Transcript
Speaker: You are listening to something rather than nothing. Creator and host Ken Volante. Editor and producer Peter Bauer.
Speaker: It's Ken Volante with the Something Rather Than Nothing podcast and reaching Sarah Harden from New Orleans before I start battling and get into the show, Sarah. Welcome on to the podcast. Thanks so much. Thanks so much. Happy to be here.
Speaker: Yeah, it's great to have you on, and Sarah is a painter, quite amazing, a painting. She'll also do some prints that I've seen on Instagram, also an educator.
Speaker: And looking at your background and where you spent your time, you dedicate yourself a lot to art. So could you tell the listeners a bit about your development as an artist, or did you see yourself as an artist when you were really young?
Speaker: Yeah, absolutely. So I honestly grew up around artwork. My stepdad is a tattoo artist. My mom is a piercer. I grew up in a tattoo parlor tracing flash of sparrows and the heart with the mom in it. And whenever we were acting up at the shop, we would be forced to do lettering, figure out the fancy script lettering.
Speaker: And that was like a punishment, which I think I find to be absolutely hilarious. Then, you know, growing up in New Orleans, I went to a Catholic high school just because this was all right around Katrina time.
Speaker: schools were not great. So we, I was fortunate enough to go to a private high school, but it was Catholic. And I was this like, little emo girl, you know, that was like, had dark black hair and like, you know, gauges and
Speaker: wanted to be all badass and they were not having it. So, you know, naturally I went for like visual arts and things of that nature because I just had that understanding of how to draw and things of that, things like that. And it kind of gave me time to
Speaker: really think about what art is to me in high school. And I was like, this is just a fun thing. It'll be fine, whatever. But leaving high school, going into college, I realized I wanted something a little bit more sustainable for income and things of that nature. Growing up without health insurance is not a fun thing to do. So realizing that I want that stability. And I remember
Speaker: I was like, you know, I'll just go. I'll try and be an art teacher. We'll see if it works. I don't know. It's fine. And I get to ULL, the University of Louisiana at Lafayette, and I meet a slew of amazing art professors. And I mean, like,
Speaker: random small city in South Louisiana, two hours away from anything cool, you know. It can happen like that, right? Yeah, yeah, you know, there was like Brian Kelly, he's an amazing print maker, Dr. Patty Chambers, well, actually, she's now Spadford now, who was the
Speaker: the art education director at the time, Alan Jones, just amazing professors from all over the United States.
Speaker: It kind of took me from there. I kind of jumped in and said, okay, this is what I'm doing now. I love this. Then I got my first teaching position in Bay St. Louis, Mississippi, which was a challenging position. It was an all -boys boarding school and I was 22.
Speaker: And it was high school and they were dating people that were older than me and it was weird. But at the end of that year, I knew who I was as an artist because art was the way I made my sanity through all of this.
Speaker: I moved back to Lafayette the following year, taught at another school for a little bit, and then finally moved back home in the middle of the pandemic. Sure. Yeah, so it was chaos, but it was fun chaos. And I recently got my MFA from the University of New Orleans.
Speaker: And we're just riding this ride now, you know, kind of figuring out what painting is to me and, you know, still learning from an amazing group of professors from UNO and still in contact with those people. And, you know, they taught me a lot. So, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, I am about your painting too. And it's always like an approach of how to how to talk about painting. But one of the pieces of puzzles I was trying to figure out and taking a look at it is and I'm just generally speaking here. One of the things I love about
Speaker: the painting and art that I've seen around New Orleans, the color, the flourishing color and the combinations. It's so vibrant. You see it a lot around there and I think of things like floral and floral colors.
Speaker: how the houses look and paint and things like that. But also within your paintings, I see the structure of it with the shapes that you're building in within almost like this overflowing of color. And I just really fascinated by it because in my mind thinking about the constraints of geometric shapes and how that's plotted out.
Speaker: Very controlled and then the combination of color which feels like I know this and I see this. In the composition of those elements with structure and non -structure, am I seeing something that you're trying there or am I leading into dynamics that that's there?
Speaker: Yes, no, you are picking up all of it. There's a certain hum to New Orleans, a certain type of energy that just explodes, right? Different seasons, different times of the year. Right now, everything is growing as if it has never seen sunlight before, because it's like, yay.
