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Episode 21: SUMMER SCHOOL: Does Theology Really Matter? with Joel Muddamalle
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Transcript
Introduction to Root Like Faith
00:00:03
Speaker
Hi, I'm Ruth Schwank and I'm so thrilled you're listening in with us at Root Like Faith. It is our deepest desire to encourage and equip men and women to be rooted in God's word, transformed by the love of Jesus, and moved by his mission in the power of the Holy Spirit. Nothing is more important.
Summer School Miniseries on Theology
00:00:21
Speaker
Well, today I'm so excited because we are kicking off our summer school miniseries and you are in for a treat because we have a special guest that I know you are gonna love. But before I talk about the special guest, honey, why don't you share a little bit about this summer school miniseries? I thought you'd never ask.
00:00:42
Speaker
You know I'm excited about this series because I showed my enthusiasm several weeks ago when we were talking about it. But no, I am really excited. This is sort of like a mini class, if you will. And so we're doing this summer school series and we're talking kind of theology 101, you know, the basics of the Christian faith. We're going to be talking
00:01:02
Speaker
about a variety of topics. And so we're going to be in particular talking about today with Joel about theology and why theology is not bad or boring. And then we've got some guests coming up. We're going to talk about who the Holy Spirit is. Are all of the gifts of the Spirit still available to us today?
00:01:19
Speaker
We're going to talk about the Trinity. We're going to talk about angels and demons. We're going to talk about the Bible and whether or not it can be trusted. And so I hope that this is just a really, really good mini series to just further root us in Christ, help us to feel more equipped, more confident in our own faith. And so I am just really, really excited to be discussing some of these
00:01:40
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topics and to have some of these guests on the
Introducing Special Guest Joel Mudamale
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podcast. I think you're going to really, really enjoy it. Yeah. We have some amazing guests lined up. So let me tell you about the guests today. His name is Joel Mudamale and maybe, whoa, that's kind of a hard name to say. Mudamale. I like it though. I thought, I thought schwink was hard. No, it's so, it sounds so cool. Mudamale anyways.
00:02:05
Speaker
Joel serves as the director of theology and research for Proverbs 31 Ministries and Lisa Turkhurst and is part of the preaching team at Transformation Church with Pastor Derwin Gray. Joel is a Ph.D. candidate in theology and is writing about unity and diversity. He loves studying and teaching the brilliant truths found in scripture and unpacking how they relate to our everyday lives.
00:02:30
Speaker
And I love that bio, the end of that, because I feel like Joel is so good at that. You know, he's on Instagram if you want to follow him at Mudamale. And that's spelled M-U-D-D-A-M-A-L-L-E. And he just does a great job of really making theology understandable for the everyday person. Don't you agree? Absolutely. Absolutely. I wish I had half of his brain.
00:02:54
Speaker
And so he is just, they're going to love this conversation. And for those of our listeners, which I'm sure there are a lot who know of him already and follow him on Instagram, just clearly a sharp guy, loves God's word, loves theology, but like you said, wants to make it very, very practical.
Why Theology Matters
00:03:10
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And so I think you'll get that today in our conversation. And so just really appreciate him. Appreciate his ministry.
00:03:16
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and appreciate all that he's doing for the body of Christ. And so we talked today about theology, what it is and why it matters, why it's not bad or boring. And so as we kick off this series, what better place to start than talking with him about that? And so he has just so much energy and excitement and obviously wisdom when it comes to this area. I agree. All right, let's get going. Well, Joel, welcome to Root Like Faith. We're so excited to have you on today as part of our summer school series.
00:03:45
Speaker
Man, thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here with you. Well, I know that we have we have sort of known of each other for kind of a couple years now and have got to know each other, you know, online and had never had the opportunity to get together in person. And so it's just good to connect in this way and just really appreciate your your time and have appreciated your voice and influence and just your teaching ability, your gifts. And so I'm excited to just to have this conversation on Root Like Faith. I know it's going to be a huge
00:04:14
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encouragement, blessing to our listeners. And as we were talking earlier, we are in the middle of this, or actually it's the first episode of this series that we're doing on the podcast called Summer School.
