Transcript
Speaker: He should have come to Ikea with me, but in his defense, I was working down by Ikea and then just going after work. I see. I see. and I see. And, um, and then all the colors I wanted. That's very luxurious. Yeah. We have red curtain, red velvet curtains, but he says that none of these rooms are red rooms.
Speaker: And I'm like, well, that's stupid because we have these beautiful curtains that my cousin gave me. Um, it looks like a movie theater. Exactly. Yeah. Um, and so he like kept papooing all of these colors that I wanted to do.
Speaker: And he's just like, no, no, no, not that one. No, not that one. No, not that one. No, no, no, no, no. And then finally I'm like, I just, I can't, I'm going to hang up on you right now.
Speaker: And you're going to send me what you want because I have you on loudspeaker because you constantly tell me my earbuds don't work when we're on phone calls. So I can't be loudspeaker.
Speaker: I don't know if that's true or not because he's the only one that has an issue with it. Sure, sure, sure. um and And so I'm going to hang up because you're on loudspeaker and I feel like an asshole.
Speaker: And i cannot I cannot walk around Ikea. Usually these these couples have a huge argument in Ikea in person. So... Yeah. So it was on the phone and I was just like, that's surprising for, I'm surprised he has that many opinions about the curtains. honestly He has many opinions. He has too many opinions that I'm just like, I have this whole plan for the interior of the house and now it's just going shit.
Speaker: hi
Speaker: I'm sorry. It's fine. It's fine. I'm, I'm getting what I want when I want it. I'm picking my battles. The velvet curtains were $80. Is that a lot? i don't know how much curtains cost. I don't. They were nice.
Speaker: Our curtains are forever. yeah That's what going to say. They're like diamonds. I'm going to say curtains are forever. Curtains are forever. Case in point, the red ones, which would look lovely in this room.
Speaker: Anyways. um
Speaker: Not listening to women. Famously featured in today's film. That's okay. I feel like you can cut cut out a chunk of it and we can still keep something about it. Yeah, I'll around it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. ah Famously featured in today's film. That's right, guys. You guessed it. This is Go Get Your Girl. This is the podcast where Emma and Katie both work at a company where one guy comes in to work in the mailroom.
Speaker: And within the span of, what, a week? Three days? It's about a week, yeah. I think he's in advertising for a couple of days, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. Works his way up to be chairman of the board. And we're like, what's this guy's secret? And then we look a little closer and we see that his secret is that he's the fucking worst.
Speaker: Well, I mean, we see him and we think, what kind of female trap could I spring? That's that's a lie. Exactly. What kind of female trap could I spring? Exactly. all while preparing these beautiful songs for us to sing and then being told by the powers that be that, nope, we don't get to sing any of those. All the women's songs are cut.
Speaker: yeah Every single one. For real. With the exception of Secretary's Not a Toy. an exception ah With the exception of a Secretary's Not a Toy, there's no songs that that aren't his songs. Like, basically, they cut all the songs except for Finch's songs, which is, yeah I think, a choice for a musical. Like, it happens a lot. A lot of times, musical movie musicals will cut ensemble numbers. Like, the unforgivable sin of Sweeney Todd cutting the ballad of Sweeney Todd, which is crazy. Absolutely insane.
Speaker: absolutely insane that that is one of the worst crimes in musical theater history yeah but there are like there's i mean but secretary's not a toy is a big ensemble dance number so it's not that they wanted make it seem less like a musical also it's 1967 so yeah um it's interesting and it's not like michelle lee couldn't sing so no they gave her instead of they cut um well that's another unforgivable we'll get to that later yeah Yeah.
Speaker: that I mean, they cut all of my favorite songs They didn't cut my favorite songs, but they cut several great songs, and they yeah they they bungled one of them badly, i think. Yes.
Speaker: I agree. I agree. um But yeah, and so... That's right, guys. This is Go Get Your Girl. I'm Emma. And I'm Katie. And today we are talking about... um i need to bring it up my notes because I'm stuck in... Charlie's still texting me.
Speaker: nineteen sixty seven How to How to...
Speaker: Not any of the lyrics could you get out, huh? How to survive da-da-da-da-da-da. um written and directed for the screen by David Swift who wrote and directed some movies called Pollyanna and The Parent Trap.
Speaker: Oh! Yeah! Heard of them? um And choreographed by both starring what's her name? Hayley Mills. Yeah. Yeah, Hayley Mills. But Hayley Mills was not in this movie.
Speaker: Choreographed by Bob Fosse.
Speaker: Famously. And co-choreographed by Dale Moreta, who apparently like translated the dances to the screen. So there's a book from 1952 by Shepard Mead called How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying, which is like a satirical how-to book.
Speaker: Yes. Which is a genre, you know, shows up every couple decades or so. There's like a big hit one that's like a... Yeah. Like an idiot's guide to dating. Yeah, but more satirical than that, I think. Like more of like a, it's really like a humor book. um Yeah.
Speaker: It was... So there's two guys, Jack Weinstock, a urologist, and one of his patients, who became his co-writer, decided to write a play based on the book.
Speaker: One of his patients' name is Willie Gilbert. So Jack Weinstock and Willie Gilbert wrote a play, a straight play, adaptation of the book in the late 50s, and they were trying they were shopping it around. And Abe...
Speaker: Yes. A urologist and his patient. So he got a look at that dick and was like, I think we should write a play together. i think Exactly. Right. Famous penis doctor. Jack Weinstock. Famous penis doctor.
Speaker: So Abe Burroughs, who was a Broadway you know writer and director, um ah saw the play and was like, we should make this a musical. So the three of them together rewrote the book as a musical and got Frank Lesser from Guys and Dolls to write the music and lyrics. so yeah, in ah in a strange, like, three people wrote the book and one person wrote the music and lyrics, which is not usually how musicals go. No, it's usually the other way around.
Speaker: Frank Lesser also wrote Baby It's Cold Outside. Yeah! Oh, the rape zone. Now, for quarter... We've how you gone over this before on this podcast. Um... ah Oh, no. I got rid of the window. um Oh, no. Vamp.
Speaker: Vamp. Oh, um yes. And so how to succeed in business without really trying. So Frank Lesser wrote the musical and it premiered on Broadway with several of these cast members who revived it for the film.
Speaker: In 1961, the musical is ready for Broadway. Yep. Abe Burroughs saw a, um in early development, producer Cy Feuer attended a trade show.
Speaker: And a like we see on Mrs. Maisel, there were a lot of um musical um like performances at trade shows in the 60s. Yeah. um And they did ah they just a documentary that I don't remember what it's called. like called Oh, I remember that. it it's some Yeah, something about like the refrigerator the musical or something like that.
Speaker: Yeah. um so It's so good. Which was really big in the 60s. Trade shows had these big elaborate like dance and song and sing a dance song and dance numbers. And yeah he was very impressed by an elaborate dance number choreographed by someone named Hugh Lambert. And he came to Burroughs and was like, we got to get this guy to choreograph how to succeed. It's perfect. It's the right tone and everything.
Speaker: Now, during rehearsals, it became clear that Lambert's creative abilities were completely used up in that one elaborate dance number. This is from... Oh, This is from Abe Burroughs' autobiography, which is called Honest Abe.
Speaker: Oh, that is very honest. Bob Fosse was brought in to replace him and choreograph the whole musical um on Broadway. um But he was unwilling to hurt Lambert's career by having him fired. So Lambert's trade show dance number was recycled as the pirate dance.
Speaker: Oh! And Fosse took a musical staging credit on the show on Broadway. So he actually choreographed the show and he choreographed and that the dances were imported into the musical as well, but were you know overseen by this guy, um Dale Moreta. So Fosse doesn't get choreography credit in the and the show or the movie.
