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Porn is Good For Your Health! The Science will Blow Your Mind
184 Plays21 days ago
Porn is good for your health — and the science will blow your mind!
In this episode of Pleasure Science I sit down with Lotus Lain, an intimacy professional and sex industry advocate, to unpack the truth about porn, sex work, safety, and consent.
Together, we dismantle the biggest misconceptions around sex work and explore what the research actually tells us:
📉 Decriminalizing sex work reduces rape and sexual assault
📈 Criminalizing sex work makes everyone less safe
💡 Porn sets some of the strongest standards of consent you’ll find anywhere
Lotus shares her story of becoming a sex-work professional, the real meaning of consent, and why sex work is work. We talk whorephobia, porn literacy, and the cultural myths that keep people misinformed and afraid of the very industries designed to promote agency, communication, and choice.
This is a necessary conversation that will challenge your assumptions, sharpen your understanding of pleasure, and expand the way you think about sexuality, safety, and empowerment.
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Transcript
Coercion vs. Willing Engagement
00:00:00
Speaker
It's not coerced behavior. Like I actually like this, you know, what is coerced behavior? um Fucking driving to an office 45 minutes one way or the other each day, spending eight hours in an office, trying to make small talk with a bunch of goofy people that I have nothing in common with and still trying to maintain like a pleasant demeanor throughout the day and not snapping. That is coerced behavior. Yeah.
Introduction to Pleasure Science
00:00:34
Speaker
Welcome back everybody to another episode of Pleasure Science, a podcast that makes sexual liberation your new normal by changing the way you love and feel loved. And this episode, I know it's going to be one of my favorites because we're talking about one of my favorite topics, but this episode is going to really blow your mind. We're going to talk about porn. We're going to talk about sex work, and we're going to explain why a lot of the stuff you think is unhealthy is actually very healthy for
Meet Lotus Lane
00:01:04
Speaker
you. And I am joined by none other than Lotus Lane, who is an intimacy professional and advocate for sex workers and the adult industry. Hey, Lotus, welcome to the pod. Thank you for having me.
00:01:21
Speaker
I'm so excited to have you here. We're going to dive into so many fun things.
Defining Sex and Pleasure
00:01:25
Speaker
But the first question I always ask everybody who comes on the podcast is, what is your definition of sex?
00:01:34
Speaker
My definition of sex? m I think something like any kind of action that sparks arousal and ultimately like a full expression of pleasure, like whether it's like, yeah, some people see some people think it's just penetration and some people say like it's oral and fingers.
00:02:00
Speaker
It really depends. I feel like Sometimes people could just be diddling around down there and that's not really sex. And sometimes you can be like having a really intense like finger banging and that's definitely some sex. I don't know. I think it just depends on...
00:02:16
Speaker
the the expression that's had in the moment. Like when I say full expression, that's what I mean. Like you could just be touching and it's just like, you're just touching, or you could go to like the full expression and then you're like wet and sweaty and you're like breathing hard and you're like, whoa, change of like mental state and everything. You know what I'm saying?
00:02:34
Speaker
I do know what you're saying. And I like that intentionality of like, yes, it can be different acts, but it's also like so energetic. and i think Yeah, yeah. It's definitely more energetic, I feel, because I've had that thought and I'm like, well, yeah, it's not just penetration, but also there's like moments where you just have a penetration and it's not even a quickie.
00:02:57
Speaker
You know, maybe like you just are done or you get interrupted or like, did you have full sex or did you just have a moment of penetration? Yeah. Totally. And this is why I asked this question because we do think it's like, oh, it's something hard sliding into something wet.
00:03:14
Speaker
And speaking of like, what is sex?
Sex Work vs. Trafficking
00:03:17
Speaker
So one of the reasons I was so excited to have you on is at the beginning of my journey as a sex scholar and a slut and a slutty human, I started studying porn. That was like my entry level into everything. I found queer porn. I became obsessed.
00:03:33
Speaker
It was super hot. um But one thing that I was really curious about when, and I remember I learned this at Berkeley and it was a huge aha moment for me, is that sex work and sex trafficking are two completely different things. And most people confuse them with each other. And that sex work is consensual, right? If it's not consensual, it's not sex work. And yeah, I can already take it away. yeah That's the whole thing. That's the whole definition. Sex work. by definition, it is consensual. You're submitting to certain conditions to do certain sexual acts or you know get certain payment for certain acts or behaviors. But in trafficking, and this is any kind of labor trafficking, you're being forced to do these things against your will.
00:04:22
Speaker
um It's not like you're choosing and negotiating and and deciding pricing on your own. It's being forced upon you and it's really a terrible situation that nobody wants to find
Empowerment in Sex Work
00:04:33
Speaker
themselves in. Whereas sex work can be something more liberating, empowering, whether it's like you're freeing up your free time or your mental space to do other things with your free time. Yeah, I think sex work is just like any other kind of freelance type of work.
