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Overcoming Postpartum Psychosis with Ayana Lage
45 Plays4 months ago
After giving birth, Ayana Lage faced a sudden mental health crisis—postpartum psychosis. In this powerful conversation, she shares with the Whine Mamas what happened, how she got help, and what recovery looked like. A raw and important look at maternal mental health. Wine of the Week: Emmolo Sauvignon Blanc
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Wine Mama'
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to Wine Mama, a podcast where two bestie moms whine while they whine. I'm Annie. And I'm Jemina. Let's whine.
Ayanna Leij's Journey with Postpartum Psychosis
00:00:09
Speaker
Today's episode is one of vulnerability, strength, and resilience.
00:00:13
Speaker
We are honored to be joined by Ayanna Leij, a writer, content creator, and mental health advocate who has bravely shared her personal journey through one of the most misunderstood and stigmatized postpartum conditions, postpartum psychosis.
00:00:26
Speaker
She's here to open up about the challenges she faced and how she found her way through. Ayanna, welcome to Wine Mama. Thank you for having me. I'm so honored and excited.
00:00:37
Speaker
this has been a long right This has been a long time coming. Ayanna and I actually know each other. She lives in the Tampa area. So we have known each other, i guess, for A couple of years, right? A couple. and I know. they highlight um Eight years.
00:00:53
Speaker
Seven or eight years. Just a handful of times. So I am so excited to have you on and to talk about this, um this very important topic that we feel I think you are the perfect person to bring light to. But before we kind of get into our episode, before we even get into the wine, let our listeners know a little bit about you and who you are and your family Sure.
Wine Tasting and Discussion
00:01:18
Speaker
Ayanna. um As Annie said, I live in Tampa, Florida. I have two kids. I don't know why stumbled. I'm trying to remember how kids I have. I have a five-year-old girl and then a little boy who will probably be one by the time this episode comes out.
00:01:34
Speaker
And um yeah, my background is journalism. Now I am a writer. um I don't really know if I have any hobbies. It's kind of like a sticking point for me that I panic when asked that question. I'm like, I'm watching TikToks.
00:01:48
Speaker
I say reading, which is like, you know, the go-to answer, but like, I don't have cool hobby, but yeah, that's me. I love that. um And can we just say like you're undercover hilarious. Like you are just a funny person. I don't even know. It's like, do you know that you're funny? Like, do you know that you are hilarious? just This is like so but kind of you.
00:02:12
Speaker
Thank you. You're so funny. I used to send Javina your Twitter. So Ayana, is it month but tell me day Mondays or Tuesdays? Mondays. I would do like Twitter roundups. yeah It's like a Twitter roundup. And I don't know. She finds the funniest stuff. and and it's not just that it's like your stories just the way that you you're you are hilarious so I just love you so much that's a hobby is being being funny like you know if you're being funny I'll take it that's my hidden comedian if you will a hidden comedian maybe not and that but behind the scenes hobby market love it and nothing like a hobby you don't have to really work at right you just are naturally like that yeah
00:02:55
Speaker
yeah trying to Follow me around every day and just, you know, and me with it. Thank you. Absolutely. um Well, we're very excited about this wine. So are you ladies ready to wine with the wine of the week?
00:03:09
Speaker
Yes. And so this week we are drinking the Imolo Sauvignon Blanc. And thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Ayanna. We love Sauvignon Blanc. so tell us why you picked this specific wine.
00:03:22
Speaker
So I wish that I had like a deep, you know, backstory with a lot of history, but I panic when I go to a wine store and I usually am like, I'll just pick the one with the best label. Like I'm trying to Google. It's just like too much is happening.
00:03:38
Speaker
So I just texted one of my best friends who's like way more sophisticated and worldly than I am. And was like, what wine should I pick for this podcast? And she gave this rec. I said, that's what I'm going with.
00:03:50
Speaker
So I've not tried the wine. I don't know anything about the wine. I'm excited. Yeah. Yeah. We love that. We love when the guest has never tried the wine as well, because this is going to be like a true, honest, like review for all this. Typically the guest has tried the wine. So this makes it even a little bit spicier and more exciting. I love it.
00:04:08
Speaker
Yes. I absolutely agree. And Jemena's right. Like usually people like this is my favorite wine or I've had this before. And we're like, we also want to try whatever your favorite wine is, but it it is a lot of fun when um the three of us have not had it. So this will be, this will be a taste test for all three of us.
00:04:25
Speaker
But a little bit more about this wine. The Wagners have roots in Napa Valley dating back to the 1850s. With a long family history of grape growing and winemaking, their winemaking business remains entirely family run, with two of chuck Chuck Wagner's children, Charlie and Jenny, now working alongside him.
00:04:43
Speaker
So the Wagners, actually this family of brand also owns Caymus. They own... conundrum they own banana they own a bunch of different lines and this is like specifically this wine is from the emolo brand of wines oh nice and we all know camis is like creme de la creme of wines like that is on my list of vineyards to visit next time um in napa for sure i'm excited Agreed.
00:05:11
Speaker
So the daughter, Jenny, has created a distinguished and singular style in her Emolo wines. Emolo is the name of her mom's side of the family, which has a long farming history in Napa Valley. Her mom, Cheryl Emolo, has no brothers and wanted to keep the name alive.
00:05:26
Speaker
She dreamed of making wine using family vineyards, and Jenny felt very fortunate that she passed the reins on to her. So love that it's like the company has not only stayed within the family, but she has now used her mom's family name to for for this brand of wine. So I think that's so sweet.
00:05:44
Speaker
That is very sweet. Keeping it, literally keeping it in the family. Yeah. and Love that. I hope my children one day name something after me, specifically wine. That would be great.
00:05:57
Speaker
Not that I think they'll have a vineyard, but anyways,
Understanding Postpartum Psychosis
00:06:01
Speaker
guided by the idea that less is more, this wine is dry and fresh with crisp fruit flavors and bright minerality.
00:06:08
Speaker
On the nose are notes of barely ripened melon, honeysuckle, flower blossom, and the scent of fresh rain. Okay. On the palate, there's going to be a zing of acidity on entry. Okay.
00:06:21
Speaker
then rounds Then rounds out with flavors of honeydew carried over from the nose. A mouthwatering finish that calls you back for another sip. What a description. oh my. yeah I'm excited.
00:06:35
Speaker
ah Fresh rain? I mean, is there anything better than that?
00:06:41
Speaker
Hey, Anna's like, oh God, oh godto God, oh God. i hope it's like... hope it goes up to the hype now. Right. I hope it's like we're talking about like a tropical rain we see in a movie, not like this Florida humidity rain that we get at 3 p.m.
