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Episode 14: The Top Secret Amp Project and Hi-Fi Audio
312 Plays1 month ago
Charles is back in Japan, while Chris and Bryan have been putting the final touches on their top secret 700 watt tube amp project, which will be revealed at the 2026 Wood Wire Volts show in Anaheim. The trio talk about NAMM, magnesium, and the absolute weapon of an amplifier they've been building. Steve Rowe from 60 Cycle Hum calls in with a question.
If you'd like Bryan, Charles, and Chris to answer your question on an episode of Amplified Nonsense, call (513) 334-3803 and leave a voicemail.
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Transcript
Podcast Introduction
00:00:08
Speaker
Welcome to Amplified Nonsense, a podcast hosted by amplifier experts Charles Henry of Silktone, Chris Benson of Benson Amps, and Brian Sowers of Sour Sound Transformers. It's about amps, but it's also about your voicemail questions. So if you would like to have your question answered on Amplified Nonsense, you can call into 513-334-3803 and leave your own voicemail for our hosts.
00:00:35
Speaker
Speaking of our hosts, let's go ahead and turn it over to them. How are you all doing?
Casual Host Banter
00:00:40
Speaker
I'm an amplifier expert. I'm great. hey I'm sorry. least you have that going. I'm just not well receptive of praise. That's all it is. It's doing good. Where are you at now?
00:00:51
Speaker
I finally slept. i didn't I'm back in Japan again. Is it cold there? Are you wearing a beanie? Yeah, I'm wearing a
Jet Lag and Sleep Solutions
00:00:58
Speaker
beanie. It's pretty cold. It's cold for my my hot California blood.
00:01:02
Speaker
It's like 37 or something. What's that in freedom units? This apartment's kind of cool, but the windows are super thin and there's only like a split, like a mini split for heat.
00:01:14
Speaker
And it's only warm if you're standing right in front of it. So I've been wearing a jacket and a beanie. But I finally slept. I was back in America for like two and a half weeks and the jet lag with me so bad. Like one day I would sleep 12 hours involuntarily, like I'd sleep through all my alarms. And then the next day I'd sleep two hours. And then the next day I would sleep two hours.
00:01:37
Speaker
And then the next day I'd sleep like 12 or 14. The whole time that kept happening. uh new year's eve i slept two hours the next night i slept like 40 minutes so i felt like a insane person and then as soon as i got back here i just had a normal sleep schedule again it was insane you gotta take some magnesium bro oh yeah brian brian called me up yesterday or two days ago and said took magnesium and changed my life that was literally the opening like yeah that was why he called should So you know.
NAMM Show Preparations
00:02:10
Speaker
I had some technical things to discuss, but like as soon as Chris was like, hey, Brian, like answer the phone, that's just where my brain went. Yeah, i'm goingnna I'm going to up it tonight a little bit more. I got to work my way in. i'm a i gotta I got to build to the occasion. I can't just like go whole hog right right away.
00:02:29
Speaker
Yeah. But ah I just, yeah I mean... The sleep improvement and just like kind of overall anxiety improvement. I mean, I'm a very anxious person as as everybody here knows. Yeah, it's nice. It's real nice.
00:02:44
Speaker
Yep. it ah It aids digestion, helps your mental health, and helps you sleep, too. It's awesome. I'm going to be that guy at NAMM that's like, oh, that guy's chill, which no one's ever said about me, ever. Especially at NAMM. Oh, my God. Yeah.
00:03:06
Speaker
i Isn't magnesium bathing a thing? Like you take magnesium baths or something or. Yeah. Yep. That's the thing, right? Yeah. We got a bag of that, too. Oh, that's rad. Magnesium salt or whatever. ah Yeah, got to try that out. I took when I slept 40 minutes that one night. um My cousin Jamie said magnesium or.
00:03:27
Speaker
Or Sean did? I don't remember. The whole trip is a blur because I didn't sleep. Someone gave me magnesium and told me it would help me sleep, and it did not. But ah maybe taking it regularly would would be better.
00:03:41
Speaker
Was it glycinate? Glycinate's the one. Citrate? Nah, it's not going to hit. I don't know. It was a it was a capsule. You know me. I'm super sensitive to, well, everything, but especially supplements and such. Even zinc.
00:03:57
Speaker
Yep. You name it, it'll send me into ADHD autistic panic mode spiral of hell. And then I'll love It's weird.
00:04:09
Speaker
do you Do you think you get enough carbon steel? No, probably not. I definitely get a lot of silicon steel. Oh, right, right. Sorry. whole buttload of it. A whole butt stack of it. Yeah. How are you prepping for ah for your upcoming NAMM trip? I'm really proud of you for going. I think that's pretty awesome.
00:04:31
Speaker
I'm already freaked out, and it's like, what, two or three weeks away? yeah But, ah yeah, I don't know. just going to be that weirdo running around, and, you know, I just...
00:04:42
Speaker
You know like I said, I got like a nice place to stay. And, you know, if my anxiety kicks in real hard and I just, I just can't hang, I'm just going to take a car and go chill at my spot.
00:04:54
Speaker
You know, it's just all I can really do. Right on. Are you, you're renting a car or? No, no, I'm just gonna, gonna. Oh, you just can't drop
NAMM Experiences and Social Dynamics
00:05:02
Speaker
a grab a new person. Yeah. Whatever the the popular ride share is down there that doesn't break the bank.
