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Career Series: ATARs don't Matter!
138 Plays3 years ago
In this episode we are tackling the subject of ATARs! We speak with special guest stars Adele, Daniel, Claire, Daniel (yes, a different one!), Grainne, Elisha, Jericho, and Jacinta about their ATARs and the courses they are pursuing this year. We want to emphasise how ATARs are important to get into your course, but the number should not define you or your value.
We discuss:
- What is an ATAR
- The academic pressure in school
- The stress of ATARs
- How you can do what you love without an ATAR
- The limited importance of ATARs
- ... and so much more!
Sound effects obtained from Zapslat.com
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Transcript
00:00:00
Speaker
you
Introduction and Apology
00:00:11
Speaker
Hello everyone and welcome to the All Things Education podcast where we learn tips and tricks to reach our full potential in secondary and tertiary education. I'm your host Mary Coleman and I just wanted to say a quick apology for not releasing an episode last week. It was a little bit hectic but that's okay we're releasing an episode
The Unimportance of ATARs
00:00:30
Speaker
now. Today in this episode we actually are going to be talking about the unimportance of ATARs.
00:00:36
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Yes, you heard me right. Getting into this episode because we are going to be furthering our conversation that we had with Naren on the previous episode where we were talking about the different pathways that you can take throughout your secondary and tertiary education. And we've got some really special guests on the show today and I'm really, really excited for you guys to hear from them. So yeah, let's just get educated. Let's get right into it. Alrighty, guys.
Understanding the ATAR System
00:01:02
Speaker
So first off, I just wanted to quickly explain
00:01:05
Speaker
what ATARs are. So if you guys aren't really familiar with the concept of an ATAR, it is basically a number that ranges from 0 to 99.95 and it is essentially a scale, a ranking system of your academic achievements into a number and that basically places you in a certain ranking, I guess, order that helps you get into the desired course that you want to be getting into. So
00:01:36
Speaker
If you are wanting to go into university and you are living in Australia, the ATAR is something that you might want to be considering and trying to do well in. So basically the closer to 99.95 that you get is the better your achievements have been. So if you are consistently getting A pluses in every single assessment test,
00:02:03
Speaker
exam that you're doing and 100% in all your tests, right? Theoretically, you should be getting 99.95, but here's the twist. Since there are so many other people that are in the same state as you, that are also competing with you and getting good grades as well, you are, yes, you're competing against the people who are getting similar grades to you. So let's say two people both got
00:02:33
Speaker
full A pluses, 100% in all their tests, all of that, right? They're ATARs you would think would be the same, but sometimes you've got elements like scaling and subject scaling that can alter the grades that you get. So even though you might be getting A pluses, it really does depend on what subject you're doing, because if you're doing what is considered an easiest subject,
00:02:58
Speaker
For example, maybe more of an art or humanities compared to a science or a maths. Sometimes the science and the maths has more weighting, therefore your grade might get bumped up because you're doing a subject that is considered slightly harder or more academic. Anyway, that's just a little rundown. Please do not quote me on all of that. That is my understanding of how ATARs work and kind of a general idea about that.
Are ATARs a Big Deal?
00:03:25
Speaker
definitely please speak to your course coordinator, your year-level coordinator, your favorite teacher that has an understanding about ATARs and all of that, just so you can sort of get a more specific idea about it for your particular circumstance and where you're sitting at with your grades and whatnot. So yes, please don't quote me on that, but that is just a general rundown just so the people out there that don't really have an interest of maybe an ATARs or just
00:03:52
Speaker
kind of confused that is generally my understanding of it and that's a very personal understanding so please definitely go and speak to someone that does have more knowledge on it um but yes just giving you the rundown for now. So the whole point of this podcast episode is to really emphasize the fact that those ATARs actually don't matter so it's such a crazy statement to say and of course
00:04:18
Speaker
this is my personal opinion so again if the ATAR is something that is super valuable to you and it just holds a lot of meaning for you and you want to get a really great number in the end then that's totally fine I'm just sharing my personal view about the fact that I don't really think ATARs are a big deal and
00:04:36
Speaker
I know that in my high school there was a lot of stress and importance placed on these ATARs, and when it comes down to it, you are honestly not defined by a number. And let me just tell you now that there are so many people that I'm about to share with you guys who have not got the best ATARs, have chosen not to get ATARs at all, or have got amazing ATARs. It does not matter. They've all gotten to the course they wanted in the end.
