually feel like.
00:40:07
Speaker
And Aaron touched on this. The way that Cincinnati was playing and defending, a player like Leo Chu, having more time in that game, I think could have been a difference maker. He brings something different than anyone else in our attack does. And if you can figure out the best way to utilize him, you have so many more options when a game isn't going your way. You have so many more options to start him if the opponent looks a certain way.
00:40:36
Speaker
Um, so I feel like every year we're like, this is, let's just break out here. But, um, I really do feel like if they can tap into his skill, um, it, it would, it would dictate the team's success quite a bit. Yeah. I think Leo too is, is objectively the right answer. I think just, he's, he's the guy where there's a position, maybe not of weakness, but.
00:41:01
Speaker
definitely where the sounders are maybe not as deep as other places. And so I think that is the correct answer, but for the sake of keeping it interesting, I'll say Josh Atencio. Oh, and just because I think Josh Atencio fulfilling his potential would be really cool. And I just, you know, I don't,
00:41:27
Speaker
I don't know, you know, I don't follow the younger guys as much as some other people do, but he's always been the one that excited me the most just because I think he has a cool skill set. So yeah, why not?
00:41:42
Speaker
Yeah, fair enough. Uh, I, I'll, I'll go a different direction. I, and I think I sort of, I said this in one of my columns is if Jordan Morris ends up going from being a very good MLS player to like an MVP contender this year, I think that sort of raises the whole.
Goalkeeper Evaluation & Succession Planning
00:42:00
Speaker
the whole level of the team. Like if, if you, if you can get a 20 goal, you know, eight assists season out of Jordan Morris, that just has so many downstream effects, I think of, of what the ceiling of the team ends up being. And so, you know, Jordan Morris ends up going, yeah, if he ends up having like another, another MVP caliber season, I just think that is a, is a, is a good sign for what this team is ultimately capable of doing.
00:42:29
Speaker
I almost said Jordan, so I'm glad you did. Yeah, good. This is from Jess Gale. Is Fry finally starting to look his age? And if so, do you expect the club to start transitioning to Cleveland with some starts? Or do you ride or die with Steph? I guess Steph Fry, not Steph Cleveland. And is Cleveland a realistic heir, or will they bring in someone new and shiny?
00:42:54
Speaker
I have not seen anything from Stephen Fry that makes me think that he's not still far and away the best keeper on the team. Uh, I think Cleveland's a great backup and I think could, could start for, for several teams and maybe he could be the guy we haven't, I don't think seen enough of a extended run to know that for sure. But I just, I haven't seen anything from, from Stephen Fry this year that, that makes me concerned that he's at the end of the road.
00:43:21
Speaker
Yeah, I think people maybe didn't notice because they blew out Colorado so much, but the Sounders give up actually quite a few dangerous chances in that game and Fry came up huge. The score line doesn't reflect that at all, but I think it was the highest expected goals they've given up for the three games by a lot.
00:43:42
Speaker
but I think double. I think we gave it like 1.4 XG in that game, which was more than double what they gave up to Kansas City or to Cincinnati. But yeah, you're right. You're totally right. He looked great in the first two games. And, you know, he could have probably, I think he probably could have saved the Brenner shot. And he had a giveaway on the chance before that.
00:44:09
Speaker
But I don't like goalkeepers aren't perfect and he wasn't perfect in that game, but he's played three and he's looked good in two. I'm not quite ready to say he's washed. I am curious though who.
00:44:24
Speaker
The Sounders really see, I think Cleveland is the backup, but I don't know that they necessarily see him as the heir apparent. I know they're really high on Jacob Castro, who's the homegrown that they signed. He physically looks like a elite goalkeeper. He's probably 6'4", 6'3". He's very athletic. He just strikes you when you see him on the field, you think, okay, this guy could be an elite goalkeeper.
00:44:52
Speaker
And, you know, low key, they've kept Andrew Thomas around for, this is his third season. He's dealt with pretty significant injuries each of the last two seasons, but they keep bringing him back because I think they really like him. Like they really think he's a potentially a really good goalkeeper. He has more, he's more in the Nick Raimondo mold.
00:45:15
Speaker
They've got four distinct kind of different styles of goalkeeper in there. And they even got some guys down in the academy that they really like.
