Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
#28: How to raise a safety pro
111 Plays6 years ago
Podcast series host Jill James connects with Debra, a lecturer at her alma mater, the University of Wisconsin-Whitewater in the Occupational & Environmental Safety and Health Department. Debra received her formal safety education at the school in the early 1970s, making her a pioneer in what remains a male dominated profession. Often the only female in class, Debra’s experience started with whispers of “She won’t make it” and ended with “May I borrow your notes?”. After earning her degree, Debra found work as an engineer in the loss control division of a large insurer. She went back to the school to earn her Masters and found herself lured into teaching a few classes part-time, and hasn’t stopped since. You’ll learn—through Debra’s example—why learning continuously is so critical to success in the safety profession.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Background
00:00:10
Speaker
This is the Accidental Safety Pro brought to you by Vivid Learning Systems and the Health and Safety Institute. My name is Jill James, Vivid's Chief Safety Officer, and today I'm joined by Deborah. Deborah is a lecturer at the University of Wisconsin Whitewater in the Occupational and Environmental
00:00:27
Speaker
Safety and Health Department. And if any of you are listeners of the Accidental Safety Pro, you may have heard about Deborah before. In Episode 19, we talked with Siobhan.
00:00:43
Speaker
And Siobhan is that one safety pro who actually knew since she was a kid, she wanted to be a safety pro. And it's because she was raised by this guest today, Deborah Ishvan's mom. And Deborah, welcome to the podcast. Thank you. So, Deborah, it's so great of you to agree to join us because I think Siobhan sort of set you up for this.
00:01:08
Speaker
Like, yeah, you should hear from my mom. Thank you.
Entering the Safety Field
00:01:12
Speaker
Thank you for inviting me. Oh, yeah. You're so welcome. So like all of our guests, who want to hear your story? You've been in safety now for how many years?
00:01:24
Speaker
Oh gosh, okay. Since I was an undergrad, I did not start in the safety arena. I was really looking at maybe going into journalism when I was an undergrad.
00:01:48
Speaker
took some journalism classes and said, OK, this is not exactly me. It just wasn't a good fit at the time. So I was trying to decide what I was going to do. And actually, I had a friend of mine, a friend of the family, actually, who was taking classes in the what was then known as the safety studies department.
00:02:19
Speaker
And what university was that at? University of Wisconsin, Whitewater. Yeah, UW-Whitewater. And he was taking classes. And one day we started talking and I told him, I said, yeah, I think I'm going to change my major. And he said, he told me, he says,
00:02:40
Speaker
You might be interested in taking some safety courses. I think you would be okay. And I'm like, safety courses? So he explained it to me. And he told me...
00:02:54
Speaker
that, yeah, I think you could do it. He said, you don't seem to be afraid of men. And I'm like, OK.
Early Career Challenges and Growth
00:03:00
Speaker
Oh, no, what does that what does that mean? Right. You know, you said you seem to be able to hold your own. So so I was like, OK, you know, so and every and everyone who's listening in the in the audience knows what Deborah is talking about, because the the field has been classically
00:03:21
Speaker
male-dominated. We're making headway, but we still have a way to go. So I think I took Intro to Safety was the name of the course. And so I took Intro to Safety and it was an introductory course and I took
00:03:42
Speaker
a couple of other courses, and then I eventually took what was then known as industrial accident prevention, and I was hooked. Yeah, I was. What hooked you?
00:04:01
Speaker
learning about what could possibly go wrong, how people can be injured in the workforce and what can be done in order to, if not prevent the injuries, at least mitigate the injuries. And the more safety classes that I became enrolled in, the more interesting it became.
00:04:26
Speaker
to me and and and my friend was right because oftentimes I was the only female sitting in class at that particular time so because we're talking the the 70s here there okay 70s so
00:04:46
Speaker
But I wasn't afraid, and I could hear the whispers and, what is she doing in class? You know, there's a girl, she's not gonna make it, you know, this has got, blah, blah, blah. And it went from, it went from that to, hey, can we borrow your notes? You know, so, as far as that was concerned. But I really became interested, it was different.
00:05:11
Speaker
And it's funny because I kind of think back from time to time. For example, when I was in high school and I decided that I wanted to take the drafting class.
