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The Magnified Axe (part 1) - Ep 15
255 Plays9 months ago
It’s time for an axe-tremely axe-citing episode! Ash and Tilly have to deal with a tricky situation over at the Bazkardum Society of Dwarfish History, who want to know how to classify a recently donated polished stone axe. Luckily, they have help from special guest Dr Amber Roy - experimental archaeologist and microwear analyst who specialises in prehistoric axes. In this first of two episodes, the three questers discuss the role of axes in fantasy fiction, and what a microscope might be able to bring to the conversation.
Links
- Amber’s academia page
- Amber’s Stockholm University profile
- https://www.instagram.com/amber_archaeo?igsh=bGdidWF1N2Z6bm5y
Contact
- Email: [email protected]
- Instagram: @and.my.trowel
Transcripts
- For rough transcripts of this episode, go to: https://www.archpodnet.com/trowel/15
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Transcript
Introduction to 'And My Trowel'
00:00:01
Speaker
You're listening to the Archaeology Podcast Network. You have my sword. And you have my bow. And my trowel. Hi, you're listening to episode 15 of And My Trowel, where we look at the fantastic side of archaeology and archaeological side of fantasy. My name's Tilly. And I'm Ash. And today we're going to be talking about one of the most classic fantasy objects.
00:00:28
Speaker
Ooh, seeing stones. Um, no, not really. Flying carpets? Not quite. Ancient tomes? Okay, alright, so fine. Maybe it's not exactly a classic fantasy object, but they do feature in a lot of fantasy fiction, and most importantly, if you want a clue, they don't feature in our podcast intro.
Introducing Dr. Amber Roy and Her Passion for Axes
00:00:49
Speaker
Oh, you mean axis. Exactly. And well, well, well, as luck would have it, I've just seen someone walking along the street outside who might be able to help. Hang on a second. Amber! Amber!
00:01:03
Speaker
So what a convenience to have you walking along the street outside our office. So this is Dr. Amber Roy, who just so happens to be a professional archaeologist currently specialising in axes. Ah, amazing. Welcome. And thanks so much for joining us. It's so fortuitous. Who knew?
00:01:23
Speaker
So, Amber, welcome to the podcast. Perhaps you'd like to say a little about yourself. What exactly is your specialism in terms of axes? And how did you get into doing axes? Well, I mean, I would describe myself as an experimental archaeologist and U-square analyst. And I apply these methods to stones, but specifically stones with blades. And that means axes. Stones with blades. I have been researching axes for many years.
00:01:54
Speaker
And it's kind of, I don't know, I think this has been developing through my entire life. This is a fascination with stone and axes. I grew up in East Anglia and Flint is amazingly abundant there. So I was always trying to very poorly nap Flint. I didn't really go very well. I think when I was a child, I used to.
00:02:14
Speaker
just draw all over it instead of trying to shape it. And then when I actually went to university to study archaeology, I quickly transferred this attention to different kinds of stone axes and like coarse and ground stone. And the allure of Neolithic polished stone axes really captured my attention.
Ceremonial and Functional Uses of Battle Axes
00:02:34
Speaker
Yeah, the rest is history. I just haven't been able to escape it. I do find it funny that you say you've always had a fascination with axes. That does sound slightly morbid.
00:02:45
Speaker
Was there a particular, like, I don't know, spark point? Oh, I mean, that's kind of hard. I suppose I suppose a trip to a museum in Bangor where I studied for my undergraduate and they had this entire wall sort of polished axes. And that was probably the spark point. So it was always like it was always past axes. It wasn't that you were just like obsessed with axes in general and then
00:03:15
Speaker
Oh yeah, no, not that modern one. No, it's the stone. I mean, I'm really drawn to stone. And the more I research axes, the more I get obsessed with stone as well. So they come kind of hand in hand for me. Oh, fair enough. Fair enough.
00:03:33
Speaker
I mean, there is something really nice about finding an axe or like even just a worked like stone lithic or something. I remember finding them on site and being like, oh my God, this was smooth and nice. And then on the other side, they're all dimpled. So they are quite nice. I get it.