Open Cup Strategy & Mental Game
00:45:24
Speaker
And so I think they feel pretty secure with the kind of the
00:45:31
Speaker
the succession planning they have behind Fry, which also leads me to believe they're not that worried about Fry in the current, because they have players that they could be pushing Fry out if they wanted to, I guess is my point. So I'm not ready to give up on Steph Fry, though. I still think he's got at least another, you know, borderline elite year in him. It's kind of crazy to think about how sure everybody was that it was going to be Trey Musa.
00:46:01
Speaker
Yeah Jamie's who's not in the organization and I don't know is in professional soccer right now. He's playing for Charleston although I don't think oh he is okay yeah I don't think he's the starter there and I don't I'm not dancing on the kid's grave or anything no I know how goalkeepers sometimes go yeah it's a hard one to like I feel like it's a hard one to scout sometimes at younger ages but yeah I watched Castro's highlights from college and
00:46:26
Speaker
He's like, so his reactions are so quick. He's yeah, um, could be really exciting. Yeah. Yeah. No, I totally agree. Uh, this one's from GW Caldwell. Uh, open cup starts soon. What can we expect as far as lineups? We know Lagerwei preferred to play the kids in the early stages. Do you think Weibull thinks the same way?
00:46:49
Speaker
I don't know. Do you guys want to, I can take a shot at this if you guys don't really feel comfortable with that one. Sure. Go for it. I mean, I think that the, the early stages of the, of the open cup or sort of like when you have to play your depth pieces, like if you're, and I think this is, I, we sometimes look at those early years of the sounder success in the open cup. And I think we sometimes have.
00:47:17
Speaker
Maybe blinders is the wrong word. But yes, Casey Keller played in games that when you think about like, why was Casey Keller playing at Starfire when this is a guy who was like playing for some of the biggest clubs in the world. But other than him, it wasn't like they were rolling out their first choice lineups even in 2010 to 2011. They also had thinner rosters at that time, just like in terms of raw numbers.
00:47:42
Speaker
But so they kind of had to play more of their starters. But my point is.
00:47:48
Speaker
you need to be able to navigate those early rounds of the Open Cup with your reserves. Now, if you can advance beyond those first couple rounds, great. Then maybe start bringing in more of your starters as you go farther into the tournament. But I think the worst thing you could do is unnecessarily burn through your veteran starters in these early games, which frankly, you should be able to beat USL
00:48:14
Speaker
competition with your reserve players. And if you can't, you probably don't deserve to win the open cup. It's kind of simple in that way. I think too, if you're a fringe first team player and you can't play in the first open cup game, that can't be good for your confidence. Right. If the coach doesn't like, that's when you, you feel like, okay, you know, I'm not, I'm not a first team guy. I'm not going to get a lot of starts and maybe I'm not even getting a lot of sub appearances, but I'm going to get to play in the open cup and try to show
00:48:43
Speaker
what I can do, if the coach is not feeling confident in you in those games, that's not good. A whole host of reasons. The benefit too is that virtually all of the young players who are more rotational have been with the Sounders now for a couple of years. They know the system. It's a lot easier for them to jump into a game like this.
00:49:06
Speaker
Yeah, I want to see Reed Baker Whiting starting at right back. I want to see Ethan Dobler. I want to see Dylan Tevez. I want to see Joshua Tenzio and Danny Leyva and Obed Varius. These are the guys I want to see. And it's not about how serious are the sounders about trying to win this thing, because I do think there's something to be said about the mentality of how serious you take a
00:49:29
Speaker
any given tournament is not just about what lineup you put out there. It's, it's the mentality of the players. It's whether or not they really believe it's important that they try to win this thing and that it's not just another scrimmage. And I think that is something that Schmetzer has done a pretty good job of instilling and, or at least trying to try to explain is that
00:49:49
Speaker
your seriousness in a tournament is not dictated by just your, your pick of players. It's, it's like how well they're able, the people you do pick, how well they're able to execute the game plan. And I think, you know, one of the things I've seen people talking about with Austin went out today, they, they, uh, failed to advance past, uh, is via leta from Haiti, which is a team that in the second leg, especially was effectively a pickup team. Like they were literally signing guys, uh, who could,
00:50:19
Speaker
just get on the field like it was they had all these visa issues and even the team that they won the first leg 3-0 with hadn't played in almost a year. They haven't played a competitive game in almost a year. You talk about the disadvantage the Sounders were in when they were playing all Ali in the club World Cup and they hadn't played a competitive game in four months.