00:05:28
Speaker
And that hadn't been opened up really to girls in high school. And I pushed and my mom pushed because I really wanted to try it. And I was the only female in there.
00:05:45
Speaker
I guess it was just something that was going to be, you know, for me as far as that's concerned. Yeah, you're a groundbreaker, you know, as far as that's concerned. So but I became very interested in that. And and I'm happy that I stuck with it, you know, as far as the field goes. So it's been rewarding for me. Yeah. So you you completed you finished your degree at Whitewater. Right.
00:06:15
Speaker
Yeah, and and what were you what were you thinking the career might be like what did you think I didn't sort of yeah What did you think you'd go in like where I didn't know I had I did my internship
00:06:30
Speaker
at a cannery, which I found very interesting. The person that oversaw my internship while I was there also was, and he was the safety director, but he was also involved in other sister plants, if you will.
00:06:54
Speaker
And so sometimes he was there and sometimes he wasn't. And when he wasn't,
Career Development and Teaching
00:07:00
Speaker
because it was really almost like a one man show as far as the safety department is concerned. So I was the one that was on duty. And I, you know, it was a good experience, everything from a gentleman almost having
00:07:19
Speaker
his eye put out because he was standing too close to a truck when they were removing a frozen lug nut and it ended up hitting him just above the eye and here's little me trying to convince him to
00:07:37
Speaker
that you need to go to the hospital. You have to go to the hospital. So everything from that to a person that lost part of his finger. So it was interesting. And I kept wondering, what am I going to do? Where am I going to go?
00:07:52
Speaker
So what I did was I lucked out after graduation with my bachelor's degree. I had a friend that was working at an insurance company.
00:08:07
Speaker
in the engineer in the loss control division. And he talked to his boss about me, said she just graduated. She's a female and gave him some background information. And so I was invited to submit my resume and I ended up being a loss control representative at that point. So that was great.
00:08:35
Speaker
Which means you got to see so many different work environments, I'm guessing. Exactly, exactly. And it was an eye opener. Sometimes it was frustrating because I had to really earn my bones, so to speak, because depending on where I went to do audits and the like,
00:09:06
Speaker
It depended, that depended on also how I would be received because there were still men out there who, geez, she's a female, why is she doing this? I
Family and Safety Mindset
00:09:20
Speaker
even had one that asked me, shouldn't you be at home taking care of the kids? Your husband should be doing this.
00:09:26
Speaker
this job, so it was interesting. I'm thinking about the timeline that you're talking about. You were in school in the 70s, you said. The OSHA Act had just been enacted in 1970, so not only is this whole regulatory landscape brand new to employers,
00:09:50
Speaker
exactly you as a female are carrying that new message right and you know for for many of us as as females in this industry um you know we've we've experienced and heard what you're talking about i personally i personally haven't been told that i
00:10:10
Speaker
I'm taking a job from a man and I should be at home because I'm that much younger. See what I did for you. Yeah, I know. That's exactly what I'm thinking. I am standing on your shoulders. Thank you. But I have had the question of or the comment
00:10:32
Speaker
Wow, when you came here today and I saw that you were a female, I didn't think I'd learn anything from you. But you surprised me. Or, you know, are you married or, you know, those sort of, you know, been hit on in my professional job as a government regulator many times. Right, right, right. And so those are interesting waters to navigate when you're trying to do your professional job. So I'm thinking about you being
00:11:02
Speaker
young, female, 1970s, wow, that's a lot. Right, so I worked there for a while and decided, you know, hey, I had taken a couple of classes towards my master's and decided to finish then my master's degree.
00:11:29
Speaker
but was always grateful for the time that I was out there in the field. Like I said, it was interesting. I learned
Diversity in Safety Programs
00:11:40
Speaker
a lot when you're talking about
00:11:46
Speaker
being an engineer in the loss control division, you go to so many different establishments, learn about the different hazards and trying to convince those that are older than you to do things in a safe manner. So you take what you learn, you know, as time goes on
00:12:11
Speaker
And eventually then was asked to teach a class. It was supposed to be a class. At U.W. Whitewater. Right, at U.W. Whitewater, it was supposed to be a class. Because I was trying to decide, do I want to go back out in the field?
