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09. The Triumphs and Heartbreaking Losses of a Dance Career with Jacqueline Moscicke
126 Plays4 months ago
Jacqueline Moscicke has danced professionally with Milwaukee Ballet and the Joffrey Ballet and is currently working as a freelance artist and instructor. She is also the founder of MSeam Apparel, a dancewear company she started in 2016 while dancing with the Joffrey.
Jacqueline gets incredibly honest in this episode about the triumphs in her dance career as well as the heartbreaking losses. We talk about the journey to being okay again after losing her contract and the identity crisis so common for dancers in a transition period. We also get a peek inside MSeam Apparel and all that’s to come in this next phase of life. If you’ve been struggling with not feeling good enough as a dancer - Jacqueline’s courageous story is a must-listen.
Key Moments:
- Early training [1:32]
- Joining Milwaukee Ballet at 17 years old after training at the school [5:42]
- A peek inside AGMA and the union process [8:13]
- Making the move to the Joffrey Ballet [10:54]
- Being let go after 9 years with the Joffrey Ballet [18:07]
- Shifting into freelance dance work [22:04]
- Starting MSeam Apparel [26:57]
- The future of MSeam Apparel [36:31]
- Her biggest piece of advice for dancers pursuing a career [38:50]
Connect with Jacqueline:
HER WEBSITE: mseamapparel.com
INSTAGRAM: instagram.com/mseamapparel
INSTAGRAM: instagram.com/jacquelinemo8
Links and Resources:
Career Transition for Dancers: The Entertainment Community Fund
Click here for one FREE month of Danscend’s Council for Educators with code BRAINY
1-1 Career Mentoring: book your complimentary career call
Let’s connect!
My WEBSITE: thebrainyballerina.com
INSTAGRAM: instagram.com/thebrainyballerina
Questions/comments? Email me at [email protected]
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Transcript
Introduction to Personalities and Dance
00:00:00
Speaker
just because you grow up somewhere or just because you think you fit in doesn't mean you necessarily do. And I feel like the personalities of the people around you matter a lot to how your day is going to go. It's so true that you all feed off of each other and there's always personalities that mix or don't mix and that can just change how you're dancing completely.
Meet Caitlin Sloan and Podcast Goals
00:00:24
Speaker
I'm Caitlin, a former professional ballerina turned dance educator and career mentor. And this is the brand new ballerina podcast. I am here for the aspiring professional ballerina who wants to learn what it really takes to build a smart and sustainable career in the dance industry. I'm peeling back the curtain of professional dance world with open and honest conversations about the realities of becoming a professional dancer. Come along to gain the knowledge and inspiration you need to succeed in a dance career on your terms.
00:00:58
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Brainy Ballerina podcast.
Guest Introduction: Jacqueline Mosaki
00:01:01
Speaker
I'm your host, Caitlin Sloan, and I am joined today by Jacqueline Mosaki. Jacqueline has danced professionally with Milwaukee Ballet and the Joffrey Ballet, and is currently working as a freelance artist and instructor. She is also the founder of MCM Apparel, a dancewear company she started in 2016 while still dancing dancing with the Joffrey. I had the honor of meeting Jacqueline. We are judging together for a equal dance competition and I am so excited to have her on today. Hi Jacqueline.
Jacqueline's Dance Beginnings
00:01:26
Speaker
Hi. I want to start just by talking about your beginning of your dance journey. Why did you take your very first dance class? That's a really good question. So to start at the very beginning, my parents first date was the turning point and they both have no ballet background whatsoever, but I just find it funny that that's how they started.
00:01:49
Speaker
When I was born, basically the first thing I said was that I be a ballerina. So it's always been something that I needed to do, not just wanted to do. And I started jumping off of things and they would have to bring me to the emergency room. And then I started first class when I was five years old. Okay. and What was that experience like? Was everything you had dreamed of? No, actually I was quite, f I was quite frustrated with the other kids because I took it so seriously and I, wanted to do everything correct. And I would be mad if somebody who was standing too close or, you know, was very serious from day one. And I wanted to always do more. And they had a company at the school that I was in and they always said I was too young. So they made a rule that when you turned eight, you could be in it. So I auditioned and I got in and it was really super exciting. My brother was in it with me. My brother did tap dancing. So we ended up getting partnered together for things a lot. and it was
00:02:49
Speaker
It was fun because the owner's children were also in the school with me at the time. So it was ah just a really overall great experience there. And to have a solid family introduction to dance was important.