Speaker: And part of my art practice is that I take these walks. I go around the city. I take a lot of photos at interesting times. I then layer them. I will kind of build out a composition in Photoshop using these photos.
Speaker: And then I kind of just let paint be paint. I know that that's a crazy concept after like taking time to get these photos and, you know, put them into Photoshop and slice them up and collage them together. What I usually do is I will like throw on whatever
Speaker: color, whatever mood, whatever sensation I'm trying to get out of those collages. I'll draw it onto the canvas and then I close that laptop and I shove it away and I kind of allow paint just to happen. Colors that feel intuitive just allow it to exist in this space. Now, of course, every now and then I go, ooh, I don't actually know what that building looks like. I do need to look it up. But, you know, I try and let
Speaker: paint do what paint likes to do, you know, allow the colors to flourish, allow the paint to be added on and then scraped off and then watered down with turpentine and then, you know, kind of experiment with mark making and with brushstrokes and all that cool stuff. All of that is really the meat of my painting. Yeah, yeah. I well, yeah, thanks. Thanks for chatting about that. Like, um,
Speaker: I enjoy that and thinking about that, and it's not spend too much time thinking about it, but thinking about those components of your painting. I've been to New Orleans a couple times, and there's pieces that I like about it and immersed within the experiences. It's a very literary feeling or inspirational towards literary sounding, and there's a romantic ideal behind that for me. I'm a huge Faulkner fan.
Speaker: Yeah, it's kind of like, you know, that that that kind of like history there, but it feels like it's there. And I adored the Cajun music and I've been to Tipitina's the famous. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, just one of those types of music list. But for me, it was really immersive, not knowing the culture as much, but being really into the arts. And even as a vegan for the food down that way, I ate
Speaker: Yeah, like, like, I didn't know before that, but I was like, Hey, man, like, if you're going to New Orleans, no matter what your, your intake, you might be having different things, but you're going to be well taken care of. Correct. Correct. I think all of that plays into the culture that's here. And I think all of that
Speaker: kind of touches in my work, you know, even if it's not necessarily the number one goal of my painting is to give a hum of New Orleans. Like, that's not really it for me. For me, it's more about my own memories and my own experiences just because I'm closer to those. But all of that
Speaker: background, all of that culture, all of those things that happen are part of my experience here that we're kind of putting into paint, translating into paint. Yeah. What about teaching? Part of the show, one of the things I, you know, asking about people's
Speaker: experience with art and development. I think if you talk to any human, you know, you sit down and talk, you can hear a story or you can come in contact with like the experience of art, whether they played music, whether they were a painter, whether the parents were. And it's always like a mixed kind of story or it's a great story, it's a sad story, but it's always part of like how somebody develops to be like an artist in their experience. And a lot of that has to do with
Speaker: being taught, not being taught, being encouraged like that. So you're in the unique role of practicing artists, but also trying to teach human beings how to be an artist and how to contact with art. What's that experience like doing both? Because not everybody tries to do both or is maybe active in doing both.
Speaker: Yeah, I personally love it. I'm not going to say that it's not a lot of work, because it is a lot. But I don't know. My students are awesome. I love my little teeny boppers. They're all so angsty, and they're all so angry at the world. And it's cool, because that's cool to be angry at the world.
Speaker: and they walk into their art one class and they see me in a striped shirt and you know crazy color pants and they're like she's weird and i'm like yeah i am you're gonna love me by the end of the year um you know and
Speaker: These kids that I'm working with, this is like a title one schools, it's majority, minorities. And some of these kids have never been told that they're good at things. They walk in first day, they draw a picture of themselves and I'm like,
Speaker: guys this is pretty good i love this and they're like oh this is trash i hate it you know whatever yeah um and then throughout the year they they're able to see their own growth which is something that is magic in my opinion like you talked about how painting is magic i think i think teenagers learning things that they did not know before is magic um
Speaker: And it helps me as an artist personally because I get to work with everyone from my art one freshman to my seniors that are making a portfolio to go to Pratt. I get the whole shebang, so I get these really in -depth conceptual ideas from these kids that I'm like, wow.
