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Reflections on the History of CCDA
192 Plays5 days ago
Dr. Lorenzo A. Watson is joined by Wayne “Coach” Gordon to reflect on the history of CCDA and the CCD Philosophy. Coach shares his story and how he got involved in CCDA, the history of the CCD Philosophy, and how he’s seeing God move in his neighborhood in North Lawndale.
Wayne Gordon is a graduate of Wheaton College and Northern Baptist Theological Seminary. He received his Doctor of Ministry degree from Eastern Baptist Theological Seminary. In 1975 Wayne moved to North Lawndale, located on Chicago’s Westside. At that time, North Lawndale was the 15th poorest neighborhood in the U.S. He was a teacher and coach at Farragut High School, also located in North Lawndale. Wayne and his wife Anne have raised their three adult children: Angela, a graduate of Taylor University, Married to Nate George, lives in Chicago and is a school teacher; Andrew a graduate of Baylor University and a trader with the Chicago Board of Trade, married to Stacy, and Austin graduate of Azusa Pacific University, living and working in New York City. Wayne and Anne, along with some local high school students, founded the Lawndale Community Church. Today, LCC has over 1000 worshipping families and Wayne continues as Pastor Emeritus.
Dr. Lorenzo A. Watson serves as the CEO/President for the Christian Community Development Association, headquartered in Chicago, IL. He is an experienced community development professional; a leader, teacher, and scholar who has long centered his work at the intersections of wholeness, education, and Biblical justice.
Learn more about CCDA and how you can get involved at ccda.org. Connect with CCDA on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn. Follow CCDA on YouTube.
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:00:09
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the CCDA podcast. My name is Lorenzo A. Watson and I serve as the president and CEO of CCDA. I am your host for this episode and I am joined by a very special guest.
00:00:23
Speaker
I know we say that all of our guests are special, but this one is really special, especially to CCDA, he is special and to me as well because he let me sleep in his house even though I woke him up with my snoring.
Wayne Gordon's Journey to Urban Ministry
00:00:37
Speaker
ah Today, I want to introduce my friend, Dr. Wayne Gordon, who we all know as coach. How are you, coach? Great, Lorenzo. and but you know you never woke me up snoring because I slept on the second floor. You slept on the first floor.
00:00:52
Speaker
ah but Sounds good. Yeah, great to be together and and and particularly about thinking about CCDA and how special that is in all of our lives and our connections with that. And it's been great.
00:01:06
Speaker
Excellent. Well, you've done a lot of a lot of ministry over the years, and I don't know which one you're probably the most proud of, but I want you to introduce yourself to our listeners and tell them just a little bit about who Wayne Gordon is.
00:01:24
Speaker
And I'm going to put you on the spot and ask you to say, what what are you most proud of from your from your ministry part? Okay. Well, have you know I've had the privilege of being here as the pastor of a church on the west side of Chicago in a neighborhood called North Lawndale. It's predominantly an African-American community. if you're from Chicago, you've heard of of North Lawndale.
Challenges and Early Ministry in Lawndale
00:01:49
Speaker
But I kind of got here by way of when I was in high school, I really sensed God calling me to do the kind of things that I'm doing now. I didn't know. I didn't have a label, didn't know what CCDA, it hadn't been invented yet.
00:02:01
Speaker
But then I came to Chicago the summer after my junior year when Ray Bakke was one of the people I came and worked with who's been a big, big part of CCDA. He's with his Lord now in heaven. But Ray Bakke was one of the first people to help me think about quote unquote urban ministry And he wrote a book entitled Urban Ministry, as a matter of fact, but and it has one called Urban Christian and Atheology is as great as the city. So all of these things are important. But then then I went back, graduated in high school. and when was it And then I went to Wheaton College. And so when I was a student at Wheaton, Chicago became just a place I fell in love with. And I thought the best thing I could do to reach people would be to be a high school teacher and a coach.
00:02:45
Speaker
And so I started looking for a place to coach. And it was through the Fellowship of Christian Athletes that man by name of Guido Marchetti had become a Christian, and he wanted to incorporate his faith with his coaching, but he had been coaching for 20 years, and so it was a new experience for him. So when he heard that there was this young Christian coach front that played football at Wheaton that was interested, he got in touch with me and immediately was very interested. So I did that. Farragut was basically an all African-American school on the west side of Chicago. It was unfortunately out of about 100 high schools, it was ranked right at the bottom of that. And so it it had a lot of the trappings that we often call
00:03:25
Speaker
by negative names like the ghetto or the inner city. We've certainly learned through CCDA, and we'll get into that about ah language and how important language is.
Founding a Community-Driven Church
00:03:34
Speaker
The word, just to even throw it in right here at the beginning, the word that we often use now, we've we've tried to think of different words about the poor or hurting communities, but now we've we've kind of landed on most often using neglected communities, that communities that have been neglected by others and powers in society have become, quote unquote, under-resourced. But so anyway, Lawndale and Farragut were both of those. So then what what do we ended up doing is I got a job teaching and coaching and I did something very unusual. I moved into the neighborhood and I i just sensed that's what God wanted me to do. I wanted to have a little Bible study in my apartment.
