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Episode 2: Man, That’s Kind of Rude
100 Plays1 month ago
What do you know about psychoacoustics? In this episode of Amplify Nonsense, hosts Chris Benson of Benson Amps, Bryan Sours of Soursound Audio Works, and Charles Henry of Silktone Amplifiers focus on psychoacoustics, the subjective experience of sound, and the quirks of audio equipment. They discuss their own personal connections to gear, how mood can affect sound perception, and experience a few audio illusions. Listener questions include topics about gear dissatisfaction, snacks, and more.
If you'd like Bryan, Charles, and Chris to answer your question on an episode of Amplified Nonsense, call (513) 334-3803 and leave a voicemail.
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Amplify Nonsense'
00:00:08
Speaker
Welcome to Amplify Nonsense, a podcast that is loosely about amplifiers and firmly about whatever these three guys want to talk about. And who are those three guys?
Meet the Hosts
00:00:18
Speaker
have Chris Benson from Benson Amps.
00:00:20
Speaker
We have Charles Henry from Silk Tone. And we have Brian Sowers from Sour Sound. How are you all doing tonight? Awesome. Really good. Pretty, pretty good.
00:00:32
Speaker
I'm so sleepy. little sleepy. How about you, Emily? um I'm good. And for those who are wondering, my name is Emily. I'm the producer. I'm not a host. ah So I'm just going to try to keep these guys on track and pop in when needed. So have fun, guys.
00:00:48
Speaker
Thank you. Thanks for babysitting us. What's up, dude? Hey. Yeah. What's new with you?
Brian's Canine Adventures
00:00:54
Speaker
We're fostering a new dog right now, so I'm very stressed out and not sleeping whatsoever.
00:01:00
Speaker
Less than usual. A second dog. Is it another little one? Yep. Yep. Chihuahua mixed with a terrier. I can't believe I have a terrier breed in my house, but he's sweet. He's real sweet.
00:01:13
Speaker
Came from the streets of Mexico. Hell yeah. Little Chuck, right? yeah His name changes every half an hour. it was Bosco. I think it's Chino right now.
00:01:24
Speaker
Can I throw a name in the ring? Because my sister-in-law got a Mexican street dog that sounds very much like this. Well, I already tried to name him Chris and he rejected it. No, no. No, it's it's not Chris. And I'm so mad that she didn't go with it. But ah Angelo.
00:01:42
Speaker
No. what color What color is he, Brian? ah He's like a chestnut brown with like larger white patches, but his face is very dark. his face is like His eyes kind of blend in to his face. Kind of little swarthy. Yeah, i you know I should have prepared a a photo to show you all.
00:02:04
Speaker
That's cute. Didn't you say he pooped in the kitchen already? Oh, yeah, twice. So he's a Charles. Yeah, no, he's a Chuck. He's for sure a Chuck. No, he's been crapping outside like a good boy. He's learning from Geezer, which to our audience members out there, Geezer is my main man. He's a Chihuahua Min Pin Cross.
00:02:25
Speaker
Chippin? what they call them? I don't know. Geezer Muttler. sir Yeah, he's not a dog. He's not a cat. He's a weird sort of hybrid creature that exists in a pocket of reality that's all of his own.
00:02:36
Speaker
Yeah, but the ah the new guy is a little exhausting. We're spoiled with Geezer. He's not a dog. He's something something unique. but and He's a bud. Yeah, I find myself having to deal with like puppy energy. Yeah.
00:02:49
Speaker
yeah It's been a lot. I'm tired. How are you guys? Geezer is shaped like a rainbow. Yeah, he's got that. He's just a big arch. He's got that Halloween cat. He does. He's always arching. This back up.
00:03:02
Speaker
Scoliosis dog. Oh my God. He's a sweetie. Oh, I love him so much. Yeah. What about you, Chris? What's what's new? but Good. Just kind of a hacking away at a warranty repair. of Super, super exciting. Amazing.
00:03:18
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Just ah du doing, running on the repair bench at a Benson. Try to limit that to about one day a week, but yeah, it's been kind of brutal last couple of weeks.
00:03:29
Speaker
Are you the only one that does the, the repairs there? Yeah. So like they'll come in and I'll usually diagnose it at least. And if it's like a quick fix, I'll do it, but I'll put one of my people on a doing it. If it's like a having to replace a tube socket or transformer or something. yeah That doesn't happen.
00:03:51
Speaker
No, it doesn't. We've never had to do that. It does not. You replaced a bunch with sour sound stuff, didn't you? Didn't you replace a bunch of mercuries or something? with No, i I steer people away from that. The mercuries sound pretty good.
00:04:08
Speaker
That's I don't want to throw Transformers in the dumpster. That's silly waste of time. People have asked me to do it a few times and I just, I say, yeah, I'll do it, but it's going to cost a lot of money and they usually shy away from it.
Guitar Tone Dissatisfaction
00:04:23
Speaker
It's a pain. we We definitely try not to, but we have done maybe one or two for people who won't leave us alone frankly that's cool so yeah we have some some topics we actually have ah an itinerary on this today or we just kind of winging it like we normally do i think we're talking about we're talking about psychoacoustics today are we let's take our first call and see what we're actually going to talk about yeah maybe it's psychoacoustics and maybe it's maybelline
00:04:53
Speaker
Hey guys, it's Matt from Ambient Trash. So ah my friend, who's definitely not me, has a problem. They'll be super stoked on their tone for a little while. Then suddenly they're not happy with it and they start changing things around, looking at new gear, buying stuff, trying to get things sounding just right.
