Transcript
Speaker: um Today we have Allie Eisman. She is the very first kink-aware professional that I will ever speak or that I'm ever speaking with. And she's a relationship coach. She works with people on kinks. She talks about jealousy. She talks about non-monogamy and modern dating.
Speaker: So she just knows everything that we're curious about that I'm curious about. a Welcome, Allie. Thank you so much for being here. You look amazing, even though people can't see you.
Speaker: Take your word for it. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, your hair is really incredible. So um this is a very basic question, but I think it might be somewhat common.
Speaker: um Some people don't know the difference. How would you describe what a kink is versus what a fetish is? Oh, what a great question. Thank you so much for asking that. Yeah. And and I want to be clear, you know, I'm i'm a relationship coach. i have clients all over the world um in all kinds of different relationships. These are the conversations that I wish everyone would have while they're dating before, you know, at any point really along what I call their relationship trip, right? It's an ongoing exploration. So, There's no one type of person who's interested in asking kinky questions or things like that. We're all curious and curiosity is a great place to come from. And you don't have to be into whips and change to be, you know, considered kinky. So let's just start there, right? This conversation is for everyone, even if you're just curious, actually, especially if you're just curious.
Speaker: So starting out with the difference between what is a kink and a fetish and that the easiest way to really explain the difference is curiosity or interest versus necessity, right? So kink is an interest in something we were were curious or we enjoy, you know, XYZ that can look anything from different positions to utilizing different tools when we're engaging in sensual or internet activities. And the difference between a kink and a fetish is a fetish crosses into the need for the thing in order to get aroused. So the difference being
Speaker: you know, enjoying the thing. And then the thing is actually what you need in order to get aroused. So kink is that curiosity, that enjoyment, that play. We love trying those things. And the fetish is the requirement and the need for that thing in order to get aroused.
Speaker: It's interesting you put it that way because i was speaking to someone yesterday and they were saying, what's the difference? Because I was talking about this upcoming interview. And I said to them that a kink is like a sexual act.
Speaker: ah Whereas a fetish is like a preference. And like my definition by any means, like your definition obviously is the correct one. um Like, no, so so there's there's a few different ways that people within this space will talk about it And so what I'm pulling from, which actually used a really important word there, preference, A kink really is a preference. A fetish is is a need, right? So but different people will quantify them somewhat differently. And that's why it's really important to learn from multiple people.
Speaker: In addition to learning from multiple people, also having the conversations with each other rather than assuming the person you're on a date with or that you're going to the play party with or assuming that the partner you've been with for 10 years has the same understanding of a word that you do.
Speaker: They probably don't. And that's why it's really important to come from curiosity and ask, hey, when you say this is a kink for you, what do you mean? That's that super key. yeah I love that. So you're an international relationship coach.
Speaker: And when, you know, throughout your work, when do you think that someone should share their fetishes and kinks with their partner? Do you find that some couples or the majority of couples wait years, months, we years, decades explore their sexual preferences and curiosities because they fear that the truth may be a deal breaker?
Speaker: oh yeah. there's There's a couple really important things to talk about in that question. So I wish people were talking about sexual compatibility as a part of the entire compatibility conversation.
Speaker: But we we do exist in in what's called a sex negative culture where sex is not necessarily celebrated. It's simultaneously you know required and important, but also we never talk about it, right? and So we don't have these tools. So yeah, I wish people were having just at least a general conversation of like, hey, sex is really important to me. in a long-term committed relationship? Is it important to you? Is it something you're interested in working on long-term and being curious about and playing? Or is it sort of take it or leave it for you? Like even that level is so, so valuable, right? Like regardless of your kinks for your fetishes, just being able to have the conversation of, hey, is this an area of life that is A, important to you?
Speaker: And B, an area you're interested in exploring and being curious about lifelong. you know Those are so much more important than specific kinks necessarily. And also, we don't always know what we're interested right out the gate, right? You can be dating somebody in your 20s and not discover something about yourself until your thirty s or forty s The important thing is having a relationship where you can bring that to the table.
Speaker: Hey, I've just learned about this new thing. I'm actually really curious to try it. Are you interested in? And then being able to have the conversation of whether or not both of you are interested in and trying it together, or if there's an agreement that you can create where in something you can try with either a professional or another partner or whatever those boundaries look like. The key is being able to have the conversation without judgment, deflection, avoidance, shame, blame, et cetera, and really being committed to finding the right container where everyone can explore what they need to.
Speaker: You know, it I fully, i sigh i co-sign on everything you say. i Actually, um i have a chapter in my book where I talk about basically i do not go on a first date without knowing if I'm sexually compatible with somebody. And what I mean by that specifically is like libido wise, like I ask them up front,
Speaker: how often would you like to have sex in your ideal relationship? um Yes. Take notes, everybody. i out Yes. I think it's some of my best advice that I'm here spilling it on the podcast. It's in my book.