Speaker: But he did choreograph it. Oh, but it's so, and it's so in your face, Fosse. Like, especially in Secretary is Not a Toy. Very, very early Fosse, yeah. So fucking Fosse. Secretary is Not a Toy is like, what are they doing? Like, it's 1967. I guess that's not that early for Fosse, but man, it is. But still, like, them all, like, walking, like, When they shuffle in. Yeah. Yeah. When they shuffle in. And just all of the like random, just like soft shoe, just slow soft shoes. Yeah. Yep. The snaps. Oh my God. Secretary's not a I remember I had to watch that number a thousand and two times because we used, we didn't use that choreography obviously because why would a college try to do Bob Fosse? Right.
Speaker: But there was like elements it. Many colleges try. Many colleges try, but there were elements of it that our director really wanted to utilize in the, in our production. and um, and so I, I watched that scene so many fucking times.
Speaker: Now, I believe you've told it on this, on this podcast more than once. yeah I know in the camp episode, I did cut it out because it was related to something else if we wanted to cut out of that show. yeah So we didn't get that story. um but you But you have told, you did tell it before, you were in a production of this in college and like you played.
Speaker: I played Krumholtz. Oh, I thought you played Jonesy. You played Krumholtz. Okay. Not even Jonesy. I played Krumholtz, which she has a much bigger role in this movie than she does in the stage production. In the stage production, she has like three lines and like two or three lines and some songs. End of Krumholtz. And in this movie, she's in like every single scene that Smitty is in. And I was just like...
Speaker: What? Since when? Since when was she such a big character? Because I don't think I've seen the full film of How to Succeed. and like the movie, movie, movie. Cause I didn't want it to taint my, my portrayal.
Speaker: um from cru right Um, but yeah, rewatching it. Like i told Charlie, he was, I was just like, that's who I was. And he turns to me and goes, yeah, I see it. and I was like, come on, man. Well, in the movie, she's played by Carol Worthington, who is six to,
Speaker: And Robert Morris is 5'5". So i'm ah he must be on a full raised platform like around her in some of these shots because they're walking together. I don't know if she's in bare feet and he's wearing heels or if they have like a whole rig set up. So because it's not just an Apple box because they are like walking and talking and they look They do not look 5'5 and six two so Exactly. And it's got to be some like elf like force perspective stuff going on. she's She's very tall. I mean, all the women in this are taller than Robert Morris. Like there's that scene where the three of them, where Rosemary, Crumholz, and Smitty are all standing next to him. I'm wow, they are all taller than him.
Speaker: right it's just like i love this i love he's a little he's a little elfin man um yeah and this so this movie i think this movie on its face is pretty good compared to the musical it really upsets me in a lot of ways however robert morse is so good It's like you can't like there's no way they could cast anybody else in that music. in that in Exactly.
Speaker: Like not while he's still like able to do it. Like honestly he probably could have done it in the Yeah.
Speaker: this This wasn't a sort of D'Orevan Hansen situation. where no. no He's, well, i mean, because he was like 29 when it opened on Broadway. Yeah. And he's 35 when they shot this movie. So it's not that bad. Yeah.
Speaker: but It's not. my God. Because they talked about like Dick Van Dyke was going to do it, but decided he was too old. um Tony Curtis wanted to do it also way too old. um Yeah. Yeah. He's perfect.
Speaker: He doesn't have a face for the movies, as they say. No, he does not. But he is perfect. um Oh my God, his face. And he's doing the stage performance. And the thing about him, and a lot of the same actors are. So a bunch of the actors because a lot of them are from the original cast.
Speaker: Rudy Valli, Mr. Bigley, was from the original Broadway cast. Rosemary was a replacement from the original Broadway cast. Yes. Yeah. um I kind of like her better because the Rosemary in the original Broadway cast has this very high soprano. that yeah. It's really shrilly. Yeah.
Speaker: I wasn't going to use the word shrill, but you said it. I'm so happy to keep his dinner warm. Yeah, I wasn't going to use the word shrill, but it's understandable. Yeah.
Speaker: And so Michelle Lee was a replacement on Broadway, and she's great. Sammy Smith, who plays ah the company way guy. Yep. um And also the chairman of the board. It's the same the same actor, plays both parts. Yep.
Speaker: He played that role on Broadway. um And Jonesy ah played is the same actress from Broadway. Yeah, yeah. Because she's great. But for Smitty, they decided to hire this hottie for some reason. Yeah, hire this hottie. And like, here's the thing. Isn't it just me like she's so hot? like I don't understand. this She's so hot. She's got like um weird little pigtails and glasses. Yeah. she's smoking. I don't get it. Yeah.
Speaker: um I didn't watch this movie. Maybe I should have in college because was so- You didn't watch the movie at all? You didn't watch it last night? Yeah. ah No, i watched it last I watched it last night, but I didn't watch it in college when I was in this show because I didn't want it to, um no that's again, affect my portrayal. I know that sounds pretentious, but that's that's extremely normal. like It's extremely normal. You don't want to like be doing the movie on stage. Because you can do it unintentionally. It's not like, you know, I have to keep this pure. It's just like you don't want to influence. yeah Exactly, exactly. um
Speaker: I think I should have because- Watching this movie and seeing all of these actors in these roles, I see exactly... what the director of our production of How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying at Stephen F. Austin State University in Nacogdoches, Texas was doing.
Speaker: Oh, okay. He was just casting the movie is what he was doing. Well, that's mistake. Every single actor. Because the movie is inferior to the- Is inferior to the stage production. He didn't use any creativity in reimagining these characters. Every single person that was cast in each, like our Bud Frump looked exactly like that Bud Frump. Really? Now that's another one. That's a famous recast because Charles Nelson Reilly played Bud Frump in the original production.
Speaker: Yeah. won a Tony. um Yeah. the The two acting Tony winners from this show were Robert Morse and Charles Nelson Reilly. And I guess Charles Nelson Reilly was older and that's why they wanted to recast him. Yeah, they couldn't cast Or it's possibly he was too gay.
Speaker: Yeah. And like, because the guy that they have play Bud from is still pretty gay. ah Yeah, he's still pretty gay, but he's very handsome. Anthony Teague, who is a big deal in West Side Story.
Speaker: Oh, yeah. Yeah. But he's very, very handsome. is. Like, looking at all of them, I was like, oh, my God. We had our short king, um like, J. Pierpont Finch. We had um the girl that they cast as Smitty looks exactly like Blondie Smitty. Yeah. And they gave her glasses and pigtails. Yeah. And, like, they did, like, no reimagining. I apparently look a lot like Krumholtz. I mean, she's a redhead. Did you have a pixie cut in college?
Speaker: I did not have a pixie cut. Okay. Yeah. But I do have a big mouth. But you are tall. And she also, I am tall and I do have a big mouth. Yeah, because she's got like a Carol Burnett thing almost going on. Yeah. People tell me I look like Carol Burnett all the time.
Speaker: don't know if I think that's true. Yeah. I know. i don't see it all the time. i get it in terms of like vibes. Sure. mean, you're funny and tall and redheaded, so.
Speaker: Exactly. i also get Lucille Ball. um But I don't look like either of those ladies. Worse things to get than Lucille Ball. I know, right? Lucille Ball and and Carol Burnett.
Speaker: But yeah. ah So I was just like, okay, I see it. I see it now. And like every single person, with the exception, i don't know what he was doing with Rosemary. I think he just didn't know what to do with Rosemary. um Because our Rosemary looks nothing like Michelle Lee.
Speaker: And yeah, i I should have just watched it and then I would have been a little less bitter. oh well. um yeah i mean shocking to hear that a college production ripped off a movie i've never heard that happen before anywhere um so yes so those are i think we went through the cast um there is we start on new york city baby 1967 yeah new york city ever heard of it and we're here with dear reader
Speaker: So in the musical, he is hit on the head by the book as it falls out of the sky. In the movie, he buys it at a newspaper kiosk.
Speaker: The book has the cover. That's the poster of the original Broadway show, which I love. It's super cute. And this movie was filmed, ah exteriors at least, at the J.P. Morgan Chase building, which at the time i ah was the Union Carbide building in New York, which is just down the street from where I worked on Park Avenue when I worked at Quarters. When I lived in New York. Yeah, just down the street.