00:03:52
Speaker
Yeah. So what are you working on now, Amber? I'm currently in the middle of a postdoctoral research project, which is based in the archaeology research lab at Stockholm University. And I'm doing a project entitled Battleaxe Technological Lifeways. And this project looks at axes, the perforated axes, some of them are incredibly beautiful, dating to the Middle Neolithic B in Sweden and various parts of Norway and Finland. And this period is known as the battleaxe culture.
00:04:21
Speaker
And my project looks at the lives of these objects. And I'm particularly interested in looking at how the stone itself influences the trajectories of these axes. So how does stone influence how they were made and how they were used and then various different places they might end up. And ultimately also, I mean, axes are often many different types of axes, but particularly battle axes, often objects that are seen as purely ceremonial.
00:04:48
Speaker
and non-functional and they're seen as symbols of power. And because of this, it's often regarded that they can't be used at all.
Modern Uses and Scientific Analysis of Ancient Axes
00:04:57
Speaker
And my research is really trying to break down these kind of very stereotypical sexist interpretations. This is what I'm working on right now. We love the breakdown of sexist interpretations. Yeah. And what's the weirdest place? You said their lifeways, so like where they end up, what they become. Do you have like a really weird one for an axe? Does it end up in a completely different place than you imagined or like?
00:05:22
Speaker
Well, maybe not. There are a small number from bogs, but there's not very many. There are some from burials, and most of them are stray finds. Many axes, this won't be just for metal axes, but for many different types of prehistoric stone axes, they tend to be found by farmers, and not modern farmers, but when farming used very shallow ploughs, people would walk behind the ploughs. That's when a lot of objects were found.
00:05:50
Speaker
And so a lot of these axes have been in medium collections for a really long time. And then I've looked at some where the only information about the axe just says, thank you for Farmer Ted for donating this to the medium.
00:06:08
Speaker
They could have really amazing contexts and be found in weird places, but we just wouldn't know. I have heard of what happens to some axes after they've been found. In the early Bronze Age of Britain, you get really big perforated axes called axe hammers. They could be over 30-40 centimetres long.
00:06:29
Speaker
very big and heavy, and some farmers have found them, and then they've gone, oh, that makes a good doorstop, and put them down like a barn door, and others have found smaller perforated axes and hung them on string to ward off evil and things like that. So there's some odd more modern uses.
00:06:51
Speaker
where these axes end up. And what would you say, so like, there's some sort of interesting bits and everything, but in terms of the research itself, I mean, if you say a lot of them are stray finds, is it better to have contextual information about them? Or is it actually good not to have that information, if you know what I mean?
00:07:07
Speaker
I mean, it's always great to have contextual information. It's wonderful to find a look at an object that was found in a grave and it had some flint blades with it, had some pottery. You have the remains of a burial there, and then you have the possibility of doing a lot of different analysis. There's double burial from a place called Lindshapping in Sweden, which had a male and a female buried with a dog.
00:07:34
Speaker
and then also a child and a series of different objects. And they managed to do ADNA on the skeletal remains and isotope analysis and shows that these people were actually connected to Yamnaya steppe hadders and not the traditional hunter-gatherer communities that were already in Sweden, which is a really interesting element of Arsalax culture people.
00:07:59
Speaker
So having an axe placed in a burial like that connects it amazingly to all this other information. So that's fantastic. And this is often why archaeologists often are drawn to looking at objects that are from burials and settlements and things like that. But we now have so many amazing methods that we can use to draw out elements of these objects lives.
Research Challenges and Future Tech in Archaeology
00:08:24
Speaker
So
00:08:24
Speaker
A lot of my research looks at stray finds, and I can say a lot about these objects because I can delve into what the traces on their surface tell me about how they were made and how they were used, and if they had, say, multiple users and various different elements of the lives of these artifacts. And that is amazing contextual information. Yeah, you create your own context.
00:08:51
Speaker
Yeah, we are really lucky now that there are these methods that are available to us. And I think that with more developments in different scientific fields, archaeology will just keep drawing from these to find out more and more and more about the past. Cool. This is very exciting, exciting work. What's your favourite bit about it?
00:09:15
Speaker
Oh, I mean, that's very hard to pick. I think my favourite part is that I can look at interpretations that are made based on form and we have these wonderfully polished artefacts and people can say, oh, they're not used. And I love to be able to say, hang on a minute. You're wrong. That's obviously wrong.