00:05:08
Speaker
Yeah, that's cool. Are you guys ready? Are you guys ready for, are you doing it together? Yeah, I i assume with the, don't know what I'm allowed to talk about. Well, when you say doing it, me we're we're actually not getting a booth or anything. Oh, good.
00:05:28
Speaker
that's That's great. but Yeah. It's, ah it's we're we're just going to bring in, bring a an item down. And then people are going to look at it and then ask where we are. And we'll obviously, where are you going to put the item?
00:05:46
Speaker
It could be in the back of a truck or it's, uh, we're renting a van. i mean, renting a minivan. I did the math and we'll actually be able to fit the entire thing in the back of a,
00:05:58
Speaker
chrysler pacifica if because the seats kind of roll into the floor sweet with another four by four by four cube of cargo space left for you know suitcases and whatever and you're going to set the whole thing up at joel's little sandwich shop pedal show right that would be hilarious across the street with a generator I just going to say, I don't even think the cabs would fit in there. that I heard the show is outside, but that's by necessity, not by design. Is that correct?
00:06:31
Speaker
ah Yes. They're talking about the Effector Marketplace at Windsor Browns on Saturday, I think. Yeah. should be We should be definitely telling people what these these events are. So so we're we're going to bring the item...
00:06:46
Speaker
the clandestine for now item, uh, to, to Woodwire volts, which is a really awesome show. Hopefully. I mean, it's got a bunch of really awesome people who are coming.
00:06:58
Speaker
Yeah. That's I'm sure it's going be a good time. Yeah. I, I popped by there last time. um it was cool. It was a good setup. And where's Woodwire volts? That's not at NAMM, but it's still in in Anaheim and tickets are available.
00:07:13
Speaker
yeah Yes. I believe so. i think you have to buy tickets. It is in Anaheim. I thought it was down the street for't know about the digits naam from the convention center. If it's not, I might need to rethink my strategy here.
00:07:29
Speaker
If it's in the same place, you've got to take your car. You do? Yeah. ah It's closer to the sandwich shop. it's They're all pretty close. Still probably going to take a car.
00:07:41
Speaker
ah Jesse said he's driving a minivan, and so he'll have the party bus. Yeah, there you go. Well, I, too, will have a party bus, specifically a party bus. Oh, yeah. I forgot about that. Well, cool. Yeah.
00:07:54
Speaker
I have my choice of buses now.
00:07:58
Speaker
Are you guys going to the actual NAMM floor? Yes, I think I am going to go. i don't know why. ah think I mostly just want to see Brian walk walk around at NAMM. Yeah, yeah.
00:08:12
Speaker
I was just about to say I'm going to go with you, but it sounds like you're going with me. Yeah, I'm growing i'm going with Brian to to document it. I was going to go to the Mercury Magnetics booth and say hello and introduce myself and ah meet the new owners. And then I was going to go to the Pacific booth and ah introduce myself. And I'm just kidding. I'm just just being a jerk. I'll introduce you to the the triad folks.
00:08:37
Speaker
They follow me on Instagram. Not that that means anything. Well, we can all go to the Seymour Duncan booth and say hi to Emily. Yeah, we are all good. Well, Charles isn't, but we are definitely going to get as many people as we can to go to the Seymour Duncan booth. Everybody, that's the Seymour Duncan booth. If you haven't heard of that company. And annoy the crap out of Emily.
00:08:57
Speaker
Good. Woodwire Vaults is at a wedding venue called the Colony House, which is by Pearson Park in Anaheim. yeah it was cool. It was cool last time.
00:09:08
Speaker
The NAMF4 sucks. The NAMF4 always sucks. But, um,
Music Event Reflections
00:09:12
Speaker
are you guys doing any of the parties or whatever? Anything planned other than the events? um i don't I don't know. There's always like the ah what I call pedal prom that think Jamie and Julie always throw. but I'm not sure. i like i'm gonna I'm going to be trying to not get sick because we have to drive the thing all the way across the whatever to ah to deliver it. Yeah.
00:09:37
Speaker
Yeah, that's wild. the um Every time I've gone, I've gotten sick. My friend Ryan almost died last time we went. That's wild. That's crazy. Oh, cool. This is really helping me. Sorry, no. Thanks. Wow. just about that Just make sure you get your Namthrox vaccine, Brian.
00:09:58
Speaker
Yeah. Jeez, man. I'm just going to set timers. You'll be fine, dude. You'll be fine. I've been exposed for an hour. I got to go. Turn around and walk out. Yeah. yeah Walk out, would change your mask, come back in. Yeah. change Change my mask, put a new mask on. Yeah.
00:10:16
Speaker
yeah Come in, reset the timer. I think I might get some custom t-shirts made for your entourage. For my entourage. Uh-oh. You're going double mask it? Hmm, I hadn't thought about that till now. You're really ramping up my anxiety here.
00:10:31
Speaker
Like, I've done a lot of like personal, you know, ah just grappling with this situation. and You're making it worse. Chris, he should just pull his mask off randomly in the middle of the floor.
00:10:44
Speaker
No, that is not something you do to a friend. You don't do that. The meanest thing I've ever said to Brian was, I'm going to give you COVID for your birthday. I say i remember that. Yeah. I think I kind of remember like chuckling and then rolling my eyes and then complaining about it later. i remember that. That's fine. I'm i'm very sorry. That was totally uncalled for. it's It's fine. I understand. It's not fine and you will never do it again.