00:12:31
Speaker
had my second child, I had Siobhan, bless her heart. And what my children went through, yes, I did quite a bit of safety. We do want to hear about that piece of the story, too. Please keep going. Right. And it was supposed to be for a class. I was actually asked by the then department chair, hey, why don't you maybe take a class, I mean, teach
00:13:00
Speaker
a class you've taken just about you've taken all the classes we have to offer at that particular time and the like but the program has really grown since then and it led to hey can you come back and it was part-time at first and then full-time and
00:13:18
Speaker
Yeah. How have you seen in the years that you've been lecturing at Whitewater, how have you seen the department shift and change and grow from the student's perspective? What's the evolution been like? Because Whitewater has been around for a long time and very well regarded.
00:13:41
Speaker
I know and I'm proud to say that. Yes, the program and the department has grown a lot. We used to be in the College of Education and now we're in the College of Business.
00:14:05
Speaker
And we are, like I say, the classes that are available, I have told students over the years, you have no idea, those that are majors, for example, you have no idea how lucky you are. You should be, you should really feel proud in the classes that we are offering because some of the classes we have now were not available.
00:14:31
Speaker
to us when I was a student. Our department started out more in the education arena when you're talking about motor vehicles and the motor vehicle arena.
00:14:47
Speaker
And so over the years, we've gotten into more of the industrial side. We've gotten into the environmental side as well. And it's just great. It's just wonderful. So it has grown quite a bit. It has grown quite a bit. And so has the number of students that we have in our program.
00:15:13
Speaker
And the diversity, I bet you've seen a shift, you know, since you were the sole female in the class. Right. Oh, yes, there are more. There are more women. It is still male dominated, you know, when you're talking about the arena as a whole, but
00:15:34
Speaker
We have had more females and we're attracting more females into the program. And it's good to see that they realize that, yeah, you can do this too. And it's a great opportunity. You learn a lot of things. You learn things in this field that you can take with you and just incorporate it into your life. You can incorporate safety into your life.
00:16:04
Speaker
I like knowing what can possibly go wrong, you know, and what I can do to prevent that. Right. Speaking of incorporating it into your life, let's talk about how you hand raise the next
Mentorship and Influence
00:16:20
Speaker
generation of safety professional in your own home, which is so fabulous. So first of all, thanks for bringing Siobhan into the industry.
00:16:32
Speaker
But what was that like when you're a young mom and you're bringing... I know what it's been like for me, but I'm interested to hear from your perspective. Yeah. What did safety at home look like and what did you transfer to your kids? Well, I just thought it was really...
00:16:50
Speaker
important the more that I learned about safety and the things that can go wrong not only in the workplace but when you're talking motor vehicle because like I said we started out our department in driver's education okay so you know so what can go wrong when you're driving what can go wrong in the home
00:17:19
Speaker
You have to be very careful when you're talking about fluids and chemicals and all these things in the home. And I was trying to determine, okay, how can I
00:17:33
Speaker
How can I pass this on to our kids? How can I let them know what some of the dangers are in the world without scaring the Fijibas out of them and having it where they would be afraid to actually
00:17:50
Speaker
go you know enjoy life and go rain and go outside and play and things of this nature so i just tried at each level of their age to explain to them as as best i could without scaring them that these are the things that you need to do uh to be safe
00:18:12
Speaker
OK. And no, she did not. She did not get the eye roll. Siobhan didn't tell you that part. But sometimes, you know, I would get the eye roll. But but but they they started to to get it. They started to understand it. And I think it was because they saw some of their friends
00:18:41
Speaker
who ended up having accidents or things go wrong because they did not adhere to safety or listen to their parents and things of this nature. So yeah, we had fire drills, you know.
00:19:00
Speaker
we had we had fire drills and and and they were taught to please because stabbing your foot with a lego on the way out the door so if anything if we had to leave in an emergency we wouldn't be slipped tripping and falling all over the place and and
00:19:19
Speaker
Right, exactly. And I had latches, you know, on the cabinets that they could reach and things of this nature depending, you know, on the age. And somewhere in there it seemed to stick more.
00:19:37
Speaker
with Siobhan, she didn't seem to realize it at first, so she was trying other things and we let her try, you know, other things, other interests. And then finally she, I think I'll take a couple of safety classes, you know, I might be able to handle that.
