Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Tokyo Godfathers || Chatsu-Nani?!
297 Plays3 years ago
In the final episode of the year, the Chatsu-Nani?! trio take on the festive anime film Tokyo Godfathers.
Thank you all so much for supporting the podcast. From all of us here, have a Happy New Year!
For more Satsunami content, please click here!
For more Chatsunami content, please click here!
--- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/chatsunami/message
Recommended
![[Spoiler Free] THEY DID IT?! Let's talk about Sonic x Shadow Generations || Chatsu Shorts image](https://media.zencastr.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=112,quality=85/image-files/6184f404ff8e31006d3165c2/95064aad-4b5f-43ca-961c-2d51f675a22f.png)
Transcript
Introduction and Guest Introduction
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to Chatsunami.
00:00:17
Speaker
Hello, everybody, and welcome to another episode of Chatsunami. I'm Satsunami, your friendly local Grinch, and joining me today are my very festive friends, Green Shield. Yo ho ho, and a bottle of rum. Oh, that's the wrong thing. God damn it, Green Shield, you had one job. And Adam. Hello, hello, festive greetings to one and all. I'm excited to continue my journey into anime. Yeah, have you been regretting it so far, or do you think it's a worthwhile journey?
00:00:45
Speaker
No, I think overall been a worthwhile journey. I've not enjoyed every step of it, but you know, on the whole, I have been glad that I've undertaken this quest.
Review of 'Tokyo Godfathers'
00:00:54
Speaker
Yes, and there's no better sandwich to do it, so we applaud you. We applaud your bravery. A shonen's journey indeed. A shonen sandwich, of course. Michael, I would watch that anime. But anyway, my brainstorming slash sponsorship ideas aside, today we're actually going to be talking about a very festive anime.
00:01:12
Speaker
anime film where we're going to be talking about one that takes place really between Christmas and New Year. So we're kind of cheating with this one. We've got all the festive holidays covered in this one. That of course is the film Tokyo Godfathers which was actually recommended by you Green Shield and I've gotta ask, where did you hear about this film?
00:01:35
Speaker
I first heard about this movie from a YouTube movie reviewer who I've, I don't watch all the time, but I've watched a few of his things. And he usually talks about live action movies. It's very rare that he'll go into animation and particularly anime. So I was quite curious to hear what he had to say about this movie that I had never heard of. He was reviewing it retroactively.
00:01:55
Speaker
Cause the movie itself came out in 2003, but he was having a look at it and he was waxing lyrically about how wonderful this movie is. And I'd watched some of the director's other films and content. So I was aware of the movie because of that.
Christmas in Japan Traditions
00:02:10
Speaker
And upon sort of looking for a good holiday anime to watch with you guys, I came across Tokyo Godfathers and I thought, well, this is as good a time as any to finally check it out. This is the first time viewing for me as well as, as well as it was for both of you. So I'm keen to hear what you guys think of it.
00:02:24
Speaker
And I have to admit, when you and I, and of course Adam as well, we were all talking about trying to find a festive anime to review, they are really few and far between, aren't they? Yeah, it might have something to do with the fact that it's not actively celebrated in Japan. I mean, there's that.
00:02:42
Speaker
There's not a whole lot of content to work with in that regard. But yeah, there is a very limited selection. My limited understanding of Christmas in Japan is that it is treated almost like Valentine's Day is here. Like it's almost like a holiday for couples. And so it isn't the same kind of celebration. Funnily enough, instead of having like a traditional Christmas turkey or ham dinner, they would have KFC. That's definitely true. Yeah, KFC became the
00:03:11
Speaker
the Christmas dinner to have in Japan. I mean, they must just be rubbing their hands when Christmas is coming along. In fact, is it not something to do with the mascot looking like Santa or something? Or is that just that? It is. There was an advertising campaign from KFC in Japan, Japan's KFC franchise, because the Japanese people said that Colonel Sanders looked like Santa.
00:03:32
Speaker
So they would dress up the Colonel Sanders from outside to look like Santa even more so. And then they made a whole deal about like, order your KFC Christmas family bucket in advance. And so people have to make sure they ordered, they ordered their KFC like well in advance, like you would for a Christmas dinner over here for your Turkey. It's quite a novelty, but apparently it's, it's been commonplace for many years now in Japan. See, Adam, you thought you were coming on here to talk about Tokyo Godfathers, but no, you're coming on here to talk about Japanese Christmas traditions.
Director Satoshi Kon and Film Influences
00:04:00
Speaker
I should have known there'd be a massive swerve.
00:04:17
Speaker
So what you're saying is if this fails, then we should just open like a restaurant or something. That's what Adam and I were discussing in one of the previous episodes that we're going to be opening a sandwich shop called Bombastic Schmorgesbord. We're still working on the details, so don't... I'm still getting the whole back plan ready.
00:04:31
Speaker
But it's not a Chatsunami slash Nani episode without a huge tangent.
00:04:35
Speaker
Yeah, we're still getting the business details, but putting our business ventures aside. So yeah, we all went away and watched Tokyo Godfathers. So being the resident expert of course on anime, Green Shield, what is this film all about?
00:04:50
Speaker
So Tokyo Godfathers, which is a Satoshi Kon movie, Satoshi Kon being the director of other properties like Perfect Blue, Millennium Actress, the show Paranoia Agent, and the film Paprika, he made this movie back in 2003, just in between Millennium Actress and Paprika, and he and Fauci passed away several years ago.
00:05:11
Speaker
The film is set on Christmas Eve initially, as we said, it moves along in the calendar to about New Year's, New Year's Eve, New Year's Day, where three homeless people, a teenage girl, Miyuki, a middle-aged man, Jin or Gin, and a drag queen called Hannah or Hanal find a lost or abandoned baby and seek to find the baby's parents to return it.