00:04:12
Speaker
And so we I got a little ah three-room apartment, started having ah opened up a fellowship of Christian athletes, started having kids come to a Bible study and and and not big, you know, I'm talking seven to 10 kids on ah on on a week evening to do Bible study. You know, really what happened is that we started this FCA and then our school didn't have a weight room. So I bought a weight machine. and put it in the in the community, and some people helped with the financing. So together, we pooled our resources, bought a weight machine, and if we put it the school, we couldn't get to it because they locked the school up, can't get it on on the weekend, can't get to it in the summer. So we put it in a little storefront. I moved behind it. All the athletes were a part of fixing it up. And then...
00:04:49
Speaker
We, we, I got, I, after two years in, I got married, which was the, really the, the, the, and I wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for my wonderful wife, Ann. And we got married and she right away was, wanted to move to Lawndale, wanted to move in and be a part of things. John Perkins loves to tell the story of our first night in Lawndale because our very first night in Lawndale, we went to church, came back, and our apartment had been broken into. And everything in it that was of value had been stolen. And it was the first time my father-in-law had ever been there. We had picked him up at the airport, went to church, came back.
00:05:23
Speaker
So it was pretty hard it was a pretty hard experience and for me and for Ann, of course, with her with their mom and dad there. And so we got, they were going to spend the night. We got them bedded down and Ann and I are sleeping on the floor in the back. And everybody told me, you can't be married. You can't bring a wife to live with you in Lawndale. I don't know why you're doing it, but you certainly can't bring a wife.
00:05:44
Speaker
But yet Ann was willing to do it. After we got her folks bedded down, I said to my wife, I said, you know what, honey, I think that People were right. I think I've made a wrong decision. This has to be a sign from God. Your first night in Lawndale, our apartment got broken into and we lost our our our things of value.
00:06:03
Speaker
And so, you know, I think we probably should move that God's telling us that. And Anne looked at me at that moment, and I'll never forget this. And she said, you know, honey, I love you and I wanna live here.
00:06:15
Speaker
I
Growth and Patience in Ministry
00:06:16
Speaker
was ready to move. I had bad theology. I had the theology, something bad happens, God's telling you not to do it. She had good theology is that, you know what? Sometimes things are gonna be hard, but that doesn't mean that God's not walking with you. And in CCDA, these are such important principles to learn.
00:06:31
Speaker
And so we stayed. Kids were coming to FCA. Girls started coming. She had a girl's Bible study. I had a boys. And what ended up happening was the kids weren't going to church. They were coming to Christ, but not going to church. So we did a study on the meaning of church.
00:06:46
Speaker
And as we did this study, we started thinking about what church is all about. And when we got done... The kids from um from Farragut and Lawndale understood that a church is not a building, it's not a denomination, it's not a doctrine, but it's people who are committed to Jesus that gather together and that when we come together, we have church. So I said to the kids that the boys that night in Bible study, you know, they told me all day, let's just start meeting on Sundays. I said, no, let's pray about it, which meant I didn't want to do it.
00:07:13
Speaker
I go upstairs that night, Ann's up there, and Ann says, you won't believe what the girls said tonight. I said, what did the girls say? She said, they think we ought to start coming to the weight room and having church on Sunday. So then we thought, well, maybe God is in this. So we prayed, and we said, well, God, if you want us to do this, we'll do it. We said to the kids, what kind of church do you want to have? They said, a church for people like us. We said, who are people like you? They said, people who don't go to church.
00:07:36
Speaker
So 1978, we established a church, and I just covered a whole book in five minutes. But anyway, i tried to get through it fast because we want to talk about CCDA. but So Ann and I are living in Lawndale.
00:07:49
Speaker
We started a little storefront church for kids that don't go to church. And we're talking 10 or 15 people on
Formation of CCDA and Early Influences
00:07:55
Speaker
Sunday. After three years, we only have you know we only have about 15 people. But then that's when we started getting together with Urban Ministry. And kind of the story of CCDA is that, well, let me back up once. John Perkins came to Wheaton College and spoke my senior year.
00:08:12
Speaker
And when he got done speaking, I thought to myself, and I just said to God, I remember praying, I said, God, that's what you're calling me. What he talked about, I know that's what I'm supposed to do. He didn't even use Christian community development in 75. So then so...
00:08:27
Speaker
i i was so profoundly affected by God's Holy Spirit that I went out on the front campus. I didn't even confront John, but I knew that was it. John wrote Let Justice Roll Down.
00:08:39
Speaker
He wrote that. I moved into Lawndale in 75. John wrote the book in 76. I got it right away, read it. John Perkins became my mentor, even when he had never met me.
00:08:51
Speaker
And I began to read the things that he had written and those kinds of things. So now Now, those of us, there you know there's a group of people that are working in the inner city that are Christians, and and we get invited to things. When we would get together, it would it be interesting. We'd go to the sessions, but then pretty soon we would navigate and we would just congregate together.