00:11:11
Speaker
yeah No, you'll have fun, dude. I think it'll be great. it I've gotten sick a bunch there, but and it's always just like you're cold or something. It's not COVID. It's just it's the same going to any crowded place. it's's Yeah, you know, I'm... It's holiday. yeah It's all normal.
00:11:28
Speaker
I'm going to be the only weirdo there in a mask, so I'll be instantly recognizable if somebody who actually wants to talk to me. And like I said, you know, I spent a little extra and got a really nice place to stay. And if i my anxiety just gets to be too much and, you know, I just need time, I just take car and go go chill in my little guest house in Old Town Orange, you know, get some overpriced coffee.
00:11:53
Speaker
Yeah, dude, do it. You know, make a vacation out of it. so You're flying in. Chris, you're driving in. Brian, you're flying in? Yeah. Nice. Yeah, he he should be setting up or even maybe even done setting up by the time I get in. And I was just going to take a car straight from the airport.
00:12:11
Speaker
Yeah, that's cool. If I was going, we could have done an episode. That would have been cool. Oh, we've talked about it. But what have you you let us down, man.
00:12:22
Speaker
It's payback for you not going to Chicago. i I should have gone to that. I realized that. I realized that now. I should have gone. Are you going to this year?
00:12:33
Speaker
Yes. Okay, cool. I'm going to that. When is it? August 20-something.
New Product Unveiling
00:12:40
Speaker
All right. um Fretboard Summit we're talking about.
00:12:44
Speaker
Also be the only weirdo there to mask. So if anybody sees me, they'll know it's me. That's fine. There's a lot of weirdos. It's just marketing. The fretboard summit seems to be on the books for August 20th through the 22nd at the Old Town School of Folk Music and lincoln on Lincoln Ave. Well, Lincoln Square? Lincoln Park? which There's so many Lincolns in Chicago. i get them messed up.
00:13:08
Speaker
think it's square. I'm not sure I'm going to present this time, but I'm i'm definitely going go hang out with everyone. It's a fun trip. Yeah, I like kind of like what you guys are doing where you go to NAMM, but no booth. You just walk around and do whatever you want. Yeah, I don't think I could get a booth.
00:13:26
Speaker
i just the The problem with getting me getting a booth at NAMM is my I reach adrenal fatigue really quickly, and then I start forgetting that I've met people.
00:13:38
Speaker
And I don't think that really helps my brand very much when people come up and they're like, Hey, I'm Jerry. Like, Oh my gosh, I'm so tired right now. Jerry, I'm going to go get some coffee. Are you going to be here? Who's Jerry? I'm Pete.
00:13:56
Speaker
And ah it's, it's actually probably bad. Cause I just reach, I just go over overwhelmed immediately. Yeah. Did ever tell you guys the story about when Benson Fest happened here in Portland? And I called Chris up and I was like, hey, Benson Fest, should I show something like at a table? And and he was like,
00:14:18
Speaker
What for? yeah That's boring. Or something like that. Like, why? Like, so what? People can pick up paperweights? And i was like, oh yeah, good point. Screw that. And then you guys obviously saw me when I was there for the 15 minutes I could handle being in that place. yeah was like, I gotta go. i gotta go. It was great seeing you guys.
00:14:39
Speaker
Yeah, that was ah that was a day. Holy cow. That was fun. Man, I wish I was going to be there. I'm missing out on a few things. i i came back here a little too early, but that band Fuzz is playing around there sometime around, think next week.
00:14:54
Speaker
They never play. That would have been rad to go see them. but ah How many times have you seen them play? Just once. Oh, okay. I thought you'd seen them a couple. I've seen Charles's band couple times, his his solo projects and stuff, or his other projects.
00:15:07
Speaker
But um I've only seen Fuzz once, and it was rad. It was so cool. But he has a new band called Primitive Ring, and they rock. So I've seen them. That's just as fun. But yeah, that and Nam.
00:15:21
Speaker
So many people have been asking me, are you going NAMM, are you going to Like people, like old ass friends of mine that I haven't talked to in a long time, they're like, are you NAMM this year? I might go. And was like, what, why?
00:15:32
Speaker
I think, for me at least, like saying like I'm going to NAMM, it isn't about going to NAMM necessarily, you know? And I think it's the same probably for for everyone here, not to speak for other people, but for me, I just keep calling it going to NAMM, but I will probably go to NAMM itself for 90 minutes.
00:15:51
Speaker
you know, if if I can handle that, you know? Yeah. So um i'm i actually am looking forward to the wood wire vaults thing. um Yeah. You know, I think that the companies that are there are very interesting. um It's way more chill.
00:16:07
Speaker
Yeah. And just, I think it looks, it looks more my speed overall. And honestly, I'm curious, like if people will be receptive to, we can talk about what this thing is, right? We've talked about it before.
00:16:19
Speaker
Yeah.
Amplifier Development Insights
00:16:20
Speaker
I don't think it's anyone who has listened to this podcast knows what you guys are bringing. Yeah. Yeah. We can talk about it. So, so obviously this is the, are we still calling it the same thing? How can I ask a question? Maybe I will type this.
00:16:35
Speaker
It's a new tape delay. Yeah. Yep. We, we finally cloned a space echo. Yeah. Watch out, Shane. We're coming for you. and um Yeah. So that whole project and we, yeah we we've talked about making the 700 watt amp before, obviously on the podcast and on other podcasts, we we were on truth about vintage amps a couple weeks ago, which was awesome.