00:06:55
Speaker
Let's describe the rain once we get there. But it's also a very... For it being a Caymus brand of wine, um it's actually very affordable. It's anywhere between $15 to $20 and...
00:07:07
Speaker
We found ours at Total Wine because we know Total Wine has it all. um But yeah, it's it's not bad for it being a Caymus brand. Caymus, again, very well-known brand. And it's also very pricier side of a brand when it comes to wine. So I'm very excited to give this a sip and you know get that fresh rain now smell.
00:07:28
Speaker
Are we smelling fresh rain in here? Not sure. Not sure, but, i you know, there's a lot of sweet. I know it said it was dry, but there's a lot of sweetness description. So I'm very curious to see what we taste.
00:07:43
Speaker
I'm excited. Anna, I love your glass. Oh, thank you. These break so easily. This is the only one of four that I have left from the set that I bought, but I, like, bring it out for special occasions.
00:07:56
Speaker
Well, love it. Do I feel honored? She gets dusted off for the special occasion. I love that. yeah I'm here for that. All right, ladies, are you guys ready to have that first sip?
00:08:07
Speaker
Yeah. Let's do it. Cheers. Cheers. Cheers.
00:08:14
Speaker
Oh. Yeah, she's fresh. She's fresh rain, if you will. And it's not super sweet. No. No, it's not.
00:08:25
Speaker
No. I like it. The honeydew, melon, like all those like descriptions I was expecting like more like sweetness, but like, it's like the perfect amount, I think.
00:08:35
Speaker
Yeah. Of sweetness. Yeah. I really like it. Yeah, very smooth. Well, hats off to you, but also the friend that you texted and was like, hey, i need some, I need some, because that's all of us. like I've gotten better now just because of this podcast. That's really a lot of people when they go into a wine store, you're shoot, don't even know. And you're trying to Google.
00:08:55
Speaker
Google's not loading because you're in the middle of the store. right And then you ask someone and they're just going to tell you. So either they're going to tell you like whatever, like they, heat like whatever everyone's telling them or whatever they're supposed to sell, or
Hospitalization and Treatment
00:09:07
Speaker
they're just going to ah kick you to the nearest, like, I don't know, aisle of something. I don't know. I, like I can never trust those people. So now we may, we may have some, we may have some thoughts here with Emolo.
00:09:21
Speaker
We may need the contact of your friend who recommended this. Maybe she's the one who would text. There you Gabby. Maybe we need to text Gabby for future recommendations as well. Yeah, you do.
00:09:32
Speaker
Wonderful. We love that. It's wonderful. It's good though. is yeah It is. um So we kind of touched on the topic of this episode as we did the intro with Ayanna with postpartum psychosis. So before we kind of like get into that, can you give a maybe high level um description of what that is? like If someone doesn't know what that is, can you give it us a high level? So we all have the same understanding kind of going into this conversation.
00:10:03
Speaker
Yeah. So off the top of my head, so not, you know, super academic or scientific, but postpartum psychosis is the most severe postpartum mood disorder. It affects between facts between one and two per thousand.
00:10:17
Speaker
Okay, sorry. I'm going to rephrase that. Out of every like thousand women, one to two will be diagnosed with postpartum psychosis after a birth. So yeah. um Doesn't happen super frequently, but mean, it's still common enough that, you know, there however many cases a year.
00:10:30
Speaker
um So it's characterized by hallucinations, delusions, mood swings, you know, bursts of energy, basically just like ah like erraticness and unpredictability.
00:10:44
Speaker
yeah Sure, sure. And, you know, we all, i think everyone has heard of postpartum depression, right? And whether you've experienced it personally, or you know, someone who has experienced it.
00:10:55
Speaker
And, you know, we try to shed light on that. But i think this specific topic is not widely known about, to be honest, I did not know about it until I started seeing your posts and hearing your story.
00:11:06
Speaker
And so I think it is so important to continue to talk about it. And we'll plug your book at the end. But I think it's so incredible what you continue to do to share your story. So let's kind of start at the pregnancy level.
00:11:22
Speaker
So you are pregnant with your first daughter and kind what was that experience like? Did you feel anything looking back now? Did you feel anything that may have been, um, out of the norm for you kind of looking back at, at that time?
00:11:40
Speaker
So I found out I was pregnant at the very end of 2019, which means that I was starting my second trimester at, you know, the outbreak of the pandemic, kind of when the world shut down.
00:11:51
Speaker
So that definitely made pregnancy like a really interesting experience, like going to appointments alone and like, you know, just not being sure who would be a allowed in the hospital, if anyone. Um, but, um, my pregnancy was, was fine.
00:12:06
Speaker
I did not really have any warning signs or indicators or anything that I can look back at during pregnancy and say like, oh, I wish I would have caught that or like done that differently. Um, it really wasn't until I gave birth that things kind of took a turn.
00:12:21
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. When, when did you realize something wasn't right after giving birth? Like, what was like, was it something that you personally noticed or was it something that your, you know, spouse knows? Like, what was that?
00:12:34
Speaker
Like, what was that realization like for you or hearing it from someone else? Yeah, I mean, would say that it started the first, I would say two days postpartum were normal.
00:12:46
Speaker
And then things started to get a little bit weird. um I didn't feel like I
Recovery and Advocacy
00:12:51
Speaker
needed to sleep anymore. um i just like was not sleeping and did not feel any of the effects of sleep deprivation.
00:12:57
Speaker
i was very, very like, as I mentioned earlier with the mood swings, like crying and hysterical one moment and then just like totally normal the next. And I think that it's so difficult for loved ones or even like health practitioners because postpartum is a weird time. Everyone knows if you've had a baby, like you don't feel like yourself, you might be acting out of out of the norm, or you know, out of character.
00:13:23
Speaker
um So it becomes a question of when is this a medical concern other than just like one of the you know results of having it having a kid um so answer your question, my family members noticed before I did.
00:13:37
Speaker
um And that was because I started to feel paranoia toward them and like didn't want anyone around my baby but me. um and So I think that that like set off several alarm bells.
00:13:50
Speaker
And so they looped in, I had a doula, had a psychiatrist, I had a therapist, like I had this really solid support system, um who were all there trying to help me out of it. But it just wasn't enough.
00:14:02
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. but And I think that, you know, you said that it but it was a couple days postpartum that you, everything seemed, you know, everything was fine. And then things kind of took that turn or, you know, that change happened.
