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Naren Chellappah - There's more than one pathway
139 Plays3 years ago
In this episode we are speaking to Naren Chellappah: the program director from Career Success Australia. Naren is an expert Career Coach and has held leadership roles at Australia’s top universities including Monash, Swinburne and Melbourne University. He has extensive experience in Career Coaching and his careers advice has helped over 3,000 job seekers to secure employment in Australia!
We discuss:
- The many pathways to get into the course you want
- The many career options you have to choose from
- How to get into what you want without finishing school
- Why university isn't the only option for tertiary education
- The importance of having backup career options
- ... and so much more!
You can find Careers Success Australia on Instagram @careers_success_australia
You can also contact them via their website https://careersuccessaustralia.com.au/
Don't forget to subscribe to this podcast and hit the notification so you'll always be in the know about how to succeed in your education.
For more study tips and tricks, check out our Instagram @allthingseducation21
Stay educated everyone!
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Transcript
Introduction to Post-Secondary Pathways
00:00:12
Speaker
Hello everybody and welcome to the All Things Education podcast where we learn tips and tricks to achieve our best in secondary and tertiary education.
00:00:22
Speaker
I'm your host, Mary Coleman, and today in this episode, we are going to be discussing how there are so many pathways that you guys can choose post-secondary school.
Meet Naran Chalo
00:00:30
Speaker
As always, I am so excited for this episode, but I'm even more excited today because we have Naran Chalo path from Career Success Australia with us. I'll talk about him and his organization in a little bit, but first make sure you guys listen until the very end of the episode because Naran says so much amazing knowledge and I don't want you to miss any of it. So stick around right to the very end.
00:00:51
Speaker
I'm super excited for this episode, guys. I cannot wait to get started. So let's jump right on in and get educated. OK, let's introduce our guest for today. We have Naran Chellopar, the program director from Career Success Australia with
Naran's Career Journey
00:01:06
Speaker
us.
00:01:06
Speaker
Narin is an expert career coach and has held leadership roles at Australia's top universities, including Monash, Swinburne and Melbourne University. His extensive experience in career coaching and his career advice has helped over 3,000 job seekers to secure employment in Australia. So it is a great pleasure to have you on the show today, Narin. How are you?
00:01:28
Speaker
Good, thanks Maren. How are you doing? Yeah, super good. You evidently have a passion for helping people in their career choices, especially helping those who don't know what to choose or what area they're interested in. And I'm wondering if you want to talk to us a little bit about how you came to start Career Success Australia, because it's helped so many people to be able to discover
00:01:51
Speaker
apply and learn their perfect job. Of course, you have a fantastic team of experts that also consult and coach. Do you want to talk to us a little bit about that? Sure, happy to. I guess when I think back to my high school days, I really wasn't too sure myself.
00:02:09
Speaker
what I wanted to become or to do. My dad was an architect. My mum worked in the healthcare sector in administration types of roles. But I wasn't really drawn to the sciences. I wasn't drawn to the business types of subjects. I did have a creative background. I got into classical music when I was a bit younger.
00:02:37
Speaker
But I wasn't really sure what to do. And so that made VCE a bit of a tricky situation for me because I couldn't really do the chemistry or physics types of subjects, the hard maths. So I just basically just chose subjects that I enjoy doing and I ended up doing more humanities and business commerce type of subjects.
00:03:05
Speaker
And then I sort of fell into like a commerce degree because I thought, well, I really don't know what I want to do, but a commerce degree seems to have the flexibility to pick and choose different business-y type of subjects. So I can sort of relate to students who are a bit lost in terms of what they want to do, and they don't have that natural instinct, calling to say, you know, you're going to be a lawyer, you're going to be a doctor, IT is your thing.