00:17:02
Speaker
So it's built, it's built. I need one speak on connector to actually hear it. which is insane. i i bought speak on cables. The whole thing is set up downstairs. I'm at the warehouse right now and it's set up ready to go.
00:17:17
Speaker
And I just need one connector to actually hear it. You still haven't heard it? Well, I've heard it through one speaker. i haven't heard it through the whole, you know, stack of cabinets that it plugs into. So I'm, I'm tracking it down.
00:17:32
Speaker
um and I should be able to hear it tomorrow. If not, I'm, I might just, I might just give up. um whole thing's off but yeah we we benched we uh i brought it up last week got it got it all wired got all the systems running had a bunch of debugging to do i blew the house mains fuse a few times that's as it should be Yeah, I mean, there was smoke, there was plasma.
00:17:59
Speaker
For a second, I thought I'd destroy the transformers. um Damn. But it's it works, it's quiet, and I finally, I benched it, which means, you know, test the wattage, and it actually benches out at 880 watts.
00:18:18
Speaker
Whoops. So yeah, he he texted me that, and I was like, ah Oh, what have I done? That's wild.
00:18:30
Speaker
We did two get a job. Yeah. I over spec the high voltage rail a little bit, but, um, or the, the second high voltage rail is what I should say. But, uh, Actually, it was ah it wasn't that bad. Today it was putting out 720 under load the should. Remember, current amplifier concept.
00:18:49
Speaker
and it's still putting out eight hundred and eighty watts yep as it should remember current amplifier concept Wow. That's cool. So that's, and then I did the the math for the speakers and i think Charles, you said 130 decibels or something.
00:19:08
Speaker
i think it should do like 132 clean. ah Yeah, that's what it was all clean. i think 131. The math was or something. I don't remember. And then 136 square nice Which, I mean, square waving something that does AB2 is real scary, but...
00:19:29
Speaker
Yeah. we I don't think we're ever going to get anywhere close to a square wave distorting it. um But I did into the load resistor and mama mia. That's crazy.
00:19:40
Speaker
So actually ah did a bunch of research and I posted in a, you know, forum asking, is this the loudest thing that's available right now? I mean, obviously people have made thousand watt amps with like, you know, radio transmitter tubes and Sure.
00:19:56
Speaker
I think like Russian guys in their basements are always doing stuff like that. But in terms of something you can actually... potentially go on a website and buy and have someone make, ah this is the loudest tube amp that's being commercially, that will be commercially produced or loudest. I'm sorry. They killed me on the forum when I asked if it was a loudest because they're like, well, you know, speakers, like well, yeah, you know what I mean, guys?
00:20:24
Speaker
Um, the most powerful. Yeah. And but you showed me that, and the funniest one I saw was Bruce Eggnator, who just said, schematic, question mark. like Like, what, are you going to build this thing in your class, man?
00:20:41
Speaker
Oh, my God. I really like Bruce. I think whenever someone posts something in that forum, he asks for a schematic, which which is fair. i'm just I'm not sure he read the post, because...
00:20:53
Speaker
Like, obviously I'm not going to just post a schematic. Yeah. Here you go. When I ask a question about, is this most powerful? It's like, well, don't know, man. That's what we, so I have been looking 130, you something decibels 132, I believe. 132. That's about a a jackhammer if you're the one using it, a stock car race, or the Seahawks Stadium at its loudest. So it's like maximum stadium crowd noise.
00:21:26
Speaker
And it's past the threshold of pain. geez I found a lot of different numbers on threshold of pain. It seems like it's a very relative thing. Like I saw some that were as low as like, I think what was it? 126, but some that were as high as 140 something.
Hi-Fi vs. Guitar Amplifiers
00:21:42
Speaker
But it seems safe to say that this amplifier is a weapon.
00:21:49
Speaker
Yeah, it's approximately a jet aircraft taking off as well. I can't believe that all of those things are about the same decibel range, but these charts are saying all of those things. yep How loud are my bloody Valentine concerts?
00:22:04
Speaker
Probably hundred and twenty s i would think. That's the loudest thing I've ever heard. Did you wear earplugs at a My Boy Valentine concert? course. Okay, good. Of course. Of course. I took them out for like one second. They often peak at ah they often peak at around 120 to 130 decibels, comparable to a jet engine. Wow.
00:22:25
Speaker
Depending on the venue, I guess. Oh, world're we're talking RMS, though. This ain't no peak. Tokyo was the loudest show of the tour in whatever that festival was called. On stage, my meter peaked at 138 DBA.
00:22:40
Speaker
Whoa. That's impressive. Especially doing that with, like, vintage amps. Have you guys been to one? No, I haven't. They steal all of your senses. It's wild. Like... There's so many lights that you can't see anything because it's just constant flashing. It's so loud that you ah can't hear anything else don't have to have your plugs in. And it's so loud that you're rumbling. So you you can't feel anything because your body is shaking so much.
00:23:07
Speaker
It's insane. And then I already can't smell. So all ah all I could do was, ah what's the other one? Taste. Did you say you already can't smell? Oh, you guys don't know this, do you? i do.
00:23:20
Speaker
Yeah, i don't I don't have a sense of smell. Neither did my grandmother. i knew her. to You guys can smell each other. We all keep in touch. It's like The Shining.