00:05:12
Speaker
Then I, I mean my friend, We'll be stuck on it for a while again, and then ah then they'll just inevitably do it all over again. So I'm wondering if it's maybe not really the tone that my friend isn't happy with.
00:05:27
Speaker
What's your take on that? I don't hear a problem here, do you guys? i mean, this sounds like a win for all three of us. You know, this guy just keeps going through gear, sells something, buys another, just keeps on buying. i don't know. What's the problem?
00:05:40
Speaker
Yeah, sounds like he needs a Benson amp or a Soak Tone amp, and then just all the problems will be good. I've got a transformer that'll solve all the problems in your life. Yeah, yeah, Matt. Tell your friend to get some cool stuff. No, ah surprise, surprise.
00:05:55
Speaker
that's a Everyone does that. I do that designing. it Psychoacoustics is a real thing. like If you're in a bad mood, sounds bad. If you're in a good mood, it sounds amazing.
00:06:08
Speaker
That's pretty much my design process too. And sometimes it can take many years. Yeah. I'll love something one day and then I'll plug a different guitar into it and be like, this is the worst thing I've ever heard.
00:06:21
Speaker
And so, I don't know, process of triangulation, but man, in terms of buying stuff, man, I got a bunch of stuff I'll sell you. your your friend. your friend think it's all dictated by how much money's in your bank account. you know yeah You're like flush and you're feeling stable. you're like, all right, everything sounds good. Everything sounds great. And if you're broke, it's like, no, everything is just bad.
00:06:42
Speaker
This sounds like crap. I'm just going to sell it all. This is in tone. It's bone. ah Designing though. I've done that a bunch of times, like walked away from something. What's the longest you guys have ever worked on something where you're like, this isn't right yet. And then, or you don't like it. And then you come back to it six months later and go, this is actually pretty cool and end up releasing it or something. Is there anything like that that you guys have really walked away from and then come back and been like, no, this is rad.
00:07:09
Speaker
No, I never stopped. I've never okay with anything. You know, it's like a level of like self-deprecation, you know? Yeah. Yeah, just keep keep trying to improve, keep trying to, I don't know, feel like you can always do something else, you know?
00:07:25
Speaker
Yeah. I don't often change my mind and stuff like that after a period of time. Like, oh that is rad. What I'll do is it's mostly just like I i have something in my head.
00:07:37
Speaker
And then I'll try to get there and then get depressed or sidetracked or whatever. And then I'll... I won't like what's going on. though Then I'll come back to it in six months and I still don't like it, but then I just keep tweaking it and try new things. and Oh, right on. The longest kind of arc for that was ah the harmonic tremolo that we're going to be doing pretty soon. And that that probably took a full like four years. Damn.
00:08:05
Speaker
Whoa. Yeah, that's cool. But there was no changes just like, so you went back, when you went back to it, you still didn't like it, but you were just able to get past it and change it. i it It went through like 30 different iterations. Yeah. the i know when I designed my overdrive, just because I'm not in love with overdrive pedals to begin with, but um I wanted to make one that was for me. And I i went through so many different like voices with that thing, and I would think I had it and be like, okay, it's ready. I'm going to release it. This is great.
00:08:36
Speaker
And then i listened to it one day. And I was like, was I high? What the f*** was I thinking? Like, this is the harshest, grossest treble I've ever heard. Like, this is so nasty.
00:08:48
Speaker
And I'd revisit it literally the next day and be like, no, this is amazing. What was I thinking? And it would change so much just based on, like, what was going on and my mood and everything like that. And...
00:09:01
Speaker
That's crazy. Like I've experienced it a bunch with hi-fi stuff too, where like you if I'm listening to music, it always seems to sound better at night when I'm chilling. And then like during the day, I'm like, ugh. I could relate to that more with like mixing records and making music. Yeah.
00:09:18
Speaker
I actually think mixing stuff is like 90% psychological. Yeah. Yeah. Like you have to kind of know what what to pay attention to and what to think about, what kind of mood to be in And you kind of have to fool yourself into operating ah mixing desk properly.
00:09:35
Speaker
um i think that's actually 90% of the battle. And, ah you know, Brian, you've... I know you've engineered a bunch of stuff on the Grammy award-winning level. So I'm sure you can. Sure as hell didn't mix it. I hate mixing. I'm terrible at it.
00:09:51
Speaker
I love mixing. I'm a tracking engineer through and through. i just get good sounds and that's it. That's what I do. You don't have to mix it. I don't want to mix it. i'm i I don't like mixing. I'm terrible.
00:10:03
Speaker
But yeah, it's hard. You know, I don't, I don't know. I think I get too wrapped up in the details or the technical aspects of it. I'm not the best at like, um you know, soundstage placement, you know, where you put things in a mix.
00:10:16
Speaker
Cause like on paper, okay. You know, it's stereo image, right? It's left, it's right. And it's everything in between. But obviously we hear, you You know, binaurally, we hear in this, you know, space.
00:10:28
Speaker
And, you know, like Chris is saying, it's it's very much a psychological endeavor. And I just don't want to be that deep in my mind. yeah I'm too scared. Yeah, i also think too that the the there's ah this concept of like value that we ah attribute with something. you know How much we paid for it, was it a deal?
