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Squid Game (Spoiler Review)
286 Plays3 years ago
In this episode, Satsunami and Adam discuss the calamari colossus that is Squid Game. But after finally watching it, does this show get the green light from the Chatsu Crew? Only one way to find out!
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Transcript
Introduction to Squid Game Phenomenon
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to Chatsunami.
00:00:17
Speaker
Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Chatsunami. I'm Satsunami and joining me today to talk about, quite frankly, a calamari colossus that has been sweeping the globe right now is my fellow friend and or squid, Adam. Adam, welcome back to the show.
00:00:35
Speaker
Hello, hello. Good to be back. They say that good rain knows the best time to fall. A good chat tsunami also knows the best time to fall, I believe. That is indeed true. So yeah, as you could tell by that very subtle introduction, today we are talking about a show that has been pretty much everywhere, hasn't it? Pretty much.
00:00:54
Speaker
And honestly, I don't think you can go on the internet now without seeing this particular show being memed. That show, of course, being Squid Game, which has taken the world by storm on Netflix.
Cultural Impact and Personal Experiences
00:01:05
Speaker
I was about to say Other Places, but as far as I know, it is only Netflix. I mean, legally. Legally! Yeah, that is true.
00:01:14
Speaker
But we don't condone that in Chatsanami, because yes, we do pay for our very hefty Netflix bills, but if Netflix would like to sponsor us for this episode, wink wink, and shave a couple of pounds off, please do. We are very receptive to offers.
00:01:35
Speaker
Yes, all shows on Netflix are amazing. Wait, hold on, that's the... Yeah, that's the door. Yeah, that's... Yeah, it's a weird golden card posted through my door. I'm sure nothing can go wrong. Before we dive into, you know, Squid Game, because let's face it, loads of people have been talking about this show. It is absolutely fantastic. Everyone has been raving, ranting. Even people who aren't into, like, Korean media, like, you know, you've got your KU dramas, K-pop,
00:02:02
Speaker
and all of that. Even people outside of those spheres are getting into this show, which just shows how influential it actually is. But I'm quite curious, before we go into Squid Game, what is your experience with Korean movies and shows and things like that? Like, were you into them before Squid Game came around?
00:02:21
Speaker
So my experience with Korean media can be summed up with one name, Bongjunho. I hope I've pronounced that right. Probably the most, I think, well, I think definitely the most famous Korean director, certainly to an international audience, the most famous Korean director who's made films such as Parasite, Snowpiercer, Memories of a Murder. Yeah, so I've seen all three of those films. Basically, he is my exposure to Korean media.
00:02:50
Speaker
I mean they are all solid films to be fair. Oh they're amazing. I mean Parasite especially. Parasite like that was the... I mean correct me if I'm wrong but was that not the last Korean film that like swept everyone off their feet? Oh I think as far as I know anyway because that was also the first foreign language film to win the Best Picture Oscar and deserve it because it's fantastic.
00:03:11
Speaker
Oh yeah, definitely. And I think that's available on Amazon Prime. I'm not cheating on you Netflix if you still want to offer that, you know, I'll cut this segment out of the episode. But if not, you know, Amazon, ring us up.
00:03:24
Speaker
because clearly they need the money for us to promote them. But yeah, Parasite is just an absolutely fantastic film as well. I mean for me personally, I have to admit I've seen a couple, although I have to admit they're probably more mainstream. You know, like Parasite, Train to Busan is especially another fantastic one. Nowhere Man as well. That was a great one. Did you ever see that one?
00:03:46
Speaker
No, it's like I think it's a martial arts one or like an action one. It's probably a better term for it. And I have to admit, I have dipped my toes. I'm quite curious if you've done this as well. Have you ever dipped your toe into the like proper key dramas? No, my fiance has. She's dipped her toe into a couple of them. She's quite enjoyed them, but I have not.
00:04:06
Speaker
there were a couple I checked out and I've got to say there's a reason why there's tropes in them. That's all I'm going to say. Like Descendants of the Sun was like one... I think that was 2016 that came out that it was like everywhere because I was reading up on like before this I was doing research I'm not just an avid cage.
00:04:26
Speaker
I'm a fan. It's like, this is the Chatsunami exclusive. Satsunami comes out as a total k-drama. Weep. But yeah, there's been quite a couple that I have seen. Some of them are absolutely fantastic. Others have kind of sat through and thought, what the heck is this? Kind of thing, you know? And it is weird because it's definitely a medium that
00:04:54
Speaker
It's either I don't want to say it's like Marmite, but you know it's like it's either people like love them or they just can't get into them. I wouldn't go as far and say that people hate them but I can see why maybe people don't like them. I mean that there's a lot of like kind of very outlandish plots like one I'm kind of thinking off the top of my head. Our love from the stars was one that was like
00:05:18
Speaker
See, this is a thing that's like a time travelling alien or something that falls in love and it's like, huh, how do we get international audiences into this one? Answer. You don't,
Discovery and Initial Reactions
00:05:28
Speaker
you know. And then you get like other ones like Crash Landing on You, which was like a love drama between like North and South Korea. And that kind of got attention in the news as well because I was reading like
00:05:39
Speaker
This is me going back to my university days, Adam. I was reading through BBC articles of old things that were popping up talking about K-dramas, but it's like they have their 15 minutes of fame, but they never really stayed it. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, can you think of any shows, like other than Parasite, Train to Busan, or Squid Game of course, can you think of any kind of Korean dramas that had more than 15 minutes of fame?
00:06:06
Speaker
I honestly couldn't tell you a single name if it says everything. Also speaks to my ignorance, but also maybe speaks to their last, their staying power. Well, all I'm saying is Netflix. If you want to hear more key drama recommendations, then Netflix ring me up and I will advertise for you. Before we jump into the main topic of today, how did you actually hear about Squid Game?
00:06:30
Speaker
So I first saw Squid Game, me and my fiance went onto one of our many Netflix trips onto Netflix. And it was obviously just been released and it was like one of the featured things. And we looked interested and we watched the trailer. And this is the great current debate in our household about who didn't want to watch it.
00:06:48
Speaker
because I think she didn't want to watch it and she thinks I didn't want to watch it but for whatever reason one of us didn't want to watch it one of us didn't think it looked like a kind of thing we'd be interested in so we kind of left it moved on with our lives and honestly I kind of forgot about it and it was only through it's only through meme culture
00:07:05
Speaker
that I became aware of it then, and it resurfaced. And I saw all these memes, I was like, what the? I was like, oh, these are funny memes, but I have no idea what this is. And then I found out it was a good game. And then at the same time, my fiancee, I think, was speaking to her sister who really liked it. And so it was kind of eager to watch it again. So I thought, I'll give it a try. And yeah, that's how we fell into it. And do you regret that decision, Nor?
00:07:29
Speaker
No, no, no. I really enjoyed it, so no. Glad we did. I'm glad I got the push to... I'm not sure I would have gone back to watch it if my fiance hadn't kind of pushed, so I'm glad she did that. Oh no, it's definitely worth it. It's one of those shows that I think is definitely worth it to take the plunge on, because as I said before, K-dramas, from what I've seen on them, are not going to act as if I'm an authority on the topic.
00:07:55
Speaker
And then you asked lyrical about them earlier, so I think you as the foremost authority now on K-dramas. Well, do you want to know actually how I know so much about K-dramas and it's going to be the weirdest thing? It's basically I've got a friend who we both were kind of talking about because I'm very much into language learning.
00:08:13
Speaker
but Korean of all things is not a language I've ever really wanted to pick up. Nothing against Korean but just I'd be more interested in like Spanish and Chinese and things but I've got a friend to really into these K-dramas so every so often they'll you know message me and say oh I'm watching this like K-drama do you want to watch it with me like if I'm I've got free time and I'm like yeah sure you know let's watch like a couple episodes and honestly it's taken me like through like a loop
00:08:41
Speaker
You know, it's like some of them have been absolutely fantastic. Other ones have been thinking, what the hell? And the sense of like trying to boosan and that's obviously that's just friends that have recommended it or the case of parasite. It's because it's been so critically acclaimed that everyone says,
00:08:56
Speaker
oh yeah everybody watch it but for Squid Game I remember this friend had recommended it and they said oh I'm gonna watch this do you want to watch it with me and I was like I don't know and then one night I was just really bored and I saw Squid Game pop up and this was I don't want to come across as a contrarian by the way so apologies if I do like come across as Sat Tsunami the hipster here but I genuinely watched it like I think a week before it took off
00:09:21
Speaker
I remember I watched it because this is the weird thing about me. Because I do language learning and things, I watch a lot of really weird shows that I probably wouldn't otherwise. For example, one of the best ones is Money Heist or La Casa de Papel for Spanish learning and things. And that's a show I wouldn't have really touched unless I was learning Spanish, but fantastic show, but sorry, that's a side tangent. But for Squid Game, I was like, you know what? I'm bored. I've got nothing else to do. And then after the first episode,
00:09:50
Speaker
Bam, I was immediately hooked. I thought, this is fantastic. And I binge watched it in about probably two days, I think, give or take. Well, two or three days. I'll say three days to pretend I'm a productive member of society. And yeah, I absolutely loved it. I remember actually looking up to see if anyone else was talking about it.
00:10:10
Speaker
And at the time, nobody was talking about it. It was very silent. The memes were very sparse. There was nobody talking about it. And I'm like, oh, that's a shame, but that was a good show. I can't wait to be that, you know, annoying friend at the party to be like, hey, have you checked out Squid Game? It was a good one.
