Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Week 15 - A Splash of Cold Cheese to the Face
32 Plays11 months ago
Tristan and Miles talk about highs and lows on the offensive line, what happens when you save up your draft picks, and the legacy of Mike Holmgren.
Recommended
Transcript
Wake-Up Calls: Seahawks vs Packers
00:00:00
Tristan Amundson
Miles, wake up calls hit us at different points in our life. You know you can have a wake up call maybe maybe with your significant other and you realize I need to change my ways. Maybe a wake up call is something as simple as um being at a hotel right and and asking the front desk, hey, I need to wake up at 5 a.m. Would you please give me that wake up call to jar me out of my slumber and help me get on with my day. On Sunday, it seems to me that the Seahawks received a wake-up call. It came in the form of cheese. It came in the form of a beating from a great running back. Have you had any wake-up calls in your life that are similar to this, Miles, that you can but you can think of?
00:00:56
M dub
Justin, as you know, my wake up call comes 5 a.m. every morning from the rooster, maybe even beating the rooster up to the sunrise so I can come into pro dot.nfl dot.com and slam down a few hours of Seahawks tapes. so I'm ready to go for the day. I would say in the world of wake up calls, this was the equivalent of maybe two or three of your enemies kind of coming into your bedroom with ah pots and pans and and having a field day with it.
00:01:27
M dub
That's the kind of wake up.
00:01:27
Tristan Amundson
Yeah.
00:01:28
M dub
that's not that's That's never happened to me. I think that's the type of wake up call we're talking about when we look at this football game.
Offensive Struggles and Key Injuries
00:01:38
Tristan Amundson
Give us some stats on this wake up call, man. What, how bad was it? I mean, give me, give me some numbers when we think about the pots and pans, um, you know, yeah help me understand how, how disruptive it was. I'm, I'm, I'm in my bed. I got my down comforter on, and then suddenly I just hear that the clanging of, of pots and pans. What are the numbers behind it?
00:02:04
M dub
ah Pretty simple. 30 to 13 was the final score to the Green Bay Packers on national TV. I don't think there's a lot of numbers that get more instructive than that. It's a pretty big gap. The other one would be total yards on offense. I think we've seen through the four game winning streak that the offense was doing enough to get by. Is that how we might describe it? um Didn't quite hold up their end of the bargain today. Had 208 yards in total on offense.
00:02:33
M dub
ah The last time we got this sad was um the loss to the Buffalo Bills, which was also a blowout at home. In that game, even though there's a lot of garbage time to it, the Seahawks had 233 yards of total offense. And they ah for most of the games of the year, they've had over 300 yards of offense. um We're getting really close down to the territory. Sorry to go back to another wake up call, but that The franchise changing 37-3 loss to the Ravens last year. That was 151 yards of total offense on the day. So this game was pretty darn close to, it was closer to that Ravens loss than it was to the the average game played in 2024.
00:03:20
Tristan Amundson
Pretty rough, man. Pretty pretty rough game. um Hopefully jarring for for the entire team. Can I be Pollyanna here a little bit? Can I can i look on the bright side?
00:03:31
Tristan Amundson
um As I know, our listeners, their their teeth, their teeth's teeth, gnashing of teeth. I don't know how I would polarize that, but they're beaks.
00:03:39
M dub
Their beaks.
00:03:41
Tristan Amundson
They're gnashing their beaks out there. can Can I try to be a little bit of a cheerleader? I know it's ah a deep voice cheerleader over here. but
00:03:49
M dub
Absolutely. Before you do, I did. I was, for some reason I was on Twitter a lot after this game, seeing what Seahawks nation was saying. I was shocked.
00:03:58
Tristan Amundson
but It's a very healthy place to be.
00:03:59
M dub
I was shocked. I did it. Not that I had, I wasn't going to come out with a lot of positive points about the game, but nonetheless, I was shocked to read what I was reading on there.
00:04:09
M dub
I shouldn't have been. It's 2024 Twitter's been around for a while. So yes, I would love to hear a Pollyanna take on the game.
00:04:17
Tristan Amundson
so So here's my first my first thought. We're coming off of a four game winning streak. A loss was gonna come, right? We knew we weren't gonna run the table before the end of the year. So I think that that's maybe my my my first point. We are coming off of a four game win streak. We need to acknowledge that. I think the other side of it that I look at is but if you look at the remaining schedule, and I guess this is very well connected to that,
00:04:46
Tristan Amundson
You needed to win or you would like to win. I think needed is is actually probably true. Either the Green Bay game or this upcoming Minnesota game. do Do you agree with that? That's kind of the gauntlet as we looked at it even last week. You need one of these two games. you don't To have both would be wonderful. We all want to win every game, but ultimately we needed one of the two.
00:05:09
Tristan Amundson
Now you'd rather win the first one and lose the second one. that That feels a little easier. Now we really do have to have to bring it. um But I do think that we're in a position where there's some good learning. and Listen, I don't know if you're going to agree with me. Push back, please. As I watch this game, I didn't find I should, I should take a step back. When I first watched this game, I was very upset. I, as, as everyone you watch it, those first two drives, we're just getting Molly whopped. This is terrible. As we went along in the game and as I watched it the second time, that's really what I should say at second watch, which I will say the best thing about doing this podcast with you miles is.
00:05:59
Tristan Amundson
watching a game a second time is just totally, it's a totally different animal for me. I watched the first game as a fan full of
Opportunities for Improvement
00:06:06
Tristan Amundson
motion. I watched the second game. I'm just watching plays. And when I watch it the second time,
00:06:13
Tristan Amundson
What I noticed is this, the defense was horrendous. The first couple of drives, we all know that they made adjustments. They got way better. You suddenly were tackling in the backfield. They were getting a lot of foreign outs or three and outs. I should say forcing punts. They were doing the right things, getting a ah key fumble, et cetera.