00:09:11
Speaker
And these are people like like Mary Nelson and Kathy Dudley and Ted Travis and and John Perkins and Dolphus Weary. you know, Harvey Drake from Seattle. I mean, when I could go on and on, but there was about 15, 20 of us that we would be invited to these things. They weren't really that practical force. And we started getting together. And the president of Voice of Calvary Fellowship at the time was a man by the name of Lem Tucker.
00:09:36
Speaker
And so Lem Tucker would be at all of these too. And Lem started thinking about, and as we would talk, why don't we just start getting together? I want to pause right there because many of the things that you've mentioned, you know, I think we We could probably you know go really deep in a lot of the different areas. But I'd love to hear more about just some of the landscape that you all were living through or or living it in. right
Social Justice and Christian Communities
00:10:01
Speaker
Because you know we've we've often heard about you know the the the famous you know meeting, O'Hare Airport, which I think you were getting to that point.
00:10:12
Speaker
But I don't know that we really often kind of talk about just kind of what was going on in Christendom at that time that was either energizing this group or or felt unsettling. like Just talk a little bit more about like what what was the what was the but the feeling, the ethos of the moment.
00:10:30
Speaker
there there was There was a radicalness in Christianity in the 60s, and then it kind of became calm. And there was a little bit of what I might call a little bit, and particularly in the evangelical community, a little bit of ah of turning their back on some of that, you know, and a little bit of ah of changing that.
00:10:48
Speaker
So the 70s, I think what happened is you was that people said, let's get back to Christianity, just people getting saved and going to church. And so that's kind of what been happening. And so what happened then with those of us who sensed a call to justice, you know, to sense the call to to caring for the hurting people, to who who saw the scriptures that were talking about God's heart for the poor.
00:11:13
Speaker
yeah and when we Those of us that were were involved in that, and those are most of those names that I just mentioned and many others, people would look at us and they would say, you know what? You are preaching the social gospel and that's not the gospel. And so early on, housing was, you know, slum landlords were taking over Lawndale. And so it was really hard to get a decent apartment. Martin Luther King Jr. moved to Lawndale in 1966 and lived in an apartment building just ah three blocks from where our church is today. And he lived there and he came to to to
00:11:47
Speaker
shed light on and to bring a spotlight on slum housing in neighborhoods like North Lawndale. And he actually lived there with his family and off and on for over a year in 1966. So what happened was people were were were telling us that this is not the gospel. And you know I remember a church that
CCDA's Philosophy and Founding Principles
00:12:08
Speaker
we went to to get some money that was going to support us, a suburban church. And they said, what do you need? And we went and we needed to do something in housing because there's inadequate housing in North Lawndale. What happened was when it got to the elders, the elders said, no, you know what? We're not going to fund housing. We don't fund housing. We fund evangelism.
00:12:28
Speaker
Well, You know, you don't really need much money for evangelism. You just help your people to know to tell people about Jesus. And so I think the the the environment why I think probably was CCDA was so critical back there in the late 80s is that through the late 70s and early 80s, there was this backlash against evangelism.
00:12:50
Speaker
you know, getting out there and making a difference. And we got labeled the social gospel and that's not the gospel they said. And, and it was all on loving God. And, you know, in CCDA, we bring both together through the great commandment to love God with all of our, Jesus said, the great commandment, to love God with all of our heart, soul, mind, and strength, and to love our neighbor as we love ourselves. Well, loving God, that's the, that's the get saved gospel. Okay, if I can use that language and loving our neighbor, that's the justice gospel and and righteousness and justice, righteousness and justice. And so these things began to play in and we all understood that because we're in the middle of living in it. We'd all been influenced by John Perkins and all these people that that that were that were coming and we were getting together. We all lived in the heart of the inner city and it was difficult.
00:13:37
Speaker
So I think that was somewhat of the landscape, of Lorenzo. And and so... CCDA was ripe. And so we would talk about, I'll never forget one day, a Lem Tucker was in Chicago and he came by to see us.
00:13:49
Speaker
And let let me talk a little bit about Lem Tucker because he was the yes he was the president of Voice of Calvary Fellowship. he really He was John Perkins' replacement to do that in Jackson, Mississippi. So it made a a very big deal. So Lem's in Chicago. He's the one that really was leading the charge to start CCDA.
00:14:07
Speaker
and And so we're sitting at my kitchen table and he said, you know what, let's just do it. let's let's let's Let's have a meeting and maybe we could do it in Chicago and maybe we could just have people fly into the airport. So this all was his idea.
00:14:20
Speaker
it was It was that he was going to be the president of CCDA. I was going to be the vice president. John was going to be chairman of the board. okay So we had the meeting at O'Hare, about 50 people came and everybody said, yeah, let's do it. And so then we decided to do it and we'd probably do it in the fall. This was like in February.
00:14:38
Speaker
So we'll do it in the fall of, and this is 89. As soon as that meeting was over, Lem Tucker contracted a very, deadly form of cancer that people didn't know much about. And it was untreatable back in the late 80s and 89. And he died in June. that That was hard for us, but we decided to keep going. And so John Perkins was chair and he was he was the he was the the the Moses of our movement. yeah But Lem Tucker was the practical one to begin to do that. And unfortunately, he passed away.
