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Philip Barasch
986 Plays8 months ago
Philip Barasch has maintained a lifelong interest in sequential art. He is the creator of HandHewn, a magazine designed to explore the Graphic Short Story art form. His years in Portland, Oregon included involvement with The Stumptown Comic Book Convention, Sequential Art Gallery and Talisman Gallery. Philip and his wife, Charis, relocated to Astoria, Oregon in 2018. Charis departed this world in 2022, radically altering Philip's art form. He is now creatively consumed by this forced, revolutionary reinvention.
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Transcript
Introduction of Hosts and Guest
00:00:01
Speaker
You are listening to something rather than nothing. Creator and host Ken Volante. Editor and producer Peter Bauer.
00:00:16
Speaker
Everybody, I'm here in Albany, Oregon. I'm chatting with Philip Barish. And prior to me going on a little bit about you, Philip, welcome to
Challenges and Connections
00:00:28
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the program. Very happy to have you on. Yes, thank you for having me here. And this journey was a little bit thorny to get here. But the thing is that
00:00:37
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There's the reason and then there's the reason we had several, let's just say challenges before we now arrived at where we are. Some of those challenges may not be fully understood yet, but we know that they will. I love it. This is a conversation, I mean, just to drop into
00:00:58
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You know, my quick path to you going back a little bit, your daughter Renee Barish was an esteemed guest on episode 149. And Renee's even tattooed my partner, Jenny, with her artistry.
00:01:15
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And not too long after meeting Chan with Renee, I heard a lot about you, and of course, Charis as well, her mom, before she passed away. And it was a really good vibe around that, but Renee picked up that I was obviously doing the podcast, jazzed up, I said, and she's like, you know, you get to talk to my dad, but also my interest in
Impact of Weather on Communication
00:01:44
Speaker
sequential art and in comics and illustration. And so it's a lot of excitement. We had folks and listeners, there's been some weather events out here out in the wonderful coast and towards the Astoria, Oregon and the Mid Valley.
00:02:07
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Which, so Philip and I are very excited at this moment as you listen to actually be conversing back and forth. But how
Bearing Witness: Philip's Gallery and Personal Journey
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are you holding up with all the weather and coastal events out there, Phil?
00:02:23
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Well, everything is back to normal now. I mean, the storms really were apocalyptic. We can actually use that word. And of course, glorious in the scale of how apocalyptic they were. And it's so interesting when you have events of this scale and of this nature where they just kind of come in and shut everything down. I know that you and I had a period of several days where
00:02:49
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we weren't even able to contact each other because there was no internet, there was no power. But there's something wonderful and human about that. I think that it's fair to say that anyone that's a creative force is actually enhanced by
00:03:09
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not having the ability to reach out to a larger external world and be forced into an interior space because of a natural event. It certainly was something that I enjoyed.
00:03:22
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Yeah, and I felt that in communication. I picked up on that. That was a good vibe. I liked that in thinking about, you know, that the path is now, you know, shunted over one eighth mile to the left and going that way or this way because of what's happening. Now, I wanted to tell you,
00:03:44
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and chat with you around this time and just to go right into a connection with a gallery display you have, which is bearing witness. And I wanted to tell you like my main connection to that off the bat, I grew up Roman Catholic.
00:04:09
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And there's iconography and things that you see. And I had such a deep attraction. Ever since I was a little kid, maybe it was the way that I was taught or maybe it was the sequencing to the Stations of the Cross. You would have painted glass windows in the church and going from one to the next. So when I saw the bearing witness in the Stations of the Cross and about
00:04:39
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your depiction and dealing with loss. I want to say this right off the bat that without having had the conversation and without seeing these works in present, it really has a lot of power to me in thinking about grief and loss as thought about this a lot and as a human, as a male of 51 years and just
00:05:07
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Anytime somebody's reckoning and dealing with these difficult matters, it just helps me. And then the connection with the stations for me too, I was able to see someone work
00:05:23
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online, but I know it's on display. Can you tell us about this artwork and the process for you to do this? Yeah, I want to start with what is probably the most misunderstood aspect of this body of work. This body of work, I did not have a choice in actually creating it. And what I mean by that
00:05:52
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is that this was the final agreement that I had with my life carers. We were married for 32 years. Now when she was diagnosed with a brain tumor, from diagnosis to her departure,
00:06:05
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was a period of 62 days. And in that 62 days, she literally manifested her theology to me. She revealed who she was and her understanding not only of her God and her faith system, but I think more importantly is her understanding
00:06:23
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of the unconditional love contained within the covenant of our matrimonial agreement. So when I say I didn't have a choice, what I mean by that is that not only was this an agreement, the final agreement between husband and wife, but it was also what would
00:06:44
Speaker
effectively be the conclusion of our matrimonial covenant. I was creatively consumed in producing this body of work for those reasons. Now, other reasons came into play. But it's very, very important to understand that this wasn't designed as a cathartic release. This was not designed as a means of me healing and moving forward through my grieving process.