00:10:26
Speaker
But then, all of a sudden, the week after, it just blew up. It was everywhere. You couldn't turn on your computer without seeing Squid Game, or the people in the PlayStation masks, or the cards, or the people re-enacting the challenges and things. Sorry, that was just a really long way of telling you.
00:10:45
Speaker
Yeah, it was just a weird experience seeing a show that I'd picked up thinking, oh, this is a great show, but I don't think people will really be into it. And then all of a sudden, it's like a national television in the UK as well. I mean, it's all over the place. I honestly can't overstate that enough. It's everywhere.
00:11:05
Speaker
But, I mean, even my family. Like, my family aren't the biggest fans of, like, trying shows like Squid Game. You know, they enjoyed Parasite, but, you know, I don't think that would be one they would actively look for, if you know what I mean. Yeah, they wouldn't, like, say, oh, let's watch this one. But, yeah, no, they absolutely loved it. They watched it. They loved it. Although, my mum did say she thought it was a bit gory. Which I thought, okay, that's fair enough. But, yeah.
00:11:30
Speaker
No, it's just as weird to see it blow up in popularity. But without any further ado, will we jump into why this show is so successful? Let's go for it. Okay, and before we do, as always, we will be right back after these messages from our very favourite VIPs.
Plot Summary and Themes
00:11:47
Speaker
Welcome to Shatsunami, a variety podcast that talks about topics from gaming and films to streaming in general interest.
00:11:55
Speaker
Previously on Chatsunami, we discussed Game of the Decade, Deadly Premonition, the romantic thriller, Birdemic, and listen to us get all sappy as we discuss our top 5 Christmas films. If that sounds like your cup of tea, then you can find us an anchor, Spotify, YouTube, and opiate podcast apps. As always, stay safe, stay awesome, and most importantly, stay hydrated.
00:12:19
Speaker
We are Beer and Chill Podcast. Podcast where we review TV shows, games, movies and whatever else takes our fancy. So what are you waiting for? If you're a cool kid like us, you're gonna listen to the Beer and Chill Podcast. You can get it anywhere from Spotify all the way to your grandmother's radio. My name is Jan. And I'm Craig Yisi. And we are Beer and Chill.
00:12:54
Speaker
and thank you once again to the VIPs for bringing us those messages. So yeah, let's dive into Squid Game. Before we talk about the good and bad points and a particular episode that you and I are absolutely chomping at the bit to actually get to, what were your first impressions of this show?
00:13:12
Speaker
It certainly was very striking. I thought the first episode was really good at like hooking me in because I was like, you know, watching, I was like, well, I really want to see this. I want to see how this plays out. It gives you, it gives you a really good cast of characters. You might not, you might not necessarily like them all at the beginning, but it at least gives you like a defined set of people that you, you know, like you can identify and you want to see what happens to them. So yeah, I thought it was a really good, like first thing I was really drawn into it. And I just thought, wow, this does feel like something but different, you know, to my usual fair.
00:13:42
Speaker
I completely agree with you. I think that the characterisation was done fantastically and it really like drew you into the struggles of these characters because that's the thing with, and again, I'm putting my card down. I am not like an avid k-drama fan.
00:13:58
Speaker
or anything because you know there's obviously there's different like genres within it but for like a lot of the shows that I've seen in the past whether it's action or whatever it takes like a while for the gears to kind of start rolling it's the same with any other Netflix show like if you ever watched a Netflix show that everyone's been raving about and it just it takes ages for it to go anywhere I feel I must have I must admit I'm blanking on I'm not all the best at following popular trends but I must have like I can't believe I haven't
00:14:27
Speaker
mean there will be a couple but like yeah there are shows that like especially me like again I can't think of any of the top I made either but there have been like shows where I've watched it and thought okay this is going nowhere just click off you know I'm not watching I'm not wasting my time like one of our mutual friends I'm not gonna say he's bad for it but he's very much in the camp of
00:14:51
Speaker
Oh, this show gets good after the, I don't know, 50th season or something. Just if you stick with it and you think, yeah, no, there's no way. Why don't we learn that that is the worst argument for light? Because you hear this about games so often. It's like, oh, 30 hours and it gets really good. When are people going to learn that is the worst argument you can use?
00:15:12
Speaker
There are some minor exceptions, but there's a reason why there are minor exceptions because a few far between. It's probably true, it probably does get good after it, but as an actual argument for somebody to watch or play something, it is the worst.
00:15:29
Speaker
Yeah, oh absolutely. I mean there are shows that I've seen that are like hour long, 18 episode seasons or even worse like 24 or something and you're just sitting there fast forward and thinking, right okay get to the point, get to the point. And I think that is one of the strengths of this series because it's only got nine episodes to tell a self-contained story. And something I found interesting as well is the episodes aren't the same length. Have you noticed that? They do better, don't they?
00:15:56
Speaker
like episode 8 especially that's only about 32 minutes long compared to like the one before it which is like 40 odd minutes which it's just as weird seeing that in the show like this because usually you'd expect it to be very you know consistent and very much like
00:16:13
Speaker
we're going to be 45 to 50 minutes and I have seen shows like that where I'm just like oh this is this is far too long but I think the show definitely knows when to cut its losses like it doesn't drag on and say for the most part it doesn't drag on and say oh this is what we're gonna do and yeah it is good at that it's good at kind of telling a short and succinct like story well I wouldn't say succinct but definitely a short enough story that keeps you hooked throughout the entire thing
00:16:42
Speaker
it does leave you a lot of breadcrumbs to kind of pick on. Like enough mystery to keep you intrigued rather than just saying oh yeah everything's kind of wrapped up in a neat bowl. Which it is technically but before we go into you know like our good and bad points I just want to warn everyone that we will be going into spoiler territory from now on and you probably have seen the memes, you've probably seen the jokes online and things
00:17:08
Speaker
but if you are listening to this and you still haven't watched squid game first of all what are you doing go watch squid game in fact pause this episode go watch even the first episode come back in fact no sorry watch the full thing and then come back and listen to this and also if you want to hear like a non-spooky
00:17:24
Speaker
spoiler review of this, then you can check out our Chatsu Shorps episode. It's only a 10 minute bitesize review of the show, but if you want to hear our opinions of it, then please feel free to listen to that. But from now on, we're going into full spoiler territory. Let's dive in. So before we get into the good and bad points of this series, we probably should explain what Squid Game is about. So Adam, as is probably on brand for Chatsunami, would you like to explain what this show's about?
00:17:52
Speaker
So this is the game one for me. The squid game is about a contest that takes place involving over 400 pretty desperate individuals, mostly South Koreans, but also there is a there is a North Korean in there who are competing for a large cash prize, a very, very, very large cash prize. And what they must do is they have to play six different games, which are say loosely based around kind of
00:18:17
Speaker
Korean children's games. There are international equivalents of a lot of them. And basically the catch is that if you fail at any of the games, then you're killed off. And it's a very shadowy kind of organization that are running the games.
00:18:33
Speaker
Basically, the contestants are all these really desperate individuals who are mostly deeply in debt or desperately need a large amount of money for some purpose. The show runs through the whole six rounds of the games and we get to meet these characters and see their struggles and watch as the contestants get picked off one by one for the amusement of a certain group of people. No, that's a good summary to me.
00:19:05
Speaker
Yeah, this is a question of the episode. Does Adam pass? Yes or no? I'm going to die. I'm going to put a big green button in the red X. All we need to do now is get 456 people to listen to this episode and then just vote.
Character Depth and Visuals
00:19:25
Speaker
Oh no, sorry, probably half of that considering what happens. But you know what? You know what? I mean, the heart's there.
00:19:30
Speaker
somewhere. I don't know where, but the heart's there. But yeah, no, you're completely right. It follows the struggles of several very desperate individuals who are there because of their financial woes, and I honestly think that that's one of the strongest parts of the show. And I feel as if this is something that has been explored in some of our things like
00:19:51
Speaker
had a site, especially recently, the ideas of like, you know, kind of class struggles and, you know, that it's social inequality and things. And you see people, this is something I loved about it, it's the fact that you saw, like, so many different people in the squid games, or in the squid game. Like, it wasn't just all of these people were like, you know, down on the
00:20:12
Speaker
Well, they were down in the lot considering what happens. But what I'm trying to say is it's not like they were all from similar backgrounds. There was reasons. As you pointed out before, there's a woman who just wants to get enough money to get her mother out of North Korea. There is a gangster who just wants the money because he has been filling his own pockets with his boss's cash.
00:20:34
Speaker
So he needs to find a way to repay him. We have the man, the myth, the compulsive gambler himself, Guilin, who is pretty much the main character, I wanna say. The focus of the story is mainly told through his eyes. For the most part, there's a couple of diversions. But yeah, for the most part, it's told through his eyes. You've got his childhood friend, Sang-woo, who did you know he went to Seoul National University? Apparently the only man to ever go to Seoul University business.
00:21:04
Speaker
Exactly, because I didn't know he went to Seoul National University. Yeah, that is something that definitely comes up far too much. But you know, it's like it shows you all these different backgrounds is what I'm getting at. Of course you've got Ali as well, which I have to admit I was surprised by his inclusion in it in like a very good way. What did you think about that?
00:21:25
Speaker
So it was a real surprise because, again, not knowing, speaking of myself, not knowing much about like South Korea and it's sort of like ethnic makeup, like, you know, it was it was really interesting to see a character like Ali and get a look into like kind of demographics of South Korea. So, yeah, it was really it was really surprising, but really good, really good inclusion.