00:03:35
Speaker
And then my career started after UD, I worked in marketing, and then I was really fortunate to have the opportunity to start working at different universities, mainly in business types of roles. And when I was working on different campuses, I could see that a lot of students were quite stuck or unsure as to which career path to take. And that's how I fell into
00:04:04
Speaker
getting into this career guidance and career consulting type of work, based on what I had seen and learnt
Importance of Research and Mentorship
00:04:13
Speaker
and experienced when I was working on campus at different universities. And that's how I fell into becoming a career coach all through my
00:04:24
Speaker
Working around on campus, going to different meetings and talking to students as well. That gave me great insight. Yes, nice. And it's so amazing when you see people like yourself that have that next level of wisdom that can really guide someone to the right career for them. Yeah, awesome. And I guess focusing more on that secondary and tertiary, the students, would you agree that there are numerous options for a student to get into their desired career or course they want to get into?
00:04:53
Speaker
I think so. You know, if we look back 20, 30, 40 years, I think the options were quite limited, obviously, because technology hasn't had an advance, engineering hadn't advanced as much as it is today. And through advancement in technology, there are so many different new industries that students can choose. So there are certainly
00:05:19
Speaker
so many more opportunities for students, whether it's to get into a trade or into a different type of or new emerging industry, whether it's something in technology, perhaps or in environmental science and sustainability. These are really big issues that are facing the world. And through those big issues, new degrees or diplomas have been created to
00:05:47
Speaker
to fuel the knowledge gap that we need to be able to overcome some of these big challenges. So I think for students nowadays, whether they're in high school or entering tertiary education,
00:06:05
Speaker
They've got a whole variety of things to choose from, which is great. Wow, yeah. And how would a student go about, I guess, choosing and knowing which is the right job field that they should explore? Yeah, look, it's a tough one. I think there will always be like a group of students who know what they want to do. Yes. From their primary school days, they want to be event. From the get go. Yeah, or they want to work in construction. But I think there's still a huge cohort of students who are not sure.
00:06:35
Speaker
And some of the tips that I have is really about speaking to people, talking to people and doing a lot of research. Find out about the different roles, like what qualities do does a civil engineer have or a nurse or a social worker or a graphic designer. So definitely speaking to people
00:07:05
Speaker
maybe doing some short courses as well. So there's so many different, you call some sort of ed tech platforms like Udemy or LinkedIn Learning or even the Khan Academy where young people can hop online and test out a course in website design. And you might try something and really it might not gel with you.
00:07:34
Speaker
And potentially also having like a mentor is also good. So if you were in year 10 and you were thinking about getting into engineering, perhaps you can do your work experience program at an engineering firm. Or you can hop onto LinkedIn and maybe connect with a number of engineers and say, look, hey, I'm just in year 10, but I really love fixing engines. And I'm thinking about mechanical engineering.
00:08:02
Speaker
So it's about, it's a bit like taste testing and learning about what motivates you, what drives you when it comes to a different type of thing that you're learning or potentially you're going to do as a job. So I think it's about research and just speaking to people. And lastly, it's about having a good career counselor. So talking to your career counselor or advisor at school,
00:08:30
Speaker
uh and attending careers fairs as an example um you know where you can talk to different industry people so that's for sure i think some of the things that you can do yeah and i guess they can also talk to industries like yours you know like career success australia like i definitely think it's such a good organization because they can have a chat to you about those sort of things i'm sure yeah yeah and i also think uh uh going to the university open days oh yeah of course i think i think they're they're fantastic
00:09:01
Speaker
places where you can learn about the different courses and career outcomes and there's always big careers fairs. I'm in Melbourne and at the Melbourne Exhibition Centre there's usually two or three big career fairs every
00:09:18
Speaker
every year where you can talk to different companies. Yes, that's so good. And especially at the uni days, as you were saying before, the open days, they've got potentially like professors and experts in those fields. So it's so good to, yeah, speak to them. Nice. How would a secondary student, so yeah, someone who is in years 10, 11 or 12 go about that decision-making process? So like you were saying, that research and asking people
00:09:48
Speaker
Is that all they really have to do to kind of discover their interests in their career? Yeah, I think so. It's about trying different things along the way. You know, whether you're into the arts and creativity, you know, I think that's, there are different ways that you can sort of, you can test that passion
00:10:18
Speaker
And so I think it's what I was just talking about earlier, which is around sampling different things, going out and talking to people, and you know, even hopping online and YouTubing different career pathways. You know, what does an aerospace engineer do? A career in nursing. There's so much rich video content out there
00:10:42
Speaker
covering all professions that, you know, when I was going through this process, you didn't have that opportunity to, you know, to hop onto YouTube and watch a video
00:10:56
Speaker
to see what an electrician would be doing. It's not research. It's definitely a day in the life type of thing. Yeah, nice. I remember when I was in year 12 last year, I was literally coming home every single week and having a different career. I just kept cycling through all of the different passions and hobbies of mine and you literally want to do something every week. So that's sampling, like you said, and that research.