00:04:51
Speaker
Amen. i agree. And like ah one thing I always like to say to people is like sex work is consensual. If it's not, it's not sex work. Just like sex is if sex is not consensual, it's not sex. Like I feel like that. Yeah, it's like rape or coercion or, you know, those kinds of things. That's literally in the definition.
00:05:11
Speaker
Yes, absolutely. And it is empowering. Like as someone who's had my own experience with sex work as a dominatrix, like it was super empowering. And everybody I meet in the sex industry, these are the most empowered people. And I always say, if you want to learn about good sex, you got to learn from a
Lotus Lane's Journey
00:05:28
Speaker
slut. And so I want to hear a little bit about your story, Lotus. Like you Right now, you're intimacy coordinating. You've also done a lot of porn. You have been featured in amazing books, including the book We Too, which everyone should read. It's a really good one. It's all about like instead of me too, let's talk about we too and include sex workers into the conversation. But what is your story, your your slutty story, your sex work story? How did you get to where you are now?
00:05:56
Speaker
Wow. Like the whole story. Okay. um I would say I've always been interested in sex since I was a young child. um I don't know if it's the Leo in me, you know, they always say Leo women are but wildly sexual. um That was something that used to haunt me as a child. Cause I was like, Oh my God, no, this can't be true. Like these thoughts and all this, you know, I grew up Catholic. So all this guilt and stuff, but then, um,
00:06:22
Speaker
Let me see. I guess as I grew up in my young teens, early 20s, you start exploring more and and realize like sex is where I'm kind of finding myself and my, yeah, just my voice, my...
00:06:37
Speaker
way of expressing myself. I might've been shy or just really um type A minded before like getting good grades and that sort of thing. And you don't really express yourself with getting good grades. You just like attain the grade and like you're, you're a good kid, you know? um But yeah, even um I wasn't like a sports person, so I didn't have like this physical connection with my body. um That's to say like when I started having sex and, know,
00:07:06
Speaker
even like exploring BDSM and stuff later, I kind of realized, wow, I am actually a strong person. This is really empowering. And for a lot of people, sex can be really, so you know, detrimental, sad, like depends on their experiences or the way they think about sexual encounters. But for me, each one, and I had many different I would say one night stands in my 20s that that it kind of led me to be like, oh, this is really something I could take seriously, like as a profession. So I had my two serious boyfriends in my 20s, two five year relationships. And then after that, was like, well, if this doesn't work out, I can always just do like it'll be my dirty 30 gift to myself. And that's exactly what in fact happened. um By then I was a young mom of like a five-year-old child and I was raising them with the sense like, oh, you can grow up to be anything you want to be. And I felt like that was such a lie because I personally hadn't done that myself. So the chasing, whatever I was chasing to find out in the sex world, because at the time you come, like the worlds are very separate. Like you're in the normal person world doing regular jobs, you know, and the you know, retail and hotel hospitality industry. And then you decide to do
Transition to Porn Industry
00:08:19
Speaker
porn. And like, you're in a whole different world, opened up to whole different people, mentalities and ways of living. It was just so different. um
00:08:27
Speaker
And so that's when I i started. I actually, that that's a whole story in itself too. I met this girl at a strip club who was doing porn and she introduced me to her literal pimp. And like, we had like like a little...
00:08:40
Speaker
love affair. And I was like, this is fucking deep. I can't do this. And I'm like, let me just do porn. That's safe for, and it was, and it is. And so then I just followed her lead on the porn.
Advocacy and Misconceptions
00:08:53
Speaker
contact And then here I am today. um You know, i I found that so many people do get taken advantage of in the industry. And maybe I did in certain ways by just getting misdirected with misinformation. And that's what got me more into advocacy for sex workers, because I realized the industry in itself is not bad or dangerous. It's the way people treat and stigmatize sex workers from the outside, the way they like treat Anybody that has done sex work is like a dirty, unredeemable, slutty, filthy whore that's going to taint anybody that comes within their path. or
00:09:31
Speaker
it's also dangerous because... it's like there's so much misinformation. There's no real guidance. It's every man for himself. So if you kind of get the bad information, you're going to have a bad time. You're going to have a bad trip. You're going to have like the worst experience. And then the people that go off to have really long lasting careers or really amazing um financial gain, they've had good things happen to them. Good advice. They've known like a better path
Support for Newcomers
00:09:58
Speaker
to go on. And that's what led me to create Inspire at Free Speech Coalition, which is the industry newcomer support program to kind of dispel the myths, the bad myths that people get into in the industry um that lead them down the wrong path of misinformation. It's kind of just like basic, this is how you're going to be successful in this industry, information. that anybody should have access to, whether it's like tax info, this is how the industry works, this is how you, you know, verify if someone's a scam or a fraud or not, because that's really what I realized is a lot, I'm so going off, I'm sorry, but the people. No, this is important. Not about the industry are the fraudsters and the scammers are actually not a part of the legitimate porn and adult industry. The legitimate industry is a legitimate business industry and it's thriving and it's a billion dollar industry and people are making money and having legacies and going on and on and on. The scammers on the outskirts that thrive off people not knowing
00:10:56
Speaker
what they should know, you know, being naive, the misinformation, the mystery and the mystique around the industry. Those are the people that make a bad name for the industry. The girls do porn dudes. They weren't in the industry. They're just some fricking scammers that, you know, lured girls in a hotels. And that's the type of stuff that leads to actual trafficking.