00:04:58
Speaker
that is definitely what matters most. So you guys probably are aware that for my ATAR I got 97.40. Now that is obviously a great ATAR, a great number to get. I got into the course I wanted and that is all that mattered to me. In fact I actually didn't even use my ATAR to get into the course I wanted. I needed at least a 97.25 to get into the course that I'm studying currently but I actually apply with my year 11 results because
00:05:29
Speaker
The university that I wanted to be going with, they said that you can actually use your year 11 grades due to the fact that in year 12 you might be affected by COVID. So I took advantage of that and I applied with my year 11 grades. I needed like three A's to get into the course that I wanted to. And that basically gave me guaranteed entry into a course where I hadn't even finished year 12 yet. I was only halfway through year 12. So that took a lot of pressure off me and I was able just to really enjoy my time in year 12.
00:05:58
Speaker
Still, of course, try heaps to get into the course that I wanted to get into, just in case I wasn't sure if I was going to get in with my year 11 grades. But I had a pretty solid idea that I would be getting in with the grades that I got in year 11. Okay, enough talk about me. Let's move on a little bit.
Personal Stories and Experiences
00:06:16
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So I've asked some of my close friends to record themselves telling me their name, the ATAR they received, if any, and what they are studying now in 2022.
00:06:27
Speaker
Hopefully you guys will get a bit of an idea about how ATARs are really just not important in the sense that some people don't even remember their ATARs when I asked them, others didn't even need them for the course that they wanted to be studying, and some of them chose not to get an ATAR. And this really just goes to show that as long as you guys end up doing what you love in the end, it's totally fine to not get the best ATAR.
00:06:48
Speaker
because the ATAR does not define you. It's just a number. And I know that probably sounds really cringy and you've probably heard it heaps of times from so many different people, but it is so true. Okay, enough ranting. Let's jump right into it. So each guest is going to be telling us their name, the ATAR that they got and what they are studying this year, if anything. Okay, let's hear from our first guest. Hi, my name is Adele and I got an ATAR of 65.30 and I'm going to be studying psychology.
00:07:17
Speaker
Okay, I know straight up for a fact, psychology is a very competitive course to get into. I know that for the advanced psychology course, the ATAR was around 97.25 as the average grade for that course. So for her to get 65.3 and still get into psychology, whether that was the advanced course or not, that is an amazing achievement. Generally, as a rule of thumb, most people know that the ATARs can sometimes slightly alter depending on how popular
00:07:46
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that course was every year.
00:07:48
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It's a little bit hard to explain because I don't know the whole workings of it. But basically, if a lot of people choose one particular course, the ATAR is going to increase so that less people can get into that course because it becomes more of a competitive course to get into. And that gives a great explanation as to why some courses like medicine has a minimum ATAR of 95 to be even considered for that course. Now, I'm not saying everyone that gets an ATAR over 95 gets into medicine because there are other factors like the UCAT that come into play.
00:08:18
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But what I am saying is that the ATAR is so high generally because it is quite a popular course that people want to undertake. But if you think about it, there are some courses that have an even higher ATAR score that you need to be getting to get into that course. And that generally is based upon the popularity of that course, as well as other factors like the difficulty of the course, etc.
00:08:38
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But anyway, the point being that Adele's ATAR score did not hinder her from getting into the psychology course that she wanted to, and I'm not exactly sure what ATAR you were supposed to get for that particular course that she undertook, but she obviously has done well enough that she's able to get into the course that she wants to, and I'm sure she's really successful now. Okay, let's move on to our next guest.
00:08:59
Speaker
Hey my name is Daniel, I got a GPA of 90.5 and I did a year of aerospace and mechanical engineering but then I switched to agricultural science.