00:07:11
Speaker
This was the manifestation of the final agreement I made with my wife and in that agreement that she would reveal her theology to me in a series of visions over her final 62 days if I in return would create a body of work whereby I would share what I had seen.
Encountering the Divine and Free Will
00:07:37
Speaker
I'm kind of speechless. Just the way you spoke about the agreements and the covenants and such is not a normal way of the discourse that I have a lot of times. And there's such a profound feeling to it. And even you talking about the choice wasn't there, that this was a manifestation. What was that
00:08:00
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What was that like for you? Do you feel you were reporting more? Actually, that's a very good question. Not so much reporting is...
00:08:15
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interpreting what I had seen. But it's very critical to understand that it's not just that I was interpreting what she was revealing to me in the depth, the really profound relationship that she had with her faith system. She was devout. But that these events themselves can only be described as
00:08:44
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miraculous that she was able to manifest these things in a very literal way. So it's not just that she was revealing her faith system and the fact that she actually, well, she was a mystic. But in my interpreting and channeling and coming to understand what it was that I had seen, that I
00:09:11
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had been exposed to the divine. There's no other word for this, is that she opened a door to the divine. Now that door is still open, but in the course of those 62 days, my relationship with the divine
00:09:27
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transcends any organized faith system to contain it within the understanding of that faith system. There are those who would argue that perhaps one of the things that she was doing was effectively some form of evangelizing, as in revealing the depth of her faith system as a means of me perhaps joining that faith system. That's an interesting argument.
00:09:57
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but it simply isn't true because what I saw transcends any faith system. It's too large to be contained. And so the divine in this regard is a superstructure whereby I see faith systems underneath of it as vineyards and each individual and their understanding of their God
00:10:25
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is working within that vineyard. In her case, it was Christianity, more specifically, Catholicism, that she understood. And we can talk about iconography because that is essential to the conversation. It was the language, the visual language of her understanding of her relationship to her God, whereby she revealed that
00:10:52
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in order for me to understand not only the depth of her faith, but to understand what it meant to be contained in the matrimonial covenant and the unconditional and reciprocal love that is inherent in that covenant. So many, many things came to play. I also want to add that
00:11:19
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Not only was my and continued relationship with the divine revolutionary in terms of
00:11:31
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having really accelerated spiritual evolution take place. But that evolution is also playing itself out technically in how I not only perceive myself as an artist, but how I literally now create work. So
00:11:51
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I have been fundamentally changed by this experience and am on a revolutionary transformation that is a result of this experience.
00:12:11
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and you're referring to Charis as a mystic in this testament in what you're being shown. What surprised you the most? This is your life partner. You would have an understanding of how they connect with the divine, who they are. But what surprised you the most? What's more surprising is the literalness of what was revealed to me. What I ended up having to do
00:12:39
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was referred to a liturgical calendar in order for me to understand fully what it was that I was being shown. Now, I need to point out here that there is also the conflict between Western medicine and their understanding in terms of methodical, measurable, statistical, scientific elements of their understanding of the advancement of the brain tumor.
00:13:09
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is not the same thing as what I was seeing in terms of her spiritual transformation. Charis was moving in between the world that we inhabit, the vessel that she inhabited, and where she was headed. And so things that could be explained in the really black and white science of medicine
00:13:33
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And that's good. That's what they understand is not what was happening. So I'll be real specific here is that early on, she lost her ability to communicate. She was no longer able to talk.
Charis's Mystical Experiences and Journals
00:13:47
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Now, the measurable aspect of that was the doctor said, well, the actual aggression of the tumor, it's in the right front lobe of the brain, which is the communication center.
00:14:03
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and is where your cognitive skills and abilities are held is now being damaged and therefore she's no longer able to talk. The reality is that she was no longer needing language because she was spending more and more time in this other place where language and communication as we understand it
00:14:24
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was not required. And I could see the tremendous difficulty, the tremendous challenge that she had as she was moving back and forth between preparing herself to leave her vessel and arriving at this other place, what I call the Great River of Consciousness upon the departure of her vessel. So in answer to your question,
00:14:55
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Not so much that I was surprised, it was the intensity and the literalness of what it was she was manifesting. I'm going to give you an example, is that in the course of the advancement of her brain tumor, she would be days at a time where she would be laying just in bed, essentially unconscious.
00:15:18
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And so I became used to, as did Renee and Brian, my daughter and my son and the friends that were involved in all of this, that there would be days where she would just be motionless on the bed. Well, I was awakened one night in the middle of the night because the room, the bedroom was blazing hot. It was absolutely just a furnace. And I was sweating and I woke up. And Caris, who had been laying still for days,
00:15:49
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sat up in the bed. This was the middle of the night. She was completely
00:15:56
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resurrected and there was this hot wind. I left the bedroom windows open and there was this hot wind moving through the space and it was stifling hot and Charis was resurrected and she turned to me and we made eye contact and she went to pull the covers off of her to swing her legs off of the edge of the bed to stand. Now she was too weak to do that. When I looked at the liturgical calendar
00:16:26
Speaker
It was Pentecost. Charis was literally manifesting the flame of her God. She was literally funneling her understanding of what Pentecost meant into that bedroom. And that heat and that hot wind and the stifling, just intensity that woke me up also resurrected her.