00:05:29
Speaker
The film's loosely based on John Ford's Three Godfathers, which is a 1948 movie, which starred John Wayne. And it was a Western about three outlaws who ended up taking care of a newborn baby after the mother passes away. It was made by Madhouse production. We've mentioned Madhouse since the previous Chatsunanis 4. They're a huge production studio and arguably one of the best anime production studios in Japan. The film was very well received with both a 91% fresh rating on Rotten Tomatoes
00:05:55
Speaker
in both the critic and audience scores. So exactly the same critic and audience scores received 91%. So it was really, really highly rated both at the time and now that it's quite amusing. You get to see critic ratings from 2004, as well as from last year on there, because people are just still just discovering that. The writer of the movie, Kiko Nabumuto, she also wrote for Cowboy Bebop. She actually passed away this past weekend from when we were recording this.
00:06:21
Speaker
It was quite surreal that I think on the day that I watched it, she passed away. So that was very bizarre and I hope she rests in peace, but it's quite interesting that that was the case. Satoshi Kon himself passed away back in 2010 from cancer, aged just 46, so very young.
00:06:38
Speaker
only directed four movies, but it's considered one of the greatest Japanese directors of all time just because of how wonderful his movies are. So I have actually just purchased Millennium Actress. I've never seen it. I want to watch that. I have seen Perfect Blue and I've seen most of Paranoid Agent and I need to watch Paprika. So I have a fairly big Satoshi Kon gap that I need to fill, but I would recommend, particularly for you, Adam, that you check out Perfect Blue. I think that that'd be a really good one. It inspired the film Black Swan. So I recommend you check that one out. I'll have to note that now.
00:07:05
Speaker
See I was actually surprised because and I'm kind of jumping the gun a bit here but in this film there's like an easter egg apparently where his like previous work is put into the background as posters and one of the posters I noticed was the perfect blue one
00:07:24
Speaker
Really? Yeah, I was really surprised that Perfect Blue was directed by the same guy who did this film, like both completely. By the way, Adam, if you're going into Perfect Blue thinking it's anything like this. Am I going to get sideswiped again? Yeah, well, let me put it this way. It's like seeing the new version of Dune probably versus seeing David Lynch's version of Dune. You're not selling me on this, David.
00:07:51
Speaker
I wouldn't compare it in that exact way. I think it's a little bit different in that regard. But yeah, it's more of a thriller. It's much more psychological than this is. I think there is elements that you can see in Tokyo Godfathers that are similar to Perfect Blue. I think there's a lot in the likes of Paranoia Agent that are very similar to Tokyo Godfathers. Another wonderful one. That's very bizarre, that one. But yeah, so I don't want to get too much into it just yet, but I think it's a really interesting movie.
00:08:20
Speaker
excited to hear what you guys think about it. And yeah, I think that's a perfect moment just to jump right into it. But before we do, you know, we have some final festive messages for the year, so we will be right back in just a second.
00:08:34
Speaker
Welcome to Chatsunami, a variety podcast that talks about topics, from gaming and films to streaming in general interest. Previously on Chatsunami, we discussed Game of the Decade, Deadly Premonition, the romantic thriller, Birdemic, and listen to us get all sappy as we discuss our top five Christmas films. If that sounds like your cup of tea, then you can find us an anchor, Spotify, YouTube, and all good podcast apps. As always, stay safe, stay awesome, and most importantly, stay hydrated.
00:09:05
Speaker
We are Beer and Chill Podcast. Podcast where we review TV shows, games, movies, and whatever else takes our fancy. So what are you waiting for? If you're a cool kid like us, you're gonna listen to the Beer and Chill Podcast. You can get it anywhere from Spotify all the way to your grandmother's radio.
Themes of Religion and Miracles
00:09:26
Speaker
My name is Jan. And I'm Creaky C. And we are Beer and Chill.
00:09:40
Speaker
So yeah, let's jump into Tokyo Godfathers. We might as well just start at the beginning. This is something Green Shield that you brought up in particular about the, really just the themes of this film. And I have to admit the themes are layered on thick in this film, aren't they?
00:09:55
Speaker
Yeah, they're pretty heavy-handed. I mean, the film starts off in a church and the themes of religion and miracle and the fact that it's centred around Christmas, so there's kind of a religious, spiritual kind of time anyway that they would sort of be bringing through God. There is a kind of, not huge, but there is an existing Christian demographic in Japan, which has existed off and on.
00:10:17
Speaker
for about 300 years off for many other reasons. But yeah, there's very strong Christian religious signs in this and messages. I don't think that Satoshi Kon himself is a practicing Christian, but I think that it's very interesting that he focused this film on that.
00:10:33
Speaker
It is quite an interesting opening though because I think you described it really well when you said it was heavy-handed with the religious imagery at the very beginning because does it not focus on a fake baby, mind you, but the literal baby Jesus at the beginning?
00:10:51
Speaker
Yeah, which of course, the film centers around them finding a baby and looking after a baby, then it does feel rather on the nose, so to speak, but they're in a church. I think it's like a procession of a reverend talking to a group of homeless people. I think it must be like a food shelter or drive or can't remember the word I'm looking for there, but the just basically like a soup drive that they can come and get some food and hear about God.
