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#2: This is one of those dirty secrets people don’t want to talk about.
169 Plays7 years ago
Series host and Chief Safety Officer Jill James talks to her good friend Brandy, a 10-year veteran safety professional from the mid-west. The conversation shares tips for earning credibility with employees (hint: recipe cards), the challenge of proving yourself to management in new environments, and how good it feels to finally get the win that helps. You’ll hear the word “trust” a lot, and learn why keeping your hands dirty with the workforce is a must. Also, how exposing management to hazardous working environments can be the right eye-opener. Beyond her career evolution, Brandy discusses her approach to safety management, what it’s like to take the job home with you each night, and reveals a deeper motivation. From the perils of beet sugar production to leading an industry-wide safety committee, this episode will connect with wherever you are on the occupational safety journey.
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Transcript
Introduction to Podcast and Guest
00:00:10
Speaker
This is the Accidental Safety Pro, brought to you by Vivid Learning Systems and the Health and Safety Institute, episode number two. My name is Jill James, Vivid's Chief Safety Officer, and today I'm joined by our guest, Brandy, a fellow friend in safety. Brandy's from the Midwest and is currently a safety director at a sugar beet processing facility. Welcome, Brandy, and thanks for talking with me today.
00:00:36
Speaker
Certainly. Thanks for having me.
Brandy's Career Journey in Safety
00:00:38
Speaker
So Brandi, first question, how many years about have you been working in the safety field? Boy, I should know that off the top of my head. Let's go with about 10. About 10 years. And a handful of years before that in environmental. Wow. Okay. So well over a decade of experience now.
00:01:00
Speaker
Yes. So the central question for each of these podcasts is for safety professionals like you and I to share how we got into safety because none of our paths seem to be a direct route. However, today, let's ease into your story, taking it bit by bit as my favorite author, Anne Lamott, suggests as we tackle stories.
Educational Background and Early Career Aspirations
00:01:26
Speaker
So Brandi, you have a college degree or degrees. What's your major and how did you pick it? Sure. I started in my undergrad with environmental science. And initially, I started working in the DNR program, so natural resources, thinking I would tromp around in the woods and
00:01:44
Speaker
and love the outdoors in Minnesota here. But I soon realized that I probably didn't want to only make $20,000 a year. So in changing my plans, I still focused in environmental and really looked at the industrial side of
00:02:01
Speaker
how to protect the environment. So that's basically how I started my career in an environmental compliance role. I was fortunate enough to get into a company where environmental health and safety was all one department and so right off the bat I had exposure to safety through the peers that I worked with every day.
00:02:20
Speaker
Yeah. And so in that, in that first job, environmental health and safety, what did you, what did you think of the safety pieces? Like, were you picking it up as you went? Or did you think, oh, I'm sort of interested in that? Or nah, that seems kind of boring. Funny, you should ask. So my first job after school was in the aerospace and military support industry.
00:02:45
Speaker
And I recall very vividly one of the first times in a 7,000 acre facility that produced small caliber ammunition. And walking through that facility in the different departments and the different expectations around safety, it was intense. It was very intense and not really having a lot of industrial experience prior to that. When they handed me a copper pole that I needed to drag on the floor to stay grounded,
00:03:14
Speaker
Oh my gosh. It really opened my eyes to the reality and exposure and the hazards that these people work in every single day.
00:03:22
Speaker
And while my focus was learning the technical aspects of environmental compliance for this industry, it certainly was interwoven with safety through and through. So I continued to focus on environmental, but every time I was in a facility to audit them or to support them in whatever manner, it had a ton of safety-related components as well. Yeah, so as you're dragging the copper rod around,
00:03:50
Speaker
And every time you went back to those kind of facilities, did the safety piece sort of call out to you? Like, this seems really maybe more intriguing than I'm doing right now. Or how is that feeling in you?
Shift from Technical to Safety-Focused Roles
00:04:02
Speaker
Oh, it was funny because initially I was super engaged with learning in the environmental arena.
00:04:08
Speaker
I mean, new career, learning the piece, that that was my role. I was really engaged. But after two to three years, I kind of started getting bored with the technical permits and the stuff and started really focusing on the people piece and how I could coach them.
00:04:27
Speaker
I was in more of a corporate role and supported about 35 manufacturing sites throughout the United States. So as I started becoming comfortable in my technical expertise,
00:04:39
Speaker
I started transitioning from the stuff piece and caring more about the people piece. And as my career blossomed and I changed jobs, I stayed in environmental for my second job, but found that, again, the people piece called out to me much more so than the technical aspects of wastewater and
00:05:01
Speaker
hazardous waste and air emissions. So it pulled on me, basically. And everywhere I went, I had that opportunity to really engage in the safety area. So when did you make that transition into safety from environmental? Was it in job number two?
00:05:19
Speaker
It was in job number two slash three. So job number two had an upheaval in the environmental department. I worked for a large retail company where there were challenges and they chose to kind of blow up the environmental department, which I sat in.
00:05:37
Speaker
And I was able to maintain a job with them under a project management scope, which was OK for the time being, but really had no passion for it. So fortunately enough, I started my master's degree when I was in job number two. And that master's degree was out of the University of Minnesota Twin Cities for public health.
00:05:58
Speaker
with a focus on occupational health and safety. And so as I started working through that that classwork and building my more formal credentials in safety, I was able to get job number three, which, you know, I sound like a job jumper, but no, not at all. Six, seven years, you've had a transition, right? The opportunities arise, you take them.