Speaker: That's really good that's a good thing to like chew on and then I also get to review how to draw nose and eyes and mouth every year for the last seven years you know with my art one kids and I get this whole experience of seeing kids grow and knowing how they think and
Speaker: It influences my own work because I look at a problem that they have and I go, ooh, this is how we can solve that problem. And they go, that's a cool idea. And I'm like, all right, try it. Throw scissors at it. Cut up the painting if you don't like the painting. It's fine. And having that more cavalier way of thinking because it's a high schooler. They're going to make a buttload of stuff in their life if they're starting now.
Speaker: they're gonna make stuff. It's just how it is. People are drawn to making things. You give them the tools to do it and they do it. But having my problem solving brain on constantly gives me in my own work, I get to say, you know what? I don't really like this part of my painting. And it frees me up to paint over that entire part. Allow it to fade into the background because
Speaker: It's not as precious as some artists make it out to be. Yeah, you have to experiment, particularly in teaching. You have to hopefully experiment with play. I wanted to ask you one of the big questions, conceptual, is what is art? So you're doing all this stuff, you're teaching it. What is it? What's art?
Speaker: I think art is honestly everything. But to put it down into less vague terms, I think art is the experience of creating something out of nothing. I am able to put this white canvas on these stretcher bars and throw paint at it, and it becomes something of value.
Speaker: Musicians are able to pick up a guitar, play a couple of notes, and create a song. I think art is supposed to make us feel things. I think it's supposed to make us think harder than normal. I think it's something that kind of stems from our unconscious mind, and we need something to put it out there. Some type of form, some type of thing.
Speaker: You know, yeah, I don't really have much else of an answer. No, I think there's a lot. It's a lot in there. And yeah, I mean, you know, all of those things. And, you know, I think there's like the emotion and the learning and the communication. A lot of time I asked the question and a lot of times people are trying to talk about how we communicate with each other, right?
Speaker: If I have a complicated social situation, sometimes I'll see something that might be an image of it and be like, yeah, that's the messed up thing in my head that I was trying to figure out, and it's right there.
Speaker: That seems to be inherently fun or productive. I think I was within the answer too as far as the role of art, but asking it a little bit further in connection to your comments is the role of art changed. I was reading in your work and just talking about
Speaker: Climate change in where you are in New Orleans. I mean, you know, it's it's a lived experience. It isn't an abstract Just like what the role of art now, I mean has it changed, you know what? You put up a painting, you know They an extreme example is like, you know, you're putting up a painting in a burning world. What's going on here has the role of art? changed in your opinion
Speaker: I think it both has and hasn't. I feel like it's always been this thing to make us question our society and make us think deeper about X, Y, or Z. I just think now we kind of set it ablaze almost. We're kind of in hyperdrive because we're racing against this giant clock that is
Speaker: climate change you know um and as like an artist in new orleans where we're losing 50 feet of land every year uh from our coast and hurricanes are getting worse and you know we we live in these chaotic times um where we can't really trust our insurance companies to pay out even though we've been paying for 20 years you know um
Speaker: that it, I don't know, art right now is important just to be aware of what's going on in other people's lives. It really is a tool for communication because of this art, we're having this conversation now. Because of this art, someone listening in another part of this country might not realize that Louisiana is in such a serious climate crisis.
Speaker: Maybe they'll do something about it. Maybe they won't. Who knows? But it's getting a message out there to say, hey, look, this is what's happening in my head. What does this reflect anything that's happening in your head? You know, do you feel some type of connection with this? And I mean, social justice art is huge right now. It's just it's a necessary thing. Yeah, I mean, it seems that when you communicate
Speaker: as a drive to communicate with more purpose. And that's a reality. And yeah, I appreciate that. And I think about it in this way. And when I was talking about
Speaker: uh... new orleans in the colors and again not trying to be stereotypical colors the flourishing hours uh... the the vibrancy that's there you can see it you can see it in the paintings uh... i know you looked at and in research and thought about uh... plants and when i think about plants in the changes that are going on here i immediately think of those delicate colors and immediately think of the the the delicacy of
Speaker: those plants, and you think of major things like heat, and we know things are going on. How is, in you doing your art with those colors, what's been your approach to that? How has that impacted you taking a look at what's going on, say, with the ecosystem that is in the environment of which you inhabit?