Scholarship and Pivotal Moments
00:03:02
Speaker
Absolutely. And then you ended up moving to the Milwaukee Valley School to train, correct? Yeah. I took one year when I was nine years old and then it just wasn't quite the right fit for me at the time because my parents were worried about going on point too early and just wanted to take it slow because then it started to really go full blast and went back to the studio that I originally was with. And then there was another school from a dancer at Milwaukee Ballet. He had started his own company at 12 to dance. And that was really exciting because I got to
00:03:37
Speaker
take class with the actual dancers sometimes. And I was maybe 11 years old and getting to see all these professionals up close was a really cool experience. And then funny enough, one of those dancers ended up being a Joffrey dancer. And she was still in the company when I started at Joffrey. Wow. Yeah. it was She was my first point teacher, Valerie Robin, and very important person throughout my my life that we kept passing each other. And it's really nice to stay in touch. I love that. Yeah. How old were you when you decided to go to Milwaukee, LA full-time? So the second time that I was there, they offered me a scholarship when I was 13 years old, and I'll never forget it because I was at an outdoor dance festival in Wisconsin, Mackwan, Wisconsin, gathering on the green, and I volunteered for it every year. And the director of the school took me aside.
00:04:27
Speaker
and had an interview with me and said, we would like to have you back at our school. Would you be interested? We would offer you a scholarship. And I was, you know, obviously flabbergasted and just excited at the time. And, and it was nice to see that someone thought I was a good dancer and that really meant a lot to me. So then I was put into the proper level and they were doing a new nutcracker that year. So that was also a good incentive to be at that school. Yeah, absolutely. And what was that experience like for you growing up there? It was great. You know, I made really close friends that I still stay in touch with that did various other professional dance careers, not necessarily in ballet, but almost all of them have a job in arts still. So it's really interesting to see how all those kids took it seriously and it was a better fit for me.
00:05:16
Speaker
That was your first professional job as well, right?
Transition to Professional Dancing
00:05:20
Speaker
So what was that transition like going from the school to the company? It was actually really rough. i I had high expectations for myself and I was disappointed that I was older than I wanted to be when I was hired. Cause at that time I had heard all these stories about people being hired when they were 16 years old and I was 17 and I was, Oh, I'm so mad. I'm 17. But now looking back on it, I feel very proud. that I was able to sign that contract before I turned 18. And to me, that was a big deal. And I was an honorary trainee, which meant I didn't get paid. So that was kind of frustrating. yeah Then I got offered a second year traineeship and they paid me that year.
00:06:03
Speaker
And but I was kind of hoping to get into the company because I put my two years in and they were like, no, we could do another year because the first year were technically were honorary. So I just wanted to, you know, be in everything sooner. So to me, it was disappointing. But once again, looking back on it, it's amazing that I was able to get in the company and I know that not everybody gets to do that. So looking back on it, I was very lucky. but I always wanted to do more sooner.
Union Challenges in Dance Roles
00:06:31
Speaker
So what was your first big role at Milwaukee? um Clara, I was in it as a child. I think I was 16, 17 when I did it, 15, 16, somewhere in there. My last two years of high school, I did it. And then I um graduated from high school early to be in the company. And that year they transitioned directors and he changed it from being a student part to a professional part.
00:06:55
Speaker
And I got cast as Clara as a professional. And I was so excited because it's my favorite part to do. And then they told me because I wasn't in the union, I couldn't do it. So I had the part taken away from me. oh my god So it was really heartbreaking at the time too, because i was you know I remember that phone call. I called my dad in the bathroom telling him I got cast next to Jamelia, who was a huge deal at the time. she's still so amazing to me we're still friends as well because she ended up in Joffrey as well so it's kind of funny that so many of us crossed paths at both companies and to be cast next to her I thought was the biggest deal ever and then the next day to have that come crashing down was just a huge disappointment and I feel like you know the ballet world's like that you have those high highs and because you love it so much that
00:07:39
Speaker
even if it's the smallest disappointment, it feels like your world's crashing down. Cause that moment just feels so, yeah, it just feels like that is your chance. And it always feels like, what if I don't get another one? And of course exactly you will, but at the time it's like, this was it. You know, that's so true. Cause then I waited two years and I got cast as Clara finally and. And along with that, I got to be Snow Queen. So those were very exciting things to me. Can you talk more about, for dancers who don't know about the union process, kind of how that happens for you? Were you not required to be in the union? How did that shake out, I guess? Yeah. So the trainee programs, because it's technically furthering your education, that's not union. So you have to wait until you're an apprentice or like a first year, your company member somewhere to be in the union.