00:06:21
Speaker
I think that sort of started with some of the Gen Xers, and it's certainly very common with millennials right now. Right. I'm a tweener, so I'm a little bit of both of those. Job number three, I finished my master's degree in, but I was fortunate enough to get an environmental health and safety, which 90% of that job was safety.
00:06:45
Speaker
supporting, again, about 23 facilities that produce corn or soybeans. So kind of changing out of retail and back into that manufacturing setting, which I actually found much more rewarding.
00:07:00
Speaker
So when you decided to go back to grad school and earn your master's degree, how did you discover that you wanted to focus on
Skill Diversification in Rural Settings
00:07:10
Speaker
safety? Was it some of what you had been gleaning from those first two jobs that helped you make that decision?
00:07:15
Speaker
I would say, again, recognizing the people piece felt much more appropriate for me to be focused on was one big thing. But then, in all reality, it seems like when you job search in environmental or safety, it's traditionally globbed together, environmental health and safety. And I knew in my future I would be moving to a rural area.
00:07:38
Speaker
just based on my family dynamics. And I thought, how am I going to be most successful? I still enjoy the environmental aspects. I didn't necessarily want to get that piece up completely. And how am I going to be successful in promoting myself in a rural area? And I really felt that third job transition, it opened up the door for me to get into safety
00:08:05
Speaker
more holistically and it also opened up that door because of an egg-based company. So finding a way to be successful in the goal of moving to a rural area was a big decision factor going back to school and of building out my resume for safety as well.
00:08:24
Speaker
Right. So you diversified your portfolio based on what you assumed would be the opportunities in the geographic area where you're going. Boy, you summarized that better than I did. Good job. I'm listening today. I'm taking it in. Thank you. So here you are then in the agricultural setting with, did you say the grain industry?
00:08:47
Speaker
in the grains. So a seed industry basically. So soybeans and corn. Yeah. And so was that kind of one of the first opportunities you had to really dig into this people piece that seems to be what your passion is at this point in your career anyway? Yes. I mean, I had the opportunity to go out and hear and see how people really had needed to apply themselves in the job. And that industry has some older facilities.
00:09:18
Speaker
We had to problem solve around a lot of different things that really required you to work with the folks on the floor. And there, too, it fed that passion of looking at this person who could be my dad, my brother, my sister, whomever.
00:09:34
Speaker
and saying, I don't want them to get hurt. I don't want them to struggle at work the way maybe sometimes people do. And the safety piece is always good to look at and take away at least that struggle. If you can start with taking away that from their everyday concerns, I really think that it's a good place to start, a good place to put some energy.
Building Trust and Safety Culture
00:10:01
Speaker
Right. And it helps with their buy-in and believability into the work that you're doing on their behalf as well, if they can authentically feel that. Absolutely. And I'll tell you what, the people, the men and women I work with in that position and the one I'm in today, they know what they're doing. They know their business best. And if I can put my listening ears on and truly hear what they're saying and try to understand the day-to-day complexities that they face,
00:10:30
Speaker
I'm much better off and I'm much more believable and committed to what it is that we can do to change and improve the situation.
00:10:38
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's a really important piece. I want you to bring us up to speed on kind of where you went next, but let's just focus for a second on how you did that because I think other safety professionals listening will want to hear a little bit about, like, how do you go about engaging in those conversations with your employees? Like, what's your approach that how do you become that trusted advisor to them that they want to tell you about their job and their work? How do you enter into that?
00:11:08
Speaker
You know, this world is so busy, and especially in the position I'm at today, I feel like there's so much work that I could be doing behind a computer screen. But just give them the time. I mean, honestly, give them focused time is a big thing where you're not checking the clock and, you know, yeah, I got five minutes for you or minimizing what they have to say. I think another big piece is learning who you're working with from a personal aspect.
00:11:36
Speaker
and showing some genuine care as a human being, everybody has things going on in life. And you can celebrate the good things in their life, whether it be a new baby or marriage or
00:11:50
Speaker
grandchild, whatever might be, a new cabin or hobby that they're excited about, or really being that person that says, hey, I see you're not your normal self, how are you doing? Getting the time to actually process as a person first, I'll tell you what, that goes a long way. And if you don't even talk about safety in that conversation,
00:12:09
Speaker
they remember that. When you do come back to ask their opinions or to ask about their position and the challenges they face or the good things that they face in regards to safety, they're willing to open up so much quicker and that wall of your management or your, you know, you don't know what I have to go through really comes down. Right, right. But I think you have to be sincere and that sometimes is hard when you have so much on your plate and you feel like you've got to run to the next
00:12:38
Speaker
thing. Yeah. And when, when you have those relationships built, I think at least it also makes it easier for the employees to come to you as when, when something's going sideways or when they have a concern, they're not like, I don't know if I could talk to her about that or, you know, they're not going to make a difference anyway. So why would I, you know, I feel like people are more apt than to reach back to you when you build those relationships.
00:13:04
Speaker
I wholeheartedly agree. Another major component in what you're talking about is consistency so that they know what they're going to get from you. So don't waver on that consistency. Don't treat people differently. And that's sometimes hard to do because some folks you have a better relationship with or you just have more in common.
00:13:25
Speaker
maintain that consistency amongst people. And you have to also, the other piece that's really important is making sure that follow through is kept up. So when you say you're going to do something, you better do something because they remember everything you don't do. Right. Yeah, do not over promise and under deliver. So true. So true. And so hard. Well, and again, you walk around even with a notepad and writing it down. And that
00:13:54
Speaker
visualization that they see that you're taking the time to even write it down, that it matters enough that it hit your notepad is an indicator to them that you're taking it serious and that you believe in what they're telling you and that you're going to investigate and understand it further. So I think that that effort goes a really long way.