00:11:17
Speaker
Yes. And what can we keep an eye No, and we're going to go really deep into this because I want, like, there are some incredible statistics about all of this stuff, including how porn doesn't even make it into, porn and sex work does not even make it into the top 10 of all industries when it comes to any type of sexual assault or assault.
00:11:36
Speaker
work misconduct, porn and sex work doesn't even make it into
Impact of Decriminalization
00:11:40
Speaker
the top 10. So I, and we're going to talk about that in a second, but you brought up something really important. So how does someone look out for these scammers? What is a clue? So that way people know to buy porn in an ethical place, or if someone wants to explore doing sex work, they know like not to go to that van over there on the corner, right? What should someone look for Definitely if you're like a consumer wanting to buy ethical porn, go to sites that are US or Canada or UK, like European based. When you start getting more into like the based off site sites, like Eastern European countries and things, it's really hard to verify if they're doing things in an ethical way. And it's not to say that those countries have scammers, but they don't have as many regulations to prevent scamming from happening. So, you know, it could be a scammer from Alabama, but they're like hosting their website in Russia because they know they could get away with it over there. So I'm not saying it's anything against certain countries. It's just they know that the laws are more flexible or they don't even necessarily have laws the way we do in the U.S., which is a good and a bad thing because those laws are in place to keep everybody safe and keep things in an ethical standpoint and legal. But then it also creates this kind of like black market underworld where people know they could go to other sites. So with that said, try and go to like U.S.-based, Canadian-based sites. um Usually there's some sort of
00:13:12
Speaker
I would say disclaimer or something on the website kind of giving their mission statement or how they conduct business. Some sites even have like model interviews before after. And you can see part of the personality of the model coming through, which I've always loved as a consumer. Those are my favorite. Oh no, those are, I'm like, cause I love emotional connection. So I love watching people fuck. And then I love watching the porn stars after like talk. And I'm like, what they really feel like in the morning. Yeah.
00:13:40
Speaker
They were feeling that? Okay, cool. i Maybe I don't feel as guilty thinking like this was so hardcore, I indulge in it. Or maybe now I feel like an extra element of turn on because they were saying something that I didn't even register was happening, but now I see it. So yeah, those interviews really will give you a clue in is as to how the real performer human person was in this moment. um You can also do your research. There's so many articles now that have the different companies talking about the way they conduct business. on set or with performers about their experiences. um So yeah, a little bit of research goes a long way as far as if you're going to perform for ethical sites and you're a newer performer trying to navigate that. um
00:14:26
Speaker
Do your research as far as ask around. We are a small community, but we are a large widespread community. Everybody talks. there Everybody has a reputation. If you ask Someone, hey, have you worked with this producer before and no one's heard of them? That's usually a major red flag. I wouldn't be the first person to work with this person that no one's ever heard of. um Or if you even go to their site, you know ask to see it, see if it's the kind of content that you want to be associated with, if that's the kind of fan base you want to attract that are into whatever you're seeing on their site. See the other performers on their site, if you like those performers and what they see.
00:15:06
Speaker
are all about and what they represent, you can reach out to those performers and say, hey, how was it working on this site? How was your experience? And they'll tell you, you know, the real deal was really cool. It was easy going or this guy's a real dickhead. It's really hard to get through the day. Like, so you can make your decisions based on that. And some people are like, well, I could get through a hard day, whatever. Or some people ah oh, no, I'm too sensitive for shit like that but you really should when it comes down to it whether you're consumer or performer do your research there is a big wide vast internet nowadays it's not like the old days where it's just word of mouth um like and it's lost in the wind there's there's documented histories of how people are treated and the way you should be treated so to do that
00:15:48
Speaker
Absolutely. Yes, 100%. And I totally relate because I remember it in my kink journey, I got introduced through a friend of mine who was a waitress, not in the community, to a dom. And I was i did what you said. I asked around to all my slutty, kinky friends. And i'm like, has anyone heard of this person? He goes by, i won't say his name on the pod, but I said his name. you No one had heard of him.
00:16:10
Speaker
And so of course I text those. And that's even something in person that you can do if you're discovering kink and stuff or playing sexually in person and someone wants to go deeper. Yeah. Like you would ask the people that you met them through your friends. So.