00:10:49
Speaker
And that like totally influences how you feel about something. you know I had this DOD delay, analog delay, I think it was the performer 585 or 585B or something like that.
00:11:01
Speaker
And I think I got it for 80 bucks or something. And it's cool, it has one or two, I think it has one MN3005 in it, you know, it's actually a good Bucket Brigade delay, but you know, it's not amazing by any regards, not very good fidelity, but I paid so little for it and it did one thing pretty well that to this day, i'm oh, that's, that was a badass design. That was a fantastic pedal, but really. So you love it because of that. Yeah, I love it, but it's really just like, it's cheap. You know, if if you said that thing was $600 and be like, no,
00:11:36
Speaker
No, no, no. I don't like that at all. Not worth it. I don't like that. Yeah. So there is this kind of like, there's a value thing. I think there's so much, so many aspects like that. Not just how much did I pay for it, but what intrinsic value does it have?
00:11:48
Speaker
Sentimentally, like, you know we've all We've all fixed amps or dealt with people who have like the guitar or the amp that their grandfather played in a you know so country swing band you know or something for the last 60 years. like We've all met people like that, or maybe you guys even have gear like that.
00:12:06
Speaker
That stuff always has a sound. It always has something. Even in repair with repair jobs, I feel like ah you would hear it. There was always something there. that Not nostalgia, but kind of like... ah I don't know, just an emotional connection.
00:12:21
Speaker
And at the end of the day, isn't that essentially what psychoacoustics is, is emotional connection to how our brain is processing. Well, I guess that's backwards. The emotion, the brain processing of our emotionally charged brain.
00:12:40
Speaker
the sonic impressions. Just to pop in, psychoacoustics is technically the branch of psychology concerned with the perception of sounds and its physiological effects.
Sentimental Gear Attachments
00:12:51
Speaker
So that is a part of it. Oh, so I'm right. All right. Yeah. I'm going to turn this question around and ask you guys, what piece of gear do you have that you know is not a good piece of gear, but it does something and it speaks to you and maybe it doesn't speak to anyone else on the internet, but what do you got?
00:13:09
Speaker
I have a ah Guild d thirty five guitar, like acoustic from like 1979. Yeah.
00:13:18
Speaker
And it was the first nice guitar that I ever bought. And I didn't have a whole lot of money at the time. So I did actually go to every music store in Seattle for months, trying everything and trying to figure out like what I could get.
00:13:33
Speaker
That would be my perfect perfect acoustic. And ah it ended up being that. And that it's not technically a nice guitar, It's like, it season it might be a thousand dollars on a good day. It's not like a D28 or a D35 from like Martin or something, but it is mine.
00:13:54
Speaker
And I think it sounds better to than everything. And ah I've used it on a bunch of like recordings and friends of mine have used it on a bunch of recordings. So it just had, like, it's just something that my ear is drawn to when I hear it.
00:14:08
Speaker
It speaks to you on something other than just, yeah you know, a surface level. Yeah. Yeah. Mine is, i have a couple, my, my seventies SG I am in love with, and it almost offends me when other people pick it up and like, aren't blown away by it.
00:14:24
Speaker
Like it just sounds so good to me. It's the guitar I learned on and it just, everything about it sounds great. And I'll be like, yeah, check this one out. And other people will be like, yeah, it's fine. It's an SG. And like, you don't get me.
00:14:38
Speaker
But, uh, that, or, um, the i have um an old Shinai FY2 that I love, and technically, like it's not a great pedal. It gates, it's weird, it does weird, it's a weird circuit, it does weird everything, and you can only get like one tone out of it, but I love it to death.
00:15:04
Speaker
this is actually kind of nice gear. I was looking for like the $200, $125 Ludwig rocker crap snare drum you started playing drums on or something. Yeah.
00:15:15
Speaker
What's your piece of gear, Brian? I already listed off a couple. the the Obviously, the... the dod performer that was really cool ah yeah this crappy snare drum that i played in a high school concert band which i mean played that in rock and metal bands for i don't know like 15 years really great drum piece of crap but emily what do you what do you got for us on this I'm a little less emotionally attached to gear, which is surprising to me.
00:15:49
Speaker
So as far as as that goes, it's it's hard for me to think of one thing that is like crap or cheap or whatever that I feel a strong connection to. And I'm genuinely surprised to say that.
00:16:07
Speaker
I mean, I sold my i've sold my first guitar at a garage sale. i It's so the things come and go. there are things they will never things I'll never get rid of. But as far as having a piece of gear and associating that with the sound and wanting to use that forever or loving it, even though cheap and crappy, I can't really think of anything.
00:16:28
Speaker
I admire your your ability to ah have gear disconnection. Yeah. Ice queen.
00:16:37
Speaker
Well, to to bring it back to psychoacoustics, it makes me wonder if there's something going on in Matt's friend's life that when maybe these triggers happen, he's interested in buying something. It could just be general retail therapy, or it could be something related to, I'm in a bad mood, I'm in a bad place, everything sounds bad. Yeah. Yeah.
00:16:59
Speaker
Maybe he's like serially breaking up relationships. Like he's in and out of a relationship every like three or four days. Dates someone named Fender, leaves them for a marshal, that sort of thing.