00:14:14
Speaker
That people piece in making those connections, a real early mentor, I had somebody I barely knew, but I learned something from him. I was doing an internship after grad school and it happened to be at the Department of Military Affairs. And there was this general that would come and visit the installation that I was working at as a civilian. And he would know everything about all of the people that he was talking to.
00:14:41
Speaker
And people were always like, how does the, I mean this general, he's like, there's like a lot of people in all of these areas. Like how could he possibly know some of these details about people? And the general had this little secret. He kept recipe cards.
00:14:56
Speaker
on individuals that he was going to be talking with. And when he had met with someone, he had like their name down and then he wrote down little tips about them. Like, you know, daughter has a soccer game or, you know, some, some fact about their family or some situation or a clue into the conversation they had. So the next time he arrived at a place, he'd take out his little cards. He'd be studying before he arrived at the location so he could kind of pick up where he left off.
00:15:23
Speaker
And it was his way of doing that because humans being what they are when we have lots and lots of people to manage. He didn't have the bandwidth to memorize everyone's story, but he had enough clues for himself to pick up with people. And I thought, wow, what a great idea.
00:15:39
Speaker
that is so funny because in my time working in safety the one thing I really try to do is at least remember their name and sometimes I get it wrong and they laugh at me and that's okay and I remind them I've got like 400 people to remember they got like one you know but it right
00:15:56
Speaker
In regards to recipe cards, one thing that has worked for me, and I used this a lot when I was traveling more and supporting several facilities because I did confuse who was where and what their background story was. If you use your contacts in Outlook, you can add notes to people's names. And I would start putting notes just like that general where you write down three kids or the names of their spouse or whatever is really important to them.
00:16:24
Speaker
And I would check my contact list before going to that plant because otherwise it all mishmashes together. I do the same. That's an electronics way. It's the new way to do that. That was a story of something I learned probably, oh gee, maybe 20 years ago.
00:16:41
Speaker
It works. It does work. It does work. Because you know what? When somebody talks to you about your family or whatever matters to you, you realize that they care about you. Exactly. There's effort in that. Exactly. And we all appreciate that. We all appreciate that. So you're in that job and how long were you there and then when did you make your next transition?
Career Transition Closer to Family
00:17:04
Speaker
You know I was only there for about two and a half years and the position I'm in today opened up and it was close to my husband's family farm so that was kind of the direction we knew we were going to move back out to this rural area and I basically just
00:17:22
Speaker
have the search engine open, if you will, for any type of environmental health and safety job in that area, because it really never came up. But maybe once a year, something might interest me that was within an hour of the farm. And so when this position opened, I threw my name in the hat, not really thinking anything of it. And I really wasn't quite ready to leave the job that I was in. But the opportunity was too great.
00:17:48
Speaker
And I went through the interview process and was awarded the job and I looked at my husband and said, well, there's a lot of challenges there. Are you ready to help me get things going out that way? And he said, let's do it. Let's move. It's what our family plan was. And it just happened a little bit quicker than I thought it would.
00:18:09
Speaker
Right. Right. And so in your work today, is it kind of a balance between safety and health or is it more safety or how is that? Are you still using both skillsets? No. In fact, I would say I really support environmental from the sheer fact that I see things
00:18:31
Speaker
that maybe are concerning. And then I tell the environmental department about that. And so my role is strictly focused on employee safety, whether that be a temporary employee, a union employee, a management employee. So where I'm at today has a ton of variables and it makes the job really interesting. And you have more than one location that you're supporting as well, right?
00:18:55
Speaker
Yes, so we have a processing facility here in Minnesota and then there's also a sugar processing plant in Southern California and a seed production facility for sugar beets in Sheridan, Wyoming.
00:19:11
Speaker
Oh, so you get to, you get to travel around, but you also have employees. Yeah, right. And, and so with this job, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you've told me before you actually have, it's more than just you with safety. You do have some other people supporting your work, especially in those other locations, right?
00:19:32
Speaker
Yes, and it has been a wild ride. I've been here now five and a half years, and the department has transitioned dramatically. When I came on board, there was one other employee with a safety responsibility.
00:19:49
Speaker
And they were an entry-level union employee. Basically, you could bid into that job so there was no tech skill sets to support what I had them doing. But the role was there, and they were a tremendous help because that position supports all the inspections that are required. And in a facility that is over a section,
00:20:09
Speaker
in size, it's a lot of ground to cover. So that person does all of the fire extinguisher inspections every month, the eye washes weekly, and so forth and so forth, as many of us know, there's a ton of inspections. But since I started, I've also been able to get an environmental manager underneath
00:20:28
Speaker
and another union employee that does support all of the heavy equipment training. So the department has grown and it's been really, really awesome to see that kind of support from the company and investment and safety recognition that there's just a lot to do when you've got a facility like this.
00:20:51
Speaker
Right. And so everyone who is listening to this, who's a sole operator is now suddenly totally jealous that you have people to help you in some of those areas. And it sounds like you had to build consensus for that to be able to have support to get that help. Was that a huge challenge for you? How did you go about getting some of those other positions in place?
00:21:17
Speaker
Okay, that's a fair question and I feel very fortunate having the support here.
Advocating for Safety Resources
00:21:23
Speaker
I guess one thing that I was able to do is really utilize some negotiating skills, right? When you want help, what do you do? You highlight how much work needs to be done. And so in defining the work that applied in the safety arena,
00:21:38
Speaker
for the facility we ran, it was very clear that one professional could not accomplish doing just the programmatic, just the basic compliance aspect for the facility. And so when you provide that to your executive team and say, this is how my vision of how ICS being able to accomplish this, please support it, it at least was was logical enough that they were willing to
00:22:07
Speaker
to provide that additional help. Furthermore, we had been in a place where it was clear that opportunities were abound. Let's just say it that way. There was a lot of work to do, some heavy lifting. And so when it was summarized in front of them in a compelling way, it was clear support was needed. Yeah. So you built your case, you built your story, and then you shared that story essentially with your management team.