00:21:44
Speaker
I think I was watching behind the scenes stuff just about the show itself and that's what they were saying, that they were finding it really difficult to find someone who wasn't Korean but could speak fluent Korean at the same time. And they managed to get Ali's actor who apparently is really fluent in Korean and he was able to come on the show and things.
00:22:05
Speaker
It adds a lot, I think, to the show because, again, it kind of, like, emphasises that point of it's just everybody in this huge melting pot of desperation. This idea that nobody, or that's really one of the central themes, isn't it? The idea of equality.
00:22:21
Speaker
I'm saying that in the most twisted way possible, but equality in terms of the games themselves, it doesn't matter where they're coming from. The main thing is that they're coming for the same prize. They all want the money to make their lives better, and of course...
00:22:38
Speaker
Well, they don't realise what the actual game is. Oh boy, they get quite the fright. The old whoopsie doodle, dare I say, as soon as they realise what's going on. And I mean, this show does get brutal, doesn't it? It's not afraid to shy away from certain things like that. No, the violence is very much to the forefront, and yeah, it is very brutal. Yeah, and that's a consistent thing, basically throughout the whole thing. I mean, that is a very visceral
00:23:08
Speaker
experience, isn't it? If you're not into violence and gold and that kind of... Well, I wouldn't say it's necessarily gold. There is one scene, kind of more of a subplot, where it's revealed that some of the guards are harvesting organs. I think that's probably the goldiest it gets. Probably. Yeah, that probably is.
00:23:31
Speaker
Yeah, like, don't get me wrong, that is still gory, but I wouldn't say it's like, sore levels gory. One thing I'll say is that the violence in Squid Game never seems gratuitous. Like, it serves a purpose, and I think to an extent it is necessary. You know, that might put some people off, and that's fair enough, if it's not your thing, then it's not your thing, but for me anyway, watching it, I never felt like it was an unnecessary level of, it was just there for like, it is shocking, but it's not there for just pure, like, shock value, if that makes sense.
00:24:00
Speaker
I mean, it doesn't seem as if it's overblown. Like, that's the thing. In a lot of these games, usually they're just like taken out and just shot in the head. You know, it seems like a very quick death. You know, like once you get eliminated, because they could have easily gone down the kind of soul route where it's like, oh if you lose the game then you're taken to like a dark room and tortured or something or, you know, like unspeakable things happen. Like, they really just shoot them and that's it, you know, it's like that's the end of it. They don't
00:24:30
Speaker
kind of, I mean there's one or two exceptions where like some people survive and I think that's like quite shocking where it's like you think oh someone's still alive but because they've been eliminated from the games they're still going in that coffin it's still getting incinerated it's like oh boy oh boy this him
00:24:46
Speaker
this this is awkward but can I just say like how visually well I don't know if stunning is the right word but just how visually impressive this show is I don't know maybe this is just me seeing it through rose tinted glasses but did you feel as if see the real world and I mean that's all in the real world but you know when they're outside of the games did you ever feel as if the color palettes and things were quite dim
00:25:11
Speaker
Oh, definitely. I think that's one of the great... I actually would use stunning to describe the visuals of this, and you're completely right. Whenever they're in the quote-unquote real world outside of the games, it is very dark. I love it shot at night as well. I love it dark and it's very dingy. The places they're living in are quite dirty and dank.
00:25:32
Speaker
but then when you go into the when you go into like a lot of elements of the game there's a lot of like kind of clean stairway well to begin with at least anyway you know kind of sterile and there's a great like kind of central chamber which is all these stairs painting these different colors and it's based off that MC Escher painting I forgot what it's called now but it's the one with like the stairs that are all going like different directly on like somewhere like right way up somewhere like upside down somewhere on their side I can't remember the name of the painting at all but it's it's that you'd know if you saw it and it's based on that it's a really stunning
00:26:00
Speaker
I think what really works well in this film is the color, like a lot of the colors they use especially, so like all the contestants are in this kind of like turquoisey green, turquoisey green jumpsuits, while like the kind of guards and like staff running the games are all in this like kind of like hot pink.
00:26:16
Speaker
and they're like very striking colours together and then as well like a lot of the sets as well are fantastic not just like the staircase but a lot of like where the games take place are really cool environments and I think one thing to this credit for this show is they didn't use much special effects they didn't use much like special effects or CGI for the most part it is real sets and in fact that all that like they actually got like so the first game involves 456 people and there are 456 actors
00:26:41
Speaker
actors there. There's no digital cloning to enlarge a crowd. It's all real people and it gives us this scope and the scale. I think it's really impressive. And I've been going back to what you said about the, I guess the lobby, you would call it. I remember seeing that for the first time and just
00:26:56
Speaker
I was actually taking a back at how impressive it looked because this is one of the things I do love about this show it's the kind of I guess juxtaposition is maybe the right word you know between like the seriousness of the nature it's all these adults that are all desperate and they're going into literal children's games but then there's like so many brutal consequences of that so you've got like bright and colorful you know environments you've got you
00:27:23
Speaker
You know, just, it seems like this kind of world. Something that you have probably seen like an 80s Disney film. Where it's like the kid that grows up. A bit like Big, you know? Where it's like the kid that kind of grows up and it's like, oh, I'm, you know, a kid in a candy store or whatever, you know, I'm in this like huge playground. Thank you, Richie Rich, but more guns.
00:27:44
Speaker
It's like this kind of childhood dream, but then it's contrasted severely with this visceral brutal violence of them getting shot, getting dropped from a height, actually twice they get dropped from a height, shot in the head twice. Just that whiplash of, oh my god look at the colours too, oh my god it's red now. And I think that's done brilliantly, it just shows the warped mentality.
00:28:09
Speaker
And what I loved as well, and you're gonna hear me say that a lot in this, your apologies, but what I loved as well was the kind of like dangling of the carrot theme, because I know the director is very like vocal about saying this is like a, is deconstruction the right word or kind of like a critique of capitalism?
Character Arcs and Themes
00:28:30
Speaker
Yeah it's like this kind of critique of saying you know or rather showing these people who have been forced into this like desperate situation because of the financial worries and you know it is just that it's like brutal but at the same time these people are saying oh but guess what there's also a clause in it that says that technically if everybody doesn't want to be there then you can vote to go out and that's what happens in the second episode and I was really surprised at that
00:28:58
Speaker
Because I thought the whole show was, oh it's just going to be in the game throughout the rest of the show. But it wasn't. They actually get out. And I think that's kind of the sickening thing because a lot of them volunteer to return because they're so desperate and they've got no other options left. They have to return to this absolute hellscape. And I think it's fantastic, the way it's done. That kind of desperation and that kind of sickening feeling almost. Did you feel that way?
00:29:25
Speaker
that was like the main theme of this was like the theme of desperation and I think it's something that the show does so well and captures so well of like you said that these are people like from very different walks of life but like they all have one thing in common they're absolutely desperate yeah you know for whatever reason it is and the show captures that so well and you see that and like tying back into as you said like I think the real strength and you
00:29:47
Speaker
you said it right at the beginning, is the characters and the actual character development. Those two things intersect in tying together so well. You see these desperate individuals and you see the lengths that they'll go to to alleviate their absolutely ruinous financial state, the depths they'll go to just to survive and just to carry on and get another chance to play the next game. I think that comes across so well and that is the real strength of the show, I would say.
00:30:14
Speaker
And I mean, as you were pointing out about the characters, the development of them is absolutely fantastic. I honestly did a—this is going to sound terrible, but for Guillen especially, I did a complete 180 on how I felt about him. I don't know how you felt, but at the very beginning, I really did not like him. I thought he was rude, he was abrasive, he was horrible to his mother. I mean, that's bad enough, you know? He wasn't a very good dad. Like, did you feel that way as well?
00:30:43
Speaker
I felt exactly the same way because that's how he's portrayed. He is immature when we first meet him. He's so immature and irresponsible. I don't think you're meant to like him when you first meet him. He really is. He really is. It doesn't seem like a nice person at all. But we get to see so much more. And what I think was so good about this show was it actually built very layered characters.
00:31:03
Speaker
You know, there are people who do pretty awful things in this, but for the most part, and this is how I felt anyway, I don't think that you can fully hate. There's one character, there's one like the gangster character who you don't really have anything for, but that's fine. I would say for most of the other main characters though, even some of them that do like really despicable things, and I'll point at my favourite character in the show, Sang Woo, and like, he does some pretty awful things.
00:31:28
Speaker
Actually, as the game goes on and they get towards the later rounds, he starts doing really, really horrible, despicable things. But I could never fully hate him because I could completely see why he was doing these things, where he was coming from. And I think that's a real strength of the show in that as much as I was angry at what he did and I was shocked by it, I was like,
00:31:51
Speaker
well you know like i can't fully condemn him because i'm pretty sure a lot of people would probably resort to that if they found themselves in that situation and his character is the one that stands out so much because a lot of them a lot of the contestants in the show are from like the kind of lower lower strato society thing but sangwoo is as we joke about he is like you know he's a
00:32:11
Speaker
he's gone to like the national university and you know he's like one of the top students there and he's a great like businessman and everything and then he's just like like like Ji Yun is a gambler, is a gambling addict and so is Sang Woo but just in like a very different sense he's made some terrible investments.