00:11:23
Speaker
Yeah, I think though at the moment, maybe this is just an observation, but a lot of young people, whether they're in, you know, year 10 to 12, we've got too many distractions happening in our lives at the moment. Obviously there's some big things happening. But even if you take away those big things like COVID or, you know, issues around the world, we're always on our phones, we're checking out what's happening on Instagram or
00:11:52
Speaker
or TikTok now. TikTok's actually a really good platform actually. It's a lot about careers and things like that. It is. But obviously we can use it for, you know,
Role of Mentors and Parents
00:12:02
Speaker
just entertainment purposes. Yeah. Go down a rabbit hole. Yeah. So I think it's important for young students to have like a good advisor or mentor that can steer them in the right direction. Because the last thing that ought to happen is that you end up finishing your 12 or high school and
00:12:21
Speaker
And you're not sure which pathway to take. And then you end up doing a course two years, three years, four years. And then you discover this is not what I want to do. So definitely parents play a big role in this process as well. And I think parents have to, if possible, guide their kids to those open days and talking to different people.
00:12:51
Speaker
about different jobs and what they entail. So yeah, I think that's, those are some of the key things that young people can do. Yeah, for sure. And obviously, it really does help if you finish your schooling. But for someone who, yeah, maybe has dropped out in year 10 or at an even earlier year, but let's just say year 10 for the sake of it, how could they go about getting the necessary qualifications? Yeah, look, that's a tough one. I mean, school isn't for everyone.
00:13:22
Speaker
And there's plenty of evidence to suggest people who drop out of school or uni go on to do amazing things. Yes. But I think if someone dropped out of school in year 10, the most important thing is just to not do nothing.
00:13:40
Speaker
So yeah, and that will come from the environment that particular person is in their family situation and their friends, their peers that need to sort of direct them into something that's going to help them with their career. You know, whether whether, you know, their passion is music like me when I was younger. Okay, fine. You don't like school, but
00:14:06
Speaker
if you play the drums or you play the guitar, well, you know, how do you pursue that as a career and a passion? But it's not the end of the world if you drop out of year 10, you know, even if you take a whole year off just to figure out what you want to do in life or whatever it may be, or maybe you've had some personal issues, that's okay. But the main thing is to have a good network around you that can help you get back onto the track
00:14:38
Speaker
And then, you know, you can always start off with a certificate at TAFE. There are so many different certificates that a government funded start off with a cert three in business or a cert three in hairdressing or cookery or electronics. So you can always get back in, you know, there's always pathways back in.
00:15:06
Speaker
So the main thing is to not drift off when you exit school at a younger age. Another option is, OK, so you leave school in year 10, but you've got a part-time job at McDonald's. And then that part-time job turns into a full-time job because you're 15, 16, earning good money.
00:15:34
Speaker
And I know people that have gone down this pathway, which is dropped out of school. You've worked as a casual at Kohl's and then you're working full time. You're earning more money than your friends who are at school or uni. And then, and then maybe you get into like a leadership or management role. You become a fruit and veg department manager. And then that's your pathway into like a corporate management role.
00:16:03
Speaker
Um, so I think the main thing is if you leave school early, you know, still have the vision that, you know, you, you have a career ahead of you. It's a matter of discovering what it is pathway through, through TAFE certificates, diplomas, maybe a degree. Um, or you may not, you may want to pursue an apprenticeship. So yeah, you have a massive shortage in the trade sector.
00:16:32
Speaker
So true. So lots of options. Yeah, nice. I think that's very helpful advice.