00:14:17
Speaker
And we have to realize that you know, anyone listening, you have to realize that the woman's body after giving birth, there are so many levels of changes that are going on. Like one, you have this baby you've now been growing is now outside of your body. So you have these physical changes. You have these emotional changes. You have these just mental change. There's so many pieces in your life that are changing all at once.
00:14:42
Speaker
So, i mean, it makes sense to me that it's kind of like that almost like two, three day lag where your body's like, okay, what's going on? And then it's like, wait, like we're, something's not right here. And your body was, um, just you completely affected by, you know, giving birth.
00:15:00
Speaker
yeah That's such a good way to put it because it's, it's also like, like you said, there's so much going on postpartum. Like you almost like automatically, and this is for every mom, like automatically you almost have like body dysmorphia too, because it's like, yeah wait, I just gave birth. And like, now why do I still look pregnant? Like, it's just a lot going on, like a lot going on. So that's what a great support system that you had that noticed that and were able to kind of dive in for you because,
00:15:30
Speaker
I know Annie mentioned that we don't really hear about postpartum psychosis. The only time we ever really hear, which is kind of sad, but the only time we ever hear about it is when we hear it in the news, when something has really just gone away.
00:15:41
Speaker
um i think everyone remembers the story about the mom, you know, who um I think she murdered her three kids and she jumped out the window and survived and her husband forgave her. And a lot of people were upset about that situation because,
00:15:53
Speaker
the what how could the husband possibly forgive, you know? And it's, no, it's a disorder and it needs to be talked about and it needs, people need to shed light on it. So I just, you know, it's such a a great thing that you're doing, continuing to shed that just from like, whether it's a local, whether it's, you know, with your book, I know Annie mentioned your book.
00:16:13
Speaker
i'm It's gonna, I think you're doing great things um sharing your story. And, you know, like and we haven't even gotten like that deep into it yet. And I'm just like, so amazed at like how incredible it is for you to be on this side of the realm telling the story, you know? Yeah.
00:16:32
Speaker
Thank you. Yeah. I agree. i absolutely agree. So you talk about kind of the things that you started to feel and how you started to feel towards your family. How was that affecting your everyday life and then your life at home with your newborn? I mean, those are, you know, those are the times that, you know, you're trying to figure it out yourself and like, how do i handle a baby? you know, how did that affect your, your day-to-day life?
00:16:59
Speaker
Yeah, well, because of the time period, as I mentioned, like with it being 2020, we were all stuck in the house together. So, you know, my parents were over. I mean, I had like a, I had like a, you know, kind of like a bubble that I was okay with being around the baby um during the worst of the pandemic.
00:17:17
Speaker
But, um you know, my so my parents were there, my husband was there, i was there, but we were like, literally, we only left to go to the pediatrician um before I had to go to the hospital. So like, we were shut inside.
00:17:28
Speaker
Um, I think that it happened so quickly, like
Ayanna's Book Journey
00:17:32
Speaker
for context, I was hospitalized for psychosis 10 days postpartum. Um, and as I mentioned, symptoms didn't start for me really until like two days postpartum. So it was like a week long period where things like ramped up very, very quickly.
00:17:45
Speaker
Um, but I think that overall the distrust definitely affected, family members. I think that sure.
00:17:56
Speaker
that was like when there was a level of concern of like, okay, this is something that could be serious. We've never, she doesn't act like this. Like this is not her norm and we don't know how to like get her to see reality.
00:18:08
Speaker
um So that was, I think, easing into full blown psychosis. um The thought on their minds was like, something is really wrong. Yeah. Did they ever approach you and say something like, hey, like, are you okay? Like, is everything okay? Or were they just kind of like,
00:18:25
Speaker
soaking this in and being like coming to like your spouse and just being like listen like i feel like this is heading into a direction that we it's time to intervene type of thing they were very open with me um at one point my husband took away my phone because i was again behaving erratically like posting on social media texting random people like so he took away my phone and changed the passcode so like they were very open with me like something isn't right we don't know what it is but like something's off here. Yeah. um Which I resented at the time, but like, obviously I'm very grateful for in retrospect.
00:19:00
Speaker
I'm sure. i ah Yeah, I can't imagine because i know you outside of just this podcast and I, and then I think, you know, anyone who who follows you because you do have ah a larger following on social media, you are a very family oriented person. And I'm not just talking about you, your spouse and your two children. I'm talking about like your parents, your siblings, like you're very much a family oriented person.
00:19:26
Speaker
So I think it's so amazing that you had that, uh, what's what I'm looking for, um group of people around you to immediately notice like this, something's not right.
00:19:37
Speaker
This is not a Yana. We need to we need to seek help. So did you know what, um, what postpartum psychosis was before this happened to you?
00:19:48
Speaker
And at what point did, was it decided that I think this is what, she's going through. So I know you said you had, um I think you said doula, psychiatrist, therapist, yes, or therapist. So at what point was that kind of distinction made? And did you know what that was when someone said that to you?
00:20:10
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, you like, like we're talking about, I feel like I'd heard it in the news and the headlines. in the horror stories. And that was all that I knew. of i mean, it was right firmly something that would never happen to me. I mean, that's how we get through life, right? Like you look at the horrible story and you think like, um thank God that's not my life.
00:20:28
Speaker
um Until it is. hum But um yes so yeah, indeed. i was diagnosed with postpartum psychosis um at the hospital, like very early in my hospital stay.
00:20:40
Speaker
um But I didn't even learn about my diagnosis until after I was out of the hospital. Cause like, wow. No one sat down to explain it to me. Right. So, yeah, i um I didn't even, like, really know, like, what I experienced until I was, I thought probably, like, a month postpartum.
00:21:00
Speaker
Wow. So when you say at the hospital, like, how were they treating you at the hospital? Like, were they treating you like we need to pump, like, a banana bag of vitamins in you? Like, how, what caused...
00:21:14
Speaker
Like, Hey, get in the car. We're taking you like to the hospital. And you know, like how did that transition for you? Like, and you were just like, okay, yeah, let's go type of thing. Or were you kind of like, wait, what are you guys talking? Because when you're in it, right? Like your mind, I'm right. You're wrong.
00:21:29
Speaker
You know, like, yeah what are you guys talking about? Like, it's me type of situation, you know, especially when you're deep into that. um And you don't realize that outside world's just no, like there this isn't you like come with me and let me help you.