00:16:53
Speaker
I found myself having to refer to the liturgical calendar as she revealed these things to me in the course of the 62 days. So what I'm saying is it's not a surprise, it's the intensity and the enormity of what she was revealing to me in her inhabiting as a mystic, her faith system, which in this case was Catholicism.
00:17:23
Speaker
Wow, I, and I hate to just respond to by wow, but could you have anticipated any of this beforehand? No, that's, and I guess I suppose that would be the surprising thing. I knew that she was devout, I just did not know to what level.
00:17:48
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She also left behind many, many journals. And this was another interesting aspect of me moving through what I had to move through after she departed, is that I kept finding journals. They would be in dresser drawers, in desk drawers. And so all of these journals not only verified
00:18:11
Speaker
what it was I now had learned, but revealed even deeper aspects of who she was. And that all came to feed into what ultimately is bearing
Faith, Consciousness, and Creative Influence
00:18:24
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witness as I moved through the 19 stations, the 19 events, in order for me to
00:18:33
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literally create, literally understand and share what she had revealed to me that it was fed by many other things even after she was gone. There was a way you put a couple important things for me as kind of this
00:18:58
Speaker
I don't know, it's like a river, what's the term you said, a river, maybe a... Oh, river of consciousness. River of consciousness. And I wanted to tie that to another thing they said right after that, which had to do with the idea of the vineyard.
00:19:12
Speaker
And the reason I pulled so far on my head is one of these kind of goofy, almost goofy but profound parables I heard in Zen Buddhism was some Christian monks and Zen Buddhists. And they're working in the vineyard. They're working with the bees, right? They're working there. And they find that there's all these
00:19:38
Speaker
maybe esoteric arguments about God and stuff that's going with certain people and certain approach of religion. And then they recounted what their day was like as the Benedictine monk and the Zen monk. There was no difference in their day. There was very little difference in the language that they
00:19:58
Speaker
in their works and what they did that but that was different and a lot dissolved right within that and I here in River too because the river is obviously very used very in the Christian tradition but also entering the stream or entering the river within the Buddhist tradition of entering in into something larger like that so I really sunk in is sunk in for me particularly thinking about
00:20:28
Speaker
how somebody experiences their faith or how somebody thinks about their faith and that dynamic. Yeah, well, and also that's a really good point because there are those that follow their faith and never ask questions of it. And there are those that are in their faith, inhabit that faith and are constantly probing, are constantly wanting to know more about what this means.
00:20:59
Speaker
That is something that I've struggled with a little bit in terms of my relationship with Charis. And again, this is a very profound thing, is that I've changed so many attitudes that I have in the course of this experience. One of them is the nature of free will. And I felt early on that when Charis became involved
00:21:26
Speaker
with the Catholic Church that she was giving up an aspect of free will because she was taking on an institution that is known for dogma, and I mean that in a very positive way, not a negative way, but she's taking on an institution whereby, for my perception, she was effectively being told to follow rather than to question.
00:21:53
Speaker
She exercised the most profound free will you can when she determined how she was going to exit this world. When she turned down any medical intervention and said, whatever time I have left, I want to spend it in my body, in my vessel, in my home with those that I love. That is the most profound free will that one can exercise. So in regards to any
00:22:21
Speaker
attitudes or disagreements that I may have had with Catholicism, it didn't matter because in the end she determined how she left her vessel and that's as profound as it gets. So if I feel that free will came into play as the loss of free will in becoming a follower of a faith that wasn't necessarily
00:22:49
Speaker
asking or demanding that she have questions about deeper aspects of what that faith system meant. She changed all that. She changed that. Now, what happened in regards to when I started to move into the production of bearing witness is that I also had free will in the sense that I could determine
00:23:18
Speaker
the necessity, and not only necessity, but in a way the obligation of producing this body of work. But there was an aspect of me as a creative being that lost free will in the sense that what was being harnessed with inside of me was a much larger structure than whether or not I was actually manifesting the work as my own being. I became very aware of that.
00:23:51
Speaker
When I talk about the revolutionary changes that I made in the course of creating bearing witness and now that are actually very much part of who I am, all of that is directly not just influence, but all of that is a direct result of everything revealed to me through cares, of the door to the divine that she has left open and of
00:24:18
Speaker
the radical revolutionary transformation that I still am in because of what was revealed to me. I do want to point out a couple of things here. From a technical level, we were talking about sequential art and I consider myself to be a sequential artist. Now,
00:24:37
Speaker
Bearing witness is sequential. It's 19 stations. But it's not just sequential in understanding a narrative arc, which is what it is. The stations of the cross is a narrative arc. But what's as important to that narrative arc is that it's as much about place as it is about story. So that what becomes as important as the narrative itself is the context of that narrative.