Employer Priorities: Attitude Over Skills
00:16:39
Speaker
And what would you say are some emerging skill sets that many companies are sort of looking for across the fields, particularly in that age range of 16 to 25? Yeah, look, we work with lots of different companies all around Australia in pretty much every industry. And what we're hearing from hiring managers
00:17:03
Speaker
is that they're more focused on the individual's attitude and their eagerness and their hunger. So they're looking for qualities like being able to take initiative, going that extra mile, attention to detail, being able to organize and manage multiple different things.
00:17:31
Speaker
A lot of companies are telling us now that, hey, we can teach them. We'll teach them that technical skill or that software. But we want someone who's got that real hunger to learn and to perform and to work hard. So that's something I think young people need to think about, which is you have to have that inner drive and that inner motivation.
00:18:00
Speaker
But from a technical skill perspective, I think in 2022, technology is only going to become more and more important. Things like automation, robotics, the power of the internet. So there is going to be a healthcare sector as well, mind you. So I think
00:18:26
Speaker
having really strong technical skills, so learning a programming language, I think that's really important. And if you have an interest in science, STEM, like the science, technology, engineering, maths, that's definitely the type of schools a lot of companies are looking for.
00:18:48
Speaker
Yeah, like you were saying, that progression of technology is definitely replacing, you know, some workers in job fields. But do you think that this advancement in technology will really impact people going for specific jobs or will it kind of stabilize the unemployment rates? It's a good question. We see it every day in our daily lives that
00:19:14
Speaker
We see that automation is impacting some types of jobs, like you just walk into any supermarket and, you know, you can't, it's very rare that you, you can actually have all the, the aisles open where you can put your groceries down. It's all self-service now. Yes. Soon we'll have driverless cars. Yeah.
00:19:40
Speaker
and you know when I walk my dog there's a lot of construction works happening around where I live and I'm just thinking it's a nice walk past a house being built and I see five people working on that site I'm thinking it's only a matter of time before before there's a robot two robots um welding the frames or
00:20:06
Speaker
It's all prefabricated stuff and it's just a house is built within two weeks. Yes, you know, it's just going to cut costs and yeah, and people will make the case. Oh, it's safer. There's less, you know. Yes, yes. So going back to your question, I think there are some professions where my, my
00:20:32
Speaker
gut feel is that they won't exist. Like accounting as a as a processing type of job will probably be converted into more of a business consulting type of career. Yes. Okay. So you won't go to an account to get your taxes done. It'll all be done through the ATO online system. Yes. And so that big chunk of work in an accounting firm may go.
00:21:01
Speaker
I think some engineering roles may be automated as well. Will there be new jobs, do you reckon, that will sort of be created to counteract that? Or do you think it will more just be, more people will have to kind of fight for similar job types in that area? Well, I think more jobs will be created to, or more jobs will be needed to create those systems and technology and machines.
00:21:31
Speaker
in order for that to happen. So I think there'll be new jobs created to support those new and emerging industries that are coming. So I'm not painting a really positive picture here, but I think it's important for people in their teens and early 20s when they're choosing courses to try and future-proof
00:22:02
Speaker
your job security because, you know, I guess if we think back like 30 years ago, there's probably jobs back then that were in hot demand, but we don't need them anymore.
00:22:14
Speaker
printing and publishing as an example, that industry's not dissipated pretty much. Yeah, in many ways. Journalism to some extent, you know, a lot of data entry work that someone would manually do is now being automated. And that digital age just some more kind of progresses. Yeah, so I think it's important to
00:22:33
Speaker
to think about the sort of bulletproof industry. So things that come to my mind, you know, engineering jobs will be there, health and medical jobs will be there. Marketing is always something that will be there, physio things, you know, that's part of the health sector. And the big one is obviously technology.
00:22:52
Speaker
Yeah, wow. And of course, COVID has definitely impacted small businesses. I guess we couldn't escape this discussion without talking about COVID and jobs. That's right. Yes. Would you recommend to secondary and tertiary students who are choosing a career pathway to consider that entrepreneur side of things and starting up online businesses? What would you kind of say to that? Oh, look, I would support that every day of the week.
00:23:20
Speaker
I think we only progress through innovation and entrepreneurship and people following their passions. So if you've got a side passion for sewing and you want to
00:23:38
Speaker
you know, create new designs and set up an e-commerce site and sell the clothes that you're making in your bedroom, you know, go for it. So definitely I think there's an argument to say follow that passion, you know, whether it's in designing like a new app.