00:06:34
Tristan Amundson
I think the big difference in this game, because the defense has done this before where where Mike will make an adjustment. And now the second half, the defense is doing much better. And we've won those games or some of those games at least because Gino is really good at the comeback. And Gino's really good at, Hey, sorry, I threw this interception, but here's two touchdowns for you and kind of erasing some of those mistakes of the first half.
00:06:58
Tristan Amundson
We didn't get an opportunity with that this game because Gino got hurt. um Not to mention his starting center got hurt. So I guess my my thesis of this game is, if Gino continues to play, is it a different result? Maybe. I mean, at the very least, maybe. I think it would have been a lot more compelling. um So that that gives me gives me some room for hope. Also, they were moving the ball pretty well outside of the red zone. That's a big caveat. Red zone's pretty important.
00:07:27
Tristan Amundson
But they were moving the ball pretty well. They were getting some big plays. JSN continues to be a star, which is really fun to see. I did notice, I think he has 998 yards on the season. he's He is right next to a thousand, which must drive him nuts. Like, why can't I be at the, come on, let's give me that extra thousand yards. But it's crazy to think JSN is going to have a 1200 yard season, you know, 1300 yards season this year, which is, which is pretty cool. So tell me I'm an idiot. Help me push back. I, I know I'm, I'm being way too positive.
00:08:01
M dub
um Well, JSN is sixth in the league in receiving yards so far this year, which is that is as optimistic as we like to be around here. I don't think that's something either of us saw coming. So so that's on the optimistic side.
00:08:15
M dub
um I do. it It is true that the defense definitely improved in the second half and create, and especially with the fumble, a great force fumble. Um, and yes, starting to get a lot of tackles for loss. And really the Packers ran the ball a lot of times. They didn't end up running the ball for that many, that great of a yards per carry by the end of the night. But, um,
00:08:39
M dub
This was a game that made me reflect, as I will later, on the years-long building process that like got both of these teams to this point. I do think we've seen, on several times this year, pretty much every occasion with the c but where the Seahawks lost, they're losing to, they're just not quite able to bust ah make any mark on the the teams in that top 10 of any sort of power rankings.
00:09:06
M dub
And I think this was
00:09:06
Tristan Amundson
Yep.
00:09:08
M dub
ah a hard, running into a hard, hard ceiling. Let's say that your enemies come into the room, they bang the pots and pans, you sit up in your bed and you you hit the ceiling right there because the the ceiling's lower than you'd like it to be.
00:09:23
M dub
And I think that's a great analogy for what just happened. I think they said, did they say that one on ESPN about the pans and the ceiling? Sorry if I'm repeating what's already been said in the media. I know traditional ground, but
00:09:34
Tristan Amundson
I mean, i I think that that is patent pending, Miles Ray. I think yeah that's, you own that, which is, I wish I owned that, that that'd be very nice. um No, man, listen, I don't, obviously I don't totally disagree with you. And it it was it was just a rough game to watch. It was a rough game to watch. My hope is we got Mike, we got we got this young defensive um savant,
00:10:03
Tristan Amundson
the The hope is that the adjustments can be made for Minnesota. Minnesota, I think, will cause a lot of serious or or similar problems. I think the Minnesota game, though, will be the last chance for the Seahawks team to beat an upper middle class team, right? I i think we've feasted on the lower class teams. I think we've done well against the middle class of the league.
00:10:26
Tristan Amundson
Clearly we just we just face the upper middle class and and they smacked us we've already faced the upper class and they smacked us meaning the lines in the bills like we've had a couple of class clashes that haven't gone our way we've had a few middle class clashes that that have gone different directions.
00:10:46
Tristan Amundson
We have one last chance to, to put on some quality tape against upper middle class, which I think is Minnesota. You know, I don't think they're the top top echelon, but I think they're right there with green
Offensive Line Challenges
00:10:57
Tristan Amundson
Bay there. They're one of the good teams, really good teams in this league. So I think it'll be fun to just to see, you know, can this team beat that or will, and I think I said this earlier in the year.
00:11:11
Tristan Amundson
Will this just be a team that we can beat the middle class? And that's, that's kind of it. Like we're a middle-class team and that's kind of our, our range. i We don't know the answer. I think, I think we have an inkling that the answer might be that, that it might be, Hey, this is a ah good middle-class team. We're not upper middle class at this point.
00:11:30
M dub
that That's what I would predict but would happen on Sunday. um So the the big problem in this game, ah and it was a problem on both sides in the first half, was was just simply getting beat at the line of scrimmage. And the defense was able to fix those problems in the second half. And for the offense, it just continued to get worse, um I would say. And we should mention, Geno Smith gets knocked out in the third quarter of this game. Sam Howell has to come in.
00:11:57
M dub
I'm not ready to give up on Sam Howell just yet. It was statistically speaking, that the type of night that that I'm sure did cause a lot of people to give up hope on Sam Howell.
00:12:08
M dub
The only reason is the Packers defense was just already cooking. yeah Already, I mean, everything everything was going and there wasn't, you you know, that's that's her really a really tough situation to come in cold.
00:12:15
Tristan Amundson
Yep.
00:12:22
M dub
So um not that I... I'm not so optimistic about ah trading a third round pick for Sam Howell anymore as I was in the off season. as And as you were were pessimistic about it, this game definitely changed my opinion on that. But yeah, so the offensive lab, there were ah NFL dot.com in the film room, they categorized 14 plays as pressures given up by the Seahawks offensive line to the Packers defense.