00:08:25
Speaker
And you have that initial initiation fee that you have to pay. And obviously, when I was starting out, it was only $500. But to me, that was a you know huge amount, because you have to get that in. But the union works with you. You can do payments and sort it all out. But I think it's really important to be a union member. And it's something to be proud of, because not a lot of dancers are. And to have more people get involved with that is exciting too, because now I see that some other companies are getting more on board with it and to have those five minute breaks and you know what to expect out of your week easier then. So that was nice. Yep. My first company was not a union company, but our rehearsal directors were from ABT. So they would still be like, we need our five. We have to schedule up by this time. And so there were certain things that even though we weren't officially the union with those kind of, um, perks, I guess, we still had some things that were like, this is how they had worked their whole eyes. And they still wanted to run at that same way, which was nice.
00:09:21
Speaker
I love that. And for those of you that aren't union members to know the difference too, that not every company has the same contract just because they're union. So at Milwaukee Ballet, we had six hour work days all the time. And with that, if you're not in a certain part, obviously you're not in that rehearsal. But at Joffrey, when I started, it was only a five hour work day and they could only have a certain amount of six hour work days per week. And because I was becoming more popular, by the end of the time I was there, all of the days were six hour work days. But when I started, I was like, Oh wow, this is so much easier. yeah It's a short day. So it's interesting to see how that works. Yeah. And that six hours is not including company class. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. Technically you don't get paid for company class.
00:10:10
Speaker
It's a choice, although, you know, if you don't take warm up, obviously that your body's going to not like you so much. And it was implemented so you could take classes other places and not be penalized for it. And I do like that because in Chicago, there's a lot of options of places to take class. Um, although we just all took class at the studio mostly. Sure. Yeah. So how long did you dance with the Milwaukee Ballet?
Joining Joffrey Ballet
00:10:35
Speaker
I was hired as a trainee in 2003 and then I left in 2009. But I was in the full company from 2005 to 2009. So four years. So it actually was quite short time. But you were there for salon. I'm sure it felt like like almost like your dance hall. Yeah. What was the impetus for the transition to Joffrey? That's a really good question. So I didn't really get a choice. I was let go. I've always had ankle issues.
00:11:00
Speaker
I had my first ankle surgery when I was 15. I broke my accessory navicular, which is that bone in your arch. I have hypermobile ankles, so I sprained them easily. And once that right one wasn't happy, it just had a lot of issues. And I had surgery and I didn't come back in shape to their liking. And that's a that's a thing where I felt one way and they felt another way. and I felt like I needed more time, but they needed me to, you know, do things a certain way. And I guess like that's always up to opinions, you know? So I was let go, but to me, it was funny because I was told I was going to be let go. Yeah. I still got good casting that year then. So I was kind of confused by it too, and hopeful that they would change their mind. But then come around January, when we get our letters of intent, it was still a no. So I had to go do auditions. Luckily, there was a couple of people that really believed in me.
00:11:57
Speaker
and said that, Hey, if you can't afford to do these auditions, I'll pay for you to fly out. If you need that, like we'll make it work. So I was very fortunate. And because I had been there, I must've been there for five years actually. Cause I got the, when you're in the union, when you're with a company for a certain amount of time, you get that payout at the end. And usually that kind of covers audition costs. If you plan it that way, okay that helped as well. I got very lucky that the company that I had really hoped for, hired me. So what was that audition process like for you? Did you audition for a lot of companies? Were you just like, I am focused on Joffrey? I did a handful of companies. I remember specific ones though. Nashville was a really good experience and they let me sit in on rehearsals and I already felt like a part of things. It was a very comfortable place immediately. Same thing with Austin Ballet. I had worked with the director in Milwaukee
00:12:52
Speaker
He came and set his ballet with us. And so I contacted him and he was very nice about the whole process. So I felt like every, everywhere I went, I was very fortunate that I was able to pick where I wanted to go. And one of them was Duluth in upper Minnesota. okay That was great. And it's funny because dancers from Milwaukee Ballet when I was there are the directors now. So it's kind of cool to see how it's changed too, but that that was a great option and ended up at Joffrey. And I did an open audition at Joffrey. Okay. And I think that was one of their last open auditions they ever had. So that was really exciting too, to see how many people were there and the excitement of being in a room with so many dancers and to see how people are getting cut and to make it to the end was
00:13:39
Speaker
Super exciting. And then where you offered a contract on the spot or did you just go home that day and kind of wait to see? It was a pretty sure thing. So they, they told me that they were really interested, but they had to wait until certain dancers returned to their contracts to see if they had an open spot, but that they were fairly certain that they were going to have a spot for
Feeling at Home at Joffrey
00:13:59
Speaker
me. So I had to wait until those contracts were due. I was in Nashville when I got the phone call. that I was hired so that was really exciting dancing with jorey how did that differ from fancy in Milwaukee Valley? Sure. That's a really, a really good question because I actually feel more like Joffrey is my home more than anything. I feel like I wish I would have heard this from someone sooner that just because you grow up somewhere or just because you think you fit in doesn't mean you necessarily do. And I feel like the personalities of the people around you matter a lot to how your day is going to go.