00:32:28
Speaker
and owes an absolutely ridiculous amount of money. And in the process of his investments, he's used his mother's home, his mother's shop as collateral. So he's not only destroying his own life, but also the life of his family. And so he desperately needs this money to right these wrongs. And so everything he did, the back of my mind was always, oh, I can see why.
00:32:51
Speaker
And that's why I thought it was such a strength of the show. To make these characters, to make them do horrible things but you can never fully turn on them because they are human beings, they feel like real characters. I think he hit the nail on the head to there. It's kind of ironic in a way because later on you find out the
00:33:11
Speaker
whole show's been run by this kind of rich shadowy cabal. Really, to borrow a phrase from you, from the last episode, but it is, isn't it? It's just these rich people who just want entertainment. But the kind of ironic thing is, I'm not saying we are rich people who would organise death games.
00:33:28
Speaker
more the fact that we are the ones that are kind of watching this unfold and it's easy enough for us to kind of sit here and go or not us in particular but for people to say oh if I was in the squid game I would do this or that or you know kind of in hindsight you know it's like complete captain hindsight of oh if I was in I would do this or that but that's the thing though you have to factor in that kind of element of human nature
00:33:52
Speaker
Yeah, that kind of fight or flight adrenaline getting pumped into them. You don't know how you would react, you don't know whether you would be a good person, whether you'd be an absolute abomination of nature, you know, whether you'd be like Sang-woo, or Dok-su, you know, the gangster.
00:34:09
Speaker
you just don't know. It's just that kind of complexity and that is something I think the show does. I agree, it does it absolutely fantastically. It's definitely a strength that they build on through and they just layer the characters. I do agree though there are one or two characters
Execution and Critiques
00:34:27
Speaker
that
00:34:27
Speaker
kind of fall into stereotype territory, like excluding the VIPs, because I know we'll get on to them, but more so for the villains of the piece. Dok Soo, and is it Han Ming You, the his quote unquote girlfriend, for all of five minutes? Yeah, he got his name, wasn't it?
00:34:47
Speaker
Other than them, I mean, don't get me wrong, she's quite complex in a way in the sense that she's just a con artist, but the rest of them, I don't know, there's definitely people in there that you know where they are to be killed off, let's just say. Like, you can see them a mile off, you're just like, this is not gonna go well. But I do think the characters are just fantastic.
00:35:08
Speaker
And I mean as well with like, Sebiok is the North Korean defector in the show. I mean, she was fantastic as well. Apparently she, before she came on to Squid Game, like outside the show, she was like a model and that was like one of the director's requests that he wanted kind of no-name, not celebrities, but he wanted no-name actors coming into it. And I think this was her first role.
00:35:34
Speaker
yeah she does a phenomenal for that being her first role she does a phenomenal job and that is that that's not one of the best characters i think is it's hers i'm sorry what's her name sang it's say biok i think and she gives such a great nuanced performance as a character who like you don't as the series goes on you learn just a little bit more about each time and just the character unfolds yeah and you get the whole story and it's so well done i guess it's another strength of the show and by the end of it you argue just like
00:36:02
Speaker
your heart's breaking for most of them. Not Dokso. He can fall off a bridge. See, it's funny because it happened. It's something that I actually didn't notice, but somebody brought it up as like a theory to—or not a theory so much as more foreshadowing about what would happen to these characters.
00:36:25
Speaker
This is definitely one of those shows that you have to go back and watch and then pick apart the wee Easter eggs. For example, I didn't realise that the more the room opened up, the more players died, the less beds, obviously, there would be in the room. But the less beds there were, the less it would obstruct the walls. And on the walls are all the games that they're going to play. It's just so clever. I thought, wow, that's amazing.
00:36:50
Speaker
But one of the other things as well that someone had brought up, and I think this is more of a fan theory, but the idea that a lot of the fates are kind of foreshadowed. For example, Dok Tzu, before he returns to the game, he jumps off a bridge to escape his captors, and of course that's how he falls to his death later on. With Sang Woo, he ends up getting stabbed
00:37:12
Speaker
or rather he stabs himself, like in a previous scene he stabs Zebiok, you know, to, I don't want to say level the playing field because I'm still angry at that scene, but you know like kind of things like that. There's a lot in there, I mean the same with Ali being too trustworthy and then yeah that essentially becomes his downfall. Again we'll get to that because I know you squid fans out there will know like what we're talking about here but yeah,
00:37:40
Speaker
I just think it's great. I think it loops together just so perfectly. Before we move on to the bad points, is there anything else you would like to point out? I think the only quick thing I'd say is I actually love the games themselves with one exception, which we'll come on to. There's one that I don't like.
00:37:59
Speaker
but the other five i think are really really good and i think i think they're really they do that they film them and shoot them so well to get that attention i think the the darum adal or red light green light one in the first episode is fantastic it's such a great like such a great one to get the thing going to get everything started like even
00:38:15
Speaker
Even the simple ones like the one with the honeycomb where they have to cut the shapes out, like something so simple is done so well. I really enjoyed the tug-of-war as well, like especially when the old man Oh Il-Nam is like breaking down the strategy of how to win a tug-of-war I thought was fantastic. And the glass bridge, that is excellent as well. So I really, really enjoyed all the games with one exception.
00:38:37
Speaker
I mean, the only other thing I'd say is, well, and I'm gonna fit this in before we go into the bad points. Like, the lukewarm point I would bring in that I'm kind of conflicted about is the role of the detective. See, in the one hand, and I brought this up in the Chatsu Shorts episode, but in the one hand, I loved the fact that he was like the eyes. Like, as I said before, Gion is like
00:38:58
Speaker
the perspective for the players, whereas the detective who, his name's blanking on my apologies, but he is like the eyes and the side of the staff, if that makes sense. You know, it's like he's the one who gives us the perspective of what's going on. You know, they don't just choose like a random guard, they just choose someone who's been established in, I think episode two, and his main role was just finding his brother, which
00:39:25
Speaker
I don't want to say it's overly predictable but there is a lot you're learning about the games through his eyes which I really like and some other bits it kind of drags on but I wouldn't say it drags on to the detriment of the show. So I'd agree, like I totally agree, the best bits are when you get to see behind the scenes of the game and everything, that's the best bits of his. It just doesn't have the most satisfying payoff. I think the thing about it is you're kind of alluding to that's I think the big strike against it but I agree that it doesn't detract from the overall quality.
00:39:54
Speaker
because the thing that I did or rather one of my favourite bits or reveals that came out of it was the fact that the games had been running since maybe even further back but at least since the year 2000 and I thought wow that it just showed you how jarring it was that like 456 people a pop like coming in all to win you know the prize of 45.6 billion won which I
00:40:21
Speaker
think this was one of the memes that went around of everyone trying to calculate how much that was but I think in British pound sterling that's about just over £28 million give or take which is a lot of money granted but I don't know if it's worth it.
00:40:36
Speaker
That's all I'm saying. Well, desperation. But, you know, on that note, will we just slip into the negatives of it? Greenlight, let's talk about the negative points. I'm going to pass it to you once again to kick us off. You were saying that there was a particular game that you didn't like. I like all of the games except for the very final squid game.
00:40:55
Speaker
Honestly, I found like, so the squid, so it builds up the round six is, is the eponymous squid game, which I'm going to be honest. I don't fully understand the rules, but you have basically, it basically involves an attacker and a defender and the attacker has to make it to like around the squid. This kind of shape is like a shape that's drawn on the ground. And we see it right at the beginning and like Jihoon tells us like right at the beginning that this was the game that he played a lot when he was a kid.
00:41:20
Speaker
and he was really good at it, which is when it got to the final bit, and it's Ji-hun versus Sang-woo, I was like, well, clearly Ji-hun's gonna win this, because this is his game. Oh, that took away the suspense. I don't know as well, like, it was just shot, the way it was shot, it was kind of like, done a lot of slow-mo and the rain, all this rain pouring down, and I don't know, like, it took away a lot of the kind of realism and the tension that I felt the other games had, and it became a very stylistic thing, and I was just a bit like, this just kind of feels being a bit dragged out now.
00:41:46
Speaker
I don't... it's weird because I don't like... there's one particular thing I can say is why I don't like it but it just felt like a kind of unsatisfying ending game for me so yeah like I don't know I just remember watching it and being almost a little bit bored and just being like okay let's end this now you know we know Jeehan's gonna win so come on yeah let's go I mean not only that not only do we get like a John Woo level performance because let's face it doves should have been flying above them yeah
00:42:13
Speaker
But we've also got one of the VIPs who, as we said before, is Chinese. And yeah, he says some Mandarin proverb. And again, it's like building on what you're saying about it almost doesn't feel real. It's like it's perfect. Was that VIP just saving that proverb up? Indeed you were just waiting for the moment. You went to a proverb, to drop a proverb.
00:42:40
Speaker
I mean, what was the pro... I don't know, it was something to do with heavy rain, wasn't it? It was something like, it was something one of those things that you were like, that's just too perfect. Yeah, that's when you kind of thought, okay, yeah, that is a bit much. Okay, I can understand that. It felt as if it was quite... I don't want to say manufactured, that's the wrong word, but it did seem a bit over the top and something that I was a bit confused at as well was
00:43:09
Speaker
Like I don't know personally because obviously the squid game is not a thing in the UK and I doubt it's in Europe as well. Like for any European listeners or this side of the world, like please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but I don't even think in Korea squid games like that popular. Like I feel as if it's like a particular area and I mean I could be like well off the mark here but it doesn't seem as if it's like something that it just seems like a very weird and specific thing they put in. Yeah.