00:23:57
Speaker
or making things better through technology, well, whatever it is that you're passionate about, I think young people should definitely push those boundaries. And I think if people would spend less time mucking around on social media and they spent some time following a passion project, I think that's a tremendous thing to do. At the same time, I think it's also good to stick to the standard. Things of going to school and uni and TAFE and getting a piece of paper, that's important.
00:24:26
Speaker
at the same time, definitely look at exploring new options because if you make it work, you could become a multimillionaire. For sure. Yeah, it can work out very well in your favor. That's right. Yes.
Gen Z Job Mobility and Double Degrees
00:24:41
Speaker
And Generation Z, which is, I guess, mainly between the age group, what we're talking about before that 16 to 25 years old, who are finishing school now or in the midst of their tertiary studies.
00:24:52
Speaker
or undertaking placements or yes, wherever they're at in that life between that 60 to 25 age. Do you have any statistics or data about the job mobility for this generation? The graduate employment rates are looking quite strong. And especially since COVID has impacted on the workforce in Australia and having access to skilled migrants that are coming in
00:25:20
Speaker
We have a big shortage of skilled professionals, so it's a fantastic time to be a graduate, I think in Australia, in any industry, because of the jobs that have to be filled. In terms of job mobility, I think a lot of employers now are much more flexible,
00:25:46
Speaker
in terms of your academic background. So for example, if you've studied engineering, you can move into consulting as a new pathway or engineering. I think big four banks would be interested in having engineers work in the analytics areas or their innovation areas.
00:26:13
Speaker
not all law graduates are moving into law positions, they're moving into policy or education. And so we are seeing more movement with that mobility, which is fantastic. And I think one of the important things for students to be able to be mobile with their career pathways is to choose like a double degree. So always combine
00:26:43
Speaker
Like a commerce with a science or an arts with a law. Yeah. Okay. Because you can, you can sort of hedge your bets a little bit. Yeah. So, you know, I think it's, it's also about venturing out into other learning platforms as well. Yes, definitely. More flexibility that way. So even if you have a commerce or a business degree or an arts degree or a law degree,
00:27:14
Speaker
If your hobby or your passion is in another area, let's say it's design or in some sort of healthcare discipline, there's nothing stopping you from doing additional online studies.
00:27:29
Speaker
through a platform like Coursera or Udemy or LinkedIn Learning, which is only going to enhance your mobility. Sure. I guess now let's just explore some of the top career choices for the sake of giving some examples about
00:27:44
Speaker
what kind of careers people usually go into when they're studying and just discuss these careers a little bit more in depth. So we'll just start with everyone's favourite medicine. What kinds of people would usually go into this kind of career? What are the common personality traits, do you reckon? Look, I do know personally really well relatives and people close to me who have pursued medicine and there are some traits
00:28:15
Speaker
that are common, some of which would be being really focused and determined and hardworking. One of my cousins is a radiologist, and I remember he's a little bit older than me, but when we were out going to birthday parties and dinners and having fun on the weekends, he was at home studying.
00:28:40
Speaker
And that's fairly typical. I think of people that pursue a medicine degree and when they specialize. So I think that having that real grit and determination and work ethic is vital. I don't have that. And I think driving that or underpinning that would be their motivation to help people as well.
00:29:10
Speaker
So it all comes from that desire to help people and treat people who are having issues or have some sort of health issues that are going on. So it's about, I think they have that,
00:29:37
Speaker
that desire to make people better and help people. What would you say about psychology? Are they similar traits to medicine or how does the personality differ in that sort of career? I think for people that want to get into those types of careers, whether it's nursing or
00:29:57
Speaker
physio or allied health. Again, it really comes down to wanting to work with people, help people make society a better place through mental health or physical health improvements. So I think, you know, it may be just like an intrinsic thing or something that's within them. Or perhaps a pair or an older cousin or someone they know has
00:30:27
Speaker
has worked in that field and that's what they're drawn to. So I think, again, I've got people close to me who are working in nursing and healthcare and they almost get a bit of a buzz. It's a hard shift, don't get me wrong. It's exhausting from what I've heard and what I've seen, but they just have this quality, which is, I really want to make a difference and help someone.