00:12:52
M dub
Tristan, I went back. I watched all of them. I watched all of them and I kept a little tally of just to this this uneducated eye, you know, not knowing the play call and so forth. I wanted to know who was at fault. And sometimes it's pretty obvious one on one getting beat. Sometimes it's not obvious, you know, guys are passing people off. There's twists and stunts and stuff like that.
00:13:15
M dub
So on a lot of plays, I counted two people being at fault. So this this number is going to add up to more than 14 here. ah So here we go.
00:13:26
M dub
Ready for the tally?
00:13:27
Tristan Amundson
I'm ready.
00:13:28
M dub
I got Zach Charbonnet at four. Not something you didn't see that coming, did you? i ah Not always the best past pass protection from Zach Charbonnet. Lincoln Tomlinson at six, Sathaua La Maia at four, Abe Lucas at four, Charles Cross at four. Believe it or not, Jalen Sundell at only one, although I think that was the play where Gino got hurt.
00:13:49
M dub
but Man, I think that's the problem right there is there's not ah just one hole in the ship. it was ah you know we We see each player, each of these offensive line then making great plays in each game. And then we also see, ah yeah, the the issues are are all around. It's not just because of the injuries or or at at one spot or something like that. Another thing that I was keeping track of is were the Packers blitzing? Because my assumption was that
00:14:20
M dub
They were just blitzing a lot and just kind of overwhelming and, you know, this, this unit, you know, it's changing every week and the ah lack of communication or, you know, experienced communicating. That wasn't really the case either. So the Packers blitzed on four of those pressures and they didn't blitz on 10, but there was really a trend where as the game went on, you could see that the Green Bay defensive minds were realizing that they did not have to blitz to get home.
00:14:48
M dub
And they definitely, I don't think they blitzed once when Sam Howell was in the game. They were just relying on four man rushes to get home. And yeah, it's so it's it's a big problem.
00:14:59
M dub
And it's like, a man, even you know Charles Cross, first rounder, you know giving up the pretty much the same number of pressures ah as everybody else.
00:15:05
Tristan Amundson
Yeah.
00:15:07
M dub
So yeah, it's not just one swap or one injury that got us that got us here. It really was, um it was a it was everybody.
00:15:15
Tristan Amundson
It was a team. It was a team effort when you bring up a great point, because even that Charbonnet run um that that we saw, and we can talk about it now or later, but that Charbonnet run, Sundell has a beautiful block, right? He's blocking down the field. he's He's engaged. He's doing his thing. And that same guy, you know, gives up a massive sack that it's a Purton Geno.
00:15:39
Tristan Amundson
um So it is interesting. It would be easier if you could say, oh, you know, they're bad all the time, throw them out. But these guys are having moments of brilliance and then moments of, you know, just disaster. So how do you reconcile those two thoughts? I'm i'm not quite sure.
00:15:59
M dub
Yeah, me neither. And I think we saw that just, Gino is still third of the NFL in passing guards and JSN is sixth in receiving yards.
00:16:06
Tristan Amundson
Yeah.
00:16:07
M dub
I mean, but those really looked, I think you really saw how, how thankless the job that Gino has back there and and how much he really is doing once you
Geno Smith's Performance and Injury
00:16:20
M dub
saw Sam Howell. I did want to mention one of those pressures was the interception that Gino threw in the red zone and I know that the temptation is to say how you know the decision-making from Gino this year another red zone interception He is getting smoked by two guys, kind of at the point that the ball is getting released.
00:16:35
Tristan Amundson
Yeah.
00:16:37
M dub
And so to me, that just, we'll never know the story of that throw and what Gino was really looking at, because you really need to be very precise to be quarterback.
00:16:48
M dub
And if you're, you know, if the whole thing's just bobble in just a millimeter, um which it probably is as two guys are simultaneously there to sack you, um it's probably not going to go exactly where you were imagining or any of the, you know, then the whole, by the time view the camera looks down that the guys at the end zone, you know, they're in a whole different, you know, position from, cause the ball traveled differently, you know? So anyway, I, I don't, I but i just, yeah, yeah. It'd be, it's a hard thing Geno's doing back there and it it has led to a lot of red zone mistakes. And I think that's more of a ah symptom of the offensive line than, than how Geno's playing the position necessarily.
00:17:29
Tristan Amundson
No and to your point I mean we've seen it when he has time he is unbelievable out there you know he's a marksman and so so these pressures like any quarterback I mean Listen, we both watched enough of Tom Brady to see Tom Brady was a brilliant quarterback unless he had massive pressure on him, right? So it is kind of the kryptonite of all quarterbacks, Captain Obvious, um that if you can get to him, you can really mess him up and and, you know, seven sacks, right? This is this is no different. That's a ah massive ah
00:18:01
Tristan Amundson
um massive disruption to the game. So hopefully Geno's able to play. I really will say we we don't have any hope but um if he's not able to play against Minnesota. So um I've actually already sent some frozen peas from my freezer. I've been kind of holding on to a special bag of frozen peas. I put them in um a FedEx box. I put some some dry ice in there. I sent them straight to the VMAX. So he should be getting those at least by Saturday, because I didn't want to pay for the really expedited shipping.
00:18:34
M dub
It's pretty expensive, yeah.
00:18:34
Tristan Amundson
um Yeah, so it's going to be a ground type thing, but I'm hoping they're still frozen by the time you get some. And, you know, we just want to help any way we can.
00:18:43
M dub
I really appreciate you thinking about that, Tristan. And I do know that was a special bag of peas to you. You weren't just going to use that on any occasion. I do feel like, um so we're recording this on Tuesday afternoon. I've been checking Mr. Brady Henderson's Twitter like a madman.
00:19:03
M dub
Can we get some answers here? what What's going on with this knee? you know ah And so I'm not, I wouldn't be surprised if Geno's out.