00:17:11
Speaker
he listen Like it cries to Debbie Gibson by the Les Pauls. Yeah, we're just we're dealing with a playboy over here. deer slut. You know, I saw his demo of that new Fairfield pedal.
00:17:26
Speaker
And I bet ah bet that's the pedal he's sticking with. It probably is. That thing sounded so good. Did he have that look on his face in the in the demo? Like, did he look like he was enjoying it? he fall in love? I don't... I don't think you ever see his face in the demos. I could be wrong about that. You see his sweet riffs. Matt Ross, so its his demos are rad when he gets an especially cool piece of gear like that that just really complements his playing style. For the listeners, they're talking about the Fairfield Circuitry 20% more pedal.
00:17:52
Speaker
Hey, we can't. No, we can't do that. Not without getting paid. Come on. You want me to cut that out? We'll send you a bill of Fairfield. yeah Yep. I want it.
00:18:02
Speaker
Yeah. They send us a pedal and we just fight over it. Did we answer his question or did we just like ridicule his inability to maintain in a single piece of gear this whole time? Yeah, I don't remember. Sorry, Matt. The ah the question was, is it a normal thing to... Can we hear it again? Yeah, of course.
00:18:25
Speaker
Let's try this again. We'll do better. Hey guys, it's Matt from Ambient Trash. so my friend, who is definitely not me, has a problem. They'll be super stoked on their tone for a little while.
00:18:38
Speaker
then suddenly they're not happy with it and they start changing things around, looking at new gear, buying stuff, trying to get things sounding just right. Then i I mean my friend will be stoked on it for a while again and then ah the they'll just inevitably do it all over again. So I'm wondering if it's maybe not really the tone that my friend isn't happy with.
00:19:01
Speaker
What's your take on that? Okay, so that, I was trying to answer it in a psychoacoustics way, because I thought that's what we were talking about, but I think that's a little different. And it sounds like you just have a ah hole missing, Matt, and you need to fill it, maybe with something other than gear, maybe. Matt's friend, Matt's a friend. friend's Matt's friend. i think we should change directions on it. We should, we should.
00:19:24
Speaker
Maybe try Craigslist encounters or something like that. No. I mean, probably don't try that. All right, we're going to check from Craigslist.
00:19:37
Speaker
I think i think we should we should change directions on it, and we should admit that he is, in fact, talking about himself, and that he does, in fact, have a career of it you know receiving a piece of equipment and you know putting it through its paces, doing a demo video of it, and then sending it on its way. So I think the issue here is his occupation, that, in fact, his profession has...
00:20:00
Speaker
blended psychoacoustically, if you will, with his everyday life. And really the guy just needs to quit his job and like go work in a supermarket, like putting milk on shelves. And then he'll be happy with his tone.
00:20:12
Speaker
He'll be happy with his gear. He'll just be super stoked. I think it's a deep rooted case of separation anxiety. And Matt, what you're really feeling is just that the pedals will leave you eventually. So you put up barricades to protect yourself and you need to just realize like they're not going anywhere, dude. You can love each one equally on a different day of the week and just enjoy what they do and enjoy them while you can.
00:20:40
Speaker
Wow, that's real California over there. That's real that's real Frasier. Yeah. That's good.
00:20:49
Speaker
And by good, I mean kind of bad.
00:20:53
Speaker
Nailed it. Next question. Well, I actually had something kind of I thought might be a little bit fun for you all. So you can say, off Emily, I'm not doing this. Part of psychoacoustics that when I was researching it I found out that there are audio illusions just like there are optical illusions.
Exploring Audio Illusions
00:21:13
Speaker
And I had a couple of examples of those. One is this is kind of, i think, stereophonic sound. If you want to make something sound like it's stereo, but you only have a mono signal, you can hard pan one and then set it just a skosh delayed on the left side yeah yeah that's one i think a lot of people know about that are you familiar with the i think it's called the reset accelerando accelerando think it's fresh that might be say maybe if you explain what it is but i don't know that term so it's this infinite loop that sounds like it's continuously getting faster even though as a whole it is not do you want to hear it
00:21:57
Speaker
Sure. All right. Are we going to listen to it forever? You can listen to it for 24 minutes because that's exactly how long this video is. This audio sample is, I mean.
00:22:16
Speaker
It does sound like it's getting faster.
00:22:26
Speaker
It goes on like that for literally 24 minutes. And though there are little pieces of it getting faster as a whole, if you are just tapping in that BPM, it will average out.
00:22:36
Speaker
Man, that's that was intense. It made me feel really uneasy and really uncomfortable. I think ah i think I've been psychoacoustically Frasered.
00:22:48
Speaker
and made me feel cool. made me feel young. Yeah. yeah, that was a kind of a crazy one. But what happens is ah it does get faster in pieces, but it fades out as it gets faster, as it fades in the original tempo or something like that.
00:23:07
Speaker
A listener can correct us. Right. Right. There's other stuff too, where like they'll put stuff in a song and like, they'll be doing, you know, they'll be doing a verse and put in just like one little melody hook and not repeat it on, you know, the following bars, but your brain will fill it in. Like there's a lot of stuff in music where your brain fills in the blanks.
00:23:32
Speaker
They'll leave it out to, you know, simplify the song and everything. But if they introduce it one time, your brain repeats it and, Yeah, I don't know what that's called, but I know that's a thing too.