00:16:24
Speaker
Yep, 100%. And so speaking of this, you know, there's incredible research that we now have that shows that in countries where sex work is legal, cases of rape and sexual assault go way down. And I want to even read some of these studies, and then I want to ask you a question about this, because I want everyone listening to really get how, like, the research. So there was a 2023 study of prostitution laws across 31 countries,
00:16:49
Speaker
countries over a 20-year period that found that decriminalizing prostitution led to a drastic decline in rape, and it made illegal sex trafficking way harder to do. Then another study in 2017 in Rhode Island found that decriminalizing indoor sex work, for and anyone who doesn't know what that is, we're referring to escorting services, brothels, massage parlors, That led to a 30% decrease in rape and sexual assault in Rhode Island. So, Lotus, if we know that decriminalizing sex work makes everybody safer, why do you think the focus is still on criminalizing sex work? It's the devil. That's the way we protect people. Why are we getting it so wrong in our society?
00:17:36
Speaker
In our society in particular, I definitely do believe there is a war against women and women's bodies, um especially because the war that's being the people that are waging the war, they they think of sex work exclusively as something that a woman does, which is not just women doing sex
Societal Views on Sex Work
00:17:56
Speaker
work. There's all types of bodies doing sex work, male, trans, non-binary, the whole gamut, you know, um but In their worldview, it's a thing where women do sex work, women are being trafficked, young children and women need to be saved. So that's one angle of it being demonized so heavily, but also um in the same vein of war against women. They don't want us profiting from this in this way. i don't think they want to see us thriving from something that they think is morally wrong, um that it could be their daughters next. um If they wake up and and smell the the reality. The OnlyFans.
00:18:35
Speaker
yeah Yeah. You know, um so I think there's a lot of fear and in all of that because as we were saying in the beginning, there is a sense of empowerment in it one way or the other, whether you're um reclaiming your sexuality, finding out that your body isn't as disgusting as society tries to tell you it is. um There's so just so many things to learn about one's own self and sex work. And I think um that knowledge of self is something that, I mean, these powers of be have been trying to end, like stop since the Adam and Eve era. So yeah.
00:19:10
Speaker
No, I just think like the more about morality police, it just feeds into all of that. Um, And honestly, there's no way to like tax sex work if we like talking governmentally so that there's also that greedy sensation around it. Like they can't tax it. So how are they going to regulate it? So are you going to get rich from it and, you know, make your living off of It's the whole thing.
00:19:37
Speaker
Yeah. And it reminds me a lot too of whorephobia, which if anyone doesn't know what that word is, it's the fear of sex workers and sexually empowered people. How do you see whorephobia? Because I feel like whorephobia ruins everybody's sex life, whether they're aware of it or not. What do you think about it? How do you see it cropping up?
00:19:58
Speaker
um In our society. Yeah, I think whore phobia kind of takes over in in especially in I've noticed the most in straight female friendships.
Whorephobia and Friendships
00:20:13
Speaker
um You know, even if it's unspoken, it's like that. subtle clocking of like, Oh, how many dates has she gone on since she recently broke up with like, it's like they're keeping tabs on, on each other's body count or like promiscuity. um It's oh well, you know, i don't have those problems. I've been with my boyfriend for so long, like, Oh, we're so lame, but like, I'm so loyal and so protected from these disgusting dating stories. You single women go through like little subtle digs like that. I've noticed. Um,
00:20:47
Speaker
And I think in other relationships that are like maybe queer women or even just sex work women where there's a mix of straight and queer, um even if there is competition, maybe it's like in a different way, more playful. um But it's definitely more celebratory, I would say, in a way that I've never experienced in in um straight, cis, female friendships, where there's just always that subtle competition or shaming of like, oh my God, be careful. You've had that many sex partners. Are you being careful? I mean, there's people that have had one and and can catch a case or a pregnancy off of that. So don't tell me about being careful. um
00:21:30
Speaker
You know, so there, I think that is one way I see whore phobia in society, especially in female friendships. But wow, if we want to talk about just men and the way they see women, oh my God.
Men's Attitudes and Jealousy
00:21:42
Speaker
Ooh, let's talk about it for a second. Cause I think like women policing themselves is sinister and it's a way we trap ourselves, but yeah. And then men and whore phobia, it's a big problem too. What do you say there?
00:21:55
Speaker
Men are, I just say they're just psychopaths for real. Like they want us, but they hate us, but they want us, but deep down inside, maybe they even want to be us like bro. ah yes, it's fun to be a slut and to be desired and to be sexy and, you know, like,
00:22:13
Speaker
Sorry that not everybody can embody that, but we actually can and if we stop hating on each other. and that's the funny gag of it all. Like, I think the hate comes from this like deep embedded jealousy. Like, why do they get to be like that? Why do, why do they get to experience that? Like who says they get to get away with that and not get to be punished and not have to be punished for being slutty or have the consequences. What are the consequences I should have? Everyone should have a disease. Like, you know, like what is the consequences? Like, so You know, things like that that they wish upon people are like, let's take this away so it's illegal now. um
00:22:49
Speaker
Okay, well, you could be slutty and celebrated too. Like, again, back to before, it's an energy thing. It's not like how one looks or like whatever. yeah Yeah, it is a little bit of charisma. So get that together. That's on you. But mean,
00:23:07
Speaker
The thing is, I really feel like on both sides, it comes from a jealousy, hate, like, why do they get to? don't Yes. I agree. Because people were were taught how to police ourselves. That's the part we never talk about. And then we use sex to do so. And so you're so right that it's this inner jealousy, but also this, like, if society isn't going to punish you for being a slut, then I'm going to. I'm going h Exactly. yeah we like um like Words of shaming with whatever. Yeah.