00:43:38
Speaker
because I don't know if that's like… So, of course, this is one of the major spoilers, so please feel free to cover your ears. It's revealed that one of the players, number one, O. Eonam, is one of the VIPs, and maybe it's because that was one of his games growing up. I don't… I'm assuming it's something to do with him.
00:43:57
Speaker
Because I doubt it's any of the other VIPs, I doubt any of them knew what a squid game was. I don't believe any of them were like, oh yeah, squid game. It's definitely your nan that had a say in it. Will we talk about the VIPs while we're on the subject? Yeah, it kind of flows naturally into that.
00:44:14
Speaker
yeah because let's face it I think everybody like universally agrees that they're the weakest part of this show so it's like episode seven or eight I want to say it's quite late on in the series where the VIPs are introduced and they're brought into the game or not into the game but to observe the game firsthand so they're all watching it at home you know and again this is linking back to what I was saying before it's almost like we are the VIPs watching like these people commit these things and then all of a sudden
00:44:43
Speaker
they're airlifted in and they have these weird like animal masks made of solid gold and it's like this is a bit strange is this like the I don't want to say like it's the next like gathering of like rain forest or something but you know it almost felt like that you're like uh what what is it would have been rain first
00:45:06
Speaker
exactly. You're kind of like, what is that? What's going on here? Why the animal masks? And this is coming from someone who has a red panda as an avatar. Like, what's going on here? They were very stereotypical in every single scene they were in. Like, for example, there is a very infamous scene where the... Oh boy, can't wait to talk about this one. There's a very infamous one where it's the... I want to say American slash Rich Dixon.
00:45:35
Speaker
Yeah, he bets on number 69, one of the players, and he gets asked by one of the other VIPs, why 69? And you know, he swirls his wine, he goes, oh well, you know, 69, it's a beautiful number. And they're all like, ha ha, you dog.
00:45:53
Speaker
And you're like, what? Really? Is this how people think we all talk, or rather Americans talk? Like, 69. Nice. You know, like, no, we don't. But I think you brought up an interesting point about that, didn't you? Oh yeah, about the dialogue and everything. Yeah.
00:46:08
Speaker
Their dialogue does sound a bit off, and that's apparently because it was written by the Korean production team who made Squid Game. So none of them were obviously native English speakers, and so the dialogue was written in Korean and then sort of awkwardly translated into English, and it was never sort of changed. And then the actors were just given the script, and that's the lines that they kind of said. So that's why it sounds a bit off, and I think that's why as well it kind of adds to this
00:46:34
Speaker
it kind of like, you know, lowers the quality a bit, but not, not, that's not, not to blame, you know, Korean production staff is not their fault, they're not native English speakers, you know, it's just, just one of its things. But yeah, like, I think tying into that, I think another kind of like criticism I would level against Squid Game is that like, I don't think it's like rich versus poor commentary is particularly nuanced or good. Like, to us, it kind of, when the ultra rich show up, I was like, well, of course, like, it's like,
00:47:02
Speaker
It's just standard now, isn't it? Whenever there's one of these shows, it's always ultra-rich men usually wearing some kind of weird mask showing up to bet on the poor. And I was like, oh, I don't know. For me, the theme of desperation was a far more effective thing that the show did. And I understand that there is stuff like a critique or deconstruction of capitalism. And some of it's done well, but I found that rich versus poor thing to be not that effective. I think something like Parasite,
00:47:31
Speaker
stick on the kind of K-media. Parasite does it far better and a much more nuanced way and is a far more interesting commentary I think than this is. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this actually but one other thing that I did not like in this is I did not like the oh ill nam reveal at the end. I don't know how you feel. I was conflicted by that because I saw and again we will get on to that episode but I saw the buckets at that episode and I was a wreck
00:47:59
Speaker
you know that meme image where it was like lie down try not to cry cry anyway that was me three times i sobbed three times even after i knew the reveal i was sobbing i was a wreck i was a mess i was crying into my partner's arms i was crying into my family's arms
00:48:15
Speaker
I was crying alone. I'm very conflicted because on the one hand I thought oh that is like a very weird reveal or very like you know oh it's
Plot Twists and Emotional Impact
00:48:24
Speaker
a twisted reveal. The thing that kind of confused me and that's something that everyone else brought up was he could have easily died.
00:48:30
Speaker
And I get that as kind of the point they wanted that he was going out anyway, so he wanted that one last hurrah before he went out, but it seemed a bit needless. Thank God he got put out in the marble game, because can you imagine if he got put out in tug of war? I don't know. Bad shape or something like that in the honeycomb.
00:48:49
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. It would have been screwed. And you'd be like, oh, okay, whoops. Interestingly, there is like a little easter egg that if you go back to the Dharama doll red light green light scene, it's very quick. But you know, when you like, so basically that game involves like, it's like an animatronic doll that like looks away and it goes green light. And then you know, you have like,
00:49:08
Speaker
you've got to run but when it says red light you have to stop and then the doll has a lot of sensors that pick up any kind of movement and the people who are moving get shot if you look if you look at one one of the scenes from the doll's eye oh well mum it doesn't actually get picked up by it so every like flashing over everybody else like in the green but he's just like blank so obviously the doll's programmed not to not to like pick him up on that one um but like i don't know what would happen in the other games as you say like i don't know i don't know if you got a special honeycomb that like
00:49:33
Speaker
The shape wouldn't break, I don't know, but yeah. I think he would have got taken out by, like, in the honeycomb he probably would have got taken to another room or something, then quote-unquote shot. But yeah, the other ones, yeah, there was no way he would be surviving that at all. But that's the thing, you're completely right about the shock. Like, this kind of links back to when we were talking about the violence, and how the violent nature of this doesn't feel like just there for shock value. Honestly, this reveal felt just there for shock value.
00:50:00
Speaker
I don't see what I don't think it adds anything to the show and the more I think about it the more I think it detracts because as you say it completely undoes a lot of the great work done in episode six, especially with Ji-hun. It's almost like Ji-hun gets a free pass for like being really deceitful and being pretty horrible and like taking advantage because Oh Il-Nam is character the old man apparently like I think I don't think he has dementia but he pretends to have dementia am I right? Yeah.
00:50:24
Speaker
Yeah, because they're playing marbles basically and she who like takes advantage of that to like, you know, basically convince him like, Oh, no, I won that round and stuff like that. So they won't get killed. Which again is another thing that you can completely understand as much as a horrible action. Like you can totally see why he's doing that. But I felt that kind of got like he got a pass for that at the end because it's like, Oh, well, the old man was deceiving him. So it's funny that he just I didn't like that it undercut that.
00:50:46
Speaker
I mean, that is a pretty big reveal that he was like a mastermind throughout the entire thing, you know, like, yeah, I'm kind of conflicted. Like, I like it well enough, but no, I do agree. Like, it completely conflicts with how I felt in episode six. Like, episode six is just such a gut punch of an episode. It's one of my favorite, in fact, it's my favorite of the series, but it's one of my favorites like I've ever seen. And I don't know if, and again, I don't want to like stereotype, like,
00:51:14
Speaker
the medium entirely, but it is something I have noticed in a couple of, like, in terms of, like, Korean dramas themselves, where there is always, like, one character, like, usually it's the villain of the piece, like, you know, sometimes they come across as being quite
00:51:29
Speaker
pantomime. And again, it's not like I'm not like saying, oh, oh, Korean dramas like this, or anything. No, no, not at all. It's obviously it's up to the discretion of the, you know, the writers, the director. So we get that here as well. You know, there's so many like, I mean, going back to an example, I brought up Money Heist as much as I love that. That's the way that kind of show went, where like a lot of the people who initially were very nuanced and had like very complex backgrounds just turned into cartoon caricatures. And it's like,
00:51:57
Speaker
I'm evil and I've got five guns and it's like wait what? But you know like for this it did seem like there was a lot of kind of stereotypes I want to say, like especially with Dok Soo, like obviously they needed that kind of antithesis but I think the thing that really hurt the most about Il-Nam's betrayal as it were was more the fact that they had such a good rapport with one another
00:52:20
Speaker
you know, he had Gion who at the very beginning he was. He was selfish but he wasn't a monster. You know, like don't get me wrong, he was kind of thoughtless like with his daughter or rather he gave her the present which, did you notice that? Like maybe this is a coincidence but I'm not sure. When he gave over the present to her, it was wrapped in a black box with like... Exactly the same.
00:52:43
Speaker
as the coffins. Yeah, exactly the same. Well, maybe like gold ribbon instead of red or pink, whatever it was. But yeah, like small things like that, you think, oh, that's clever. And another thing as well with Il-Nam is when he bumps into Bien. I don't know, they're drinking together and they're eating and apparently in the background, if you look closely, you can see a white van or silver van. You're the vans that take them to the island.
00:53:08
Speaker
Yeah, there's like a van behind them as well, which I thought was really fascinating. I thought that was really a nice touch. So there's a lot of interesting tidbits like that. And the fact as well, this is something I didn't bring up in the good points, but it's going back to what you were saying about thinking of the desperation, that whole narrative
00:53:28
Speaker
It really just falls flat, doesn't it? There's not really anything for it to stand on. It's more like there's not a strong enough antagonist, if you know what I mean. They're just rich people. They're just there to be rich. It's more like it's kind of what you expect.
00:53:44
Speaker
You know? But the thing that was quite interesting in terms of the desperation was that they had them numbered. So again, this is something that you definitely see in the promotional material. You have Guyun who has number 4, 5, 6. Il-Nam has number 1.