00:23:32
Speaker
thank What if that's how we found out you guys were related? ah My grandmother, my my my great aunt. The two people in the world who who who couldn't smell. There's only two for sure.
00:23:46
Speaker
Chris, didn't one of your employees calculate the amp as as producing greater than one horsepower on the output? ah Yeah, did Jason yeah said it's 1.1 horsepower. i I mentioned that to someone and he was like, 2026, the year amplifiers are now rated in horses. yeah That's pretty funny.
00:24:08
Speaker
That's it? That's the only response I get? I thought that was way more funnier than that. I laughed, but I was muted. I'm scared. i think you can weld with it. I kind of want to try welding with it. I mean, it could definitely provide enough current to do it.
00:24:21
Speaker
Oh, yeah. How are you going to run it in the warehouse? Because you've been splitting. You've been running it into two different breakers in the shop. Today I ran it off of one breaker and it it was fine. didn't It didn't pop anything. And I i did the, i was testing in five second pulses. Otherwise it would have just melted my resistor. Like I literally heard the resistor crackling a little bit.
00:24:43
Speaker
Damn. A hundred watt resistor crackling. wow I thought you had a 200 watt load on there. It's only a hundred? It's a hundred. You madman. You know what you should do? You should take the output of it and rectify it and power one of your smaller amps with the output of the...
00:24:59
Speaker
but That is brilliant. Pretty good idea. That'd be rad. so apparently this is this is the next Silk Tone product. yeah Wow. Wow. Wow.
00:25:13
Speaker
that's That's really good. Man, that really activated me. Yeah, dude. Because if you just run like a 50, you can switch between 50 and 60 hertz really easily, just depending on the ah yeah depending on the ah frequency generator you're you're putting into it. I mean, just put a jazz bass into it, man. Go. Roll the treble down. run it in like 400 hertz and then you could have super small transformers because you wouldn't have any how does that work oh there you go because the flux capacity would have to be way less because the inductance requirement and yeah therefore inductive reactance requirement is lower at a higher frequency and it'd be way cleaner power so so if i run it at like one one k it'd be even better
00:25:57
Speaker
Yeah. No, because at that point you bridge, and depending on the core material, you bridge into capacitive coupling versus inductive coupling. So you still have to be in a range where the core actually does something or else you don't have inductive reactants. You have capacitive reactants, which is effectively just going to be shorting the primary and secondaries together. I don't know, man. I think it'll be okay. I'm just going to... Well, actually... I think 400 is useful for some reason. researched it before, and I think 400 is like the ideal power load or something.
00:26:29
Speaker
But... um Interesting. I don't remember why. Someone once asked me to rewind or design or something, a transformer that was... i think it was a rewind, but but redesign it. And it was a vintage transformer that was designed for like, I want to say 30 Hertz. Emily's going to look this up and we're going to know it.
00:26:47
Speaker
ah It was in Canada, if I remember correctly. damn Chris, new idea. You should sell this thing as a hi-fi power supply for like 50 grand.
00:26:59
Speaker
Now we're talking, dude. There you we go but Not only is it a power supply, but it's a tube power supply. Yeah, tube power supply. so it sounds better.
00:27:10
Speaker
Yeah, and it's regulated and all that. Dude, you'd easily get 50. Dude, this is just a vacuum tube chainsaw motor. You'd easily get 50K from those hi-fi people for sentence for a tube power supply like that. Yeah, you're not wrong.
00:27:24
Speaker
we we were We were looking at the ah the other extremely powerful amps that that people have offered. And there's one, you you probably know the brand, Jay. What was it, Brian?
00:27:35
Speaker
UK guy. They make a mono they make a monob block that's watts. Oh, VTL.
00:27:43
Speaker
Yeah. And so it's kind of like poking like wondering because we're, you know, we're kind of trying to price the thing, too. And I i kind of clicked across our website or maybe like eBay or those are selling for like over 35 something.
00:27:56
Speaker
Yeah, VTL, they're expensive. that It's hard to, I mean, guitar amps traditionally are, like my Silktone amp, for instance, it sells for like three grand around there.
00:28:07
Speaker
If the level of work and craftsmanship and parts quality from that was put into a hi-fi amp, the same exact amp I would probably sell for like 20 grand, but guitar people won't pay that.
00:28:22
Speaker
But in hi-fi, like that level of quality, that's that's the price. that's what it's That's what's normal. Yeah. I would do it if I didn't despise that world. Yeah, and for what it's worth, the VTL stuff, i believe, is generally output transformer-less ah designs. So I think it's all capacitively coupled. I mean, I
Audio Transformer Techniques
00:28:42
Speaker
assume. Way better. They only have those stinky transformers in there ruining everything.
00:28:46
Speaker
Yeah, they're running like 24-inch. I mean, they call it the sour sound, so... What tubes do they use in that? 24 KT88s. Oh, okay. which i Does that get you into ah OTL territory? Yeah, I mean, think about it. Like 14 of them in parallel got us down to, what, 650 ohms?
00:29:08
Speaker
So, you know, put another 14 in parallel and youre now you're down to like 300. Yeah. Yeah. yeah Yeah, OTL is, I mean, I make Transformers for a living, so I think it's my job to tell people that OTL is is crap. You know, it's ah it's a fad. It's a passing fad, you know, or something like that.
00:29:28
Speaker
But what is it? So output transformer-less, basically it's an amplifier that the output section is not coupled via a transformer. So with vacuum tubes, the issue is that you have um an amplification element that is high voltage and low current.