00:11:12
Speaker
What I found quite interesting, especially at the beginning, was our three main protagonists' reaction to the religious service. You have Jin, who's clearly just there for the food. He's there to be fed. He doesn't seem to care at all about any of the other stuff around that. You then have Hannah, who is obviously there to
00:11:31
Speaker
be fed as well but it's clearly quite like enraptured by you know the kind of the kind of purity and the kind of message around the kind of nativity story and then you have Miyuki who doesn't show up at all because as we find out for later reasons her kind of like not abhorrence is too strong a word but her like distaste and dislike for like religion um so i thought it was quite interesting just getting to know our three characters a bit more and kind of seeing a bit more of like their own kind of beliefs
00:11:55
Speaker
Yeah, it does characterise them very well. It does show, as you said, what type of people were going to be spending the rest of
Portrayal of Homelessness and Tokyo
00:12:04
Speaker
the film with. It is definitely, like, one of the themes that runs along this film is, like, this kind of theme of desperation as well, because, you know, of course, they're in a church and in a place of shelter, and then it's almost quite cruel at the end that they are just kind of being cast out, albeit they've got a tent, but, you know, it's like,
00:12:24
Speaker
it's quite rough going at the beginning isn't it? Definitely I mean I think this what this film is very good at doing is like not really sugarcoating you know the existence of homeless people but I think it is quite like a realistic portrayal of what that lifestyle is like and rightfully so like I don't think it would be
00:12:41
Speaker
right to kind of you know like schmaltz it up and should it go to and not portray it any other way other than how it is. I have to admit one of the interesting things like see coming from a perspective and you'll be the same Green Shield but coming from a perspective of watching like all these anime films set in Tokyo and unless you know it's like right off the bat it's like you know a dystopian future film or Tokyo's in ruin or whatever Tokyo is usually portrayed in a very positive kind of romanticized light
00:13:10
Speaker
Yeah, it certainly is romanticized. It's idyllic. And so we're seeing a much more gritty side of Tokyo. We're seeing the mean streets. We're seeing the back alleys. So much of this movie is taking place on these kinds of streets. You don't really get to see the downtown Tokyo main street where people are walking. Very seldom. I think of one scene that I can actually think of where that's the case.
00:13:29
Speaker
is why we're introduced to Miyuki and she spits down onto people that are walking out on that street and I think that's the only time we get to see like a normal pedestrian street like in the downtown Tokyo core. We're seeing that's what they are seeing as being like upscale Tokyo and they're spitting on it and they're saying like we are in different worlds kind of thing. She's high up in the sky and they're there. One of the strengths of this film is definitely the framing and
00:13:56
Speaker
I mean, is it right to use the word cinematography for an anime? Yes, I think it is. Because there's one particular scene really flashing forward here where it's a scene where one of the characters gets horribly beat up and they're in like this alleyway. And I thought this was really well done where it's like he's lying there.
00:14:14
Speaker
like all around him because it's an alleyway, it's like dark, it's dingy, he's surrounded by rubbish and everything and he sees like this glimmer of light in the distance where it is the main streets of Tokyo. It is kind of like the reverse of what you would usually see, you know you would usually see the bright bustling cityscape and you would see like everyone going about their day but there's this kind of like almost this isolated layer that you don't
00:14:41
Speaker
usually get to see and all of the colours are quite cold and muted. There's a lot of blues in this film, both emotionally and artistically. You were bringing something up as well just before recording Green Shield about like the imagery of this film as well. I mean beyond the beginning, you know with like the snowfall and things like that,
00:15:02
Speaker
Yeah, there's just a lot to do with, as we've already said, the snowfall, the sort of beautiful snowfall falling onto this gritty side of Tokyo so that there's almost sort of hides and masks, the more gritty side and sort of hiding darker side of Tokyo through this beautiful snow.
00:15:21
Speaker
I'm afraid I don't know, I can't say enough to say what the actual metaphor might be there with regards to our main characters, but I can tell that that is something that Satoshi Kon is trying to portray. It's going over my head a little bit, but I think I can understand the general
Character Introductions and Development
00:15:37
Speaker
message of it. And speaking of like, you touched on the characters there, should we talk about our three main protagonists? Yeah, I think so.
00:15:43
Speaker
I have to admit I'm coming from this like as someone who although I thought like there was a lot of it I thought was really done well but I don't know if for me personally there's a couple of elements that were over-hyped and it just didn't kind of resonate with me especially for the main characters. I'm gonna let you guys lead with this first and then give my own opinion but yeah Green Shield I'll let you start first but like what did you think of like our three main characters?
00:16:12
Speaker
They were very interesting. I think the initial impression that I got of them was very different from how I saw them both in the middle of the movie and the end of the movie, which is kind of what you'd expect from any kind of film really, where you'd hope that you're kind of seeing a progression in the characters. I was immediately turned off by Miyuki spitting down on people, but her character grew on me. She was probably the most understated character
00:16:36
Speaker
of the three. She got very little screen time and very little dialogue. I didn't see as much of an arc with her. With regards to Jin, I saw he obviously uses this drunk who talks about, we find out later on the, or he says later on that his wife and daughter died and he's sort of mourning over that and we feel a pity for him over that.
00:16:57
Speaker
And then later on, that is ruined by learning that actually, no, his daughter and wife aren't dead. He's just a piece of shit. And see, we're learning about the baby's parents and he's seeing similarities in his own life. And with that, he is like the father of this baby who is like a deadbeat kind of thing. And he wants to try and be not that. And he's trying to redeem himself by being a father figure to Mayuki. At one point, Mayuki meets these other
00:17:27
Speaker
homeless people and they refer to her as jinn's princess and if they did anything to her then like he would kill them kind of thing so i think that jinn's character is certainly very interesting i i quite liked his story i didn't necessarily like him at all times but i think his story was very very interesting i was really pro that
00:17:45
Speaker
And then Hannah or Hanel, sometimes it was spelled with an L at the end in the movie, so I wasn't quite sure what the actual name was. She, as I believe that her pronouns are she, seems to want this life as like a suburban housewife, which obviously don't match with
00:18:03
Speaker
her appearance. She seems a drag queen, but I think she's more than a drag queen. I think she actively feels that she is a woman and that she wants to have a baby. She sees that this baby arriving into their lives is a sign that she finally gets to be a mother, which she's always wanted, but never been able to because of her biologically assigned
00:18:20
Speaker
gender. And so we see kind of a real struggle from her. And then we get to learn a little bit more about her life and her illness. They talk about AIDS amongst the gay community in Japan, which I've never seen an anime or even an animated movie of any kind talk about AIDS. So I thought that was my eyes went really wide when that that was brought up. And so discussion over her partner that she had that died and the job that she had and lost because she she had these anger issues.