00:50:40
Speaker
times that by three is essentially what, or at least by two. And that's what Violeta was facing. And the problem wasn't that Austin put out a bunch of scrubs on the field, it was that they didn't have the mentality they needed to take an opponent seriously, and they paid for it. Yeah, I mean, people forget that I think that the timbers had all of their DPs on the field when they lost Galaxy.
00:51:06
Speaker
Yeah, I mean it doesn't and like the Sounders lost the the year that they lost to the was at the rowdies. Yeah. But scored a penalty in that game. Like it really like you're right. Like you you can play your starters doesn't mean you're going to win. Right. And you're like your kids are likely to be extremely motivated for these games. Yeah. Yeah.
00:51:34
Speaker
Yeah. Um, you know, the sounders lost to, or they went out and penalties to San Jose last year, I think. And that was a competitive game. They had, and I don't, but I don't think it
Apple TV Deal & Viewing Experience
00:51:45
Speaker
was a lineup. Like the reason they didn't, I mean, the reason they didn't advance is because, I mean, there was a decent game. Uh, but I just don't think that the.
00:51:53
Speaker
I think we spend too much time talking about lineup decisions in the open cup games and we need to be more focused on how well the team performed. And sometimes it's just not good enough. Anyway, onto the next subject. This is from Bill Jones Trumpet. It says, what will a tangible benefit of MLS's Apple TV look like as an MLS fan? And as a Sounders fan, the short term seems like a net loss as a Sounders fan.
00:52:23
Speaker
And I will say, I'll just add this, I feel like opinions on the Apple deal are all over the place. I think it's been pretty good, but I'm also not necessarily consuming it in the same way that a lot of other people are. But what do you guys think?
00:52:39
Speaker
I think that we talked about this a little bit on a previous show. It's the trend that broadcast is going in and you're seeing less and less investment from more of the linear TV
00:52:56
Speaker
station. So I think that if you're looking like longer term that they're getting ahead and they're going to get it right potentially like is one potential outlook on it. For me like the quality of the broadcast being so much better is personally for me as a fan of soccer a huge benefit like and I think the rest of it I personally don't care as much about.
00:53:24
Speaker
Yeah, to me, one of the obvious criticisms, one of the most common criticisms of the Apple deal, whether or not you, taking the linear over-the-air part of it, is just the quality of the announcers, especially in the first three sounders games, hasn't been great. I'm not going to sit here and defend the quality of the announcers, and that's a legitimate frustration. I'm not going to tell people they shouldn't care about who the announcers are.
00:53:52
Speaker
But the picture is better, the audio quality is better. And we also talked about how I think sounders fans are maybe going to feel a little bit more hard done by this deal because we had it really good. We did this interview with Casey Keller that just aired the other day. And he was talking about how the sounders were basically doing a national quality broadcast at the local level.
00:54:19
Speaker
And I don't think you can really dispute that, but it did sort of give us a different sense of what the standard was around the league. And most teams were not doing that. So in the short term, it might not be as great for the Sounders, but I really I'm still pretty bullish on the long term benefit. And I would also say from my perspective,
00:54:44
Speaker
I understand why it's seen as a net negative for Sounders fans because I've gone from a lot of free over the air games to having to pay and all that. For me, as a Sounders fan, I would happily pay to have the better quality audio, to have the built-in DVR ability, I guess you would say, to have the better quality video feed. And I do think that announcers are one of those things that
00:55:12
Speaker
when you're used to your home team guys, even if they're not great, you just kind of get used to them. And I think as people get maybe a little more used to some of the announced teams, it'll start to grate less, but I also like,
00:55:25
Speaker
I think I'm just maybe not as concerned. Like I noticed that announced cruise, but it's very rare that they, I feel like they negatively impact my viewing experience that much. I can tune it out pretty easily. And I'm not saying that you're wrong to not feel that way. I mean, it's part of the presentation, right? So I get it. But for me, it's not a big deal, but I'm much happier with things this year than previous years. Not wondering whether or not I have Vaseline Smirn on my TV screen is nice.
00:55:54
Speaker
Yeah, as someone who watches a lot of NWSL on Twitch, it's like a potato cam. But I think that that hurts casual viewers. It makes the product on the field look bad when the quality of the broadcast isn't bad. And if we want people to take MLS seriously, I do feel pretty strongly that the broadcast quality has to meet that. Otherwise, it does. It looks a little like the game's a little cheaper or something.