00:09:42
Speaker
Yeah, and useware is an amazing tool to be able to do that with.
00:09:47
Speaker
And so is that like kind of the double, the other side of the ax? And like it's the most frustrating thing as well, that people have these misconceptions about the objects. Yeah. I get very frustrated really when I, I've published information about the function of battle axes and how they are not purely ceremonial and people still are like, Oh yeah, but surely they can't be used because they're too fragile. Surely this. So that's very frustrating.
00:10:16
Speaker
And it's also kind of frustrating doing the research because it takes such a long time. I can sit in museums with a microscope for hours and days and days and days and days. And it would be really wonderful to have that and just do something really quickly. But I mean, that's the nature of the research.
00:10:36
Speaker
Yeah, and like you said, technology will advance and then hopefully you won't have to sit for hours and hours and hours and hours and you'll get this information quickly soon. Yeah, we'll see. Wouldn't it be great to be able to just scan it? Like you just scan the object and it's like, yes, here are all these patches of use wear. This is, you know.
00:10:54
Speaker
this kind of trace. That'd be lovely. Yeah, you know, I actually had a conversation with an archaeologist yesterday about 3D scanning and whether you could use it for useful analysis. And I actually think that with the maybe not now, but we're not very far away from being able to use things like RTI and 3D scanning to replicate the surface digitally. And that would be amazing. Yeah, one day we'll be
Fantasy Fiction and Archaeology: A Harmonious Blend?
00:11:21
Speaker
able to do that. I'm sure that will be out of a job.
00:11:29
Speaker
So you say that, you know, we've talked a bit about your kind of archaeological background, but of course, we here are not just doing archaeology, we're doing an archaeology of fiction, specifically fantasy fiction. So do you, first of all, do you enjoy reading? And second of all, do you enjoy reading fantasy? Yes, both. Excellent. I love to read, I mean, not just various different genres in books.
00:11:55
Speaker
But fantasy is probably one of my top ones. I love to read anything that draws me into a different world. And yeah, I mean, fantasy is brilliant for that. Are there any particular favourite books or series? Yeah, there's a series by an author called Maggie Fury. It's called The Artifacts of Power, which actually the title is quite relevant to my research.
00:12:21
Speaker
And it's about this mage called Orion and there are four books and they follow her life and how she she's like this young power, very powerful female mage and she's struggling against evil and she has to search for these artifacts of power to basically save the world. Which is what you're doing in your research. Oh, that sounds great. I've never heard of these. Have you heard of them Ash?
00:12:49
Speaker
I think I have. Yeah. But I've never read them. I recommend them. They do sound like classic fantasy, like proper magic, sorcery, world saving. Yeah. They're like late 80s, early 90s. Well, this is what I was thinking. I was thinking, have you read the Axis trilogy by Sarah Douglas, starting with Battle Axe? Oh, you know, I haven't. I should do that. That's very appropriate for me.
00:13:16
Speaker
You could include so many quotes in your papers. Yeah, maybe that'd be like a really good paper title. Yeah, exactly.
00:13:27
Speaker
So, great to have you here, Amber. Now that you are here, maybe you can help us with the following situation. So, picture the scene. It's a rainy day outside, so the perfect day to start working through the many, many boxes of artifacts that have just been delivered from all the different excavations that are happening outside the city walls at the moment. Suddenly, there's a sharp rap at the door.
00:13:48
Speaker
Ah, and you open it to see two dwarves waiting on the doorstep, carrying between them a box that is really too small for two people to be carrying it, but they are both gripping it with determination. They inform you that they are representatives of the Bazkardum Society of Dwarvish History, and they need some help with the classification of an item that was recently donated to them. They hand you the box, admittedly with some apparent reluctance, and you open it to see a gleaming polished stone
00:14:18
Speaker
acts. So do you think you'd be able to help us with this issue, Amber? Yes, I think so. Yeah, perfect. Awesome. Well, then I think that calls for a cuppa. I'll just go and pop the cauldron on and we'll be right back. Here you go, everyone. Some lovely chamomile and honey tea to get us, you know, properly cozy. Oh, thanks, Tilly. I don't drink tea, but thank you. Okay, I've done it cold for you, of course.