00:29:45
Speaker
And along with that comes high impedance. so But speakers are you know low impedance devices. They need... um They need power. yeah they need They need current, really, to drive. So you have to... An output transformer in a guitar amp or a hi-fi amp or power amp or whatever, ah its main job is to take high voltage at high impedance and low current and couple that to ah low voltage, high current, and low impedance.
00:30:16
Speaker
So it's just ah it's a math ratio. It's all it really is. yeah And ah OTL, the idea is that if you take enough of these, in in this case, vacuum tubes that are high impedance, high voltage, low current, if you parallel enough of them together, you can drive a low enough load to not require the mathematical functionality that a transformer provides. So for instance, the 700 now...
00:30:42
Speaker
the seven hundred now 880 amp, the concept of it, which we actually did go into on the Truth About Vintage Amp podcast briefly, is that it's it's more of a current amplifier. And that's, it's not really a current amplifier. It was just kind of like a description of the concept. But the concept was parallel enough tubes and we get a low amplifier primary load, low enough to where the voltage ratio in the output transformer is very low. So we get this huge power capability on the output, as long as the core is big enough, which we made it big enough. So, ah OTL, yeah, it's cleaner. It doesn't have the sound of a transformer, but also it's still high voltage. So you have to use a capacitor in there. And frankly, I would, I prefer the phase shift characteristics of, of a transformer versus a capacitor. um I can make a transformer sound better than a cap that I can buy. But still, you know, OTL's got its fan base. I've heard several OTL amps, and some of them have been really good and impressive, and some of them have sucked balls. So I think, i get like everything, it just depends on the implementation and the designer and what you match it with, I think.
00:31:53
Speaker
I haven't heard an OTL guitar amp. That's an interesting idea, too. But... um Brian's like, that's the terrible. he he Yeah, yeah. in In the hi-fi world. Suck balls is not a technical enough answer for my requirements here here. I've had a lot of coffee. I've had a lot of sugar. I need you to elaborate. No, they're just...
00:32:11
Speaker
I don't like a lot of hi-fi apps, like just period. So, um you know, yeah, cool. They're clean. They're clean and sterile. They don't, they don't sound like music. You can hear the sounds. You can hear the good sounds. You don't feel the music.
00:32:25
Speaker
And that's what I look for in in a good system. Yeah, and hi-fi synergy is such a thing. Like, one amp can sound great with one pair of speakers and, like, garbage with another.
00:32:36
Speaker
And it's... a Yeah, it's weird. So OTL by itself, I don't know. I haven't i haven't tested the same kind of circuit, like... in an OTL arrangement versus with a transformer. So there's too many variables. It's who knows, who knows what makes it, but I've definitely heard. security And you can't necessarily do the same thing because yeah you can't, itd be different. Yeah. you mean, you're driving totally different impedances. I have designed a um like a flea-powered OTL amp before with like some cool Russian tubes because they have triodes that have super low output impedance, like 1,000 ohm output impedance, and then you parallel 10 of them or something. i mean you could do You could take like a stage like that that's designed to be capacitively coupled and...
00:33:23
Speaker
you know, run capacity, capacitively couple it to like a one-to-one transformer. But yeah, you know, the, the reality about transformer design is that the closer that you get to primary secondary parity. So like, you know, one-to-one the functional effects for lack of a better word of the transformer itself are less prominent. Like you hear the transformer less, what a transformer can do is usually happening at the edges of its bandwidth. Right.
00:33:51
Speaker
And, um yeah, the tonality, God, I'm using the T word, the tonality that's, that's there, that's happening at those two points, you know, you, you won't, you'll have less of that at one to one. Right. Um, and there's some impedance stuff too, basically, you know, capacitance and, um,
00:34:11
Speaker
like winding adjacency, which is what creates capacitance. It's just, it's less of a thing at lower impedances. And typically a one-to-one is going to be driven by a low enough impedance that you have a low on the output. So I've heard capacitors that sound amazing. They'd sound, you know, better than I ever thought they could, but it still doesn't match like a top quality transformer.
00:34:32
Speaker
Especially a sour sound one. I still want to hear your stuff in a hi-fi amp. We've talked about designing that several times and we've we've never done it. I think that'd be super fun and that might be kind of... I i decided while I'm here in Japan, I need to find my... um I want to get back in touch with like my passion for audio instead of just running a business.
00:34:52
Speaker
It feels like I've kind of shifted and... um I want to get back to like doing a cool ideas from scratch instead of trying to think of the next pedal. I think Silktone Hi-Fi might be might be kind of fun to to experiment with. But I've tried um Tango Transformers are really cool. It's they're not around anymore, but the the engineers all still are. um I think they run ISO transformers now here in Japan. Yeah. And those are f***ing beautiful sounding.
00:35:18
Speaker
Like, holy s***. My hi-fi setup is crazy. Like, the my best amp that i've that I've ever heard that I built myself, it's ISO transformers, and it uses those EML tubes, those EML2A3s, like the mesh grid EMLs where they're made in ah Yugoslavia, I think. And they're like the craziest tubes. It's like $1,000 for a you know a set of but man, they sound Nice. But yeah, it'd be cool to hear what the Sourstone stuff sounds like in that kind of capacity.
