Transcript
Speaker: But with these apps, it makes it very easy.
Speaker: Okay, so it has really accelerated the problem.
Speaker: And it is incredibly sad.
Speaker: And I do think a lot of women are definitely targeted.
Speaker: I like mentioned it, I worked at a job where like women would call all day because they were scammed by some guy that they met online.
Speaker: So it's like it is a prevalent issue.
Speaker: And I do think men are some men are definitely taking advantage of knowing women want to find someone and are lonely, especially if they're more elderly and they're just targeting them and taking all of their money away.
Speaker: And there's no recourse for it.
Speaker: No recourse.
Speaker: I hear you.
Speaker: And even like the dating apps won't do anything.
Speaker: So I have, even just now, I have a client who has given $250,000 to a woman online over the past three years.
Speaker: And she lives in another country, right?
Speaker: And she's probably a big fat dude that lives like in, you know, Idaho.
Speaker: Like, I don't even know where.
Speaker: I'm just saying, like, yeah.
Speaker: We don't – I'm just saying, like, I feel for anybody who is taken advantage of for being lonely.
Speaker: That's a different kind of doormat, right?
Speaker: That is just somebody who is lonely and sad and wants companionship.
Speaker: And the thing is, it's so funny because I work with these guys who –
Speaker: They have women in their lives who come into their lives who are so nice to them.
Speaker: It's kind of like AI at first, right?
Speaker: AI is so nice and so friendly and so complimentary, like makes you feel so good.
Speaker: But then they're like, oh, if I'm going to talk to you, I have to have a babysitter for my child, but I don't have any childcare right now.
Speaker: Oh, here, I'll send you $1,000.
Speaker: Like it's just that they'll have these longer relationships with these women who keep asking for little bits of money.
Speaker: And these people who they're talking to have many men that they're talking to in that way.
Speaker: And they make a lot of money every single month.
Speaker: They do.
Speaker: It's really sad and horrible.
Speaker: It's really, really horrible.
Speaker: So how does flirting play a role in long-term relationship satisfaction and emotional connection?
Speaker: Okay, well, I'm going to throw that question back at you.
Speaker: How does flirting play a role in any long-term relationship for you?
Speaker: Do you need to have flirting?
Speaker: Are you okay with it just getting into deep connection and niceness mode?
Speaker: I'm a natural flirt.
Speaker: Like I tell people like I flirt in my sleep.
Speaker: Like I don't need people to like take it personally.
Speaker: I just I'm very compliment.
Speaker: I will compliment someone.
Speaker: It's just who I am.
Speaker: And I'm not really thinking about it first.
Speaker: But I do think for me, because words of affirmation is my love language, like I need to.
Speaker: I need the flirting, without a doubt, like I need it more than I need to like see someone all the time, have all these date nights, like if somebody is just expressing themselves in a way that makes me feel good, having nice things to say, then that means a lot to me, because it's easy to forget that somebody how somebody feels if they're not saying it.
Speaker: So I think that it's really helpful for people to keep it going.
Speaker: Don't stop just because you've been with somebody for a while.
Speaker: I agree with you.
Speaker: And I think actually it's even more important as you get deeper into a relationship.
Speaker: So I agree with everything that you just said.
Speaker: I think it is essential.
Speaker: I think in the very beginning, like,
Speaker: This is the trouble that I see so many guys get into is that they'll go on dates and they'll have these nice connections with women, but there won't be any flirting.
Speaker: There's no sexuality.
Speaker: There's no.
Speaker: It's platonic.
Speaker: It's a platonic interaction.
Speaker: And the woman walks away saying, that was a nice night.
Speaker: Nothing special.
Speaker: I didn't feel anything.
Speaker: And the guy's like, oh, great.
Speaker: We laughed and we connected.
Speaker: We had a great night.
Speaker: And then they don't get a second date afterwards.
Speaker: And it's because there was no flirting.
Speaker: There was nothing sexual that was there.
Speaker: There was no ruffling feathers.
Speaker: There was no tension.
Speaker: There was no playfulness.
Speaker: There was no touching.
Speaker: There was no looking in the eyes and giving an amazing, sincere compliment, right?
Speaker: That was all void.
Speaker: And so it's essential in the beginning part of a relationship.