00:25:06
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This has become a critical feature now of how I view myself as a creative being because I now understand a linear narrative moving from point A to point B that cumulatively reveals an arc.
00:25:25
Speaker
But within that narrative is a larger understanding of the variables and of the influences that go into each of the components that create that arc. That is a direct result of having been involved with bearing witness and now is a significant factor in the bodies of work that I'm moving forward in. These are all gifts
00:25:53
Speaker
These are great gifts. And I do want to say one more thing is that all of this is the product of the understanding of unconditional love. Now, I have had discussions with those that don't believe that there is such a thing as unconditional love. They believe that there is some
00:26:18
Speaker
price to be paid, some sacrifice to be made whereby one enters into a relationship with an individual and gives up an aspect of who they are in order to, I guess, compromise and therefore effectively move forward that relationship. Unconditional love as I understand it and as I have experienced it is a willful decision.
Artistic Transformation and New Projects
00:26:43
Speaker
And because of that, it's not a sacrifice.
00:26:48
Speaker
There is nothing in terms of having given up some aspect of who I am because it was willful and that I am now the beneficiary of that. Because when Charis departed her vessel, the unconditional love, the reciprocal love that she returned to me, not only as her caregiver and not only as the man that she chose to reveal her faith system to,
00:27:14
Speaker
But she wanted to return me to a place whereby I could now harness what it was that I had seen. All of these are gifts. And it is now my responsibility, joyfully, to harness what it is that I can tap into now with the understanding that it all has come because of this love.
00:27:41
Speaker
We're speaking with Philip Barish and speaking about bearing witness in far more than just the paintings, the incredible ideas and experience of art. I usually just ask, what is art? And you're happy to, I'm happy for you to answer that, but is, what's art for you right now? And is that different than three years ago?
00:28:10
Speaker
OK, I'm going to answer that question with what is now happening in my studio. And that's a really great question because it's the transformation that I keep making reference to is not just the transformation of me placed on a on a accelerated spiritual evolution as I was. It's also the transformation of my understanding of who I am as a creative being and how that understanding will now come to bear into
00:28:39
Speaker
future work. So before Charis was diagnosed, I was on a body of work called Manifesto Handhewn. And Manifesto Handhewn is, well, it's a manifesto. And it was designed as a means of me finally settling an ongoing disagreement that I was having between how I understood myself as a creative being
00:29:06
Speaker
and what was actually happening as a creative being. Now this, I'll call it a conflict, a debate had been going on for many years because my work is rooted in sequential art. Most people would understand that as comic strips is that, and I have a great respect for comic strips. My issue through the years is that I found regardless of the skill level of the artist,
00:29:36
Speaker
that were doing the drawings, that their work was basically at service to the text itself. And there's nothing wrong with that. But the conflict that I was having in terms of understanding who I was is that I didn't want my visual representation
00:29:54
Speaker
to be subservient to the text. I did not want it to be literally identifying what one was reading because I felt that that was not an equal relationship between the disciplines. So the only way that I could finally resolve who I thought I was and who I actually was was to create a manifesto. And so the manifesto would lay down
00:30:22
Speaker
Basically, in a document, my understanding of who I was in order for me to have a framework to move forward. The manifesto came to a stop when Charis was diagnosed.
00:30:38
Speaker
and I was then consumed by bearing witness. Now bearing witness, there are aspects of that that have the manifesto embedded in it, not by conscious choice, but I'm aware that those happen as a byproduct of having a major body of work that was nearing completion be usurped creatively by a very urgent body of work
00:31:05
Speaker
in terms of not only finalizing an agreement with my wife, but also the spiritual urgency that I was consumed by. So I am now back into finishing
00:31:18
Speaker
the manifesto. The manifesto is at this point there's nine amendments and there's four articles. And so it was designed as an open-ended document whereby I could add amendments as needed as I moved through being a creative being and therefore have greater understanding of not only who I am but a framework whereby I could push against. Here is what I'm learning being in the studio is that
00:31:49
Speaker
Up to the point where Charis was diagnosed, most of my work was really rooted in dissection of and exploration of intellectual ideas that would play themselves out sequentially and narratively because that's what interested me. What has now happened is I'm finishing the manifesto and starting another body of work is I'm pulling from the heart
00:32:17
Speaker
So I'm not saying that I've put my intellect aside. What I am saying is that this deeper awakening that is a result of what it is that I have experienced and seen and of the energy that I can now harness has put me in a position that what I am creating is drawing directly from the heart. Now, I suppose I could argue, meaning drawing from the divine,
00:32:47
Speaker
But I don't want to sound pretentious, even though there's truth to that. What I do know is that as I finish the manifesto, I'm effectively going to be saying goodbye to that chapter of how I approached things creatively and artistically, because the work that I'm starting after the manifesto will draw directly from the heart for
