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The Calm Before Camp
38 Plays11 days ago
The quiet days are almost over.
With Packers training camp just around the corner, Mike and Joe take one last look at the roster before the pads come on. They break down the Devonte Wyatt extension, discuss the biggest position battles, spotlight players to watch, and share the storylines that could define Green Bay's 2026 season.
Plus, they look back on an exciting offseason for OPE and preview what's ahead as the show shifts its full focus back to Packers football.
🧀 Devonte Wyatt extension
🏈 Biggest training camp battles
👀 Players under the microscope
📋 Early roster predictions
🎙️ Looking ahead to another Packers season
Football is almost back. Let's enjoy the calm while it lasts.
#Packers #GoPackGo #GreenBayPackers #NFL #NFLTrainingCamp #Cheesehead #OPE
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Transcript
Intro
Green Bay Packers Training Camp Talk
00:00:55
Speaker
Aloha and welcome back to your regularly scheduled programming of Ohana Packers Edition. We are shifting gears, getting back into the regular flow of things as the Packers approach training camp. So I'm going to jump back into the pilot seat until Joe sees fit that he needs to bump me out of it because this this episode goes off the rails or not. But Joe, we're back.
00:01:18
Speaker
Mostly to usual, the Packers are on the eve of training camp, and as you noted, things have been all quiet. um ah Yes, you know we'll talk about the Devontae Wyatt extension, we'll expand upon my impromptu TikTok video about that, but otherwise... um There really hasn't been anything else that's happened between our last episode and the start of training camp. So thoughts going into this, going into the 2026 training camp for you.
00:01:49
Speaker
Well, like I said before we started recording that it's it's kind of weird because it seemed like every year the Packers would, two days before start of training camp, would...
00:02:04
Speaker
like make some weird transaction where they would cut some random guy from the roster and then they would bring in some another random guy just to shake things up. Kind like when they talk about the You punish one right off the bat just to show the rest of them that this is what you're capable of.
00:02:28
Speaker
That's kind of what the the the process is with with the Packers in years past. But here we are recording two days out from Mike and I are trying to figure this. It's the 28th that they start camp, so they should be starting to show up tomorrow, which is the 27th, because they show up and they do all their ah pre-camp testing, physicals, stuff like that, and then they'll go into camp the next day.
00:02:59
Speaker
um And out like Mike said, outside of the Wyatt extension, were we're kind of all quiet on the cheesehead front. So, yeah, I mean, it's it's that time of year again. Somebody posted on on the Elon machine that, you know, this is like the last Sunday without football for until next
Rumors and Trade Talks
00:03:22
Speaker
year. So, you know, it's at it's that time. and It's crazy how fast this year has gone, though.
00:03:29
Speaker
Yep, it is. And like you mentioned, you know, they tend to add or subtract someone. I do not believe that's going to be, you know, there was the rumor about a week or a week and a half ago that possibly it would be Jadavian Clowney.
00:03:41
Speaker
The Packers have never made that kind of move when it gets disclosed that far ahead of time. You know, like, it's more like... um Not necessarily um always level of player, but it's more like the Peppers move where it just came out of not just left field. It came out of left field from the stadium two states over kind of thing. So, you know, they might sign Clowney at some point, but I don't think it'll be the next move because they they don't.
00:04:06
Speaker
publicly telegraph those kind of things you know what i mean like the the only thing they publicly will telegraph is when they're expected to extend the player and even then that's you know it can be a little more hit and miss than um they let on but yeah we'll see where um it goes i'm kind of Curious that if he doesn't get signed before the regular season, if he could end up as like a practice squad signing. um i don't know how the rules are anymore. I know they can sign veterans and that to the practice squad, but I wonder if that may be the case where they sign them to the practice squad and just roll with the guys they have for the moment just to see, you know, what the possibilities are
00:04:52
Speaker
And then that way he can slow roll into the system and that I did see that it was kind of interesting that Josh Sweat ended up on the PUP list in Arizona. So that could be a whole reason why that, I know you kind of speculated that the trades kind of tail, trade talk kind of tailed off after the Josh Jacobs situation, but I wonder if it's that something came up in, med records because it's kind of weird that you just all of a sudden end up on the pup list.
00:05:25
Speaker
Yeah, very odd. And, you know, like, um it's not like some kind of offseason training thing because those guys usually end up on the NFI, non-football injury list, even though you're training for the football season, they NFI those guys because you did.
00:05:40
Speaker
I think it's in the fine print that it's like you only go on PUP if it's something that's deemed from the previous season kind of or like a career issue, not like, a oh, I hurt my back. lifting weights for the the upcoming season and stuff so yeah like you said very curious timing to me it does make you i agree with you it does make you wonder like if there are just rum you know trade talks continuing to grumble and stuff um i think what it's shown is that The league agrees with, you know, what was reported about, you know, whether it was Green Bay or the Eagles that like they were the two at the head of the table in trade talks for sweat. And they both kind of told Arizona to stick it in terms of what Arizona was looking for in a trade.
Packers Training Camp Focus and Defensive Strategy
00:06:24
Speaker
And like.
00:06:26
Speaker
On one hand, sure, you're Arizona, they're the one with the commodity. they set the term you know They have some measure of setting the terms. But at the same time, every team in the league is like, you're on the road to nowhere. The Cardinals, that is. You're on the road to nowhere. They don't want to be on the road to nowhere paying buku bucks to a guy who's you know only going to be in his 30s by the time they're really seriously ready to conti contend and stuff. So...
00:06:53
Speaker
um 31 teams basically called Arizona's bluff and said, all right, cool, like, play it out. And yeah, it it it'll just be really interesting. Yeah. They just gave Brissette one-year extension with the Rays. I just saw that today, too. So i' I'm really – I have no clue what the plans are down there.
00:07:18
Speaker
Yep, but it is... This is not a Packers podcast. This is a this is a or I'm sorry. This is a Packers podcast. This is not a Cardinals podcast. So we will speculate now only on the players who are currently on the Green Bay Packers. And...
00:07:35
Speaker
As I was about to say, like Joe said, no, this is what Joe and I were discussing prior to pressing record on this episode. We're going to just go into the hot items that the Packers are looking to iron out as training camp goes along. um You know, we we touched on some of those on our previous episode, but um I think we'll go a little more in depth in terms of um Basically, the lines of scrimmage are going to be the hot spot. Both sides of the line of scrimmage are going to be the hot spots for the Packers. um Linebacker has some ironing out, running back.
00:08:08
Speaker
It kind of is funny that on both sides of the ball, it's offensive, defensive line, linebacker, and running back. are the two like or the four position rooms and they're kind of like they're um mirror images um on opposite sides of the ball but those are for the position groups that have some of the biggest uh question marks going into camp whether at the starting positions or at the heavy rotation you know secondary um contributor spots and um and then obviously the other big one is cornerback because
00:08:42
Speaker
It'll just be really interesting to see who the top four is and how long that shifts as the season moves along. so Grand Inquisitor, where would you like to start?
00:08:54
Speaker
Well, let's just go ahead and do the Devontae Wyatt signing. That way we can just get ahead go ahead and get the defensive line off of there. Yeah. So the big news was, and Mike did throw out ah a quick TikTok video for the Packers signed Devontae Wyatt to three-year, $57 million dollars contract extension, $20 million dollars signing bonus. Yeah.
00:09:18
Speaker
I think you speculated in one of our group chats if this was an add-on to the fifth year, and I'm pretty sure it is. That's why they didn't give him a four-year contract. it It was just an add-on to the fifth-year option.
00:09:33
Speaker
um does give him more money, but this is another one of those deals that Similar to the Reed and the Watson one where it doesn't make him like the highest paid player in the league, but it gives him a good chunk of money and still is is basically it's rust ball magic.
00:09:54
Speaker
It still gives to the Packers room to do other things. I am kind of surprised that it was Wyatt before Tucker. So I'm wondering if Tucker's camp is really playing hardball with with rust ball. Pardon the pun on that one. um But, and and the reason I say that is because we know Tucker had the ACL injury and usually players can come back pretty good from the ACL. I mean, you have your good ones, you have your bad ones. Jordy Nelson obviously came back.
00:10:26
Speaker
and became comeback player of the year after his ACL injury. Rashawn Gary wasn't really the same after his injury. But when you, this is per a friend of shows, Rob Damoski's article for yeah ESPN and after the signing that, uh,
00:10:47
Speaker
Devontae suffered season-ending broken fibula and torn ligaments in his ankle. So that's a little bit more serious than just a plain ACL injury. So if if they really think Devontae's back, ah you know, Devontae is going to be coming back healthy and not have any issues,
00:11:10
Speaker
then, like I said, it makes you wonder if if Tucker's camp is really pushing that they want this big money contract for him because he's he he, relatively speaking, had the lesser of the injuries compared to what Devontae suffered.
Impact of New Defensive Coordinator
00:11:29
Speaker
So anyway, with Devontae, he's getting a good chunk of money. i do have to fact check a little bit of Rob's... ah article because it says the Packers expect Wyatt to be a key figure in new defensive coordinator Jonathan Gannon's scheme, which will switch to a 3-4 defensive front after playing a 4-3 in Wyatt's first four seasons. I'm sorry, Rob, but Wyatt was in a 3-4 early on in, I want to say, his rookie year because he was still under the Joe Barry system. because that was the same draft as Quay, and we know it was Joe Barry's system that Quay was drafted into.