Speaker: Did you used to walk down and um like, recreate these scenes? I did not. But it is, like, I mean, so that that building was torn down in 2021 and replaced by an even bigger, uglier building in 2021, which is the new JPMorgan Chase building.
Speaker: But it was, like, we... Yeah, I don't remember what people called it. They called it, like, the monolith or something. It's this big, ugly, black building on... Yeah. um It's this massive... um you know, brick in the middle of um of Park Avenue.
Speaker: And yeah the thing they are replaced it with is is even bigger and like more ominous looking. It's a very- yeah It's perfect for what this movie is going for. oh yeah.
Speaker: But also, this is the first of Emma's Fun Facts, Emma's Fun Facts. Several of the exterior shots that were shot in New York um were done sort of like indie style. So like they shot a lot of these shots of Robert Morris walking down the street without anyone knowing that.
Speaker: where he's dancing without anyone knowing that there were cameras around and they gave him an earpiece to sort of like let him know where they were and in true New York fashion he famously said that nobody blinked an eye I mean you can see people notice him for sure but yeah it is it is a very like New York thing where it's like that person's doing something that's none of my business yeah yep none of my business just gonna keep on moving Um, Times Square looks so quaint, uh, from that. does Charlie was just like, wow, it looked a lot nicer. Although I know that it was apparently seedier, but boy, does that look a lot nicer than it does now. In 67, it was probably going to seed. I'm not a hundred, I'm not a hundred percent yeah sure. Like when all the porn theaters opened, but it looks so clean.
Speaker: We get the voice of the book. Now in the original show, Walter Cronkite did the voice, which is prerecorded and just played at the show in the, um, In the Matthew brought you know, they always cast short kings as Finch.
Speaker: You've got Robert Morris. They do. Matthew Broderick and Daniel Radcliffe. At least not the the original cast of those three are all little tiny guys. Yeah, little short kings. and I wonder if that sort of like adds his character. What's-His-Fuck is super short too, right? the um The guy who he he replaced Daniel Radcliffe on Broadway. He, um oh man, he's in all that that Ryan Murphy trash stuff.
Speaker: deren chris Darren Criss? Darren Criss. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is he a little guy? Is he short? I don't know. I want to say he's like average. i don't I don't know. I've never met him. Yeah. We'll have to ask our friend who went to college with him. Yeah, right.
Speaker: um ah or we or we don't. um we don't and we never name his name yes um a so yeah so in that version um anderson cooper did it in the 90s version uh they used the same walter cronkite recordings which is just it's great i don't know why they didn't use the walter cronkite recordings for the movie maybe they didn't want to pay him um but they got uh carl princy who's a who's a famous radio guy um and it has a you know has a very famous voice also yeah and he's got like a good voice for it um We start with Finch, who is a window washer on this building.
Speaker: And he started to read this book that he picked up at the um at the kiosk, and it's How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying. And this whole thing, okay, so my big problem with this movie, the musical is so, for especially for 1961, it's And the book must have been even more so in 1952. My God. Yeah. So cynical and so sarcastic and insincere and yeah um like oomphish and so funny. It's very like tongue in cheek. Very, very, it's very satirical. And the musical is very satirical as well.
Speaker: And this movie really files the edges off a lot of that. um It really does. The movie wants you to take it a little more seriously than the musical. The musical does not have a serious...
Speaker: like minute in it. Even, even the love story is framed in satirical way. yes Yeah. Of like, you know, like Rosemary's big song is I'd be so happy to keep his dinner warm. I was so fucking excited to show that song to Charlie. Cause he'd never seen this before. um and so I was so excited because every time we like take the train, we go through new Rochelle. Exactly. New Rochelle.
Speaker: yeah exactly neuroche um famously revived in the 90s with megan mullaly playing roseberry yes yes love it also sarah um yeahp yeah yeah am um and so like i was so excited to show him and then like they skipped over that and then like they skipped over coffee break which is my personal favorite number coffee break is really fun Coffee Break is so fucking good. Now, they filmed Coffee Break. and Yes. And when they originally showed this movie at, i don't remember what it was, there was a there was a like a ah midnight like cutoff where they had to stop the movie. So they're like, the movie's too long. So they had to cut Coffee Break to fit into this time slot. And then they lost it.
Speaker: so like when they were trying to like years later they were trying to restore the movie and they're like okay so where's that where's the film from coffee break and it's gone it's like it's gone it's probably going to be one of those things where like it shows up in argentina at some point like years down the line i hope so half the movie metropolis was like they've discovered in various places like that yeah but as of right now the the footage from coffee break that they filmed with this movie is missing Because you know that that, like Coffee Break, choreographed by Bob Fosse, yeah you know that was fucking good. yeah You know that was like an insane thing. And you can see where Coffee Break was because they do the lines leading up to it. They do the lines leading up to Coffee Break. yeah yeah And then they just cut. And I'm like...
Speaker: No coffee break? Which is kind of like a showcase for Frump, too. Like, he's missing from this movie a lot. yeah Oh, yeah. Which I think adds to the fact that it, like, feels it's a little bit too serious at times because you don't have Bud Frump, like, in every scene going, mom Yeah, yeah. I'll get you.
Speaker: I'll get you, J. Piercum Finch mother! So, yeah because the other thing that they cut is how to keep his happy keep his dinner warm, which famously features the line, basking in the glow of his perfectly understandable neglect. like Yes! move the The show knows what it's doing. is...
Speaker: It is taking the lyrics it is taking yeah a sideways glance at all of these things throughout. yeah And the movie exactly wants you to like Finch a lot more. And the movie wants you to like, they have this whole like moral thing at the end where Rosemary is like, you can't be dishonest. Like that's not in the musical at all. That's not. um Like, no one, even Rosemary doesn't care that he, like, swindles his way to the top in the musical. um Yeah, she's like, okay. She's like, i'll um I'll do whatever you want. Like, it's. Right? Well, and I think that a huge part is that they cut all of Rosemary's songs. They did. So.
Speaker: and by cutting all of her songs, you lose that sort of like female dynamic and then replacing it with the first reprise, which isn't a reprise because I guess the actual reprise is, um I believe in you. yeah but that I believe in you is the biggest problem with this movie. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Which is one of the best songs in the entire fucking musical. It's my favorite song for sure. Yeah. And they just sort of like, right right and i think it comes because they had her do a version of it yeah at the beginning but like they caught paris original which is again one of the best songs yeah now paris original coffee break when you did the show did they did did you do cinderella darling we did we did cinderella because it is it is cut a lot of times yeah yeah no we did cinderella darling another schmitty and the women's song yeah i was real bitter yeah
Speaker: Um, so yes. So he gets there. he just slides, just opens the window and walks in and takes yeah off his window washer's uniform and has got a suit on. Well, also think it's so funny because he has a three-piece suit underneath his window washer uniform. And he's just like, well, I guess I'm going to go apply for a job, dear reader. It's very theatrical, a little bit. So they they abandon this pretty early, but they do these theatrical freezes a couple of times early in the movie. Yeah. Where he's reading and everybody freezes around him.
Speaker: Um... his performance is, it's just so perfect. He does so much close talking with these people. Like he just face like nose to nose with all of these like men who tower over him.
Speaker: Like the bit where, the bit where he starts rubbing his head on Mr. Mr. Gatch's like hand, um, oh yeah mean oh my god it's just like you can see that he's having fun and like that's the most important thing at the end of the day guys he's still doing the show from the musical even though the yeah script has changed around him which I and tried to be a little bit more sincere yes yeah he's an imp um throughout this yes yeah as The book says the right company is big is a big one where no one knows what the other fellow is doing. And that is very much the worldwide Wicket Corporation, which is where they work. Yep. Again, and then what what is a Wicket? What do they do? No one knows.
Speaker: No one knows. A guy comes out of the elevator and he goes, you, you right there. You, you telling me that we're out Wickets and Wickets and Wickets and Wickets? Denver is out of Wickets.