00:19:57
Speaker
And it went from there. My eldest daughter, Kalinde, she decided to go a different route in the banking arena, which is fine. But at least she can be safe. Right? Exactly. You set a good foundation for both of your daughters. I tried. I tried. I tried.
00:20:20
Speaker
And it rubbed off on my husband, too, I must say. That's excellent. I've done I've done exactly the same with with my son. And we have, you know, I have to say I haven't done a fire drill with him, but we talk about gathering locations.
00:20:36
Speaker
And we talk about gathering locations if there's a catastrophic incident in the community. We live in a community with a switching station in a rail yard. And every once in a while, there's some kind of accident where there might be a chemical spill. So we've talked about, where's our gathering location?
00:20:56
Speaker
And living in the Midwest, we also have tornadoes. And so we have a go kit for that. We live in a place that does not have a basement. And so we have a plan for where we go and then a kit that we grab to take with us with the weather alert, crank radio, and the flashlights, and the things that we would need to leave quickly to get to a shelter. And so he knows that.
00:21:26
Speaker
Right. I went over information not too long ago, especially when we were still having the really cold weather and the heavy snows and went over winter safety with my students in class and talking about those things, winter safety and, you know, kids for your car, kids for your home.
00:21:54
Speaker
uh the whole the whole bit you know for that so yeah and how to how to keep your exits open in your home when the snow is piling right exactly so yeah so safety definitely a transferable skill to your home life it's yeah it's it's um as i used to tell my children i said you know that
00:22:16
Speaker
those when you learn and you practice I say they become tapes in your mind that during you know emergency situations or or even if it's not emergency but if you have to make you know a quick decision I said they go off automatically
00:22:38
Speaker
So I told him, I said, you don't have to think, you know, every day or before you get out of bed, oh, no, what can go wrong? I said, but, you know, the tapes are there and I've tried to do my job and now it's up to you to listen to those tapes. I said, think about it as being
00:23:02
Speaker
a little angel, if you will, on your shoulder and listen to that angel, because she's trying to tell you something, you know, as far as that goes. And some of the same thing I try to instill in my students.
00:23:21
Speaker
So Deborah, when when you were getting started in the early parts of your career, did you did you have mentors or how did you you know, how did you continue expanding your knowledge base and who did you go to with questions? How did you make those like connections and networks with people? Okay, actually, they were the individuals that were
00:23:47
Speaker
in my department that I ended up actually working alongside becoming a member in the department. Jerome Witherill, he was our department chair. We had Joseph Pease, I used to get information from and ask questions and try and get some guidance.
00:24:15
Speaker
Al Mims, who was a very tough bird to say the least. He was a no-nonsense kind of guy that shot from the hip. And I said, if nothing else, even though sometimes he could drive me crazy and make me angry, as a student and as a colleague,
00:24:40
Speaker
you know you would get a straight answer from him about things and there were others. So they were kind of like mentors to me as I was going through the program because it could be tough sometimes if you were sitting in the classroom.
Professional Memberships and Advocacy
00:25:01
Speaker
and the only female. That could be kind of difficult, but I made it through and received good guidance from everyone in the department when I was going through the master's program. And like I said, next thing I know, I started teaching a class in 83.
00:25:29
Speaker
And then as time went on, I had different individuals and places where I worked that were mentors for me. And it was just a great experience. It was a great experience.
00:25:51
Speaker
And at first I wasn't sure if I really wanted to teach per se. I was really looking to go back out in the field. But one of the things I liked about it was I was still sharing the information that I had learned, you know, my experiences.
00:26:15
Speaker
in the classroom setting. And I enjoyed the students, and I enjoyed all of the interactions with the students.
00:26:30
Speaker
And that part I really liked and I also have to say that I like the fact that I was close to home because we lived in whitewater as well and I was close to home and the kids were in school and
00:26:48
Speaker
So, you know, if anything came up, I was there, right? If anything came up, I was, boom, mom's there, you know, as far as that goes. And I just kept up with my learning because I think this is a field, actually, I think
00:27:07
Speaker
any field you're in but especially in the field of safety you have to continuously learn and grow and expand and learn to accept differences of
00:27:24
Speaker
each generation of students because students change. Yeah, right. So through your career in the past and up to now, are you a member of any specific organizations or sit on any boards that have afforded you different opportunities to either learn yourself or to engage with the next generation and mentor people?