00:22:33
Speaker
Absolutely. And really getting out on the floor and learning what people do was essential. So I had to at least have that credibility to start with. And it took me about two years before I could even build that case and be capable of speaking clearly to the questions that they would have afterwards. So it's not something you just walk in and say, hey, this is what I want.
00:22:57
Speaker
Right, you kind of have to prove yourself and you have to show that commitment and all honesty. When I started this job, I would bet on average I was working 12 to 14 hours a day, five and seven days a week. So it was a heavy lift though and I felt really obligated to get some structure in place to protect the people who work here.
00:23:19
Speaker
and recognizing historic issues and they finally had somebody who was writing down the issues, right? It just took a lot of time to process what that meant and how to most effectively address all the concerns.
00:23:35
Speaker
Sure, so you were triaging some of the worst scenarios so that you could put them and weave them into your story. But at the same time, when you're putting in all these hours, you're actually being able to make a difference for some of those. For the low-hanging fruit, that's the highest hazard things.
00:23:51
Speaker
Absolutely. And it was at a time in my life where I didn't have children. So I could really focus and dig in on this career. And it was so incredibly rewarding to build that trust with the workforce and to understand the challenges that had plagued them year over year. Or maybe they just felt like nobody was listening. And the challenge to make that difference. Every day I went home, I knew I had done something to
00:24:19
Speaker
And that was incredibly rewarding. And as I built this team, I don't get as many opportunities because a lot of the low-hanging fruit is gone. But now some of these big lifts that are six-month, year-long projects, when they're done, that sense of accomplishment comes back. And I just feel like for safety, there's never going to be
00:24:42
Speaker
There isn't an end. It's just like learning about safety, right? I mean, we're never done learning about something with it either. That's what I love about it. Yeah, me too. The human factor shirt, going back to my environmental technical background, you can read regulations.
00:24:59
Speaker
and you can understand situations are different, but when you add the human factor to everything you talk about and do, boy oh boy, it just changes. It just makes things so interesting and it challenges you in a way of problem solving and strategy and communication every single moment of the day. So I mean, that's kind of what keeps me driven towards continuous improvement.
00:25:28
Speaker
Yeah, it's fun. If that's your thing with people, it is for me. And that's been the most favorite part of my career as well. So regarding people and regarding building credibility, sometimes those of us in safety have to build street cred with our employees. And sometimes that means working shoulder to shoulder. Sometimes that means doing things you never thought in your life you would.
00:25:50
Speaker
I don't hear laughing. What are some of those crazy jobs or tasks or things that you leaned into and just did it and went home that night and thought, you're never going to guess what I did today?
00:26:05
Speaker
Oh, well, super simple thing. And people may listen to this and think, really, that's not that big of a deal. But it's a big deal to the folks on the floor. So unfortunately, the culture that I work in is management union. It's not all employees. And so when somebody in management steps outside of a role, you know, it could be looked bad on from the union, like, hey, you shouldn't be doing that. Or it could be, oh, my gosh, I can't believe they're doing that.
00:26:32
Speaker
And so even this week I picked up a hose and started washing down the floor to the slippery. And I don't mean just a little bit of floor. I mean like a mile of floor. So like an hour and a half later, I got the floor washed. And you know, not that big a deal. But, you know, when I had, you know, dozens of employees walk by, they saw that somebody in my
00:26:57
Speaker
position was focused enough and I said, hey, this is for your safety. I'm not going to walk through here when I have mud literally up to my knees. So it's not just cleaning the floor a little. It's like ridiculous. A lot of mud. A lot of mud. And you know, that says something with employees. There's that crud piece. I've been inside of some confined spaces that most people don't fit. So that is not my most favorite thing to do because I realize I'm a little claustrophobic. Didn't know that before.
00:27:25
Speaker
But yeah, when you crawl inside of a vessel that your hard hat doesn't even fit through the space, and we expect employees to be working in there for an 8 hour shift, a 12 hour shift, you get a good grasp of what we're asking these people to do.
00:27:42
Speaker
And I'm not even willing to go in and at least view it or see it. What does that say? You know, what does that say one about our management and our company that we expect you to, but I'm not going to. And from a credibility standpoint, when I crawl in there and I come out completely filled with soot and itchy with all the dust that's down a reef.
00:28:04
Speaker
part of your pants and everything else. You laugh about it with the employees and they appreciate that you at least recognize the challenge if they assist them. And that as the safety professional, you're taking every precaution to send yourself home safe as well. So when you're demonstrating what you're doing in those really high risk situations, it speaks to them.
00:28:26
Speaker
Absolutely. And you know, it's really cool because you take the time to ask them, hey, tell me how this is locked out. And they're excited to show you what they know and that they've got this. And so we walked through the lockout and I apply my lock and say, hey, can you try it? I just want to make sure.
00:28:43
Speaker
Let's look over the procedure one more time and we try it and everything's good. There's a sense of pride there. There's a sense of, you know, what you taught us we're taking serious or I'm going to protect myself. So don't, you know, don't worry. And it's cool that rapport that you build with the people, even though you're validating or checking what they're doing, they're doing it right. They are excited about it.