00:56:24
Speaker
I think if you're an MLS skeptic and you turn on ESPN and you say, Disney cannot even be asked to break out the HD cameras for this, you have to wonder how seriously you should take it. Whether that's fair or not, it's reality. I don't know how other people feel, and I think maybe all three of us are in agreement, but if I have to choose between
00:56:47
Speaker
Really great announcers and really only okay video or really great video and only okay or bad announcers. I'll take the video every single time because I just like the announcers oftentimes for me are just sort of like background noise. I want to be able to see what's happening. I want to I want I don't want like the thing that drives me crazy is unnecessary zoom shots way more than insane stuff that announcers might say. Yeah.
00:57:17
Speaker
I don't want to miss like just don't make me miss the action you can say whatever you want you can you can I can disagree with you about whether or not that was a red card but like show me the show me the play yeah I'll also say and I know that this is probably a negative for some sounders fans because I think a lot of sounders fans are
00:57:33
Speaker
at best and different to the rest of MLS. But I really enjoy how the way the product is presented, the way the experience is presented, forces you to engage with the rest of the league and sort of stay in the loop with what's going on a little bit more than watching on Joe TV or whatever it was.
Attendance Challenges & Fan Engagement Strategies
00:57:51
Speaker
I like that. I think it helps the experience and it helps me feel a little more connected to the league.
00:57:56
Speaker
And I'll add, my assumption is it's only going to get better as they work these things out. Like right now, if you've tried to listen to the radio feed, it does sound a little tin canny. And I would hope they can do something to fix that because it does sound... There's a big difference between the way the audio sounds
00:58:18
Speaker
through the main channel and through the alternate radio feed. And hopefully that's something that can get fixed, but hopefully I just use some home bill. Uh, this one's from Tom glands. He says, I know there's been a bit of a discussion on this already in terms of causes, but do you think the 50th refresh is the best way to reboost club interest and maybe attendance, any other strategies that could work like big blocks of cheaper ticks or city marketing, a city in city marketing Bush?
00:58:47
Speaker
You guys have any opinions on attendance, essentially. I do, but I'd like to give Susie a first crack if she has some. Yeah, those are the ways we haven't heard on this subject. I think a lot about it from the RAIN perspective. So I think that
00:59:07
Speaker
There's just so much competition for sports in Seattle. I think that's a reality and you've added now the Kraken which are really popular you've added XFL which I probably will never watch to be honest but.
00:59:25
Speaker
I think you do have to be smart about the marketing goal is to bring on long-term fans, not fans that are going to come for one or two games. You want to get as many people to as many games as possible. And so I don't know if I have brilliant ideas on how they do that besides a great product, great community outreach, the stuff that they're already doing, amplify it by more. That's just my personal take on it.
00:59:53
Speaker
I, I've also been thinking about this a lot lately and I kind of wonder that the, the sounders can fill that stadium when they, when there's something online, right? They, they filled the stadium for, uh, for the CCL final. I don't get a sense that people are, that there are people that were sounders fans that are not anymore, right? More, more so than the, just the normal Evan flow. What I do think that.
01:00:19
Speaker
ticket prices have gone up, there is more competition for your ticket dollars. And I also think that people are just...
01:00:27
Speaker
I mean, we had a pandemic where people stayed inside for the better part of two years. A lot of people just don't go out as much as they used to. And so if they're saying, well, I want to go to a sporting event, but I've never been to a cracking game, uh, or I haven't seen the rain at, at Lumen or whatever it is. Or the Mariners are in the middle of their first playoff. Yeah, exactly. Uh,
01:00:53
Speaker
25 years or whatever it was. Go ahead. I'll let you finish. Yeah. I like to think that my sounders and bona fides are pretty strong, but I've been to
01:01:11
Speaker
five wrestling shows for the one Sounders game I've seen like in the last couple of years. It's just like people's, the stuff they want to do changes, people's priorities change for how they want to spend their money and their time. And I do think that as we get deeper into the season attendance will probably come up. I do think, you know,
01:01:36
Speaker
a refresh of the brand and a marketing push for the 50th anniversary could help get people reengaged a little bit. But I also, I think the sounders probably have realized we don't have to, the day is where we're the club that sells out every game and we're putting, you know, we're building, like those days are over. We don't need to have 40,000 people here just to be relevant. Yeah. They're still making plenty of money, I think. Um,
01:02:04
Speaker
And I think I really think it's more that's more just of a concern of like, are the sounders losing relevance, and in a larger sense and a more holistic sense I don't think they are. I, yeah, I think I would agree with all that.