00:12:09
Speaker
So he, and I think if my mind is working right, that ah Halfley was only in Green Bay for two seasons. Yep.
00:12:21
Speaker
So there's no way he played in the 4-3 for all four years of his his career. But that's that's ticky-tacky. But anyway, what are you thinking of the Devontae signing?
00:12:32
Speaker
Yeah. um I agree with you. It is brush ball magic because you sign this deal and he becomes the 18th, I think it was. when I think if I'm counting it correctly on over the cap, he's the 18th highest paid defensive tackle by um you know if you go by the the annual rate of his deal. And then that drops even further if it is a... um that That's just based on you know dividing 57 by 3. He's not making $20 million a year. He's 18th in terms of overall... um
00:13:05
Speaker
Overall earning over the course of that contract. And if it is those three years are tacked on to like turn his fifth year option into the first of a four year contract kind of thing, then that number drops even further because his fifth year option is like 12 million, a little 12 and change. So.
00:13:23
Speaker
And I still haven't seen either SpotTrack or OverTheCap list out which way that it's going. The other thing I kind of suppose, because Green Bay doesn't tend to go over, um you know, if you divide out um guaranteed money as a percentage of the new contract, they don't tend to pass 30%. But what I did wonder is if um they went a little higher because...
00:13:49
Speaker
to move money out of 2026 his 2026 cap it you um if i remember it correctly you can't make guaranteed money disappear when you do like contract extensions you can just shift around what kind of guaranteed money it is and that's how you lower a cap hit like this fifth year option one where the money is fully guaranteed is like you would have to absorb that 12 million into your new 20 million cap hit so that you could spread it out over the three years or whatever so um i i do think that is the one part where signing uh wyatt to this extension makes a little sense before the craft one because you can move around his 2026 cap hit to create that much more room that you can
00:14:36
Speaker
sign k crafts deal to to you know you you move some of Wyatt's cap hit out to extend crap you know to help extend k craft now and stuff so a whole bunch of deck chairs are sliding around on top and stuff so we'll see where it all lands as I said in the tick tock and we said in the previous episode the craft deal is still a when not if um ordeal and it's it's just a matter of when all sides are in agreement but they're At absolute worst, this is gonna be like um when Bakhtiari signed his in... um When Bakhtiari signed his in, like...
00:15:16
Speaker
October or something like that. And so they're they're not going to let this get too far. It's not going to get to where they're going to have to franchise tag Kraft next offseason. They're going to nip it in the butt far before then. but No, and I yeah believe the same thing. They're going have one. i just i With both of them coming off injuries, I figured it would have been a lot...
00:15:38
Speaker
safer to sign Kraft to his extension than Devontae with the injuries that he's got going on there. And then if you go by Rob's article, Devontae signed through the 2029 season. So this is a attack on. Oh, there you go then.
00:15:54
Speaker
I missed that part of it. To his fifth year option. So there you go. And then the other side of it too, you kind of alluded to it is um I do wonder where if the if Trey McBride hasn't signed his extension, if they would have gotten Kraft, but whoever signed first was going to kind of reset you know expectations for the rest of the market. So once McBride signed, it's like, okay, that sets a new line of demarcation for Kraft's camp to shoot for kind of thing. So it'll be really interesting to see how it plays out, but they're going to get it done. But...
00:16:33
Speaker
Like you said, we'll use the Wyatt contract to roll into our defensive line preview. So as you noted, Wyatt's going to be one of the cornerstones of the Packers defensive front going into the 2026 season under Gannon's system.
00:16:50
Speaker
We can hem and haw over what kind of front they're going to be in. Let me just say... The moment that they need to be in sub-package... It doesn't matter if their base is a 3-4 or 4-3... Because they're not going to play... Either one of those against um sub-package... Requiring um offensive... um Offensive... Personnel packages... So... Overall what they line up in base is... Kind of a moot point in my opinion... It's it's whatever... But... um What you would like... And you're they're going to need to see because...
00:17:22
Speaker
um Parsons is, you know, he's he's been pretty steady on it that he's going to start the season on Pup, so he's going miss the first four games at minimum. And, um you know, for all his faults as a you consistent pass rusher, you youd are down your other starting defensive end in Rashawn Gary. um And then it's a...
00:17:42
Speaker
Bunch of question marks at defensive tackle because Wyatt's coming off the injury. Brinson flashed at times, but he was still a rookie who needs to improve. McClellan is a touted prospect, but he's a rookie this season.
00:17:56
Speaker
And, you know, I know they signed Hargrave, but he's another year older. How much are you really going to expect to get out of him this season? So lot of questions in the room. um and And Lucas, can he...
00:18:08
Speaker
be the guy that he was looking to be, you know, September, October of last season before he broke his foot. So a lot of questions. well but Go by what I've seen on Twitter yeah on the trajectory of Trey Hendrickson, because if you go through, but if this person did their stuff right, and im I'm not sure where it's at, I should have pulled it up before this.
00:18:35
Speaker
Lucas' stats are very similar to what Hendrickson's was going into year four. So, you know, if you're going by that, then, you know, he could have this big ah breakout this season.
Defensive Setup and Player Evaluations
00:18:50
Speaker
But you also forgot big Sleepy, Nazir.
00:18:56
Speaker
ah i still do have hopes for Jonathan Ford. um if they do run a 3-4 more than a four three i think having a big beefy guy like jonathan ford 6-5 338 would help out a lot as a nose tackle i'm still not sold completely on them being a true 3-4 system just because looking at it they don't have the personnel to be a true three four system
00:19:29
Speaker
They really don't have a true nose tackle other than, you know, like I said, Jonathan Ford's a big beefy guy ah Brinson is biggish guy. Stackhouse is your other one that is above the 310 mark.
00:19:45
Speaker
ah So they really don't have that big, beefy nose tackle that you would prefer in ah in a system. But they have a lot of guys that would be perfect for interior defensive tackles for a 4-3.
00:20:01
Speaker
So I'm still not... And it kind of would be a little bit weird that they signed Javon Hargrave. to with Jonathan Gannon when knowing that Gannon's 4-3 was the system that Hargrave was better in in Philadelphia.
00:20:20
Speaker
But there there are a lot of hopes and dreams for it. And let's kind of break down the defensive tackles separate from the edges because edge is going to be a completely different beast. So just looking at the defensive tackles, if they go for a 3-4, you've got to figure Brooks...
00:20:35
Speaker
you got to figure brooks ah Hargrave and Wyatt are your guys that are going to mainly rotate in at end.
00:20:50
Speaker
Brinson, Ford, and Stackhouse are your big beefy guys that you're going to put in as nose tackle. So right now... Doesn't look great, but, well, and I forgot McClellan. McClellan's probably going to be more of an in than a nose tackle, but probably could be a nose tackle because, relatively speaking, he's a little bit undersized compared to the other guys. He's 6'3", 313. The other guys are all and 320 plus. So...
00:21:19
Speaker
and three twenty plus so I would think McClellan could be a little bit more of an in than a tackle, but I don't know. Right now, there's a lot of question marks. These are just guys that are currently on the roster. You got Jordan Riley that who knows if he's going to be back or not because they have, as far as I know, they still haven't decided on their pup lists and and things like that. That'll probably get figured out tomorrow.
00:21:54
Speaker
So that's probably the biggest question mark on the defense right now is that defensive tackle room outside of the edge part of it. Yeah, and it's really interesting because, like, I know some people like, well, if they play 3-4, they're going to need more defensive tackles, blah, blah, blah, all that kind of stuff. But as I kind of pointed out earlier in the episode, it's like, how much three four are you really expecting to play this season? Like, who who are the teams that are really going to – force you to play base out of this thing and then on top of it on the opposite to kind of go back on you on that is kind of on the opposite end even if they don't play you know if they play in the nickel and all that who are going to be the guys that you're going to rely on right the right down linemen and that's the thing is like nickel yeah and like you said the thing is is um three four you almost need more specialized guys because you do need like ah the the stocky nose tackle
00:22:53
Speaker
And I actually think Brinson is more of a 5-tech in a 3-4 because he's got the long arms. He's um he's got the height. yeah he's kind of like He's kind of built like Aaron Smith was for the Steelers.
00:23:04
Speaker
um And then like McClellan, like you said, he's kind of in between where... like he's not as stocky as some of the big like nose tackles of years past have been but then you know kenny clark at his best years was a nose a 6-3 3-14 nose tackle in um capers and um barry and stuff's uh three four base defenses so teach you know we they'll cross that bridge when they get to it um but Yeah, I think what you kind of saw last year was, you know, they like you kind of noted to earlier is like um they kept Stackhouse around in the hopes that he could be a contributor. But it's like if you're a guy who can't contribute as a pass rusher, but you're not good enough as a run stopper to demand the double team, what are you really doing on this? You know, what are how are you really helping this roster? um
00:24:01
Speaker
And it's going to, you know, the best. bulk of the improvement from this group is going to be is why it going to be the guy he was before his injury last year how much does hargrave still have in the tank and what kind of leaps are brooks and mcclellan or not or are brooks and brinson gonna take um and then the the wild card in there is can mcclellan give you 10 snap 10 solid to good snaps a game because if Four of those five are yeses.