00:29:05
Speaker
And if there's a problem with it, you don't bash them over the head right away. Usually it's not on purpose. It's more of a coaching opportunity or a, hey, let me learn more about this. Why didn't we do this? Oh, there's this challenge. How do we get rid of this challenge? So you can take the process more easily or whatever's going on.
00:29:27
Speaker
It allows you that opportunity to dig in a little bit more, to learn more, to understand the everyday challenges that they face. If you're willing to get out there with them, it's pretty important. And one of the other things I'll mention is we've got an area of our facility that has a lot of particulate. And it's a required respiratory protection area. And I had housekeeping tours that I was setting up.
00:29:52
Speaker
I told the CEO, I said, hey, Steve, come along with me. And he's like, what do you want to do? And like, come on, you're coming with me to one of the places in the plant that's what I would consider kind of miserable. I mean, we can certainly work there safely with the proper precautions, but it's really not that enjoyable because there's just dust everywhere. And so bringing my CEO out to that area, another way to build credibility is bring other people that your workforce doesn't expect.
00:30:21
Speaker
Yeah. And highlighting the concerns to somebody who has the power to change them, I think your folks will appreciate that. And they will recognize that when they're with them, that you're doing it for a purpose. And that purpose is for them. And so my hope out of that would be, my results out of that would be that the recognition for ventilation.
00:30:45
Speaker
or suppressing that dust, or fixing the machinery that's allowing that dust source. And it's pretty cool when that starts to click in place because it not only gives your safety team credibility, but it also gives your executives credibility. And when you start doing that, your workforce management walls start coming down and that communication starts going easier because there's a belief that when there's a problem, things will be fixed.
00:31:12
Speaker
That's another really good way to build that credibility. It's a both and. If you need help convincing a person in management that something needs to be elevated to a higher level for attention,
00:31:27
Speaker
That's another way to do it is to have them accompany you in your work and not be scared to ask them to join you on those adventures either. I think that's really important. And like you said, it shows the employees that management cares and this person who's doing safety actually has their ear.
00:31:48
Speaker
Right. Now, one of the challenges with that is that executive team member is going to ask you questions. You're going to be ready to respond to what is acceptable. Yes, I have had industrial hygiene testing out here. Yes, I have validated that the PPE we're providing and the program that we've established is correct and accurate.
00:32:10
Speaker
And so it's good that they ask you those questions and learn more too from the technical safety aspect because it builds their ability to evaluate risk or to understand the magnitude of what's going on.
00:32:23
Speaker
So when you're bringing those executive team members out there, those folks that have the ability to drive change, be prepared to answer questions. And if you don't know them, that's OK. You don't have to know everything. But you do need to get back to them with the answer at some point. And so there goes that follow up thing again. Because for a safety professional, you don't only need the credibility on the floor.
00:32:44
Speaker
you need the credibility for business aspects as well because you're going to be asking for money, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah, you got to prove that you're a priority and that you have good business sense in what you're asking for as well. Build your business case. And so backing up to your meeting with your executive team to ask for those people to help support the safety
00:33:06
Speaker
team and you're doing some hiring, when you're building your case, your business case for it, were you using data combined with some of these anecdotal stories like you're telling now? Or how did you approach that? So as you have a team of people who are listening, you're kind of hitting each one on what might resonate with them to make a decision.
00:33:25
Speaker
Sure. So I'm a super visual person. I struggle to just communicate without, you know, having a visual in front of me. And so maybe that kind of leads me to presentation style. I went out and I took photographs of every single piece of rolling stock in our facility. And so we have a locomotive, we have a switcher, we have a
00:33:49
Speaker
with several payloaders. We have forklifts, skid loaders, scissor lifts, and the list goes on. All in all, we have close to 75 pieces of rolling stock. And so I took photographs and said, so what do you think the training looks like for this guy? And what do you think the training looks like for this guy? Oh, and did you know that OSHA requires, you know, car industrial, truck, XYZ, blah, blah, blah. And then, you know, I was able to hit the magnitude of rolling stock. And then I said,
00:34:17
Speaker
So what do you think our training statistics look like, guys? Well, they better all be trained. I said, really? Because here it is. And then I had a printout, something physical for your team to walk away with and think about. And the printout was a single page. That was it. I had 350 employees and 75 pieces of rolling stock. And I had a single page of training saying, this is where we are today. So we have any problem with this equipment causing an injury. And now,
00:34:45
Speaker
How do you think these people should be trained to operate the equipment safely? And by the way, we have some non-compliance here, you know, and that usually gets people going too. But you give them the visual, okay, I've got lots of equipment. Okay, I have nobody trained. Oh my God, what are we going to do?
00:35:01
Speaker
crisis. I know, by the way, OSHA dictates we do a lot more than this. Yeah, I think it worked. It definitely worked when I was lobbying for somebody to help me with heavy equipment training.
00:35:16
Speaker
Yeah, that's a great story. There's pieces, but you've got to try to hit everybody's mode and everybody thinks different. So you can give them a visual. If you can give them something to walk away with that's more statistics-based, to your point Jill, data speaks. And a lot of times data speaks really loudly to people in these positions.
00:35:34
Speaker
And then you add in, oh, did you know that the general fine is XYZ amount? And, oh, did you know that powered industrial trucks create XYZ numbers of recordable injuries across the United States? And you've given those stats to really chew on. And if you really have to, you try to do the hit them at the heart. Hey, do you know anybody who's been hurt on a farm or, you know,
00:35:59
Speaker
Again, me in rural area, a lot of family businesses, people think about the guy who got his arm ripped off in a PTO or something like that. And you say, you don't want that to happen here where you're responsible for it, Mr. CEO. At the end of the day, this is your ship to sail. So when people get hurt here,
00:36:20
Speaker
You should care, you know, and fortunately I feel like our team here is very in tuned and quite frankly, they got me running like crazy because they have high expectations and I really appreciate that. And they do care, right? You'd rather have it. You'd rather have it that way than, than, than the other end of the spectrum.