CCDA's Inaugural Conference
00:15:14
Speaker
And so then when we organized, the true story is I walked out of the room. Right. And when I came back, they said, Coach, you're the president. ah So it and that's that's kind of the way it happened.
00:15:26
Speaker
This is really good. So where where we are now, we can really, we can sort of see the the seeds of of CCDA, like those early days of what this movement looked like, you know, from the, from, i guess, the the conversations at your house all the way through to that initial, that initial gathering.
00:15:49
Speaker
if If you would, say a little bit more about what what the first gathering was like, not the you know just the lead But yeah you know right now, for our members, you know they're accustomed to our conferences you know at yeah at the large venues and a couple of thousand folks. But talk to us about you know what those...
00:16:10
Speaker
early days were like. Most of us felt all alone in in the work we were doing. So, you know, and when we when we would meet each other, say, oh, wow, you're doing the same thing I'm doing. And we were all influenced by John Perkins.
00:16:24
Speaker
And so we were influenced greatly by those first three R's. Some of us, i moved to Lawndale before I knew a relocation was one of the principles. but yet And God led many other people to do that too, like Glenn K. Ryan in Chicago, like Mary Nelson in Chicago, and and others that didn't read anything of John, but it was a Holy Spirit doing it. And we didn't know anybody else was doing it. And so when we started to get together at like these conferences that were not sponsored by CCDA, but Christian gatherings, and we would find each other, The thing that was so, so powerful and rich is that we had this deep understanding of each other, which is really Christian fellowship.
00:17:04
Speaker
you know And we would begin to have that gathering and keep getting along and seeing, oh, and you experienced that and and you experienced this.
Listening to Community Needs
00:17:13
Speaker
and And so we were having these these this camaraderie of fellowship. So I think our early meeting, particularly the first conference or two,
00:17:21
Speaker
Just, you know, when 140 people showed up at Lawndale Community Church in October of 89, I mean, we were we were we were we were shocked. We were hoping for 50 to 100. We had about 50 at the airport. So we thought it might be the same 50, but everybody brought a person or two. And all of a sudden it turned into 140 Yeah.
00:17:41
Speaker
And what we when we ask people, what do you what do you really want, that there were two or three things people wanted in the early days of CCDA. And it probably hasn't changed much. Number one, we want to be able to share stories.
00:17:53
Speaker
And we we want we want to just have somebody that we can deep fellowship and talk with. Second thing is we want to be taught. We want to be taught the word of God. We want to be taught what it is and what God's word says. And from the very beginning, CCDA has been grounded in the word of God. If we don't see the Bible teaching it, we don't teach it as as as a philosophy. we teach we you know We all do a lot of things that aren't biblical per se in the Bible.
00:18:21
Speaker
But they they follow biblical principles. And so people wanted to be taught the Bible and taught what God says about the poor and these kinds of things. And then I think the third thing was kind of the question of how to do ministry. You know, how do you set up a housing ministry or how do you set up something for education and how do you supplement the the pool the school system? That was a big one for us in Lawndale.
00:18:45
Speaker
Chicago public schools were known as the worst school system in America. Secretary Bennett under President Reagan, he's the Secretary of Education, came to Chicago a number of times. Every time he came, he said the same thing. Chicago public schools are the worst in the nation.
00:19:00
Speaker
Well, you know, I know how I felt when he said that. It made me feel like a terrible father because our kids, Ann's and my kids, were in Chicago public schools. I mean, what are we doing to our kids? So how do you so do something that supplement supplements the the public school system? Because that's all really most kids can afford.
00:19:19
Speaker
And that's where tutoring programs and how groups did it. And they began to grow. So how how do we do? How to set up a medical clinic? We opened our medical clinic in 84. So about five years before CCDA started.
Evolution of CCDA's Principles
00:19:32
Speaker
And, you know, we were small, was just but we we were responding to the needs. John used the word felt need concept. That's what he began to teach us. It was such a good teaching. In our eight key components now, it's listening to the community. But it was like, we don't go into a neighborhood and we tell them what they need.
00:19:52
Speaker
We listen. And then we work together to build something. And so... That's what happened at Lawndale. And we were doing that before we knew John, you know, but we knew we got to listen. And he and he often called it the felt need concept, which now it's listening to the community. And we keep we keep refining our words for where we are today. You gave me a good segue into into the next part because you were just talking about the the CCDA principles.
00:20:20
Speaker
And so the next question is just to give us a little peek behind the curtain on on how the philosophy evolved. Because we know with Dr. Perkins, there were the three R's and then you know now we we have the eight. but But help us to understand what that evolution looked like.
00:20:39
Speaker
Because I think you know oftentimes you know you know organizations will will put out theories of practice that come from academia, but the CCDA principles are grounded in biblical understanding as well as just on the ground work, front lines work. So talk more about that.
00:21:01
Speaker
So, I mean, John Perkins was going around and he was just, God was using him to speak all over the country. And he had learned when he came back, when he came back he he left Mississippi because his brother was shot and killed and he he just couldn't be there anymore. And so yeah by by by the sheriff, by the local sheriff, he moves to California. That's where he becomes a Christian.