Speaker: Denver's out of wickets. Go fix that wickets. And then it like he runs away and then the other guys are like, who was that guy What's a factory? What's a wicket? Yeah. yeah it's all It's all artifice. Everybody is here based on nonsense. And I mean, which is, that's how kind of how the real world works now. And it's how it worked in the 60s. Yeah.
Speaker: Oh, and it should be said that J. Pierpon Finch, played by Robert Morse, um this is not his first foray. Well, I guess it is his first foray. But it's not the only time that he will be at a big satirical company. um He comes back in... the 2000s and he is one of the bosses in madmen and i remember being so excited he is um he is burt cooper um of yeah of um um sterling cooper the the agency he is one of the yeah he's a secondary character he's in all seven seasons um yeah it's not a it's you know he doesn't have like a ton of like storylines or anything but he's there the whole time and he's like a yeah
Speaker: He's a weird little guy in that as well. I like to think that he's just J. Pierpont Finch grown up. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah he's yeah. He likes Japanese erotic art. um He makes you take his shoes off in his office. Yep.
Speaker: He's basically the same character, just older. Yeah. And that's why they cast him. And then he gets a musical number in the in the last season of Mad Men as well. because Yeah, when he dies, right? no Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. um ah So we have Rudy Valli, who plays Mr. Bickley. Now, Rudy Valli... was one of the first teen idols in America. Oh!
Speaker: In the early twenty s Rudy Valli and his band were huge. I believe he played the saxophone? um But he was also a singer and was a huge radio star and later movies. um Oh. He's probably most famous in movies for the Philadelphia story where he's a little bit older. But when he was in his 20s, it was like screaming girls, like rending garments over Rudy Valli. Yeah. He was a huge deal. Yeah. Oh, my God. And he's quite old in this. But yeah, you can find picture of like young Rudy Valli.
Speaker: We're talking Philadelphia story like the... No, no, no, no. The 40s Philadelphia story, yeah. The the Catherine Hepburn. I was thinking... You were thinking Philadelphia. The movie. You were thinking Philadelphia. yeah Yeah. yeah I was like, wow, wow. He recognized him all the way in the 90s. There's a picture of him in the chat. Oh.
Speaker: oh yeah, because now we've got chat. Yeah. I'm sure we've always had to oh wow hello look at his little saxophone yeah um law anyway so he's Mr. Bigley um and yeah he is and then we have miss Bud Frump and Bud Frump is his nephew who is a scheming little twink who yeah is his mother is Mr. Bigley's wife's sister so he calls his yeah mother and she calls Mrs. Bigley and Mrs. Bigley calls mr Bigley Yes. And he just wants everything.
Speaker: Like he wants to be the top. He wants all the jobs and he doesn't want to do any of the work for it. And there's neither does Finch. Yeah, neither does Finch. Nobody's doing the work. same There is no work.
Speaker: Yeah. um Some might say that Bud Frump is the real protagonist of the story because he acknowledges J. Pierpont Finch's um ah sociopathness. Yeah.
Speaker: and is trying to protect the company from it the only difference is that he's trying to get there on nepotism and but and uh finch is trying to get there on trickery um yeah and manipulation manipulation yeah yeah so we have um we have a secretary ballet um instead of the car instead which leads into coffee break but they cut coffee break yeah um and then we have uh the company way which is yes one of the great songs oh Finch tricks himself into the mailroom by pretending that he knows Mr. Bigley yeah to the to Mr. Bratt, the HR manager. He never actually says that he does, but he implies that he knows Mr. Bigley and gets into the mailroom.
Speaker: where he meets um Mr. I didn't write it down. Mr. Tinsdale or something like that. Yeah. The head of mailroom. He's getting promoted. And then he sings this song called The Company Way where he's like,
Speaker: You know, I never make waves. I never have ideas. The company way is the right way. I just agree with yeah everything the company says. And no, maybe it took me 25 years to get promoted out of the mailroom, but but i did it I didn't get fired.
Speaker: And that's the big thing there. And there's a line at the end of this, which is as a musical theater or writer myself, like it's one of those lines, it's like, man, I wish I wrote that. Year after year after fiscal, never take a risk all year like Yeah. Beautiful.
Speaker: like Absolutely beautiful. Perfect line. Gorgeous. Nailed it. um There was a moment when Charlie was watching this um where he tried to get all up in arms because he's just like, wait, so he's getting promoted from the head of the mailroom to in charge of shipping?
Speaker: He goes, oh, no, wait. Okay, I guess that makes sense. It does make sense, yeah. Yeah, it does make sense. They're related. I could see him like trying to be all up in arms about like it being ridiculous, but it actually like one of the few things in this movie that makes sense. It's true. It is a, it is a very silly movie.
Speaker: Um, and then we meet Miss Jones or Jonesy, as they call her, who's Mr. Big, who's Mr. Bigley's secretary. Yeah. Yeah. If you want to get to Mr. Bigley, you got to get through Jonesy.
Speaker: And so ah Finch immediately like, like lays it on thick with her. And he's like, oh, you you you don't look at all like how the way Bud Frump described you. She goes, what's your name? It was Finch, F-I-N-C-H. Yeah, and that's a repeating joke. So Bud Frump described you like so much worse. That's Bud Frump, F-R-U-M-P.
Speaker: Like, he's working an angle at all times. You love to see it. At all times. Constantly reminding people who he is um And then, like, just throwing the other guy under the bus. Well, butt front sucks, is the thing.
Speaker: Yeah. you I mean, he does. He does suck. Like, you like Finch and you don't like Bud Frump. That's the the central like conceit of this musical. Like, the only way it works yeah is you have to have that dynamic because they are the same, really. They're the same. yeah And you gotta root for one and you gotta not root for the other. Yes. um One of them, and and unfortunately in the 60s, the way you do that is you make one of them gay.
Speaker: Yeah. One of them gay who's in love with his mother. yes um So we meet Mr. Bigley, who hates his wife and has a mistress who we'll meet later. um ah He has this insane, God, the the the production design in this movie, like the set. It's insane. So cool. His desk is a big question mark. It's a big question mark.
Speaker: because we don't know what Wicked's do. He's in this giant like red office. It's it's so beautiful. All of the like so in the main hallway there's like these different like the heads of the departments all have these bright primary color like wall splashes behind them.
Speaker: It looks great. um It's gorgeous. It's like this movie iconic. Yes. When you think of nineteen sixty s work culture, you think of this movie. Yes. um ah So we we find Bigley is doing his secret private hobby, which is knitting. The only way he can relieve stress.
Speaker: Finch is is scheming how to get out of the mailroom. And the the book tells him, you've got to get out of the mailroom as soon as possible. Now, he doesn't want to get promoted to head of the mailroom, which is what he tries to do at first, because he realizes you'll get stuck there for 25 years, like this guy. Yeah.
Speaker: And he doesn't want to do that. He wants to go up and up and up. So he suggests Bud Frump for the role, um trapping Bud Frump, he thinks, and then getting promoted even like several rungs higher into the junior executive pool. Until junior executive. Because he gets people saying his name and he like manipulates his way around seeming like a a humble, you know, good hearted guy who wants what's best for the company. But that's not what he wants at all.
Speaker: But no, he doesn't do any work. he's all He's utilizing all company time to figure out how to scheme to get the next promotion. Exactly. He's been there for two hours and he's already a junior executive.
Speaker: Exactly. Now, Rosemary gets his her sights on him the second he walks in the door. um and yeah She's like, ah, look at him. He looks so innocent. He's going to get eaten by wolves. and then he gets promoted two hours later.