00:21:43
Speaker
um So what were they like? How was that like? Was it like your spouse was like, hey, let's you know, because a lot of times people have to be borderline like tricked to go to get help for this, you know, because again, it's more it's me, me, me. It's I you're the one that's wrong. I'm not doing anything crazy. You're the one that you know, like the mental play game that goes into that. So tell us a little bit like how how did that happen? How did that transition for you? And how did you feel during that process?
00:22:11
Speaker
Um, so yeah, for me, the hospitalization started, I had a night, um, late at night where I suddenly started hearing from God and, you know, it was like writing down, grabbing notebooks, like running out of paper to write down all the things I was hearing.
00:22:28
Speaker
So at that point I transitioned from paranoia to like, okay, like something is really wrong. Um, I think that my family was very hesitant about hospitalization because,
00:22:41
Speaker
I wasn't gonna be able to have visitors. um I wasn't going to be able to see my baby. And like we're in the middle of a pandemic where we still don't know the effects of this disease that's killing all these people. um So being in a hospital and all this was happening was like, they know me well enough know that that would be like my worst nightmare.
00:22:56
Speaker
um But the next day after I started hearing these delusions and kind of having these thoughts, I just had a moment where I felt really like just terrified.
00:23:08
Speaker
And I was like, I need to go to the hospital right now. And everyone around me was kind of like, okay, like let's, you know, like we don't want to go there unless we have to. And I said, well, I guess like ah overall trigger warning or, you know, whatever, I'm going to mention suicide. But I said, if yeah if I can't go to the hospital school right now, I'm going to kill myself.
00:23:24
Speaker
And I wasn't suicidal at that time, but I feel like my mind was looking out for me in a way of like, you need to get help right now. Get me to the hospital. This is like, these are the magic words so that people, you're going to running to get you to the hospital, which is what happened.
00:23:40
Speaker
And then um when I was, when I got to the ER, but whos the hallucination started um for the first time. So i was able able to experience that in like a medical setting and immediately receive treatment which if i'd been at home it would have been so dramatic for everyone involved yeah wow that's if that's not god's timing but that that happened in that way that's crazy because like some people that's where things go wrong right like once you start hallucinating
00:24:16
Speaker
And hearing things, that's when things go wrong for people. So honestly, good for you. I know it's probably hard to say the trigger word, but you knew that's what would get them to listen.
00:24:26
Speaker
and especially, like you said, and during the pandemic where like nobody wants, like that's the last resort anybody wanted to do at that time, you know, like, oh, why would we go there? And then risk getting something. And then, you know, you have a newborn at home and, you know, your, their minds are probably spiraling too at that point. Like, no, like we don't want to take you there. Like, let's see how we can help. So honestly, good for you for knowing that would get their attention and that that would get you the quickest help the fastest way.
00:24:56
Speaker
specifically in a pandemic where they hospitals refused a lot of people. If it wasn't urgent, if it wasn't an emergency, it was, it wasn't being handled same day situation. So that's, that's incredible that you had that like lapse in moment of time to be able to be like, no, it's,
00:25:14
Speaker
it's time. Like I need this for me and I need this in order to get through this hump of whatever's happening to me and my mind. Cause our mind, we say this all the time. Our minds are such a powerful thing. I think we all underestimate our minds and this is why things like this happen and don't get talked about or brushed under the rug or it's just a news article and then people forget about it, you know, right and doesn't get brought up again. It doesn't.
00:25:38
Speaker
And honestly, I don't even think, I think recently I started talking with some of my um providers, my some of my OB providers. And it's one of those things like maybe pediatricians should also start evaluating moms because think about how many times you see the pediatrician after you give birth versus how many times you see your OB. you know like um There needs to be some kind of crossover because to prevent this from happening to women because it happens.
00:26:06
Speaker
It happens. Yeah. yeah But that's that's powerful that you were able to have that moment and realize and get that help. Because like you said, hallucination started as soon as you got to the ER.
00:26:18
Speaker
that could have been at home that could have, you know, yeah yeah, it's very, very, um, very scary. I know you mentioned you didn't know about the diagnosis until a month postpartum. Were you in the hospital?
00:26:32
Speaker
You were in the hospital for, were you in the hospital for a month or how long were you in the hospital for being treated? Yeah, so I was hospitalized 10 days postpartum. I was there for 17 days, so I got 27 days postpartum.
00:26:45
Speaker
And then um I was on a lot of medication, so kind of still like not all the way there in a lot of ways. So it was probably a little bit before a month, probably closer to 28 or 29 days postpartum, that I actually learned about the diagnosis.
00:27:02
Speaker
Okay. Okay. Yeah. So just over two weeks in the hospital, and then of course you are discharged, you go back home. um How was that kind of like getting back into, you know, a semi routine? You probably hadn't even formed a full routine yet at home because you were just 10 days postpartum. So how was it getting back into,
00:27:25
Speaker
um home life and, you know, kind of what effects did it have on you with, you know, with the, with the baby kind of getting back home and starting again, trying to form a routine again? Yeah. i feel like I coped, unfortunately, by port pretending like everything was normal. Like I was back at work, like,
00:27:45
Speaker
seven or eight weeks postpartum, which I know is the case for like most of America. So not special in that regard, but I, um I had the ability to take more time off and I decided not to, because I was just like, like, I need to get back into it. I like things are normal. Nothing happened. Like we're going to past it.
00:28:04
Speaker
um I think that what I struggled with, with, um with my daughter was that I always say that everyone assumes that like being away from your baby is the hardest part of an experience like this.
00:28:17
Speaker
And it was difficult toward the end, but like the hardest part for me in the beginning or looking back at the beginning is that I didn't care um that I was separated from her. I didn't know she was real. Like I was so far gone that like, I was not like, like right now, if you took away from my kids and and I was, you know, couldn't see them for two weeks, I'd be, you know,
00:28:40
Speaker
inconsolable. I'd be in the hospital probably laying in bed crying. Like that was not my, I, I had more important things to worry about than a baby. So I think that that was for me was probably the most difficult part that I felt like not only did I miss this time, but like I didn't fully miss it, you know, because of my mental state.
00:28:58
Speaker
um So that definitely, I definitely feel like I felt like, um like my husband was a favorite, like she was never going to bond with me. She could sense yeah that I was gone and you know, all of that. So it was, it took, I finally like entered therapy for it.
00:29:15
Speaker
think about like two months after it happened, two or three months after it happened. And like, it took a lot of unpacking, like years of therapy to get through it. Oh, I wouldn i would not, I would not doubt that.
00:29:27
Speaker
Would you say that's probably the hardest part of this entire, i don't want to call it an experience, but this entire experience, Again, don't want call an experience. Diagnosis. like Thank you.