00:30:53
Speaker
Which is amazing. As long as you have the passion, the drive, you can literally go anywhere. Yes. That's right. Yep. Yes. And could you talk to us a little bit about the trend of the traditional profession, such as law and medicine and those kinds of fields? And if they are still very popular career choices or are there, I guess, other occupations that are emerging?
Traditional vs Emerging Career Fields
00:31:17
Speaker
Yeah, look, I think having worked at different universities, there still is a huge amount of demand for those blue chip degrees, whether it's the lab, commerce, medicine, engineering, and that's not going to go away. But what we'll probably see, which is probably happening a bit slower, but the universities, they have to keep
00:31:46
Speaker
in step with what's happening in industry. So we are seeing a slight shift where universities as an example they're offering degrees in cyber security because that's a huge necessity for any organization now to protect their systems and their data.
00:32:07
Speaker
Yes. The way that we treat people in allied health or in cancer treatment is also changing. Definitely. Research and development into infectious diseases now is shifting. So there'll always be a place for the traditional
00:32:32
Speaker
uh degrees but they will also have to evolve the way we the way that a student does an mbbs degree a medicine degree that will have to change as as we evolve law will have to change you know 20 years 20 years ago we probably didn't have you know laws to protect data privacy or cyber harassment and things like that
00:32:55
Speaker
For sure. And now, again, in technology, the emerging areas are saying data science and machine learning and cloud technology. So, you know, we might see some of these traditional degrees blending with some of these new contemporary courses, which I think has to happen.
00:33:24
Speaker
Yeah, evolution. Yeah, it is. I just hope that though that we see the universities and industry really coming together because they have to go hand in hand if the people working at all the big corporations and NGOs and
Choosing Flexible Degrees
00:33:44
Speaker
and other organizations are not communicating what what their pressing needs are when it comes to the labor force then we're in a bit of trouble but that's why what I was saying earlier for students is to choose like a degree that is going to future proof you
00:34:06
Speaker
but a degree that gives you the flexibility to pursue something in technology or something in creativity or finance so that you're covering
00:34:16
Speaker
not just one base, but maybe two or three. Yeah, for sure. Well, thank you so much, Naren, for, you know, joining us on the episode today.
Closing Remarks and Contact Information
00:34:23
Speaker
We've got so much wisdom and it's absolutely amazing. We'll link in the show notes, of course, your website. So yes, it definitely, if anyone is listening to this episode today and has questions or would like to bring a consultation with your team, how would they be able to reach you? Sure. Just visit Career Success Australia.
00:34:43
Speaker
you can send us an inquiry or follow us on social media we're always posting really
00:34:50
Speaker
funky tips on whether it's to do with resume writing or job interview tips and things like that and uh yeah certainly follow us on on social media and and get in touch if uh if you're feeling a bit lost we're happy to help yeah nice and we'll link that all in the show notes so they don't have to stress about you know trying to find it beautiful thank you so much really appreciate your time thanks for having me and marie appreciate it no worries awesome see you later bye
00:35:16
Speaker
Alrighty guys, that is all from us today at All Things Education and if you liked this episode, definitely be sure to let us know. Don't forget to subscribe to this podcast on your favourite platform and remember the advice given on this channel and on our socials is general information only. If you have any specific personal, health, wellbeing or educational issues,
00:35:38
Speaker
Reach out to a professional such as your GP, school counsellor or just a trusted person in your life before making any final decisions. Please do not take this episode as specific personal advice, but hopefully you now have some more information about the topic you listened to today and you recognise that there are so many pathways that you can take after you've finished your secondary education. And you don't even have to finish your secondary education to do what you love at the end.
00:36:01
Speaker
Alright, thanks again for tuning into the All Things Education podcast. I'm your host, Mary Colburn. For more tips and tricks, check out our Instagram, at allthingseducation21. And if you're interested in finding out more about Career Success Australia, and Naren and his team, check out the show notes for his website and his Instagram. Alright guys, thanks so much for tuning into All Things Education. See you next time.