Speaker: Well, you know, right now I have been highly inspired to like capture these moments of like intense growth because New Orleans is, it's colorful, it's vibrant, but it's also super funny. If you ever like walk around a New Orleans like neighborhood, there are just these quirky, weird things that like our neighbors do, you know?
Speaker: uh down the street from me there's this guy that took a uh telephone wire wrapped it in um old tires to make a punching bag you know like and he goes and he works out on his punching bag every morning you will see him you know like
Speaker: and within that punching bag there's these beautiful little white flowers that are like slowly creeping up because he's making this new ecosystem of like rubber and wood and flowers and like it's the funniest thing and we
Speaker: We're just kind of a hot mess down here, but it's a great hot mess. We have everything is overgrown. Everything looks like it's dilapidated a little bit, and it's gorgeous. It's absolutely gorgeous. So right now, I'm actually working on a little series on handmade paper where I'm going out and I'm making these paintings of overgrown
Speaker: overgrown areas in New Orleans, and I'm doing the same idea of collaging these things together. And I'm kind of using these plants, like these delicate concepts, or these delicate images as a metaphor for growth, right?
Speaker: building and growing from the crack in the sidewalk or growing around the fence. There's this growth here that cannot be contained. Even if we try, it will not be contained. It wins. Nature wins every time. I think that's a metaphor for what people can be going through in life. You might want to put up a fence and stop here, but
Speaker: you're going to be pushed forward to grow into the next stage of your life or be pushed to think in a new way or things of that nature just because that's the way life is. I like that idea of flourishing. There's something energetically about being around those environments.
Speaker: I would say like even like as a way to live, like I lived out in Wisconsin, I'm from Rhode Island originally, I'm out in Oregon now and I'm very sensitive to the seasonal adaptations but living in the Willamette Valley, which I do, which is basically the the fertile caressin as far as I can understand it. I mean everything grows here, the it doesn't get too cold, the moisture remains trapped, you get the sun, it's like
Speaker: Grow, grow, grow, grow, grow, grow, grow. Well, and so, so for me, like I become attached to, you know, to those energies. Like I grew up outside of Providence, Rhode Island. And so when I'm around a place like this, which seems, still seems to, it'll always be a fantasy land.
Speaker: right? Ocean one hour away, gorgeous mountains, you've got lakes, the forest. I mean, it's unimaginable.
Speaker: Well, you know one of the things is that what you know with the threat of wildfires that have been out here has been like We're like I just think in the ways you Celebrating the flourishing everything that's there and then just like kind of the danger that is around it was one of the most terrifying Couple years back two or three years back when the wildfires almost came into the valley here in approach cities where I was like I
Speaker: I was just like, Oh my gosh. And it came down to which way the wind was going to blow just like down where you are. If it's going to hit, if it's going to hit over here or it's going to go a little bit West and it's, uh, yeah, it's, it's absolutely, it's chaos. It really is. Um, and you know, I, I really didn't look at my paintings from, uh, a ecological standpoint until after hurricane Ida hit.
Speaker: me and my like little block of neighbors were all good friends and we all hang out and it's great to be you know across the street from your best friends but uh we all decided okay you know what we're young we're 20 -somethings we can like hang we'll make sure that the block is cool so we stayed and it was really scary hurricane that we were out of power we were lucky because
Speaker: You know, we were connected to a hospital grid. So we were without power for like five, six days, which was fine. But going through the hurricane, you know, one of our neighbors, the roof caved in on them, you know, mom, just because a couple shingles came loose.