00:09:11
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This is another perfect example. So like Adele, he should be very proud of his ATAR. It is a great achievement to get a score of 90.5. And with that score, Daniel was actually able to take it and get into aerospace and mechanical engineering. I'm sure there were other prerequisite subjects that he had to complete, potentially a maths or a science, something that is related to engineering, right? And engineering, let's face it, it's actually a pretty hard subject. And I'm sure that Daniel would have had to work really hard to get into that course.
00:09:40
Speaker
And Daniel stuck around doing that course for a year, right? He spent time learning about the preliminary knowledge in that course. Then he probably decided, hey, this isn't for me. Whatever his decision was, maybe he decided that I don't really like the content that I'm learning, or it's too easy, or it's too hard, or it's just not where I want to go in terms of my career pathway. Whatever his decision was, he decided to not do it and actually transition into agricultural sciences.
00:10:04
Speaker
Now, this is actually kind of a completely different pathway. It's a completely different course. Maybe there are some relatable aspects in the two different courses, but overall, it's a different area that he's learning about. And that is perfectly fine. And actually, so many people do that. I know many friends who have actually done a year of their course realize this isn't for me anymore and done a different course.
00:10:24
Speaker
If you're listening to this episode today and you're sort of thinking, hey, I don't really think I like the course I'm doing anymore, just stick at it till the end of the year, just like Daniel has done and then make your decision. If you want to further your studies in whatever course you're currently doing, great. But as long as you stick around to the end of the year, you can get a real taste of just like the basic and foundational knowledge of that course. So you get a bit of an idea about what might be studied in the future and always check the course guide as well, because that's going to give you some hints about what you're going to be studying in the future years.
00:10:52
Speaker
What I think is really important to know everyone is just the fact that Daniel did not need his ATAR to get into the second course he wanted to. So even though he used his ATAR to get into aerospace and mechanical engineering, he simply just changed his course and went into agricultural sciences after the end of his first year. His grades evidently proved that he was smart enough to change courses and to take a different path, but he didn't need to apply his ATAR to get into the same course.
00:11:19
Speaker
Okay, I just wanted to take a little moment and just acknowledge the fact that I am being a little bit hypocritical here because if you guys stick around to the very ends of my episodes, you'll usually hear me say the content in this episode is not curated specifically for you and your circumstance and make sure you always go speak to someone who understands your situation you're going through and can help you on a more personal level.
00:11:40
Speaker
something along those lines, right? So it's a bit ironic because I'm giving you guys a bunch of specific examples for specific people in specific circumstances, getting specific ATARs. And it's a bit ironic of me because I'm always saying, you know, don't take this as a specific circumstance. But I hope you guys get what I mean because I'm more trying to say don't take this as a particular circumstance.
00:12:01
Speaker
for your situation. So even though we are using very particular examples from unique individuals who are experiencing, you know, I guess a particular situation, it's not your situation and not your unique life. So hopefully from these examples, you guys are gonna get a bit of an idea about what other people have done in their study life. So then you can kind of reflect on that and think about the ways that you could implement actions after hearing what other people have done.
00:12:29
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Now again, I'm not saying that you should implement these actions to the T. Always speak to someone who understands you and knows your story and can see it from your perspective. Okay, now that that disclosure and little apology is all done, let's hear from our next guest.
Choosing Passion Over ATAR Scores
00:12:45
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My name's Claire. I got an ATAR of 86 and I'm set to start studying my Bachelor of Nursing degree. Okay, so Claire also has a little bit of backstory about the ATAR that she got and the ATAR that she was supposed to get. So give this one a bit of a listen.
00:12:59
Speaker
I spent the whole year stressing about my ATAR worried I was gonna get below 75 and like I tried my hardest and I still like burnt myself out working hard and stressing. Okay you literally just heard Claire herself. She said that she was so stressed that she wasn't gonna get an ATAR over 75 so she just tried so hard and burnt herself out. Burnout in your final years of school is the worst. You have no energy and no motivation at all.
00:13:26
Speaker
and it's terrible if you can't pick yourself up and get out of that burnout zone. U12 is stressful for so many different people because people want to do well and they want to achieve great grades and prove to themselves, their family, their friends, their peers that they are good enough and they can achieve great grades if they put effort into it. And having that fear that you are not going to get a high enough ATAR to get into the course that you are passionate about and love,
00:13:50
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is literally the worst thing. But listen to what Claire says next.