Draft Strategies: Packers vs Seahawks
00:19:14
M dub
We haven't really gotten word one way or the other.
00:19:16
M dub
And to me, I'm just kind of wondering if they want the Vikings to have to do all their homework, even if Geno doesn't play. I'm not going to be, I'm not going to be surprised. um Yeah.
00:19:28
M dub
If we get to Sunday and it turns out that it's Mr. Sam Hal back there. Just my thought.
00:19:32
Tristan Amundson
That's interesting. Yeah. Well, I mean, Mike has definitely done that throughout this year, right? He's very, he keeps it close to the chest way more than, than Pete used to. So, um, yeah, I could see either way that going where he's going to talk a lot about Sam this week and Gino ends up playing or, or vice versa, talk a lot about Gino and Sam it's a plane. So yeah, that'll be, that'll be interesting to, to track for the rest of the week.
00:19:57
M dub
My guess is it's a situation. I mean, these things aren't so cut and dry. You know, I mean, you know, like literally speaking, you know, Gina's got to go home on Sunday night and then, you know, drive in and on Monday morning and, you know, you got to figure out what's up, you know, so I wouldn't be surprised if they don't know the answer right now.
00:20:16
Tristan Amundson
No, I'm sure they don't.
00:20:16
M dub
ah ah Yeah.
00:20:17
Tristan Amundson
Yeah. Yeah. I'm i'm sure they don't. And yeah bodies are weird, right? I mean, he could wake up on Thursday and say, Oh, this feels way better than it did on Wednesday. You know, one, one night's sleep can change a lot of things.
00:20:29
Tristan Amundson
So hopefully we get him back and, um, and get canine back as well. Cause that would be obviously huge for this team to get a little bit more continuity.
00:20:40
M dub
Can I go into what I was thinking about for for how these teams were built? Because that was the the type of mind space that ah I think i think this this got you going.
00:20:47
Tristan Amundson
Yeah.
00:20:51
M dub
I don't know if you agree with this, but personally, it's still it still feels to me, and maybe I'm just way out of date with this, but it feels like, oh John Schneider's a Packers guy who has come over to the Seahawks for a little bit.
00:21:05
M dub
But if you look at the numbers, he has been with the Seahawks for a lot longer than he was ever with the Packers. So as a young man in his mid to early 20s, Schneider was a scout for the Packers from 93 to 96.
00:21:18
M dub
And then he returned and was in their front office from 02 to 09. So that's like eight years. He's been with the Seahawks now for, I think this is year 15. So, Snyder is really a Seahawks and not a Packer, but
00:21:26
Tristan Amundson
Wow.
00:21:31
M dub
you know Do you think that still that, oh, he's a packer who's ah come over here, or am I just way, am I 10 years out of date there with that one?
00:21:39
Tristan Amundson
i am you know I think that whenever you get your first opportunity in an industry, that that will always mark you as indicative of who you are. and And you're always, even in your own mind, going to go back to, this is where I learned fundamental things about my job. Right. And that's, he learned the fundamentals as a packer. So yeah, I do think he's always going to have that moniker of, um, of that packer lineage, which is great.
00:22:07
Tristan Amundson
Um, I, if you, I did not know, I would have guessed over 12 years. I didn't know he's been here for 15. That's, that's pretty incredible, especially in this league to have that kind of, um, job stability. I'm not going to say security because I think he's had to fight for it every year, but, um, that kind of stability is, is pretty cool.
00:22:29
M dub
I looked up John Schneider's resume with the Packers because I was interested about Brian Goudekunst, the general manager for the Packers, who I think has made a really delightful environment for it. This was the world's only... Here's what I took away from the game. It seemed like but with these Packers players, it was and There was a lot of guys that wasn't too confident on their names. It wasn't a lot of names I heard before. I like to think I follow this stuff pretty closely. But it also seemed like they had like 30 to 35 above average guys. It was like, there's no weakness anywhere you look. So the world's only Packers podcast, you know, we, it would be such a long list of like guys we're going. they like oh
00:23:11
M dub
This guy's playing well. This guy's playing well. It keeps on going on. So, so Brian Gudakunz has been with the Packers continuously since 1999, which is really crazy. He started as a scout there and so worked under John Schneider for several years as a scout when Schneider was in the front office and Gudakunz got the general manager job in 2018. Now, usually when we talk about the draft in the NFL world, it's kind of one year and done. You know, we monitor,
00:23:41
M dub
ah how are the rookie quarterbacks doing the rookie quarterbacks doing but you know nobody ever does an article like here's how the third year quarterbacks are doing you know so i wanted to look at the draft not just in terms of one year but in terms of a four-year chunk because uh starting with the 2021 draft not just randomly but because those are the guys who are still on their four-year rookie contracts if you were drafted in 2021 you were just wrapping up your four-year rookie contract at this point. So ah what is very clear about the Packer strategy is they simply want to stockpile their draft picks. They just want as many shots as possible. They had they had nine picks in 2021. You're given seven. They had nine in 2021. Then they go 11, 13, 11 the last few years.
00:24:34
M dub
And so, okay, John Schneider makes these moves at the deadline. We who traded for Ernest Jones this year. That was a great move. Leonard Williams last year, that was a great move. ah You know, third round pick here for Sam Howell. You kind of just, you know, to toss this cash around. It makes sense, because the first one he did was for Marshawn Lynch. So you just toss out a mid-round pick and get a franchise legend, ah you know, one of the most charismatic players of all time. But over the last four years,
00:25:03
M dub
just at those little $20 bills you're tossing. The Packers are grabbing them, the Seahawks are spending them, you know? ah Big tip from me or, you know, whatever. The Packers have had 14 more, they have 14 more attempts at getting these players on rookie contracts. They have 14 more players who are eligible for rookie contracts. So does Gudakun's match Snyder pick for pick? Who's better? A lot of evidence shows that it It pretty much bounces out at random over the course of like a long general manager's career. But man, could the Seahawks find some more contributors if they had 14 more draft picks? of fourteen words and that's a lot That's a huge chunk of your roster. And so, yeah, there have been a lot of mistakes the Packers have made in the draft. A lot of players you know low in the draft and high in the draft aren't on their team anymore.