00:21:21
Speaker
And then he hears God calling him back to Mississippi where he never wanted to go back And so when he comes back to Mississippi, he begins to build the build the ministry as, you know, and like we build the road as we go. we don't He didn't know where he was going, but he knew he wanted to reach the kids for Jesus. He wanted to help them and he wanted to help their lives to be better. He didn't want to just love their soul.
00:21:47
Speaker
He wanted to love love them as a whole person, which is biblical. we We don't just love a person. We're called to love our neighbor, not just our neighbor's soul. And so John began to do that. And then John came out of the the first three R's, you know, the three R's. He just began to, out of his own practical ministry, relocation, reconciliation, and redistribution. Relocation for him. John Perkins' relocation was to leave California where he had a good life, a good job, and relocate back and to return back.
00:22:22
Speaker
I often use the word returners, that you know a lot of people leave and return. and In Lawndale, we have people like myself who relocated to Lawndale. We have returners, kids who go off to college or the military, or they just moved out for a while. They return. And then we always have the the remainers.
00:22:40
Speaker
There's a lot of people in our CCDA ministries that never left. And so those three make up the people who are there. And John always meant for relocation not to be a bunch of white people moving into black communities.
John Perkins' Influence on CCDA
00:22:53
Speaker
That's not the mind that's not what he was thinking about. He was talking about the people from the community returning you know and relocating back to where they grew up with their skills and resources. Yes. John began to, he lived that, but he began to preach it. And Dolphus Weary and Artis Fletcher were the two that went all the way to Los Angeles Bible College and then came back to Mendenhall, Mississippi. andolphus And Dolphus and Artis Fletcher are still there. So then the second one was reconciliation, to be reconciled. John john understood. this That's the evangelism part, reconciling people back to God and then reconciling people across these racial lines.
00:23:31
Speaker
So right at the end of the 60s, John began this work, and it was in 1970 that he was put in jail. And it was there that he that he had actually prayed while he was on the floor after he'd been beaten. And when he was praying, he he realized, and it's an unbelievable thing that John Perkins realized then, while he's on that jail floor, he realized.
00:23:53
Speaker
That racism has not just damaged black people, but racism has damaged white people. That's where reconciliation, we've got to have a preach a gospel that's big enough and great enough to to bring people back together. Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount says, love your enemy.
00:24:13
Speaker
you know Don't just love your neighbor. you know You've heard it said, love your neighbor and hate your enemy, but I'm saying love your enemy and pray for those who persecute you. And then redistribution is like, okay, we got to help people living in poverty for all kinds of reasons.
00:24:30
Speaker
Neglected, they've been neglected and they've been, racism is a big part of that, particularly in the early days. that we need to figure out how we can help people to get education and to be able to build skills.
00:24:43
Speaker
And that's the redistribution and to bring services and skills and things back to communities to help people. So John preached that everywhere he went. that's Those three still are the the guts of CCDA. But then
Holistic Community Development Approach
00:24:59
Speaker
we and in the board meetings, we started asking, okay, now how do we do that and what are the ways that we do it? And we began to realize and talk through. And John used this language. We began to put it together.
00:25:11
Speaker
And we so we added five more to them. But one was John always talked about leadership development. And the the the biggest proponent of leadership development, though, in CCDA in the early days was ah Tom Skinner. okay And Tom Skinner challenged me in the early days of Lawndale. He used to come by and help us. He said, you've got to raise up a new generation of black Christian leaders for this community.
00:25:34
Speaker
But he said it'll take at least 15 years to do that. So leadership development became a big part of Christian community development. And then, and then of course, church-based. It's through the local church. CCDA believes in the local church. We're not trying to replace the church the local church. I don't even like to call CCDA a parachurch organization because church-based, the church is the center of what we're doing, and we go out. And so Lawndale Community Church, Mary Nelson in Chicago, Bethel Lutheran Church, Glenn K. Ryan in in the book, Restoring at Risk Communities, tells the story of of Raleigh Washington coming as the pastor of of Rock Church and Circle Urban Ministries and Rock Church together is what ministry looked like in Austin on the west side of Chicago.
00:26:18
Speaker
And so being church-based, then, of course, we we started off with with the felt-need concept, but then we ended up changing that because it it it just— you For a number of reasons, but we said, what we're really getting down to is let's listen. It's not just, we wanna listen to the people and it's not our ideas. John often said that the people with the problem, I quote it all the time, but I got it from John, but the people with the problem have the best solutions to solve the problem.
00:26:48
Speaker
But we've got to listen to them. And so we we listen to the community. And then, of course, we we realize that it's holistic. It's not, you know, everybody looks for that. What's that one silver bullet that's going to make everything happen? What's that one light bulb idea that's going to do it? Well, there isn't one.
00:27:04
Speaker
And so holistic approach means that we love the whole person. Sometimes in some places, not everybody should open a medical clinic, but in Lawndale, we were seven times the national crisis of physician to population ratio. So we needed a medical clinic because there were no options for the people to go to the doctor.
00:27:20
Speaker
So, but some places there's a clinic right down the street. You don't need one. So listening to the community is so important for us as we go about this. And so the holistic approach that involves all aspects of it, of course, the physical and the educational, the mind, the mental, the social, economic, all of these things. If you don't have a job, it's tough to make it.