00:36:40
Speaker
Absolutely, and it's unfortunate. Some of us in the safety profession, to your point about not having the support to get help, some of us don't have what I feel really fortunate that I do have. And what do you do in those spaces? I think that's a really good question. What do you do when you don't have support? And it sounds super generic, but for those of you that are feeling hopeless right now, you do the very best you can. That's the answer.
00:37:03
Speaker
Yeah, you do the very best you can. Yeah, with each day I would completely agree with that and make those connections with the people and do the work where you can.
Managing a Safety Team
00:37:15
Speaker
And take and truly evaluate the risks because if you can prioritize your energy, because there's only one you, for those things that are highest frequency, most severe potential, and you focus on them, you are doing a service to that employee base.
00:37:33
Speaker
That's right. That's right. That's how I've approached my work over the years as well because as we've established, safety's job is never done and there's always a new thing. You know, it's not like you end your workday and go, oh good, I got everything done today. You know, we'll start over tomorrow.
00:37:49
Speaker
It just doesn't work that way. It doesn't work that way. So you managed to get some help for yourself. What's it been like for you managing people in safety? That's an opportunity that not everybody gets to have either. What's been surprising or what's it been like?
00:38:08
Speaker
that that noise I just like managing people in anything you do I think is totally different than managing a program or even not being the direct supervisor. Once you become the direct responsible supervisor, it's different.
00:38:27
Speaker
This is the first job I've had where I directly manage a team and it's been a really awesome learning opportunity. I've been blessed to have amazing people on my team and it's really fun to get to know folks and try to lift them up. So I've always kind of kept the rule of thumb is your employees are happy, they're going to work a lot better.
00:38:51
Speaker
And they're going to have that passion and that energy every day that you need them to have. And so, you know, have a bit of reality, a bit of humility when you mess up and be open with them. I think it's all about building trust. And it's so important that you are capable of putting yourself out there, you know, employee.
00:39:13
Speaker
I don't know all these things. Help me. What is it that you see? Be collaborative. At least for me, I choose collaboration with my team versus dictating what they do. I choose to ask them about their interest points and try to assign them where their strengths are aligned. And I think that's really important too.
00:39:33
Speaker
Too often, and I think it's an old school way of thinking, we try to assign jobs that people will struggle at with the thought that it'll give them the opportunity to improve, right?
00:39:49
Speaker
Really like this other model and there's a program out there called strength finder and it's a really cool it's a really cool way of evaluating your team strengths and matching them and partnering people to be the most successful either with the projects you assign or the Challenges that are out there. You know, somebody's really good at future thinking and somebody else. Yeah, really good at
00:40:15
Speaker
Communication or whatever it might be any part of something exactly and so you got folks that have great strengths that are going to make that project run perfectly.
00:40:29
Speaker
And they feel really good about it because it's fun for them instead of being knocked over the head constantly. And so I believe in that. I believe in, you know, giving people the time to actually do their review, but I don't just do it once a year. I usually will meet with my staff at least four times a year. And if we're having problems, I meet with them more.
00:40:52
Speaker
talk about, you know, who's the project you signed up for when we talked about your goals for the year? How's it going? What else is more important right now? Do we need to change something? Yeah, exactly. It's not written in stone. And I think it's really important people understand that too, because you want them to work on the most important priorities. And if their project they thought about a year ago is no longer the biggest priority, why are they stressing out about it?
00:41:21
Speaker
So, you know, that takes time and it takes a ton of energy and as much as you invest in your team, you're going to get back. And it means that I'm not on the floor as much as I'd like to be, but I trust my team. And that means there's three of us out there on the floor instead of one, you know? And so you got to kind of look at it that way.
00:41:41
Speaker
Right, right. Yeah, I completely agree with you on working toward your strengths or with your strengths. And if anyone listening is wondering what the heck we're talking about, the assessment Brandy's referencing is called the Strengths Finder. And it's something that's an assessment that was developed by Gallup.
00:42:00
Speaker
where people take a quick test essentially to find out what the top five strengths they're naturally born with. It's not something that necessarily we developed over time, but what are we naturally strong and what are we naturally good at? And then once you know that about your team and the people that you work with, it helps figure out how to build a team, how to approach someone on something. It's really interesting. So Strengths Finder, if anyone's curious to follow up on that,
00:42:28
Speaker
Brandi, what's your number one strength? Do you remember? I tied. I was responsible. Responsible was one and I'm a woo. Woo? Uh-huh. And that the woo, I'm not a woo, but do you want to explain what woo is?
00:42:45
Speaker
Oh man, I haven't taken my strength finder for like three years, but I'm a woo, which means it's somebody who walks in the room and throws a party. Right, exactly. It's winning people over. Yeah, people are excited to visit with you traditionally because you bring that energy to it.
00:43:03
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. My number one strength is something called activator, which means I'm good at, well, the thing that drives people crazy with activators is my leading question is, okay, I've heard enough, when can we get started? Activators always want to go. Like, I've got enough now, let's go. And activators are also really good about building consensus around something and getting people excited about it to take kind of that first step.
00:43:31
Speaker
And so, yeah, anyway, so it's it's an interesting it's an interesting thing. So when it's fun to lead by positive versus putting you into a, well, you need to work on this. So here's a project for you. It's just negative. Totally, totally, totally.