Speaker: But as you just said, it is
Speaker: I think 10 times more essential later on in a relationship.
Speaker: So that flirting always has to be alive.
Speaker: And it becomes challenging because life gets in the way.
Speaker: You have children, you have responsibilities, you have stress, you have work.
Speaker: And that seems to not be such an important factor because you've already got that person.
Speaker: But it's the first thing that leads to resentment, to tension, to anger, to frustration, to
Speaker: to lack of sexuality.
Speaker: So if that is not there, the relationship just completely crumbles.
Speaker: And that is weird.
Speaker: I don't think adults should be having platonic dates.
Speaker: I mean, it's funny.
Speaker: I know they exist.
Speaker: I know people have been like, was that a date?
Speaker: Because nothing happened.
Speaker: But I prefer to kiss on a first date.
Speaker: That's assuming I want to kiss that person because I don't really I don't get I don't see the point.
Speaker: I agree with you.
Speaker: I haven't dated in a long time, but like at the end I'm shaking a person's hand or giving them a hug.
Speaker: You're never going to see me naked.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So like that's what's happening.
Speaker: So if I'm not open to a kiss or if we're not making out by the end, at least a little bit, like I don't, at least in my opinion, I do not see it going anywhere.
Speaker: That's so funny.
Speaker: Like, yes, I do like to have that answer.
Speaker: It's funny, though, because I had this argument one time with a friend of mine who does not believe in that at all.
Speaker: He was just like, I don't kiss on the first date.
Speaker: And I was just like I said, I don't get the point.
Speaker: But.
Speaker: So how has, but if it works for him, right?
Speaker: Leave them wanting more.
Speaker: If he's still able to establish that, right.
Speaker: And then like in some way insinuate, I want to kiss you, but I'm holding myself back and we're going to go out again because I'm still undecided about you.
Speaker: I mean, that can work to his advantage.
Speaker: It's, it really is about like, I'm just saying as a woman, I want that first kiss and I am open to that first kiss if I've had a good time.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: I want to know.
Speaker: I want to know if something's there.
Speaker: So how has content from Manosphere creators affected how some young men view women and think they should approach and treat women?
Speaker: Because I did watch the same documentary and there's absolutely no way that...
Speaker: that that content is not harmless.
Speaker: There's absolutely no way.
Speaker: It's the same thing when the pickup artist world existed.
Speaker: I mean, it still kind of exists.
Speaker: That's like the manosphere is like the new pickup artist world.
Speaker: There's some guys who just have
Speaker: They're angry or they're bitter or they're frustrated.
Speaker: And this is how they express or regain their power is by being super harsh and super dominant towards women in demand things.
Speaker: And I just think like, yes, it can be attractive at first being around a man who is so selective and so in his own world and doesn't give a shit like that.
Speaker: It's alluring.
Speaker: I get that.
Speaker: But it can be very damaging to both people later on if that doesn't start to shift.
Speaker: Like there are so many things, even Andrew Tate, right, who I think is horrendous and awful.
Speaker: There's certain videos that I watch of his where I'm like, he's giving really good advice.
Speaker: It's just the way that he's expressing it that is so horrendous.
Speaker: And so I said the same thing about the pickup artist world.
Speaker: It's like the intention behind the advice, right?
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: If the intention is to belittle, manipulate, objectify or regain power and control, then I'm not a fan of it.
Speaker: But if the intention is like I'd like to date a cool woman who I get along with really well and I I'm an awesome guy and I want to be with somebody else who's also awesome.
Speaker: Like game on.
Speaker: Let's have fun.
Speaker: Let's be playful with each other.
Speaker: Like that, that I'm, that I am on board with.
Speaker: So like, I just, I just think that it's a bit of a reset and a reframe for many of the guys who come in.
Speaker: I mean, most of the guys who really resonate with the manosphere are not coming to me for advice.
Speaker: I don't, I don't believe they are, but I think, I think the guys who were like on the cusp who just want information, they're
Speaker: They come to me and they see what I have to say and they have like some limiting beliefs or false beliefs.
Speaker: And we help them shift those and tweak them and have their eyes be open to seeing like that's how women work and here's what really does.