Personal Journeys in Theology
00:04:25
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And so this is kind of a theology 101, sort of a Bible basics. And so for nerds like me, like I'm loving this series, I love this series. And so it's great to have you on. We're going to be kicking off the series today. And as we were talking earlier, and we've got all sorts of great
00:04:42
Speaker
content and conversations coming here over the next couple weeks. We're talking about the Trinity. We're talking about angels and demons. We've had Jenny Kuhn talk with her and interviewed her about her new book on the Holy Spirit, which I know you've had lots of conversations with her and talked with her recently. She really is. That was such an incredible conversation with her. And then Sean McDowell is talking about the Bible and whether or not it can be trusted. And then Dr. Sam Storms is talking about different spiritual gifts and whether or not all of the gifts still
00:05:11
Speaker
really are available to the church today. So lots of good content conversations coming, but today we're kicking off theology. Thanks Pat for putting the stress on, to putting the pressure on for me after you list an all-star group like that. So I appreciate it. Yeah, no pressure. Like if we notice a real dick that listens after this, you know, we'll connect the dots. Now I really want to, I think this is such a great place to start. And I've been so, as I said, I've been so grateful for your
00:05:42
Speaker
your influence and your teaching ability and just your role with Proverbs and just the impact I know you're having. And so we're gonna be talking about theology, what is it and why does it matter? But before we get there, I'd love for you, I think a lot of our listeners are gonna be familiar with you already. And so for those that aren't, I'd love for you to just take a couple minutes and love to just kind of hear your story, like how you came to know Christ and maybe just some of those experience or events or even people
00:06:11
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that have shaped you over the years in particular that maybe have really just given you a love for Jesus, but for
Faith and Family Legacy
00:06:17
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his word and for theology. So let's start there.
00:06:21
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Yeah, well, I wish we were in person together on a coffee table with some good coffee in our hands. And for everybody that's listening in, I wish y'all had a chair and pulled up so we could see each other and smile and just get to know each other. But I need you to just imagine that you've got some coffee. Hopefully you do actually have some coffee in your hand. But if you saw me, you'd see that I'm actually Indian.
00:06:45
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Actually, some of the earliest memories that I have, my grandparents are missionaries in India and when my mom was in med school, she sent me to live in India. My grandfather was converted by British missionaries in India and he responded to the gospel and the Lord saved him.
00:07:03
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And he has been doing missions work in India, which is a primarily Hindu and Buddhist country and Christians are severely the minority there. And so I think I have a very special kind of introduction to the gospel and to the story of Jesus because some of my earliest memories are waking up early, early in the morning, like three or four in the morning.
00:07:24
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And getting up with my grandfather and going to these rural villages and hearing my grandfather in Telugu, the language that we speak in India, is Thatha, listening to my Thatha, just proclaimed the gospel to a group of people called the Intouchables. And these were people that were the lowest outcast of society. They really didn't have any hope, any opportunities, and watching how the gospel invaded their lives as they met and heard about this guy named Jesus.
00:07:49
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who really changes everything and so the most influential person Pat in my life absolutely has to be my grandfather because I saw a man who not only lived the message of the gospel
00:08:03
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but who permeated that message and everything that he did from his words to his writing to his actions to his fathering and even his grandfathering. And so that's a big part for me. I got my start in ministry as a worship leader. A lot of people don't know that about me early in the day. And so it's been a really long time. I don't want anybody to ask me on Instagram or anything to pick up a guitar and lead a new worship. It's been a really long time.