00:14:37
Speaker
It's so true that you all feed off of each other and there's always personalities that mix or don't mix and that can just change how you're dancing completely. So I felt more at home and comfortable at Joffrey constantly. And obviously that changes towards the end too, always because things change throughout history and, you know, things go in a different direction. And it's interesting to see how the dancers change when you look at companies and if you don't fit in anymore and that kind of thing. but I was there for almost a decade. So it was really cool to see when I started, there was still dancers that had worked with Arpino and there's only a couple left that are still there. So it was a really fun and great experience because it was part of that like original group. It was very special. What were some of your most favorite moments dancing at the Jaffrey? Oh, well, like my first moment dancing with them was great. I got in there the first week of rehearsals
00:15:35
Speaker
They had us rehearsing everything. And that was so cool to see that it's so different there because you do a lot of touring and you're not just focused on one ballet for four weeks and then another ballet for four weeks, which is how Milwaukee Ballet works where they have a 30 ish week contract, 30, you know, 30 to 32 ish and 25 dancers ish, you know, that varies, but it would be set with what you were doing. And then that was it. And at Joffrey, it was like, okay, we might be doing Nutcracker in August. Cause that's the only time we have to do it. Take a DVD home, figure it out. And then we were working on Gala, even though Gala is not until springtime usually, but it was one of the first things I rehearsed and I got to rehearse Le Coursera pas de deux with Victoria. And to me, that was the coolest thing. Cause it was just four of us in a room and to learn a pas de deux right off the gate was just super thrilling. And the first ballet I performed with them was Trinity.
00:16:29
Speaker
and it was at the Harris Theater outside with the candles and I still have my candle that um some of the dancers gave me for my first show and it was in a Chicago shot class. It's a really special thing that I keep with me but just the way it was so welcoming and you know that dance is such a group dance and it meant so much to the company so it's a really special one. They just performed it at the Arpino show this year so it was pretty cool though to see. It was amazing. Another favorite of mine though was but two two favorites. yeah In the middle, somewhat elevated, the Forsyth Ballet. So fun, such a fun thing. I sprained my ankle, unfortunately, about a week before the show, but I still performed. They just taped me up real good. and I pushed through it. I was able to still do the shows and did it on tour.
00:17:15
Speaker
But then I had to come back and have surgery, unfortunately, because I pushed it too far. But I never had the chance to perform it again. So in that aspect, I'm really glad that I pushed it because it was so memorable. And Bells. Bells was a ballet choreographed by Yuri Pazikov. And we were part of that original group that learned it and I know other people have toured and done galas with the potatoes before. So it was kind of fun to see and, you know, to see your name in the costume going out. And that's a really special ballet to me because my partner was Matthew and we always got along really well too. And he left the same year that I left. So I feel like we're bonded in that way.
Retirement and Career Transition
00:17:54
Speaker
Talking about weaving, how did you decide it was time to retire from the Joffrey? I know you're still dancing now, but what, what was that process like?
00:18:02
Speaker
That was really heartbreaking as well. Unfortunately it wasn't my choice and it was a really hard conversation with the director because I felt like things had always been going pretty well so I was kind of surprised by it. You know you always hope that you can change their mind in some way and I just wanted i just wanted like that little little extra to say I did 10 years fully or, you know, you have like little goals in your head and sometimes they don't see eye to eye with your goals. And it's pretty devastating to say the least. And I did a couple auditions afterwards, but didn't have my heart in it. I felt very defeated and unworthy as a dancer and unsuccessful. So it kind of ended it, you know, I felt like I should stop dancing. and It was very hard.