00:29:40
Speaker
Yeah. ah Would you say that was probably the hardest part was was that part with kind of getting back home? um Or was it was you know during your stay there harder? I mean, I don't know. I guess looking back, you know in the in the moment, those 10 days postpartum, you don't realize what's going on. But now looking back, what would you say is kind of like the hardest part that um you can now look back and say, we got through that.
00:30:07
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, without a doubt, the hardest part was losing control. um I feel like I'm like such a so obsessed with how I'm perceived and like saying the right thing and not, you know, overstepping and not being inappropriate and like.
00:30:23
Speaker
shorten Always, you know, being, falling in line. Like, that's just my my approach. Like, I don't like being the person who's, like, taking a stand, you know what i mean? And, like, not conforming in most situations.
00:30:35
Speaker
So all that to say that, like, I'm in this new mental state where, like, I don't care. I'm saying what I want. I'm doing what I want. I'm, you know, telling my family that they can't be around my kid because I don't trust them and I don't want to be with them and I don't love them. Like, I...
00:30:51
Speaker
I think the thing that terrifies me even now still is the fact that your mind can betray you like that. Like you can just wake up and suddenly not be in control of your mind anymore. So that I think is like the lasting hardest part because like, you know, i have ah another kid, as I mentioned. So I had four years later, I had my son and i just had this like pervasive fear of like, this could happen again. This might happen happen again. yeah um So I don't know if I'll ever escape that. Yeah.
00:31:20
Speaker
yeah that feeling, that feeling. Yeah. The what ifs. Yeah. the what And I think the what ifs haunt any mother at any point in time, once you have a kid, right? But like, once you know, you've been through that, and like you said, then you had your son, I'm sure the what ifs were like, spiraling out of control for you, because it's like, you said, this could happen again, you know, it's, it may not go away. So like,
00:31:44
Speaker
your healing journey coming home, you said it took a while for you to actually seek to go see a therapist. yeah um What do you think was your breaking point at that point? Like to be like, okay, I think I really do need to, it's time to unpack because it's funny you mentioned you went back to work because as women and as moms, that's what we do, right?
00:32:03
Speaker
We brush it under the rug. We keep chugging along because we know We have to go. We have to keep going. We don't stop. And I think that's where this stigmatized situation comes in because no one looks into it because we just, it's normal for us, right? Like we just, no matter what it is, yeah we'll just keep going. It's okay. Like, oh, everything's normal. Everything's fine. I'm going to figure out later.
00:32:25
Speaker
But then the later comes and that's when we're like, everything's not okay. Like, yeah I think I do need. So did you feel like you had that like light bulb go off and you're like I think it's time for me to go talk to somebody about this?
00:32:37
Speaker
I think it was a gradual thing. My um my therapist who i who I had kind of postpartum, the one that I mentioned, right she told me straight up, like, I'm not, I don't feel qualified or trained to treat this or to, like, help you walk through the aftermath of this, which I really appreciated her honesty. So she recommended someone. And I think that I was just stuck in the mindset of, like,
00:33:02
Speaker
I don't want to think about this. Like, I don't want to deal with it um until, you know, that you can only do that for so long. um And I'd have like triggers of things that reminded me of the hospital and sounds that I'd hear. And like, if, you know, people said certain things.
00:33:15
Speaker
And so I kind of was like, okay, like if I'm trying to like get it together for this, not even for myself, but for my daughter, that's all that I have going for me. Then like, I have to make an effort to get some help.
00:33:28
Speaker
Yeah. sure Yeah. And you said, i mean, you said it's taken years um of conversation, which as it should, because, you know, again, like you said, you've also had your son since then. So it's like these, these feelings, these are emotions are coming back up. So it's been a process for you to, um to have these conversations and,
00:33:51
Speaker
get everything out there. Was it hard opening up um at those first handful of sessions with this new therapist? Was it hard opening up about this journey? Or were you just at that point where you're like, i need to just unload all of this that I am feeling? Yeah, I think I felt ready. i think that I was like, and I've been in therapy on and off for a long time. So I kind of like, once I got back into therapy, I was like, okay, i know what I need to do to feel better. So like, I'm going to try to do that thing.
00:34:20
Speaker
Yeah. Wow. Were you afraid to speak openly about what happened to you? Like, how long did that take you to be like, you know what? i think I need to share this. I think I need to, the people need to know that this is real. This is I'm a real person. It's like, I'm a celebrity. I'm not some story in the news. Like,
00:34:41
Speaker
Did what, like, were you afraid to share that, like, for a while? Like, I feel like knowing myself, I would like, I'm going to tell nobody. Like, I think I need to carry this to the grave until I've reached that point. Like, okay, maybe I'll share it with my best friend or something. You know, like, what, um how was that for you? Like, how was when you were like, you know what, I think I need to, I think I need to share my story.
00:35:03
Speaker
I did not want to talk about it. I felt a lot of shame about it um which, um, historically previously, I'd been very open about like my struggles with depression. Like I talked and written and, you know, spoke about mental health.
00:35:18
Speaker
And um so i also felt shame that I was feeling shame because I'm like, okay, I should know better that this is not something to be ashamed of, but here I am ashamed. So just like this shame loop.
00:35:29
Speaker
um But um i um I started telling my friends about it probably like a year and a half or two years after, um which for me is a really long time. Like I'm like an open book, to you let, always, but especially with people close to me.
00:35:42
Speaker
um There were a few close friends who like had been kept in the loop when it was happening, but like yeah I didn't start telling like my wider circle of friends until like a year and a half or two years in.
00:35:53
Speaker
And then I wrote about it publicly for the first time three years. um Three years. And that was the um first time that I mentioned postpartum psychosis publicly was yeah three years postpartum. Yeah.
00:36:07
Speaker
That was your, you wrote an article for Cosmopolitan, right? That's right. I mean, that is... that is That's what people need to see.
00:36:18
Speaker
It's not what you want to see because it's terrible to think that someone went through that, but it's what people need to see to understand, because I do feel like kind of how we've spoken about it. It's a little bit, um it's, I feel like it's misunderstood. um so if you were to take anything kind of like from this, like what do you, from the psychosis or the postpartum psychosis, what do you wish people understood more about this. i something that's completely out of your control. Like you have no control over your mind, as you said. So what is something that you wish people more, more people understood about, um, postpartum psychosis?
00:36:56
Speaker
mean, think the biggest thing would just be like, that it can happen to you. Like that is the thing that I think I wish I'd known. that it isn't some far off condition that only affects you know certain people and certain groups who have nothing to do with you.