00:24:33
Speaker
It'll be a good defense attacker rotation. And you just backfill the last position or two with one of, you know, one of um Ford, Stackhouse. Like you said, Riley is probably starting the season on Pup because he blew his knee out like later than Parsons did. So it's it's almost a guarantee he's starting the season on IR. So... um Was it a knee for him?
00:24:58
Speaker
I thought it was. i thought it was his ACL. Or... For some reason, Achilles stuck in my mind. It was something bad. Like that. Yeah.
00:25:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:11
Speaker
I don't remember.
00:25:15
Speaker
and know it was a lower body injury, but for some reason, Achilles is sticking in my mind. Oh, yeah, you're right. It was an Achilles injury. So, yeah, even more so. it's it He's going to be on POP. Like, this there's there's no ifs, ads, or buts about he's starting the season on POP.
00:25:32
Speaker
um So... yeah like it'll be really interesting to see what they've got in that defensive tackle room but like i said the guys that really are gonna matter this season are wyatt hargrave who are probably gonna be your two like primary starters whether you they're they're either gonna be two of the three starters in the three four or you're gonna if you're in a four three or a nickel dime sub package group They're going to be your two starting defensive tackles. And then behind them, some combination of Brooks and Brinson. And then they're going to give McClellan as many bites at the apple as they can early and often. Because you got to, you know, it's that whole, it might be only 5 to 10 snaps. But you want those to be good 5 to 10 really good snaps by the end of the season. Like...
00:26:23
Speaker
yeah You can re can mention Kenny Clark ad nauseum, but Kenny Clark's first big play really wasn't until he got that big tackle for loss in the playoffs. and you know That's what it is, is like rookie defensive tackles tend to suck.
00:26:37
Speaker
Like that's just kind of the the general trend because there is a physical athletic uptick that's hard to simulate in practice when you jump from college to the NFL. And they're going up against guys that have been in the league for years and know how to – you know legally get away with things that you might not have been able to in the college ranks.
00:27:01
Speaker
Yep. You're no longer the big man on campus. So that up so uptick, it'll be really interesting to see how McClellan is able to handle it. But it's not the good thing is that they are not solely relying on him to buttress the the room they they have come in with guys who are being accepted to expected to take a leap and um you know hargrave was a good off-season signing for the team so i i think the room is worlds better than where it was last season it still has question marks but it's a lot better situation than it was last season where it was kind of like
00:27:38
Speaker
Well, it wasn't a great war room with Kenny. And yeah, you do the Parsons trade over and over. But it's like, okay, it's Wyatt and a bunch of hopes. kind of like That's really how the defensive tackle room was looking going into last season. so um Anything else or you want to move on to the the the edge room?
Edge Rusher Strategies and Player Development
00:27:57
Speaker
we can slide in the edge room real quick i i think we've covered the defensive tackle because i'm looking at them right now and this is another if you wanted to put on your tinfoil hat and go into conspiracy mode with with olio joe over here this is where you can say that it still doesn't make sense that they're going to go into a ah three forward uh because you look at the guys that they currently have listed in their edge room all right, I'm gonna go through and list them all off. So if you if anybody wants to skip forward, skip forward like 10 seconds and you'll get to our points. But Brenton Cox, 6'4", 250.
00:28:38
Speaker
Danny den Dennis Sutton, 6'5", 256. six five to fifty six uh, Najalik Kelly, the kid, the UDFA from UCF, Mosby, 6'3", 250.
00:28:50
Speaker
six five two sixty three aaron mosby six three two fifty Colin Oliver, Micah
00:28:59
Speaker
baron sorrre six three two fifty six and lucas van ne six five two two seventy two what's the common factor that you see there they're all undersized edge rushers for a 3-4 defense.
00:29:16
Speaker
So the Packers have slowly... It's hard for me to believe that the Packers, they're for the longest time stuck with their 6'5", 270-plus edge rushers.
00:29:27
Speaker
Now all of a sudden they've switched, and that was in their three four Now of sudden they've went the complete opposite way to move to a a 4-3 style defense with these smaller, quicker edge rushers. And now we're gonna go back to a 3-4 automatically.
00:29:47
Speaker
Not with these small ass, well, and not small, but you know these these lighter ah edge rushers. And because the thing is, is with 3-4 edge rushers, you want a little bit more beef on them because they have to do the job of basically like two guys.
00:30:09
Speaker
Yep. Because you you're missing that one extra lineman for them to go after. so and that That's another thing in the conspiracy of I'm not fully sold on them being a complete 3-4 defense.
00:30:28
Speaker
Now, with that being said, I'm not as down on this edge-rushing group as a lot of people are. Are there a lot of names on here that are going to scare people? No, because they're all relatively young and and unproven guys. Micah Parsons is the outlier. He's the main guy. He's going to be the star.
00:30:47
Speaker
But when does he come back? And when he comes back, is he going to be on a pitch cow? Is he going to be able to go full bore? But Baron Sorrell and his limited snaps last year, he seemed to be flashing often and looked pretty good. Lucas Van Ness, before the foot injury, he was looking very, very good.
00:31:08
Speaker
Colin Oliver only really got the one game last year, and you can kind of question whether or not it was an actual game or if it was a you know basically the fourth preseason game before going into the ah playoffs. But he looked relatively good.
00:31:27
Speaker
Mosby is mainly going to be your special teams guy, so nothing... the it can And maybe it'll give you a little bit of a rotation and in the defense. Kelly, we don't know. he he was a preferred UDFA. They did bring him in prior on ah on a top 30 visit, so there's something there they like. Sutton is going to be the big one to talk about because he was always viewed as Packers-style pick.
00:32:00
Speaker
um you know and you know Obviously, being a rookie, we don't quite know what he's going to do in the league, but there are high hopes on him. And Brenton Cox has flashed a lot in his limited role ah snaps on defense. He did have a lot of injuries last year, so didn't get to quite see that out of him. But, again, I'm not quite – really, who are you going to get rid of out of this thing to bring in an older guy like – ah Jadeveon Clowney or somebody of that style, which one are you going to replace with? We don't know what Colin Oliver has, but do you risk cutting his athleticism you know and having somebody else pick him up? You're not getting rid of Sorrell. You're not getting rid of Sutton.
00:32:48
Speaker
You're not getting rid of Van Ness. You're not getting rid of Parsons for him. um You know, you could say Cox or Mosby, but really I would rather have the 26-year-old Cox than the 30-something Clowney at this point.
00:33:04
Speaker
So that's kind of where I'm setting that with the edge. I don't think it's as big a deal as a lot of other people do at this moment. I just think a lot of people are bored because there's not a lot of Packers news coming out right now. So they had to tear apart in certain aspects of the team.
00:33:21
Speaker
Yeah, so, I mean, if you, and the way you can kind of start to, like, if you really want to go big brain on, like, how does Clowney fit in, is, um, you you look at it just from a numbers standpoint. So, we just take Parsons off the board. He's starting the season on Pup. He said it, the team said it, like, it we just scratch him off for now so he doesn't count against the roster.
00:33:44
Speaker
The guys who are... The two guys, like you said, who are absolute... Or really the three who are stone-cold locks are Van Ness, Sorrell, and Dennis Sutton. Because they're not... They don't cut... You know, Groot doesn't cut rookies on contracts. You know, rookie draft picks. Unless they're like late round... You know, seventh round extra pick or whatever. Yeah, exactly.
00:34:08
Speaker
Oliver is a lottery ticket that, like you said, they... All reports, they like what they saw from him at the end of the season. And they need to see more of him. He's the one where I think he's going to make it. But they can fuzz it fudge it where you're like, what position is he actually playing? Especially if he comes through preseason and is like, oh, he's an absolute dynamite wrecker on special teams. like If he's starting on at least two of the special teams...
00:34:37
Speaker
Like, they're going to fudge what his position is and make him get on the roster no matter what kind of thing. Then it's like, okay, Cox, Mosby, Nigel Kelly...
00:34:50
Speaker
Are any of you showing a pulse? like you know um Mosby's kind of answered that, that he like you said, he is sort of just a special teams guy at this point. He's ah he's a special teams body kind of guy.
00:35:02
Speaker
Cox has flashed. Who knows what he is after the injury he suffered last season. I know he kind of came back later in the season, but I don't think he played too much down the stretch. And it wasn't really like a terrible, terrible injury. It was a high ankle sprain, so it was a lot more caution than, right it was it was an ankle injury I'm pretty sure of that kind of went into the groin a little bit, but I don't think it was like a, you know, it wasn't an ACL tear, it wasn't a a major thing like that.
00:35:32
Speaker
Yeah. And then, like you said, Nigel Kelly, it's like, you know, he has some fun tape. he's a he's He's a fun, you know, he fits, like you said, they're kind of going more towards the 250. I know he's over 260, but he's one of those kind of more edge bender types at um defensive end.