00:25:56
M dub
And it's it's not just a case of being ah stockpiling picks low. That includes five more attempts at picks in the top 100. So i mean it' so you know you think, hey, that's probably three or four starters right there that are on rookie contracts. you know So um looking at those numbers, that's what really, more so than even watching the game itself, that's what made me change my mind about the Sam Howell thing. Like, ah, not everybody has to give up a third round draft pick.
00:26:26
M dub
ah to get a backup quarterback. I think we both value backup quarterback more than and most people, but I just thought it was really interesting. There's also that, and it's also the Packers are 32nd in wide receiver spending and the Seahawks are first, as we've talked about throughout the year. ah So it's just very interesting that ah these two men were you know getting things started, having the first big first big opportunities of their career with the same organization were coworkers for eight years. Um, and it it is very interesting how, how much they've diverted in their paths. Now the Packers have received a lot of criticism, especially when Rogers were there for never drafting a quote skill position offensive player in the first round. And their streak with doing that is still, uh, so long, but it is amazing how
00:27:23
M dub
quickly, you'll end up being a good football team. If it's like, we're holding onto this third round pick and we're taking a defensive lineman, you know, or we're picking an offensive lineman in the first round.
00:27:33
Tristan Amundson
Yeah.
00:27:35
M dub
And those, those moments of being patient and being boring add up really quick. And for as much as we like about the Seahawks team, it's hard not to feel jealous, just about the the incredible depth and youth that the Packers have built up.
00:27:54
Tristan Amundson
Absolutely. No, it's man. It's a, it's a really good point. You think about 14 more bites of the apple. What, you know, what does that mean? And even if you want to say, let's, let's assume nine of those bust out and you you're just gonna, you know, uh, you're, you're going to end up dropping those guys, five more impact players on your team, um, young controllable assets like that.
00:28:19
Tristan Amundson
Pretty incredible. So yeah, I mean, it's so funny. theres There's so many different ways to try to build a franchise. I guess I would assume that there's some constraints that might end up being a good thing for a team like Green Bay, where they probably don't have the same budget flexibility.
00:28:37
Tristan Amundson
money flexibility that the Seahawks have. And so they probably have to do it in kind of a more fundamental small market way versus um the Seahawks where the story's always been that, you know, with Paul Allen's legacy that, hey, you know,
00:28:52
Tristan Amundson
ah cost is not the problem. like we We'll overspend, we'll spend wherever we need to. Obviously, sour salary cap league. So there is the constraint that
Individual Brilliance Amidst Struggles
00:29:04
Tristan Amundson
everybody has. But um yeah, I would imagine that that Green Bay has to do it fundamentally correct, right? And so they're goingnna they're going pick that extra defensive tackle, going to give that extra offensive guard.
00:29:17
Tristan Amundson
And you know that's where they won this game. right They won this game with superior O-line play. So ultimately, um I think the thesis you know runs true.
00:29:29
M dub
Yeah what's what's it what's also interesting about the the draft picks you know you get seven a year the Seahawks have are on a run of in 2022 they had nine 2023 they had 10 and last year they had eight. um So, but still that the third and fourth rounders are already out the door.
00:29:46
M dub
for next year, or it might be fourth and fifth, I'm sorry. It's it's it's two mid-round picks at least are are out the door for next year. There will be more compensatory picks coming in because the team did lose a lot of big free agents, compensatory picks for Damian Lewis, ah Jordan Brooks, and and some others. so Uh, anyway, I just couldn't believe the difference in philosophy when looking at it. And, um, I do, I do think it'd be very good to go the Packers way. It's it's such a conundrum though. Cause it's like, did Ernest Jones, was he worth the fourth round pick? Yeah, he probably like saved the season, you know, but there's something about continuing to do that. It just slowly crumbles. I mean, when you think about the 14 potential players under rookie contract, I mean,
00:30:35
M dub
When you're a general manager for 10, 15 years, I do think you should be looking at a four-year timeframe of the draft instead of just one year at a time.
00:30:46
Tristan Amundson
Yeah, no, I mean, listen, there's impact guys out there that you certainly have to um have to pass on. But to your point, it becomes really difficult when you think about guys like Jones, um when you think about other players that that they brought in that were the right pick, right? That that did make the impact. Marshawn, it's a great example, man, as the ultimate example, I mean.
00:31:10
Tristan Amundson
do that every single time, obviously. um And you never know when you're going to get the Marshawn versus, or maybe you do when you're getting the Marshawn. Like it'd be interesting. That would be a great conversation to have with John Schneider. What did you know about Marshawn? What'd you like about him when when you guys brought him in? Like what was your expectation, I guess, of that draft or of that draft pick of that free agent? Sorry, of that trade. Like what what did you think you were going to get out of that?
00:31:37
Tristan Amundson
um that'd be a really fun thing to ask John Schneider. like I'm surprised more people haven't. like just that's it That's an hour conversation right there. I mean, that's a ah career defining trade.