00:37:12
Speaker
um like It's easier to think about it that way, but I think if i if ah new parents can know that like anyone can be vulnerable, I mean, there are risk factors make you more likely to have it, but this can happen to anyone.
00:37:25
Speaker
um I think like if to your point about the pediatrician, like my pediatrician had been like, Hey, like these are warning signs of psychosis. Like I would have gotten help sooner. You know what i mean? So, yeah. Yeah. No, it's, it's, it's an intertwined world, right? Like I, you see your checkup for six weeks and then see ya for you for your pap smear in five years or whatever it may be, you know, like it's just, it's so crazy to me that it's not,
00:37:53
Speaker
that talked about because like Annie said, postpartum depression, we'll talk about it any day. Postpartum anxiety, a newer trendier thing, you know, if you will, people are starting to talk about it, but this is also very serious. Like this, those two things, one plus one lead to two.
00:38:09
Speaker
So it can lead to this, you know, like you should be able to talk about all, all of this. And it shouldn't just be the little, to me, honestly, I it shouldn't just be a little checklist when I come to my appointment saying, are you feeling sad today? yeah i want you to tell me, I want you to in my like call me out on it. Like in person, tell me, don't just look at that little questionnaire I just filled out and then ignore it, you know, because maybe I lied. Maybe I didn't feel comfortable writing it down there. Like I'd rather you human to human, let me see some genuine conversation and ask me about it. But I, I did want to ask you,
00:38:46
Speaker
did you feel like almost like once you did kind of share with more people and you wrote that article, like, did you feel free? Like, did you feel like it's okay to share money? Like, I don't know. did you feel like something like lifted off of you? Like you weren't holding, cause you said it's very rare for you to have held that in with your like wider circle of friends for so long.
00:39:05
Speaker
So when that you finally were able to like share and then even share with the world and, you know, articles and things like that, did you feel some sense of like, I was meant to share this? I definitely think that I felt proud of myself for sure. yeah um I was very overwhelmed by the response, which i mean, it was 99% positive, but it was still just like a lot.
00:39:28
Speaker
um And I didn't, you know, so I had people reaching out to me. it I like, I didn't want to like miss a message from anyone. So right I just was on my phone a lot. And just like, I think I felt really anxious in the days after the article, but looking back, I'm like so glad that I did it.
00:39:43
Speaker
yeah um did you have a lot of people reaching out who had experienced, had also experienced that? Yeah. I mean, wouldn't say a lot, but probably, I mean, at least like eight to 10. So I mean,
00:39:56
Speaker
That's, yeah I mean, that's that's a lot to me. Yeah. to be me that To me, that's a lot, which is, I mean, it sounds like a small number, but again, ah ah ask listeners, how many people do you know who have experienced postpartum psych, not depression, not anxiety post. And it's, it's, I, again, when I first started reading your story and hearing your story, that was the first time that i um had heard of it. So there's someone listening right now. And I wouldn't say, you know, someone may not know, someone may be very freshly postpartum and they may not understand what's going on, but maybe someone who's going through that recovery period, what advice, or I even want to call it advice, but maybe piece of wisdom that you would give to them to kind of help continue and lead their journey um back to back to kind of who they are.
00:40:50
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, i think that I wish would like what I wish I would have known is that it doesn't last forever. Like none of this has to last forever. um ah you know, anything in postpartum can feel so overwhelming and so permanent and so life altering. And like, when am i going to feel like myself again? When is this not going to be my reality?
00:41:11
Speaker
um so, I mean, I, it didn't take me until a year postpartum, like it wasn't until I was your postpartum that I started feeling like myself again. And I wish that I'd known that that's normal, that, you know, yeah those people aren't at six weeks postpartum feeling like, oh yeah, like and back to me.
00:41:26
Speaker
um So, I mean, I think that that would be the one thing that I would share with someone that it can take a long time, but that it won't last forever. i love that. That's such a good piece of advice because it's true.
00:41:39
Speaker
You know, you feel like you're down deep and like the deepest hole you could be postpartum, especially for you. First child pandemic. I mean, what else could they have thrown at you? You know, like i that, like that, that was just lot alone a lot. It it was heavy, heavy.
00:41:56
Speaker
heavyy So how how would you say this whole, like I said, I don't want to say experience, but this diagnosis has changed you to the person you are today? You know, not maybe today, but also to the person you were after you had your son because you had experienced that. Like, how did it change who you are?
00:42:14
Speaker
I think I'm definitely more grateful, um which it feels cliche, but it's true, you know, of the little things that I, you know, even like rolling my eyes at like,
00:42:26
Speaker
having to sit down and work or, you know, uncomfortable call talk. I'm looking at these are all things that like, I didn't know if I, that I'd be able to do. um you know, i I don't know if I mentioned this, that before i started to improve, they were talking about transferring me to a long-term, um,
00:42:43
Speaker
by psychiatric care facility because they did not think that I was improving in like the short-term in patients day so I like have this perspective now of like wow like my life as it is as mundane as it is is like still I feel so lucky um and then I also think it's made me more empathetic I think that I am less quick to judge people who might be acting out of turn or behaving in a way that I wouldn't behave in um I just, whether they're having a mental break or not, I just kind of feel like I've become little bit more open-minded.
00:43:19
Speaker
i Yeah, that's i I think that is a big piece too. Like we never know. And this goes just to your everyday life. Like you never know what someone's going through. And I try to keep that in mind. It's hard sometimes.
00:43:32
Speaker
um But you know you never know what someone is going through. And I think, you know unfortunately for you going through that, you now have a completely different perspective of like, I've been in some of my very worst days.
00:43:47
Speaker
that person may be having a pretty hard day, however they're acting or treating someone else or treating me, they, they may just be going through a really, um ah really hard time. But i really want to shed some light on you know, you really have, um like you said, your first article was three years after this happened to you, you wrote the cause of the article in Cosmopolitan, you have now and you've I know you've written and spoken openly about it since then.
00:44:17
Speaker
but you've now taken it one gigantic step further with your new book that is coming out. So I would love to, it's missing me. um I would love for you to kind of talk about that. Tell us a little bit more.
00:44:30
Speaker
And you're an author, like you wrote a book. Hello. Thank you. Bestseller. Oh, we'll see about that. But, uh, we will listen, we will make sure this makes the bestseller list because this is a serious women issue that needs to make the bestsellers list. Okay.