00:18:54
Speaker
That's really hard, Jacqueline. I'm sorry. You're fine. You can cut this part. Oh my God. I mean, this is real though. I think people don't realize. I think when you look at people's careers and you look at your career and you're saying you don't feel like you were successful, but you danced professionally for, you know, over 15 years, like a major companies, you've had a crazy successful career. And it's so heartbreaking to hear you say that because you know one person decided that maybe your time there was up. Yeah.
00:19:31
Speaker
you didn't feel like you had been successful anymore. And it's like looking from the outside and completely in awe of everything you've done and everything you're telling me and these roles you've danced and stories you're telling us. This is amazing. And so many dancers' dreams and it is heartbreaking. I think people don't realize how many dancers don't always get to retire on their terms. Yeah. And that's a really good point because I talked to so many friends reached out from all over and had said so many of the similar things. that they were obviously sad like I was. And yeah it's interesting because I wish there was more of a way to process that. I'm like, well, what's now? what Who am I now? you know yeah I feel like so many dancers go through that i identity crisis. yeah I went into my last season knowing it was my last season and thought, oh, i I know what I'm doing. I've made this choice on my own. I feel like ready. And even if I did feel ready, it didn't mean that
00:20:29
Speaker
I retired and was like, okay, now I'm ready. Like I really thought that in my mind. And then when it actually happens, I was devastated. I was pretty depressed for a while. I mean, didn't quite realize I was. It's really hard because not only is the thing that you've done your whole life that you absolutely love not there anymore, but your lifestyle changes. You go from being active for like ah eight hours a day to all of a sudden not and you know that messes with you and having this time i feel like i took for granted almost the meditative quality of a ballet class and just getting in the studio every day and having this focus it's a really hard transition for many dancers yeah and there's a ah place you're supposed to be able to reach out but but a lot of dancers don't want to because they're afraid if they reach out too soon that they'll get the axe it used to be called career transitions for dancers and i believe they changed their name now just a
00:21:22
Speaker
help dancers not feel like that there will be penalty in any way for reaching out to them. There's scholarships available for those that want to transition into something else and, you know, startup ideas for people, a path to go on. Like any athlete, I guess, goes through that. Your career ends at such an early age, typically, so that's rough. But I think that's why I still freelance, because I'm still looking for that feeling of, when will I be okay?
Freelance Dance Fulfillment
00:21:48
Speaker
You know? Yeah. What does that look like for you now? Yeah, I'm very, very lucky that I have a friend, Brian Grant. He runs a school out in Chambersburg, Pennsylvania now. He's given me multiple opportunities to dance with his company, Midwest Rep Ballet. They typically put on a show once a year in summertime. Last year I got to do Aurora and Sleeping Beauty. That was such an amazing experience and it really helped me process things and realize
00:22:16
Speaker
I don't suck. So, you know, you yeah that I really went through a rabbit hole that I couldn't dance. And then you start actually seeing it in yourself where you're like, Oh, that doesn't look like I thought it did. But now I feel like it's starting to look better. And, you know, my technique is okay again, but it's really an interesting thing. He helped me through a lot of that. So I'm very thankful, but I still do nutcracker gusting as well. So. There's a school in Illinois that's been very supportive as well. And it makes me feel like a ah good dancer, which is nice to realize that as long as I surround myself by people that believe in me, I think I'm in a much better head space as a dancer and I can push forward with artistry. And I feel like if you surround yourself by people that don't 100% believe in you, that it's harder to let go and feel comfortable.
00:23:10
Speaker
So I think that's my new path. And I think I found a couple of really good places. I'll be dancing Paquita this summer in Illinois. So I'm excited about that and with a former partner from Joffrey. And then I will be heading to Pennsylvania this summer and dancing Dulcinea in Don Q's dream scene. So. There's some exciting different things I haven't done before. than um Well, I've done pikita before, but there's no video of it. and Yeah. That was our era, right? There's so many things I have no record of. Yeah. I feel like a lot of dancers draw this line in the sand where it's like, if I'm not with a full-time company, then I'm not a dancer anymore. Yes. And realizing that it can look different now and you're still a dancer and you're still doing it professionally, it's just a different you know way you're going about it. Yeah.