00:35:50
Speaker
Yeah, i worked on some ideas for a project that Eddie over Eurotubes was putting together, and a lot of my ideas stem from like the old Carver designs. Oh yeah. um but so ah Massively massive balancing. It's the best way I could put it like primary and secondary DC resistances are matched. Uh, adjacency capacitance all balanced, like insane longitudinal balance. Um,
00:36:20
Speaker
And it's this kind of like bookmatch design. It's really cool. And then every section is wound, layer wound, but with foldback winding, which means that like you wind from like the start of the layer to the finish of the layer. And then you you basically anchor the the wire and ah run a piece of tape all the way up to it across the winding length. And then you take the traverse and you go back to the start. And so basically you like are defeating layer capacitance by every time you do that. It's some pretty wacky stuff. Very difficult.
00:36:50
Speaker
That's cool. Yeah, that's cool. It's really cool stuff. But it's all like the concept of of taking like what's the best you can do with like an EI core. Yeah. You know, because obviously, you know, C core stuff, which I didn't know if the ISO stuff was C core or not. Yeah, it's C core. Is Hashimoto still around? Are they still out there? think so. Last I checked.
Innovative Amplifier Designs
00:37:08
Speaker
Yeah, they're all e EI from what I know. All the best transformer companies are are in Japan as far as Hi-Fi goes, I think. Lundell's okay. Lundell's pretty okay, but they're like in that world. It's a different thing. It's a different thing, and they're pretty they're pretty middle of the road when it comes to um the hi-fi stuff.
00:37:30
Speaker
Well, Lundahl is very impressive to me. I mean, they're still layer winding. i mean, they're stick winding. They're great. they're stick winding with PET as they're layering. I mean, that's that's impressive.
00:37:41
Speaker
But you know their their design and concept, their sonic concept is is absolute transparency. Yeah. Which I'm obviously the complete opposite of that. I want you to i want to differentiate sonically differentiate everything that we make. I want you to hear it. you know right I don't want something with my name on it to be in there and you can't hear what it does. But um all those companies out there in Japan that wind on like EI, they've got Nippon Steel out there. The high B. And they make high B. Yeah. I got to get that high B. I got to find you a source for the high B while I'm out. Seriously. Like I need the high B plug from Japan. Like you got to find that for me. Yeah.
00:38:20
Speaker
that's That core material is awesome. I mean, that makes... I'll start with it. I just talked to one of my suppliers yesterday about ah they they have stamped M5.
00:38:32
Speaker
They hate it. um you know It's much thinner than M6. And ah I see Chris smiling over there like I've been talking way too much. I told you, lot of coffee, a lot of sugar today. Yeah, you got to give me that high B. Yeah.
00:38:45
Speaker
Well, I think we have time for one question. So I think this one's mostly for Chris, but maybe ah the rest of you you can chime in as well. Hey, this question, I guess, is maybe mostly for Chris. Oh yeah, this is Steve from 60s Aquahom.
00:39:00
Speaker
ah On your site, you talk about using a 6L6 as a voltage regulator for your, basically as an attenuator. um Can you explain how that works beyond what's on the website? Is that like a secret thing you guys came up with? Is that a thing that other brands are doing? Like what's what's the deal here? Like it it seems pretty innovative.
00:39:26
Speaker
I'm sure whatever explanation you guys have will go over my head, I think I would enjoy hearing about it anyway.
00:39:34
Speaker
Oh yeah, great great question. Thanks, Steve. Really set me up to toot my own horn here. um So yeah, the that six cell six
00:39:47
Speaker
goes in the ah the power supply of an amp and we set it up in the and a way that makes it regulate voltage. So we give it a voltage reference and then whatever comes out the cathode is usually a ah couple of volts lower than whatever that voltage references.
00:40:10
Speaker
And that lets you to actually take down the the power of the amp because it's a that's what's feeding the power tubes and less voltage means less current, less moving the speaker. And it's just a a slightly fancier way of doing power scaling.
00:40:28
Speaker
um but Most people use a MOSFET transistor to do that, which does a a really good job, but I realized realized you could do it with a tube And then you you don't really have to compromise with, uh, with any sort of sag because that 6L6 plate, you know, it's got the same sort of plate thing as ah like a rectifier whatever.
00:40:54
Speaker
It's got anode, anode resistance impedance, whatever. And that can kind of simulate the sound of a tube rectifier and, uh,
00:41:07
Speaker
Yeah. At some point, Brian and I are going to actually do some, some testing. I mean, I can hear it and it makes sense, but, uh, we we're going to actually make some nice graphs showing that it does have a nonlinear kind of.
00:41:26
Speaker
response And Brian, you could weigh in here if you want. I'm, I'm i mean way over my head. I mean, the question's for you. yeah but but Yeah. I mean, it's, it's a, it's, it's a cool um concept. The, i mean, seriously,
00:41:41
Speaker
what you did with it is really cool. The it's, I've seen it in hi-fi a bunch just as like a passive series pass regulator, um, just to eliminate noise and ripple current and stuff like that.
00:41:52
Speaker
But, um, the fact that you made it variable, like a power scaling thing, that's super cool. And applying it to guitar where you can actually, you know, sag it down and use it for musical creativity is the, uh,
00:42:09
Speaker
that's the icing and like the unique part of it that's really impressive. Yeah, thank you. I mean, you you hit it. You hit it right there. It's a pass regulator. It's just, if you use a MOSFET, it has a very linear response. And, you know, I mean, obviously not every MOSFET is linear, but it's definitely a whole lot more linear than a vacuum tube.