00:33:16
Speaker
as long as I'm making art. And I know this. There's another thing I would like to say because this is also an important part of the transformation that I'm now in. When Caris departed her vessel and left me the gifts that she has, one of the things she did effectively
00:33:34
Speaker
was she put me back to who I was before we walked into each other's lives. So the Philip Barish as a young man, a creative being 33 years ago, who has been dormant in some ways, who has been dormant necessarily because of moving into having been a father, having been a husband, all of the things, all of the minutia that are contained within a 32 year marriage,
Ken's Philosophical Reflections and Synchronicity
00:34:04
Speaker
that that Philip Barish has been reawakened. And the Philip Barish now that is talking to you is integrating who Philip was before he met Charis and had that 33 years and now who I am becoming. And that conversation and the integration of that relationship is also a very important part
00:34:30
Speaker
of what it is that I am now starting to create, because I'm not only connecting to who I was as a young, fully formed, independent human being, but I'm now connecting with that human being to who I am after decades of a marvelous marriage, of raising children, of being involved in all these different communities while making art,
00:34:56
Speaker
and I'm placed in a position where I can do whatever I want, however I want, in whatever means I see necessary, and have the great gift of tapping into and harnessing the creative energies that were bestowed on me by Charis' departure. In hearing that, and listening to your description,
00:35:26
Speaker
There was a lot of pieces, I was thinking about mysteries, right? The indescribable. When you had mentioned 33 years, the first time you mentioned, the time of our interview was 33-33. Oh, I love it. You know what that's called? Synchronicity. It was all, everything was trees. And so there was that. But I want to tell you something else which really interests me and given the way we're talking.
00:35:54
Speaker
One of my last recordings, since one of my last recordings, I went on a wild kind of tip in my memory. Like I mentioned, I grew up a Roman Catholic. I had never been to a private
00:36:10
Speaker
institution. And lo and behold, I was going for a master's degree in philosophy. I later did one in labor studies, but at the time I was going for philosophy and I wanted to teach. I love philosophy. And Marquette University
00:36:28
Speaker
I got into maybe two or three of the institutions I'd applied to. None about my resume looked traditional or overly impressive, but there was pieces about it that were like, what's up with this guy? Marquette gave me a full scholarship. Congratulations. Thank you. I'm mid-20s and such, very young. Never expect that. I'm a public school kid, public school rat. It's public.
00:36:57
Speaker
And so I was completely unprepared for my experience of a formal Jesuit institution. And it really kind of knocked me all different ways. I was annoyed by this. I thought this was amazing. But I just was jostled in this type of way, talking with my last guest. And a lot of ideas and memories have come up from that.
00:37:22
Speaker
So I finished, I finished, I worked for labor union. I finished this.
00:37:30
Speaker
duty, tour of duty, of representing workers for nine and a half years. I'm transferring to work with other folks as we speak. And so I'm going through my books in my office and some of them are dusty as could be, right? Like I had this nice law thing, but I had a copy of St. Thomas Aquinas, the philosopher of the Catholic Church. And I said- Today's his birthday.
00:37:52
Speaker
And today's his birthday. Let's keep going. This is not me hurts listeners So I so all right so why last night I'm talking to my partner Jenny and I was so excited by remembering I had the Aquinas in the Jeep It was raining out. I was tired. I was like, I'm not getting up. I was like I'm gonna get up and get the Aquinas volume Tomorrow, but I have not have not opened it
00:38:22
Speaker
blow the dust off, have not opened it and dug into it for 20 something years. And I'd forgotten I had had it. So last night,
00:38:31
Speaker
I finally got it out there, wiped it off and going through everything. And all this is kind of looking at my notes that I had written in Aquinas, my volume of the Summa Theologica of about everything in the Catholic faith. Just see what my notes were and just seeing the scope of the volume. I'm like, this volume is 1100 pages. This is the first half of it. I'm like, oh my goodness.
00:38:58
Speaker
But fond Aquinas, today's his birthday, but I never expected, given my background, that I would be the type of guy who would get excited about Aquinas. And I just always have, for the main reason is,
00:39:18
Speaker
He really helped me understand some heady thoughts and conceptions in the Catholic faith. But he also interacted and cited Islamic philosophers, Avicenna and Averroes. So he was cross-cultural, what he was doing. And I didn't understand one lick of Aristotle prior to learning Aquinas and having Aquinas teach me.
00:39:47
Speaker
about another philosopher. And so it was just really this wild experience, like I said, after half my life popping this open, it's his birthday today. So that's my story and my scintillating excitement about Aquinas, which would surprise most everybody that knows me unless they know me well. I found the volume
00:40:12
Speaker
On the campus of Marquette University is the St. Joan of Arc Chapel, which is a very tiny chapel. It fits about 14 parishioners. It was taken piece by piece from the French, reconstructed in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. It's a 15th or 14th century chapel, and the stone
00:40:38
Speaker
that was related to St. Joan of Arc is significantly cooler.