00:23:56
Speaker
And it's nice to hear that from so many more people. And I feel like being open about it has helped me a lot because I know a lot of people would say, Oh, it was a mutually agreed upon decision. I know a lot of dancers that just don't want to talk about it and keep it very private. And I think I couldn't do that because I see it hurts other people that might have that happen to them in the future. And I, I don't think that Joffrey did anything wrong necessarily. You know, they need to do what they need to do as a business. And obviously it might hurt my feelings, but it's a business, you know, and I respect that. Yeah. When we're so tied to our dancing, it's it's not just a job. So part of us, and like you said, you knew from the time you could speak that you wanted to be a dancer. And so to have this moment in your life where you feel like, who am I now? How do I move forward from this? It's really, really hard. No matter, even if it's done in the most respectful, best way possible, it doesn't mean that it's going to be easy.
00:24:52
Speaker
And like you said, it's something that you're still kind of working through. And I think it's so powerful and I really appreciate you saying this. It can make me feel like, I don't know, embarrassing to talk about. Like, what are they going to think of me? And it's like, there are so many more dancers who've had this experience out there that we don't even know about. And just talking about it and being really open is such a powerful thing for other dancers going through it to realize they're not alone. Yeah. According to a survey of dancers conducted by Minding the Gap, 75% of dancers reported experiencing a mental health challenge in the past five years.
Mental Health in Dance
00:25:26
Speaker
To say dancers need mental health support ASAP is an understatement, which is why I am so excited to tell you about Dance N's Council for Educators.
00:25:36
Speaker
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00:26:29
Speaker
I know you want to give your dancers the best support possible. That's why I can't wait for you to get your hands on this resource. Tap the link in the show notes and enter code brainy to try Dance N's council free today.
Starting MCM Apparel
00:26:42
Speaker
You started your own dance for a company, MCMA payroll, when you were still dancing. So yeah how did this start? Yeah. So there's a lot of rehearsals at Joffrey that required longer skirts at the time, but they didn't have a full set of just like longer character sized skirts. So my friends were you know looking to have something made for them and then I started making a leotard for myself and I just wanted to feel more comfortable with a larger chest and like pretty still because I feel like sometimes
00:27:12
Speaker
You just get like a sporty look to you. And I wanted to still have that like femininity to me with a leotard and not have to wear a bra under it or feel like I have to cover up too much. Were you already a strong sewer or how did you learn how to make dancewear? That's a really good question. My mom sews and that was part of my scholarship growing up with one of the schools that I was at was that she would help, you know, in all facets of things. And one of them was costumes. So I learned how to hand stitch the two twos. and always kind of was interested in designing things as a kid, I would make like
00:27:47
Speaker
sandals out of a tricks cereals box. And because I wanted to heal so desperately. So took you know, like a little tube and a paper towel or something and made the heels out of it. I love that. So you've always been creative and like figuring out how to make things. Yeah. So did you just find a pattern online and just started making leotards? Actually, that's funny too. Because I have a really hard time following directions with patterns. And I don't like to use pre-made ones because every time I do it, I end up alternating things on it and, or altering, I should say, I alter the patterns and they just don't work for me the way that I want them to. So I've always made my own patterns. I do copy, you know, the sizing off of them. So I know certain dimensions that would be helpful for like Spandex because obviously you don't make it to what your size is. You go under because it stretches.
00:28:42
Speaker
but knowing those things helps from a pattern so that I don't have to grade it myself. This is bringing back memories of my senior year of college, costuming class. a And we had decided, we told our teacher we wanted to make dancewear for our final. And so I was making a sports bra because that seemed a little bit easier to me than a full leotard, but I was really not great at it. And I remember actually during the final, I sewed my finger through the machine and literally bleeding and I took my Where's my teacher? And I was just like, I don't think I can finish this. and She looks at it she's like, Okay, I have to give you a B though.
00:29:20
Speaker
um That's fine. I'm bleeding. And then I think she gave me an A minus anyways, because she felt bad for me. The effort. She was like, Well, you tried you left your you know, blood sweat and tears ah on the sewing machine. Yeah. and So I am so impressed that you're able to do that so well and that you were essentially self taught and make your own patterns is just really incredible. Oh, thank you. And I still am trying to learn specific terms for things. I just did a webinar last week where I was listening in on how you can be more efficient with your business and how to draw online with your sketching instead of having to do it by hand and that it doesn't really need to look perfect. So it was really interesting to hear all the different terms that they use though in the business that I was like jotting notes down on that more than anything.