00:23:39
Speaker
And studies show you're twice as mean to yourself as you are to other people. So everybody listening, stop slut shaming others. Your sex life will improve within a few weeks.
00:23:50
Speaker
Stop slut shaming yourself to look in the mirror and know that you are also worthy of a lots of pleasure. Yes. And speaking of that, a good way to stop doing that is by watching porn. You know, porn can be super healthy for you and it can be super healthy for your mind. There's studies that show that women who watch more porn actually have more orgasms than women who don't. And so I want to take a second to just go down the positivity train. So Lotus, you've been in this industry for a long time. How has sex work improved your life?
00:24:21
Speaker
Wow. I definitely feel like i'm more I have more of a um selection of things to be into, whether it's really sensual vanilla type sex or passionate, romantic, kissing, touching. all it like I just know how to experience and enjoy different types of sex instead of, and and thinking of it in different ways, instead of just having a narrow minded view of like, oh, it's just like penetration. And when the guy comes, you know, um so that is fun. I think I've also experienced being attracted to different bodies in ways that I didn't expect to be. and getting pleasure from different types of bodies and people in ways that I probably wouldn't have been open to before. So yeah, I think i think it just just opened up my my pleasure scope, what's available.
00:25:18
Speaker
Yes, and that is why it's so healthy for people because sex is something you learn through observation and conversation and porn is like, hey, here is like, first off, we know
Porn as an Educational Tool
00:25:28
Speaker
it's a performance. These are actors, right? You're not going to watch a romantic comedy and think that everything that happened there is going to happen here. Yeah, like it's the same thing. Like we know porn is a performance.
00:25:39
Speaker
But you can explore anything and get a taste of anything. You can watch it and show your partner, hey, it really turned me on how he like did this to her. Can we try that? Like it's yeah so helpful in so many ways. And when we stigmatize it, we're actually just stigmatizing and blocking ourself. And so- Our own pleasure opportunities, yeah. Yeah. And so what do you think people really get wrong about sex work or porn?
00:26:08
Speaker
that it's just inherently exploitative. Okay, they keep putting their own morals on the performers. Like, ah no woman should be exposed like that. Like, what are you freaking talking about? Some of us are exhibitionists. Some of us really, really like that. and and And it's not because of some past traumas or bad things. Like some of us are just hams and we like people looking at us. Oh my God. you know, like some of us- Relatable.
00:26:37
Speaker
Yeah, aren't that shy. Like it's just that that one always gets me. And I think that is the one that really actually still gets under my skin to this day because I'm like, what will it take for people like you that think that it's just inherently exploitative, especially to women?
00:26:55
Speaker
ah If a woman is telling you from years of experience in this actual industry that I like it, I enjoy it, it's fun, it's thrilling to me. Like, what is it going to take for you to believe that and believe that there's no strings behind my head, no puppet master, no guy whispering in my ear, telling me to say this? There's not like, it's not coerced.
00:27:16
Speaker
behavior. Like I actually like this, you know, what is coerced behavior? um Fucking driving to an office 45 minutes one way or the other each day, spending eight hours in an office trying to make small talk with a bunch of goofy people that I have nothing in common with and still trying to maintain like a pleasant demeanor throughout the day not snapping. That is coerced behavior.
00:27:37
Speaker
Yep. Oh, I talk about like behind closed doors. I talk about it all the time, how we have to decolonize like the corporate brain that's that's in our head. Right. like Yeah, like people think that's normal. that That was hard times for me. You know, those were the rough times.
00:27:53
Speaker
Not the times with the sexies. and no not No, not the pile driver with the camera right against my butthole. That was perfectly fine. And what do you say to people who come to you? Because what I love about you is you're not just a performer. You're not just an intimacy coordinator. You're an activist. You go all over the world. You fight the good fight and argue these things like you're doing the things that most people say they're going to do and don't do. But what do you say to people when someone turns around you and is like, but what about the girls? What about the girls getting all the exploitation? What what do you say to that?
00:28:28
Speaker
I just say some of those girls really like that and they they have autonomy to make those decisions for themselves. They don't need someone like you imposing your beliefs or making those decisions for them because you're actually doing exactly what you think a pimp is, which is making decisions for them.
00:28:45
Speaker
Yes. And actually, in in thinking of that, at the beginning when you were sharing your story, you mentioned how you had met a pimp and you two were lovers. um And people hear the word pimp and they're like, uh-oh, it's the beginning of the end. she's about We're about to hear the the sad story. Are there any like misconceptions too about like...