00:08:30
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I was just going to say, I'm going to be the first person to do that. So just watch your Instagram. Right, right. So I kind of had my early child after that experience with my grandfather. I think as many kids, especially when I came back to America,
00:08:46
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Had I kind of had the American dream in my heart and so it's like hey, I'm gonna become a lawyer I'm gonna get married and and just kind of live out the American dream and towards sometime later in my life I'll give a little bit back to to Jesus and to the church and when I started leading worship and started doing that I was introduced to this movement called
Pivotal Experiences in Faith
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the passion movement and
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and many of you already know a guy named Louie Giglio and as a high school senior my youth pastor snuck me into a passion conference I wasn't even technically allowed to go but he somehow got me in and I was so hyped and I was so excited and ready to hear Louie and these other incredible worship leaders Crowder and Tomlin back in the day and Charlie Hall
00:09:28
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And then there's this guy in a tweed suit coat who came up and his name is John Piper, Dr. John Piper. And I remember thinking, all right, now is a good time to go to the bathroom. You know, like this is the time for me to break. But for whatever reason, I just kind of sat down and I heard Dr. Piper talk about the glory of God and what he refers to as Christian hedonism. And I just remember my heart was captivated. And I just thought, my goodness, I've never really heard
00:09:57
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the scriptures, theology, biblical theology articulated in this way where it just really captivated me. And so that was my really first introduction to theology. And then the more I read Piper and Keller and all these other guys, I realized, gosh, they're referring a lot to a guy named Jonathan Edwards. Who is Jonathan Edwards? And so that was my introduction to Edwards and the Puritans. And the more I read the Puritans, I realized, gosh, these guys are all really ripping off a guy named Augustine.
00:10:27
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and Aquinas and got into church history and the fathers. And that really was my introduction to biblical theology and to just this great tradition that we have in Orthodoxy and the church fathers. And so those people that have shaped me, I would say that the biggest theologians in my life are going to be as like J.I. Packer.
00:10:49
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John Stott, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Herman Bovink, a brilliant systematic theologian. But it all started, I mean, really for me, one, early on with my grandfather, but then really at this passion conference in Lee and listening to Dr. Piper just explore the gospel. And it's been an incredible journey ever since. I love that, man. God is so good. It's amazing to me the different ways that God
00:11:17
Speaker
you know, breaks through in our life and the different, you know, events or experiences or even people that God uses as he's pursuing us and calling us into a relationship, you know, with himself through Jesus. And it's interesting as you're talking about your father or your grandfather. I think I've maybe have shared this story before on the podcast, but it was really my grandfather that it was kind of a turning point, my mom's side. It was her dad, you know, for our family. But my mom describes
00:11:44
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coming home one day, she was I think maybe upper elementary, junior high and coming home and finding her dad, my grandfather. They grew up in a coal mining town in Kentucky, but she came home and found him weeping in their family room. He was weeping on the floor and he'd been listening to a radio broadcast out of Grand Rapids, Michigan.
00:12:09
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And so he heard the gospel and it just penetrated his heart and he received Christ that day. And she says that that moment, everything changed and their lives changed, their family changed. And so just remind you, as you were telling that story of your grandfather and just the impact that Jesus had in his life and how transformative it really was, I can identify at least
00:12:31
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in part with, that was true in our family with my grandfather. I'm so grateful for his response to the gospel and how that impacted my mom and then us and on down the line. And so I just love that. Different people that you have mentioned, those are some big names. And so that's good company to be in and good people to be reading. I appreciate that part of the story.
00:12:55
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I wanna sort of transition here. I know we're gonna talk about theology and what it is, why it matters. I think sometimes theology gets a bad rap. Oftentimes people view theology as boring. And so I'd love for you to just really speak very simply to what is theology and why is it so important?
Defining Theology
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Yeah, so I love this question and I feel like sometimes theology can feel like this big massive 30,000 foot in the air kind of question and probably one of the best ways that I have been able to understand theology is based off of this 17th century German astronomer.
00:13:35
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And so I was like, wait, can we actually learn anything from the 17th century? Yes, we absolutely can. And it was actually a German astronomer Johannes Kepler, who once said he was looking out into the stars. And he basically says, you know, when you talk about theology and really studying God's Word, he said, I was just merely thinking God's thoughts after him. I was merely just thinking God's thoughts after him. And so what is theology? Well, theology comes from the Greek word theos.
00:14:02
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And the second half of that word is the word for study and it's a study of God's word. But I kind of like this definition or this coloring even more so. It's actually an acknowledgement.