Speaker: and her yeah friends are like, I don't know, man. Like, he seems like he knows what he's doing. Yeah. Yeah. She just likes him. e She just likes him. She thinks that he's like a gentle, gentle lamb. But really, he's he's a conniving, a conniving little weasel. And my favorite thing is that, like, she's constantly reminding him of, like, how little time has passed. Yes. And so, like, they go out on their date later on and she's go. He's like, I really want my own office. he She goes, you've only been ah working at the job for two days. Yes. Yes. What do you, what, yeah you should, you should be really proud of what you're doing. People like work years to do what you've done in two days. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: He, uh, we meet Hedy LaRue. Yes. Which is ah a sex pot, Marilyn Monroe. Hedy Lamar is where the the name comes from. Who is Mr. Bigley's girlfriend. Who's decided she wants to be a business woman. So he's placed her in the secretarial pool and she's a big problem for everyone.
Speaker: Because she's not very good at at being a secretary. And she's not very smart. Well, and the thing is, is that, like, we get a scene. So whenever J. Pierpont or Ponzi um gets his ah office, he gets Hedy LaRue as a secretary. And he opens the book and he goes, what is happening? And they go...
Speaker: Take a look at your secretary. If your secretary is not very good at her job, that means she's got somebody higher up protecting her. Remember, the fewer her skills, the higher up her protector. Yeah.
Speaker: and she like spends she writes in long hand instead of short hand um and she just she's not very she doesn't do she was the head cigarette girl at the copa she was yeah at least there when they pinched her she got a tipped exactly which like right yeah she and the the men treat her terribly which is what a secretary is not a toy is about which is this insane dance number where oh yeah the mr gatch it's not mr gatch it's one of the executives because mr gatch famously is a is a lech like he does treat yeah it's mr bratt it's the personnel guy you mr bratt yeah a secretary is not a toy no my boy not a toy and this it just it's yeah it's so fossey it's it's beautiful you love to see it it just goes on and on and it rolls right and it's just like tt
Speaker: yeah and just ah it's gorgeous yeah know that little spooting shuffle step they do at the end yeah oh and the three men with their like yes yeah if you didn't think this was directed or if you didn't think this was choreographed by bob fassi and you get through this number and you're still confused you don't know bob fassi yeah Um, uh, yes. Um, sublime is what I wrote. Sublime. So we learn little bit more about Mr. Bigley, um, who loves his alma mater, Old Ivy, which old ivy which I'm assuming is Yale.
Speaker: It's yeah. It's some, some, you know, Ivy league. That's not Harvard. Yeah. Yeah, because they were able to like throw Harvard out, but no other Ivy League names. Right. Yeah. It's I mean, it's silly. They're the Groundhogs and their rivals. Groundhog. Groundhog. ground huck are the the Northeast University or something. the Yeah, the Chipmunks. That's their bitter rival. And he hates the Chipmunks.
Speaker: Yes. And Finch is kind of sneaking around learning all of these things. Like he learns that from Jonesy, who's become his best friend. Yep. Meanwhile, we have my favorite number in the show, which is Been a Long Day.
Speaker: a long, been a long, been a long day. Where Smitty gets these two idiots together. Yeah. Where she's singing at the elevator and the two of them are both kind of like unaware or unsure if they're going to enter this romantic relationship and smitty kind of forces them together and forces them to go to dinner yeah and it's it's really it's really lovely yeah service for two 358 to make a bargain yeah make a date Yeah. This is also where she's, ah Rosemary says, what kind of female trap could I spring? Yes.
Speaker: It's like such a random line because um they're like going back and forth and that like, they're like, I don't know if I should do this. I don't know if I should do this. And then randomly, like it goes back to like her line and she goes, what kind of female trap could I spring? And we'd cut happy to keep his dinner warm from earlier. So there's less context for the kind of,
Speaker: satirical edge to rosemary's character as well um because yeah it's played a lot straighter um as like actual love in this because yeah you know she's she's got upward mobility too like and in the 60s the upward mobility for a woman as ah as a secretary is to marry an executive and then you won't have to worry about money anymore exactly and so she just wants to marry him And be happy to keep his dinner warm. She wants to marry an executive. Like, again, it has nothing to do with him specifically. Yeah, like just an executive. She's, she's, yeah, she's, she's not interested emotionally either. She's, she's invested financially just like he is.
Speaker: Yes. Which is part of the beauty of this show. And it's how it avoids being like super sexist for 60 years. Like the reason they're able to revive this in the 90s and in the 2010s is because like it does have that edge and that edge still works.
Speaker: Yeah. It still works. It's a satirical... It's not. you Look at the 60s. It's not exactly feminist, but it certainly, like, gives... that they just say There's females with agency in this yeah musical. yeah And they cut all that agency out in the movie.
Speaker: Yeah, kinda. Yeah, they kinda Yeah, because they, like, they try to, like, hint at it with their conversation at Stouffer's. Because she's like, and here's my here's my sister and her, like, five or six kids and how many kids do you want? and did it up yeah But, like, it's such a brief conversation. that like it it doesn't really make a blip it's not as powerful as like an entire song explaining the i want of rosemary yes exactly yeah it is it's her i want song yeah yeah so then ah we have hedy larue is complaining to mr bigley that you know she wanted to be a businesswoman and she says i wanted to be a businesswoman like fanny farmer or helena rubinstein
Speaker: Now, Fanny Farmer, little Katie's historical corner. you want to do it Katie's historical corner. Um, actually. So Fanny Farmer um founded the Boston Cooking School, and I didn't do as much research on her because Helena Rubenstein is much more interesting.
Speaker: Do you know who Helena Rubenstein was? It sounds familiar. Who is she? I didn't know who she was either. She founded the Helena Rubenstein Cosmetics Company. um which would eventually be taken over by L'Oreal. But she revolutionized makeup in the first half of the 20th century. She was, first of all, she was a woman CEO and she literally invented so much of what we think about makeup in general. She was the first one to invent the cabin.
Speaker: Cabin's kind of like an old school term now Do you know what a cabin was? No, what's a cabin? You would go to a cabin and it was like, it would be ah like hair and like makeup and like, like it would be like an esthetician, like skincare stuff, like all in one place. And they called them cabins. And they were really popular like the 50s, 60s and 70s. And even now they still have them. Like I Googled cabins and there's beauty cabins in Chicago. so Oh.
Speaker: So she also, okay let's take a break. And. She also kind of invented the idea that skin hydration was important to the the concept of beauty. um She invented ah the mascara tube.
Speaker: She invented like putting fibers in mascara to lengthen lashes. She kind of came up with the idea that skin tone was a factor and and like you would need different kinds of makeup based on your skin tone.
Speaker: That seems insane that it took them that long to discover that. yeah Right? She was the first to talk about retinol. She was the first to talk about nutrition in terms of skincare. And then there was a hostile takeover by the French company L'Oreal, which was run by a Nazi collaborator. And things kind of didn't work out great for her. I mean, I'm sure she got a huge payout, but yeah, the Rubenstein company who like, she was Jewish and I was going to say, was she Jewish? Yes, taken over by L'Oreal, which was run by a Vichy French Nazi collaborator.
Speaker: Add that to the list of things that we can't use anymore. Just like all, like pretty much all stories of powerful women, it ends sadly, unfortunately. Yes, just like all stories of powerful women.
Speaker: Goodness. So this is the scene. This is still the, um and there's like a little reprise of, um I believe in you. No, not I believe in you. Of Been a Long Day.
Speaker: Where, um ah this is where Bud Frump finds out about Hedy LaRue. And so he blackmails his uncle Bigly into promoting him into an executive as well.
Speaker: So he gets out of the mailroom. Yeah. He uses all the same tactics as J. Pierpont Finch, but um worse. Well, he uses them openly and nakedly and doesn't disguise himself. He's not manipulating someone. He's blackmailing someone straight up.
Speaker: yeah he's Yeah. He's doing it in a less ah less adorable way. Exactly. and so that's why you hate him. But at the same, like, next to each other, they're the same. Exactly. um We ah have the date with Rosemary, which we all talked about a little bit. And when they walk home, This is when I think the movie really ruins what it's got going for it. Yeah.
