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More than Outcome
11 Plays4 months ago
In this insightful episode of PRIME SPACE, Elias Scultori, MCC, founder of PRIME Coaching Academy, unpacks a vital coaching distinction: the difference between an "outcome" and "evidence" in a coaching conversation. Drawing on a recent debrief from a Learning Lab session, Elias explains how coaches can sharpen their session agreements by helping clients not only define what they want (the "outcome") but also how they’ll know they’ve achieved it (the "evidence").
Using practical examples, including his signature "road trip" analogy and concepts from his exclusive PRIME MODEL and PRIMEplus MODEL, Elias helps coaches navigate the nuances of the ICF Core Competencies—particularly standards 3.6 and 3.8. Whether you're a new coach or deep into your professional development, this episode offers actionable insight into setting clearer, more effective session goals.
🔍 Key Takeaways:
* The difference between coaching "topics," "outcomes," and "evidence"
* Why clarity at the start of a session transforms the whole conversation
* How to handle clients who provide everything upfront—and how to acknowledge it
🎧 Tune in to refine your session agreement skills and deepen your client impact.
#Coaching #ICFCoreCompetencies #CoachingSkills #PRIMEMODEL #SeriousLearner #LeadershipCoaching #CoachEducation #PRIMECoachingAcademy #CoachingPodcast #EliasScultori
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Transcript
Welcome to Prime Space
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Welcome to Prime Space, a Prime Coaching Academy podcast with your host, Elias Couttori.
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Hello, coaches.
Learning Labs: Concept to Practice
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Today, during our episode, I want to address one of the conversations
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we had this week at the end of one of our learning labs at Prime Coaching Academy.
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The learning labs are when the coaches, the students, are able to apply all of the concepts that they learned during our intensives and put into action.
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So they are coaching.
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They are actually coaching, coaching each other, sometimes coaching a guest.
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and they then are able to practice all of these concepts and put into action all that they
Defining Outcomes in Coaching
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learned.
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So after the coaching session, the coaching demonstration,
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We were debriefing the session, and I mentioned to them that in general, I was noticing that they were being very good at supporting the client into arriving at an outcome for the coaching conversation, meaning when they were establishing a session agreement,
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They were able to support the client into arriving at a place where this is what we are looking for.
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This is the goal for this conversation.
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But I was not noticing that they were mindful of supporting the client into an evidence or what would be the measure of
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that the client is going to have to see at the end of the session that they really achieved what they were looking for.
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They really achieved the outcome.
The Prime Model Explained
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So we were having a conversation between the definition or the distinction between what is an outcome for a coaching conversation, what is an evidence of that outcome.
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It was not quite clear to them.
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And I thought it would be important for us to
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Talk about this here during our episode.
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And let me deconstruct this a little bit because some of you may not have gone through our program at Prime Coaching Academy, either level one or level two, or you may not have been exposed to my prime model.
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My prime model is exactly the core competencies, the ICF core competencies.
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But I always say, and I'm very passionate about this, I've said this before in these podcasts, the core competencies is a list.
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It's a seven-page document with very nuanced details about the skills expected from
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from a professionally trained coach.
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If a person is going to call themselves a coach, this person has these skills.
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And it's very thorough, the document.
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I am very passionate about the idea that I, as a coach educator, my job is to translate all of the details of that document
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into nuggets and concepts and clear points that my students are going to be able to actually implement and remember and live while they are in an actual coaching conversation.
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It's impossible for everyone to remember the whole conversation.
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list of seven pages of details from the core competencies and be mindful of them in a coaching conversation and still be present to the client and still be able to conduct a real conversation with the client, right?
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It's unreasonable to expect that.
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So that's why I created my Prime Model.
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And that's why I created the Prime Plus model for our Level 2 program, where in one graphic, in one snapshot, the coach and the student is able to grasp all of the concepts that exist in that seven-page document in one simple image that is easy to remember and easy to carry on without being burdened by these rules and regulations, right?
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But anyways, I digress here.
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The point here is that in the PRI model, when it comes to the specific points of establishing the session agreement, I call this focus.
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What is the focus for this coaching conversation?
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I have two points there that are very important.
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These points come from the ICF core competencies.
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It's a standard number 3.6 and standard 3.8.
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which is what is it that the client wants to achieve, wants to accomplish in this coaching conversation?
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And what are the measures that the client is going to set for themselves to measure that they have accomplished what we set up to do during the coaching conversation?
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Two different aspects.
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And you can go to the core competencies and you can read standard 3.6 and standard 3.8.
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They are very distinct.
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In my prime model, to make it easier, I call it what is the outcome?
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of the coaching conversation, the expected outcome, and what is the evidence that we achieve, that we achieve,
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that we know that we got to this outcome.
Clarifying Client Clarity
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So I call them outcome and evidence.
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So to summarize here, one of the analogies that I give about the distinction between this is a road trip between, let's say, between Miami to New York City.
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And I'm driving my car, and some of you have heard this before,
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I am driving my car from Miami to New York City.
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And so the goal of the coaching conversation is to arrive in New York City.
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So how am I going to know that I arrived in New York City?
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What I want to accomplish, the outcome of my coaching conversation, is to arrive in New York City.
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What is the evidence that I arrived in New York City?
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Oh, I saw the Statue of Liberty.
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I saw the Empire State Building.
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It's very distinct what is the outcome, what is the evidence.
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And you can translate that analogy to a road trip between Barcelona and Berlin.
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My goal is to arrive in Berlin.