Speaker: But I ask them that. I also ask what they're into. um You know what I mean when it comes in the bedroom? But I ask those two questions because i am going to hear answers that are not compatible to me ah with me. I don't know.
Speaker: How should phrase that. So it's like if somebody, um if they want sex all the time or not at all, I'll just be obvious and use those to a wide spectrum.
Speaker: Then I know that I want somebody who's in the middle. I only meet up with people whose answers are similar to mine. And what I truly believe is these people are hoping to find their match.
Speaker: So somebody who wants it 10 times a week is not going to tell you once a week. Somebody who wants it once a week is not going to tell you eight times a week. They're hoping to find somebody who's similar.
Speaker: And so i whatever they say, it typically, and I'll like ask more questions, it is what they're used to, what they prefer, what they want. You seem to want to say something. Yeah, I was going to first and foremost, I love that you're having this conversation with people right out the gate. It's such an important conversation to be having, an important part of of the whole conversation, right? Yeah.
Speaker: The only bump I'm hearing, couple of different things, right? The what are you into question, like, let's open that up a little bit. They might not know. And also, they might be interested in something with you that they've never been interested in before, right? Like I have, you know, my partner right now, there's there's certain things that he is surprising himself that he's curious about.
Speaker: because he's never had a partnership where that was even possible or able to be talked about or or whatever it is for him, he felt safe enough to even investigate that within himself. like There's things that he would not, you know if you had asked him that question couple years, you know we've been together a couple of years now, if I had asked him that question at the beginning, and he wouldn't have listed that.
Speaker: And it's something I'm i'm interested in, but um'm it's not like a deal breaker for me. So that's it's a great thing to get the conversation started. But I think there's ways to ask both that and, you know, the frequency question that are a bit and more of an invitation. So rather than how, you know, how how often do you like to have sex? If you think of the relationship in your past where you felt the most satisfied, you know, like how frequently were you having sex?
Speaker: Because when you're talking about what people are looking for, People can be focused on finding a partner, which is different than finding compatibility. We have a very mission-oriented culture where a relationship is like a thing that you get, where it's like a destination you arrive at. It's a marker of social status and success and things like that. So the focus can be on just getting that relationship. So i'm going to answer whatever way I think She wants me to, you know, what's what's going to Google really quick. Average number of times. oh were having fun that I mean, I it's so funny talking to you, having your expertise because you're spot on with the way that you see things.
Speaker: um A hundred percent. Like when it comes to when I ask what people are into, I fully agree. Like some people, they could like one thing at one point and they don't know that they like something else later on. But at the same time, if somebody this you know, likes a certain thing and that they've been doing for, let's say a decade.
Speaker: Yeah. person they're talking to will not do that. They are not compatible. So what's something you've always wanted to try that you've never gotten to? What's something you're curious about or nervous about even broaching? What's your favorite sexual memory?
Speaker: You know, what's no, week that's good. That's all. now It's your job to be asking those questions. But based those are the conversations people can be having. These these are the ways we can invite. Yeah, 100 percent. But I do think it's a great baseline. Or if somebody loves a certain thing and that's what they are used to and the person they're talking to absolutely will not do that, then they shouldn't proceed.
Speaker: So that's what I mean when I'll like talk to people and if they're into things that I'm not, then we shouldn't proceed because that's just not fair to both of us.
Speaker: Even though, as you said, there is room for growth and exploration, but if what they love is what I hate, then we shouldn't go anywhere. And I just wish more people would have that conversation, as you said, upfront, absolutely instead of finding that out later.
Speaker: But as far as the frequency, especially as you're older, you know, the people that you talk to, they've had a lot of relationships. So they have a pretty... good understanding of what they want and what they prefer.
Speaker: So I do believe the people, um or I do believe I'm getting the honest answers because they're just telling me about the relationships they've had and what it's been like. I don't believe that they're trying to tell me anything just to like reel me in.
Speaker: I think that they're, i' I'm usually just like, it's obvious that they're being very odd honest, is like this is what I want. And I'll be like, okay. And you know, if it works for me,
Speaker: I'll go with it. But it is funny, though, how afraid I think some people are to explore. So I'm glad that your partner is open to that, because that is part of when I talk to people, I always ask. I make it very known, like, are you open to exploring? Because a lot of people are not.
Speaker: and yeah And that's not my preference. So it's really important for me to be with somebody who is not closed off because a lot, a lot of men in particular are extremely closed off.