00:31:49
M dub
Yeah, for a career defining for a lot of people. This has to be why ah casinos earn so much money because John Schneider walked up to that slot machine, pulled the lever for the first time with the Marshawn Lynch trade and this this jackpot started flowing out of it, you know, and
00:32:09
M dub
continued to keep on pulling the lever and it has had different results with with some, I mean, Leo Williams and Ernest Jones. I mean, but those are incredible players, you know, ah but, ah you know, there's also, and then there's also Percy Harvard and Jamal Adams as well, you know.
00:32:18
Tristan Amundson
Yeah.
00:32:23
Tristan Amundson
Not without cost. Yeah. Every, every choice you make has a cost. Yeah. Yeah. Those, those ones staying a little bit more than, than the Marshawn Lynch ones. Um,
00:32:35
Tristan Amundson
That's yeah, it's a really interesting. It's an interesting look at it. Um, should we quickly break down this, this Charbonnet run? I know you look at a few times. I did. I don't think we have to spend a lot of time on it this week, but it it is maybe the one bright point of the game.
00:32:51
M dub
it absolutely was the bright point of the game and also bright point on bright point the Seahawks had a really short field scoring their one touchdown of the game because they forced another fumble which they are doing all the time it doesn't feel like it because they're recovering so few of them but they're they're forcing them all the time and the recovery is believed to be, you know, in analytic circles, like total, one of the most random things to happen in a football game. So, see how I get a short field by forcing a fumble, recovering it, and then yeah, Sharpenade takes it home.
00:33:24
Tristan Amundson
Charbonnet takes it home. um We're watching this a few times together. um Four wide receiver set. Charbonnet is um next to Gino on his left hand side. The the players that stand out on this.
00:33:39
Tristan Amundson
Tyler Lockett had the best block of his life. No, that's not true. DK Metcalf just block. No, never mind. They both did their jobs and that they ran
Mike Holmgren's Legacy
00:33:48
Tristan Amundson
and their quarterback just stuck with them and didn't have any way to make a play on this at all. um Another fun run by Charbonnet.
00:33:58
Tristan Amundson
Another great polling opportunity, right? So we saw, in this case, the center and the guard. So Sundell and Lemaya, both polling to the right. um Great downfield block by Sundell. I think that was the big takeaway of both of us, that he was down there unbelievable effort, stuck with his guy, no holding, stayed in front of the block the entire time. The other one that you brought up that I didn't notice at first, JSN and Noah Fant both had really key blocks that that kind of sprung this one open a little bit.
00:34:31
M dub
Absolutely. That's what is so interesting about the offensive line is they created a very similar highlight last week, a 51 yard run to the end zone. This was about 20 yards that could have gone a lot farther. And it looks really dominant in the middle of this game where you're giving out 14 pressures. And yeah, I think that.
00:34:50
M dub
it really take, I think Laumaya and Sundell both are really skilled out in space. ah They feel very quick for offensive linemen and really got down there. Sundell is almost in the end zone by the time Charbonnet gets there.
00:35:04
M dub
He's about at the five, but that's that's pretty far down there you know for an offensive lineman.
00:35:08
Tristan Amundson
he's moving
00:35:09
M dub
That's 15 yards of blocking just on a on a standard running play.
00:35:09
Tristan Amundson
yeah
00:35:13
M dub
and Yeah, yeah. ah you see You see glimmers. I mean, when the coaches are not, ah you know, it's not just coach speak, you know, or just saying something to say something when they talk about ah positive signs in the running game and so forth. They really are there.
00:35:32
Tristan Amundson
There's, there's plenty of moments in all these games. Um, and unfortunately this is one that that we lost and listen, you know, we start with it with the joke about the wake up call. I think that that is the hope though, that this is, it is a splash of cold water to the face. It does jar the team. Um, and and there are some adjustments hopefully that can be made.
00:35:55
Tristan Amundson
One hope, I guess, would be with Green Bay and Minnesota having a very similar scheme and, you know, both really, really high level skill players. Maybe there's some learnings for coach when it comes to the game script in the beginning of the game so that, you know, listen, it was a disaster that you usually don't see their first four possessions they scored on. So, you know, touchdown, touchdown, field goal, field goal, I believe.
00:36:25
Tristan Amundson
That's pretty rare. We don't see that very often. um So hopefully this ah this game coming up against Minnesota will be a little bit more muddy and a little bit more of a slugfest versus um you know giving giving a team like Green Bay the opportunity to get out in front like they did. um It became really hard for the Seahawks to come back. So anyway, that was a glimmer of hope brought to you by Christmas.
00:36:54
Tristan Amundson
Christmas is coming. Buy your loved ones some gifts and have some eggnog.
00:36:59
M dub
We really appreciate Christmas for reaching out as the sponsor there. So Tristan, this was a game between the Seahawks and the Packers at Loom & Field in Seattle. These are two teams that are constantly, they're not constantly winning Super Bowls, but they're constantly in the playoffs. We can agree on that. These are teams that make really smart decisions and for as much hand-wringing as their as we have done today on this episode about the state of the Seahawks, we're confidently the 15th best team in the league at the very worst, the 15th best team of the league. So that means there's 16 or 17 teams who would love to be in our position right now. I didn't realize though that one man, the same man really did create both of these winning cultures. And I didn't realize the extent to which he created them
00:37:52
M dub
For both teams the before and after is really crazy That man I'm talking about is a man who I think is responsible for you. and would It would be safe to say this The press conference is conducted by Mike Holmgren took you into the inner sanctum of Seahawks knowledge and following because He was a must-watch for you and that just that took you to the next level
00:38:16
Tristan Amundson
It's 100% true that Mike Holmron is the reason why I started watching every press conference, which I've done now. I don't know, probably halfway through Mike's career with the Seahawks and then on through Pete and obviously now ah to Mike.
00:38:32
Tristan Amundson
And, and I guess I should, I should be honest. There was a, there was a coach in there as well. Um, I'm totally blanking on his name.