00:18:48
Speaker
and she's just incredibly over the top and dramatic, which can sometimes be a bit of a turn off from the character, but is also just wonderful to watch. I thought she was an absolutely fantastic character and I think Hannah was my favourite character of all. The matter what you think, they are so expressive, especially with the animation style as well, which is fantastically done, really kind of
00:19:09
Speaker
It's definitely different and I know I shouldn't be comparing it to these other work like you know Perfect Blue and things like that where it's a lot more kind of down to earth and realistic whereas this is a lot more... it's quite cartoony. Yeah it's certainly more exaggerated I would say. There are certain cartoony elements to it, the face is often a bit more exaggerated, the appearances are often contort so there's a certain element to that. And what did you think Adam?
00:19:37
Speaker
I honestly found the three main characters to be both really engaging and really endearing. I really loved all three of our main protagonists. I thought it was so well done how their backstories unfolded throughout the course of the film. And as you've both kind of mentioned, they kind of do start off as quite stock characters, quite one dimensional, but they developed from that so well that I was just so impressed of how that was done.
00:19:59
Speaker
And what I really loved as well is I loved the relationships the three of them had with each other and I loved how they kind of formed this like alternate version of this classic family in the way that I would say like Jin the husband and Tana the wife and then Miyuki like the teenage daughter and I thought that was just such an interesting like parallel it drew there and everything I just thought it was a really really well done and I just thought they like they just interacted so well together and I really believed
00:20:23
Speaker
in these characters and I really believe that you know like for as much like you know crazy stuff as they get up to in this film I really did believe that these could be genuine people and I would just want to echo especially what you were saying Green Shields about Hannah I mean this was 2003 I don't I don't know at all what the kind of like let's say the state of anime was in 2003 I'm going to guess that Hannah was quite a progressive character for that time just because I don't know I don't know enough to say about like trans characters in anime
00:20:51
Speaker
but it seems like just judging by what I remember from 2003 and like other kind of media mainstream media I don't recall seeing a lot of those characters so I thought that was very like impressive to have a character a trans character like a high-profile trans character like that a really sympathetic one in a leading role in 2003 and yeah I think I think she is the standout of the film and the one that like really
00:21:10
Speaker
like you know a really hard story it hugs at the heartstrings and everything maybe the most out of all of them but like i i just loved how they they went from these one-dimensional characters into these like really fully fleshed out and developed and really like for as much like you know as many bad things as they perhaps do in the film and before the events of the film i just found them very sympathetic characters and i could i could completely understand where they were coming from and
00:21:31
Speaker
of the choices they'd made as much as you don't maybe condone some of the choices you're like decisions I could totally see why they had done what they'd done I honestly was just I was just blown away like I just was so like engaged with them and I just yeah I absolutely loved them. I would agree with that but like honestly I do agree with both of your points and this isn't me like getting comfy on my face of
00:21:51
Speaker
discussion here, but I did find some issues with the characters. As you brought up, this was made in 2003, which I actually didn't realise it was that far back.
00:22:03
Speaker
So a character like Hannah, she's obviously someone who is not going to be a typical character, but I felt as if there were a lot of scenes where she was really either the butt of the joke or just at the receiving end of a lot of
00:22:22
Speaker
you know like I don't know if this was the same for your version Green Shield but I remember like looking at the subtitles for this and I don't know if it's like a true translation of what they were saying to one another but there's some really like not very nice stuff being thrown at her and I get it it's 2003 and you know like and I'm not saying obviously it's acceptable to use that kind of stuff but it felt as if like I mean like especially with the you know like as you said with the AIDS conversation that they have
00:22:51
Speaker
And I have to admit, I was like, oh god, they're actually going into this. And then like immediately after that, it's kind of thrown away for a, oh no, he just slipped in a bar of soap. And it was like, oh, OK. I get that's kind of the theme they were going with. Or not theme, but like the dark comedy. Yeah.
00:23:08
Speaker
Just to jump in there, it is possible that Hannah was lying or joking when she said the by the bar soap because there's a lot of scenes where she is coughing blood and is very sick. And so I think that she does have AIDS. I don't know that for sure. And it was it's never fully explained what her illness is. Yeah, that's true. But
00:23:30
Speaker
From what I understand of HIV and AIDS, the kind of symptoms she has, collapsing, coughing blood, that kind of stuff, it is certain symptoms that come with having AIDS and it would explain potentially why she might be homeless, that she might have been cast out because of that.
00:23:47
Speaker
I, it doesn't go in there. This is, this is me sort of maybe stepping too far to present that, but I, I think that there is a possibility that they, that that was an intentional kind of like shift to be like, Oh no, he slept, he slept in a bar of soap kind of thing. Or, or maybe as you, you take the, yeah, it's just a sort of a silly kind of offhanded joke to like lighten the mood. Cause the, the conversation in the bar when Hannah is talking to her, who she calls her mother, but it's, it's, it's another drag queen bartender.
00:24:14
Speaker
It's very serious when they're talking about it. Like the mood, you can definitely tell in the mood of the conversation. I think she might be lying in that situation. I think that there are certain elements where they get all a bit jokey. And there was a scene very early on where Jin refers to Hannah as a homeless homo, which I kind of gritted my teeth at. And I don't know if that's what you were referencing that I was like, ooh, that's a bit yikes. But I was watching this with my partner and she took that as being like, it's almost a slur, but
00:24:41
Speaker
it's almost like between friends kind of thing that he is very aware of her and they kind of have back and forths about that kind of thing. So I don't think it was meant in any kind of venom. It's not an okay thing to say, but it's of course dependent between the recipient and person giving it. So I think there's certain arguments and I do as going back to what Adam said, this came across as being incredibly progressive, like
00:25:02
Speaker
Just to go back again, Adam, you were asking what the state of anime was like with regards to transgender characters. They existed, and drag queens and transgender characters existed in anime that I had seen. They were never portrayed like this, though. They were always predatory and dealt with very poorly from what I had seen. There may be other examples of much better represented, but
00:25:24
Speaker
Generally, if there is a character that is either drag queen or transgender, they are very poorly represented and often given kind of a predatory element where they like chase boys down kind of thing and the boys like running away scared kind of thing. That's not the case here. Hannah is much more human. She's much more down to earth. She's much more realistic. And the way Satoshi Konin dealt with it is I think far greater than what I've seen in even most live action adaptations of the trans community.