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that God has thought all of these thoughts out already and He has graciously placed them in Holy Scripture for us. And so our journey, our process of studying God's Word is not necessarily to come up with new thoughts or new ideas or innovative new original concepts. It's just simply saying, gosh,
00:14:34
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Lord, you have thought all these things in front of us, and so we're just going to follow after you're leading. We're going to follow after your thoughts, and we're going to see where you lead us. And so when we think about what theology is, I kind of think of it as a journey where we're following our good Father who has left us a trail, a breadcrumb trail, in a sense.
00:14:58
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to journey towards home. And so that's kind of how I would describe theology, just thinking God stops after him. Yeah, it's really good. I think it was Tozer who said that what we believe about God is the most important thing about us. And I think just that reminder that it's not like there are some people who are theologians and some who aren't.
00:15:17
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I mean, certainly people we think of in some of those you described, but really everybody's a theologian. I mean, the girl at the supermarket is really a theologian because she has thoughts about God. And the minute somebody begins to say, well, I think this about God, or God is this way, they're having a thought about God or they're making a statement about God. And so the reality is that all of us, even the non-Christian,
00:15:41
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is a theologian because they're having thoughts about God. And the real issue is whether our theology is good or whether it's bad, right?
00:15:50
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Right. And I think, my goodness, that's such an important concept because I do feel like often when I am in conversations with people that they think, gosh, it would be so great to be a theologian one day. And I say literally exactly what you just said. I said, actually, the moment you begin to think the thoughts of God or to think on God himself, you have actually entered into the role of theology. So a theologian isn't something that we become one day. A theologian is who we are today.
00:16:19
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And in being that thing today, it's a thing that actually doesn't even cease because there is never a point in time where we get to say, hey,
00:16:27
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I have come to the end of the road of God's thoughts. Those are endless, you know? And so there's even a beautiful journey ahead for that. But yeah, I would just be emphatic on that thought that every one of us, the mom, the high school student, the college student, my children who are 10, 6, 7, and 15 months,
00:16:50
Speaker
I mean, they are all in some way, in some fashion, theologians in the sense of they're trying to understand their place in place of God and the world. Yeah. Well, let me highlight a couple things, too, that I think are really important for us to remember, you know, when it comes to understanding theology and why theology matters, you know, so much. I think, you know, we're seeing this in our own day, for sure. And it's I guess it's nothing new to our culture. This has happened to
00:17:17
Speaker
even the apostles were dealing with this. But I think one of the other reasons why theology is so important, why it matters so much is because we have a tendency to really begin to make God submissive to us. And so, I mean, unless we have like a biblical view of who God is and we stay focused on that, and again, our thoughts about God,
00:17:39
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are anchored in scripture, then what happens is that really Christianity will tend to be defined by what we think or how we feel. And so I think it's so important just for us as we're thinking about this series and as we're thinking about this conversation today that I think that's one of the reasons why theology is so important, good theology is so important, is it really prevents us from placing God in submission.
The Importance of Good Theology
00:18:05
Speaker
to us. And I think one of the other reasons too is that you just think about Satan's attempts to distort our view of God. And I think you see that throughout the scriptures and you see that in the life of a church or in a home or just in somebody's life, maybe as they're going through some kind of trial or suffering. I mean, there's all sorts of examples where it's, again, so important that we have right thoughts about who God is and that that's biblically
00:18:30
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informed because I mean from the very beginning obviously Satan is attempting to distort our view of God. I think the third thing that comes to my mind as we're talking about this is that it really enables us as followers of Jesus to live on mission and communicate who God is more accurately.
00:18:51
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And so I think you think about what's going on within our culture today. And there's all sorts of things that maybe are being communicated about who God is that maybe are not accurate. And so I just add some of those reasons, I think, for why good theology is so important. Yeah, absolutely. And I think just in addition to that, I think that there is always something or someone that is competing for our attention and our affection.
00:19:18
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and the human heart is designed. It was built by God to pour out love and affection.