00:35:51
Speaker
But he's an undrafted free agent rookie. You know, he's not a first or second. He's not a day one or day two pick. So... There is a route for them to bring a veteran a more veteran body type in, but I agree with you that you know and the Packers, as they always do, if they had a preference, it would be one of these young guys, the light bulb coming on and taking a step forward. And um
00:36:14
Speaker
the one take that I've seen going around that I agree with is... I really do, I'm kind of excited to see what Gannon is going to do for that first month of the season when Parsons isn't there. Where, you know, how he's going to help these guys generate pass rush. Are we going to see a lot of Van Ness on the interior like he did to start the season? Granted, that was when you had your full complement of him, Parsons, and Gary. You know, you could shift all three of them around and stuff. And you also had Inaugbered last year too.
00:36:46
Speaker
So i'm really curious or if Van Ness is going to have to stay on the edge because of, you know, whatever options or if Wyatt is just really wrecking things on the interior. It's like, OK, like, well,
00:36:59
Speaker
we'll We'll just figure it out around him. whatever Whatever happens, if it's working the first month, I hope that Gannon isn't like, okay, Parsons is back. I can shelve all that stuff. that That's something that you want to see is the ingenuity. Honestly, go up after Parsons comes back because the more production you get out of the guys around him, the less... Parsons is going to get his numbers. like that's He is that special of a player that he's going to get his.
00:37:26
Speaker
But like... Help the guy get his. Don't don't make him have to like split double and triple teams to get his numbers kind of thing. like You can still run all the big brain, galaxy brain stuff with your cheat code player on the field. um That is something that I kind of didn't like from... from um Halfley and I'd liked a lot of stuff that half we did over his two seasons But there was a little too much time where it was like we're just going straight for man rush across because we have Micah Parsons and it's like you can be a little bit more And you know like that's why the whole oh my god
00:38:05
Speaker
they get some kind of massive play when parsons drops because it's like oh they did something different and now opposing offenses are like oh my god like now what so it's like yeah don't don't shelve the cool stuff when parsons comes back like it and like you said They have to protect the long-term investment and Parsons himself. So it's like, he's going to be on a pitch count. Just honestly like he was last year when he came to Green Bay because he came in with the back issue and stuff. So it's like, don't make him come back off of Pup and have to shoulder the entire load of the pass rush. It's like...
00:38:43
Speaker
Help him by help by doing all the crazy stuff. like don't Don't just be... Oh, 1 is back on the field. we can just coast into the you know we can coast on vanilla. like Keep running the rocky road and the cherry Garcia and all that kind of stuff. like like Dig deep into the playbook and keep using it. um so And I think that's why them these young guys working with Micah in the offseason has been a real plus, is because they can learn from, you know, obviously a very, very talented star in the NFL, and they can also learn, you know, they can learn his skill set, but they can also learn, okay if Micah's doing this,
00:39:33
Speaker
then I can go out and do this. you know they They can learn their own spot in the system, even though they don't quite have the full system because you know we haven't really had actual practices implementing Gannon's system.
00:39:51
Speaker
But they can know, okay, well if Micah's over there and I'm over here, I can do this, this, this, and this. But if Micah's on my side, then I have to do this, this, this, and this.
00:40:03
Speaker
So they they're getting an idea of what it's gonna be like when it comes time to be in a game situation with Micah.
00:40:15
Speaker
Yep, yep, completely agree. So, um, I've got a lot of hopes for this unit, but like you said, we're going to have our eye on him. We're going to have our eye on this whole defensive line room going into the first couple of preseason games.
Veteran Free Agents and Defensive Backfield Analysis
00:40:29
Speaker
and that's the thing. I don't expect Lucas to play a lot. I do think Sorrel is going to play a bunch though. Like I, uh,
00:40:37
Speaker
Who do you think is going to start opposite? I think it's going to be Sorel or Cox. I'm really curious because neither of them, like, Cox's experience, quote-unquote, experience in the league doesn't really matter because he's not playing in a system he's played in before.
00:40:52
Speaker
And Sorrel has the higher ceiling, I think. So I do think it'll be between those two to start. But you also want both of them playing well to open the season because you need both of them fieldable so that you can move Lucas around to the interior in sub-package so that he can rush from the inside next to Wyatt and stuff. So it they're going to need that variety.
00:41:15
Speaker
I think it's going to depend on what front they're actually going to see. If they're going to see the 3-4 front to start the season, then I think it's going to be Lucas and I think it's going to be Baron just because of the body types and stuff like that.
00:41:38
Speaker
If it's more of a four three front, I think you're going to see a little bit more of maybe a Brenton out there starting opposite Lucas.
00:41:49
Speaker
um I mean, i understand why people are throwing out the clowny thing because you don't know what that opposite of Lucas is going to be. But they've got enough young guys here that have shown flashes that do you really want to stunt the growth of your younger guys by bringing in that older veteran?
00:42:12
Speaker
I know ah they're going to be rotating the guy in and out, but you've got to see what you have behind Micah and Lucas. Because let's face it, Lucas is...
00:42:24
Speaker
This is his year four. They did pick up his fifth year option. So he's only got two more guaranteed years in the system.
00:42:36
Speaker
You've got to be able to know what you have behind him. Is Terrell going to sink or swim? Is Oliver going to do, so you know, are they going to put him as a linebacker? Are they going to put him as an edge?
00:42:47
Speaker
you know what's sutton gonna do this is cox's last year in the system what's he gonna do you know is he gonna go out like an inigbari where you know he's he's gonna put up a little bit of numbers and then just take the next big con next contract that he can get with another team so i i do think that it it's possibly going to be a van ness or rel tandem to start the season
00:43:18
Speaker
Yeah, so... Like I said, this position group's gonna have our eye on it, but I'm really, you know, really excited to see what they're able to do. And as you noted,
00:43:30
Speaker
no one else has signed clowny at this point if all these guys don't like you know it's kind of the same as the defensive tackle room at least there is some kind of answer in the free agent market where it's like you can find some vets out there so obviously the preference is sorel takes a leap um Oliver is able to show you he does belong in the NFL. um Cox is a steady contributor, you know, really for the first time in his career. If those things, you know, if like I said, if two of those three come to fruition, this room looks way better. And then obviously you're getting Parsons back, you know, a month into the season. So.
00:44:08
Speaker
But if you get one or none of those things, it's like, oh, OK, better go better go ah call Jadeveon and say, like hey, you want to come to Green Bay and see what it's like out here? so um Well, it's not even like you said.
00:44:21
Speaker
Jadeveon is not even the only one out there at the moment. Right. You know you got Hassan Redick that's out there. Joey Bosa, even though I'm not really wanting him on the team, could be somebody that they could pick up. Leonard Floyd is about the same age as Jadeveon, could be out there.
00:44:39
Speaker
Uh, Belal Nichols was in Arizona last year. He could be a pickup. Old man Von Miller's still out there. Tyquan Lewis.
00:44:49
Speaker
You know, there there are guys out there. Hell, you could even go and pick up Marcus Davenport, who Packer fans know very well because of the him being in Detroit, but also because he's the guy of the Saints traded up for and they got the extra draft pick out of.
00:45:07
Speaker
um There are guys out there that they could theoretically pick up to be a veteran, just pure pass rusher. So it's not it's not like when they start the season, there's not a chance that if Sorrell sinks or one of these other guys sinks, they they don't have options to pick up. And then you got look at there's always going to be somebody that gets released at the end of cut down.
00:45:37
Speaker
Yep. Completely agree. So, um yeah, like I said, we're just trying to give you guys um different avenues to approach this training camp from. um Want to just stay on the defensive side of the ball and move back off the line of scrimmage?
00:45:53
Speaker
Yeah, we'll just go ahead and finish out defense because I think we've pretty well touched on the whole linebacker situation in last episode and previous episodes with the when we talked about the Isaiah McDuffie extension.
00:46:08
Speaker
So really there's nothing more that we can top on there. Obviously your starters are going to be Edge and Zaire. tyron's gotta take a leap you do have the two iowa guys and neiman and welch that are probably going to be more of your special teamers spot starters if need be mcduffie is going to be your backup with hopper and then you got tj quinn who was a premier a premium uh UDFA signing. Yeah. Yeah.
00:46:42
Speaker
So really there's not much more we can talk on that. The big question is going to be... And I don't think we need talk safety because safety is pretty well established what's going on there. They do have a couple of guys in there that could be interesting and make Catan Oladapo's life a little bit difficult. But there's there's not much more that we can talk in there. But yeah, we can talk corner and finish out the defense.
00:47:08
Speaker
Yeah. So... All things being equal, if if the Packers really could choose how they want this to play out, I would have to, you know, I can't speak for them, but obviously they want Cissé to be a starter.
00:47:23
Speaker
But if you're looking totally towards the future, the outcome you want is Domani Jackson comes in and steals the other starting spot too. Because then it's like, okay, we can just continue to move on from everyone in this corner, every every returning player in this cornerback room moving forward. You don't have to like play tackling roulette with ah with Valentine who... has been a really solid to really good cover guy but couldn't tackle um he couldn't tackle a stack of hay if it came and landed on him and just totally done with the nixon experiment at this point like um well here's the question to throw out to you who's starting week one it's probably nixon and sisei
00:48:10
Speaker
like You think so? I was thinking the other way. I think it was going to be Nixon and St. Juiced. I think that they want to try to slow roll Cissé unless Cissé comes out in preseason and just absolutely dominates everything.