00:54:02
Speaker
which again that's a callback of he's number one, you know, he's the head honcho kind of thing but at the same time it showed like the parallels as well and I know that's kind of a novice point to like pick out but you know it's like although they were both at the opposite end of the spectrum, they were both like learning about one another, they were both kind of coming together to work with one another and then by the end of it they were again like at the opposite ends of the game you know without them believing solely that humanity was buggered.
00:54:29
Speaker
Whereas, you know, you still had that little bit of faith left and people, it was, that was really well done but I do agree to kind of undo that at the end. I don't know, it was just a bit disappointing. And speaking of disappointing, just to briefly touch on like a point we talked about earlier, how did you feel about the reveal of the detective's brother?
00:54:51
Speaker
Like, I mean, again, it was like a bit of a shock, but again, I don't really like, I don't know, I didn't really add much. Like, I feel, I don't know, I feel for the way it was like, if they maybe went a different direction with it, like that might've been like, you know, that might've been something like maybe if the games were like run by, like, you know, if the games were run by like former winners or something, maybe that would be more, maybe not, I don't know, but I don't know. It just kind of felt like there and it was like, Oh, that's him. Okay.
00:55:19
Speaker
I don't know, like, yeah. Again, it was that instant shock with it. I'm like, oh, does this really change much? Not really. No, I completely agree. It does feel as if it's like there, you know, it's like I'm here because I'm looking for my brother. And it's like, OK, I don't want to sound bad.
00:55:35
Speaker
I wasn't really invested in his character, you know, like he was just there to provide another perspective of the show and I liked him for that but anything beyond that it was kind of just like, oh he's there. Can I just say the world's best phone?
00:55:51
Speaker
It didn't get a signal but my god that battery lasted days. I mean what was in that battery? Like I think in like episode three or four or like the first time he's typing he's only got like 37% battery yet somehow that lasts him like the whole...
00:56:07
Speaker
the whole time he's there. To the extent that when he does get wifi, his phone's still going and it's like, how? What's your phone made of? Honestly, Apple or Samsung or whoever made that phone. I think it is an Apple phone but whoever that phone's supposed to belong to, they should really cash in on that because
00:56:26
Speaker
That battery's amazing. I completely agree. There was just really nothing there, was there? I'm just trying to think, is there anything else that struck you? Because overall it is a great show, but was there anything else that struck you wasn't as strong or could have been better?
00:56:45
Speaker
The only other thing I'd say is that after the masterpiece that is episode six, I felt the show never quite got back to that again. The last three episodes, and they're not bad episodes, it's just that it hit such a peak that it just, I don't know, I was always like, oh, that was good, but it was in episode six. So again, maybe that's an unfair criticism, it almost did too well.
00:57:09
Speaker
He did so well that I was like, oh no, you've almost ruined yourself. That's the only other thing I'd probably level at it. Absolutely. 100%. I was in the same boat. I thought, this shows incredible. I was sobbing. I was like, where's it going to go from here? And then afterwards I was like,
00:57:26
Speaker
I think I'd spent all my energy. I've got no more tears left to cry. Even by the end of it, when Guillaume somehow adopts a North Korean boy from an orphanage with bright red hair, I still don't understand that. I don't know if it's a culturally significant thing or it's just an artistic thing because people were saying because his hair's red, red is obviously
00:57:53
Speaker
color of impulsiveness and passion, which fits you in perfectly. It's not an important thing. That's more of a nitpick, but it just seems like it could have been something that they spent a minute saying, ah yes, red. Or sorry, they get the other VIP in. Well, you know, red.
00:58:12
Speaker
It's a flying colour. Oh you dog. I don't know. I genuinely. It was striking. That's all I'm saying. It was a very striking colour. Yeah but is there anything else you could think over? I mean this is a little bit of a nitpick.
00:58:31
Speaker
It's not something that I think Squid Game doesn't just do this a lot of other shows and films and media have done this. There is that bit where like the main character is kind of saved by quote unquote divine intervention during the very first game of Darmador where basically Jehoon's about to like fall flat on his face.
00:58:47
Speaker
and get shot, but then Ali, the character, like grabs him and I still don't quite understand unless I've completely, I missed it or I've forgotten. It just almost felt like one of the, it felt like a twofold thing. It felt like, number one, oh, Jehan's our main character. So of course he's not going to get like, he's not going to get blasted here, you know, he's not going to get here. And also as well as like as a way to introduce Ali as a kind of get him involved with the group. That's maybe the only other thing I would like nitpick a bit and just say, like, I don't know. Like I felt maybe there was a better way to have done that, but it's quite a minor thing.
00:59:17
Speaker
not an important issue at the end of the day. The only counterpoint to that, and I'm not saying you're wrong by the way,
Episode 6 - A Standout Moment?
00:59:24
Speaker
but you totally are. No, I'm joking. Other opinions are available? Yes. Other wrong opinions are available? No, I'm looking at it. No, you're perfectly right in that. The only, I'm just thinking back to a fan theory that I read, or not a fan theory, but more like a bit more
00:59:37
Speaker
speculation but they were saying how a lot of the characters change over the show so you know how we're talking about character growth and things like that and one of the things they pointed out was the fact that Ali seems to be the only one that's consistent throughout for Sang who you know initially tries to be a bit of a team player and then as you said before he kind of realises let's face it the gravity of the situation
01:00:04
Speaker
and he just becomes a lot more ruthless and brutal and just all around a horrible, horrible man. Yoon kinda tries to do the same, but then he kind of lightens up and becomes a bit more open and things. Ali seems to be the only one that is helpful throughout the whole thing. Like, he's immediately wanting to try and pay back Sang-woo for giving him money for the bus.
01:00:26
Speaker
even in the games, like he's given over his only source of food. To which Sang-Woo thankfully is the only nice thing he does. It splits it with him, which I'm sure makes up for it after his betrayal in Episode 6. That's something that he never loses. That's kind of his resolve, that he is just this person always trying to look for the best.
01:00:45
Speaker
of people in a way. That kind of ties into his characterisation of being naive because you see when he gets introduced later on that he works on this fact today that clearly are just exploiting people coming over to work there and he's got a family who come from Pakistan that he's trying to send money. Well he's trying to send his wife back with some money that he ends up taking from his boss because the boss wouldn't pay them and you know
01:01:11
Speaker
he just wants him safe and out the way and he's saying like oh I'll stay behind you know to basically risk his life in this game for his family. So he is like this very like I suppose if you're thinking of Dungeons and Dragons he's like the paladin of this almost and even when there's like that riot scene you know the breakout or a breakout but when the lights turn off and people start shanking one another I'll leave like
01:01:36
Speaker
dives in there with a huge metal bar and things. He dives like right in front of them even after people are saying, oh you can't trust so and so because they're gonna stab you in your sleep and you're all he's the only one that kind of stands up so it is interesting the way they do that but it's just a shame that kind of going back to a point that we were talking about there it's a shame that the antagonists aren't as strong
01:01:58
Speaker
Even the guards, the guards are kind of funny, but they're just there, you know? Especially the whole subplot with, you know, the doctor and the organ harvesting, like, that kind of goes nowhere, really. Yeah, it's a way-based advance, like, the detective.
01:02:16
Speaker
his like, search and stuff really. It's not really there for any other purpose. Yeah, as you said, it's there. And again, like all these points for the most part, I don't think detracts too much from the show. The only thing I would say is probably the VIPs are the worst of the show. I know that's kind of a lukewarm opinion, but that does seem to be the case, doesn't it? I would agree.
01:02:37
Speaker
I mean there are other nitpicks but I mean that and you know like this isn't a fault of the show itself but I feel as if I have to touch on it. The dubbing of the show is horrendous. Oh is it? Well yeah see this is the annoying thing because I watched it first time round in English and the only reason was because I put it all in the background thinking you know I'll just listen to it in the background and usually I don't like doing that usually I like to you know listen to it in its original language but
01:03:05
Speaker
Yeah, I didn't really, and it's honestly, it's very poor. I'll try and send you a link probably after this just to show you how bad it is, but it is very much like, you know how the VIPs talk? Imagine that throughout the entire show. Yeah, that is pretty much it. It's not good. It's kind of expected. It's not a fault of the show. Like I can't say, oh, Squid Game has terrible voice acting, like that's not their fault. Like, did you watch it in the original Korean?
01:03:32
Speaker
Yeah, I watched it with subtitles. I mean, I prefer not to sound all uppity, but I do prefer doing that generally, watching it in its original language. Because I think you get more from the acting, don't you? You can actually hear people's... Even if you don't understand the dialogue, it's the words itself, you get more of the performance.
01:03:53
Speaker
it's definitely something that you need a very good performance with, especially with some of the scenes in this where you're like, they're gut-punching at times. And the only reason, I'm just gonna reiterate this because I don't want people thinking, ah, so you've watched all these K-dramas, I bet you watched them in English as well. No I didn't.
01:04:11
Speaker
I swear to god it is just as I said I honestly I wasn't expecting much of squid game when I first put it on and then that's how it threw me off guard and then the other two times I watched it with people who wanted to watch it in English so it's like ah god damn it so I I mean I've seen bits of it in the original Korean but I do have to like go back and just blitz through it but from what I saw it was fantastic I don't know that's probably the greatest sin of all and
01:04:38
Speaker
Yeah, before we wrap up, we'll just go into episode 6. Let's get the grand finale. Yeah, so episode 6, which is aptly titled Gangboo, which apologies if I've completely butchered that pronunciation, but yeah, Gangboo is like
01:04:55
Speaker
a best friend, isn't it? That's how they describe it. And yeah, it basically focuses on a game of marbles. Oh, it is a gut punch. It actually reminds me of slight spoilers for another show that I've watched, Alice in Borderland. Have you seen that one? No, no, I've heard of it.