00:23:46
Speaker
And then um there's all kinds of stuff. I remember... um I read this really cool interview with Kevin Shields from My Bloody Valentine talking about how someone was asking him, like, how do you still mix stuff when, like, you're so famous for playing on stages that are, like, like world record setting loudness and everything.
00:24:09
Speaker
Your ears have to be blown out by now. So many people lose their high-pitched hearing over time. How do you... still mix records and have all of that data like how do you get all of that musical information when your ears must be totally blown out and he was talking about how people who are constantly exposed to music like that um Apparently there was a study done and like mixing engineers or or just musicians in general, if you do a brain scan while they're listening to music, their brain is like five times more active than just like a casual listener.
00:24:49
Speaker
So again, it just like fills in the blanks and it just knows what's supposed to be there according to those studies. I always thought that was super interesting. That is cool. Next question.
00:25:01
Speaker
ah Emily, do you have... and It seems like you have a list of psychoacoustic effects. have one more example. yeah Is it the Fletcher-Munson curve? Because that's a really important one. No, please tell us about that.
00:25:15
Speaker
Why didn't I think of that? okay The Fletcher-Munson curve is actually super pertinent to amplification in general. and It describes basically how your ears are not...
00:25:28
Speaker
linear so when you hear like when you're playing like a i don't know Nirvana song really quietly on the stereo the frequency response that you're hearing is actually a lot different than if you took that same track on the same stereo and turned it up in volume So when you turn it up, you hear a lot more of the bass and treble in proportion to the midrange.
00:25:55
Speaker
And so they they call it the Fletcher Munson curve to describe. They actually have a ah curve drawn ah different decibel levels to show how you perceive sound. And I personally think it's the... ah The reason people think little amps sound small, even if they kind of sound the same, like frequency wise.
00:26:17
Speaker
And the reason that people hate attenuators because they're not getting the rad, you know, treble and bass out of the attenuator and they accuse it of shaving different frequencies off.
00:26:29
Speaker
but it's really only making it quieter. I'm sure some of them do shave it off, but we're talking about perception here. So it's a I wonder if that would qualify as a psycho acoustic effect. Totally.
00:26:41
Speaker
Yeah. I believe so. That can also be known as the equal loudness contour and the Fletcher Munson curve is one of those. I've done the, I've done tests with attenuators, just designing mine and stuff. And like, it,
00:26:53
Speaker
you can If you mic it up, you can if you listen back to it mic'd up, you can't tell a difference and it's totally just like frequency replica.
00:27:04
Speaker
But in the room, yeah, you perceive like much lower bass or like a sharper treble or something. I think that also has to do with, I think in the terms of a guitar amp or speakers, it has to do with the speaker breakup or just the amount of air you're moving, you know, like it loud just feels better. I'm not sure it necessarily sounds better. Oh yeah. I'm not, I won't argue that, but it is interesting to think about why loud sounds better.
00:27:38
Speaker
They do that with high, high five speakers too. Like everyone, I know a lot of speaker designers that like, know, It's so important to them to get like a flat frequency response when they measure the speakers they want them to be accurate from 20 hertz to 20 kilohertz and all of the speakers I've heard sound like trash when they go to 20 kilohertz because it just does not sound natural.
00:28:02
Speaker
in the room. I think the ear wants a high end roll off, even on playback. And it just sounds a lot more musically satisfying, but people get really hung up on, on, um, specs and stuff.
00:28:17
Speaker
I think time alignment between the low end and the high end also matters with that too. that's huge. You know, I mean, it's... Yeah, that's huge one. If you're hearing the high frequency faster than the low, obviously, it's going to wear your hearing out much more too.
00:28:30
Speaker
Yeah, but all the fancy good ones have a tilt and all the drivers are time aligned and stuff. and stuff so And also the Fletcher Munson curve is the exact reasoning why you have that crappy loudness button on your old car stereo. Yeah.
00:28:43
Speaker
Don't you mean the awesome loudness button? No. What is that loudness button? I remember seeing it, but never really knew what it did. Did it boost the bass and the treble?
00:28:54
Speaker
Yes, but it it's supposed to be volume dependent. Like the concept is supposed to be that the intensity, if you will, of the filter, the intensity of the low end and the high end that it brings in is supposed to go down as you turn the volume control up.
00:29:10
Speaker
But, you know, obviously like, just a button on a car stereo i had my kia had this weird dsp effect where it would like it was kind of like a loudness button where it would kind of bring stuff in but it only seemed to work if i was on the gas pedal like as soon as i would stop the music would get like quieter and boring again it was it was really weird because it would just make me want to go fast but that sounds like an alternator problem boys yeah it might have been That's a failing alternator.
00:29:43
Speaker
I believe that's a safety feature that was built into cars to, when you slammed on your brakes, make your audio a lot quieter. Oh, that's dumb.
00:29:55
Speaker
Need a soundtrack for a crash. I got in a car accident at one time and all I can remember from it is, so we flipped the car coming off the freeway off the off ramp and it rolled like three times. And um Ursula Finally Has Tits by The Queers was playing and we all like scuttled out of the car and it was just blasting that song super loud. And that's all I can remember.
00:30:17
Speaker
It just reminded me of it. Apparently that could also be a voltage issue with the cars. But I have one other... Auditory illusion. And it's called the speech to song all illusion. Are you all familiar? No.