00:48:26
Speaker
Yeah, like part of the Cissé thing is that's me... um I don't want say not necessarily projecting, but you know, like wish casting a little bit because that's your ideal is like your top pick is able to come in and secure a starting spot off the bat. That's, you know, what that's what you're always hoping for. And especially at a position where not that it's easy, but in terms of like translating play from college to the NFL corner is one of them where it's like, yes, you need to learn the nuances of route combos and all that kind of stuff. But
00:49:01
Speaker
um There isn't a huge physical leap you need to make. It's like, if you can run with guys, you can run with guys kind of thing. So um that's sort of where I want... And I'm still not sold on exactly what they signed Saint-Juiced for, whether it was primarily for his special teams prowess or if they really expect him to be a contributor at corner.
00:49:24
Speaker
I can see it. I can definitely see it. And like you said... On one hand, yes, you want to see Cissé, your top pick, contribute early. But the Packers are also notorious for bringing guys along at a...
00:49:38
Speaker
and a um i don't want to say slow pace, but a measured pace to make sure, like, he's not going to just blow a coverage every other or every third or fourth snap kind of thing. Like, that that is the fear, is, like, you call student body left coverage and he's, you know you got 10 guys rolling coverage one way and your rookie is the one guy rolling it the wrong way kind of thing. So...
00:50:02
Speaker
I agree. like i can see it, but I am wishcasting a little that Cissé is starting week one. But hey, if we're going to go that route, we'll so I'll split the difference with you, Cissé, and St. Juice. Like I said, I am just that over the Nixon experiment because like... Oh, I am yeah completely... But I know exactly where you're coming from, and I do agree with some of the um the thought... A lot of the thought process you're you're coming to your... um Potential starting duo.
00:50:33
Speaker
But if you go by what a lot of people have said about St. Juice based off of his PFF grades, you know, he was highly ranked last year with the Chargers. So, you know, do they believe that's the type of guy that they just signed?
00:50:50
Speaker
Or do they did they give him that money just to be a core special teamer? You know, i don't think that's possible. I think they signed him to be... the guy opposite Nixon until they can fully believe Cissé is going to take over or Damani Jackson. Who knows?
00:51:11
Speaker
It's going to be one of those things where they do slow roll him unless they have to. Even with Jair, they pretty well slow rolled him until they absolutely had to start him out there.
00:51:23
Speaker
Um, Unless, again, like one of Cissé or Jackson goes out and just completely dominates everything in in the preseason.
00:51:36
Speaker
You know, if they come out of preseason and Cissé's got five pass breakups and three interceptions with, you know, ten tackles, are you going to really say that he can't be starting? Right, is exactly.
00:51:53
Speaker
So, yeah, I agree with you. Like, it it's going to play out the way it's going to play out. But um like I said, I've got my hopes on where it'll go. But you're probably right that they go with the um the the the um the more veteran players to kind of...
00:52:14
Speaker
And I completely agree with you with the Nixon thing. I kind of wish that they would have shipped him off to Miami with Halfley, but, you know, they didn't.
00:52:26
Speaker
I do kind of hope he does hold out and Cissé just fucking goes off and then they can say, well, you know, you can hold out for as long as you want. We don't need you. Yeah. and And go from there. But, you know, i i had and just looking at this, I've never really done a deep dive into nixon But he's 200 pounds. That goes way outside of what the Packers norms are for a ah corner.
00:52:56
Speaker
So, well, kind of. five ten is like borderline for them. And so, yeah, whatever. But other than that, I agree. I've always liked Carrington, but he just can't tackle to save his life. But he's still, you know, only 24 years old.
00:53:17
Speaker
saint juice i like i said i don't think they gave him the money just to and they didn't give him a ton of money but i don't see them giving him a contract just to be a core special teamer it wasn't like you said it wasn't just a vet minimum like for a guy to only be a special teams guy like yeah they there was some buttressing duty they expected out of him in some degree so i i agree with you there um Then you got Haddon, who's probably going to end up on the Pup. Yeah. But they they really do like him.
00:53:51
Speaker
Devonshire, I don't know too much on. We did kind of talk about him and Marlon Jones the last time. You know, those two could be wild cards for
Offensive Line Concerns and Player Development
00:54:00
Speaker
the roster. Jalen Simpson, I think he's the one that nobody can decide whether he's going to be a corner or if he's going to be a safety. Right.
00:54:08
Speaker
And then you got Shamar bar Bartholomew, who... You know, he's he's definitely a long shot for the roster unless, again, he goes off and just has like a over a amazing preseason.
00:54:29
Speaker
Yep. So we'll we'll have to see on that one. Yeah.
00:54:35
Speaker
I guess that, like you said, it puts a ball on the defensive side of the ball, um unless there's any other position. But, no, that's all of them. I realize that it's all of them. yeah that's i mean he talks Like I said, safety is pretty well set. We know it's going to be a McKinney, Williams, and Bullard with Catan probably as the backup there. Yeah.
00:55:00
Speaker
We've already really talked to linebackers last episode. yeah, yeah that's pretty well all the defense. All right. And um we'll just move to the other line of scrimmage and offensive line. So, it's just question marks across this whole starting front. um some Some bigger than others.
00:55:22
Speaker
To me, one of the ones that's not getting talked up enough is how long into the season does it take Zach Tom to be Zach Tom? I... think the reports are he's gonna start, he's gonna be able he's gonna be ready for week one, but it is just one to keep an eye on because patellar tendon um operations tend to be ones that have lingering effects long term for guys where they they can come back pretty good, but they're not necessarily as good as they were pre-injury, so that'll be one that I'm keeping my eye on is how long...
00:55:57
Speaker
Will it take for Zack Tom to look like Zack Tom or... Does it turn into a, oh no, is he ever going to be that Zach Tom again kind thing? Or does he even start the season? Does he end up on Pup to start the season? Right. Like you said, we'll find out around the time when this episode is released. So unfortunately, we can't see into the future. We're just extrapolating a little bit.
00:56:18
Speaker
And if I could see in the future, wouldn't be to see that. It'd be to see the freaking lotto numbers. yeah You and me both. um Opposite tackle position. What kind of play are you getting out of Jordan Morgan?
00:56:30
Speaker
At base value, you just got to be better than whatever the hell Rasheed Walker was doing in the second half of that playoff game. Like, I know that bar is not very high off the ground, but you just have to be not the worst possible option.
00:56:48
Speaker
in the in you know out of 32 starters you have to be better than that at left tackle if he can even if that can be his floor and he just makes incremental progress through the season that's an absolute win for the Packers at left tackle obviously they have a higher expect much higher expectations for Morgan they just need stability off the top at left tackle and then it can kind of go from there Banks is looking to prove that his rough play last season was due to the fact that he had like four injuries in the first month and a half of the season.
00:57:21
Speaker
I thought he did play better as the year went along, but it still wasn't great at the end. And they must be something, being that they restructured his contract and pretty much guaranteed he was going be on the roster for the next year or two. Yeah. So um it's a matter of like...
00:57:39
Speaker
You know, just playing on a not flat tire, you know, because i think I think the foot and the ankle injury were on the same leg. Or the... What did he have? A knee and an ankle or a foot? Whatever it was. He had two injuries and I think they were both to the same leg. So, you know, you would like to think that um it would be better moving forward.
00:58:00
Speaker
Going at center, it's kind of just a may the best man win, you know, between Ryan and um and Burton. Well, no, I'm going to ask you this because you know these guys a little bit better than I do.
00:58:14
Speaker
And, you know, obviously they're friends of show and all that. But JJ Leahy and and Jake the Lemon Chivank both absolutely hate Jacob Monk.
00:58:28
Speaker
And I don't get the hate on him. They they call him undersized, but he's really not. I mean, he's enlisted 308.
00:58:38
Speaker
That's pretty typical for a a center. You know, i've I can't say I've seen him in extended play because they've not really used him for much unless they absolutely had to.
00:58:55
Speaker
Why is it and a foregone conclusion that he couldn't possibly be the center of the future i just think it's a matter at this point it's a matter of he just doesn't have enough snaps like he can't get enough first team snaps at this point and it's honestly kind of on the packer like yes it's partly on him for not like seizing whatever opportunities got and been a dynamite player but i put this in the same bin as like the derek charade situation um the
00:59:28
Speaker
Wow, I can't do the charade situation because charade is completely... I put it in that sense where it's like you draft a guy for a certain spot and it's like the first thing you do is like let's play him at all these different spots. You know the charade story is like this guy was supposed to be your left tackle of the future and the first thing they do is like let's play him at guard, a position he had never played before.
00:59:50
Speaker
And they did that with Bulaga too. True. but and and and And I understand that there is like there's a way we do things, but it's like... And with Budlaga, there was some question of, like, is he going to stick at tackle in the NFL? Whereas with, like, Sherrod, it's like, that's a left that's ah that's an NFL tackle kind of thing and stuff.