00:40:43
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than every other stone that makes up the chapel and they let you touch it. So that's right at the, so I think a mystery, Phillip, I think of like, for me, it's exciting, the mystery of why do these things come up?
Artistic Expression: Individual vs. Collective
00:41:01
Speaker
It's exciting to kind of be knocked around a bit. And hearing about you, you know, talking
00:41:09
Speaker
about your transformation and the transformation of what was revealed to you. I have a question related to the what is art. What is the role of art? And has that changed for you? Yeah, and actually, let's tie this in a little bit to what you were talking in terms of you being involved with
00:41:33
Speaker
labor unions. And I'm going to be very specific here. This is of great interest to me because not only what you do, but it also ties in directly to the nature of your question. So you and your position was concerned about the collective nature of who it is you're representing and that it's no longer about the individual, it's about the actual
00:42:02
Speaker
some of the parts and it's actually about the collective in terms of moving it forward as an organism. That's, I mean, that's how I would understand what your involvement would be. So when you're talking about art is that I was in Thailand with my son in December and one of the really kind of shocking enlightening aspects of that visit, we're visiting many, many temples
00:42:30
Speaker
and that these temples are ornate to the extreme and have been carved and painted and nurtured and maintained over many, many centuries by people whose names we will never know, by artisans that are absolutely at the peak of not only their skill,
00:42:51
Speaker
but also being able to parlay their skills into something that is iconic or representational of how they understand their faith system. So one of the things that jolted me when I came back, and I was only there for 10 days, but when I came back to the United States, one of the things that jolted me was the
00:43:13
Speaker
arrogance and the hubris and the narcissism necessary to fuel the ambition of artists in the system that we understand, whereby I had just come back from a country where it's not about standing out as an individual, it's about being part of a collective and whereby the cumulative nature of what it is that's being made, in this case temples,
00:43:41
Speaker
is an actual physical artifact. It's a physical symbol of how they understand their faith system and their relationship with their God and their spiritual nature. So it's not that I want to beat up on who we are as a culture here, but it was very striking to me to come back to the endless stream of look at me, look at me, look at me, and not
00:44:11
Speaker
have ideas contained within, look at me, look at me, look at me, just look at me to look at me. When I was standing in temples that were hundreds of years old, that had been painted and carved by artisans that were extraordinarily gifted, merely as a means of not only making a proclamation of their faith, but leaving something behind that would stand as testimony
00:44:39
Speaker
to that faith. So in a way to answer your question is that this has had an impact on me. And I understand the value of social media platforms. I understand the leveling of the playing field. I understand the ability for people to get out in front of audiences in a way they never had before.
00:45:07
Speaker
What I am making reference to is that the algorithms themselves necessitate that in order for someone to be validated, in order for someone to be seen or heard or understood, is it's just this constant stream of look at me, look at me, look at me, which is not the same thing as standing in a temple that is hundreds of years old
00:45:33
Speaker
and is now being maintained and cared for and nurtured by believers that understand the connection, that long linear connection between a faith system that stretches back for thousands of years.
00:45:49
Speaker
and how they live their lives in a way that honors and reveals to the larger world what that faith system means. This is very much coming to play a part in how I am conducting myself as a creative force. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that collective piece I think is tied really to
00:46:16
Speaker
and thinking about the stream of the energies all together. That's the way I experience them or tend to experience them. And I think there's a big conflict there, like potentially in an artist's head, because I think I do vacillate between that collective piece, but then sometimes
00:46:38
Speaker
You were pulled into this look at it because you think it's like spectacular or conspicuous, right? If you have conspicuous or idiosyncratic thoughts, you try to be like, hey, here's the thing. Follow this avenue. And I understand that, but it's that that's so busy. That feels so, so busy that it just piled people of like, this is the avenue and this is the way to look that
00:47:05
Speaker
I think I deep down, I do understand or feel more comfortable in thinking about the collective and what's going on and how we've contributed to something. I remember a book, a guest, I've had a good friend of mine, Michael Burns has been on the show. He was in Indonesia and he sent me through international mails.
00:47:28
Speaker
I believe the temple is Borobudur, or I might have the pronunciation incorrect, but a couple of the Indonesian temples, and I remember looking through and just seeing just things I had never really seen before, obviously in a book, you know, where you would be in person.
00:47:48
Speaker
I think one time I experienced that when I was at the Alhambra in southern Spain of this kind of collective beauty, distinct tile work, design and such.
Life Changes and Embracing Synchronicity
00:48:03
Speaker
Its scope is tough to describe, I'd imagine. And again, not even seen it. So you came back changed from Indonesia as well. Yes, yes, very much so. Yeah. And launched myself into my new life. I have a new studio, a new house.