Speaker: So I haven't seen it being a huge problem for me and for my audience, but I think real Manosphere people are not going to resonate with my materials.
Speaker: No, they're not.
Speaker: They're definitely not.
Speaker: I see where you're coming from, but it is frightening.
Speaker: It is really, really frightening because it's popular and I just...
Speaker: But it's so young and stupid.
Speaker: And I honestly think that young and stupid was there before.
Speaker: We're just seeing it so much more.
Speaker: And it seems bigger because it's on the Internet.
Speaker: And yes, it is influencing way more people.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I just think like younger people are just they're just trying to figure themselves out and they'll.
Speaker: And there was even guys I remember when I was younger who maybe they didn't speak about this on a YouTube video or on Instagram.
Speaker: But I know that they were talking this way behind closed doors in the locker room.
Speaker: Like I know that that message was out there.
Speaker: And some guys were like, yeah.
Speaker: And other guys were like, OK, that's kind of interesting.
Speaker: But I'm not sure I really believe.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I don't fully know my opinion on that.
Speaker: Yeah, I just I know I'm terrified by it.
Speaker: And I know that and I know that the apps are incredibly they're so much harder for men.
Speaker: You know, women are the ones who get all the messages.
Speaker: Men do not.
Speaker: And so that all contributes to a lot of their views.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: you know, because they are struggling in ways that it just didn't exist before.
Speaker: There weren't these apps where you could send a hundred messages and maybe three girls will respond to you.
Speaker: So, I mean, it's just an, it's a very ripe environment for a lot, a lot of misogyny and it,
Speaker: It is very scary.
Speaker: Well, it's a ripe environment for a lot of anger too and frustration.
Speaker: Why aren't I getting this?
Speaker: And then usually there's like an answer and solution that's provided with some YouTube video or Instagram videos and you're not getting this because women suck and here's what you got to do.
Speaker: So I like I I understand.
Speaker: I feel the same sort of fear.
Speaker: I'm actually really I have two sons.
Speaker: So it scares me that that's what's going to start coming into their algorithm at some point.
Speaker: And I'm like, luckily, they have me hopefully to balance
Speaker: I know you're gonna I believe in you I already know they're gonna be two princes they're definitely not gonna be any manosphere idiots but the thing is I don't really want them to be princes I want them to be like confident awesome guys who are a little bit cocky who know how to joke around and like I want them to be the guys that I know I'm attracted to that pull in women
Speaker: And who are also just like their dad, who are the best people, the most loyal people in the entire world.
Speaker: But it has to be earned.
Speaker: It's not just given out to anybody to be that wonderful.
Speaker: So there's a little bit of finessing that I get nervous about.
Speaker: I don't want to sway them too much in the...
Speaker: I see direction.
Speaker: I see.
Speaker: Yeah, you you sound so knowledgeable about this.
Speaker: So I'm I'm happy, though.
Speaker: They're in good hands.
Speaker: They're in good hands.
Speaker: OK, they are better.
Speaker: So what are some signs that a man is socially disconnected or struggling with confidence in relationships?
Speaker: I mean, when they come to us and they are struggling, it's because I can hear the things that are coming out of their mouths and the way that they're talking about themselves.
Speaker: That's the first sign for me that something is going on.
Speaker: It's either the way that they're talking about themselves or thinking about themselves or seeing the world, right?
Speaker: So there's like that negative spin, kind of like what you were talking about before, that there's all of this negativity around dating online.
Speaker: Like, I really believe if you're angry, you're going to find angry people.
Speaker: If you're sad, you're going to find sad people.
Speaker: And I think the men who come to us, we can see that there's lack of confidence.
Speaker: Just we'll ask them a couple of questions and in the way that they respond,
Speaker: Those are clear indicators that there is something deeper going on.
Speaker: Either they're socially removed, either they've been beaten down by their ex-wife and have all of these horrible beliefs about themselves as a man that they're not anybody of value.
Speaker: And they're literally telling it to you, too, in the way that they frame their statements, either about extreme negativity about women and how all women are out there to get you or about how they pretty much suck.
Speaker: Like they will literally spit out all of their limiting beliefs without knowing that they're.
Speaker: And that's the first sign that there's a huge confidence issue and that there's work to be done.