00:38:39
M dub
Jim Mora.
00:38:40
Tristan Amundson
Jim Mora Jr. Thank you very much. Um, listen, all of his two, which, which were also kind of great. So yeah, no, but the love affair with press conferences started with Mike.
00:38:50
Tristan Amundson
There's, there's note about no doubt about that.
00:38:54
M dub
All right. so Holmgren created the Packers winning culture. What are you talking about? This is title town USA and all that. Well, that was really old stuff. So, uh, last year, listeners might remember the beloved segment, the Lombardi football hour.
00:39:10
M dub
Uh, I gave a little nugget about football in the fifties and sixties, as I read through the biography of Lombardi. which i Oh, when pride still mattered by David Meredith 500 page book, totally forgot the title.
00:39:20
Tristan Amundson
That's right.
00:39:22
M dub
Um, when pride still mattered by David Maraniss, really recommend it. So Lombardi goes from Packer's coach in 67, wins Super Bowl II, to their general manager in 68.
00:39:33
M dub
And I didn't fully realize this, but this starts the dark ages in Green Bay. So ah there' is there's 24 years between when Lombardi leaves and Holmgren arrives, which to me seems like a really short amount of time, because I can picture my Holmgren
00:39:49
Tristan Amundson
Yeah, it does. Yeah.
00:39:50
M dub
I could picture my Colgren in the Packers gear, and it's like, yeah, that was a little while ago, but okay, Colgren's hired in 1992, so that's 32 years ago.
00:40:02
M dub
So that gap feels really small to me.
00:40:04
Tristan Amundson
two Two years before Kurt Cobain committed suicide, just to kind of give us of some perspective and time.
00:40:11
M dub
Okay, here's what I was thinking about. Here's what I was thinking about was, You know, when home grids hired in 92, coaches look virtually identical now, you know, the kind of team sponsored gear, the khakis and so forth.
00:40:26
M dub
But you go back only 24 years earlier, you know, Lombardi's on the, with the fedora on the sidelines, you know? So anyway, this 24 year gap was really terrible for the Packers.
00:40:38
M dub
It was really terrible. They win one playoff game total, and they only have five winning years out of 24.
00:40:44
Tristan Amundson
Hmm.
00:40:46
M dub
So the Lombardi aura, the mystique, and everything was was gone. And if you think about it, it is hard to name a packer who played in the 80s. Despite there being so many Packers Hall of Famers, there really is this like total gap in the 70s and 80s.
00:41:01
Tristan Amundson
Yeah, agreed. Yeah.
00:41:04
M dub
So as I mentioned, 32 years since Holmgren arrived, uh, five losing years in that time. So he completely changed the Packers. Um, it was completely hopeless since Lombardi left. He totally changed that around. Seattle really hadn't had any much of anything happen. They played 24 years of football in their history before Holmgren arrived. In those 24 years, they had eight winning seasons and three total playoff wins.
00:41:31
M dub
And, uh, coincidentally, uh, so there's been 24 years since Holmgren arrived with this being year 25. This is the 49th year of Seahawks football. The 25 years, including Holmgren and after only six losing years for the Seahawks and 14 playoff wins. So the man, so I did know I, did I, the news kind of came through a few weeks ago and I didn't really pay attention to it that he has been nominated as a finalist for the hall of fame.
00:42:02
M dub
uh, next year. And looking at that, I really think he deserves it because there's something about what he did. You know, this coaching tree includes Andy Reed, you know, and John Gruden, uh, not that he won those Super Bowls. He did, you know, Andy Reed did that on his own, but there's something. Holgrid is not a name mentioned very much, but there's something about what he did that started just an attitude of winning that really that really stuck with both these teams.
00:42:28
Tristan Amundson
Yes.
00:42:31
M dub
So that really made me um very confident that he should be a Hall of Famer. I did also find out that he considered, ah he eventually pulled out, but he considered joining the New York Jets as their head coach in 2015.
00:42:44
Tristan Amundson
Oh, interesting.
00:42:45
M dub
Oh boy, would things be different now? i Things would be different if he he would have done it a third time. I totally believe it. but Well, if he maybe he pulled out because he felt he didn't have the energy anymore, but boy, what what a what a quiet turning moment in NFL history.
00:42:53
Tristan Amundson
I think
00:43:02
Tristan Amundson
I think a wise move by Mike to turn down the Jets job. I think that was that was probably very wise. um No, you know I can speak to, if i if I put myself back in the moment, do you happen to have it in front of you when Mike came to the Seahawks?
00:43:18
Tristan Amundson
Do do you have the the year um handy?
00:43:20
M dub
I think it was 99.
00:43:22
Tristan Amundson
Was it 99?
00:43:24
M dub
It was close to that.
00:43:25
Tristan Amundson
That sounds very close. I remember the vibe around the city when Mike was announced and and and just kind of the presence, to your point, the pedigree, the presence that he brought to the city and to the team.
00:43:38
Tristan Amundson
It instantly felt like we had a that like a validation of like, okay, this guy knows what he's doing. We're going to be on the right track. We're we're going to fix things. um You know, it is similar to the way that when the Chargers this year hired um ah Jim Harbaugh, you know, it's just kind of like, yeah, this is going to work. Like this, this is going to be fine. Like this guy, he knows what he's doing. Mike kind of had that same aura about him that, yeah, he's going to come in and and this is going to work. So um that's pretty cool. Yeah, that's that's pretty fun to think about. um It's a fun memory to think about, just his legacy.
00:44:17
Tristan Amundson
And yeah, he changed the direction of two different franchises. I never considered that from the Green Bay perspective until now.