00:48:18
Speaker
changed. Well, I sold the house that Charis and I had been in our last house together and I was no longer able to stay there. And so the reasons for leaving were the correct reasons for sure. Now having said that, I am the beneficiary of that change in terms of my life not only being radically changed, but I have a much larger, much more practical
00:48:45
Speaker
studio space. I am now able to really structure my life in a way that accommodates who it is that I am becoming. So returning from Thailand definitely was also a factor in that. It's all part of what I'm now understanding as a much larger
00:49:08
Speaker
reinvention. It's significantly larger. And earlier when I was saying to you that when we were talking about the birthday and talking about the 3333, I don't believe in coincidences. I believe everything is connected. The issue is whether or not we are able to recognize those connections. We don't necessarily have to act on them, but I don't believe
00:49:39
Speaker
in connections. I don't believe in coincidences. What I do believe in is synchronicity. And even the most minute kind of details that affirm or confirm any of those connections all cumulatively add up to this larger sense of being
00:50:04
Speaker
in and around and soon to be flowing with when we leave our vessels, the larger river, the streams of consciousness. I'm just very aware that when I see something that strikes me and I say, oh my God, that's such a coincidence. Or oh my God, that is serendipity.
00:50:25
Speaker
It's not, it's not. And one of the things I've learned about this is that when things do not go the way that I had planned them to.
00:50:35
Speaker
that that also is a synchronicity in that whatever is going to be revealed by it having not worked out will also reveal a deeper understanding of why it didn't work out. Sometime that can be for weeks or months before you understand that. But just in the understanding of that,
00:50:59
Speaker
opens things up in a way that I just had not been able to embrace before, that the connections can also be not only connections of affirmation, but they can be connections of why things have not worked out because they're revealing some deeper truth that will enlighten the reason they didn't work out. That's all part of a
00:51:27
Speaker
That's part of my process and who I am now. Again, it's just this revolutionary reinvention that I'm on and continue to benefit from and harness.
00:51:42
Speaker
It's exciting and inspiring to connect with, and I really appreciate that. Was Kerris interested or had studied mystics before? She was interested in the sense that she was very steeped in Christianity, for sure. And so any of the mystics that would be associated with Christianity, she did not see herself as a mystic, for sure.
00:52:12
Speaker
It took me in her final 62 days to understand that she was one. She was just very profoundly evolved. And the nature of that spiritual evolution, I did not really understand until
00:52:34
Speaker
She was diagnosed, and then in her final 62 days. And now, of course, I carry with that, carry that with, you know, my understanding of that. Having moved through all of that is she's fully integrated in who I am, and I fully have reconciled the loss.
Philip's New Project and Emotional Response
00:52:54
Speaker
And I definitely have fully come to embrace all of the gifts that I've received from that. And these gifts, again,
00:53:02
Speaker
They just keep on coming. I wanna let you know that one of the, so as I'm finishing up the manifesto, there's gonna be a companion series that's called All Souls, All Saints. And it's eight paintings that are my emotional response to what it was I bore witness to. And this is just Phillip. This is not me channeling and or interpreting
00:53:32
Speaker
what it was that my mystic wife was revealing to me in her final days, that this body of work is a deeply and complex understanding and relationship with and to what my understanding is
00:53:53
Speaker
emotionally from that loss. It will have the same format. It will be very similar, technically, graphically, to bearing witness, but it's just me. And so this is profound in a way that bearing witness is profound, except it's profound in the sense that I'm opening myself up and revealing inner truths that could only be exposed through loss.
00:54:22
Speaker
because that's what these truths are about, is that the things that were exposed through loss are the truths that I can now come to understand and reveal as a creative force. And I am starting that body of work as I simultaneously finish up what was effectively, is effectively going to be
00:54:47
Speaker
the last body of work both technically and intellectually that manifesto hand human represents. So I'm closing the door on that aspect of who I was as a creative being as I continue my journey in the now permanently open door that Cares left when she departed her vessel.
00:55:17
Speaker
That's beautiful. Well, tell me, why is there something rather than nothing? Because it's fundamentally how we understand ourselves in the lens of the human condition. If you remove the something and turn it into nothing,
00:55:45
Speaker
then what you're left with is an animal and we are not that. So if we do not continue to move forward and embrace and continually learn about the something, then what you have is nothing.
Connecting with Art and Creative Evolution
00:56:05
Speaker
I wanted to ask you, and I'm asking in a different way, noticeably so. I speak to a lot of creators and want to connect listeners and those interested to your works. As a certain sensitivity I have to that question here and all the things that are going on, I realize in talking to you,
00:56:33
Speaker
not having seen all the works in person versus, you know, some of the representations I've seen which beautiful and I investigated. But what is the best way for folks to come in contact with the work you've done in doing and also how will it, how you expect it to manifest in the near future in 2024?
00:56:56
Speaker
I'll start by saying that bearing witness has taken on a life of its own. It will be up at Peace Lutheran Church in Astoria in a couple of weeks. It was going to be, and it will be, it was canceled because of the ice storm in Holy Redeemer Catholic Church in Portland.