00:30:34
Speaker
No. It was discovered in 1995, and it's the idea that a spoken phrase will be repeated several times without altering it in any way and and without providing any context.
00:30:46
Speaker
And the repetition causes the phrase to transform perceptually from speech into song. And I have an example that I made. Don't hate me, Brian.
00:31:00
Speaker
Also, is he saying that he doesn't have a personal relationship with you? Man, that's kind of rude. Man, that's kind of rude. Man, that's kind of rude. Man, that's kind of rude. Man, that's kind of rude. That's a hit. Man, that's kind of rude. That's super rude.
00:31:15
Speaker
That's a hit. Now put that sweet speeding up drum track to it. Yeah, definitely. yeah I'm not sure I can. Can you send that to me? Oh, you can do anything.
00:31:30
Speaker
Chris is going to do a whole animation around that. I'll email that to all of you. but you could hear how it got, you you can kind of get it sing-songy after you hear it about three times.
00:31:43
Speaker
I'm full of music. It just exudes from every syllable out of my orifices. It does. Every time I call Brian, I start the conversation with sing to me.
00:31:54
Speaker
But ah if people were asked to like write that out in musical notation, everyone who could do that, it would be pretty identical. So it's just ah one of those interesting audio illusions.
00:32:07
Speaker
Yeah, that's wild. Next question coming in. Hi.
Transformer Qualities Discussion
00:32:12
Speaker
It's your old pal, Buddy Blues. I have a question. Why in amps are some Transformers regarded as bad?
00:32:23
Speaker
What would make a transformer bad? they would say Oh, it's a bad transformer, and it's going to ruin the tone of the amp. And also, why would a transformer be of extremely high quality?
00:32:39
Speaker
I guess this would go to Sowers, this question. But what would make a transformer high quality, and how could that really affect the sound of an amp? Thanks.
00:32:52
Speaker
I got this one. Yeah. No, oh no, no. I would rather hear your answers than mine because I have answers and well, who knows what you guys have?
00:33:02
Speaker
I want to hear from you. Oh, that's boring. Sing it. Sing it. Yeah. How rude. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, there's a lot of factors. And I would ask questions about is power transformers, an output transformer, or a choke, or an interstage, or something else?
00:33:23
Speaker
Is an audio transformer? i think people are kind of a little obsessed with what is good, what is bad, what is right, what is wrong. And I think that when it comes to audio, what you hear in the end and what, ah what you know as we've discussed, emotional connections to what you hear,
00:33:40
Speaker
that's that That's really what matters. And there's other aspects, of course, with construction and reliability and things like that that come into play. But I think there's a textbook definition of what a good transformer is.
00:33:53
Speaker
And there's a ah definition with, you know, amp builder or, you know, a pro audio designer or a guitar player as to what a good transformer is.
00:34:05
Speaker
you know From the technical and the book stance, it's usually going to be ah winding capacitance, trying to minimize that, which if you're trying to explain these things as fast as possible, things that are caused by the actual manufacturing of the transformer that aren't necessarily inherent to what is actually in the transformer, meaning consequences of making something one way versus another. Man, you're still in the weeds right now.
00:34:35
Speaker
Yeah, man, it's just like it's such a broad question, like what makes something good or what makes something bad. i mean, I think it's just back to a perception thing. Yeah, I kind of feel like ah I want to start it over because it's just like it's so much stuff and i my brain couldn't really.
00:34:52
Speaker
can I take a layman's shot at it really quick? Only if you pick your microphone back up.
00:34:58
Speaker
Okay. Let's make you rethink it Let's make you rethink it from a less technical point. Okay. Here's here's my layman's lay layman's take on this. I think a transformer is good if you like it yeah that's That's it.
00:35:13
Speaker
And that is completely divorced from the characteristics that make a transformer a good transformer or bad transformer. There's so many guitar amps out there with bad transformers that sound...
00:35:26
Speaker
incredible where if you put like a good transformer or a well manufactured transformer with really good parts, it would actually sound worse or wouldn't sound as good.
00:35:38
Speaker
So I think like the quality of the transformer the how much you like the Transformer are... but They're separate things. Completely divorced. That was really bad. I'm sorry about that.
00:35:50
Speaker
I got it. Mine's very similar to what what you were going to say, but I had it in my mind just to approach it in a different way. And yeah, I think the only bad Transformer would be a failing one, something that just doesn't work.
00:36:04
Speaker
And I think there are transformers that are fine or any part that's fine. It does its job. It makes, it passes the signal. It makes music. It's okay. And then there are really great transformers or great part, any part.
00:36:19
Speaker
And I think the really great ones don't kill the, the vibe or musicality of what is coming through them. Like, I think there's a,
00:36:30
Speaker
very small difference between like crappy whatever parts and decent fine good parts and a very big difference between ah when everything just works together and is exceptional.
00:36:45
Speaker
It comes down to sound and it's all subjective like you said Chris but I've had Transformers that were a very similar spec in my builds and replaced them with sour sound and it was an exceptional difference. Like it just took off veils that you don't realize are there until you hear it.
00:37:07
Speaker
And part of it could be an EQ thing. Part of it could be a quality of the build or a quality of the parts. But what I identify as a great part is something that just, it lets the amp breathe with life and musicality in a way that other parts don't.