Speaker: Because the most, probably the most famous song from this is I Believe in You, which was covered by like Frank Sinatra and a bunch of other people. became like a pocket. it's a great song. But it's always missing the context of the musical because yeah the whole thing of I Believe in You is that he's singing it to himself in the mirror.
Speaker: Yeah. Now, the way they ruin this is they turn that into a reprise because in the musical, it doesn't show up until act two. It's kind of the 11th hour number. Yeah.
Speaker: Where he is. um um bottom He's singing this so this to himself because he's the one who believes in him. But in the music, in the movie, they have her sing it first.
Speaker: but And then they they kind of taint that like selfish character of his by making it a reprise of Rosemary saying it to him, linking it to Rosemary.
Speaker: Now, he doesn't play it that way. He plays it the the the same way as he does in the musical with that kind of like selfish, like impish charm. But yeah has because of the relationship to Rosemary and because he's now reprising the song sung by Rosemary... you link it to him loving Rosemary, which is not really a sincere thing that happens in the musical.
Speaker: Like there, he realized, and we'll get to that later, but like the whole thing about Rosemary is he uses her to get ahead and she uses him to get ahead. Like, yeah, exactly. They don't even really care about each other necessarily. Yeah. They don't even really know anything about each other. And like, which is also why the date scene is so not necessary. yeah um Because like, we you don't get that in the musical.
Speaker: And that helps to sort of like, move the story along and that they just see each other at work and they don't really like know anything about each other except that they want to utilize the other one to like get their end game and in this they seem to like have like genuine conversations and i'm like i don't really want to see that because like that's stripping away all of the like satire from this yes yes it's making it too genuine yeah yeah it's too genuine yeah um and like this is a rom-com podcast so like far be it from us to like not like you know genuinity
Speaker: Exactly. But when you were when, when there's a vibe, yeah you got to stick with the vibe. Yes. That is not what this movie is about. It's supposed to be about. Yeah. This is when we have the the head the the groundhogs and the the chipmunks where... Groundhog.
Speaker: Groundhog. Finch pretends to be an alum of the same college as Mr. Bigley to bond with him. He also pretends that he's been there all night. He puts a bunch of coffee cups and cigarette ashes. And a bunch cigarettes. That was Just like pours it everywhere. my God. And he's just like lying down. And like, it took me a minute to be like, oh my God, is he going to like try and get people in trouble for like having a party at work office after hours? And then like, oh no, this is to show that he's been there all night.
Speaker: The 60s were a different time. Different time. Different time. and He could smoke all the cigarettes himself. Yes. He, and Bigley, because he knows Bigley's coming in the next morning because he knows he's coming in to get his golf clubs because he has to go golf yeah with Mr. Whomper, the chairman of the board we haven't seen yet. Yes. Yes. Now, This is when he pretends to have gone to Old Ivy and has to this just beautifully performed bit where...
Speaker: Bigley is singing the Old Ivy Fight song and yeah Finch doesn't know the song and has to like join in on singing him kind of slowly and hesitatingly and it's just it's played beautifully like it's so funny so so so good yeah it's a beautiful scene and it's a stupid ass song like it's groundhogs rip the chipmunks off the field yeah Yeah, it's it's really, really dumb. But like also, um this is the scene where he, because he had like overheard that Mr. um That what's his name? Mr. Bigley loves to knit. And so he brings out, he's just like, oh, I got it. I got a knit. And he goes, do you like to knit? I like to knit too. And then he brings out his golf clubs and they're all like individually knitted like covers for them. Yeah. yeah Charlie thought that was very funny.
Speaker: Yeah, this is, um, so this is when he's dancing in the street and they do the hidden camera bit. Um, he finally gets an office and miss, but unfortunately Miss LaRue is his secretary. Yeah. Which we talked about a little bit. Now he knows Mr. Gatch, his boss is a womanizer because he's like made unwelcome advances on other women. Very aggressive unwelcome advances. Yeah, Mr. Gatch sucks. Yeah.
Speaker: If it was, he would have been me too'd in two seconds. But like, he literally just physically grabs secretaries and pulls them in for a kiss. Oh, big time. Yeah. Which I think happened in the 60s for real. I don't think that was yeah outside the the realm yeah possibility. So he reads the book and knows that he has to, he can't mess around with Miss LaRue in any way because yeah um because she is, you know, he puts it together that Mr. Bigley is the one who is sleeping with her.
Speaker: And yeah so he gets her to send something to Mr. Gash and he's like, deliver it personally. And of course, Mr. Gash like leans in like for a kiss with her and we pan up to a guillotine and then pan back down and mr andd Finch has taken Gash's job. It's beautiful.
Speaker: Yeah. And they're like, he's been, he's been, uh, transferred to a different department in Venezuela. Venezuela. Yeah. Now Krumholtz played by Emma Palizza is now his secretary.
Speaker: Yep. And then he manages to weasel his way out of there by promoting himself because he's in charge of executive promotion. So he promotes himself. To advertising. And I don't know why he wants to go in advertising exactly. Maybe just because it was the 60s and like advertising was such like a buzzword.
Speaker: Because he knew that he was going to be um Mr. Cooper. Maybe. you Maybe. Yeah. But yeah, i mean, advertising in the 60s was like AI now. Like everybody was all about advertising. Yeah.
Speaker: He knew that he had to nurture Don Draper. And to get there, he had to go through advertising. So he starts working with Ovington and none of his tricks work on Ovington. None of them. tries everything. None of it works. And Ovington calls him to his office and he's like, ah we we see Ovington in his office. He has the book, How to Succeed in Business. Yeah. really trying So that he's done all this. That's how he's gotten here. And he's not letting Finch in. He's like, all right, Finch, like I get it, but I got to fire you before you take my job. So you're fired. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. And we think it's all over. Yeah. Yeah. And he's like, yeah, so get your stuff out. You'll get typical two-week severance. And also, we're going to throw you a giant party up on the roof. Yeah, goodbye party. And he's like, what?
Speaker: Okay. And then he's just like, I don't understand why none of my tricks are working. And so he asks Rosemary, who's his secretary who's this guy's secretary, and she's like, nobody knows anything about him. He is the office mysterious man. Like he has a phone that he keeps locked in his desk that he takes his personal calls on. Like, I don't even know what, what he talks about. The only person that you, the only way you'd know anything about him is if you were a fly on the wall. And he goes, a fly on the wall, eh? What about a window washer on a wall? Zoom in on his dumb, dopey face. yeah
Speaker: Right? blue ah Yeah. And um it cut to him back in his window washer uniform, but with a fake mustache, um washing the window.
Speaker: And he he sees him, this guy, open his secret compartment with the door, or with the phone, and answer a phone call. And he's like, ah you you can't talk to me here. ah Yes, I'll see you after work. Yes, yes. And so then he follows him.
Speaker: And this guy's big secret. Ooh, it's dirty. It's so dirty. He's a chipmunk. He is at a, um, a reunion for the chipmunks and he's wearing his chipmunk gear.
Speaker: Finch has found his way out. He tells on him and he's, he so gets immediately fired just for going to a different college. Um, and Mr. Bigley is like, I hire people from all over, but I'll never have a chipmunk. Yes.
Speaker: And Ovington's like, ah, well, we kicked your asses at the big game last Saturday. Yeah. Very stupid. it's very dumb. So now he gets taken over as the, as the vice president of advertising, but now in the, have a big party. And this is where Frump comes back and tries to sabotage him by getting Hetty to go take a shower in Mr. Bigley's office. And then he sends Frump up to Mr. Bigley's office, supposedly to meet him thinking that he'll, he'll get them caught together, which is easy way to get fired from Mr. Bigley.
Speaker: Yeah. And so he goes in and there's Hedy and she kisses him. And that's when he starts to sing Rosemary, which is. Yes. Again, in the musical, it's framed as he has this idea that Rosemary can help him succeed.
Speaker: That having a wife is part of becoming a successful executive, and Rosemary suddenly seems like a good idea to help him get promoted instead of being single.