00:27:53
Speaker
I'm a member of the Institute of Safety and Health Management, that's ISHIM, and I have a certification through ISHIM. I'm a certified safety and health manager, a member of the National Fire Protection Association, the NFPA.
00:28:16
Speaker
and I'm a member of the building fire safety system section of the NFPA. What else have I done? I've served as the interim director of the educational opportunity program at UW-Whitewater. What's that? Basically that's for
00:28:41
Speaker
minority students used to focus primarily on minority students and trying to those especially those that might be first year
00:28:58
Speaker
college attendees, university attendees, and their families, offering them, you know, financial assistance and advising and helping them with their classes, things of that nature at the time. So I've done that. I've sat on
00:29:27
Speaker
Numerous, numerous committees at the University, also at the UW level, University of Wisconsin level. So I've been busy since 83. I've been busy. Yeah, right, right.
00:29:51
Speaker
So some of those memberships and places that you belong, have any of them, do you enjoy one more than the other or look to some for your own professional guidance so that maybe someone listening, you know, who hadn't thought about a membership to the NFPA or something like that? Right. Yeah, what has that afforded you? I like them all. I do.
00:30:18
Speaker
The NFPA, one of the advantages there is one of the classes I used to teach was the fire protection and prevention course. And the NFPA has a monthly journal for its members.
00:30:37
Speaker
And I love the fact that I could really keep abreast of what some of the problems were out there as far as fire prevention, fire protection, some of the different systems as far as fire suppression is concerned, what some of the problems were when it came to fires in confined spaces, et cetera.
00:31:08
Speaker
So, you know, any organization where, you know, I actually have journals and the like coming to me, I really see as an advantage. When it comes to ISHAM, for example, I like the fact that there's great contact with a lot.
00:31:30
Speaker
of individuals out there, safety individuals out there that have different types of certificates in various fields.
00:31:42
Speaker
one of those groups where if you needed help or you needed advice or you needed information of which you are not very clear on, you can get in contact with those individuals that you have out there. So yeah, I like them all. I like them all. Yeah, interesting. You had mentioned the
00:32:09
Speaker
the organization that you were part of or maybe still are for diversity in in the is it at is it at specific to whitewater? That was specific that particular one was specific to to whitewater yeah and that was that was quite some time ago for that one yeah yeah yeah
Advice and Modern Teaching Methods
00:32:30
Speaker
yeah very good very good
00:32:33
Speaker
Well, I'm wondering, um, so you encourage Siobhan or at least you guided her to choose, to choose a career in safety. Has that happened with any of your, um, students by way of, have you encouraged any of them to, to teach like, like you are? Right. Um, that's a lot of students, right? No, no.
00:32:59
Speaker
I actually have a past student of mine, her name is Tracy Buckley, and I actually have
00:33:12
Speaker
her as a colleague now in our department and I'm not going to say that you know she oh because of Ms. Bowen but she speaks oftentimes you know especially we have a woman
00:33:31
Speaker
Women in Safety Day is part of a larger gathering for the Colby and S College of Business. It's a larger gathering of students that come in and many of them are
00:33:51
Speaker
from high school we have quite a few that are minorities and she always lets them know and at our, she always lets them know that Ms. Bowen was an instructor of mine, she'll tell them, she was in my class and who else? Wayne Cole is another person I think that was on the
00:34:19
Speaker
graduate level. I think I had him in my fire class and he was one of my students. He was what you call a non-traditional student. He was an older student. So yeah, but it feels good when I have students. I've had a couple already this semester who told me that
00:34:41
Speaker
they were going to switch their majors and become safety majors. And I said, oh, how many safety classes have you taken? And they said, you're the first one. So that's awesome. So I've got I've gotten that over over the years and students that will come back and
00:35:00
Speaker
introduce their kids to me. And I remember when I took you, Ms. Bowen, as an instructor, so. What an awesome legacy. It makes you feel old, too. Yes. I am getting to know that feeling quite well when a shift happened in my head probably, I don't know, maybe three years ago when I was thinking, gosh, I don't have a mentor right now. And I've always had at least
00:35:29
Speaker
two to three mentors in my career. And the people who've mentored me, well, they've passed away. And I'm looking away. That's what happened to me. Yeah. So I'm looking around the landscape going, gosh, I need a mentor. I don't have one. And then a colleague of mine said to me, you are the mentor now. And I'm like,
00:35:51
Speaker
Oh, man, that's a lot of weight. That's a lot of responsibility. I kind of like having a mentor. I know. I know. It's like, oh, no, I broke too much. We have to find different ways to get mentors for ourselves.