Speaker: So how can men rebuild their ability to read social cues and negative and navigate conversations with ease?
Speaker: So there are things called indicators of interest, IOIs.
Speaker: That's from the pickup artist world.
Speaker: And really for a lot of men,
Speaker: They are so confused about what is saying, approach me, interact with me, talk to me, kiss me, whatever it is.
Speaker: So we walk them through what the indicators of interest look like.
Speaker: So it's proximity is one of them.
Speaker: So if a woman is doing something to be close to you on a continuous basis, or even if you're out for the night and a woman is
Speaker: kind of close to you at a bar, laughing really loudly, being extreme with her expressions.
Speaker: That's an indicator of interest in some way that she's like open to you coming up and talking to her.
Speaker: Not that she wants to go home with you, just that she's open to being approached by you and then finding out more.
Speaker: And there's a million other indicators of interest.
Speaker: If a woman is, I know you can't see me on video right now, but like scratching the inside of her wrist, that's an indicator of interest.
Speaker: It's a slight indicator of discomfort, but it's an indicator of interest that there's like nervousness going on.
Speaker: There's slightly biting her lip.
Speaker: It's playing with her hair.
Speaker: It's applying lip gloss.
Speaker: It's batting her eyelashes.
Speaker: It's getting her face flushed.
Speaker: It's talking in a more feminine tone, like softer way of speaking.
Speaker: These are all the things that you look for.
Speaker: So even just making guys aware that these things exist so they can start to notice them, then they can start to stop focusing on themselves so much and look outwards to see, oh,
Speaker: She did just touch me on the shoulder right now.
Speaker: That's another one too.
Speaker: Or I touched her and she touched me back.
Speaker: Okay, that's kind of cool too.
Speaker: Or she's playing with her hair right now.
Speaker: Okay, that's cool.
Speaker: Or her cheeks are flushed.
Speaker: It's just for them to be able to see, okay, she's doing a few of these things and she's responding well to the things that I'm saying.
Speaker: All right, now I'm going to escalate to that next level and see how she responds to this next thing.
Speaker: If I flirt and she flirts back with me, that's also another indicator.
Speaker: If she pulls back when I throw something semi-flirty out there,
Speaker: then I know that she's either not up for it or she's not ready for it yet.
Speaker: Interesting.
Speaker: Phenomenal.
Speaker: I love those very relatable, useful insights.
Speaker: So have you always been comfortable talking about sex on camera?
Speaker: Because I did look through some of your or I did look through your YouTube.
Speaker: No, I have not been comfortable and I still am not comfortable.
Speaker: Because I think it takes a special kind of person to give detailed sex advisor, do sexual type of content.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: If you haven't always been comfortable, you fooled me.
Speaker: Oh, I did?
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I'm a good actress.
Speaker: I've always been comfortable talking about sex.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So in the very beginning, when I was like in doing PR for myself, Ask Men, who used to be like a big online location for like men's lifestyle information, they, or my publicist, I contacted them and they said, oh, we're actually looking for like a sex expert.
Speaker: But we don't want like psychiatrists or psychologists.
Speaker: It's too technical the way that they deliver.
Speaker: We want somebody kind of loose and fun.
Speaker: And I remember my publicist was like, are you comfortable doing videos about sex for Ask Men?
Speaker: I was like, yeah, I can.
Speaker: And I didn't know anything about that stuff.
Speaker: I wasn't an expert on sex.
Speaker: I was just giving like my point of view.
Speaker: Again, just giving the female point of view.
Speaker: And then I would research them and I would record them.
Speaker: So I just quickly became very comfortable talking about it.
Speaker: And I wanted to talk about it in the most natural way possible because sex is fun.
Speaker: natural and easy.
Speaker: But it's funny now when I do videos for my YouTube channel, I write them before I have a teleprompter.
Speaker: And the guy, Jesse, who's been like filming me for years, I'm always like, okay, another sexual one, plug your ears.
Speaker: Like it's uncomfortable, you know, with somebody else there.
Speaker: I'm like, I'm talking about fingering or squirting.
Speaker: But I think it's really important information.
Speaker: I want it to be as normalized as possible.
Speaker: But
Speaker: No, it's not 100% comfortable for me, but I know that I'm doing goodness when I'm putting the information out there, so I feel okay with it.