00:19:27
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And at the fall, the heart doesn't like, this is actually Augustine. I'm thinking of Augustine and others, Calvin, Luther, they talk about the heart being curved inside. And so at the fall, the heart isn't curved in its proper orientation to God. The fall takes our heart and curves it internally towards ourselves where we become the focus of attention and affection and glory and honor. And that is such a subtle
00:19:55
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yet divisive and destructive aim for our loves and for our desires. Because what it will do is not just destroy ourselves, but it will destroy all of the people who are around us. Because no longer do we have a higher good, we have only our good as our aim. And yet the biblical story and theology, when it's rightly taught, understood, oriented, it actually brings right orientation. It actually funnels and recurves our heart
00:20:23
Speaker
to the place that is going to not just be for our good and for others good, but ultimately for God's good and glory. Yeah, that's so good. Absolutely. Let me ask you, because I think this is one of the challenges that we face or sometimes it's one of the criticisms when people are thinking about theology or what they perceive to be somebody who is maybe more concerned about biblical theology.
00:20:50
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somebody else is that sometimes there's a disconnect between the head and the heart and so sometimes there's that that criticism and rightfully so that those that are into their Bibles and that those are into theology like you you'd want if you were competing for the Bible bowl you'd want them on your team right but you wouldn't want to take a more than a 10-minute road trip with them and so sometimes I think there's it feels like there can be a disconnect
00:21:16
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between our theology and then our reality or a disconnect between having good theology and having good spiritual formation. And so if you'd speak to that a little bit, I mean, like, where's the disconnect there sometimes? Like, what should somebody avoid when they're pursuing, again, biblical theology, having right thoughts, Orthodox thoughts about who God is, and yet not losing a soft heart and Christlike character in the process?
00:21:44
Speaker
Yeah, you know, this is such a we could do a whole podcast on this by itself. But I think I think part of this is a result of the Enlightenment movement, the, the Western rebels, rebelization, you know, the ancients, the Greeks, the Hebrews, the, the Babylonians, the Persians, ancient Near Eastern world, when they thought of the human being, you know, the Hebrew word for heart is labe. And
00:22:08
Speaker
And that word, that idea was not a demarcated or like a, there was no duality or like a tritheism thing going on there.
00:22:20
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there was this sense that the heart was the seat of the volition, the seat of the will, and the heart actually had both the mind and emotion together in beautiful harmony. What's happened now is that exactly what you just said, we have created this place of either I'm being led by emotion or I'm going to be led by
00:22:40
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my mind and by my will, and yet that seems to be a foreign concept in the biblical text because there's actually supposed to be balance when we take a look at that. And I think that when we think primarily emotionally or primarily intellectually and we allow ourselves to be on one side of the polar extreme or the opposite side, we're actually robbing ourselves of what it means to be truly human.
00:23:05
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what it means to be a truly living and being person the way that god had intended for us to be and so i would just speak to the intellect you know if you are primarily wired to be a researcher of facts and intellectual force yourself to step into spaces of emotion.
00:23:24
Speaker
Read the Psalms, my goodness, read Proverbs, read literature in the Old Testament that draws out the reality of the human emotion and allow yourself to be balanced by that. And then simultaneously, if you're primarily an emotional person,
00:23:39
Speaker
You might want to step into some historical context in the Old Testament or read some of Paul and Galatians or Ephesians and not be so consumed with things like the Psalms because you want to create balance in your heart. And that's what we have in scripture. That's what we have in theology. We have the sense of balance, not the sense of one thing being, you know, just consuming over the other.
00:24:08
Speaker
No, that's really, like you said, we could do a whole episode on that theme alone. And not to get too much in the weeds here, but it does, you know, I think certainly post-Reformation, there's, as you know, a distinction between justification, sanctification, adoption, glory. You know, that idea is very much new within church history.
00:24:35
Speaker
Post-Reformation and where again for those of our listeners that are coming from a Catholic background or an Orthodox background one of the differences Theologically is that as evangelical Protestants? Especially if we come from a more reformed background so that the folks you're describing There's a big emphasis on God declaring us to be righteous right that that imputed righteousness this righteousness that's given to us so that when the Father sees us and
00:25:01
Speaker
He sees us as he sees his son, Jesus, and that's a righteousness that is not our own. We didn't earn it. And yet, because of what Jesus accomplished for us on the cross, Paul says he made him who knew no sin, that he might be sin for us when we become the righteousness of God. And yet, in the larger body of Christ, there's much more of an emphasis on infused righteousness, not imparted or imputed.