Speaker: So, yeah, it's a wild ride down here. It really is. And that is with a warning, we get hurricanes. And we're like, hey, guys, you might have to evacuate. And we're like, no, we're not going to evacuate. We're tough. We're from here. This is what we do. We take a weird
Speaker: pride about staying which is crazy and doesn't make any sense but it's part of the culture you know you're like no we're just gonna stay it'll be okay well it's the same dynamic that's played out everywhere when you're on the outside you say go you get go and you you know ignorantly obviously get going and when you're an inside you're either gonna stay there or number two you you literally can't get out
Speaker: Like, it's like, you know, even with warnings. So, you know, you're talking about millions of people. So it's, it's like cut both ways. And everybody on the outside, just do this. And, you know, I could see myself as the one trying to get out or I could see myself as being the person and being like, you can't move my ass out of my house. I mean, I don't, I mean, I don't know for sure. I might be either one. Yeah. And you know, you don't know until you're in that moment, you go, obviously we're going to do this. And you're like,
Speaker: guys that's like hundred mile per hour winds like coming at you and you're like no it's fine we're okay but like you know after that whole crazy experience in the middle of grad school you know um i i remember like sitting with one of my professors aria martin fabulous photographer um and she was like oof
Speaker: I see your work in a different light and I was like, what are you talking about? She's like, well, my house is gone. And and it kind of looks like this, you know, like collage kind of overlapping stuff in boxes, stuff everywhere. Yeah. And
Speaker: It kind of is. It's a little like aftermath of a hurricane. It's disjointed. It doesn't work really when you think about it in a more three -dimensional view. But you still have to continue on as normal because not everywhere got destroyed. The city has to open back up. So you might be living out of a room.
Speaker: with, you know, no AC, no power still. And you might still have to go to work because we're trying to get everything back together. Yeah, it's good to get back and going. It's Yeah, well, thank you for time. I mean, it's I think it's some
Speaker: I really appreciate the opportunity to talk about it, and through the painting too, going back to the idea of what was in there. Everybody, make sure you check out Sarah Hardin's painting, and we'll get into a bit more later on where you can tell folks where to find all your stuff. But I wanted to ask the big question of the show, why is there something rather than nothing?
Speaker: Ooh, I love this question. All right, so why is there something rather than nothing? I think because nothing's not really an option for humans. I think that we're beings that think about thinking. From the very early prehistoric times, we were painting on caves to try and communicate.
Speaker: What we're learning more about psychology now is that building relationships and communicating with people is how we become happier, more evolved humans. And I think art, in my case, painting is the way that I do that. I love talking to people about my work. I love communicating these ideas with people. And for me, there's something rather than nothing because I don't know how to do nothing.
Speaker: It's not really an option. In order to continue living life in some type of joy, there has to be something there. And visual arts, painting, printmaking, that is my something. And I don't think that that's everybody's something, but everybody has a something. Yeah, I think so.
Speaker: Yeah, I appreciate your thoughts around that. I've always thought about it in the context of the show. I think philosophy and philosophers, my read on the discipline has always been disruptive and provocative
Speaker: in a good way. Absolutely. The question creating other questions and I find that artists who think so much about what they do or
Speaker: maybe haven't had the opportunity for a while because you might get caught up in industry stuff or you might be like, I think when people do stuff for a while, like I work in the labor movement, I represent K to 12 educators support, oh, thank you. Teachers, teachers, janitors, custodians, food service workers, instructional assistants, special education assistants.
Speaker: you know um it's just that within within you know within uh all of this we're just like trying to uh strive and and and to become better and and and and to move ahead and um you know about one of the things i wanted to say about your teaching and because i i've talked to teachers a lot but one of the things i wanted to say is i want to tell you something like
Speaker: I've talked on the show a little bit about art activities that I've been done or prompted to do to put it in context over the last three or four years. Through my contact with the art world, through me creating a podcast, I paint and I do other forms of art. But just in all these experiences, just learning how to
Speaker: to do some basic things. I never took art classes in college and I didn't really have what I hear to be an art training or education K -12 like others. I haven't had that just from how it's been described to me.
Speaker: So some of the basic things that you do, some of the foundational things you do to be an artist, I know I've encountered two or three of them in the last year or two. And me encountering them in the last year or two being taught to me, it doesn't matter if they're simple or profound or basic or fundamental or whatever, it changed my ability to create art.
Speaker: And so one of the things I say to you is like, and I know as a practitioner, like working in labor, sometimes you're doing stuff and you just don't know like what it is. But I'll say for you, like in those type of discreet things that you do and that the students have the contact with, they'll have that now.