00:29:02
Speaker
pimps that even to share really quick yeah he was a goon he was a fucking goofball he wasn't like almighty and powerful i just think he had people around him that were like willing to listen to him maybe they're a little weak that's also why i wasn't like taken over he recognized i was not going to just like bow down to him and listen to him which i guess was like what earned me respect where we could just hang out on an even level like I don't know how how to even explain it maybe these people were under some sort of hypnotization of thinking they were beneath like yeah when you really have a low self-worth you don't see yourself as equal to other people and it's easy for people to manipulate you and tell you to do all these things but like
00:29:46
Speaker
me being of like sound mind and body i couldn't just he couldn't just say hey bitch do this i was just like okay like literally like all right full like laughing at him like and i think i like noogied him or something like i don't know he's just very he's very silly but like loud and like maybe the loudness scares people but With that to say, um people cannot have power over you unless you let them.
00:30:14
Speaker
That's, I think, what I took from that whole situation. And he was just surrounding himself by people that were like listening to him like bark off orders. And eventually i just like stopped hanging out because I was like, well, i'm not going to ever listen to him.
00:30:26
Speaker
This was fun. This is an interesting peak. But like it's also getting really deep and real. And I can't save these people. yeah which I couldn't, so. Absolutely. And speaking of that, like I mentioned earlier, like there is statistics that show like actual across all different types of industries, like the rates of assault and violation that happen in the workplace. And sex work does not even make it into the top 10. And I loved what you were saying about how like, yeah, if you have less self-esteem, you'll more easily manipulated. That's not a sex work problem. Yeah.
00:30:59
Speaker
Yeah. That's a any problem. I mean, I remember working at a shoe store before and being cornered by like the... you know, manager dude, because he was like leery and gross. And I didn't know what to say, but it had nothing to do with sex work or sex, even like it was a shoe store. But he knew I was like a young, insecure, whatever. So he could corner me and make me feel weird. Who knows what he did to anybody else? But Yeah, I bet in so many other jobs that I've had before sex work, I thought about it like the Me Too movement definitely happened while I was doing sex work. But that's those things have been happening in every job. And that's what I realized. i was like, oh, when I was a waitress, oh, this happened and all this stuff. And I'm sure so many of us as women have had those moments where you're like, oh, that little brush up, those moments of discomfort. That was me being sexually harassed.
00:31:47
Speaker
Yes, and I relate because when I was in retail, I got harassed by one of my bosses. has yet I've never had in the sex industry anything happen that has happened to me as a waitress, as a retail store person. And for anyone listening who's curious, like, okay, what are the industries where assault and violation is bad? Let me tell you, it's the Ubers and the Lyfts. Those make the top five. It is people who work in janitorial staff and night staff also makes the top five. entertainment people who are in airline and travel people who are in hospitality food restaurants people who work on farms so these are all the stuff look at all that we're listing we haven't even hit sex work and porn and right and these are respectable jobs as people like respectable jobs but no totally there's been many times i've been disrespected in those respectable jobs
00:32:41
Speaker
Yep. Same. And so what do you want people to know as we think about decriminalizing sex work? How do we support sex workers?
Sex Industry Innovations
00:32:50
Speaker
Because we're up against so many stigmas, so many of which are not true.
00:32:56
Speaker
Well, the the thing is, too, I want people in society out there to just realize that so many of the things that they benefit from even nowadays had origins in sex work, like even the PayPal app, like The fact that people didn't want their credit cards on porn sites, that was something. The fact that we have home entertainment just in general, you know, because VHS tapes, because people wanted to watch porn at home and not go out to the um porn movie theaters. theaters, right? The porn theaters. god I think that was a lie. I would want to go. We could have gone together. Oh, my God. Right.
00:33:33
Speaker
But yeah, you know, ah so all these modern comforts that we take for granted had origins in giving, you know, in sex work, um whether it was to like give people access to or have more privacy. So I would say listen to performers, sex workers, porn stars, when we're talking about something political online publicly, because usually it's very important and it's usually going to trickle down into the rest of society. And we're literally just trying to warn you guys. um But for some reason, if tits are out and if butt cheeks are out, like you think we're not serious, but we're so fucking serious. Like the thing with age verification that just started happening. A lot of people now are seeing that, um,
00:34:19
Speaker
Certain sites are not accessible in their states. Certain freedoms of theirs have been taken away on the internet unless they want to submit their biometric data, which is like your eye retina scan or something like that, or your facial scan or your ID. And if you have like an expired ID or a lost ID, which, you know, shit happens. We we all always go through those ID things.
00:34:42
Speaker
I guess that week you are not watching any porn and you are not going to have any kind of release unless you just use your imagination. So yeah, or again, they're directing you to the...
00:34:55
Speaker
um pirate sites, which could give you viruses on your computer or they're more likely to have um child sex abuse material or revenge porn on consensual images, all the bad stuff that we're actually legislating against in this crazy ass country. You might be inviting onto your computer if you're trying to circumvent all of the the barriers we now have against adults and explicit material online. so Yeah, it often makes everything worse.