00:30:12
Speaker
So you started making this dancewear kind of for your friends and for yourself and how did it turn into a full fledged business? So it happened quite quickly. There's a dance boutique in Chicago. They have two locations and someone had brought up my leotards to them. I believe it was a donor of Joffrey Ballet and they like to go shopping there and their daughter had worked there and recommended that they might be interested in my dance clothes. So we had a meeting. And it was a really fun meeting. They talked about a launch party and you know how it was all going to go. And they ended up carrying my dance line for a couple of years in the Chicago locations. And they still have it online. They don't have anything physically in store from me because after COVID, they just went in a different direction. So that was kind of tough, but um I'm definitely thinking about reaching out to other boutiques now that I feel like I understand how to
00:31:07
Speaker
do the business better because it was so brand new at that time. i don't think i you know You always make mistakes at first, and I'm still making mistakes, but I feel like I have ah more of a flow with things now. yeah What are some of the biggest things that you have learned through entrepreneurship?
Business Lessons from Dance
00:31:23
Speaker
How to price things and to have it sell tags. Tags are hard to figure out, surprisingly. You would think that you could just go have a tag purchased online somewhere, but it was a little bit difficult to figure out. design all those things and just search so much for like how to build your own website. And I know a lot of businesses hire somebody to do all those different things within their business, but when you're small, you don't have a lot of money to do that. So I was like trying to figure out how to keep the most majority of the profits within the family.
00:31:56
Speaker
and not need outside influences yet, but definitely learning how to delegate those responsibilities to other people is the most difficult thing because I i have a trust with just that tight-knit group. so I struggle with that too because I want things done the way I want them done, which maybe isn't always the best way to do it. like Someone could have a much better way to do it, but in my mind, it's just familiar. And so I want that so it's changes hard and yeah, letting go and it's hard but it's like so necessary for growth and I'm kind of going through those growing pains right now of wanting to delegate but being a little bit scared and not knowing how to get started. Yeah, the balance of it like how much can you afford to have somebody else do that kind of makes it difficult to logistically. Exactly. And and not being able to really predict exactly. Because in theory, being able to delegate, I should be able to hopefully increase profits because I'll be able to do more of what I'm good at if I can delegate other things. So that's like the idea. But who knows if that's how it actually will go and you can't really predict it. And so it's a little bit dicey trying to take that leap. Yeah, it is. Yep. I guess that's just like the dance world to
00:33:04
Speaker
yeah you you know You take that leap to audition and you hope that one of those gives you a job. That's like a good point. Do you feel like your dance career prepared you for being an entrepreneur? Definitely, because I feel like from day one, you have to run yourself as a business. And you know some people are a business. the way they file for taxes and everything so that's fascinating in itself is that even from age like 13 when you're going to summer programs and you have to be away from home at such a young age for a long period of time and you have to make sure that you're getting enough sleep so that you're dancing properly and you have to make sure you have clean clothes and
00:33:43
Speaker
that you're fed and there's all sorts of things that you have to worry about right off the gate. That's such a good point. I didn't even think about that. We're very mature at a very young age as dancers and you have to present yourself and know how to talk to peers and teachers because I'm sure you've experienced this where there's people you meet at Summer Intensives who become people you work with and they remember you. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's funny because there was a guy I had met when I was 15 or 16 at PNB for their summer program And he ended up ended up being at Joffrey and we brought in the photos from when we were kids one day. And it was really, really fascinating to know that, you know, 15, 20 years later, you run into that person and it's, it is such a small world.
00:34:27
Speaker
Isn't that so funny? My roommates, when I first started dancing in Missouri, she was the, can't remember what her official title was, but like director of operations of the company. And I had one of those t-shirt blankets and I had a t-shirt on it from when I was at Pittsburgh Valley Theater for the summer and had all the names on it. And she was looking at the blanket one day and she's like, we're both on this t-shirt. Our names are both on here. We were there together. We never met each other. I know we're roommates, but it's, it's such a small world. Like truly. Yeah. Wow. That's crazy. Isn't that funny? Yeah, that's great. So what has been some of your favorite projects that you have worked on through MC?
Special Projects and Advice
00:35:03
Speaker
Well, the one we recently did, it was pretty special. It was with a school in Indianapolis. It's a KDO kids dance outreach. And a friend that I had worked with in Milwaukee Ballet runs it. And they have all sorts of different programs that they do to give back to schools and to help a multitude of different children. So it's really cool to see how big it is and
00:35:24
Speaker
and how well they're doing. So that was a fun project. But other than that, I do i had to love hate with the tutus. I love to work with tutus and to make art. Basically, you're just creating an artwork every single time, but the tool is such a pain to work with. Yeah, can you say more about that? What is so difficult about it? So you have 10 plus yards of tool and you have to cut it at all different lengths. And the difficulty of it is that it's got to be about 10 feet long, roughly, you know, different sizes for ah everybody. And you have to ruffle it, ruffle or pleat depending on how people like that.