01:05:14
Speaker
I would recommend it. It's similar to Squid Game. It's a bit more sci-fi in a way, but it's very good. It's a similar idea of a Battle Royale game kind of thing. Basically, the premise of that show is a group of young adults get warped
01:05:29
Speaker
kind of, I think warped is the right word but they get warped into this like version of, I don't know if it's Tokyo or Kyoto or like one of the major cities and they find that the whole city's been abandoned but like every so often they'll come across like a, you know like a random person and then they take part in these like death games and each death game kind of corresponds with like a different suit, you know clubs, hearts, spades, that kind of thing and there's a particular episode where they have to do a hearts game
01:05:58
Speaker
where basically the hearts game in that show is like a very emotional one. It's one where you have to sacrifice something. And I was honestly getting vibes from, I'm not saying they copied, I'm saying more like it felt like that. It was that kind of gut punch of realising what the game was about to entail. And it was the same with the squid game where you saw them pair up because they were all very methodical. Like say my son Woo, he did the, which again I hated him because he was like,
01:06:26
Speaker
Oh yeah, Ali, we all team up because you're the strongest. He completely dangies Gion saying, yeah, no, Gion, we don't want you and our team. So he ends up teaming up with the old man and, you know, they get together and they're saying, ah, we're going to be ganbu and, you know, we're gonna be best friends and the prom's tomorrow, I'm retiring tomorrow.
01:06:47
Speaker
little jimmies coming back from the war, you know that kind, like every stereotype almost for like leading up to disaster and yeah, just that gutting feeling when you hear them say they had to play against their opponent. My heart just sank, like did you feel the same when you saw this one?
01:07:06
Speaker
structured episode. That reveal is brilliant because I didn't see it coming at all. As you say, they've all paired up and there's a husband and wife team there. There's, as you say, Ali and Sang Woo. Oh my God, I forgot her name, but the North Korean defectors sang by Yook. Say Byook, I think. Say Byook. Apology butchering these names, but she teams up with this other girl whose name has escaped me. This other kind of young girl who they'd started to
01:07:32
Speaker
almost started to form like a kind of friendship kind of blooming there and they team up and then oh my goodness is like the gangster guy goes with like one of his main henchmen and like because they're like oh we're the strongest we're gonna do it and then they and then just when you find they have to compete against each other that way of it being like marbles it's just this really simple thing and it's like the only rule is like you have to get the other person's 10 marbles you know at the end like there's no likes but it's not like you must play this game or whatever and just that kind of like for it was such a great like
01:08:02
Speaker
reveal and just set up such a fantastic episode. It's definitely an episode that's going to win you when you watch it because you just you don't expect what's going to happen you kind of think that this is just going to be you know like oh they're going to compete against other people what's going to be great you know you and your mom they're gonna they're gonna take those marvels
01:08:20
Speaker
and everything. And then as soon as he announced it, you're like, my god, this is, this is devastating, I can't watch. And as you said, Sabio can't, the other girl that she's with, like, both of them just, like, all the characters just have such good chemistry together. I think with the exception of Doc Su, who, you know, he's just there to be the antagonist within the group. He doesn't seem as if he's, you know, like a well-structured, you know, deep character, but he doesn't need to be, you know, they don't all need to be in the same caliber. I mean,
01:08:49
Speaker
him and his henchmen. It's so great in that episode, where his henchmen's winning. They play one year at first. His henchmen basically takes all his marbles, like bar one, and just a taught thing. And he's like, ah, he's just like, yeah, you think I'm an idiot? I know you were going to sacrifice me, but I'm going to knock you out now. And just all this great stuff. And then because getting more angry and just raging. Even that was like, I agree, it's not character development per se. It's not real emotion, but it was just a great contest between the two of them.
01:09:17
Speaker
was a great contrast between I think it was quite a good relief compared to what else was going on because you had Sebiok and the other girl talking about what they're gonna do after they won the competition and they're kind of fantasizing about going to Jeju Island and you know they're gonna have Mahitos and you know they're gonna have a great time and then they realize that both of them can't make it out in the same game and it's just gut punching and you know like the other girl talks about like her abusive past
01:09:47
Speaker
and you know, is saying what would you do? And then at the end she sacrifices herself by purposely throwing the game and everything. And I think both of them, both of those actresses were absolutely fantastic. Like I was just like, oh no, this is heartbreaking to watch.
01:10:03
Speaker
I can't deal with this. The acting on display in that whole episode was absolutely fantastic, and it really feels like the central character development episode, because we learn so much about these main characters. We get to see so much more of Sybaiok, much more about her past and her motivations, and we see actually some humanity, because she's been a very detached, emotionally cold character.
01:10:26
Speaker
but we start to do that kind of mass slip away and while we see like Sang Woo and Jihoon we'll see what they'll go to. We see like you know the desperation again like in that they're in and the the lengths they'll go to to survive for like even against like characters that they've like formed like pretty strong attachments and bonds with like at the end of the day like especially for Sang Woo it's like
01:10:47
Speaker
He's so goal orientated. He's just completely dead to himself emotionally. And that's sort of his turn. That's where he's like, I'm going to do whatever it takes. I'm in this to win it, and I'm in it for myself. And in terms of that, you just learn it so much. But again, I feel you can't... Well, for me, something I couldn't fully criticize these characters, because I'm like, ugh. They have strong motivation to do these things. Who knows what anybody would do in a situation like that.
01:11:09
Speaker
I just thought for everything about that episode. It's honestly the best episode of television I've seen since some of the episodes in the second season of Fargo, which is a show that I really, really love. I haven't seen a television episode that's gripped me and just floored me like that episode did.
01:11:25
Speaker
And the fact that it's just a game, or not a game, but it's the fact that this is an episode about marbles. They're playing marbles in just between the stakes, the characters that are involved. As you brought up before, Guyu and the Neil Naam trying to play against one another, and Neil Naam is trying to, you know, pretend that he's got dementia, which that absolutely, that twist... I think that twist was more impressive to me, where it turned out he was pretending the entire time.
01:11:55
Speaker
Rather than, you know, the twist at the end where it's like, oh, he's the mastermind, you're like, really?
01:12:01
Speaker
is that is this the people going compared to you know that that episode was just and i think that's the hardest i cried at that episode and as you said it does not get any better than episode six like not to say the rest of the show is bad but it's the fact as well that i mean i i got teary-eyed about sabrioc's friend to get shot and sacrifices herself that was gutting because she says you know i've not got anything to come out to you know i've got nothing whereas you have
01:12:29
Speaker
your brother, your mum, you know, that you're fighting for, and that was depressing, and that got me teary-eyed. Ali as well, realising that he'd been betrayed, and considering the fact that he'll never see his family again, he won't see his wife, he's kid, and he's just been betrayed, all because he put his trust in someone he thought was, like, disrespectful. Because he always refers to Sangwoo, and I don't know if this is because. I'm not laughing at that, but, like, it's because he's, you know, Seoul's national universities.
01:12:59
Speaker
like alumni representative in the squid game you know but he's like he keeps referring to him as sir he's very polite and that's his ultimate downfall like i can't remember the channel name i don't know if you've seen this but there's a particular channel on youtube that goes through these kind of films and tv series like series where you have to survive
01:13:19
Speaker
And for the most part, the commentator does say a lot of like, not terrible things, but you know, logical things like, step one, you have to throw everyone under the bus to survive or something. And it's like morally absolutely reprehensible, but you can understand why. And I think that's the same with like Sangwoo, you know, it's like, you can see why he did it, but it doesn't make it any easier seeing his face, like just as it gets shot. I think the worst, like kind of as a closing point, the worst
01:13:47
Speaker
moment is when Il-Nam gives over his last marble, which is used later, and Ez just Ez gut-wrenching when he gives it and he hugs him, and almost like a father figure he says it's gonna be okay and everything. And I brought this up before we started recording this episode, there's a particular scene for any friends fans out there
01:14:08
Speaker
There's a particular episode where Joey reads Little Woman and there's a scene where he finds out one of the characters is gonna die and he says, he's sobbing to his friend and he says, oh they all say she's gonna be okay but I don't think she's gonna be okay and that's exactly how I felt because I told you this before I was watching this with my partner.
01:14:29
Speaker
I was sitting there and I was sobbing and I was looking at it and I was saying, oh no I'm saying it was going to be okay but I don't think it's going to be okay and I was just like did you feel that way when you were watching it with your partner? Oh yeah like it's such like it was honestly we were just speechless sort of like the whole like towards the end of the episode because it is it's all gut punch after another and I think that's why is what I don't like the final squid game because how much emotion and tension was built into this like simple game of marbles
01:14:59
Speaker
There's no real, like, stylistic shots and there's no, like, slow motion and, like, heavy rain beating down. It's all just pure character. It's all character work, like, done by the actors, just, like, absolutely brilliantly. That's why when I got to the final game, I was like, this just feels like style over substance. While this game of artles is all substance and it's all amazing.