00:44:51
Speaker
fingers crossed um yeah no so the book came about after the cosmo article an agent reached out to me and was kind of like i really enjoyed your story i think you've got you could have a book in you and i was like ah no like i don't want to do that too much work i don't want to deal with rejection trying to pitch it and all that but like i ended up deciding to go for it after kind of thinking about it and um Yeah. So long story short, i landed a book deal last summer, last August.
00:45:22
Speaker
um And then it's coming out next March. So like such a long, drawn out process, um a three-year process. But um yeah, it's about postpartum psychosis, my experience.
00:45:34
Speaker
So like me expounding on a lot of the things that I've mentioned here, um And then also, um you know, because one of the delusions, one of my central delusions was that God was talking to me, kind of exploring how that changed my view of faith and religion.
00:45:50
Speaker
um so yeah i i think it's good i'm biased but i think it's good so i'd love you to check it out where do we pre-order can we pre-order if it's coming out march i feel like it's in the works of being released then and we can pre-order right yes um pretty much wherever books are sold amazon books a million barnes and noble bookshop walmart target yeah yeah Oh my gosh.
00:46:16
Speaker
It's incredible. how Okay. How did, um, oh gosh yeah, I, sorry. I just, I'm getting chills at the thought of you, like walking to a target or a Walmart and like seeing your story printed in front of you. Like I'm going to cry.
00:46:27
Speaker
Like that's amazing. it's Have you gotten a copy of it yeah it's like a not yet? physical copy of it? Yeah, not yet. i'm um i've just wrapped up the editing process, so we're like moving into production.
00:46:43
Speaker
so probably in the next couple months. But yeah, it's going be surreal when I actually see it. That's amazing. And I'm guessing your spouse also read it. Also, I love you guys are the cutest.
00:46:55
Speaker
ah his His outfit transitions whenever you're having on reels. Also, you're the biggest Beyonce stan in the world. Like there's so many things that we could talk about on here. But how did he like I'm sure he's has he read it?
00:47:08
Speaker
has. Yes. He amazing. He's read several iterations of it. was going to ask. feel like I talk about him a lot in the book. So that was like, i kind of wanted to make sure he was cool with it, but also like one of the perspective of someone who'd been there the whole time walking through it with me to like see what they thought of it.
00:47:26
Speaker
Sure. He's read feedback. Like, yeah, it was great. That was, I was going ask that too, if he was able to kind of provide feedback. Cause mean, to your point, he walked hand in hand with you through this process. I mean, he,
00:47:39
Speaker
he I'm sure had family's help while you were in the hospital, but I mean, he probably took, you know, you typically kind of go newborn stage fumbling together, but he probably fumbled on his own for a little bit. that was probably a completely different experience. so I love that he has read it or given, you know, seen multiple iterations given his feedback.
00:48:02
Speaker
um i think that's, think that's amazing. and i'm I'm so happy for you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm excited. I really am. I'm excited for you. That's such a huge accomplishment.
00:48:14
Speaker
And like I said, like sell it out, girl. This is something that needs to be spread to the world and not just when something horrible happens and NBC wants to report it.
00:48:25
Speaker
Like it needs to be more than that. It needs to be the standards need to change for women. like it just does. Like, unfortunately, you know, we get a little bit put on the back burner. We get like, I've said it multiple times already. We get a six week checkup and then it's great.
00:48:44
Speaker
You can, you can resume sexual activity. Like what? Like, honey, I'm, I'm far beyond that. Okay. My mind is nowhere near that, but it's just, it needs to be talked about. So I'm so glad that you,
00:48:58
Speaker
so you know, cause you have a platform, you were like Annie said, your social media, like, it's just, I'm, I'm so happy. And I want to say, I'm proud of you for taking the step to share that with people because your story is going to help so many people. Like, even if they don't reach out to you and personally tell you like, Hey, I went through that too. Or like, Hey, like,
00:49:20
Speaker
hearing that they may read it and realize they're in it yeah and they're, they need help and they're heading in a very dark direction and they need to get out of it. So that's awesome. You should be so proud of yourself.
00:49:32
Speaker
Honestly. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. I feel, I feel really lucky and honored and all the things that I get to share the story with the world. I know sometimes it's hard to kind of give ourselves a pat on the back and um praise ourselves for something that we've done. But um I hope that you continue to do that for yourself. And I cannot wait to see the stories um leading up to the launch and you actually having it in your hands. I will request a signed copy.
00:50:03
Speaker
going to buy it and ship it to your house and ask for a signed copy, please. So, um, so I can have one for myself. I would be down. would be down. Honestly, I won't assign copy, like I'll send the wine that we're drinking tonight. And then if you can also sign that, that would be great.
00:50:21
Speaker
We'll put that in like a studio someday, like to the wine mamas, like never forget. um But before we kind of get into the wine and kind of wrap it up, I just want to ask you one final thing. If you could speak to yourself at the start of your postpartum experience, what would you say to yourself?
00:50:40
Speaker
Oh gosh. if If we're talking about the start before things took a turn, I honestly don't know. I guess buckle up. you't I don't know that I could have prepared myself for what happened. yeah But if we're kind of talking about when my mental health started to deteriorate, I think that my advice would be similar to what I said earlier about like, you know, this, this is going to be terrible, but it's going to be temporary. Yeah. um It's going to be okay.
00:51:05
Speaker
Yeah. It's going to be okay. That would, that would be my, my big takeaway that I'd want to share with myself. Yeah. And I think it's a great, way yeah, it's a great takeaway because it doesn't, it like it does not last forever.
00:51:17
Speaker
And you have to, hopefully you are surrounded by people who will kind of help you take the next step for that wake up call and say, okay, this, like, let's take the next step together. So, um, but you look at you now, Ayana.
00:51:33
Speaker
Yes. Queen. Thank you. Thank you. um Queen, who can say... We have the cutest kids. Can we go back to the kids? The kids are so cute. We were just talking about going back to school and how sad it is and heavy for our hearts seeing their big old backpacks as they race, so excited. And you're like, oh my It's boo-hooing, but they're like, oh my gosh, bye,
00:51:59
Speaker
Your kids are so beautiful and so cute. Thank you. Yeah, I feel... I'm biased, but I feel... yeah I feel the same too. Yeah. It's, um I mean, yeah, you can look back and like you said, you're, you're grateful um for where you are now and what you have. And I think we should all kind of take a step back too and um think about our own experiences and our own journeys. You know, I,
00:52:23
Speaker
I did not go through, post-starting depression. I did not go, you know, i had, I had some emotions after I gave birth, you know, so now I can look back after hearing, you know, your story and kind of more detail and be like, wow, I am grateful for my experience. So I think, um, it just gives us a different perspective of every day, every, every life.