00:27:41
Speaker
So how do we help people get jobs? So all of these things grew out of, i think we we usually list eight or 10 different parts of the holistic approach. And so we're we're loving the whole person. CCDA is trying to address the whole person. And I think
Adapting CCDA's Philosophy for Modern Needs
00:27:55
Speaker
the last one I didn't say is empowerment. We want to do it in a way that doesn't cause people to be dependent upon somebody else. you know ah we want it We want to help people to be empowered, to be able to help themselves. And and not and and that's where we kind of go to not handouts. And there's a little catchphrase that people use, and I love it. I think it's a fine one, which is, you know it's not a hand out, but it's a hand up. How do we help people to help themselves?
00:28:22
Speaker
We usually tell people in Lawndale, what do we need to do with a person that's really down on their luck right now? What do we need to do in the next year? And what does that person needs to do in the next year that they won't be needing that help? Right now, we need to give them some food or they're going to starve.
00:28:37
Speaker
And that we we always, in Lawndale, we always ask that person, what needs to happen that you won't need our help as a church a year from now? They can do that. That's empowering.
00:28:47
Speaker
Where it's not, let's say, well, you got to get a job and you got to do this and you got to know. What do you think? And so you involve people in that as we move forward. So that's the eight key components that that really have evolved, but they all have their roots.
00:29:02
Speaker
in In John Perkins. Yes. i wrote I wrote the first white paper about it. I just put it all together, but it wasn't just me. I don't want to say I'm the author of that. I would never say that because at the board meetings, we would we would have really good arguments. for you know Board meetings weren't about how to have any business the way we do it today. there were are that We were arguing philosophy and how do we do this and do we use the word church base and And actually, as CCDA has been doing with our board in the recent history, trying to get what's the right wordage? You know, are there things that need to change today? And how do we best use the what is the philosophy and how does it what needs to happen today in 2026 so that we are really meeting the right needs today and doing the things because things do change. I mean, you know.
00:29:47
Speaker
I mean, there was no internet when CCDA started. You know, we didn't have cell phones. I mean, there's so many things, you know, we didn't have quote unquote podcasts. What do they, I mean, what's a podcast? If we said to somebody, they think that you're a pod, you know, a lily pod or whatever, but anyway, go ahead.
00:30:02
Speaker
ah Right, right. That's good. So we we have to keep – and I think that's one of the beauties of CCDA. yeah We're not sitting back on like this is the way we've always done it. No, I don't want to know how we've
Reaffirming CCDA's Biblical Foundation
00:30:15
Speaker
always done it. I want to learn from what we did in the past, but how could do we do it now? What can be most effective? and And if something needs to change, let's change it so that we're we're current with the – And we're we're actually making making sense to people and we're we're meeting needs that that are there today. And we're addressing the struggles and the problems that are 2026 problems, not staying back, duressing them in the in the problems of the 80s.
00:30:44
Speaker
Yes. Now, as we as we take the the philosophy as a whole, how do you see it meeting the moment of today? right it's but you know You've talked about you know where it started and how it has evolved.
00:30:57
Speaker
but But the philosophy itself was never intended to be like a particular model of ministry, but you know it's a way of of looking at the world. But I would be interested in the hearing how you see that philosophy meeting 2026.
00:31:12
Speaker
twenty twenty sits What does that look like? to you I think the one the one part of the philosophy that that, you know, you're never going to hear me talk that I don't talk about the great commandment. And, you know, i mean, that's that's really the implementation of what we've done in Chicago and Lawndale is that we discovered the great commandment, you know, or maybe I should say rediscovered it.
00:31:34
Speaker
And so loving God and loving people, that's the core of living out these principles. You know, we live in the neighborhood so I can love the people live next door to me on both sides and across the street. You know, that's the beginning with starting to love my neighbor there. But my neighbor is far bigger than that. But that's the beginning.
00:31:52
Speaker
yeah And so if if if we're not living out the great commandment of loving God with everything, we so we have a deep personal relationship with Jesus Christ. That's that's the core of CCDA.
00:32:05
Speaker
I've stood in front of the of the CCDA group many, many years and said, you know what? I challenge you and I want to encourage you and I beseech you to spend an hour alone with God every day. Your relationship with Jesus Christ is the most important thing. You've got to start there. And that's the great commandment.
00:32:23
Speaker
And then we begin to love our neighbor as we love ourselves. So now when i'm when I'm really in tune with Christ and loving God, then I begin to love my neighbor. And my neighbor, Jesus gives us a definition of that in Luke chapter 10, where you know he tells us the story. It was the religious leader.
00:32:45
Speaker
religious leader probably a Pharisee that's asked Jesus the question, who is my neighbor? After Jesus had talked about the great commandment with him. And he tells the story of of the good Samaritan and The neighbor that we love is the person beaten up on the side of the road.
00:33:04
Speaker
So that's where we we ask the question, who is that person? beat I spent 25 years asking that question and writing the answers down. and And so who is that person there? And today, who's the person on the side of the roads? And you begin to see the characteristics. somebody Nobody wants to help. So I usually, when I go to a group and say, okay, we're They say, what should we start doing in CCA? I say, well, who's somebody in your neighborhood that nobody wants to help? And so whatever it is in your group, in your community, we begin to love them. And so I think the core of of the values of Christian community development, we keep that word Christian in in our name. Okay.