00:25:48
Speaker
It's a homeless story as well that I don't think gets recognition or people would even so much think about. Because certainly for Jin and Miyuki, they seem like much more classic homeless characters. If you know what I mean, it is like the kind of middle-aged man who's down on his luck and made a lot of bad decisions that led him to this point. And then it's the teenage runaway. They seem like much more familiar homeless characters, but Hannah seems like something so different that I don't think people would necessarily associate that character with.
00:26:17
Speaker
like, you know, being homeless. So I think that's also what I really liked is like giving you a whole different insight into this world, you know, and showing you the kind of diversity of people in this community. That is very interesting. You say that because I don't know from the Japanese perspective, I know in America, Canada,
00:26:34
Speaker
And I think in the UK, there is a huge amount of LGBTQ people who are left homeless and are make up a huge amount of the homeless population in the Western world because of being outcast.
00:26:49
Speaker
by their family or not having enough money to pay for whatever reason because of their, they have to keep up with maybe their medication that they require for their to essentially to maintain their gender biologically. They need to pay a lot of money and they can often go bankrupt in that process and often end up homeless. So I think it's quite realistic that we are seeing a trans person who is homeless because that is something that is hugely common and is not widely represented in media.
00:27:15
Speaker
See before we move on and again fantastic points by the way. One thing I want to ask you both and I just want to make sure I've got this correct because the only other issue I have with the characters or sorry one particular character Miyuki who again was it you Green Shield that was saying that she's probably not
00:27:33
Speaker
like the least interesting compared to the other two. I think so. I'm not throwing her under the bus and saying she's a terrible character. I think she is still an interesting character. I like her story arc. I like her as a character. But I think compared to Jin's storyline and especially Hannah's storyline, I was the least interested in Mayuki's story. The only reason I bring that back up is, am I correct in saying that the reason she is homeless is because she stabbed her dad because of a lost cat? I think he gave up her cat.
00:28:02
Speaker
I think it goes to a larger issue. And this is one problem. I have the film. I don't think this is explored enough. But I think the issue is that he's a very overbearing and controlling character. And I think it's that as much as perhaps the Flashpoint is the loss of her cat, I think it's more like the tension that's built up from his overbearing nature and control of her life that this Flashpoint moment has led to her making this rash decision.
00:28:26
Speaker
And again, I wish that was something that was maybe a bit more like if we'd had a couple more flashback scenes, perhaps like flesh that out a bit. I think it would have made that make that a bit more obvious. I think would have brought a bit more to our character. But that's certainly why I took from it. There was a point early on in the movie where Jin is like fighting Mayuki, like play play fighting. And Mayuki said, even my father didn't hit me.
00:28:47
Speaker
And so I think that that was quite a telling line as to like, before we really knew much about Mayuki, we learned that from that one line that her father is abusive, but maybe not physically abusive, that he he's doing something else to her that has. And just from that line, we were like, that is why she is homeless. We realize you can kind of piece together that she is homeless because of something that has happened in her family life that her father has been abusive to her in some way. He
00:29:15
Speaker
He appears every now and again in the movie, and he seems perfectly normal and perfectly nice, but we aren't really getting a decent idea of what it is that drove her out of the house. And I agree, I think that should have been fleshed out a bit better. I think there should have been something that informed us as to why she was driven to that point. Because yes, the cat was likely the straw that broke the camel's back, but I think there was something else that pushed her to that point.
00:29:38
Speaker
I do agree, I think that's definitely one of the things that this film kind of, I don't want to say struggles with because it kind of excels in a lot but especially with Miyuki's character where even in her flashback like we get scenes that are completely dedicated to
00:29:56
Speaker
you know Hannah's character and Ginn's character, you know we get like whole you know conversations and arcs to flesh that out but when it comes to Miyuki's character like even her flashbacks interrupted by those other two characters if you remember you know she's like standing with a knife and it's a very tense like
00:30:16
Speaker
scene and you think oh my god why is this happening and you know she's going on about her cat and I don't want to be reductive and be like oh it's all about a cat but you know that's almost how it comes across because and obviously there's the lines in between of you know you can read deeper as to why because you think no rational person would go to that kind of extreme but then it's kind of cut short by inserting Hannah and Jen again into this and it's
00:30:43
Speaker
I don't know, I feel as if they could have done that better.
Film's Emotional Impact and Themes of Love
00:30:46
Speaker
They could have maybe lashed it out a bit more, as you said. I think the thing with Miyuki as well is maybe why she appears as the least interesting of the three is that she's quite like, for a lot of the films, she's quite an emotionally dead character, but that is portrayed as a survival mechanism in a way to survive
00:31:04
Speaker
what's happened and you know like her choices and turned like new life now living on the streets and everything she's kind of had to like emotionally deaden herself and like quote unquote mature in this sort of way to like be able to cope and so I think that's but I think that's kind of like why maybe she appears is the least interesting especially when you pair her with like Hannah who's a very very big character and then Jin as well who like as much as he's emotionally dead as well he is like quite like an emotional character and you know we do get a lot of like his backstory
00:31:33
Speaker
I mean, as you said before, it is definitely the family dynamic, isn't it? You've got the mother figure, the father figure, the teenager, and the baby of course, which is the central focus of the film. But speaking of the baby, I've actually got a question for both of you. How did you feel the first time you saw the quote-unquote twist for the ending, like the finale of this film?