01:02:24
Speaker
We, I think we maybe, if there were some missteps, I think the sounders maybe started to overthink like maximizing ticket revenue by having, I don't know, a hundred different price points on throughout the year. And I think that sort of just creates barriers to people wanting to
01:02:50
Speaker
know, go to random games, like their best I can tell their season ticket retention rate is still pretty strong. But I think a lot of people are just finding that, you know, if they were if they were spending, let's say 1200 bucks on a couple season tickets, if they don't feel like they can go to 17 games, and they don't feel like they can sell the games they can't go to,
01:03:16
Speaker
They're just not, you know, it's not that they don't care about the sounders anymore. It's just that they don't feel like they need to go to every game. They don't need to go. They don't need to have tickets for every game. And, and I don't know that that's, you know, that's not necessarily an easy fix. And I think the sounders are sort of settling into this thing where it's like, they're a really relevant team, but just because you're relevant doesn't mean you're going to have.
01:03:40
Speaker
40,000 fans at every game and we're not every team's not the Seahawks where you're gonna sell out no matter what and And like and I think we saw that like the Mariners are sort of in a weird way a good example of like there was always this huge Mariners fan base here and
01:03:55
Speaker
They just needed a reason to come out to the games. And, and I don't know, I suspect if the centers go on a great postseason run, like we saw a lot, we don't have to go back that far. They sold 69,000 plus tickets to the champions league final. Like when there's an event, when there's a reason to go, people are still going to go. And I don't know. I've also been, I don't know. I haven't been able to put numbers to this, but I am curious.
01:04:17
Speaker
If you add up the sounders and rain attendance, I would imagine the total number of people that are attending soccer matches in the Seattle area is probably reasonably stable. And if the sounders are like, I don't know.
01:04:31
Speaker
I'm sure the Sounders don't feel this way, but I feel this way as a, as a fan, if the Sounders lost 2000 fans a game who decided to go to the rain games last year. That's a pretty good trade, frankly. Like I don't, I don't have any, like that's, I think it's great. Like I, I hope the, I would love it if the rain draw 10,000 this year, 10,000 a game this year, which I don't know if that's how possible it is. But as a result of that, the centers only draw 30,000 a game.
01:04:58
Speaker
Count me in. I think that's great for the soccer scene in Seattle. And I have no doubt that when there's a big game, the Sounders are still going to get a bunch.
Portland Thorns Jersey Design Debate
01:05:09
Speaker
But if the question is, is the 50th anniversary a good chance to try and re-engage with a lot of this stuff? I think it is. I think it's a great opportunity to sort of reignite passions and get people back into the stadium and try a whole bunch of stuff.
01:05:23
Speaker
I think it's smart of them to think of it that way too, thinking about building up to the 2026 World Cup. Like I do think that there's going to be real meaningful momentum for Seattle, Washington State soccer fans building up to that. So you have to have that in mind. I mean, in the same way, the rain have had a real bump around the World Cup and I hope they do again this year. I think you have to think of it that way too.
01:05:46
Speaker
Yeah. All right. So we're going to close on something that I think is maybe, uh, Susie's alley particularly, uh, it's from gritty city sounder and they want to know is $195 too much to pay for a soccer jersey. I'm asking for a friend of mine in Portland.
01:06:01
Speaker
Brother, it is too much to pay for that soccer jersey. I'll just leave it. If it's a tattoo shirt, then yes. I will say, actually, I think this is the first year that I have seen a true authentic jersey for the NWSL. We're very used to it on the sounder side. There's an authentic and there's a replica. All of the jerseys that Nike has sold in the NWSL have been replicas.
01:06:27
Speaker
So Portland has an authentic and a replica this year and the authentic is $195, which yes, it's too much for that jersey, but it is interesting that that is an option. Yeah, I didn't realize that. So are the players also essentially wearing replicas or are they wearing what would be deemed authentic?
01:06:48
Speaker
I think they have authentics. So they make authentic for the players, but they just don't make them for retail. Interesting. Well, that's, that is, I think that is a good sign. And I don't know, I'm sort of a two minds on this Jersey. I, I wouldn't wear this thing. I would be frankly shocked to see like my wife where this, or most people I know, but there is a part of me that appreciates them going for it.
01:07:18
Speaker
But maybe it's like, Aaron had an interesting take on the going for it. Do you want to share that take, Aaron? Yeah. I mean, I think that if you're going to go for it, you can fail, but I think you've got to fail in a little bit less than saying a boy than this. Like, I think the analogy was if my wife came to me and said, I want to paint her house, but I'm not going to tell you what color it is. You just got to trust me. And I said, okay.