00:36:12
Speaker
Right. It's just like in a family when you realize that a lot of your elders have passed away and then you have family members
00:36:25
Speaker
that, like, cousins that'll call you and say, I need your advice. And you realize, oh, shoot, am I an elder? Right. Exactly. As far as that goes. But like I said, it's been a great learning experience for me. It's been wonderful.
00:36:52
Speaker
Tell us more about this Women in Safety Day on the campus, what happens, and you said you bring in kids from the community, and so are you working to support the idea that safety is a career path within the STEM disciplines, or how does that work? Well see, it's actually, it is, we have groups from various high schools,
00:37:17
Speaker
that will come in and we have different what we call stations where they will actually learn
Addressing Safety Concerns
00:37:31
Speaker
about different programs in the business college. And we're now part of that.
00:37:42
Speaker
And we let them know what we do in our department and give some demonstrations and let them ask questions. Because what we find is, especially when it comes to occupational safety, that students more readily hear about all the other majors that are out there.
00:38:11
Speaker
still trying to get the word out and get them to know
00:38:17
Speaker
that there is actually a major in occupational safety of what it's all about and things of that nature. So it's really great when they come in, they have all these questions. What is your major about? What is it that you can do if you receive a degree in the major?
00:38:46
Speaker
Of course, you know, is it something where you can make a good earning? And I go, yes, it is. So as far as that goes. And that happens on an annual basis. We have that going on. So yeah, it's really great. And especially since we have a lot of females,
00:39:12
Speaker
That come in that yeah, you know Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Oh, that's such a that's such a great thing that you're doing as a as a value to your community and to the and to the students What you know what advice
00:39:33
Speaker
do you have for anyone maybe just starting out in their career? Maybe they have an educational background in safety, maybe they don't. What sort of things do you think they should be leaning into or advice you have for success in this career path?
00:39:55
Speaker
You have to be steadfast. You have to accept responsibility. Be professional. Get to work on time.
00:40:12
Speaker
And you have to stay abreast. If you're going to be in the field of safety, no matter which field you decide to choose, if you're talking about being in loss control with an insurance company, if you're talking about being
00:40:31
Speaker
a safety director at a company, opening up your own loss control, maybe firm eventually. Or if you're talking about being a student, you need to be studious and you need to continue learning in this field. And like I said, keeping abreast with OSHA, keeping abreast with
00:41:00
Speaker
NFPA, when you're talking about their regulations, their standards, things of this nature. So that's what I would tell them. And things have changed. It takes a little bit more to keep the interest of students nowadays.
00:41:31
Speaker
And so, go ahead. Well, I was going to say, as things, like you said, as things have changed and evolved, what have you learned from your students? Because I bet the information sharing goes both ways. It does. What I've learned is they want
00:41:56
Speaker
Their information more seems electronically. We do have our graduate program, for example, is online. We find that more students like that, that they are able to get their master's degree online.
00:42:17
Speaker
We are in the process of getting our undergrad classes online as well. They like a little bit more bells and whistles. They are not thrilled about everything being
00:42:44
Speaker
PowerPoint. So I'm a, I'm a PowerPoint, but I throw in some video clips and I also put things on the board and I also talk to them and ask them questions, you know, so that they can be involved and have more interaction.
00:43:14
Speaker
They like a little bit more detail when it comes to like assignments and things of this nature. They want as much detail as possible. And I also have been learning
00:43:35
Speaker
in all of that, and especially with the interactions, what some of their fears are in this world today. It's been kind of rough, you know, for them. I've even gone so far, I really didn't want to, but the last couple of semesters, even though the chance of
00:44:02
Speaker
them being involved in an act, you know, an active shooting event is very low.