Speaker: And I'm sure you're going to tell your kids to keep away.
Speaker: Oh, my God, yes.
Speaker: Or they're going to want to.
Speaker: Actually, they're going to want to.
Speaker: Or their friends are going to find it.
Speaker: That's the thing that I'm so nervous for is their friends are like, oh, my God, your mom's doing a video on threesomes.
Speaker: Yeah, it's going to be horrible.
Speaker: And they'll be like, why'd you do this video?
Speaker: How do you think you're eating?
Speaker: Shut up.
Speaker: Oh my gosh.
Speaker: I'd like to think that if someone was raised confident that they could hold on to that confidence throughout their lifetime, but does your clientele span from men who haven't had a single relationship to those who've had a few divorces and kind of getting back to the confidence thing?
Speaker: Like, do you think
Speaker: That somebody could just be confident and hold on to that or that some of your clients were never confident.
Speaker: I mean, it's a mix of both for sure.
Speaker: Like some of them were never confident in this space of their life because they haven't had great experiences.
Speaker: So they get all of this negative reinforcement.
Speaker: or negative experiences and they're like I'm not good with women and I never will be but I want to be but I'm never going to be there's those guys that I work with and then I work with like a huge group of guys who have been in a relationship for a long time who are divorced I'm like okay now I'm in a new world how do I navigate this I used to be really good with women and now I don't know if I'm good with women my my ex-wife's been telling me I'm horrible with women for the past
Speaker: 20 years.
Speaker: So there's like those men who just need a few tweaks who are like, oh, yeah, I remember how to do this.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: It's like riding a bike again.
Speaker: There's other guys who are so successful in so many different areas of their lives, but this is something they never focused on before.
Speaker: So for them, it's like completely starting from scratch.
Speaker: It runs the gamut for the men that we work with.
Speaker: But I will tell you, the 95 percent of the men that we work with are some of the best men that I've ever met.
Speaker: the kindest, most respectful, most giving, most like just like the best men.
Speaker: They're the best men who just need a few tweaks.
Speaker: And then they're like the best men who also have a bit of an edge, who are charming, who know how to be great dates, who know how to plan dates, who like can rock your world in the bedroom.
Speaker: So the men that I work with are unbelievable men, but they come from a myriad of different backgrounds.
Speaker: So have you had any clients who were a lost cause?
Speaker: I mean, you mentioned 95%.
Speaker: So I'm assuming most people.
Speaker: And it's a lost cause only because they're not ready yet.
Speaker: That's the only reason that they're a lost cause.
Speaker: There's some people who either have addiction issues, who have mental health issues.
Speaker: And like, we'll usually say you have to get that sorted before we can do anything.
Speaker: We can't, we can't.
Speaker: None of our tools are going to work if you've got these things going on.
Speaker: And there's other guys who just have a huge anger problem or like limiting belief problem, which means they have a barrier and we can't work past that barrier.
Speaker: Like I say this to every guy who's in our program.
Speaker: This is a done with you program, not a done for you program.
Speaker: We can't do it.
Speaker: If you're not willing to show up, if you're not willing to do the work, if you're not willing to try things like this is not going to work just because you read something doesn't mean you're you're different and you're cured and you're you're going to be successful.
Speaker: You have to apply the things you have to practice to follow your face and try again.
Speaker: But I will tell you that the guys who do go through our program, I have a whole bunch of programs at the main live program that we have, which is called the inner circle.
Speaker: they're all successful.
Speaker: We have a Slack.
Speaker: We have Slack that we use for work.
Speaker: And we have a Slack channel called Success Stories, which is just, I could just scroll on forever of pictures of guys who are engaged now, who have girlfriends, who guys, yeah, it's amazing, who like, my wife hated me and now she's like wanting to have sex with me all the time.
Speaker: Like just unbelievable story.
Speaker: It's great.
Speaker: It's awesome.
Speaker: So my last question before I want to say a few things off record.
Speaker: So what are some practical exercises men can do to become more socially fluent and comfortable in conversations?
Speaker: The other, the things that they can do.
Speaker: I have two tools.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So one is called OSA, O-S-A, and one is called L-C-A, Listen, Confirm, Affirm.