00:33:43
Speaker
Because we're we're we're doing community development, but we're doing it in a Christ-like manner. We're following Christ. yeah i want to I want to have a scripture for basically everything I do. If I can't find it in the Bible, I'm not sure I'm supposed to do it. And God has
Addressing Modern Societal Challenges
00:34:00
Speaker
used God's word. You know, Jesus in Luke 4, the Spirit, His first coming back to His hometown in Nazareth, He goes to the synagogue, they hand Him the scroll of Isaiah, and He reads from it, the Spirit of the Lord God is upon me and anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor, to bind up the brokenhearted. to set the captive free. And of course, he's quoting from Isaiah. He's reading Isaiah 61.
00:34:25
Speaker
So that's CCDA, it's it's so biblical. I mean, and that's one reason we have we start every morning with Bible study at CCDA, because we want to be grounded in the Word.
00:34:37
Speaker
So, yeah, i i get i um I want to keep preaching a little bit. It it it works for me. It works for me. Yeah. Yeah. Now, I want to ask the opposite of that question now. We yeah we have two more questions and we'll be done. yeah But I want to know, where where are you wrestling now with the philosophy?
00:34:55
Speaker
you know what What are those components or or pieces of it where you you're... i don't want to say you know going back to square one, but but you're just really maybe grappling with you know some of the phrasing of the component or...
00:35:14
Speaker
You know, maybe something that's happening in 2026 may be asking you to think about it differently. Yeah. So where are you wrestling now? Where I'm wrestling the most right now is about 10 years ago.
00:35:29
Speaker
If you'd asked me, where are we? I would say, you know what? We are in such a good place. And and where as Christ followers in America, we have we are making an unbelievable impact I think that, you know, the George Floyd situation happened and, you know, the country rallied around that. You know, we had an African-American president of the United States for eight years, ah Barack Obama, of course.
00:35:58
Speaker
And, you know, in fact, there there actually became a phrase that started to to be going around and that we were we were a post-racial society and that we've come through and racism no longer is a part of of of true American culture.
00:36:19
Speaker
And we almost started to believe that a little bit. Well, I think today when we look at it, my heart is broken. I have a broken heart because there's been a shift.
00:36:34
Speaker
I mean, there's even a, there's even talk of not, not celebrating Martin Luther King's birthday. There are people out there that are against that now, you know, I mean, there were some, but this has been a holiday for 30 years or whatever it is. And, and, you know,
00:36:50
Speaker
DEI. People say, you know I don't want DEI anymore. you know and and Well, diversity. I mean, for crying out loud, who created diversity? Not me.
00:37:04
Speaker
God. You know, and God is, he could have created us all looking one way, but God didn't create us that way. And God created diversity in his in his creation. And it's diversity in nature, all kinds of places, not just human beings. And equity, I mean, don't, don't isn't that really the bottom line is that we want to treat people as ah as my equal? john John's son, spen Spencer, and Chris Rice wrote the book, More Than Equals, to be in the in the body of Christ is to be more than just... Equality is something that we have in America that we're all equal and endowed by our creator with certain inalienable rights. Now, we know even when that was written that people didn't really mean it, but then we began to put more meaning into that. John Perkins loves that phrase because the equality that we are in America. The bottom line is...
00:37:54
Speaker
I feel like America has moved back from that. And even some of the churches have moved back from that. And so it grieves my heart. So I think we have to, and I don't have the answer. I'm certainly don't know the answer to this, but I think we have to relooking and and even as with our, with our principles and of CCDA, our principles are primarily reaching the neglected communities.
00:38:24
Speaker
But in
Unity in Diversity within CCDA
00:38:25
Speaker
order to do that, we and John thought this in redistribution as partnerships. In Lawndale, we've had lots of fabulous partnerships with suburban churches and suburban people and other and wealthier people and things, and and that they've come alongside us to help us.
00:38:42
Speaker
Yes. But we now I think CCDA has to think a little bit about helping the greater American society that has lost touch with this justice and and and and racism and the hurting people.
00:39:03
Speaker
and And so... it's I don't want to get too political here, but I just think that it's it's been gradual. and and it's it's It's not just one situation. I'm not blaming any one person. you know there's There was a book written ah by somebody that's been to CCDA before called Jesus and John Wayne. And she depicts this happening for 50 years that we were leading this. And so I've got to admit to you, I was blind to it.
00:39:28
Speaker
I know as ah as an older white man that's been doing this for over 50 years, I know I'm thinking more about that, and I'm thinking a little bit about how do we get back to to really loving our neighbor and loving all people.
00:39:45
Speaker
It won't. It won't. Yes, and I certainly do believe that CCDA has a role to play. I mean, weve as you look at the CCDA community over the years, as we've been...
00:39:56
Speaker
very broad and and diverse when we think about the various usingosing the various denominations that are that are represented within CCDA. And, you know, we we often try to figure out where are those places where you can go and have civil discourse around things that you that you disagree.