00:52:45
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. pressure let's circle back i know we were heavy heavy this episode let's circle back to the wine are we feeling i'm just going very good i'm just really good is so good it is truly good imagine this with the frozen jalapeno hack no what is it what is it So you freeze if you like a little spice. So you cut up jalapenos and you freeze them as like an ice cube basically.
00:53:18
Speaker
And you put it in your Sauvignon Blanc and it I don't know what it does, but like the flavor is just so interesting. I feel like I would be so skeptical.
00:53:32
Speaker
1000% skeptics, but we did try it and we tried it with like a mediocre Sauvignon Blanc and oh my God, it took it to next level. like it did. Imagine it was this one on its own. This is amazing.
00:53:44
Speaker
Yeah, it might. It might. It could get a 10 from me. I don't know. That's that's a scary thought, but it could go to a 10 if we added the added the ice cube jalapenos to it. But I think the only reason you like freeze them is because it keeps it helps keep it colder longer. Like you can just do them like fresh jalapenos, just toss them in there.
00:54:02
Speaker
And I'm not talking like a whole. bush shall love them I'm saying like I get I do the two slices, like two yeah little slices in there. And um it's really good. Now, if you let it sit in there and you get to the last couple of sips, then you're like drinking like jalapeno.
00:54:16
Speaker
Get you some salsa and guac, girl, because now we're having some spice. Okay. Like at that point we've reached, we unlocked a new level. New level unlocked.
00:54:28
Speaker
New level unlocked. Do we feel like we are ready to cork the wine? So Ayan, as a reminder, I know but kind of mentioned before we started recording, um we cork the wine.
00:54:40
Speaker
It can go anywhere between. So we do decimal points too. So I'm aware between a 0.1 and a 10, but just know if you are rating this wine in 10, that means you love it so much. You're willing to just get a tattoo of this wine label somewhere on your body. And I do not know if that is your journey.
00:54:58
Speaker
if it is, let's, I'll go with you since we. That's the path you want to choose. We support. I appreciate it. So no wine has ever gotten 10.
00:55:09
Speaker
And do you feel did I don't know if I put that, put more pressure on you, but do you feel like you're ready to cork this wine? I do. I think I would give it like a 7.5. Okay. Okay. That's great ranking. A 10 is like the best, most mind blowing glass wine you can imagine.
00:55:28
Speaker
Yes. Maybe eight. I don't know. I don't want to be too stingy with my points. Yeah. i was that lo how I feel every time. I'm always like, am I being stingy? Like, do I need to, I need consider the feelings of the wine.
00:55:40
Speaker
exactlyling Exactly. How does, he how does a Molo 7-year-blanc feel? Right. Right. I know. It's of those like, is the fresh rain like there or is it not, you know?
00:55:52
Speaker
Were we smelling the fresh rain? Yeah. We say anything, I forget anything but of above a five or a six is something that we would purchase again. yeah Anything above a six is something we would purchase again.
00:56:03
Speaker
and then of course the higher you get from there, it's like, wait, this is something I would actually um buy and bring with me to like the girls night or bring with me to a family dinner, you know, recording. So between a seven, five and an eight is not bad because I was right there with you with a seven, nine.
00:56:18
Speaker
yeah. Very, I, I really like it. And I mean, again, we love, we love Sauvignon Blancs over here. Yeah. Same. I don't, I don't think I've met, well, I don't want to want to say it. going to say, I don't think met a Sauvignon Blanc. I haven't liked, but I'm sure there, there are some, yeah, there are some, there's some out there.
00:56:37
Speaker
I'm an eight. I think she's crisp. I think she's smooth. i would buy her again. i would serve her to host. I would give her as a gift. I think she was a great choice.
00:56:50
Speaker
And I honestly think, i i and I'm probably going to pour a glass and put a jalapeno in and see that really like umps it up later. you have to report back cause I'm so fast. will report back. Yeah, I will report back because I think that may take it to like an 8.3. A 0.3 extra. Yeah.
00:57:05
Speaker
ah point three extra I do wish I had a jalapeno to go out there and have a little, a little nightcap. Cause as all our listeners know, we record at night. So we have a little fun after bedtime. So man, I would love to have a little jalapeno to put in there um afterwards. But before we kind of wrap everything up, Ayan, is there any last words, last thoughts, anything at all? It can be related to whatever you want that you want to share, whatever you want.
00:57:34
Speaker
Um, no, I don't think so. This has been so much fun, guys. Thank I mean, it's weird for me to say fun when it's like psychosis, but oh really a really enjoyable experience. I really appreciate you guys.
00:57:46
Speaker
good Well, we appreciate having you on. We appreciate you coming to share your story. I know we've like you've said everything that you probably can say. And I just appreciate your I've said appreciate so many times, but i do. I appreciate you coming on and sharing your story because as we've said, it's so important to speak about these things, make sure they are heard. It's something that Jameen and I really pride ourselves in on this podcast to be able to share things like this um so people can hear them and they can hear them from a real standpoint. These are real things that happen to real people that we know in our day-to-day lives. So
00:58:28
Speaker
um, your, um, your willingness to come on here and share with us is, um, I'm gonna say one more time Appreciated one for the road. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for having me. No, no, truly like your strength and vulnerability. Like it's, it's beyond like, i I'm inspired to continue this conversation to other people. I know a lot of people who,
00:58:55
Speaker
are still trying to conceive and people who are pregnant currently, you know? And, um, so I, I dare, I say, appreciate you as well. No, no, that's my word. That's my word.
00:59:07
Speaker
She's going to charge me later for taking her word. But no, truly, thank you so much for coming on. I know this is a hard subject to discuss, but I honestly feel it needs to be discussed. And I just truly feel the wordness is not there for this specific subject. And it just needs to be.
00:59:25
Speaker
it you know It's a real thing. real It happens to real people. It happens to Not just that one article, not a celebrity. It happens to real humans who think it won't happen to them and it needs to be addressed and it needs to be discussed. So thank you truly from the bottom of our hearts for one, introducing us to this wine because I'm going to be buying this again, and but for being on and chatting with us.
00:59:47
Speaker
Yes, of course. Again, thank you for giving me the platform and into your time. really appreciate it Absolutely. Absolutely. Thanks again. But as for this show, that's a wrap. That is all we have for today.
00:59:59
Speaker
Thank you so much for listening. Don't forget to rate and review us on whatever platform you're listening on. As always, tell all your friends and keep on whining. Cheers.