Speaker: But in this, it's played more sincerely. Mm-hmm. where he actually loves her. And like, that's fine, I guess, but it is kind of disappointing. Rosemary's also a duet in the original show.
Speaker: Exactly. And like, and also the joke that Hedy has in it is no longer a joke. It's just a line that's straight, which is her saying, um poncy i think you're in love yeah um which is funny in the musical but played straight in the movie yes yes um so uh yeah so he doesn't get caught with uh hetty because rosemary runs in he asks her to marry him immediately they make out um but hetty is in the shower and comes out naked in a towel and rosemary misunderstands She goes, congratulations. Yeah.
Speaker: But Bigley ah sees them. Bigley realizes that Finch isn't doing anything with Hedy. huh he And that's the end of Act 1, and we're 90 minutes into the movie. And there's only like 30 minutes left.
Speaker: So then they have to take act two and really condense it. Cause I was just like, where is all the worldwide wicked, like treasure hunt stuff. Like we're 90 minutes in. I was just like, we haven't gotten to the worldwide wicked treasure hunt.
Speaker: Because there's this whole other subplot with Rosemary, like deciding she's going to quit and they have to talk her yeah out of it. That's the Cinderella darling bit. yeah There's also this like kind of,
Speaker: There's this like semi sincere song from the movie, which again is, is a parody because it's a man to his, to his mistress, not to his wife in the original show.
Speaker: Love from a heart of gold, which is this very sincere love song only on its face. Kind of like, yeah um kind of like I believe in you. Like if you only hear the words and don't see the context, you might mistake it as being sincere, but it is not.
Speaker: It is not exactly. And we of that. Because the only thing Bigley cares about is Hedy. Exactly. And at the end, he doesn't even care about her, really. Yeah. At the end, he doesn't even care about her. The only thing that Bigley cares about is making himself happy.
Speaker: Yes. So Hedy tells him she wants to leave. She so she gives him 24 hours and to promise he'll get her out of the secretarial pool. Finch reads the book and he's like, well, now you have to get a good idea.
Speaker: So that is a problem. Yes, because he does not have any ideas. No, why would he? yeah So Frump tries to set him up again. He knows. Now in the musical, we find this out a little bit more elegantly. But in this, Frump tells him that um he's got this idea about a treasure hunt, like do a big giveaway on a TV show. That's your big advertising move.
Speaker: in the In the musical, we already know that he's pitched this to Bigley and Bigley hates the idea. Yeah. But in this, they kind of they work that in as well. Yeah, they work it in very quickly, which is like during the pitch, which is the scene. the pitch scene is very funny. Oh, yes, yes.
Speaker: But before the pitch, we have the washroom scene where yeah the executive washroom, where everybody is trying to. They're like, we got to get rid of this guy. Like, he's a Gotta stop that man. Yeah. Gotta stop that man or he'll stop me. Yeah.
Speaker: This is where he sings to himself in the mirror, I Believe in You, psyching himself up. It's you one of the great musical theater songs. Clear eyes of a lover and figure of truth.
Speaker: um from sorry Sorry. And he goes in and does his pitch, which is just yeah corporate nonsense. Like he says nothing. Absolutely. He's just like, my idea will put you on the cover of time. It'll put you on the cover of Forbes. It will put you on the cover of golf weekly. It will take all of these numbers in this graphs that are going down, down, down, down and it will take them up, up, up. And my idea is going to be amazing. And they go, yay.
Speaker: We love this idea. Bud Frump is like, but what is the idea? And Bigley's like, well, he just told us. He just told us the idea. And Bud Frump is like, no, he didn't actually. Yeah. What is his idea? So then he realizes that Frump is trying to set him up and he manages to weasel his way into like getting this idea through anyway. And the reason why yeah he gets it through is because he involves Hedy LaRue. Now, Bigley needs Hedy LaRue out of the secretarial pool. And he, you know, is obsessed with her. So he likes the idea of her being the the pirate queen or whatever.
Speaker: Yeah, the the pirate or the treasure lady. The treasure lady, yeah. Yeah. Where she's going to go on television and explain the clues to this treasure hunt that they're going hide stock for the... um for the company somewhere in the kind of in the country, and that's going to sell more wickets somehow? It doesn't really make i don't... Because people are involved. I don't know the math. I don't know. I didn't get an MBA.
Speaker: um We get a few notes of Paris Original as we as we yeah show the the TV show. That's all we fucking get. Yeah. That's all we fucking get. One of the best songs in the goddamn musical. I feel like they hit a couple of lines of... um I'm happy to keep his dinner warm earlier too. Like just like musically. like Yeah. Oh, for sure. Cause it's all worked into the overture. like if they're playing bits of the overture as like underscoring music, like it's going to pop up.
Speaker: Yeah. This is when shows she's on the air and they're making her swear on a Bible that there's no, um no lying. there's It's not crooked and because, because of the 21 scandal. So another bit of Katie's history corner in the late Katie's history corner. I'm actually,
Speaker: In the late 50s, there was the 21 scandal, which was this big deal. There was this game. They made a movie out of it called Quiz Show, which is really good. um There was this nerd who was really, really good at this trivia show called 21, but he was a nerd and he wasn't likable. So the game show fixed it.
Speaker: where they intentionally had him lose. And then they had this really like suave, attractive, like charming guy. They gave him the answers. So he would increase ratings because he was, you know, charming. And he didn't actually know the answers to the, to the trivia questions, but they, they cheated and people found out about it became a huge deal. There was a congressional hearing. It was like this massive deal.
Speaker: And so, game shows were on a huge decline in the early sixties because of that. And it took them a while to like come back. And so that's all part of this, um, in a historical context for that.
Speaker: And, uh, this is when, so unfortunately, Hattie LaRue ruins everything because JB told her where they were hiding the stocks and she tells everyone on live television and everyone, yeah because they're in the buildings and And then across the country, all over, all the people are tearing the offices apart trying to find the $5,000 in stock. Things go crazy. yeah They go nuts. so Mr. Whomper, the chairman of the board, comes and he's going to fire everybody because this is a nightmare. This is when they have this really out of character scene where Rosemary is like, you've got to face them honestly. I couldn't love a man who wasn't honest. We're just like, that's not the show at all.
Speaker: Exactly. Because the whole point is that J. Pierpont Finch isn't honest. So and you can't love him. And neither is she. Like, she doesn't care about that. Like, in the musical, this is where she's like, I, you know, i believe in you. You, i will, I will stand by you no matter what. And yeah in this, it's very different.
Speaker: Yeah. And this is where he mentions that he was, a but they're about to fire him, he mentions he's a window washer. And that's where Mr. Whomper, the chairman of the board is like, oh, I was a window washer too. And he just has this little grin, like just bling. He's like, oh. He's found his way. because he has like the letter of resignation he's about to like sign it. goes, I guess I'll go back to being a window washer. And Mr. Whomper is like, window washer?
Speaker: You boy were a window washer? I started as a window washer. And he gives the um letter of resignation and the pen back to Bud to bud and turns with his little grin and goes, over really? yeah Tell me more. It's perfect. He's so fucking good. um And this is where they have the big number, the Brotherhood of Man, which is another famous song this. Which is very famous.
Speaker: Yeah. And like in the music, I know in the show, when Jonti gets up on that desk and starts singing, it's like, it's an applause break. Oh, yeah. They really undercut it in this movie. I don't know why. They really did. maybe it's because we forgot about her for a while. Or maybe it's just the staging where it's way far in the back. but like Or it could be the fact that this movie hates women.
Speaker: it It's possible. It's possible. We cut all of Rosemary's songs. That's true. One Smitty's songs. of Smitty's songs. Most of Smitty's songs. um And we downplay Jonesy.
Speaker: Yes, yes. um because yeah so she they everybody starts singing this song he's like we're all in a brotherhood of man which like the joke is like you can't have this super sincere like we're all in this together number at the end of this like completely insincere sarcastic show like that's yeah yeah and and she but she jumps up on a table and starts singing this like a high soprano she's singing like the the the counter melody it's it's it's great It's great.