01:15:18
Speaker
It is a simple episode, isn't it? Yeah. It's a simple episode that doesn't need any theatrics, because that's the thing, though. It's like, although they obviously have the huge set of, you know, people playing in this kind of old, like, Korean street, as it were, it's not as flashy as the other games. Like, they have a literal robot that targets people in the first one for the second one. Well, for the second one, I suppose it was just them making the honeycomb. But they still had to make loads of it. I mean, Jesus, imagine how long that must have taken.
01:15:48
Speaker
That playground as well, like giant playground equipment. Whereas the three, or rather the third game, I mean tug of war, although that was simple, like that was like suspended over the bridge and it had the big guillotine and I mean that was, that must have taken lots. But for that episode, episode six, it was just so simple. It was just a game of marbles. It's something that I think internationally as well, everybody can relate to. I'd be kind of hard pressed to think of a place where like nobody knows what marbles are.
01:16:18
Speaker
you know. I mean like for the most part I think at the end of the day that's what grips international audiences because although obviously squid game is like Korean, you know like the actual squid game is Korean, a lot of the games do have equivalents all over the world, you know like red light, green light, the candies, tug of war especially, you know marbles as we said, the kind of hopscotch one technically. Like kind of hopscotch based.
01:16:46
Speaker
I mean don't get me wrong, if I saw that in this school I'd be a bit miffed. But yeah, you've got equivalence there for the most part and I think at the end of the day that's what really brings it in. It's that kind of wave of not only nostalgia but dread as well.
01:17:01
Speaker
It is conflicting themes that you think should clash and shouldn't go together.
Overall Review and Future Concerns
01:17:07
Speaker
It's like oil and water, you've got this very bright and colourful playground and these bright sets and at the end of the day it's all this horrible visceral violence and blood and guts and it just clashes and it shouldn't work
01:17:22
Speaker
but like it does, it shows you how A. messed up the games are but B. how desperate people are just to get that 45.6 billion more. It's just breathtaking and I think we'll be hard pressed to find a show anytime soon that has reached like the scale that Squid Game has. Oh yeah.
01:17:41
Speaker
Because there will definitely be a show. There will be a show that will surpass it, but that I don't think it'll come until years. It'll be years until that comes. I'd agree with you. Probably most likely. I can't see anything rivaling it soon. So just before we close off, are there any other final thoughts you want to say about this series?
01:17:59
Speaker
Yeah, so to sum up, I really enjoyed the series. I don't think it's perfect. You know, not everything works. I think some things work better than others. But overall, I really enjoyed it. I think it's a perfect length. The nine-episode structure was perfect. That's all the less as long as it needed to be. The character work is fantastic. The acting is superb. Kudos to the actors for all the work they did. Their characters are the highlight of the show.
01:18:26
Speaker
and yeah I would if you haven't seen it by chance you know if you're one very few people who hasn't seen it and you know like apologies that you've now spoiled the series for you but you know I still recommend go watch it and you know like because it's really good it's really really good. I would second that and definitely say that if you haven't seen it go see it. The only thing that I'm a bit hesitant about is I'm
01:18:48
Speaker
a little bit worried that this show is going to suffer from its own fame. And maybe that's a bit of a pretentious thing to say, you know, because, as I said, when I came across this show, I watched this before the hype, before there were any spoilers, before anyone knew what a squid game was, and
01:19:07
Speaker
I loved it. It was brilliant going in, completely blind, not knowing anything. But now that you've got the honeycomb memes, which I have to admit, I did use that as a thumbnail for my Chat 2 Shores episode. So apologies for that. But all the memes have probably spoiled it for people. People who are
01:19:27
Speaker
again they're imitating the games and things. This is something that does annoy me and I don't want to sound like a hipster again to be like, I liked it before it was cool because it was literally like a fleeting moment. As soon as more people get their hands on a series like this, there's gonna be a lot more criticism, you know, there's gonna be a lot more parodies, a lot more deconstructions, a lot more people saying, well if I was writing Squid Game, you know, it's like a bucket of
01:19:52
Speaker
is like a lot more criticism is gonna be flung at Squid Game and I feel as if if it's not careful it's gonna fall under the weight of its own success and this is something that and don't worry this is the last time I'll bring it up but for that Money Heist show that I was telling you about, first two seasons
01:20:11
Speaker
absolutely loved it. But according to Behind the Scenes for that show, it wasn't really received very well. It was on Spanish television and then I think they pulled it off and people weren't really interested in it and then Netflix picked it up and then suddenly it became like
01:20:29
Speaker
really popular. And that's another show I would recommend, because the first two seasons are great. It's currently on its fifth season now, with the final part coming out in December, so by the time you listen to this, you know, in the far future, it's probably out by now. It's a show that just degraded in quality for me, personally, and that's the thing I'm worried about with Squid Game, that the characters that like, you know, I was about to list the other ones but they're all dead.
01:20:54
Speaker
I was going to be like Ali Il-Nam Sang-Woo who went to SNU. Like yeah they're all dead but you know I don't, well not I don't want it to undo it but I am worried that's what's going to happen with it but that's the risk you take with big shows like this because I mean look at any American show like Walking Dead. I was about to say Breaking Bad but I think Breaking Bad's
01:21:18
Speaker
kinda gets off the hook. Once I are too long in the truth, essentially, I just hope that it's not gonna outstay
Speculations on Sequels and Marketing
01:21:25
Speaker
its welcome. That's all I'm thinking.
01:21:35
Speaker
so I kind of hope that like it's a new cast of characters because I'm not sure I want to see G-Hoon go through the squid games again you know that feels like it might be a bit repetitive so hopefully they have some ideas to kind of freshen up a bit we can only hope and you know as you said keep our fingers crossed
01:21:50
Speaker
think according to the rumours they are going to keep it fresh and get new characters in but it kind of seems weird considering how this ends. Also can I just say how terrible it is? Well not terrible because I get he wants to stop the squid games but he hasn't seen his daughter in over a year. I mean that was the
01:22:12
Speaker
that was the only time i was agreeing with the organizers of the game because the front man's just like yeah given come on get on the plane just go see your daughter like he could go see the daughter and then come back but he's like no no i gotta stop the games now it's like oh for
01:22:28
Speaker
And then it just ends and you're like, oh god, given why, how would you do this? But yeah, just to kind of summarise, I would say, try and go into it as blind as you can, which is impossible now, considering it's everywhere. Like, whoever did the marketing for this? Absolute geniuses.
01:22:44
Speaker
absolutely incredible is everywhere for good reason and all of the companies just now are taking squid game inspired iconography. Although I did see like a very poor taste one where it was about I think it was a insurance company that had like see the three symbols on the card and it was like you don't have to risk your life in the squid games and I was like good lord fire that person.
Final Thoughts and Humorous Conclusion
01:23:10
Speaker
It's like that, pure taste, but that just shows you how extensive the reach is for this show. So as a closing point, you're going to hate me for asking this, but does this entice you to check out other Korean shows? So, I mean, I'm going to be honest, I'm probably not going to. I'm not a big TV watcher. I have to admit, like, I only really tend to watch a few shows and mostly shows that I know I like. So I'm not very adventurous when it comes to TV.
01:23:37
Speaker
But you know what, if I did see another Korean TV show that was gaining some popularity, I would be more inclined now to check it out. So what you're saying is you won't be doing a 50-part retrospective of... I'm going to be joining you for your top 10 picture of the K-prompts. I'm going to join you for that episode, probably very likely. Sorry, this is the end of the episode. If you'll excuse me, I'm going to phone Green Shield and see if he wants to take part. Oh no.
01:24:06
Speaker
I'm sorry, you're getting kicked off. You've been squid-gamed. Oh god, can you imagine? See, this is the thing, obviously horrible stuff does happen, but if this did happen in real life and it was televised and things, you could imagine there would be a very ridiculous catchphrase or something. Even if it was an American remake, it'd be like, you've been squid-gamed. It's like, what does that even mean? Nobody knows, but yet they still do it.
01:24:32
Speaker
That is a version. Between that and the American remake of The Raid, it's not something I want to watch. Push me through the glass. Just yep. I'm ready coach. I'll wrap my arms around you, we'll go together. That's fine.
01:24:47
Speaker
Yeah, let's just go together and not watch those kind of things. And on that note, Adam, thank you so much for joining me and at last watching Squid Game, because I know initially you were a bit apprehensive about watching this, but yeah, thank you for watching it and doing this review with me. No, my pleasure, my pleasure. I'm glad that I've seen it. I'm glad I pushed myself to watch it.
01:25:10
Speaker
but yeah it was it was well worth it so thank you for thank you for giving me give me a little push to get me going and then props to my fiance for giving the final big push through the glass to watch yes i too would like to thank you fiance for getting you to watch us show props to her thank you and yeah with
01:25:27
Speaker
Without any further ado, thank you all so, so much for listening to this episode of Chat Tsunami. As always, stay safe, stay awesome, stay hydrated, and most importantly, if someone comes up to you with a PlayStation card, just don't take it. Actually, this is something I was going to say, yeah, this show is not for Xbox fans. I want it to be A, B and X that they're wearing rather than those dumb shapes. Yeah, exactly, yeah.
01:25:52
Speaker
If somebody comes up to you with a card with their symbols on it, just buy an Xbox. I mean, it's like, where are you going to get the money for it? It's like, don't care. I'm not going to play the game because hashtag Xbox for life. Also Microsoft, if you would like to sponsor Chat Tsunami, you know, the door's always open. If Netflix have responded to us by the time of this episode, you know, just ignore this. And yeah, as always, stay safe, awesome, hydrated, and see you guys in the next one.