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A Hint of Klint
33 Plays9 months ago
Tristan and Miles talk about the arrival of Klint Kubiak, what it means to restructure a contract, and Wojtek the Polish bear.
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Transcript
Introduction and Offseason Developments
00:00:00
Tristan Amundson
Miles, episode 51 of the podcast brings us to some some good off-season fodder. We have a lot to talk about. um Everything from the hiring of a new offensive coordinator to you continuing to school us all with the salary cap to one of our favorite people landing a
Clint Kubiak's New Role with Seahawks
00:00:22
Tristan Amundson
new job. So we have lots to get into, but it seems appropriate to start with really maybe the hot news in Seattle, which is Clint Kubiak, our new offensive coordinator.
00:00:34
Tristan Amundson
um You know, Clint, is of Polish descent. The Kubiak name comes from comes from Poland. And I've been doing some research about Wojtek.
00:00:46
Tristan Amundson
And we were just chatting about him a little earlier. Wojtek, the Siberian brown bear, who um was adopted by the soldiers of the second Polish Corps during World War started as a young cub,
00:01:02
Tristan Amundson
They saved him from being a dancing bear, which I think is ironic because when I think of offensive linemen, I think of dancing bears. And when I think of Clint Kubiak, I think of a offensive run game, offensive line centric kind of coach.
00:01:18
Tristan Amundson
So, I mean, listen, the parallels are manifold between these two. Do you think that there's a possibility that Clint is going to bring, at the very least, the spirit of Wojtek into the Seattle Seahawks this year, Myles?
NFL Offseason Impact on Content
00:01:34
M dub
Tristan, what a pleasure to be with you. Episode 51, I can't believe it. Tristan, since we started this podcast, I feel like the NFL is in its offseason pretty much all the time.
00:01:45
M dub
I feel like these guys barely play football. I'm not sure... But that's how it feels on the inside. But the offseason sure does feel long when you're trying to keep up with the podcast. And I do appreciate that we are in the World War two research phase of the offseason.
00:01:59
M dub
ah Yeah, we can only hope that Wojtek, hopefully I got that correct, the spirit of Wojtek is alive and well with the Clint Kubiak offense.
Kubiak Family's Polish Connections
00:02:09
M dub
we We did do our research just before and confirmed that Gary Kubiak, the father of Clint Kubiak, The former NFL coach has actually been advising gridiron, not soccer, but a gridiron football team based in Poland. So this is a real heritage here.
00:02:26
Tristan Amundson
it's It's important. You know, when when we talk about doing research for a podcast, and listen, we're not here to throw stones on any other podcast that might be trying to do football research, but a lot of times what what you'll find if you go through the podcast, you know, ah our brothers and sisters out there, the the the different ah different outlets, they're going to they're goingnna keep it X's and O's. They're going to keep it very football-centric,
00:02:54
Tristan Amundson
might I say a bit
Podcast Research and Historical Insights
00:02:56
Tristan Amundson
myopic. And when you and I decide to do research, we, we really want to talk about the whole person. And for goodness sake, you can't talk about the whole person unless you know where they came from and and and the sort of struggles that their people went through.
00:03:12
Tristan Amundson
um and and what better place to start than, than world war two where the Polish people, um you know, perhaps had the greatest struggle of, of all the people of, of the earth. I mean, the, the Polish people,
00:03:24
Tristan Amundson
So citizenry, I believe the final number was 6 million people were killed by the Nazi regime, obviously many of those Polish Jews. So um ah appropriate as we as we speak on President's Day and we think about the the larger picture, right?
00:03:43
Tristan Amundson
But now we have to we have to bring it back down into into the Kubiak family specifically. All of these poles. But now we're we're just talking about Clint. um and And for goodness sake, Miles, I'm going to need your help land in this plane because, you know, if I'm trying to land it on this World War Two aircraft carrier, the winds, I've suddenly made my own gusts of wind.
00:04:02
M dub
you
00:04:06
Tristan Amundson
I can't land the plane without you, man.
00:04:08
M dub
All right, we are zoomed out to the entire 20th century. I'm going to zoom in in in in, in, in, and I'm going to get to the 2024 New Orleans Saints. I know there were a lot other previous chapters in the Clint Kubiak coaching journey.
00:04:16
Tristan Amundson
Wow.