01:07:45
Speaker
And I came home and the house was Fuchsia and had like banana yellow trim. That would be going for it, doing something different.
01:07:57
Speaker
but I don't think I would be happier than I would have been if it were like beige. And that's like the way that this is framed a lot of the time is, you know, this is better than being safe and boring, but it's not, I don't think it is. Like I think that you can go for it, but you gotta be sure that it's gonna hit or at least have a decent chance of hitting or at least hitting with at least not becoming like a meme for how bad it is.
01:08:24
Speaker
It, it does, it's a little Simpson's car. Uh, like it, it may be pushing that too far at the same time. I think I would rather miss like this than like the, the San Diego wave, which have like the best colors. Right. Like they should, I know that they're, they really do disappoint me, but I'm also 40 years old. It's entirely possible that this is for like people that are a lot younger than me who have moved into like the.
01:08:53
Speaker
you know, Ed Hardy, Sailor Jerry phase of fashion that, I mean, it, like, it happens, right? Like my parents, and a lot of that stuff from that era is cool. And it's like funny to see kids wearing that stuff. But like, if, if I see Ed Hardy, when I go to the mall, I'm going to be a little upset about it, but it's not, you know, it's not for me. They're not trying to sell it to me this time. So.
01:09:17
Speaker
Who's the designer that makes like all the big like unicorn and Lisa Frank? Yeah, Lisa Frank. That's what we need is we need a Lisa Frank ask Jersey when I was in my 20s when like my early mid 20s when Lisa Frank sort of have like an ironic ish moment. I had like Lisa Frank stickers and stuff that I put on stuff and the timing seems about right. Yeah, that's a circle back around. I mean, I know like
01:09:48
Speaker
neons and bright colors and like that sort of 80s and 90s aesthetic is seemingly coming back around so I will give I will also I'll note this about the the whole kit for the thorns uh like there aren't like neat details in the shorts the socks are great the shorts and the socks I think are both great and
01:10:13
Speaker
I guess I'm reluctant to just totally trash it because I find it hilarious. I think all the jokes about it are hilarious. There's total Twitter threads of making fun of this thing. I think those are all legit.
01:10:34
Speaker
I guess we're all ended is I really like I would never say this about almost any other Jersey, but this is so out there. I really, really hope that the thorns and Nike went to the players and said, Hey, this is what we want to do. It's out there, but we also don't want to make you on cause it's so out there. It might actually make you feel uncomfortable.
01:10:57
Speaker
Are you like, how do you feel about this? And if the players were on board, great, but I hope they had that opportunity because I feel like this is sort of like assuming. That the players are going to be on board with it. And it's really, I mean, it's really out there. If you haven't seen it, I would just Google, I'm not even going to try to describe it other than to say it's like, it is literally a tattoo shirt. Uh, and.
01:11:22
Speaker
I don't, yeah, I, I, I guess I just, I, I, I do appreciate, I, I, I like that Nike seemed to have at least put some resources into this. Yeah. Yeah. There's been a bit lot of just like very stale and WSL jerseys this year with a promise that they're going to have a lot more customization next year, but Portland got it this year. Maybe that's because they are the home of Nike.
01:11:44
Speaker
Right. They always always seems to work out for them. But anyway, well, that's that's our show. So Susie, Erin, thank you. It's been great. We're going to I think we're going to be getting a lot more Susie this year. That's that's all right. That's our plan. Yeah. And and once maybe we'll even talk rain. I don't know. But you guys are still doing your rain show, right?
01:12:10
Speaker
little hiatus, but hopefully we bring it back for the season. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Well, then in that case, we'll, we'll, we'll just accordingly, but, um, on that note, uh, thank you to our sponsors, uh, football wines and Watson's counter. Uh, I am Jeremiah Shan signing off for Susie rants and Aaron Campo. This is no Sadi at this. And remember, you will never yet alone.
01:12:36
Speaker
Green Douglas spur where the water's cut through. Mountain wild mountains and tangents you flew. Canadian northwest to the ocean so blue. It's Roll On, Columbia Roll On. Roll On, Columbia Roll On. Roll On, Columbia Roll On. Your power is turning our darkness to dawn. Roll On, Columbia Roll On.
01:13:29
Speaker
We love you. Let's win another one!