00:40:16
Speaker
And i think CCDA can be that place for many people because we know There are very real and significant issues that we have disagreement about, but we all, at the end of the day galvanize around loving God and loving neighbor.
00:40:32
Speaker
And we say, well, yeah let's figure out the rest along the way. you know Yeah. Yeah. and and And that's really the key to it is that, you know, who is Jesus and are we are we Christ followers? And so, you know, CCDA has, and I'm sure we got 30, 40, 50 denominations that come and we we might be have a little difference of how we do baptism or how how we do the Lord's Supper and, you know, when we do it. But we do.
00:40:59
Speaker
we agree on that Jesus is the Christ, the Messiah, the son of the living God. And that's who we follow. And I think CCDA does play a great role in that. I i love being a part of CCDA. I've been to every, I mean, I think I'm the only one. I wish my wife's missed one, but I've been to every CCDA conference ever. And, you know, it it just, it's so meaningful. And I don't, I don't think those early days, I know if it wasn't for CCDA, I would not have been able to sustain the pressures of ministry. I didn't start CCDA as a leader. I started because I needed CCDA. I mean, that that's, that's what we all did. And I, when I say I start, we together, I didn't come to CCDA because I want to tell somebody something. I came because I needed something. Yeah. And and i still I still get such a wonderful camaraderie and learn things every day when I'm around people in CCDA.
00:41:53
Speaker
Awesome.
Long-term Impact and Reflections
00:41:54
Speaker
I have one more question for you, and i'm sure I'm sure it's an easy one for you to answer, but we ask every guest, how do you see the CCD philosophy at work in your community? Yeah.
00:42:08
Speaker
Well, I mean, I think the biggest one is, of course, relocation in that, you know, we're really big on people living in the community and and and loving out and and listening to people.
00:42:19
Speaker
You know, we have at Lawndale, we've, you know, we've been doing this for 50 years. So we have a lot. And, you know, in our health center and our development corporation and, you know, doing it right now, we're in the midst of building a thousand brand new homes. And so I walked to church. I live, you know, three or four blocks from church and I walk here every day and I walk by probably five new houses being built by our development corporation. And and on it, I like it. It says a new neighbor's coming. You know, we're building a house for a new neighbor. And, you know, so that's, I think those kinds of things and and just seeing people loving each other.
00:42:55
Speaker
and And I think leadership development for me, that's one of the things when you do it as long is that now, you know, John has this poem, go to the people, live among them, learn from them, love them, listen to them.
00:43:08
Speaker
And then at the end, it says when the best leaders leave, you know, start with what they have, build on what they already know. But when the best leaders leave, the people say they've done it themselves. It's it's raising up a new generation of leadership. And so i'm I'm very, very, I guess you asked me at the beginning, I never answer, what's the thing I'm most proud of or whatever word? And that is, is that, you know,
00:43:31
Speaker
our Our ministries, the head of our health center is a young man that was born and raised and in Lawndale and grew up. And now he leads Lawndale Christian Health Center, James Brooks. And Jonathan Brooks, who grew up in Inglewood, and and which is a neighborhood just like Lawndale, is now the leader of our church. And Richard Townsend, who was born and raised in Lawndale, he leads our development corporation. And so it takes time.
00:43:55
Speaker
People want to see what happened in Lawndale and they want to see it now. You just got to remember, this was 50 years. And if you came to visit us after 10 years, you you wouldn't see much.
00:44:06
Speaker
you know I came in 75 and Anne in 77, and we didn't start our health center until 84. Almost 10 years it took to do that. And that was with one doctor back then.
00:44:18
Speaker
So it's a great season. And you know we kind of CCDA started in Lawndale. So we have a prayer card that prays for the leaders of all of our ministries. Every morning, I pray for the leaders of the health center, the development corporation, the church, our legal center.
00:44:34
Speaker
And then I have another person that's right there. Number five, CCDA President Lorenzo. So I pray for Lorenzo. I pray for you every morning. I prayed for you this morning. And I prayed you wouldn't be too hard on me today with these questions.
00:44:48
Speaker
I said, Lord, help us have a good time together. So, but yeah, I mean, I think, you know, for me, these are dreams come true. So, you know, I was the president of CCDA for 25 years to have you as our president. Lorenzo is a dream come true for me.
00:45:03
Speaker
And I'm so thankful for you. And I, you know, i really believe you're, you're God's person for this job right now. So I'm thankful for you. Thank you, Coach. I appreciate that.
00:45:16
Speaker
And Thank you for sharing some time with us today. It's always good talking with you and and just learning. i just I love learning from you, and and i'll I take every opportunity I can to do that.
00:45:30
Speaker
Thank you for listening to the CCDA podcast, and thank you, Coach, for joining us today. If you want to learn more about CCDA and how you can get involved, check the show notes of this episode.
00:45:42
Speaker
Don't forget to subscribe to this podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. This episode is produced by Sarah Callum in association with Christina Fore.
00:45:54
Speaker
We will be back soon with another episode featuring CCD practitioners who are committed to saying people and communities experience God's shalom. We'll see you then.