00:31:56
Speaker
I found it to be honest. It's really shocking. I didn't see it coming. I have to admit, maybe I should have been like on the lookout for something like this, but I don't know. I found it really like a gut punch. To be honest, I found the whole ending like really, really tense and like honestly on the edge of my seat, heart in my mouth and everything.
00:32:16
Speaker
I honestly thought that they were going to pull a really depressing ending out. I was not prepared for that at all, but that's not the way we went down. But yeah, I found that ending to be a real shock. Not in a good way. Obviously it's a horrible thing that all this character has done, but it really drew me in even more and really felt the tension of the ending. No, I would totally agree with that. I did not expect it either. I felt there was something a bit off. Not so much like I was really annoyed when I saw Hannah slapping.
00:32:45
Speaker
him, the mother. That slap, I made a note about how wonderful that slap was. It was just the biggest slap you ever did see. Oh yeah, it was like the biggest slap of Tokyo 2003. Just that echo.
00:33:00
Speaker
Yeah, I was honestly quite peeved at that. I was like, come on, this is a desperate woman, you know, she was about to throw herself off her bridge, blah blah blah. And then it cuts back to Gin's story and he's talking to the woman's husband and they're saying, oh yeah, by the way, my wife stole a baby. And you're like, oh, oh, okay, oh no.
00:33:20
Speaker
Yeah, it's a real like, thank goodness moment that thank God Jin went to see the trash bag dirtbag husband to find out that that was the case and that he like, like steals a bike and like helps down to find the mother. I initially I hadn't picked up what was going on. I must have missed that dialogue. I thought he just thought that the mother was trying to kill herself. And so and so he had to go save her.
00:33:42
Speaker
I then learned that, no, he was trying to like get the baby back because he knew that the baby was stolen by this woman who we learned had a stillbirth and so to replace the stillborn baby she stole a healthier looking baby. I think it gets to like another one of the central themes of this film which is like an exploration of love and like we see love in all its forms. Some of them are good and some of them are bad, you know, in this case with this woman. I'm sorry, is it a sec?
00:34:09
Speaker
her name, sorry, her name's escaping, I won't butcher it. But her love for her stillborn baby expresses itself in this horrific act of a desperate woman. But on the other hand, we have the kind of unconventional love between Jin, Hannah, and Miyuki as the alternative family unit. So yeah, just that kind of exploration of love felt like a really central theme of this film, just seeing all these different forms.
Comedy vs. Drama Balance
00:34:34
Speaker
One thing I'm going to bring up, and apologies for acting like the devil's advocate for this episode. Usually it's somebody else, but no, it's going to be me that same. Don't lie, you're always the devil's advocate. I know, I'm trying to absolve myself. One of the things I'm going to bring up that I think this film maybe has another slight issue with, and again, when I'm bringing up these issues, I just want to reiterate and point out, I'm not saying, oh, this is a terrible film because of it, because as with
00:35:03
Speaker
obviously like disgust. It does explore a lot of these themes really well but I feel as if the tonal pacing of this film can sometimes be all over the place. Like you'll have a scene that's quite serious, like for example when Ginn gets beat up in like a very you know horrific scene of just these privileged teenagers who you know they just don't care, they're just saying oh we're cleaning up the streets and they beat the hell out
00:35:29
Speaker
of him and then followed by like a scene where Hannah's like distraught about it and then it's like oh no it's just another dead man you know throws the sheet back over him and you're like oh god and you know like I get like it's you know again it's a dark comedy at times but you know it's like I'm not saying that it's consistently through the film there just are some moments where it is like a kind of like you're watching it and you go holy shit that was dark
00:35:54
Speaker
and then it's followed up by a joke and you're kind of like oh no I don't know sometimes that undercuts like what do you guys think? I actually think that in my opinion the film perfectly walks the line between on the one hand being harrowing and on the other hand being actually quite funny and heartwarming and like I completely see what you're saying on the surface I think this really like really like hard juxtaposition between like you know these comedic
00:36:18
Speaker
these comedic and kind of like saccharine moments and these like really like brutal and harrowing like scenes on the other hand but I don't know for me I just found it walk this line absolutely perfectly you know and I never I didn't find as much as the two things seem to be like at odds with each other like I don't know they just it just worked for me I just thought it was a perfect blend and that like it just balanced these two elements perfectly in this way of being like a kind of like a true authentic you know story of this kind of gritty and like
00:36:45
Speaker
horrific existence for these for these three characters but also being this tale of like kind of redemption and hope and this heartwarming story you know about about three human characters so i i can only speak for me perfect because i completely see what you're saying about like the tonal mismatching but i for me it worked i have to say i agree more so with that than i do with satsu
00:37:05
Speaker
Quite funny, this should be brought up because when I was doing some sort of research for the movie and I sort of looked at the Rotten Tomatoes to get an understanding of what the critical reception was, there was one review that really stood out to me that I think perfectly summarized my view of it and it's really short and it said, this film is a slapstick with heart. There's a huge element of slapstick comedy throughout this movie, but really kind of feeding through is just this heart
00:37:29
Speaker
to the movie that there's a real kind of emotion that there's a real kind of sympathy for these characters I think like as Adam has said it walks the line between the world of wackiness and seriousness very well I think that they are able to make scenes that would otherwise be like concerning a little bit more uplifting a little bit more like they reduce that kind of
00:37:49
Speaker
concern. You don't always have to let it sit in darkness that you can bring a bit of levity, a bit more lightness to the situation like the scene where the old man that Jin was with was beaten at the same time Jin was and he died. He was on like a gurney and Hannah and Miyuki were concerned that it was Jin and they like rushed over but like it was almost played for laughs since this person who had just died. And I like you understand that there's
00:38:15
Speaker
It was emotional before, but you're able to sort of separate yourself from that and be like, no, I understand the comedic element of this situation. One of the great comedy bits of the movie is Hannah and the taxi driver. This whole kind of recurring bit where Hannah continuously finds the same taxi driver to take her around.