00:25:24
Speaker
And so they would oftentimes agree and say, yes, God does declare us to be righteous, but that's just the beginning of a process now. God is making us righteous or actually becoming righteousness. And as Protestants, we would distinguish those that God declares us to be righteous, to be forgiven by our repentance and belief in Jesus. And then that begins the work of sanctification. But for those of our listeners that come from a Catholic or Eastern Orthodox position,
00:25:51
Speaker
There's much more of an emphasis on becoming righteous and sharing in God's nature and God imparting his sanctifying grace, his life. And so it does. I think sometimes there's a variety of reasons as to sometimes why we can focus on good theology and yet there are large parts of our life or who we are that go untouched by God's grace.
00:26:20
Speaker
I think what you said is exactly right, so true. And again, we could spend more time, I know, talking about that. But what are some biblical theological trends that you see that are most concerning to
Addressing Modern Trends in Faith
00:26:32
Speaker
you? I mean, we've been talking, obviously, about the role God's word plays in having good theology in God's grace, the good news, transforming all of who we are, the whole person. But what are some biblical trends, some theological trends that, again, most of our listeners,
00:26:49
Speaker
likely aware of. They're seeing it in their churches. Maybe they're seeing it at the mall. They're seeing it on social media. But what are some things that you've noticed that are worth, I think, folks just keeping an eye on? Yeah, I mean, actually, I think we've almost subliminally hit on many of these things already. But I see two things that are just coming to a head, especially on social media today, like especially on Instagram and
00:27:16
Speaker
on TikTok and these places where I think maybe a younger generation is kind of working some things out or trying to work some things out. And here are those two things. One, you've already identified it is this idea that God desires are good, right? Which is a true statement. God does desire are good, okay? But then here's the second one that is happening. And I think these two things are actually imploding together in a sense. The second one is this idea of deconstruction.
00:27:42
Speaker
And I don't know if anybody has been hearing, like I'm just in the process of deconstruction. And what is that? What does that mean? That you're in a process of deconstruction? And what does it mean for the believer who is all of a sudden being faced with questions about their faith? I'm sure Sean is going to get into this with the reliability of scripture and apologetics. And his dad obviously has done a brilliant job in all these areas. But when we don't have solid foundational theology,
00:28:11
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These good questions that we should think through are not being filtered through the substance of the gospel. All of a sudden, and this is what I think is where the two things are combined. They're actually filtered through what's best for me. What is my good?
00:28:27
Speaker
And so when the filter of your deconstruction is based off of what's good for me, it's what you already said, Pat, we become the aim of our own affection. We become the aim of our own glory. We become the aim of the entire story. And when you and I become the aim of the entire story, it is truly not just deconstructive, it is destructive completely. And so I would say one of the things to be on the lookout for is this idea
00:28:56
Speaker
that this is, again, basic theology, but that the story of Scripture revolves around you. And this may feel offensive to some people as I say this, but the story of Scripture is not about you. The story of Scripture is not about me. The story of Scripture is about a good God who created good things and is in a process of new creation, of recreation, and restoring all of creation. You know, there's a global cosmic
00:29:24
Speaker
It's not reality. And then the mystery of the gospel is simultaneously the same good God cares about every hair on you, on your head, on my head. And he cares about where we sleep. And he cares about our hurts and our pains and our suffering. And he's got a solution for all of that. And the solution is a guy named Jesus, his own son. And so we have to orient all of these things rightly through theology so that we don't get to a place where we build up a fabricated theology.
00:29:54
Speaker
that the goal is to substantiate wherever our emotion or wherever our feelings lead us to. And that's what I'm seeing right now on social. That's what I'm seeing on TikTok. I'm seeing justification for things that the scriptures really clearly identify as either beneficial or non-beneficial for humans.