00:14:11
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So in the end, she got an ATAR of 86. That is so amazing. Considering that for nursing, you needed to get an ATAR of 75 at the particular university she was applying at. Claire even mentions the fact that she knows people who got an ATAR below 75.
00:14:27
Speaker
and still got into nursing. How great is that? That just proves the point. You don't even need a high enough ATAR to get into the course that you want to do. We spoke about this in a previous episode with Justina. You may remember her. She applied for medicine. And she also mentioned the fact that even if you don't get into the course that you want to, there are so many different other pathways that you can enter into to get into the desired course that you want to in the end.
00:14:51
Speaker
And we also spent an entire episode with Naren talking about the many different pathways that you can enter into as well. So guys, I hope you're getting a little bit of an idea now that ATARS, yes, they are important and they do hold significance to get into the course you want, but I promise you they are not the be all and end all of whatever you want to do in tertiary education, if you want to pursue tertiary education at all. All right, let's hear from our next guest.
00:15:15
Speaker
I'm Daniel, I got an ATAR of 78.60 and I'm studying a Bachelor of Ministry. Okay, we're hearing from our second Daniel in the episode today, funny that. And he got an ATAR of 78.60. This is once more an incredible achievement. He should be really, really proud of himself for getting such an amazing score. I think it's pretty obvious and I don't need to say a lot about Daniel because he's gotten into the course that he wanted to. He worked hard and he got the ATAR that he needed.
00:15:44
Speaker
to get into that course. One thing I will say is that I know Daniel will really love this course that he's doing. It's something he is obviously passionate about or he takes an interest in. And I think that by pursuing this course in ministry, he's going to develop a lot of skills and knowledge that he needs further later in life.
00:16:01
Speaker
So I think the take home message from this example is really just to choose a course that you know will benefit you later on in life. Whether it is to benefit you to get into the career that you want to benefit you so that you have these skills that you can further apply in the future or if it's to benefit you just so it's another topic that you can learn about and you just have knowledge in this area of interest.
00:16:21
Speaker
I think I need to take a moment here and just define what I mean by the unimportance of ATARs. What I mean by this is the fact that, particularly at the school I was at, ATARs were made of such a huge importance. All the teachers would talk about it, parents would talk about it, friends would talk about it. There was this massive hype and pressure about getting a good ATAR. The second that I entered university, though,
00:16:45
Speaker
not a single person asked me about my ATAR. And that's what I mean by the unimportance of the ATAR is the fact that yes it is important in the sense that you need it to get into your course and it is a very important score that you need to get to pursue the course that you want to get into, right? But after that it doesn't matter and it should be nothing more than a score that you need to get into the course you want. It should not define you.
00:17:08
Speaker
It should not be an indicator of what social group you belong to at school, or university for that matter. It should not be what your parents think of you. And under any circumstances should it not define your value as a person. With that being said, let's move on to our next guest. Hi, my name's Granya and I got a 97.4 ATAR, which I use to get into my law and arts course majoring in politics. Okay, so Granya, an amazing score, amazing ATAR. Again, should be super, super proud.
00:17:37
Speaker
I hope you guys are getting the gist now hearing the examples. So she got into a law and arts degree majoring in politics. This I know for a fact again is a very competitive course. It would have a very high ATAR because the popularity of this course is significantly higher because everyone wants to do a law and arts degree. It is the perfect combination and majoring with politics that is even better. So naturally the ATAR for this course would be
00:18:03
Speaker
extremely high. And it is absolutely wonderful that Granya is able to get a 97.4 ATAR. If you're on Samboas Granya in the sense that you got a great ATAR and you got into the course that you wanted to be going into, then that is absolutely wonderful and congratulations. I know that Granya worked really really hard in year 12 and she tried her very best and of course that is reflected in the ATAR that she got. Again,
00:18:26
Speaker
She merely used her ATAR as a means of getting into her course. She definitely does not let it define her under any circumstance. And because of that, she's able to take the ATAR as just a number. It's just getting into her course and she's satisfied with that. And she can move on. And speaking of moving on, let's move on to our next guest.