00:38:34
Speaker
And she started, at one point they're chasing, towards the end of the movie, they're chasing the mother who's still on this baby. And she stops the car and it just so happens to be that taxi driver. And just the look on the taxi driver's face of, oh God, not her again, is just so wonderful. And I burst out laughing when I was watching it the other night. So I think there's a real art to how they managed to tow that line and they worked the series with the slapstick.
00:38:59
Speaker
So I applaud it. I understand why you might feel that way, Satsu, but I respectfully disagree. Where's the button to stop
Rewatch Value and Comparisons
00:39:07
Speaker
the episode? No, I totally get you guys as well. I was saying this to Adam as well before we came on, but I feel as if, personally, there was a lot in this film that, although I did like it and I do think it does something really well, there was other bits I was kind of like,
00:39:24
Speaker
I don't know. And this is kind of sound really weird but the remedy, I suppose, that's probably the wrong word but you know what I mean. I thought that this definitely is one of those films that maybe would benefit, like see if you don't like it the first time, it would definitely benefit from a re-watch. And this isn't something I usually say about films, like if a film's bad, you know, you'll say
00:39:48
Speaker
oh no or you don't like it you know you'll say oh no I'm never watching that again. With Tokyo Godfathers it seems as if there is like a lot more underneath because obviously in your first view and you're concentrating on the kind of the plot unfolding and your initial reactions and
00:40:04
Speaker
I mean, personally for me, I am one of those people that, unless a film like blows me away, you know, the first time I see it, it sits with me a lot and I'm kind of like, eh, it's like, it's a film, you know, thinking is it as great as everyone's saying. On first viewing, although it did some amazing things, I don't know if it's just because of the hype I'm kind of like,
00:40:23
Speaker
did it live to the hype and it's me kind of trying to compare it to other people's views but I do think this definitely would benefit for people who haven't enjoyed it in the first viewing. It is one of those songs that maybe would benefit going back and rewatching it. I wouldn't say right away because I was saying that to you Adam, like not right away.
00:40:41
Speaker
next Christmas yeah exactly put it on the list next muppets christmas carriage and go all the way and it's a wonderful life you know and all the classics die hard as well yeah put it on the rotation you know see on a slight tangent before we finish up have you started watching christmas films
00:40:59
Speaker
We watched The Grinch the other day, but no, we keep delaying it. We're going to go see the new Spider-Man movies, so we've been watching Spider-Man movies. Where's Red in fairness? I mean, just like Santa, you know? Web swinging into your chimney, you know? With your friendly neighborhood Santa. I'm sure that's like a European tradition, Spider Santa or something. If you've been naughty, he just climbs down your chimney.
00:41:20
Speaker
Can I raise a final, potentially controversial point, especially for you, Satsui? Just to end? Yeah, yeah, no, go for it. I don't know how you feel about this, but I kind of think Tokyo Godfather is very similar to another Christmas favourite, which I know you hold very dear, Satsui. I don't know if you like it or if you've seen it, it's all green shields, but I think
00:41:38
Speaker
to Godfather is a lot like it's a wonderful life in the way that both these films feel like they're designed for us kind of cynical adults who have like lost our kind of belief in the magic of life you know like we've been around the block now and we've lost that innocence and kind of magic that you have as a child we're kind of just like oh the world is the way it is now you know and we get quite cynical and
00:41:59
Speaker
These kind of, both these films feel like kind of like messages to be like, but you know, look for the magic that you can find every day, you know, however, however small it is. So I kind of saw a parallel there. I don't know whether that is controversial, whether you two will agree or not, but that's kind of how I felt having just watched Tokyo God for others.
00:42:14
Speaker
And just thinking, the funny you should mention that because I was thinking back to a scene at the very beginning of the film right after the service where they're all looking through the garbage and again saying like, oh I can't find these books I was gonna give you for Christmas and everything and Miyuki is like, oh why are you bothering with you know these books and getting quite frustrated and angry. Again that's kind of like a good nod to his character being like a, or trying to be like a parental figure.
00:42:42
Speaker
And on the one hand, he's looking at that side of trying to preserve this, even if it, albeit if it's even small, he's still trying to pass on this tradition of even though it's Christmas, like no matter how big or small the gift, you know, you're still getting the gift. And whereas Hannah, she kind of fills that role of, you know, in the religious aspect of like following along with the Nativity story at the beginning and then
00:43:06
Speaker
drawing parallels with the baby who, you know, she calls constantly throughout the film and medical because everything that happens seems to like, there seems to be like a bubble around them whenever they have the baby. So there's some divine intervention or the most serious case of plot armour you ever did see.
00:43:25
Speaker
This baby. The baby's protected by gusts of wind and they're in a graveyard at one point and the baby's very hungry and needs changing and they managed to stumble across a child's grave where someone had left baby supplies on the child's grave. Yeah.
00:43:41
Speaker
I found that a bit grim. I'm going to be honest. Oh, it's incredibly grim, but they were like, well, this is the score. We managed to get baby supplies from the situation. So it was quite amusing in that way. It was very dark humour. But no, you raise a good point, though, Adam. I know. I'm biased. That's a wonderful life because you know better than anyone how much I... Well, reveres the wrong word. Well, rapping reveres the perfect word for anything.
Subplots and Realism in Anime
00:44:08
Speaker
I've got my James Stewart shrine up for the, you know, just nestled in the corner. He's got a lasso around him in, you know.
00:44:17
Speaker
Yeah, no, it's a good point though, Adam. It's a really good point. Going, as you said, speaking of final points, Green Shield, is there any final points you would like to bring up about this for once? It's funny you should say that. I don't have any necessary final arguments to be made. There were certainly very interesting scenes, scenes that I felt weren't very well explored or explained.