Speaker: I would wager it's not beholden to gender. There's a lot of fear around that because most people haven't been, um i don't have a statistical number, but a lot of people have never been in a relationship where it's safe to even be curious or ask those questions, right? So they've never even, their nervous system has never even experienced an environment where they get to try that. Right. So, you know, if that doesn't mean you have to be with every single person, you know, you, you get to decide how, you know, where you want to be met and where you want to meet people. Right. Like, you know, I'm not interested in coaching in my relationships, my personal relationships. Um,
Speaker: But just because somebody's never experienced it before or has fear around it doesn't mean there is not, you know, potential. So that's why I say I look for qualities, not necessarily like ticked boxes. Like, are you somebody who is umm curious and growth oriented in other parts of your life? Do you show up as somebody that way? That's a higher likelihood that they might be open to in the right environment with the right partner. Like, you know, yourself, a safe person who's curious and open to those, you know, potentially uncomfortable conversations.
Speaker: they might blossom a bit, right? So, I mean, how do you determine if a couple is right for non-monogamy? Because obviously it's not for everyone. So how are you able to, what are the indicators? What are the signs? How solid or the beliefs, the how solid of a foundation do they have? Like, how how are you able to distinguish who what couples are right for non-monogamy?
Speaker: i would I would say the question's bigger. What couples are also you know right for monogamy? It doesn't have a great track record, right? It's about finding the relationship structure that supports you and the person you're becoming, not the memory of who you once were.
Speaker: So monogamy doesn't serve a lot of people either, right? So it's not necessarily who's ready for non-monogamy. It's helping people understand their actual needs And I use a four quadrant, two plane model for you know exclusivity and need, the hierarchy of exclusivity, both on the sexual plane and on the emotional plane, right? Because those are not the same needs. Our need for exclusivity sexually might not be the same need as we have it for you know emotionally or romantically or vice versa. So actually building a relationship that supports the individual needs and and enables those people to interact successfully, ideally long term.
Speaker: So it's less about that. it's it's It's the same questions, whether it's monogamy or non-monogamy, right? Like, are you avoiding something? Are you running away from something?
Speaker: Or are you moving towards something? Because you can do that in any relationship structure. So but I'm guessing that your clients, um and this is an assumption, and baseless assumption, I have no idea.
Speaker: Do your clients expect you to practice what you preach? Like, do your clients come to you and say, have you had non-monogamous relationships? And I think that there there's a lot of folks who are, the folks who are specifically curious in that, because i work with couples in all kinds of relationships, right? I have monogamous clients as well. But I think the folks that are curious, it's it's it's comforting and confidence-inducing for them to see how public I am and open and comfortable I am talking about my dynamic, which, you know, I've been practicing consensual non-monogamy for over a decade now. And it's very, very supportive to enabling me to show up the way I want to in my relationships, to love the way I love, to be fully...
Speaker: express, safe, secure, et cetera. And so I think that enables people seeing it modeled, right? Breeds confidence. And so they feel more comfortable maybe talking to me because they they know that I'm already in that practice.
Speaker: um And it can be a little daunting for folks who maybe aren't interested in that, right? But what I don't do is preach a specific kind of relationship. I coach people in learning the skillset that we call relationship because it is a skillset.
Speaker: it's not It's not an object we get or a destination that we arrive at. It's a skill set that we learn and develop and hone throughout our whole lives. We're constantly in relationship, but we're never actually learning how to do that in a way that is, again, supporting who we're growing into rather than just, you know, built for a memory of who we once were.
Speaker: So it's a really important skill set to have. So, yeah, I mean, so to answer your question, I think, yeah, I think it does. It does. help people who want to have, who are nervous, because it's nervous. Like it it it's scary to have that conversation because we have a whole world built around this is the one thing, this is the one way to do it, right? So if you want anything else, there's something wrong with you.
Speaker: And so it can be very, very scary when you don't have any representation around you about that. You don't know the statistics that actually show it's nowhere near as small a portion of the population as people think it is. And that sort of a thing. So that's why I'm so public about it, because it it helps people ask those questions. Whether or not they end up wanting to explore an open relationship, the important part is being able to talk about it.
Speaker: Yeah, and I think obviously it's cultural. Other cultures are not so closed off to it um as we are in comparison some other cultures. But do you see when your when someone is in a non-monogamous relationship, do you think it's something that they should just take day by day as far as transitioning into closing it off?
Speaker: Like, is it something that you have just dealt with day to day and or your client? Because from my perspective of not being familiar with that world, I just think it's something that hopefully both people obviously want to be in at the same time and or want to end at the same time.
Speaker: So is it just a go with the flow you see how you you both are feeling and you take it from there. Kind of. far as how long it goes, how long a relationship is open for.