00:14:51
Speaker
So I'm actually quite interested to learn more about these axes. But Tilly, I know you said that it's a classic fantasy object, but how often does it actually appear in fantasy fiction?
00:15:05
Speaker
You know what? Now that you say it, I'm trying to think there's a lot of swords and daggers and all of those kind of things in fantasy, but there's very few, although you did mention that series talking about axes at the beginning, but I had a very brief look through the resource that you sent me last time about what I can't remember what it's called now, the fantasy encyclopedia. Encyclopedia of fantasy. That's the one. And they're sort of not
00:15:32
Speaker
loads of examples. There's quite a few examples of axes. But in terms of fantasy fiction, there's actually not loads of examples. Usually, they're sort of considered more of a functional weapon rather than having like special powers. So you have so many books about like this sort of, you know, blah, blah, blah. And it's got some special thing that, you know, I mean, King Arthur is a classic, right? But
00:15:53
Speaker
axes are usually just sort of, oh, and he had a mighty axe, like a mighty weapon. So it's always associated with kind of very fierce warriors and sort of fierce characters and everything. Which yeah, so I don't know if either of you have had different experiences of that in your fictional adventures.
00:16:09
Speaker
Well, I mean, you've kind of got different axes and it depends on the category of character, doesn't it? Because often when I think of axes, I think, obviously, dwarves and axes and Gimli. And then I think of, like, berserkers as well. The kind of, you know, Norse Viking-esque character that they often have that is easily to anger. And they often have a big axe or they have throwing axes.
00:16:35
Speaker
and stuff like that. You see that a lot in fantasy, but I can't actually think of a lot of many fantasy protagonists, I suppose, that wield axes, other than the series that I talked about before by Sarah Douglas. And I think
00:16:51
Speaker
I think there's another one that I've read a few years ago called The Sky in the Deep and that's based on kind of Norse.
Axes in Fantasy and Mythology: Symbols of Strength
00:16:58
Speaker
They characterise it as Viking which always reminds me. And that has wielding axes in it and that's like the first time I've really seen it in a more
00:17:08
Speaker
And she's not a shieldmaiden, neither the main character. Woohoo! Oh my god. Can a Viking woman not be a shieldmaiden? Apparently not. It's like the Lagatha complex or something, I swear. It's interesting seeing that, they're like, no. So yeah, I often see it with dwarves usually, different kind of fantasy races and stuff. So what about you, Amber? Do you have any particular axe favorite fantasies?
00:17:37
Speaker
I mean really only fine axes coming up in like you said dwarfs is usually dwarfs and in those contexts they are like an extension of their hand and it treated a little bit like swords are for everybody else. You rarely see a dwarf with a sword. That's a rare thing. A dagger? Do you think they would have a dagger? Probably some kind of dagger.
00:18:00
Speaker
I'm trying to think what Gimli has in his repertoire. I think he does have some kind of little dagger that he brings out occasionally. Yeah, but his axe is very special to him, isn't it? Yeah. That's really important. And that's very different to everybody else. They use very different objects and weapons.
00:18:21
Speaker
Yeah. Which I guess the idea with specific to dwarfs of it being like axes are very relevant to dwarfs is because it comes from like they were originally mining tools and then it kind of developed from there because dwarfs are associated with mining and stonework and kind of hitting things, I guess, and all that kind of stuff. And so you have
00:18:44
Speaker
Then also, when I was reading up about this, I found some other things. So for example, in Lord of the Rings, the kind of assumption is that there's dwarves and the axe, and then dwarves hate elves, and elves love trees, and axes chop down trees. So that's why dwarves like having axes. And that's one of the theories that I found. And guess, Ash, what other fantasy series features dwarves and axes? Oh, I've heard about that actually. Is it Discworld? It is Discworld! Oh my god!
00:19:15
Speaker
You never would have guessed that, you know. What I do like about that one is that they have the dwarves and they have axes. Instead of dwarves and elves being arch enemies, it's dwarves and trolls being arch enemies in that one. But you have a kind of ongoing thing about dwarf emancipation because in this world all dwarves are male.