00:35:30
Speaker
Yeah, i get a VPN. You never know what will be blocked next. Yeah, truly. And what safeguards do you think we can put in place to make sex work better for people? And maybe this could be things in society or maybe it's things in the industry, but what can we do to improve sex work?
00:35:53
Speaker
um I think it should just be decriminalized on a national level. um the The thing is, um when we use terms like legalization, it it also creates um another black market where there are people that wouldn't qualify for legalization, whether it be through fines or fees for um a licensing or or maybe they have a certain legal status that would prevent them from being legal or immigration status. or whatever. So, or if it's different states, things like that, that complicates things and creates another um area for like criminalization and then a black market. So decriminalization would be better. Just let it be literally like an agreement between two consensual adults, um where if something happens, just like with between two consensual adults, if someone steals something from someone or doesn't pay for services, it can be brought to court. It can be brought to um authorities and it could be handled in a legal business dispute rather than um i
Policy and Sex Worker Voices
00:36:56
Speaker
don't know the cops like taking the sex worker around the corner and like also raping her because she's reporting a crime and there's no real legal way of uh dealing with that so they know they can get away with things like that if cops know they can't get away with things like that and everything's up on the table for everybody then everybody will be a lot safer
00:37:15
Speaker
but Absolutely. And I think one of the big keys that I'm hearing too is like, we need to talk to the whores, the sex workers. We can't keep making all of these decisions politically. Without people that it literally involves. Yeah, that's a big problem in our country in general is like kind of trying to create legislation around communities or populations without including that population at the table, creating these laws and and regulations. So yeah.
00:37:41
Speaker
Yeah, listen to whores, listen to porn stars, listen to sex worker sluts. um We know our lives better than anyone else. It's not a big mystery. um And you can protect, yeah.
00:37:53
Speaker
No, it is. and And you can protect the people who are going to get violated and who are more vulnerable when we listen to the people who are empowered. Because just as you said, like I've learned so much listening to you in this conversation. of different things of like like, yeah, like if we have the legalization in this way, oh, it makes things less safe over here.
00:38:12
Speaker
Like what we, because that's the other problem here is that people will be introduced with a solution and if it fits respectability politics, we think it's a good solution for sex work and it's often the worst one we could imagine.
00:38:25
Speaker
Right. Yeah. Because whether you're making now the um customer, the illegal person or the, you know, provider, the illegal person um legalization, that's literally all it does. It just creates another barrier for entry. And the thing about sex work, any kind of like, I would say even any kind of physical, live I always compare sex work to like construction. Like the thing is, you should just be able to do it.
00:38:50
Speaker
Just of your own volition, your body works, you're able to provide this service, you're able to get compensated for said service. And there shouldn't be any other governmental barriers or structures preventing that. Because ah ah often people use it as a step up out of but like probably the worst situations of their lives, whether it's abuse, mistreatment, you know, anything. So yeah, legalization only makes that tougher.
00:39:18
Speaker
Yeah, which is such an oxymoron until you sit down with someone amazing like Lotus Lane and get to talk more about that. And as we wrap up all these amazing things, what are some things you're excited about right now in the industry?
Direct-to-Fan Empowerment
00:39:32
Speaker
What am I excited about? I am excited about, honestly, just um kind of the um the way it's been put back into the performers individual hands as far as like direct to fan site popularity, um even in this wild economy, you know, people are still, You know, even with the age verification things kind of preventing um a lot of money being made online, I think it's still important to note that that performers, porn performers, sex workers are still able to produce video content direct to their fans and able to monetize it in that way. And to me, that's always the safest form of sex work. It's not one-on-one. It's not in person. Yes, it does require internet and some sort of tech savvy, but I feel very empowered by that myself because I feel like it allows one to do solo content, group content. It's kind of sky is the limit. So that is always exciting to me. um
00:40:38
Speaker
I'm excited to see the future of trends, whether the whole AI thing is going to take off as much in the industry as people not want, like but it's available. But also I know that consumers are wary of that and they don't like that when they sense they're talking to a bot or that um messaging or programming is AI influenced. It's not It doesn't seem welcome. So that's what I'm saying.
00:41:12
Speaker
When I say it's exciting to see, like, yeah, it's just as exciting to see what the actual outcome, like what's going to happen? How is this really going to be received? Is the is the bubble going to burst? I can't predict one way or the other, but I just like to see what what could happen because our industry is always changing. We're always kind of at the forefront of technological advances or or trying new things. um So if this doesn't work out, I know we we'll be...