Conclusion and Gratitude
00:44:10
Speaker
I thought it would be a good idea to go over that information, give them an idea of what they can or what they should or should not consider what can possibly happen and things of this nature. So,
00:44:29
Speaker
Yeah, I am learning what their fears are. Yeah, right. Personal safety is a great concern to our youngest generation right now because it's been so much in their face. Yes. And they were raised at a time where not only were they practicing fire drills in their schools, but they were practicing lockdowns. Right. And that's something that you and I didn't experience when we were growing up.
00:44:55
Speaker
But what I do tell them is do not be afraid, go out there, live your, you know, live your lives and enjoy yourselves. You're young. Don't stay locked in your house or in your dorms or, you know, in your apartments or whatever. I said just be aware.
00:45:18
Speaker
of your surroundings and enjoy yourselves. I said, when I was in school, when I was an undergrad, I said, yes, you have to be a serious student. And that should transfer then over to be a serious worker.
00:45:39
Speaker
and that type of thing, but you need to enjoy life as well. So. Yeah. I'll share something with you to share with your students when they're talking with you about those concerns about their personal safety. Something that everyone, including your students and yourself, anyone listening to this podcast can
00:46:05
Speaker
can access and I'm gonna I'm gonna do a shameless plug but it's really it's really absolutely coming from the heart. A couple of years ago we wrote an online active shooter course that's offered free from our website and it'll always be free and anyone can access it.
00:46:25
Speaker
and the story behind it is my colleague and I, Barrett, were attending a safety conference and there was a speaker from the East Coast who was speaking about active shooter response training and he was so compelling in his
00:46:47
Speaker
discussion about why it was important and what was important to include in training specifically brain research he was citing about how run hide fight is fine however we have this amygdala response in our brains
00:47:06
Speaker
to react you know with that the bear is coming at us like caveman days and so we freeze and so we can't decide to run hide or fight until we override that amygdala response to to be able to do that and how to train your brain to do that and so we were really interested in that and together
00:47:26
Speaker
We wrote the content for this Active Shooter Response course, which included that research on amygdala response, but it also includes information on situational awareness and how to just practice and train yourself when you're in environments to just be mindful of, where are my two ways out of this?
00:47:51
Speaker
So that once I can override that, I know where I'm going. So I can make a choice that I've already paid attention to, but it's not limiting me from living my life, like you said. And while we were in the midst of putting that together, we approached one of our coworkers at our company at Vivid, who's a survivor of the first school shooting in US history in Moses Lake, Washington.
00:48:19
Speaker
And we asked him if he would please share his story so that we could have a testimony on a story that went along with the course. And he graciously agreed as well as his teacher from that time, which is a junior high teacher.
00:48:35
Speaker
who stopped the shooter that day. And so the two of them tell their story throughout the course. And what we learned from one of the many things that we learned from my coworker, Chris, who tells his story is what they were thinking when they were kids at that time and what gunfire sounded like. He said, you know, we heard these noises in our school and we all thought it was dogs barking.
00:49:02
Speaker
Because they didn't have a framework in their mind for what real gunfire sounded like versus Hollywood gunfire and what you'd hear on TV in a movie and so we have a listening exercise in the course so that people can differentiate that so they can hear those sounds in a safe environment and the course is what we call G rated it's not meant to scare anyone and so it's safe to share with kids and
00:49:26
Speaker
It's safe to share, you know, with faith communities and with your family and friends and certainly with your students. And yeah, and so that's something. Yeah, it's it's called active shooter response training and it's on our website and anyone can have access to it at any time. Yes, you can use that with your students. To it. That's great. Yeah.
00:49:49
Speaker
I don't spend a lot of time on it because I don't want to scare them, but I did spend enough time. And like I said, let them ask as many questions as they wanted to ask and took them around the building.
00:50:16
Speaker
that were in Highland Hall and gave them an idea of where their exits were. And I said, no matter what building you may be in on campus or if you're downtown or wherever you are, to just be cognizant and try and identify, like you say, at least two exits. But it takes practice, you know, like anything else. And what saddens me, and I told them that,
00:50:46
Speaker
that I'm really sorry to have to feel like I need to have this conversation, you know, with you. But we live in the times we live in, so what can you do, you know?
00:51:03
Speaker
And it's a powerful conversation. And one, like you say, it doesn't have to make people think that they can't live their lives and be joyful. It's just like, let's build this into our fabric of paying attention to other things that we'd be paying attention to in our lives.