Exploring Alternative Educational Paths
00:18:44
Speaker
My name's Alicia O'Day. I did not get an ATAR and I'm studying to be a hairdresser.
00:18:49
Speaker
I absolutely love this example, guys. Alicia is brilliant because she said to herself, you know what? I want to become a hairdresser. So why bother getting an ATAR if I don't even need it in the first place? So she didn't get one. How awesome, right?
00:19:04
Speaker
And if you're considering to undertake a career where you don't need an ATAR, you don't need to get one. But just don't take my advice as like the advice that you need to be applying into your life right now. Go speak to someone that you know, like I said, time and time again. Obviously, there are other things that Alicia will have to be doing to become a qualified hairdresser. Potentially go to some sort of school or a TAFE or learn some sort of practical way of, you know, becoming a hairdresser. But hey, she didn't need the ATAR, so I get the ATAR. Alrighty, let's move on to the next person.
00:19:33
Speaker
Hey, I'm Jericho. I got 79 ATAR and I'm studying teaching. Okay, again, another example and another great ATAR that we can share with you guys. So a 79 ATAR is brilliant, right?
00:19:46
Speaker
And a massive congratulations goes out to Jericho for achieving such a great ATAR and, you know, working hard. But the most important thing? He's doing what he loves. Teaching. So what more can I say? If you get the ATAR that you need to get into your course and it doesn't affect you in any other way that you don't become, you know, like attached to the ATAR. It doesn't become a part of you and a part of your value and a part of who you are as a person. Then the ATAR is just the ATAR and it becomes unimportant in the sense that it's just a means of getting into your course. Okay. And our last guest, let's hear from her.
00:20:16
Speaker
Hey my name is Jacinta and I ended up getting a 92.5 ATAR last year but this year I'm going to be doing a Diploma of Leadership and Internship and then next year I hope to go to university and study occupational therapy. There is so much to talk about from Jacinta's example here so she got an ATAR of 92.5. Once again such an incredible ATAR
00:20:41
Speaker
and she should be super proud of herself at her achievements and how hard she worked throughout year 12. This is such a great example because Jacinta is not doing a Bachelor of, you know, something this year, but she's actually choosing to do it next year. So next year she'll be doing a Bachelor of Occupational Therapy, but this year she's chosen to do a Diploma of Leadership and Internship, which is a great option to take because it's that much more relaxed and it's a different option instead of going straight into university, or any other tertiary studies for that matter.
00:21:10
Speaker
If any of you listeners are considering taking a gap year or working for a year or doing whatever you want before heading into your tertiary studies, I think a diploma is a great method to take because it still keeps you busy, you're still studying, you're still learning but it is an excellent choice to take because you're really able to continue developing your knowledge but also you have time to work and enjoy life with your friends and all of the above.
00:21:32
Speaker
So definitely consider doing a diploma or some sort of TAFE study or some sort of online study if you are still interested in studying and keeping up and building your knowledge, but you want to have a bit more of a relaxer before you head into university or some more intense tertiary studies.
00:21:47
Speaker
Okay everyone, that is actually all from us today at All Things Education and if you liked this episode, be sure to let us know. Don't forget to subscribe to this podcast on your favourite platform by hitting the follow button on Spotify or on Apple Podcasts and hit the notification button so you'll always be in the know about how to succeed in your education.
00:22:04
Speaker
Please remember, and you probably already know this already, but the advice given on this channel and on our socials is general information only. If you have any specific personal, health, wellbeing or educational issues, please reach out to a professional such as your GP, school counsellor or a trusted person in your life before making any final decisions. Please do not take this episode as specific personal advice, and hopefully you now have more information about the topic you've listened to today.
00:22:30
Speaker
I cannot tell you how excited I am right now for next week's episode. We're going to be speaking to someone from Melbourne who is a lecturer and mum of two among many other titles. She is going to give us some amazing motivation about how to survive school and university. So get keen for that episode next Sunday at 4pm. Alright everyone.
00:22:51
Speaker
Stay tuned for next week. I'm your host, Mary Coleman. For more tips and tricks, check out our Instagram at allthingseducation21. Stay educated everyone and see you next time.