00:44:27
M dub
What's really cool about Holmgren, one of my favorite things is he was, you know, Mike McDonald's 36, right? so And he's been in the NFL for a forever. Mike Holmgren, excuse me, was a high school coach and I'm pretty sure a high school coach with a losing record when he was like 30 or 31 years old.
00:44:44
Tristan Amundson
Yeah.
00:44:47
M dub
So he somehow puts together the most ascendant, like 10 year coaching boost, mega boost in history because He's hired as the Packers head coach in 1992 when he's 44 years old. So somehow in about 13 years, he went from having a losing record in high school to being an NFL head coach and has a winning record his first year. it's one of the It's a great mystery. I mean, it seems impossible that that could ever happen. Certainly not now, but even then, how like how does that happen?
00:45:21
Tristan Amundson
Yeah, yeah. how How does that happen? And it gives you the thought of how many guys and gals like just need a chance, right? just Just give me the opportunity to do something great. And there's there's probably a lot of greatness out there that our society looks over because they don't have a certain pedigree or this doesn't make sense you know from the outside.
00:45:42
Tristan Amundson
um So yeah, I'm grateful for the Packers that they ah they took that leap of faith and and went for it and gave him that job because um he certainly helped me enjoy football way more than I ever would have. and and You know, you you to your point, kind of brought me ah into the inside of of the way coaches think and and I think he was one of those coaches that really cared about his players and and wanted to do the right thing and do it the right way. um The funniest thing about Mike Holmgren that I can think of off the top of my head
00:46:17
Tristan Amundson
was when he would get angry on the sidelines. And anyone listening can think about those moments where Mike would lose his mind. And there's moments, he and he's talked about this, where he would get so angry, he just talked he just would go red. he would just Or I think he would say, like things would just kind of go black.
00:46:35
Tristan Amundson
And he couldn't do his job. he couldn't He couldn't wear the headset. And his assistants knew when when Mike would go to this place of complete darkness that they would have to take over the game and the play calling until he calmed down. And so he had like specific assistants. And they knew, oh, it's it's my job to to take over for Mike. And and he knew this about himself. like He just knew sometimes he gets so angry.
00:47:02
Tristan Amundson
that, that he just, he couldn't do it it. He could not function as a coach for, you know, a couple of minutes or whatever it was. Um, and then you look at him and you hear him talk and he seems like an absolute teddy bear too. So, um, you know, it takes a lot to make a human tick and and Mike's a good example of it.
00:47:22
M dub
Man, he actually coached longer for the Seahawks than the Packers. Same thing with John Schneider there, I wouldn't guess. You think of him, I still think of him as Packers first, almost.
00:47:32
Tristan Amundson
Yeah, yeah, that's, well, I mean, a lot of time in both spots. um It's a good walk down memory lane with Mike Holmgren though, I like that.
00:47:43
M dub
Good old Mike, still in Seattle. Still chose to stay in Seattle. I always love to see that.
00:47:48
Tristan Amundson
I do too, I really do too. Okay. Our, our, do we turn the page? Are we onto as bill bell chick would say, are we on to Minnesota?
00:47:59
Tristan Amundson
Any other concluding thoughts before we say we're on to Minnesota here?
00:48:04
M dub
We're on to Minnesota, the Vikings, the purple peep leaders.
00:48:05
Tristan Amundson
Okay. Okay. Or Minnesota's. They're coming to our town. They're, they're going to have to take, in fact, listen, the first wrinkle they played Monday night.
00:48:11
M dub
It's true. Yes.
00:48:16
Tristan Amundson
Um, so they are on a short week. No doubt. They're going to have to practice and play on a shorter week coming, coming into Seattle for, I believe it's a one Oh five game in Lumen field or at in, they will be playing in and at Lumen field.
00:48:33
Tristan Amundson
I think both are correct.
00:48:34
M dub
around Lumenfield.
00:48:35
Tristan Amundson
They won't be playing around. No, they'll have to play either in or at, but I don't think around or adjacent to.
00:48:41
M dub
Oh, got it.
00:48:43
Tristan Amundson
Yeah.
00:48:43
M dub
Okay.
00:48:45
Tristan Amundson
Yeah. So just listen, that's why we're here to really clear these things up for, for, for the listener. So it's, it's great that we're able to do that for everybody.
00:48:55
Tristan Amundson
I'm looking forward to this game, man. I think it's going to be indicative. It's going to be a tell of what this team is capable of. Can we play at this higher class level or not? Um, and if we can't, what things does
Seahawks vs Vikings: Playoff Implications
00:49:10
Tristan Amundson
that mean? We need to work on going into next year with all of those draft picks that you were talking about that, that John Schneider is just, just cashing, just a treasure chest of draft picks, hundreds of them, I think next year that he'll be able to deploy.
00:49:25
Tristan Amundson
um But yeah, yeah what what things will we learn about this team? I think it is going to be um maybe even more so than the last two games. This is going to be a very telling game for us.
00:49:39
M dub
It's a pretty big one. Uh, definitely have to have it. There's only three games left in this season, which is wild. Definitely had to have it in order to have a shot at the playoffs. Uh, the kind of expectations for the end of the year really change. Uh, if they lose this one, it is hard to feel optimistic about it, but I think thinking about it a little more, that's the first thought it's hard to be optimistic about this one. Second thought is.
00:50:03
M dub
You know, you see underdogs beat favorite teams all the time. And in order to do that, you really have to have a sense of belief in these days, uh, within the building as they prepare for it. So if it all comes together, which you can absolutely you can absolutely see it coming together, uh, credits everybody ahead of time for, uh, staying strong and believing.
00:50:24
Tristan Amundson
Let's see what happens next week. We won't be saying skull. We'll be saying go Hawks.
00:50:33
M dub
Go Hawks!