01:00:11
Speaker
And i do wonder sometimes if there... preference for, um, for, um, if the Packers preference for, um, what's it called? Versatility hurts them in these spots where it's like,
01:00:29
Speaker
Instead of just saying, Jacob Monk, you're going to get all the center two snaps your whole time in Green Bay. And, you know, you might get some center one snaps when, you know, if Myers is out or whatever. Or, um you know, when um Jenkins holds holds in and stuff like that. But it's like, no, we're going to like 50-50 or worse snap. Because...
01:00:51
Speaker
Where I do agree with Shavinck and Leahy is like, you're wasting time with Monk at guard because he is small for a guard. It's kind of like when they tried to play tom Zach Tom at guard as a rookie where it was like, I like all the things he does, but he's just so light at guard for the NFL. And and that was a problem with Morgan too, is it's like...
01:01:11
Speaker
I know the arm length was such a question, but it was like... I just don't think he has enough sand in his pants to survive at guard. And you've seen it with Monk at guard where he just gets mauled at the point of attack when they try to play him there. Same with Morgan, same with even Zach Tom. And like... that I get it. Like, they have this thing that they like to play guys at multiple spots. But it's like, when you've got a guy like Monk who...
01:01:37
Speaker
Yeah, he played some guard at Duke, but that was kind of more out of necessity than it was out of like preference. It's like, just let these guys play the position that they're like built to and best suited for. I agree with you that he's fine build-wise for a center, but i at this point, my whole thing is like, has has the has the train left the station, like not even this offseason, but the offseason before where...
01:02:05
Speaker
I just think that you need to you need to prescribe as many snaps to both Ryan and um Burton to give them a fair shake at duking out for the center one spot. I just don't think Monk has enough snaps to make up time unless one of those guys gets injured. And even then, it's like...
01:02:22
Speaker
Are they going to bother giving Monk a shot or are they just going to, you know, give all those surplus snaps to the other guy who was in the competition? So it remains to be seen. i liked Monk as a center prospect, but my worry is like he's just out of time at this point. Like they've they've drafted over him and Ryan has been signed over him at his best position.
01:02:44
Speaker
And Ryan's not going back to guard at this point, in my opinion. Burton might. I was just going to throw this addendum to it. Is it a foregone conclusion that Burton is the center of the future?
01:03:01
Speaker
Or could he be the guard that replaces an Aaron Banks? I was going to say... that or Or if... Belton falters. Yeah, exactly. That that was...
01:03:13
Speaker
the the the hope and why you know as i say all those things and it's like well then why haven't they cut or traded monk the reason they haven't is because burton is big enough to play all three of the interior positions and he is good at all of them so that is monk's like i don't want to say last guess because he's still got two more years on his rookie contract but time is running out for him though what Burton's only got an inch and four pounds over Monk.
01:03:46
Speaker
Yeah, so, you know, these are all semantics. But, you know, it's not just weight. It is, like, strength two and stuff like that. And, you know, Monk. But that's the thing is, like, centers aren't supposed to anchor the same way a guard has to. And it was why, you know, one of the things we talked about in the middle of last season is it's like, okay, like,
01:04:06
Speaker
Morgan, he better be able to play tackle or he's going to have to learn how to play center because he can't play guard. And like and Morgan is listed at, what, like 315 or something like that?
01:04:17
Speaker
Oh, let's see what he's got here because I got the roster pulled up. Yeah, I know. I'm scrolling down. 6'5", So he's only got three pounds over Monk.
01:04:27
Speaker
But he gets rolled back the same way and stuff. So, yeah, you know... It's not just the straight like this guy is 320 so he can play on the interior kind of thing. because The only reason I keep throwing that out is because I do listen to j JJ and Jake's ah podcast.
01:04:48
Speaker
And they just keep talking about, well, he's too undersized, he's this, he's that. But really, like I said, when you start lining him up against some of these other people, he's not that... I mean, if you go against Anthony Belton, yeah, he's definitely undersized. Because Belton's 6'6", 3'36", listed.
01:05:07
Speaker
But then you look at, like, Brant Banks, who... The Packers seem to love because they've brought him back a number of times. 6'7", 306, so really the only thing he's got over Monk is the height.
01:05:19
Speaker
um Travis Glover, 6'6", 317, so he's got height on him. and a little bit of weight. And so it just i never and I've never really watched Monk to be able to say, yeah, this is the issue he's having.
01:05:35
Speaker
you know But when they keep saying, or like this guy, Carson Barnhart, they they have on the roster, you know might know him a little bit because he's a Michigan guy, 6'4", 306, and they've got him listed as a guard.
01:05:49
Speaker
So, you know, it just it it always when they start talking about how much they dislike monk i i'm i'm at a loss because it's like we we don't know what he's capable of because we've never seen him in extended time i think even last year with the preseason we didn't see a lot out of him because he was dealing with some kind of injury if i remember right yeah and that was a real bummer for him because he needed those snaps like he
01:06:20
Speaker
Like I said, especially when Jenkins was holding in, like he was the guy who would have benefited from that time at center the most. and Like I said I wouldn't give up on him because I really liked him coming out of Duke as a center, but I just worry that he's... like i said he's had a free agent extended over him and he's had a, a more highly touted draft pick come in over him and Burton. But there are a few, you know, sliding doors potential and it is, you know, what does Banks do and what does Belton do? Who is the last guy we need to talk about? Because if either of those guys falter, Burton is the guy who's first in the, who's first man up to replace either of those guys. So, um,
01:07:09
Speaker
Beltan, like I said, that's the last one um of a guy who they're... expecting hoping to make big gains in this offseason and i do think i find it hilarious that the team is still listing him as a tackle on the roster when he's you penciled in as your starting right guard if the season were to start tomorrow i know that none of those things really matter but all depend on what zach tom's that's true uh uh right physical comes out as tomorrow yep So yeah, and yeah again, like there are multiple deck chairs that have not been bolted forget bolted down. they're not even set There's not there' is not like a um a sunspot or like ah um like a dust trail of where they've been put in place for an extended period of time. kind of thing so um
01:08:04
Speaker
i'm really curious that you know we're not gonna know the whole off because zach's not gonna play in the preseason he's just not going to he might play like one series but he's not gonna play in the preseason um and it might might be one series but he might get some snaps just because knocked the rust off or something right right ah you know kind of like a uh Not so much that they did it with Bakhtiari, but except for during the week one that he finally did come back and play against the Bears. But something like, okay, we're we're going to throw you out there for this many snaps just to see how the knee holds up. Are you retaining any fluid in the knee? Are you having any pains? Are you having any of this?
01:08:48
Speaker
That way, if it comes week one, right it's not a guessing game with Zach Tomlin. They say, all right, well, you're setting out for this. We're going to roll with with Belton as our tackle.
01:09:00
Speaker
Yep. So, like you said, it's sort of like a dress rehearsal, which which is really what preseason is supposed to be. But, yeah. um Behind the starters, can't say that any of those guys really... and don't want to say they don't matter, but, um you know, whoever loses the center battle is going to be... That's the thing, though, is, like, you'd obviously prefer...
01:09:27
Speaker
I guess you'd prefer Burton to start because projecting forward, you want him to be your center of the future. But also, like I said, I don't think they're moving Ryan off center if he loses the starting center battle because last season, after 2024, he looked like he was doing better towards the back half of the season. 25, the first half was just a disaster class for Ryan at guard. And I, I just think that experiment is over with, um,
01:09:56
Speaker
And so, yeah, like ah like, do they kind of pencil in Ryan as the starter and, like, Burton would almost have to lap him to take the starting spot? I don't know.
01:10:08
Speaker
i see it similar to the Lane Taylor-Elton Jenkins situation. That's a good point. Yeah. they they brought They brought back Lane Taylor on like a two-year contract.
01:10:20
Speaker
He was the start de facto starter but ended up getting hurt, which slotted in Jenkins, and Jenkins just ran away with it. So I would have to think Ryan is the starter, and if anything happens to him, whether it's an injury or, you know, – Start sucking up, missing snaps, stuff like that.
01:10:42
Speaker
Then it would it would move to Burton and Burton could run away with it. And I guess, like, the the guy that I'm interested in... two guys that I'm interested in watching this season are um 2024 preseason darling Donovan Jennings. See if there's anything there or if he's getting cut this off because he just had a bad season last year.
01:11:07
Speaker
and the other one is... that oh Go ahead. I'll let you finish your second one. Okay. And then the other one is the guy that we never got to see play last year. The the one draft pick who they've like kept despite not seeing it all in John Williams, who you know they they obviously drafted for some kind of reason, and they've kept him around after spending the whole season on IR or whichever one it was. yeah know they kind of activate him late in the season, but he never played. um And so, yeah, I'm just curious to see what he does moving inside to guard this this season.
01:11:40
Speaker
Well, I was just going to say that that's the interesting part. There is no slash to it. He is just listed straight up as guard. But I think Jennings is going to have a hard time. um he is 26 right now, which isn't old.
01:11:55
Speaker
But they brought in a couple of premier ah UDFAs that... i know mafia has been really high on dylan wade and said he's probably the guy that is the one that's going to make the roster as a udfa but then you got geski out of illinois yes he's the other one yeah yeah yeah yeah well and then you've got dylan barrett from ah iowa state even though he's a cyclone you can't trust cyclones that people have talked up pretty good at the guard position And then, like I said, you've got Barnhart from Michigan.