00:57:14
Speaker
And it was up at Grace Episcopal Church right after it closed from Astoria Visual Arts, where the exhibition originally debuted. So it's important that if one can see this body of work in the context of a sacred space, it dramatically alters how you respond to it. Having said that, is that I do have a website, dancingchatman.com, which
00:57:44
Speaker
I'm coming to, I'm building a relationship with what it means to have a technical presence. And I do understand the value of that. I also have an Instagram. Instagram is a very useful format for me right now. Because I work sequentially, I can roll things out sequentially. When I originally rolled out Bearing Witness, I rolled it out a station at a time sequentially over Instagram.
00:58:09
Speaker
which I then posted to Facebook. So Facebook is another way, Facebook and Instagram. If one can see the originals and can get to a church when they're in a church, do so, and I would have that information on my Facebook page. I'm also working on exhibitions as we move into 2024.
00:58:31
Speaker
That's what I would say, Instagram and Facebook right now, I rule these things out sequentially, which is really an excellent way for me to do it. And I'm learning to develop the relationship with technology because it is a necessary and useful thing. Yeah, you know, sometimes I have discussions with artists and
00:58:55
Speaker
You know, there's some very specific ideas being presented and how you see things, right? I'm very sensitive to how I see things and where I see them. And I think, you know, it's great for folks to be, and if you could see these, I very much myself look forward to seeing these works.
00:59:14
Speaker
in in person in a sacred place as well for the understandings that would very much help me and encountering them and I think it's so exciting to hear you talk fill up about
00:59:34
Speaker
thought and feeling and feeling a shift for you and a reconnection. As an intellectual academic at times and then also as a very sensitive feeling person, it's sometimes like, am I existing all in the gut feelings or am I trying to go here? But it just it helps me a lot as a creator to think about
01:00:00
Speaker
radical transformation when it manifests itself, or that I think folks can be affected in a profound way, but they're too scared to have it hit them, to feel, to feel how it rolls through. And I think in talking you and hearing about your experience, I find it truly inspirational and exciting
Personal Reflections and Gratitude
01:00:28
Speaker
how to engage all the ideas that we're talking about. And it's really exciting. And hey, I think this is the first time I haven't spoken with Renee on 149. Your episode's going to be about like 100 episodes after talking to both of you, and also to get in a sense
01:00:51
Speaker
a little bit of a knowing of you and Karis and your profound influence and estimation she has for you and talking to her. I just want to say I cannot be more proud of my daughter and I cannot love her more. Cannot do it. Yeah, yeah, quite, quite, quite a wonderful person. And, you know, my partner,
01:01:20
Speaker
has a living, breathing art on her body that's made manifest, so it's a really swell thing. So listeners, check out fill up on those platforms, but also if you happen to be
01:01:39
Speaker
in Oregon and then or if you're interested out there around and somehow maybe the exhibition maybe getting depending on you know a fill up in your openness to that saying I'd like to see this somehow or in some way let Philip know. Oh yeah absolutely.
01:01:59
Speaker
be really exciting. Yeah, always been a worldwide show with profound ideas. I got to tell you, hey, I got to get excited about Aquinas. I mean, I don't know what club that puts me in. But it's it's we've been waiting to have this conversation for quite some time. And I could could not be more pleased. Look forward to seeing a bearing witness in person and hopefully
01:02:29
Speaker
With you nearby or somehow in the in the very near future as we as we can do it Yeah, if you ever find yourself on a story, yeah Stop by and visit my studio. I know for sure I adore Astoria Astoria, I'm from the east coast in Rhode Island there's something about a story of me being from the ocean state in Rhode Island and some of the
01:02:55
Speaker
some of the demographics and ethnic groups historically of fishermen and some Portuguese background from my way. There's something about the field of Astoria for me that is as comfortable as any place I can just walk around, particularly in Oregon. It's
01:03:16
Speaker
I'm a big fan of a story, so the impetus for the visit is pretty easy. The only thing I want to say, we talked about a little earlier, but what you do is extremely important and that you are giving voice to all kinds of creative types and that you are doing it in a very informal, very conversational manner, which is the very best way
01:03:44
Speaker
to facilitate the exploration of ideas. So thank you very much for doing what you do. I really appreciate that. I was talking to somebody recently about the idea of self-promotion as an artist and as an organizer. So if I'm working, I'm promoting the union.
01:04:08
Speaker
If I'm doing my podcast, I'm looking to have a conversation without my podcast because I can't understand spending time creating something. At least me. I want to be like, yo, I did this. It's important. I think it's good. Can you get excited with me? And if not, that's fine. Somebody else will. I got that energy and I think there's something.
01:04:29
Speaker
There's something thrilling about art that just excites us. And so until the next time, Philip, everybody, Philip Barish, just a wonderful conversation I'll be thinking about for a long time. You got my brain going in a particular direction. It's nice to make these connections. And I very much look forward to seeing you out there in a story. Yeah.
01:04:55
Speaker
Thank you so much for your time and your energy and your thoughtfulness. It's been a pleasure. Bye. This is something rather than nothing.
01:05:21
Speaker
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01:05:42
Speaker
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01:06:05
Speaker
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