00:30:13
Speaker
It's either sin or it's not sin, you know, and and we're saying actually the Bible doesn't really say that you know like like like we're not really understanding because God really cares about my good and here's how I'm feeling about these things and that's just gonna lead us into a world of hurt I love what Paul says in Ephesians like for I think it's in verses like 20 through 24 He does this whole thing about putting off your old self and putting on the new self, you know, and
00:30:37
Speaker
I do think deconstruction is actually really important, but let me be super clear on what I mean by that. Deconstruction is super important in the sense of you're deconstructing the old self. This is Paul's language. You're taking off the old self, the sinful self, the self that is destructive to you and to everybody around you, and you reconstruct by putting on the new self.
00:31:01
Speaker
You're clothed in Christ. That's what Paul, whenever he talks about the language of in Christ, in Christos, in Greek, that means that we are wrapped up in the life and goodness and the resurrection power of Jesus himself. And so there is deconstruction and reconstruction, but the problem is we're trying to deconstruct the wrong things. And as we deconstruct those things, it's actually like just destroying everything. Yeah. Yeah. That's so good. And you've said a lot right there. And there's just, yeah, so much, I think so much wisdom in that.
00:31:30
Speaker
And so much for us to be cautious of, because I think you're exactly right. It's such an unusual time, especially over the last year, year and a half. And I know some of these things are not new, and yet they seem so much more pronounced right now. And so that is really, really good. I know we're getting to the end here towards the end of our time.
Getting Started with Theology
00:31:54
Speaker
And so I wanna ask you now, Ruth, if Ruth were on the air with us right now, she was on the podcast, she'd say, okay, let's get practical. And so she's constantly bringing me back to, okay, those are great thoughts, but let's get practical. And so I'm just hearing her voice. It's like I have two holy spirits in my life. And so Ruth is the second. And so she, I can hear her voice whispering in my ear right now, okay, get practical.
00:32:21
Speaker
And so let's end with some of those practical things. I mean, for the listener who is really, I think, interested in just learning, going, yeah, that's what I want. That's what I need. I need to grow in my biblical knowledge, my theology. Like, where is just a practical, what are some practical steps for knowing God more accurately? And how would you just encourage people to begin taking those steps?
00:32:46
Speaker
Yeah, I would say a couple things. The first one is, please do not be overwhelmed or create these list of insane expectations that the only way for you to dig into the Bible is if you know Greek and Hebrew and if you've got access to all of these commentaries and you're into old dead guys.
00:33:05
Speaker
This is the beauty of where we are today. We live in an age where God's word is more accessible to us than ever before. Your mobile device, your, I mean, literally you can Google whatever you want. I mean, this is just unbelievable. And so my very, very first great practical thing is be in his word, you know, start in one of the gospels, you know, John, Mark, start in one of Paul's letters, maybe Ephesians or Galatians and
00:33:31
Speaker
And just get into God's word and don't allow a list of prerequisites to rob you of just the illuminating work that the Holy Spirit, you talked about the Holy Spirit already, the Holy Spirit does the work of illumination. The Holy Spirit reveals God's truth to us. And so pray before you get into the word and then dig and ask questions. And then the second one follows this.
00:33:56
Speaker
You know, in 2 Corinthians 1 13, Paul says, for we're not writing to you anything other than what you read and understand. And I hope you will fully understand. Now, the problem is in the English text, you and I typically, we might assume that the you is singular. The you is me.
00:34:13
Speaker
The you is Pat, the you is Ruth, the you is enter in your name. Yet the Greek text here, the you is second person plural. So really when Paul does this everywhere in the New Testament, what he's doing here is he's saying you all. What does that mean?
00:34:27
Speaker
Paul, when he writes his letters, has in mind a community of faith. He has in mind the family of God. He does not have in mind individualism. And so the very next practical thing that you can do is to find a Bible-believing, Bible-teaching church and submit yourself to that local church pastor, to those ministry leaders, and to engage in scripture with them through that.