00:19:36
Speaker
but they're not obviously, but they all refer to themselves as male. So every dwarf is a he, but then in one of the books you have a new character and suddenly it's a she. She refers to herself as she. And it's like this whole big thing and the whole of dwarfish kingdom. But anyway, and then that becomes a whole thing throughout it. And so it's then like dwarfish women want to still have their battle axes and their big axes, but they make them like jewel encrusted or, you know, they make them pink or, you know, something like that. But it's still axes are still seen as kind of the ultimate dwarfish weapon.
00:20:04
Speaker
which I think, yeah, in pretty much every fantasy thing, if you have dwarves, you'll have axes. Yeah, they're entangled so much with the person that wield them. They're the symbol of the culture, the people and everything, the history. So that's very interesting when we're talking about, you know, axe lifeways and, you know, object agency and stuff. So yeah, it's very, very interesting that it all connects. Yeah. Yeah.
00:20:32
Speaker
Amber, do you have anything as you've sort of been studying axes for longer in terms of kind of mythology from archaeology? Because I guess that's where a lot of fantasy comes from.
Axes as Symbols of Transformation in Fantasy Narratives
00:20:42
Speaker
What would you say are kind of the big axe wielding cultures or the sort of axe wielding myths of our time?
00:20:49
Speaker
I think ideas about axes tend to come from Norse axes, Viking axes, and they're the ones they call battle axes, and there's lots of contemporary mythology about the use of different axes. And an axe isn't that far away from Thor's hammer in terms of, I mean, it's just a blunt axe, right?
00:21:08
Speaker
I think we actually see this this reflected on interpretations of prehistoric stone axes you know we have a nihilistic and early Bronze Age stone battle axe and they have the name battle axe
00:21:31
Speaker
that comes from somewhere. And the idea that the people who are buried with these axes are warriors and they're high status, and this reflects a lot of interpretations of axes later in history. Yeah, that's quite interesting how it kind of
00:21:48
Speaker
influences fantasy and then back again and everything. So could it have been then that if people hadn't thought that axes were always associated with battle and ritual and everything, that actually all fantasy would have been really different? Like if they hadn't, you know, you were saying that there's the stereotype that, you know, pre-historic axes were used as ritual or sort of ceremonial, and if you're buried with your great warrior or king or whatever,
00:22:13
Speaker
If that stereotype hadn't been around, if instead people were like, oh, so he was clearly a great woodcutter, then Gimli would have been a very different character. Do you know what I mean? Fantasy development would have been really different, which is an interesting thought experiment. Doesn't Loki, the god, have an axe? Does he have an axe? To kill the rooster that sits upon Yagrassil.
00:22:40
Speaker
Oh, you know more about the mythology than me, I think. I'm not so... I'm not very good at it. But no, I'm sure he has an axe because it means like their name was corrupted over time. And then in the like 1700s, the name changed to like Leviathan or something like that. But like it was, was it the Hyattin or something like that? This axe that it was basically like a twig.
00:23:05
Speaker
essentially that was meant to cut down the main golden rooster that sat on the three golden roosters that sat on Yagrassil to bring about Ragnarok or something. The name is meant to be like cunning. So it's like the opposite of what we think of axes. We think of battle axes and like blood and terror. Actually, this is quite a wielding kind of cunning weapon that you would have. I don't know.
00:23:33
Speaker
I remember something. And you also do have, I think, a lot of fantasy where there's usually a character who's not necessarily a great warrior or, you know, something. And they kind of, at some point, have to, you know, take up an axe. And that's sort of the metaphor of them finding their strength and, you know, like, and everyone always laughs because they're like, are you a silly little girl with your
Personal Connections and Cultural Stories Involving Axes
00:23:58
Speaker
axe? You know, how's that going to help you or whatever? And then
00:24:01
Speaker
she whirls it around and kills them or something. But I don't know. I'm trying to think. I swear there's some fantasy that features something like that. I mean, there's that kind of strength thing, isn't it? That you need to be a certain body type and you need to, but then it kind of, it's meant to, you're meant to, it's like the underdog, similar to our Dark Lord sort of thing. The underdog always wins and always prevails through that wielding of the weapon. Scary big weapon. Yeah, you also find
00:24:29
Speaker
People say if someone gets called to war or a fight and they're not soldiers and they have to grab their own weapons. But what do you grab? You get what you have at home sometimes. That's an axe. Yeah. Yeah, you'd be chopping wood, wouldn't you?