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How am I going to know that I arrived in Berlin or I saw the Brandenburg Gate?
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or something like that, right?
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Very distinct on this.
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I talk a lot more about the whole concept of focus and establishing a session agreement in episode seven of our podcast here, Prime Space, The Crooks of the Matter.
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And I highly encourage you to listen to that episode that I have a little bit more nuance of the whole concept, the whole arch of establishing a session agreement.
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But here is the distinction between outcome and evidence.
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So let's say that the client says we are able to arrive at a place where the client says, what I would like to have by the end of our session is a little bit more clarity around this topic.
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Is that enough for us to go and continue the conversation?
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Well, what does the client mean by clarity?
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What kind of clarity is the client looking for?
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How is the client going to know that they arrived at the clarity?
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What is the clarity that they are expecting?
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So that is the evidence that we need to support the client into arriving so that they are able to say, okay, I'm going to see the different facets of the situation, a different perspective.
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I'm going to gain more awareness about this.
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I'm going to broaden my vision about this particular situation.
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That is the kind of clarity that I'm looking for.
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And I'm going to know this because there will be a sense of resolve inside of me.
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I'm going to notice that my attitude towards this situation is different.
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This clarity is going to give me some sort of an energy, a different type of energy that will support me into moving forward more clearly.
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Oh, so then the outcome is I want more clarity.
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And the evidence is that there will be a change of attitude towards this particular situation.
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Those are very distinct points.
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And as you can see, crucial for us to support the client throughout the coaching conversation.
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Now we know that what the client is looking for is clarity.
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And it's this change of attitude, this new level of energy around this particular situation, a different perspective around this particular situation.
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Then we can proceed.
Differentiating Coaching Elements
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Then we know how to support the client, right?
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Another point here that we need to be mindful of is that sometimes outcome and evidence, they may come together.
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Let's say the client says that, you know, I want to talk about here today is I would like to improve my relationship with my boss.
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That's a topic.
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That's not an outcome.
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I want to improve my relationship with my boss.
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I cannot improve my relationship with my boss within this coaching conversation.
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So therefore, that is not an outcome.
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I can only improve my relationship with my boss, with my boss.
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But I want to talk about it.
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And what I would like to leave the conversation with, the client says, is specific steps that I can take towards improving this relationship.
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What are the specific things that I can do to improve this situation?
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That is an outcome.
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What is the evidence that I got these steps?
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These steps are going to be realistic.
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And they are going to be both concrete steps, but also reflective steps.
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I understand that a relationship is a two-way street.
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And I want to also be reflective of my part on this relationship.
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So now we have what is the topic, what is the outcome, what is the evidence.
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The topic is improving the relationship with my boss.
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The outcome are specific steps that I can take.
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And the evidence is that these steps are going to be realistic and reflective.
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You see the distinction between the three of them?
00:11:34
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One thing else that I want to add here to this conversation is that in the debrief that we had during our learning lab, one of the students asked, what if we ask a question, what is the outcome?
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And the client comes and gives you both the outcome and the evidence.
00:11:55
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Do I still need to ask a question about evidence?
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Of course not.
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You don't want to be redundant.
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But it is very important for us to acknowledge that we heard it, acknowledge that we noticed that this is a topic, this is an outcome, this is an evidence.
00:12:20
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So perhaps in this last example that I gave around the relationship with the boss, you can start a coaching conversation and say...
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What would you like to talk about here today?
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And who knows, maybe there is a great client there that would say, well, today I would love to talk about improving my relationship with my boss.
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And I'm looking for some steps here that I can take to make this relationship smoother and more collaborative.
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And I'm looking for steps that are very realistic, right?
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and that are concrete.
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I can easily implement them, but they are also reflective.
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I love that client, right?
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We would love to have clients like that.
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But it is possible, right, that the client is going to say that.
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One question, what would you like to talk about here today?
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And the client gave you topic, outcome, and evidence in one answer.
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So do we need to go and ask what is the outcome for the coaching conversation?
00:13:36
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What is the evidence or symbol of questions like that?
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Of course not.
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The client already said that.
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But in that case, I would suggest that we emphasize, we acknowledge that with the statement.
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So I can see that improving the relationship, this is what you want to focus here.
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And you are searching for specific points that you can carry out with you and realistically implement them after the session.
00:14:09
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And it's beautiful to see that you not only want things to do, but you also want these points to be reflective points.
Practice and Upcoming Cohorts
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Awesome.
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You covered all of the points in this evidence and outcome for the coaching conversation.
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So keep playing with that.
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There is a distinction.
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And keep supporting the client.
00:14:36
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I hope that throughout these, even with the examples that I gave you here, that you can see that this level of clarity and being so granular with the session agreement...
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or what I call focus in the prime model, is so helpful because now the client, both client and coach,
00:15:00
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We know where we are going.
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And it makes it so much easier for us to support the client and to generate questions and to be present and to bring the coaching conversation towards that particular expectation that the client has.
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Okay, so play with that.
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And if you have any questions, don't forget to reach out to me.
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And I would love to talk with you more about these concepts, okay?
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And so please, thank you so much for listening.
00:15:31
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Please subscribe and share these episodes with others.
00:15:36
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We have our Level 1 and Level 2 cohort coming up in the next couple of months.
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So please, if you are willing to move forward with your coaching education...
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I have registrations are open and we would love to have you partner with us and be a part of the Prime Coaching Academy family.
00:15:58
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OK, so reach out and we would love to talk to you about this.
00:16:02
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Otherwise, everyone have a wonderful week and I will see you next time.