00:34:56
Speaker
That's so good. I appreciate that. And that's exactly where my mind was going. And so I think that is such an important piece of just digging into God's Word, but doing it together and doing it in the context of a local church. And so what resources, what are some of the must have resources? Obviously, because of what you and I do,
00:35:20
Speaker
Sometimes we just kind of take for granted that everybody knows what a Bible commentary is or software out there. Sometimes learning some of the software that's available is like learning a second language. I feel like I need to get another doctorate to figure out a logo sometimes. I know, I know, exactly. But what are just two or three resources that you would say, hey, you've got to have these in your library for personal study?
00:35:40
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, the first one is obviously your Bible, but the second is a really good study Bible. You know, I use the ESV study Bible for many, many years. I've recently started using the CSV study Bible and the study Bible notes. I just think that the CSV is just an excellent job in its translation. So I'd say a Bible and a study Bible. And the second one is a digital resource that's free. You can actually get, it's called the Faith Life Study Bible, and it's so brilliant because on your mobile device,
00:36:06
Speaker
or even online. It gives you layers of study notes and articles to help you dig a little bit deeper, but it's kind of like a guided tour. It just works kind of like the same way StudyBible does, but it also gives videos and illustrations and visuals.
00:36:22
Speaker
Um, I would say that those are kind of the, the primary things. And then if you're like, yo, I'm ready to dig into commentaries, you know, I would say there are two types of commentaries. One is like whole Bible commentaries. Um, and so it's like a commentary that, you know, goes from Genesis through revelation. And, um, I'm blanking, Patrick, what's like that? What's that? Like everybody uses, um, the commentary series.
00:36:47
Speaker
There's an NIV application series. Warren Wiersby has a great Old Testament and New Testament series. Is there another one that you're thinking of? I want to say it's Henry. I'm going to remember as soon as we get done with this, but I'll text it to you and you can put it in the show notes. Okay, we'll put it on the show notes, yeah.
00:37:08
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. But then also, NT Wright has an incredible commentary series that's called NT Wright for Everyone. And it's like, it's coming to you through every kind of every book of the Bible. And then he has his buddy, John Golden Gate, who's an Old Testament scholar that did the Old Testament for him. And so I just think that those are some just, you know, you can get on Amazon. And if you're in a Bible,
00:37:31
Speaker
Particularly, I would go and look and see if NT has anything in his NT for Everyone series. And that's such a great aid. And it's one of my favorite New Testament scholars for sure. Absolutely. Yeah, those are some great, great suggestions. And if you think of the other one, we'll link to some others as well. I'm going to go down and look at my library. I've got others I know that I'm not thinking of either that we can we can link to in our show notes. But those are some great, great resources.
Episode Wrap-Up
00:37:56
Speaker
And so Joel, thank you again.
00:37:57
Speaker
for taking the time. I know you're busy. You are, as we were talking earlier, you're working on your PhD and working full-time with Proverbs and you're a dad. And so any one of those is a full-time job in and of itself. And so I really, really appreciate your time and just appreciate your voice. We need more folks like you and just a sharp mind and a soft heart and you're speaking the truth and leading others.
00:38:24
Speaker
towards Jesus in a humble and yet courageous way. And so keep up the great work and appreciate you and appreciate taking the time to be on Root Like Faith today. Well, I appreciate it. Thank you. Well, friend, we are so grateful you have joined us. I hope you loved that conversation with Pat and Joel. Isn't Joel awesome? So listen, you can follow him at Mood Amale, M-U-D-D-A-M-A-L-L-E.
00:38:53
Speaker
on Instagram. And if we haven't met you, if Pat and I haven't met you, be sure to follow us on Instagram at Patrick W. Schwanken at Ruth Schwank or on Facebook. And don't forget everything that Pat and Joel talked about today will be at rootlikefaith.com forward slash podcast. Again, we welcome you into our family here at Root Like Faith.
00:39:13
Speaker
Would you do us a big favor and leave us a review or rating and share this podcast with your friends? It just takes a second and it's a tremendous help to us as we spread the word about root like faith. Oh, and be sure to tag us on social media. When you do that, we want to share it. We're so grateful for your help in getting the word out. Okay, friend. Well, we will chat soon as we continue our series, our summer school series. So we hope you have the best week.