Speaker: So OSA is for engaging for the first time, and you can use it on repeat even throughout conversations, but it's a way to engage a conversation, start a conversation without making it feel forced or
Speaker: or like you're trying to sell something.
Speaker: It's a way of talking to women as if you already know them.
Speaker: Because when you talk to them as if you already know them, their barriers to entry drop a lot faster.
Speaker: They feel more comfortable with you and they feel safer.
Speaker: So it's OSA.
Speaker: So instead of saying like, hi, my name is Todd and I saw you from over there and I wanted to talk to you.
Speaker: You just, you use an observation.
Speaker: So if you're at Starbucks, you go, oh my God, those muffins smell amazing.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: That's an observation.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And then you do a share.
Speaker: OK, those muffins smell amazing.
Speaker: I'm disgusting, but I have those every single morning.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Like I'm that's your share about yourself.
Speaker: And then the ask, what are you going to get today?
Speaker: Or what are you here for?
Speaker: So it's just, but it's a way to engage with everybody where it's like, I know you, I can tell you I'm disgusting because I eat muffins every single morning.
Speaker: And they're like, I think these ones smell amazing today.
Speaker: And then it's just like bringing you into my world.
Speaker: So that's the one tool for conversation.
Speaker: The other tool is called LCA, which this is where a lot of men have difficulty with.
Speaker: It's that they can ask a lot of questions, but they can't really listen and show that they hear what's being said to them.
Speaker: And one of the most magical things that you can do in conversation and to make her feel special, one of the S's, and to have you seem selective, which is one of the other S's, is that you tell her that because of what she said, you do this in a subliminal way, there's something you like about her more now.
Speaker: She's got like five points in your book, right?
Speaker: So LCA is listen, confirm, affirm.
Speaker: So you listen to what she said.
Speaker: So you make eye contact.
Speaker: You confirm that you've heard what she said.
Speaker: So you can nod or you can even say it back to her.
Speaker: Oh, wow.
Speaker: You were a dancer when you were younger.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Whatever it is, you just are repeating it back to her.
Speaker: And then you affirm.
Speaker: And the affirm is saying that.
Speaker: And this is the meaning behind it, but not the words that you say.
Speaker: Like, now that I know this about you.
Speaker: I like you a little bit more.
Speaker: That's what you're trying to say in the words.
Speaker: So it can be like, oh, I was a dancer when I was younger and I really liked doing it because it made me closer to my mother because she was a dancer too.
Speaker: Whatever it is that she's saying to you, it has to be a landing moment that has impact.
Speaker: And then you listen, then you nod your head that you heard that.
Speaker: That's pretty amazing that you did something that was challenging to you, but because you knew it was important to your mom, you pushed through it
Speaker: And you made it into your own passion.
Speaker: That's a badass in my mind.
Speaker: Like something like that, right?
Speaker: Where you're just appreciating her, not just because she's pretty or because she danced, but because of something she did and that showed you who she was as a person.
Speaker: And because of it, you're like, I like you more.
Speaker: You just got some points in my book.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: Well, it does be Marnie, the phenomenal Marnie, the very pretty, very smart, fun.
Speaker: I like being on your show.
Speaker: You're so complimentary.
Speaker: No, I'm serious.
Speaker: I know your words of affirmation, too.
Speaker: So I will say that right back to you.
Speaker: I can't see you.
Speaker: So I don't know how pretty you are.
Speaker: But I saw your picture in other places and you're very attractive.
Speaker: But you're just like really easy to talk to.
Speaker: So thank you.
Speaker: And like, thanks for having me on and making this really comfortable and putting me at ease.
Speaker: Well, I wanted to say, do you have a preferred platform that you like people to follow you on?
Speaker: Yeah, I would say go listen to my podcast.
Speaker: Go to go to anywhere that you can listen to podcasts.
Speaker: But I would say Spotify.
Speaker: But go and listen to Turn Her On with Marnie.
Speaker: OK, awesome.
Speaker: Well, thank you so much.
Speaker: I want to talk to you a little bit after.
Speaker: But yeah, thank you.
Speaker: This is just absolutely incredible.
Speaker: OK, thank you.
Speaker: All right.