Speaker: They'll have that now just by being in contact with you. And I think that's a profound thing. And I think that's something we kind of waltz past. And I won't do it because I represent you and other teachers and other educators throughout the country, but I won't do it because that's what you do. Yeah, I think that, you know,
Speaker: I have a lot of street cred with my kids, and they'll be probably listening to this and then cringing because I said the word street cred. But I have street cred with my kids because every time they had an assignment that they had to do, I was like, Hey, guys, look,
Speaker: You have to make this. I have to make this. We're going to make stuff together. And they saw me creating. They saw me working. They saw me saying, oh, this doesn't work. I'm going to try this instead. Or, hey, do you all see these four paintings? These are trash. That's OK. We're going to keep making more. And I think that co -making with my students is something that
Speaker: They get to understand how I'm thinking while I'm creating, which is one of those opportunities that
Speaker: I don't know that a lot of other artists do with kids, because they don't think that they'll understand it, or they don't think that they'll really get it, or that they really care. But you think they're not listening. And then all of a sudden, they quote you back to you in the middle of you being really frustrated, and you're like, ah, son of a bitch. Y 'all right?
Speaker: You're correct. I was like, guys, I can't figure this out. I don't know what to do. And they're like, cut it up. And I'm like, well, OK, that works for y 'all. That works for you, but I can't do that. And they're like, why not? And I'm like, well, you're not wrong. Why can't I do that? Why is that in my rule book, but not in your rule book?
Speaker: And I think it's important for them to see an artist being an artist, living their life, and also not struggling, not being in a difficult spot, just making artwork because you want to make artwork. As a life. As a life. Yeah, a living artist making things and calling it a day.
Speaker: And it's it's a really it's a cool spot out of that right now, you know. Yeah. Yeah. I got to tell you, like I said, I haven't visited New Orleans. I got to admit, I am a bit wistful, although it is gorgeous in the Willamette Valley here in Oregon. Yeah, don't come to New Orleans right now. It's a hot and steam. Oh, yeah, it's bad. It's horrible.
Speaker: Everybody drive, no I mean the humidity, everybody complains about, I lived in Washington DC and learned about humidity and that probably doesn't quite, quite compare but it's probably similar. So we're speaking with Sarah Hardin and Sarah tell everybody, tell the listeners how to find your stuff.
Speaker: what you're up to, you know, online or we're recording here in early June if there's something for folks to know about where to come in contact with you, work physically, any of that type of stuff.
Speaker: Yeah, absolutely. So right now I am showing with Where Ya Art. That is an online platform for New Orleans artists. If you're interested in purchasing anything, that is all there. I'm really happy to ship. My Instagram handle is Sarah, S -A -R -A, underscore, harden, H -A -R -D -I -N.
Speaker: you can see all kinds of stuff. If y 'all are interested in commissions, especially if you're in the New Orleans area and you're vibing with what I got going on, let me know. Just DM me, that's cool. My website is hardenedcreative, H -A -R -D -I -N, creative .com. And I have a solo show coming up in Natchitoches, Louisiana.
Speaker: at the LSMA gallery and that will be in November and then from there you can catch me on Julia Street which is a big street in New Orleans full of galleries so I should be in there in a couple of months.
Speaker: Wonderful. I always get excited hearing about what's coming, you know, what's coming out and, you know, spots that you'll be because, you know, the show, the show's, you know, worldwide. There'll be some folks in New Orleans and, you know, the lecture art. And of course, you know, thanks for, you know, I was looking at your work and great to let folks know that you can get pieces to them as well.
Speaker: I've got to tell you, Sarah, it's been a great pleasure to talk to you and to come in contact with your work. I think when I engage with painters, or I see the painting that you do without having known you or met you before, that there's always something inexpressible there that I am brought towards.
Speaker: And, uh, I really enjoy being able to talk to you about those and for you to share, uh, you know, what is teaching and all the different things you're trying to do. And, um, and of course, um, my recent interest in, in, in plants come from the rooted podcast, which, uh, I've had, uh, and Gretchen Gaddis makes that show. So, um, it's, it's, it's fun to talk about, um, uh, flowers and the swamps in, in plants because why not?
Speaker: Exactly. Why not? Something rather than nothing, right? It's an open net. So yeah, thanks so much for coming on, Sarah. I really love your artwork and hope we get the chance to chat some more and share some more of your stuff. Absolutely. Love to do it. This is something rather than nothing.