00:42:29
Speaker
And then you know putting a 6L6 in there, well, plate resistance is dictated by current draw. So you know no tube has a complete, well, unless it was designed to have a completely linear ah plate resistance versus current. But yeah, the more current you draw, you know the change in plate resistance happens. And yeah, it just is more dynamic. It's a smart way to make a simple thing sound more musical.
00:42:57
Speaker
But yeah, we do really need to to set up that that testing system yeah and map it all out. I think that's one of those, ah you know, anyone that that ah wondered why you did it in the first place? Well, okay, people like me that read graphs would really like it, is what I mean to say. I'm always impressed by um not the, I mean, the sound too, but What surprises me
Creative Electronic Solutions
00:43:20
Speaker
most is not the sound or the um effect of what you do, but the economical impact it has on your amps and and your ability to use parts that you, that you um like you eliminated the need for a rectifier tube or you repurposed it and you're using one tube that now does the job of rectifier and...
00:43:42
Speaker
this awesome power scaling thing. And I think I've talked to you before about, um, we were talking about your fuzz and I was like, dude, it's really cool that you did the heater thing because like, not just that it, uh, regulates the temperature and you don't have to adjust anything. Also you can use any transistor you want to, because it it raises the HIV when you, when you boost the heat and you were like, dude you're the first one that's ever noticed that. but Like that's not the reason you did it. Cause like, it's so hard to find yeah the right value transistors, but with yours, you just pop them in and heat them.
00:44:18
Speaker
Yeah. but Most quote unquote Germanium experts on the internet don't even address that. And you're yeah literally the only person who ever has told me and and has said that has realized that I'm just like, yeah, it literally like ah aside from leakage and everything, it literally increases gain.
00:44:38
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And so we we can kind of do whatever we want to with the transistors. It's smart. Thank you do you. You can use lower gain, lower noise transistors and just heat them up to get more gain.
00:44:52
Speaker
Yep. yeah So I didn't know that. Yeah. It actually just changes the freaking HFE. I totally didn't know that. That current gain goes up with heat. Yeah. um Yeah. Most people don't. That's awesome. Like you can even, I mean, you hold, hold a transistor in your palm, hold a germanium transistor in your palm and test it for HFE.
00:45:11
Speaker
Or I mean, test it first and then hold it in your palm, heat it up and the HFE will read higher. Yeah. So, yeah, but what's, so like, what's the, okay, with the heating system, not just me using my hand, squeezing a transistor as hard as I can, trying to get the, the, the tone. Um, you know, what's, what's the percentage approximately? Like how much is this thing going to go up in current gain? It can go up like 30%. Really? Yeah.
00:45:36
Speaker
Wow. That's awesome. So all those 40, 50 HFVs will bump up to, you know, the ideal 60, 70. sixty seventy You have to kind of use a nerdy testing system for, to, to actually find that out and figure it out.
00:45:50
Speaker
Um, because most testers don't really handle leakage very well. So you kind of have to do the, you know, what is it? what's What's the technology of the fuzz face? RJ Keen, the RJ Keen method to to do it.
00:46:08
Speaker
But then you also have, yeah, it's a it is something that happens and something I'm pretty proud of. Yeah, that's right. That's super cool because i have badges of transistors that I can't use because they're not in spec.
00:46:21
Speaker
Send them to me, dude. I'll put them in my boost and I'll put them in the fuzz. Yeah, there you go. actually that Well, the boost isn't the heated thing. well the That's the servo bias, right? The boost doesn't really care about leakage or actually gain for that matter.
00:46:37
Speaker
like You could actually throw any transistor any transistor. Any germanium transistor. Super leaky, super great. you know As long as it's not noisy, um it's got some like, you know it's it does have an emitter resistor, so it kind of it's not open loop gain, so it all kind of ends up being the same.
00:46:56
Speaker
Because you set the gain with the servo, right? Well, you set the bias with the servo. The gain is set with the emitter resistor. um I mean, more more or less. like There's going to be like 2% change between like a 20 HFE transistor and like a 100. It just doesn't actually matter. It just doesn't care. it just sets it to what it wants. It literally sounds exactly the same. Yeah, that's cool.
00:47:24
Speaker
Yeah, that circuit. When he showed me that, I was like, this is a servo. And he was like, what what do you mean? And I'm like, well, this is how like a servo, like like a you know Jensen 990 based microphone preamp that uses like a servo to cancel DC offset. Like this is a servo.
00:47:42
Speaker
It's just like working in this very unique way. It's such a cool circuit. It's i like the heating thing I feel like comes from like a, I mean, you've you you've figured it out. you You can describe it better than I can, but I feel like that comes ah up from like solving a known problem. But like the biasing thing, is just it's completely unique to me. it's It's really cool. The circuit's really awesome.
00:48:08
Speaker
Thank you very much. like Very elegant. Simple parts and does does its job well.
00:48:17
Speaker
Let's talk about more of Chris's sweet products. Yeah, let's do it. He's not blushing enough. which ah Which invention should we?
00:48:28
Speaker
When are you releasing your own ah tremolo roaches, your own ah LDR units for Fender amps? I hear there might be some sweet thermoses soon.
00:48:41
Speaker
Thank you for listening to this episode of Amplified Nonsense. Our goal is to release a new episode every other week, so please subscribe wherever you listen. If you have a question for Brian, Charles, and Chris about amps, pop culture, or relationships, please call 513-334-5134.
00:48:58
Speaker
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