00:43:51
Speaker
So now that you're in a position where you're essentially mentoring people, how do you find your own mentors? Like, how are you finding help for yourself now? Or do you have a mentor right now? Well, I have learned something over this time.
Mentorship and Growth Strategies
00:44:08
Speaker
I don't know, towards the beginning of my, my career, actually, I went through a class, and I had a really good manager as well.
00:44:17
Speaker
that told me all about having a board of directors. Now, it doesn't mean that you can just have one mentor. You don't need just one person to help you out. In fact, again, the whole concept that there's lots of different skill sets out there. And just because you have challenges with some of them doesn't mean everybody does. So I have a group of people that I rely on and it depends on what the challenge is on who I call. So I feel like I've grown dramatically from
00:44:46
Speaker
strategy standpoint as my career has morphed into more of this leadership role. And that did not come naturally for me. It was one of
00:44:59
Speaker
sitting down with a couple different people that I felt did that really well. So for me, I sought out people who did things really well where I didn't feel as comfortable or confident in. And yeah, so from a mentorship standpoint, I look across the company I work in, but I look outside of the company as well because sometimes it's nice to have a clear view and somebody who doesn't know all the politics that go on in the job you're at,
00:45:29
Speaker
because they give you the information that you really need to synthesize and bring back to the problem. And it's unimpeded in a sense. So I have a whole lot of people I rely on to mentor me and I guess that's something that I learned really early on.
00:45:50
Speaker
I love that idea of how you frame that as your own board of directors. That's genius. And you know, the thing about our profession is often when we're solo operators, where we are, it's hard to find people within our own companies to ask some of those really specific things too. And the great thing about our profession is there's really so few of us that we really like to help one another.
00:46:17
Speaker
It's so cool too because you really can't claim it's copy written or anything like that. You can share your stuff. There's nothing that's proprietary about safety. And it's kind of the way I think, Jill, the community, to your point, the small community of safety professionals, we embrace each other and lift each other up because there's nothing to compete over.
00:46:42
Speaker
We all are making a difference in society, in making sure all of our employees are going home. And if I can share something that I learned, hey, awesome. That makes it even better.
00:46:54
Speaker
Right. Right. Agreed. Agreed. Like you, I've built my own board of directors too. And I love the way that you frame that. I'm going to use that now for myself. And you're right. I have key people that I reach out to for specific things. And you're right. So when you reach outside of your company, it does help kind of synthesize or gives you a new way to look at something. And yeah, it's great. I love that. I love that.
00:47:22
Speaker
I've had a really cool opportunity to, I'll mention in regards to mentoring and peer mentorship. You know, not that I'm trying to blob out all these things, but the Minnesota Safety Council, I've found some really nice job of making regional groups where, for me, our regional group gets together, I think, quarterly.
00:47:43
Speaker
And it's a good quarter of the state safety professionals that are part of those Minnesota Safety Council will get together and bring our problems to the table. And that way I've got 15 other safety professionals and other safety professionals that hear about the problem and help me problem solve it.
00:48:02
Speaker
or throw out even a nugget that I can run after and it makes it so much easier because we all have such different experiences and we all have, I think, something to share. So that's been a really cool place to share ideas and a way that networking and that safety community can help each other.
00:48:25
Speaker
And there's other groups you know like the asse that get together and you sit down network and i just find that is so incredibly valuable not only for the problems you're trying to solve but again if you're able to help somebody else solve a problem it feels good i think most safety professionals are in this area because they want to make a difference.
00:48:49
Speaker
And sometimes we get assigned safety. Like some of the folks that I've worked with in my previous jobs, it's one of six hats that they have to wear and it's more of a burden. And I have always found that it's unfortunate when a situation like that happens.
00:49:07
Speaker
because you have to actually find the buy-in, you have to push the buy-in of safety on the safety person at the facility. That's not right. But it's also one that you have to have a lot of patience because even if things do change fast, they never change fast enough.
00:49:25
Speaker
And so, you know, I have found a tremendous amount of patience in this arena because if you beat yourself up over all the things you wanted to have happen faster, you forget that you might not have control over it.
00:49:41
Speaker
Right. It's very much a marathon, not a sprint. Yes. Yes. And if I'm going to send out any advice, just remember you don't have control over everything like I wish I did. Exactly. We wish we had the safety magic wand, but we often don't. Another bit of advice would be when you go home, go home and don't.
00:50:08
Speaker
carry it on because that's how you get burned out. And I think our profession can be one that people get burned out on. Yeah, that's a really good tip. So how do you go about turning off that safety button?
00:50:22
Speaker
It's hard, it's really hard, especially since my facility runs 24-7, the majority of the year. It's really hard, but I think the biggest thing for me, and it took me a while to figure this out, but the biggest thing for me was trusting other supervisors and trusting that I did the best I could to prepare them to be my safety advisor out on the floor. So on nights and weekends, if I'm not here, and I come in sometimes on nights and weekends, but when I'm not here,
00:50:53
Speaker
it's going to be okay because I prepared the other staff to take the lead. And I think that's a huge piece that sometimes is forgotten that we don't prepare our supervisors to be successful.
00:51:06
Speaker
Yeah, exactly, exactly. I've been in the same situation as you and it took a while to get people to a point where I felt like it was okay and that they stopped calling 24-7. Yeah, that's why I call those dogs.