00:51:22
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So great tips, Deborah, you know, being being steadfast in your work, whether as a student and being professional and staying current. You know, I think I think that's one of the things that safety professionals really can struggle with is like when there's so much information out there, how, you know, how do you approach staying current? And, you know, I think it's I think it really depends on where you work.
00:51:49
Speaker
and you know kind of what the discipline is where you are and which resources or sources you should be paying attention to and yeah right. Right and having a mentor you know is very beneficial as well whether you're talking about
00:52:11
Speaker
you know on the job or even if you're talking about an older student uh if you're still a student an older student that can tell you you know what this class is about and what that class is about and things of this nature um but but they need to develop the skills that will make them when it comes to students yeah i was gonna say what are those skills what are those skills you started out as a journalism major right writing is also
00:52:43
Speaker
Writing skills, writing skills and being able to verbalize your thoughts and being able to speak to those individuals that may be of a higher level, if you will, than you are in the company.
00:53:12
Speaker
And doing what you're supposed to do and realizing that everything is not going to come with bells and whistles. That's just not going to happen. So you still have to make sure that you have focus.
00:53:37
Speaker
And when you do get bells and whistles, be happy. Well, you know, I think that's a good point. The bells and whistles part, you know, the safety profession and the tools, if you will, the 21st century tools that are afforded to so many other disciplines. Safety is kind of behind the curve in many respects.
00:54:00
Speaker
And we have a ways to go and many of us are working to shift that for the safety profession, but that's a good point. But yeah, but and then when it comes to those that teach, trying to be relaxed, letting the students know that I don't know everything. And you know where to look.
00:54:24
Speaker
and you know right exactly if there's something that's what you know getting them to realize that's what you need to to do if you don't know you say you don't know but you go out and you find out and that's why you have to keep you know keep abreast
00:54:44
Speaker
So I try to have, I let them know that I want to relax class. I do not want them so relaxed that they jellyfish out of the chair, or their chairs, or they hold their own little conversations.
00:55:02
Speaker
I am lecturing the class or asking questions that I am approachable. But, you know, of most importance is treating me with respect. I will treat you with respect. You know, I expect you guys to do the same, you know, with your peers in the classroom.
00:55:30
Speaker
And you learn those things so that when you go out there and you do get a job, you realize that you get respect by earning it and you should, you know, you should do so. You should work at it. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Good tips, Deborah. You know, I think.
00:55:51
Speaker
safety professionals by and large you know when I'm doing onboarding with our employees and they're asking about what safety professionals are like and and I said you know they almost always have these really big hearts for humanity like they really care about people or they wouldn't or they wouldn't be or they wouldn't be in it
00:56:12
Speaker
Right. Exactly. Exactly. And you have to care, you know, as far as that goes. And I think we, I think we all do. And I think that's why we stay in this profession.
00:56:26
Speaker
Yeah, along with having an inquisitive mind. I think that's another trait of many safety professionals is we have this want for learning more and we like the fact that our profession is sort of there's always something new around the next corner that you didn't know. Yeah.
00:56:45
Speaker
Right. I'm getting some updated information. I've been looking at more details as far as things like suppression systems and the like. I am a big advocate of suppression systems, those things that can
00:57:04
Speaker
that can put out of fire quickly to save lives and things of this nature. So I'm a little behind in my NFPA journals and I saw an article. So that's the next thing I'll be taking a look at.
00:57:24
Speaker
You're here to hear. Deborah is still just getting started, which is so great, which is so great for our profession. Deborah, thank you so much for being with us today. And really, thank you so much for placing your hand on this career and raising the generations of safety professionals that you have, including in your own home. Thank you for having me. I've really enjoyed the session.
00:57:53
Speaker
Very good, very good. And thank you all so much for joining in today and listening and thank you for the work that you all do to make sure your workers, including your temporary workers, make it home safe every day. And special thanks to Will Moss, our podcast producer. You can listen to all of our episodes at vividlearningsystems.com and you can find that Active Shooter Response class there as well. Or you can subscribe in the podcast player of your choosing to find the Accidental Safety Pro and you can also find us on YouTube.
00:58:22
Speaker
If you have a suggestion for a guest, including if it's you, please contact me at social at vividlearningsystems.com. Until next time, thanks for listening.