00:41:38
Speaker
the first to be trying out the new next thing. so Yeah, and that's another myth that people don't realize. Sex work and sex tech, we are often at the forefront of so many things and then it trickles down to the rest of society. Yeah, to other people. Yeah, I mean,
00:41:53
Speaker
think about like just this whole world of being connected and everything in video um chatting. I'm pretty sure that probably started somewhere along the line with someone wanting to um video chat their favorite, you know, webcam girl or something like that. um So you're welcome society. Literally. I always, whenever I hear the word you're welcome, I'm like, there's come and you're welcome. but there is Hopefully it tastes good. Hey, yep. I agree. ah well, Lotus, thank you so much for being here. We always close out with some rapid fire questions. So are you ready for your three yummy rapid fire questions? Yeah, I'm ready.
00:42:34
Speaker
So the first question is what is the best sex advice you have ever received? The best sex advice I've ever received? Um,
00:42:46
Speaker
I guess it would just be, um, just let go, you know, just let go. Like, don't focus on trying just like be in the moment, let go. Yeah. Ah, that's totally, that's so good. And now what is the worst sex advice you've ever received?
00:43:05
Speaker
probably someone saying to use Vaseline as lube, like it back in the early days, like my youngest. It's also petroleum jelly. Like what?
00:43:18
Speaker
Yeah, definitely yeah bad advice. don't Guys, don't even use that as your jack off masturbate. Cause I know some guys do that. Get some something better. Get something with some actual lubrication. Yeah, it did go on Amazon. to a Two clicks. Two clicks. Yeah. It's not expensive anymore either. So, yeah.
00:43:38
Speaker
And then final question. What do you hope will change about the way the world views sex in the future? ah um I just hope people will see um the beauty and positivity in sex. It's literally like the origins of life. So like demonizing something that like sparks the creation of life and our entire existence is not inherently bad. It's like the weird extra ideas and things that we put on it that makes it bad. But that doesn't even come from like,
00:44:13
Speaker
our beginnings, we just put these extra things that make no sense for what, like for what, just to make ourselves feel uncomfortable. Like let it all go, um embrace the beauty and wild messiness of sex and stop thinking it has to look a certain way.
00:44:31
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I love it. It's so beautiful when you stop trying, it's just like fun. Oh, and it reminds me of this poem from the Euro we heed. We were all born from sex. There's no shame in such a. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. That's what i always think when people have like so much stigma or shame or shyness or, you know, anxiety around i'm like, wow, like, let it go. Like, that's literally the origins of life and like.
00:44:57
Speaker
If you think of it more that way, like it's not a as big of a deal, but it's also a bigger deal than to just treat it so shitty too. Yes, absolutely. Ah, I'm so, I knew this was going to be such a good conversation and Lotus, I know everybody is obsessed with you now. So where can they find you, um, your content? I know you have a podcast. Where can folks find more about you?
00:45:21
Speaker
um i'm online so on twitter i'm at it's lotus lane on instagram and tick tock it's at icicy.lotus and um i have a website iclotus.com so hit me up message me follow me let's stay connected Yes. Wonderful. Well, that is it for this week's episode of Pleasure Science. Join us next week when we will be talking all about digital intimacy and your digital responsibility. And I love how Lotus mentioned revenge porn. We're going to talk a little bit about that.
00:45:59
Speaker
in this episode, but we're also going to talk about all the ways you show affection with your phone, with your photos. Digital intimacy is fascinating. So I know you're going to want to tune in next week for that because it will forever change how you view sex, love, and your cell phone. ah ah In the meantime, you can say hi to me on Instagram or TikTok at Pleasure Science. And I love hearing from all of you. So please comment, say hi. I cannot wait to get to know ah you. And if this episode made your heart or your hips move, please subscribe and leave a review telling me what you learned so we can keep giving you more of what you love. And if you are watching this episode on YouTube, hello, darling, leave a comment, let us know what you learned in this episode and Lotus and I can both say hi to you.
00:46:50
Speaker
And before I leave you, i have a special gift for everybody who is listening to the Pleasure Science Podcast. So a few years ago, I created something called the Touch and Trust Method. It is a video guide that shows you how to read your lover's body like a map and how to de-shame your brain so you can show up to sex feeling present and proud and fully yourself. The Touch and Trust Method has already helped thousands of people and as a special gift, Listeners of the Pleasure Science podcast get 10% off using the code Pleasure Science Pod. So go and check out that link in our show notes or go to PleasureScience.com to look up the touch and trust method. it's um And it goes well with porn.
00:47:35
Speaker
You know, learn a little bit. watch a little porn. It's all good. and thank you for joining us this week. Before we go, i want to encourage everybody listening to do something that you have been craving to do. Okay. That little luxury, that little pleasure that you have been putting off.
00:47:54
Speaker
Stop doing that. I want you to go do that little yummy pleasure tonight or in the next 24 hours. Farewell for now. I'll see you next week.
00:48:08
Speaker
This podcast is a pleasure science production hosted by me, Nadej, your resident sex scholar. The pleasure science podcast is produced by Laura Moore and edited by Camille Furman-Cullot.
00:48:22
Speaker
Our music is by Octasound and is licensed under the Pixabay content license. To find out more about pleasure science and to sign up for our online courses, please visit www.pleasurescience.com.
00:48:37
Speaker
you