00:24:44
Speaker
Yeah, that's what you'd have. And that also features quite a lot, right, in underdog things or in not even just fantasy, but things and people are going, yeah, but we don't have any weapons. And, you know, you look around, it's like axes and plows and hoes and all these things are sort of classic farmer tools. And they, yeah, it's how you perceive it.
00:25:07
Speaker
And if you think about it as well, I'm just thinking of my own partner and how he comes from a crofting background. And mostly they're very sturdy people, you know, and they do have to wield axes and they have to, so you get this kind of.
00:25:22
Speaker
characterization probably from that, that there's a farm boy who's got that kind of strength, you know, because he's been throwing bales around. And then he's like, well, I'll take up my axes. And he's got double wielding axes, you know. So yeah, I can imagine that happening a lot in fantasy. It makes it quite a transformative object. You can become something else by
00:25:46
Speaker
suddenly using it in a different way. Yeah. I like that. That's very cool. That's proper object agency right there. You are influenced by the axe. If you hold an axe, people look at you a lot more differently than if you're holding like a feather guster.
00:26:01
Speaker
Oh my God, that's why, like, personally, right, I've got two axes. I mean, I've mentioned this to Tilly before. One is not really an axe because it's a tomahawk, but still. And my friend gave me that because he said a woman should always have an axe in the house, which I thought was interesting. And then I also, my partner bought me another one, but it's for cutting pizza because I don't like cutting pizza. I've seen them. They look great.
00:26:26
Speaker
And it's got like runes on it and everything. It's like probably decorated. And he was like, you'll feel better with this tiny little hand. This kind of pizza is great. It's the best thing I've ever bought, really, so. And I do, I feel like a Viking every single time. Like, yes, there you go. See, it's giving you purpose. It's giving you that feeling of strength and, you know. And if there's like a burglar, that will do some damage, so.
00:26:55
Speaker
ever forbid any burglar ever try to burgle an archaeologist's house because we have all kinds of random things lying around the place.
Wrap-up and Listener Engagement
00:27:02
Speaker
Oh yeah, I have a lot of heavy stone. Yeah, but you do. Heavy bladed stone, I think you called it. Do you have any things that can cause a lot of cranial damage?
00:27:17
Speaker
Do you have any personal private axes around your house, Amber? I have six axes that I use in experiments for my PhD. They're currently not in my house, they're sat next to me in my office. They have range in location, depending on where I want them. Give me a drink of your breath. I also have quite a collection of random rocks that I pick up all over the place.
00:27:43
Speaker
Oh yeah, that's nice. It's getting a bit of a rock corner. The problem is with those sort of collections is that you have them. I remember we used to have one. We used to do it every time we went hiking, we'd pick up a rock at the top of the hill and then bring it back down with us again. But then you would mass this collection of stones. And like you say, they're just heavy rocks, which then when we moved out, we had a box. And my friend was lifting. She's like, God, what's in here? I was like, wooden rocks.
00:28:11
Speaker
I have a really cool flint call and it's like a crime rate as well. And it's definitely been worked and I just found it and I was like, yes, love it. So yeah, that was a good find for me. Yeah, very nice. Oh, hang on. That's another knock on the door. Oh, looking through the window, I think I can see, oh, it's that delivery of, speaking of wood, it's that delivery of ancient wooden chests that we'd ordered, Ash.
00:28:37
Speaker
Oh god that's absolutely typical that they were supposed to deliver those yesterday and I waited five hours in in the house waiting for these bloody delivery to arrive and they didn't. Well we better make the most of them finally being here then so we'll just quickly cut short this episode of Am I trial but don't worry we'll be continuing our chat with Amber all about axes in our next episode with part two.
00:29:00
Speaker
In the meantime, we're always looking for new episode ideas, so if you have any suggestions, do get in contact via email or social media. All of our contact information plus all that we've been talking about today can be found in the show notes. Bye!
00:29:19
Speaker
This episode was produced by Chris Webster from his RV traveling the United States, Tristan Boyle in Scotland, DigTech LLC, Cultural Media, and the Archaeology Podcast Network, and was edited by Rachel Rodin. This has been a presentation of the Archaeology Podcast Network. Visit us on the web for show notes and other podcasts at www.archpodnet.com. Contact us at chris at archaeologypodcastnetwork.com.