00:51:23
Speaker
Right. And they'll be like, well, we knew that you'd wake up easily. We know you're going to answer. We know that you are there and really sorry for waking you up. And then you get the story and you know that you're succeeding when those calls and those texts start to decrease because you've taught them to fish adequately and they're doing it on their own. But in the beginning,
00:51:53
Speaker
It's a lot. It's a lot. Yeah. Never that. Yeah. That 12 to 14 hour days I was talking about. It's a lot. It's a lot. But it's worth it. Been there. Yes. Been there. Done that. That's great. I love that. You know, the legacy you leave behind, let's say I get this great opportunity and win the lottery. At least I know that I'm not leaving a big gaping hole because I built a bandwidth here to support the company in general. And it's hard to get that supervisor buy-in.
00:52:21
Speaker
but they're the people that you need to get bought in first. They have the biggest influence on the mass of people out there.
00:52:28
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Well, maybe one last question before we end our time together. Do you have, you know, on a day that you're maybe thinking, oh, this, you know, here we go again, here's this job. Do you have a story or situation that motivates you that sometimes you have to lean into or remember, lean back into to keep you moving ahead? Yeah, I have one that generally has driven me.
00:52:59
Speaker
And I have one that's more recent I'm gonna pick the one more recent cuz that's what resonates with me now but This is a this is one of those 30 secrets people don't want to talk about right?
Impact of Workplace Tragedy on Safety Commitment
00:53:12
Speaker
Three months into my starting at the job. I'm at we lost an employee we had a fatality
00:53:22
Speaker
Every time I think about that, about the thought of losing another employee, about what his family must have gone through, about the fact that he should still be here, that he was going to retire in two months, and free time to be doing his hobbies. Every time I think, I just can't keep going, I think of him.
00:53:49
Speaker
And it doesn't have to be as morbid as what I'm sharing. It can be anybody who makes a difference or who you look at and said that shouldn't have happened. Or I could have changed that. And so I guess for me, I think about that employee and I think about other employees that have had strained back or something that has impacted their life so greatly that they're not going to be capable of doing what they love.
00:54:17
Speaker
Yeah, right. Yeah. Very much the same for me. And I tend to remember and lean into those stories when you're dealing with those safety cliches that sometimes come our way of
00:54:32
Speaker
Oh, but nothing's happened. Or I've been doing this at this way for 30 years or right. Right. It's like nails on it. It's like nails. Yeah. If people only knew how many times safety professionals hear those words or all that safety stuff just makes the job more dangerous or takes longer or harder, or it was only going to take me this long. Then that's when I lean into, into those same stories like you're talking about with
00:55:00
Speaker
with your employee loss because it does matter. It does matter and those cliches are just that. They're simply cliches.
00:55:10
Speaker
I kind of get sassy and I give them a cliche back, usually. Right. And then they, you know, talk, so. I know. Hopefully I don't have a big eye roll going on at the same time. You know, the good part is most people around here know me well enough that when they say it, they're going to get a reaction and usually they say it out of jest. So we'll leave it with that. Yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome.
00:55:38
Speaker
Oh, hey, you know what? Maybe I do have one last safety question for you or something to share because if I remember correctly, you had an interesting opportunity to be on a board for something specific or lead the charge for something or begin something. What was that success story that you had?
00:55:57
Speaker
Oh my goodness, Jill, remind me. I know what it was. I'm guessing this is one of the stories I've told you, right? So our industry is beet sugar processing and there are several processors throughout the United States and there's a foundation called the Beet Sugar Development Foundation.
00:56:21
Speaker
And that group of companies that the whole industry basically gets together and shares best practices or goes off into studies and shares the information that's funded across the board. Well, I asked our VP of operations, why don't you have a safety committee in that group of people?
00:56:40
Speaker
And he said, well, that's that's a great suggestion. You'll be leading that. Awesome. So we've been having a safety committee across the industry now meet once a year. And it's been for the last four years. And we have branched away from the general meeting that happened.
00:57:03
Speaker
You know, it was already established where they talked about research or other operational best practices. And we meet with that team because our executives from each business are also there. We meet with them every other year. And then we also, the opposite years, meet at a facility.
00:57:19
Speaker
So it's a really awesome opportunity where we have a lot of like issues. And I get to host, if we were at my facility, 15 other safety professionals that are in the same industry.
00:57:35
Speaker
The amazing thing that happens is it's a little bit scary and daunting because you're like, oh, my God, what are they going to see that people are coming in? Right. Right. What did my eyes miss? Right. And but it's really cool because, again, it's all in the same vein. Hey, I see you have the same problem. We fixed it by doing this this solution or whoa, we never thought of doing that. And so you don't even have those conversations in a in a meeting room because you don't think of talking about it. But we can't see it.
00:58:02
Speaker
Exactly. It brings up such amazing conversation. And so we have been going now, like I said, four years, and we've been to two different facilities. Well, actually like four in one meeting because they were located very close together, but really cool opportunity to partner across the industry and network and talk about having similar issues.
00:58:28
Speaker
Not everybody can say they're seasonal, they're union, they're 24-7. All of these challenges that a normal response or solution just doesn't apply. So it's just super cool to get with that group and work through some of the stuff that we're doing.
00:58:44
Speaker
Well, way to get a seat at the table and to make history all at the same time simply by asking the question. Yeah, just be ready to take that one on. But it's been really fun and really rewarding.
00:59:02
Speaker
Oh, that's awesome. That's so awesome. Oh, Brandy, thank you so much for taking your time today to share your story. I really appreciate it and I'm sure our listeners will appreciate it too.
00:59:16
Speaker
Thank you all so much for joining in and listening today. And thank you for the work you all do to make sure your workers make it home safe every day. You can listen to all of our episodes at vividlearningsystems.com or subscribe in the podcast player of your choosing. If you have a suggestion for a guest, including yourself, please contact me at social at vividlearningsystems.com. Until next time, thanks for listening.