01:12:30
Speaker
He's a one of ah a second, well, first year player, whatever you want to call him. So I think it's going to be hard for Jennings because he's going to have a lot of competition.
01:12:41
Speaker
Williams, I think. Williams, I think, could possibly pass through the waiver system and end up on the practice squad if they do cut him at the end of camp just because, there's like you said, there's nothing on him to say...
01:12:58
Speaker
we want this guy and I don't think teams are going to be lining up to pick him up without any kind of information on him. So yeah, that's going to be a tight battle for that, that backup guard position. And I, and I got to have a feeling that Jennings is is in the back of the line at the moment.
01:13:21
Speaker
Oh, the one guy that we totally forgot to mention. I actually, and you know, we were kind of talking about this belt to move aside. I don't think he does because we still have Kennard. I totally forgot we still have Kennard. We can't do that because Kennard is tight end too.
01:13:38
Speaker
He's not going to have a chance to play tight end. Or, I mean, tackle.
Running Back Position and Player Roles
01:13:44
Speaker
He's going to be tight end, too. Oh, you're right. You're right. Alas. But um anyone else you wanted to put the spotlight on at offensive line? Or...
01:13:54
Speaker
Um, there was, I was looking through a couple of them. Let me, I've been scrolling up and down the roster, just trying to Dalton Cooper is the other guy that I liked when they signed him out of Oklahoma state last season. So I'm kind of curious to see how he looks this year. second year in the system.
01:14:13
Speaker
Travis Glover is another one that gets talked bad about a lot. And I don't think he did as terrible as a lot of people. You know, it was pretty rough for him to go in as a first-year player from a small school and have to play any kind of meaningful snaps in the regular season the year before last.
01:14:35
Speaker
Much less go into the playoff game where no one was playing good and everyone was getting injured against the Eagles who were primed to give win the Super Bowl. So, yeah, like... Yeah, so... I don't have a real thing either way with him, but, yeah, I i was like...
01:14:51
Speaker
They weren't going to, you know, if if they happened to find, like, oh, my God, he actually was really good. Like, why were the other guys starting over him the whole season kind of thing? So, like, whoever they put in was going to be in a lose-lose situation no matter what in that scenario.
01:15:06
Speaker
And the interesting thing I see about him listed on the Packers side is they have him at 317. So I'm wondering if he dropped some weight. Because if I remember right, when he was drafted. Oh, he was, like, 330 coming out. He was a big boy coming out.
01:15:19
Speaker
Still is, obviously. drop somewhere Well, yeah, he's 6'6". There's no doubt about it. He's a big ol' bear. But, um you know, I'm not completely... Let's put it this way. If you're not getting any kind of meaningful snaps, it's hard to judge what kind of player you're going to be. Yeah.
01:15:43
Speaker
And I'm not going to poo-poo on anybody until we see meaningful snaps out of them. yeah The reason I can poo-poo guys like Nixon is because we've seen enough meaningful snaps out of them to know there's not much there. Lucas, Lucas, Luke Musgrave.
01:16:00
Speaker
I can poo-poo Luke Musgrave because we've seen enough meaningful snaps out of them to say... That guy... He's a one-trick pony. it's It's unfortunate, but he's a one-trick pony. and Unless he all of a sudden puts it all together, this camp, and stays healthy and really comes out and shows that he was worth that second-round pick. Like, he was starting his rookie year until injuries started taking, you know, lacerated kidney and and shit like that.
01:16:30
Speaker
So... But anyway, back to the tackle talk. I'm not going to give up on Glover until they finally cut him and don't bring him back on the practice squad. And because they must have saw something in him to draft him.
01:16:44
Speaker
And now this is year three for him. So for them to keep him around, they saw something. So I'm not completely against him. Yep. So...
01:16:56
Speaker
Our last position group to really go over is running back. I know we touched on it lightly because we did address the Jacobs situation, but um it's really the only other position that we didn't go deep into because we did really go deep into quarterback, receiver, and tight end in the last episode we did together. So running back. So...
01:17:15
Speaker
again as we noted at the end of our last episode together the Jacob situation as is right now he's your starting running back we will continue to cover that as you know new information comes out until then that's your starter your bell cow whatever label you want he's gonna get you know 70 of your carries and stuff We'll see. You know, he spent all of last season dinged up.
01:17:42
Speaker
And it, you know, it really bit the team in the ass from both, like, um ah just the running production, but also how LaFleur structured his offense to be so, like, run it, run it, and run it again too, frankly, too much of the season.
01:17:59
Speaker
And... um Behind Jacobs, it's a whole lot of and question marks. Yeah. So like the the the most firm thing is that Chris Brooks is the best pass protecting option in the backfield. That's the certain thing and that he's going to make... Bread's in oven. Sorry. like What? Am I having a stroke here? I hear noises.
01:18:26
Speaker
no no marisol's making focaccia so i'm very excited ah yeah um so the one certainty is that chris brooks is making this roster because of the contract they gave him and because just like just watch a lot of the the um secondary reaction deep route passing plays last season you're gonna see 30 making some absurd pass pro pickups on those plays he's making the roster but What is he giving you? And I will give him a... He does have a little bit of juice in Especially... Yeah. When he's like the last option check down guy it's like and he catches the ball wide open. He had a few good rushes because he's more of a contact driven rusher. Right, right. So I'm not going to poo-poo him completely as just a pure pass blocker. He has ability, but is he going to be able to be a reliable number two option if
01:19:21
Speaker
If Jacobs is suspended or is not on the roster anymore. Right. That's the thing. is like He's Tony Fisher. like I really liked Tony Fisher in the early 2000s, but it's like once that 05 season came around and Tony Fisher had to be...
01:19:40
Speaker
ah Yeah. Well, see, I didn't know that. I'm 5,000 miles away. But the player, I like the player. um But like once he had to be RB2 or RB1, like that fell off real quick. And then he got injured too. And as you kind of noted, it's like...
01:19:56
Speaker
Brooks is really good when he's in his niche role, but outside of that, it's kind of like, okay, how much of the you know how much production can he really soak up if Jacobs is, like you said, suspended, cut, you know if the the worst should come out? Or if it's just a repeat of last season where Jacobs is dealing with four nagging injuries again and you need more out of your backups. Yeah.
01:20:22
Speaker
So I have to say this because i don't know Tony personally. I don't know anything like that. I've heard things about him. i did have one experience with him that he probably didn't like me afterwards.
01:20:35
Speaker
um And I know we want to kind of end this episode quick, but I want to tell this story because I love this story. So this is my first game that I've been up to since I was like 12. It was the de Atlanta Falcons game before The Saturday before the games, they usually always had alumni in there signing autographs and all that stuff.
01:21:00
Speaker
Well, that weekend it was Boyd Daller and Marv Fleming. I'd never done one of these alumni signings before at all, so I had no clue what was going on. But a friend of mine had asked me if I could get Marv to sign something for Dolphins-wise because he was on the perfect...
01:21:19
Speaker
oh perfect season dolphins. I said, okay, well, yeah, I don't know how this works. So I'll go ahead and give it a try. So I went up there. i got Boyd Dowd, met Boyd Dallar, got a signature from him, move over to Mar Fleming. And I had two things. i set them down.
01:21:35
Speaker
Tony Fisher was the head of the alumni association at that point. So he was the one that was putting together the alumni stuff. And he gets all hot and bothered that you know, one item per person and this and this. And I was like, i hey, I have no, and he's just having this fit. And um I go, Marv, if you want if you're only going to sign one, then can you do this? But can you at least do the 19 and 0 thing on it? And Tony's, personalization, personalization. And I mean, he's getting hot and bothered over this. It's like, hey, man, I had no clue.
01:22:06
Speaker
I've never done this before. Marv looks at me and goes, I guess it's your lucky day. Sign both of them, put the 19 and 0 on the one. So I'm like, I don't think Tony Fisher was happy with me that day, but yeah.
01:22:18
Speaker
Yeah. Come on, Joe, move it along. But no, I understand your point of view and it is a good story. But um Chris Brooks, we're just asking you to be a little better than that. but But like I said, it is nice that out of Brooks, you're getting some level of certainty out it. Like, you you know that you're getting good ROI, at least as a pass protector. And like you said, theres some he has some shake. He has some power as a runner and stuff. He's good as a lead blocker too. when you know You saw when LeFleur kind of pulled some stuff stuff out in 24 that was a of versatility it provided you there. I'm just not sure how much dynamics he's giving you as the ball carrier.
01:23:03
Speaker
The two guys that you're hoping to see something out of this offseason in that regards behind Jacobs and Brooks is the international man of mystery, Marshawn Lloyd and Damian Martinez. So, Lloyd.
01:23:18
Speaker
Heard. it ah you know You're hearing a lot of the similar things you heard about um Watson two years ago where it's like he went to see all the same specialists that Watson did.
01:23:30
Speaker
They think they've got the hamstring thing figured out. I know some people are irritated by it, but I do appreciate that. like The team is like, yes, we think he figured it out, but we're still to approach it with kid gloves because why why why test our luck again? kind of the why test our and his luck? If I'm Marshawn Lloyd, this is how I would show up tomorrow for physicals.