00:37:27
Speaker
Well, yeah, like your 15-watt output transformer when we started that, you know, the one that you were using had so much winding capacitance on the primary that it had that kind of nasally upper-mid resonance. And i remember talking to you about it and hearing about kind of your obsession with hi-fi gear and whatnot and thinking about that transform, it was like, what...
00:37:50
Speaker
Why? No, we have to fix that because like your ears, I mean, that just doesn't go with your brand, your brain and your ear at all. Silky enough. Exactly. It wasn't, but yeah, exactly what Chris said. What,
00:38:05
Speaker
What part works to bring out the exceptional qualities of of a circuit, of a build, and make it you know more musical and, as Charles said, not cover anything up or not veil anything? I think that's was that's what makes a good part. There's plenty of technical aspects and reliability aspects down to construction.
00:38:29
Speaker
you know Those are obviously quite important and does make ah a quality part versus a non-quality part, but... In the end, and this is I feel like the big disconnect with kind of modern transformer manufacturing is that Every aspect of these transformers has an impact on the sound and the feel of a piece of equipment.
00:38:49
Speaker
When you pigeonhole what you make into being made just one way or designed just one one one way, only made on a bobbin or only made on paper and only designed like in this type of current density. And this these are the other parameters that you focus on when you limit yourself when when you limit what you actually produce then you're creating kind of the same part over and over again even if it has different part numbers I mean even if it has different winding geometry but the one thing that I really hold to heart is that
00:39:23
Speaker
We try and make everything in different contexts and different different topologies. you know We try to design everything to utilize whatever is good or bad, you know what the internet says, to bring out whatever sound is in the designer's head. And that's that's the big thing is you can take something that's crappy. You know, we've got those late fifties Fender Bob and wound transformers that were in Tweed Champs, Princeton's Deluxe.
00:39:51
Speaker
But they do a thing. Yeah. they They're garbage. They're total garbage. They're they're the quintessential. that That's a Bad transformer. Right. Technically speaking. Yeah. and the way that they're made, they create that upper mid resonance because the self resonance frequency, of the transformer and the primary capacitance is so high.
00:40:07
Speaker
But that nasal weird cut thing that it does. Those transformers sound really cool. Would I put one in a Benson? Hell no. Or a silk tone or no. ah It wouldn't work at all.
00:40:19
Speaker
That's why I love audio design, because it's anything goes. like any weird Any weirdness to the circuit that makes it unique and character like characterful is can be a good thing, and it's good. and it's just yeah Like you're saying, there's a spice for every dish.
00:40:34
Speaker
You wouldn't put the same spice in other... I'm not going to put Cholula on water... Actually, might put Cholula water. I mean, fusion thing you want to go down that rabbit hole.
Audio Equipment and Food Analogy
00:40:47
Speaker
Yep. I think the ah culinary metaphors are all going to be very apt. I was thinking about like pizza. Like, yeah, sometimes the good pizza is ah bad pizza. Yeah.
00:40:57
Speaker
Have you had a pizza with like fig and ham on it? Who would put fruit on a pizza? Fig and ham, though? Holy. It's one of the best pizzas I've ever had. I love pineapple on pizza, but I do, too. I'm a big I'm a big pineapple on pizza guy.
00:41:11
Speaker
Only with jalapeno though. I need the spice to to balance it out. You know, I've never met... This is Buddy Blues, right? It is Buddy Blues. Hi, Buddy. Yeah, I've never met him, but you've you've talked very highly of him. so He's a great dude. want to give him this like over-the-top crazy question or a quick crazy answer to his question, but I'm like, that's a two-hour conversation.
00:41:30
Speaker
And like, I need more input from him in order to answer all the specifics of the question. So I'm like... How do you quantify good or bad? Well, it's all good if it works and it's all bad if it's not ours. I'll give you his phone number.
00:41:46
Speaker
He sent me a video last night that was like someone recording a bunch of audio files listening like listening to speakers. like It was a video recording of like, look at this cool room. And it was like this million dollar Wilson audio system. And ah like just like 30 people in like assembly chairs listening to it. And he was like, I hate every part of this. And I was like, me too, dude.
00:42:10
Speaker
There's glass on the back wall. There's no room treatment can like all these people are in the way of the sound get those cables off the front No, dude, just kidding. That's not why I hate it. Go go to a concert. What are you guys doing?
00:42:25
Speaker
it sounds just like a concert yeah yeah look oh i hate it that's why i got out of hi-fi i can't stand it ge oh do you hear that listen to how perfect du this is i'm gonna do a callback on what we've been talking about truly a good transformer in any way shape regard how it's using a circuit truly a ah great transformer versus a bad transformer is going to be one that yeah how It has sour sound sticker on Yeah, exactly. yeah took note But seriously, one that elicits an emotional response because I think that so much of of transformer design is just so like flat, went with what people do, with what companies do in the modern world.
00:43:09
Speaker
My job is to so listen to you fools and hear kind of what's in your head and try and, like i said, bring something to the table. Bring, elicit an emotional response in a player. That's what makes a good amp great. That's what makes a good guitar great.
00:43:24
Speaker
and it sounds right, it is right. Yeah, exactly. But, you know, again, that psychoacoustic part of it, if you can... create if you can put a few more turns on a transformer which is this sounds completely ridiculous but this is literally what we do every day if you can pick just the right thickness of paper in between sections that makes that that guitar player think oh this is not harsh it's really smooth it's almost silky if you will yeah i mean that truly is that's what we're doing and that's what i think is a good transformer a great transformer Mine's more of a butt stack thing, if I remember right. Oh yeah, you're obsessed single-ended.