00:44:40
Speaker
the whole Latino side plot with the assassin. I wasn't really clear on what was happening there, maybe I just missed an explanation, but there was a scene where someone of a different skin colour attempts to assassinate a character that had helped them that we think is presumably a mob boss.
00:44:57
Speaker
and they speak in what I later figured out was Spanish and so there are no subtitles appearing because the characters don't know what they're saying. I don't think their motives were ever fully explained. Maybe they were and I missed it. Did you guys see why they were doing that?
00:45:13
Speaker
It felt like a reason to artificially separate Miyuki from Jin and Hannah, if I'm being honest, and also let the baby have some milk. I felt like the Latin thing, I kind of forgot about it. I was only after I finished the film and I was like, oh yeah.
00:45:28
Speaker
that was a whole bit near the beginning it was a bit confusing i i wonder if it's also just trying to highlight a minority group in japan and sort of the conditions that they live in that's fair to sort of look at a different side of the gritty world of tokyo that we're at like you can see like a needle on the ground so it's like a drug drug den that the um miyuki has been taken to but then we're
00:45:49
Speaker
We're introduced to this very lovely Spanish speaking woman who I initially assumed that these people were Filipino because Philippines is a largely Spanish speaking community that is near-ish to Japan. But the description said Latino and I don't know the Filipino people would be described as Latino. I don't think that is accurate because they're not in Latin America.
00:46:10
Speaker
I wonder if it's like an anglicized display for like a Western description. It's possible. Perhaps saying Latin American is like more like Western people would know that more than perhaps if you said Filipino. That's just a guess. It's possible. I feel like there's such a strong Filipino population even in America that you would say Filipino. There may be a larger Latin American population in Japan than I realized, but it seems unlikely. So I'm
00:46:35
Speaker
happy to be corrected if someone knows better but I'd assumed Filipino but it seems to be Latin American. That plot was a little bit random. As I say it may just be to try and highlight a foreign community that lives in Japan and some of the conditions they're exposed to but the whole language barrier is something you don't see very often in anime movies. You don't often get to see a character who's not from Japan speaking a language that's not Japanese and seeing the character try and like understand each other. Quite often you'll watch an anime and
00:47:02
Speaker
these like NBA basketball players were like, Oh, of course I speak Japanese. Japan is the greatest country. I'm of course I learned Japanese. And so like, everyone speaks Japanese. Even we watched Death Note and like the Americans come over and of course the Americans speak Japanese bunch of weeps. Yeah. And watch a lot of Dragon Ball and Yu Yu Hakusho when they in their in their Academy days. Yeah, so like that there's an element again of realism there where we're presented with a foreign group who don't speak Japanese. And and so there's a communication, there's a language barrier there. And that's, that's interesting.
00:47:31
Speaker
But yeah, other than maybe that, which again, even that we've kind of summed up isn't there maybe being a reason and a positive behind it. I think this is a wonderful movie. We joked about putting it into the Christmas rotation. I would genuinely be keen to add it to my Christmas rotation. I think it's quite healthy to swap one in, one out kind of thing. And what you've seen one movie every year for the past 20 odd years, you then want to add something new to
Final Impressions and Closing Remarks
00:47:55
Speaker
the rotation. And I think I would be keen to watch this again, maybe next year.
00:47:58
Speaker
Would you say the same, Adam? Would you put it into the rotation? Oh, I absolutely loved this movie. I loved the characters. I loved the story. It made me laugh. It made me cry. I just adored this film. I can see this definitely being one that goes... I watched this with my fiancee and she was absolutely raptured with it as well. So I think this is one that will probably go into our Christmas rotation in the future. Full marks of this film. I just loved it.
00:48:21
Speaker
And I don't want to end this episode on a down, but I... Thank you for listening to Dr. Nami. I wouldn't say for me personally, it's there yet. I'm not... It honestly sounds as if it's like a sacred pedestal. It's like, you know, like the bouncer.
00:48:42
Speaker
It's a wonderful life. You know, come in. Muppets Christmas Carol, come in. Tokyo Godfathers. Nah, nah, nah. Try next year. Go on the maybe pile next to all the Christmas specials on TV. Nah. Jokes aside, I think that I would definitely have to watch this film again to appreciate it more. The first time I watched it, I didn't 100% get the hype. I think, as we've been saying for the last hour,
00:49:06
Speaker
It does a lot of things really well, and I think it's definitely worth being praised for that. But yeah, ask me again in a year. Yeah, maybe my answer will be different. Maybe it will be on the rotation the next time I watch it. Well, if you keep saying, oh, I'll try to get in a year and see, that means it's on your rotation. Ah, the old switcheroo.
00:49:28
Speaker
Well, no, no. I'm going to do no reversion on this, Green Shield. You know what I'm like watching films. I take forever. I will send you a Blu-ray of Tokyo Godfathers and just physically insert it into your Xbox. I just want to reiterate and repeat the story that I've probably brought up in past episodes, but Green Shield has
00:49:48
Speaker
told me about certain films, suggested certain films, and when I've said, oh no, I'll watch it, I'll watch it, actually went out one year for my birthday, got me the DVD of said film, and we watched it that night, didn't we? That of course being the Shawshank Redemption, just in case anybody's like curious. So yes, I have seen the Shawshank Redemption, I still haven't seen The Godfather, so it's on the list, okay? I've seen Tokyo Godfathers though,
00:50:12
Speaker
Ah, it's pretty much the same thing. You're halfway there. There's a mafia aspect to it. I mean, there's literally a yak as a plot in the middle. So yeah, close enough. And yeah, seeing that festive note, thank you both so much for watching and discussing this film. For me anyway, it's not a film that I expected, but even despite what I said there, I still enjoyed it for what it was. And yeah, on that note, thank you all so so much for listening to this episode. Stay safe, stay awesome, and most importantly, stay hydrated.