00:36:01
Speaker
And it just takes up so much space. What is the future of MCM apparel? I really would love to reach out to more boutiques and have our things in store in a wider range of states. And I would also like to focus more on designing myself. I would like to create swimsuits, perhaps like child, mom, dad, a wide range of family options. But that's like far into the future. Right now, I definitely stick to dance costumes and clothing but I do enjoy the tutu making too and that's ah something I want to keep in the mix of things but I really just want to focus on designing as a goal and maybe reach out to a manufacturer for the designs to do more of the boutiques.
00:36:44
Speaker
Mm hmm. And what sets your designs apart? I like that we keep things quite simple. And then I just have one print and it's our signature print that a friend from high school designed. We did a lot of work together and it's very special to me. So I like to have that one thing but for the most part, I like to just have simple lines, simple colors. And I think that looks very classic and neat, not messy. Yeah, I love that. And I love that what you said earlier about how you're designing it for different body types. Like you couldn't find a leotard you liked, you know, for someone with a larger chest. So just having that inclusivity is so nice too. Yeah, I like that. And I think down the line, I would like to do more like vintage styles. That always fascinates me, like maybe like a 90s stripe or something fun, you know, so.
00:37:31
Speaker
that just That just kind of crushed me hearing you saying that the 90s are vintage. I you were going to say a 50s style bathing suit. yeah That's amazing. good it's It's funny when you think about it though because what we think of as the 70s, which you know my parents probably were like, that's not vintage. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I love that. I think that what you do is so beautiful. And I love the company. And I just am excited to see how it grows. And I'm with you in those growing pains of entrepreneurship and trying to navigate all of that. But
00:38:09
Speaker
I know that we will figure it out. Yeah, and I think it's fun because with fashion I feel like the designs kind of grow with what I'm interested in. So currently I'm doing more sports tops and in that kind of adventure with it too. So maybe it'll follow with what I'm currently wearing. Yeah, exactly. Okay, before we wrap up, I would just love to ask you, what is one piece of advice that you would give to dancers who are pursuing a professional career? Oh, that's so tough. I guess I would say that just um make sure you feel comfortable wherever you are, like how you feel comfortable at home.
00:38:47
Speaker
or hopefully you feel comfortable at home, find that place where you feel comfortable because it might just be that you need to have a different environment. It doesn't mean that you're not good at what you're doing and there's definitely a place for everybody. Just how there's different musicals for everybody and different singing types. There's different dance types and if you want to do ballet, do ballet. Don't let anybody tell you that you are more a more modern dancer or anything like that. I think As long as you're following your passion, that's important. Yeah, for sure.
00:39:19
Speaker
Okay, can you tell everyone how to find you if they want to look into em seem and get some new dancewear or they want to reach out to you for freelancing or teaching? How can we find you? Yeah, so on Instagram, I'm under em seem apparel and our website is em seem apparel calm. We have a message button to if you want to send inquiries for questions about costumes. Also, you can reach me at Jacqueline mo eight like the number eight on Instagram and send us a message there too. And either one is fine because I'm connected to both. Okay, perfect. Well, I hope that everyone reaches out to you and you know in YAGP seasons coming around everyone you're gonna need costumes. So Jacqueline is amazing if you're looking for somebody for that. Thank you. Thank you so much for coming on today and for all of your very honest insight. It's really powerful for dancers and I really appreciate everything you've shared.
00:40:16
Speaker
I appreciate you too. And I think you're doing a great job at podcasting and your book and everything that you share. Thank you so much, Jacqueline. I will talk to you soon. and
00:40:28
Speaker
Thank you for tuning into the Brainy Ballerina podcast. If you found this episode insightful, entertaining, or maybe a bit of both, I would so appreciate you taking a moment to leave a rating and hit subscribe. By subscribing, you'll never miss an episode. And you'll join our community of dancers passionate about building a smart and sustainable career in the dance industry. Plus, your ratings help others discover the show too. I'll be back with a new episode next week. In the meantime, be sure to follow along on Instagram at The Brainy Valorina for your daily dose of dance career guidance.