Speaker: So that works. He uses this super sincere, like, like almost like Sousa inspired, like, or at least very kind of music man inspired, like almost like patriotic kind of, of number yeah to really unite everyone in the movie. They don't fire Bud Frum.
Speaker: I know. the musical, they do. Yeah. Things, like, progress a little bit. week We come back and we find that Whomper decided to marry Hedy and retire. Yeah. Nobody gets fired in the movie, but in the movie musical, Bud Frump does, takes all the blame for everything.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. He's going on a long honeymoon with Hedy LaRue. Finch is going to become the new chairman of the board. They go into this absurd office, like this set that they only spend like a minute in. So can you imagine and spending all that money on that? It's giant. It is like a whole soundstage. It's like a cathedral. It's got these huge yeah stone, like God knows where they were stolen from.
Speaker: Right. And then they have all these tall women all around him. Rosemary, who was going to leave, gets like charmed back. And it's happening. It takes time at all. She says, you know, they reprise the company away. And she's like, whether you're a window washer or the president, I still love you. And they reprise this little joke where like, say that again.
Speaker: I love you. No, the part before that. The president of the United States. and Yeah. And cuts to the White House. Yes. And he's washing the windows in the Oval Office and an actor playing Lyndon B. Johnson.
Speaker: turns around and like looks at him quizzically. Yeah. And you have to assume that J. Pierpon Finch is then just going to assassinate the president. Yeah. Something. And that's the end the movie. And we then we do like another little reprise on a big sound stage. The musical ends with Frump fired and out on the street finch throws the book off the roof and it hits frump in the head and from it's like oh i see so we get like yeah and it all starts all over again showing that like business is cyclical yeah well the idea is that you know that's how he got the book in the first place right yeah yeah very true and um that's uh how to succeed in business without really trying
Speaker: It's so good. It's so good. it's It was such a, I mean, it won the the the the musical one, the Pulitzer Prize. Like it is. know this is another Pulitzer Prize winner. That's true. I mean, technically, yeah I mean, this, this is a rom-com with ah a screenplay written by a Pulitzer Prize for drama winner. Although. There we go. It's the same show. So it's a little, it's not quite the, um the metric that we usually use.
Speaker: Yeah, but still pretty cool. It's it's it's the movie's disappointing because it doesn't follow through on any of that. And it really kind of sands all the edges off of yeah yeah off the actual show, which is, I guess, understandable for the 60s, because yeah even in the 60s, they were getting they were doing a lot of stuff on stage that they weren't doing in movies, you know? Yeah. Yeah. yeah You could get on stage in the in the sixty s so Yeah, exactly. Like, you could get away with super, like, risky stuff. um But, like, if you wanted it to play to middle America, yeah you had to soften it up for movies. And it didn't work. The movie was not successful at all. um Because if it was, Robert Morse would have been a huge star.
Speaker: Yeah. This is such... an incredible performance. He's the heart of this movie, the heart of the show He's the best. He has the best voice. My God. He has this like such an idiosyncratic like singing voice. He's his voice like has this little crack in it, but it works perfectly.
Speaker: It's just like if you hear like Barbra Streisand, you hear Judy Garland, you hear Liza Minnelli, you hear Robert Morse, like their voices aren't like your typical musical theater voices. Yeah. Yeah. They are unique to that character and actor and that person. And that is what his voice is. Yeah. And, you know, he did some more. He did a lot of other theater stuff and he had a perfectly, perfectly, you know, good career. And, you know, again, in his 70s and 80s, he was on Mad Men. He died in 2022 at the age of 90.
Speaker: um so um so he had a a good life but my god if this movie had been a huge hit like he would have have been a star yeah we would have had a lot more great performances by him to to see oh for sure yeah yeah yeah one thousand percent god yeah i can't like it's hard to think of of movies from this era that have like such a such a performance like that. i mean, like, listen, I love Jack Lemmon in the apartment.
Speaker: Jack Lemmon is great in the apartment. We love Jack Lemmon. bye We love him. But, like, he's no Finch. Like, he just doesn't have that that little sly little grin. It's like the look and the voice, it's all of it. The eyes, it's all of him.
Speaker: big old eyes yeah his big old bug eyes yeah it's so good and he's the only one within an insane face so that's why it works yes it's true everybody else looks adorable yeah he's this yeah yeah this little goblet this puppet yeah um oh man so great yeah it's ah It's super fun. um Yeah, because you should go see this musical. It gets produced a lot. It's it's great. yeah um If you can't go see the musical, the movie is almost as good.
Speaker: In a lot of ways. The movie completely taken on its own is, I think, a good movie. It just doesn't connect the same way the does. If you've seen the musical, you just feel like you're missing because they cut all the good songs. Yes, they did.
Speaker: Yeah, so... That's how to succeed in business without really trying. And it would still work today. It would. It would absolutely, which is why it still gets revived again and and again and again. um What short King will play? Oh, you know who? Oh God, I thought about this while watching last night. I was trying think of would play, who should, they should remake the movie is what they should do.
Speaker: I would love like better? Yes. If they remade the movie, like much more, much more in line with the actual show. And I was thinking who could play him. And I thought Skylar Gazzondo.
Speaker: Do you know who Skylar Gazondo is? No, who is that? Skylar Gazondo, I think, should be a huge star. He's so fucking great. He's this, Google him, yeah. he he played The biggest part he's had, he played Jimmy Olsen in the Superman movie last year.
Speaker: Oh, yeah, he would be so good. He was in the Righteous Gemstones. He's got that great, like, the Righteous Gemstones character is- And he's only Yeah. Santa Clarita Diet. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, I know him originally from the Santa Clarita Diet. i do too. He has that great line. But Righteous Gemstones is a really good example of it too. He's got that great line between, like like, he's like moon-faced, like sincerity, but kind of has, can have that, like, evil simmering underneath.
Speaker: What? Katie. He's in all of the all the Air Buddies movies. it's He's the voice, right? Yeah. He's in Spooky Buddies, Air Buddies, Space Buddies, Snow Buddies, Treasure Buddies, Santa Buddies.
Speaker: is he Is he one of the the voices or is he like the little boy? Let's Is he... is he he's He's the dog.
Speaker: He's B-Dog. Okay. That makes sense. Yeah. yeah Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God. I love that so much. Anyway, so I think he would that he would be a good... But but honestly, like yeah he needs to be in more stuff. like I think he's great. He does. He's so good. He's so, so good. Yeah. I love him. And I love seeing his face. Yeah.
Speaker: So next week, we are going to do a movie that I haven't seen. um This is a classic 80s rom-com movie. Hey, friends. Katie from the future here. So we changed the movie that we were going to do. We'll get to it eventually. And I left that little teaser just so you can wonder what the movie could be. But unfortunately, Dolly Parton died after we recorded this episode. And so we decided we needed to do an emergency Dolly Parton rom-com.
Speaker: So the episode after How to Succeed is going to be the 1992 Dolly Parton rom-com Straight Talk. It's set and shot in Chicago and Dolly Parton is super charming in it. And oh, also, unfortunately, her rom-com partner is James Woods. But we'll get into that next week. So um hope you enjoy. And now back to the episode.
Speaker: Amazing. And then after that, it's Go Get Your Ghoul. Go Get Your Ghoul! Yeah! Yeah! Oh, it's our favorite time of the year.
Speaker: That's true. Yeah. I love it. Amazing. Well, shall we outro? Let's outro. Thank you for listening to Go Get Your Girl. If you like us, tell your friends and please rate and review us on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. It helps out a lot and we would really appreciate it.
Speaker: Thanks to Andrew Millican and Nick Spoboda for theme music and Elena Henderson for our artwork. You can follow us on Instagram at gogetyourgirlpod or email us at gogetyourgirlpod at gmail.com.
Speaker: You can follow me and only me on social media at emilympizza. Until next time, we're just two girls standing in front of the internet asking it to love us.
Speaker: Good night. Good night.