01:23:57
Speaker
I would look like the kid from Little Giants with all the foam ah padding wrapped, you know, duct taped around the arms and everything. That's how I would walk into tomorrow's physical.
01:24:10
Speaker
No, the way because because his is all soft tissue injuries, I'm just like, I'm wearing this red non-contact jersey. Like, I'm borrowing one of the quarterback ones. and because Because if you look at how he's, I know he's had like some like, oh, he strained a hamstring here or there. But his two like big injuries that he's had his rookie year and last year is because he's just gotten tackled really awkwardly.
01:24:34
Speaker
on On like some, the irony with him is like he makes these receptions, especially last year's one against the Colts where it's like there's no one who's coming out of the backfield and making that catch. And then he gets tackled from behind where the guy like not just pulls him down.
01:24:49
Speaker
Yeah, he not just pulls him down, but then he also, like, rolls into Marshawn's leg, and, like, it was one of those where he got tackled on the Packers' sideline, so, like, you don't see him, like, get up or go off the field, because i think the med staff kind of just pulls him off, like, a wounded soldier off the battlefield kind of thing, and they just kind of yank him onto the sideline, but...
01:25:13
Speaker
if i'm lloyd i'm like i'll do all the drills i'll do all the running all that kind of stuff but it's like do not touch me and i know that you have to go through contact and stuff but like at least through the first half i'm like just don't touch me like and i think they've been pretty smart with him where yeah you know they they limited the limit the number of uh
01:25:34
Speaker
He has three practices. And I think that was too much to the chagrin of some Packers fans when they saw that, where that first practice he went out and had this amazing practice, and then they immediately shut him down and said, no more.
01:25:51
Speaker
It's like, well, yeah, I can understand that, but he has had some bad luck injuries where, yeah um you know, that first season he had, he just come back from the hamstring and then ended up with appendicitis and, you know, had to have his appendix removed.
01:26:07
Speaker
So it's really not much you can do there than last year, like you said, with the, with the bad tackle, but you just, you got roll with what you can.
01:26:18
Speaker
I'm more excited to see what this Damien Martinez is all about, because that's the one that I keep hearing a lot of things about. Really talented guy. Yeah. You got Jaden Nixon as the UDFA this year.
01:26:33
Speaker
I, I haven't heard a lot about him, and I don't remember Sarah talking about him in our running back episode, which is weird because he is the UCF guy. I think she talked about the other one, but not Nixon per se. Yeah, because Nixon was kind of like the change of pace guy to the other. I'm totally on other guy's name. Yeah, completely blanking. it on the other one sorry sarah um and then you got pierre strong who is in year four at 27 years old and i don't think can be on the practice squad anymore at this point yeah he might be done on the practice squad so i think i i just think he's a cap body at this point because he can't be on the practice squad i can't see them keeping him unless
01:27:20
Speaker
Armageddon happens and you know Jacobs is cut. um Lloyd gets injured. Nixon proves that he's nothing. And then like you're like stuck retaining Martinez on upside. um Brooks because of the contract. And it's like, well, Lloyd's on IR again. And then um I guess we have to keep Strong because he knows the playbook. kind of like Out of necessity kind of thing. So that's the only way I can see Strong making the roster. It's like... ah cophony of unfortunate events would have to take place for him to make this roster.
01:27:55
Speaker
um Now, in that sense, there are a couple of guys currently in the in the free agent pool that I would have no problems bringing in just to see what they have.
01:28:06
Speaker
um You know, Najee Harris has been looking really great in a lot of the the videos that he's been posting. I wouldn't be against bringing him on a one-year deal just to see what he has.
01:28:20
Speaker
ah Your boy, Hassan Haskins, you know he's young enough that you know why not bring him in just to see what he can do. over This is talking over Pierre. This isn't as yay the number one guy on the roster instead of Jacobs. These are just guys that you know I wouldn't mind bringing in just to see, hey, can can we get by with him? Nick Chubb, same boat as Najee, that they're both looking good in their workout videos.
01:28:51
Speaker
um Antonio Gibson is one who might intrigue LaFleur because he has some pass-catching ability. Yeah. I just read something today or yesterday that said that Mixon is pretty much saying he's done. So that that's, yeah there's no bringing him in, but there's guys like that. And then, of course, you got all the UDFAs that are still out there that you could say, hey, you know, give me this because we know if we see what what we like and we we can get them on the practice squad. Whereas, like you said, I don't think Pierre Strong can go back on the practice squad.
01:29:27
Speaker
Yeah, all things being... And like you and one more outside-of-the-box one is like if Emmanuel Wilson doesn't make the roster in Seattle, that's a quick phone call for Gudekunst to make. But I think all things being equal...
01:29:43
Speaker
Yeah.
01:29:51
Speaker
and so like if i think the ideal for this room is they're forced to keep forward because martinez plays to his upside lloyd stays healthy and if he stays healthy they're gonna keep him on the roster jacobs is Whether it's at the end of the process hasn't played out yet or it does fully play out and is found, you know, um to be absolved of a lot of the worst parts of the, um the um what's it called, the indictments that he was arrested on, you know, that he turned himself in on, if a lot of those are shown or proven to be... um
01:30:32
Speaker
not true and he's around and then brooks like i said because of the contract they're keeping four because those four outcomes have happened and then nixon is the guy that you're like we can sneak him through to the practice squad so
Player Performance and Podcast Plans
01:30:44
Speaker
um i'd say the percentages are more likely they keep three because again when do they ever bat a thousand on these kind of things and it's some combination of those four but um I do think the hope is that Nixon can be snuck through because he watches highlight film like and his RAS isn't great. Like there's nothing special about him athletically or physically build wise. He's honestly kind of small for a running back.
01:31:10
Speaker
But you do see some like Aaron Jones light out of him in terms of like the kind of runner he is, the kind of receiving option he is. um I think he's a more natural pass catcher than Jones was or is. so And he has some like kick return ability and things like that. So um you know some special teams ability never hurts when you're that low on the um on the rung.
01:31:33
Speaker
But really, in camp, all eyes are on is Lloyd going to stay healthy and what does Damian Martinez show behind our hodgepodge back? And that's always the hard part too in preseason. It's just like, what O-line is Green Bay putting out there? you know And if he produces, it's like, oh.
01:31:53
Speaker
That's pretty good because we don't think too highly of our backup, you know, our deep reserve options on the O-line. So if Martinez is able to produce, great. That's a really good sign for, you know, his upside as a player. cause Because at his best, he's sort of Jacobs-esque where he's like, he's taller than Jacobs, but he's just kind of like a bowling ball guy who just keeps falling and moving forward. Yeah.
01:32:18
Speaker
You know, I'm not super plugged into, like, the the off-field Oregon State-Miami chatter. I had heard somewhere on the periphery that, you know, that the the very stereotypical about any, not just football player, but athletes, like, he may have an over-inflated ego on, like, who he is as a player and all that kind of stuff. But the physical talent is on film.
01:32:41
Speaker
Yeah, I know. Like, you can't succeed in professional sports without that. But, um... If you just want, just based on his highlight film alone, there's a lot to like what's on film from Martinez at Oregon State and at Miami. So that's a guy that I would like to see the roster, make the roster just because he has a lot of physical talents oozing out of him. But any other thoughts you got?
01:33:07
Speaker
No, I think we can wrap up. I do want to throw out there thank you for everybody who tuned in for the open scripted and the the Star Wars trivia stuff and that we will be doing the finals here probably this next week just because we had vacations and everything else to kind of go around. But thank you for all the guests.
01:33:28
Speaker
You know, thank you for everybody who tuned in for that. We are going to be focusing in more on our Packer stuff going forward. So thank you for everything. If you have any suggestions about how to change it up next year, you know, be sure to drop anything if you like what we did, if you want to hear more of something else. If you have guest recommendations, I'm always looking for that. I also want to throw out there that it's possible that I could keep doing the Ope Unscripted.
01:33:55
Speaker
Going forward, even during our Packer stuff, if you want to hear like an interview once a month or whatever, let me know. I can get some stuff scheduled and all that things. But other than that, you know, Mike has finally got to get off his vacation and get back to full time podcasting.
01:34:12
Speaker
So thanks, everybody, for tuning in for that and and being along for the ride. And yeah, thank you, Joe, for keeping this thing afloat and rolling while i enjoyed my time off in the offseason. But like you said, we're back. And that means football is back at this point. So for Iowa Joe, I'm Mike.
01:34:32
Speaker
um Please check us out on the socials at Ohana underscore Packers on Twitter at Ohana Packers Edition on Instagram. As Joe has, id know, preached on all the shows, please give us a follow on Facebook so we can do our drawing. um We're gonna do that once we hit 100 followers on Facebook. Wanna do that so if we ever our live stream, we're live streaming to their Facebook as well as to YouTube. um Follow all the podcast on your favorite podcasting apps. Please give us a like and a subscribe. Questions, comments, thoughts, whatever, send them into us. um We wanna create the content you're looking for.
01:35:08
Speaker
We turned the page one more time. By the time we're recording our next episode, we'll know who's on pop, what the Packers are doing. First practices should have started at that point. So we'll have some reaction to that. But until then, for Iowa Joe, I'm Mike Kawano. Go Pack Go! And aloha!