00:44:02
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, you were making a joke. Sorry. Okay. Yes and no, but I like to stack those butts. I think we can do one more call. And if anybody who's listening would like to have their question answered by these three for some reason, you can call 513-334-3803 with questions about Amp's life, love, and laughter.
00:44:28
Speaker
hit us up. Please. And we'll see what becomes of it. Firstly, I think it's really funny that Emily is doing your answering machine message.
00:44:40
Speaker
Secondly, i want to know ah what you guys are snacking on these days. Yeah. It's Dave, the way. did In case you didn't know. Hell yeah, it's Dave.
00:44:53
Speaker
Okay, bye. Does he mean like snacks or like what slice of life are we snacking on right now? He definitely just means snacks. For sure. Literal food. Yeah. That's that's the best question. Literal food.
00:45:08
Speaker
Watermelon and Cholula pretty soon here. Let's try that out. sir I just have to say, have you all never had mango and like tahini? Yeah, I've had watermelon and tahini and mango and tahini. I've had it. It's good. Then why wouldn't watermelon and hot sauce be awesome? That's why I immediately withdrew my answer. I was like, watermelon. Wait a second.
00:45:27
Speaker
Tahini and hot sauce are two different things to to my sophisticated palate. But I do love tahini. I definitely put that on a lot of stuff. I'll hot sauce anything. I feel like the tahini has a lime aspect to it, which ties into fruit better.
00:45:42
Speaker
Yeah. I feel like the lime is making a a bridge between the fruit and the ah ah spiciness. Yeah. I've been snacking on ah strawberries and blueberries a lot lately.
00:45:53
Speaker
I've been dieting. I'm trying to watch my watch my figure. And ah so it's a lot of protein and berries. That's boring. Yeah, I know.
00:46:04
Speaker
That's really boring. I got a good one. All right. What is it? I've been making my own beef jerky. Oh, hell yeah. You got a dehydrator? um No, I've got a ah ah Traeger grill that has my my wife's ah grandfather gave us.
00:46:18
Speaker
Sweet. And so I've been... She was gone for a week and I just spent the entire time making beef jerky. Yeah. That rocks.
00:46:28
Speaker
All the way up to getting a commercial food slicer. Do do anything like weird meats? Are you like, I'm a duck jerky or like squirrel jerky or something?
00:46:40
Speaker
You know, I haven't haven't run it over anything interesting lately, but we'll see. um No, it's it's just been like, you know, bad cuts of beef at like Winco or whatever.
00:46:52
Speaker
Do you have enough to send to a bud or... I really have to make more and more and more and more. I've always wanted to make it. That sounds bomb.
00:47:02
Speaker
Yeah. when If you, if you make too much sometime, I want some. I'll try to make like a ton and then I'll send it out to you. Hell yeah. That'd be rad. Brian, have you been snacking on?
00:47:14
Speaker
Smoothies, smoothies and peanut butter. You know, the the regular amount of chips.
00:47:22
Speaker
From Ohio, we eat a lot of chips, man. you like can't Emily knows this, at least I hope so. Maybe this is like a weird Northern Ohio thing, but... No, it's not a weird Northern Ohio thing. Alright, good, good. Yeah, like chips.
00:47:36
Speaker
lot of chips. Too much chips. A reasonable amount of chips. Like Zaps? Is it Zaps? Is that the one that they always had at Jungle Jim's? We had snyder a Snyder's plant. Snyder's of Berlin. Yeah, Snyder. Like the the pretzels.
00:47:50
Speaker
Yeah, we had a plant in Columbus that made all the barbecue chips, and they used to just throw out boxes of, you know, like, oh, the print was bad on the bags or whatever. So you just get free chips constantly.
00:48:01
Speaker
Every punk house in Columbus had free potato chips. Yeah, that's great. I would eat chips at every waking minute if I could. Beer and chips I can't keep in the house because I will just eat and drink them all.
00:48:15
Speaker
If I buy a bag of chips, it's gone in an hour. See, if you don't drink the beer, you can eat all the chips. It's balanced. It's a certain amount. You just you fill one one with the other. I really like those kettle-cooked, ridged salt and pepper chips.
00:48:31
Speaker
Like the ridged ones, like ruffles, kind of. Those hurt at my mouth. Crinkle cut. There you go. Crinkle cut, kettle cooked, salt and pepper.
00:48:41
Speaker
going to the store. but That was a pretty gratuitous cursing. This question really has just sparked something inside of Charles. That thing is hunger. It's dinner time. yeah i miss I miss food. i'm I'm tired of these strawberries and blueberries as good
Conclusion and Listener Call-to-Action
00:48:57
Speaker
as they are.
00:48:57
Speaker
Thank you for listening to this episode of Amplified Nonsense. Our goal is to release a new episode every other week, so please subscribe wherever you listen. If you have a question for Brian, at Charles, and Chris about amps, pop culture, or relationships, please call five one three three three four three eight zero three and leave a voicemail.
00:49:20
Speaker
If you enjoyed this episode of Amplified Nonsense, please leave a rating and review. Thanks again, and we'll see you soon.