00:04:22
M dub
This is actually his fifth team in the last five years. He was an offensive play caller for one year earlier with the Minnesota Vikings. Then last year, new job, OC with the New Orleans Saints.
00:04:34
M dub
I guess the Saints just let all their coaches go, by the way. I thought you weren't allowed to interview for like a lateral move like this, offensive coordinator offensive coordinator, but it seems like the Saints were just like, yeah, have have a field day, everybody.
00:04:47
M dub
um We are both agree, i think, that it is hard to get super excited about this hiring, but it does not have to do much with Clint Kubiak himself. I think it has a lot to do with the previous week inside the sea or the previous month or so inside the Seahawks building and how we got from Ryan Grubb to Clint Kubiak, what was said, questions dodged in press conferences and so forth.
00:05:18
M dub
But I do think if you look at Clint Kubiak's year last year with the Saints, you can get encouraged by the stats, but I think what you do have to do is you do have to split up the Derek Carr numbers versus the numbers with all other
Clint Kubiak's Coaching Journey and Expectations
00:05:33
M dub
quarterbacks.
00:05:33
M dub
So with Derek Carr, the team was 5-5, which is you know pretty close to getting to a playoff type of spot. Without Derek Carr, and they were starting spencerer Spencer Rattler and Jake Hayner. so So some very late round draft picks, no veteran quarterbacks in the building.
00:05:52
M dub
With those two quarterbacks, they went 0-7. And the point differentials on the year. With Derek Carr, they were plus 63. um Our beloved Seahawks last year, even though they went 10-7, they were plus 7 on the year.
00:06:05
Tristan Amundson
Well, okay.
00:06:05
M dub
So the Saints were really really good.
00:06:06
Tristan Amundson
Yeah.
00:06:07
M dub
and they so they were And then they were minus 123 in the seven games with the other quarterbacks. Out of their five losses with Derek Carr, they only lost one game by more than one possession.
00:06:17
M dub
That was to the Kansas City Chiefs. No shame in that. And in the 10 starts with Derek Carr, he was only sacked eight times, which was the very best sack percentage in the league. And of everything I said, that's almost the most encouraging thing to hear. Like, wow, they really kept this guy upright.
00:06:38
M dub
ah Yeah, and he went 15 touchdowns and five interceptions in that slightly more than half of a year. It's pretty good. what do you What do you think about this? Are these numbers getting to you juiced up as I say these these delicious numbers from the first half of the Saints here?
00:06:53
Tristan Amundson
Yeah, you know what? It's funny. So just like the listener, I i haven't researched this. um i wanted to kind of hear these numbers fresh from you. And ah yeah it's interesting. It's better than I thought it was going to be, frankly, that those are, those are all more encouraging numbers than I thought.
00:07:10
Tristan Amundson
um And so it does get me juiced up, but I think you're totally right, man. I think the reason why there's two reasons why it's hard to get super excited about Clint and it has nothing to do with Clint, which is a real bummer. It's, it's, it's not his fault.
00:07:26
Tristan Amundson
Number one is um, is the way that Ryan Grubb, you know, how that kind of time ended and and maybe just the misstep of of going for Ryan Grubb in the first place or or whatever. However, that didn't mesh or or whatever things that Mike needed to learn about his coaching philosophy and the kind of coaches he needed to put around him.
00:07:48
Tristan Amundson
I guess we we just can... we we can um equate that to growing pains. You know, we can, we talked a lot last year about how it was Mike's first year ever coaching and that there was going to be mistakes.
00:08:03
M dub
Thank you.
00:08:03
Tristan Amundson
we We knew going into it, this is the first time this guy has ever had this job. The first time I've ever had any job, I make mistakes. It's just the way life works.
00:08:14
Tristan Amundson
You grow from them, you learn from them and you move on. And so if it's fair to say that that as when it came to hiring an offensive coordinator probably the thing he knew the least about and meshing with somebody on philosophy he learned a lot about this idea that you really have to mesh like i'm sure he would have told you beforehand yeah we have to be on the same page of what we want to accomplish but perhaps in the course of a season you really realize man we have to we have to really mesh so
00:08:46
Tristan Amundson
You know, it's not really any anyone's fault, I guess, but it was just a, I don't know, a tough transition away from Grubb. um And a guy, frankly, I mean, Gino's numbers were pretty good last year. So I think that's interesting.
00:08:59
Tristan Amundson
um For me, now, this is what I i guess want to ask you where I fall prey more than anything is the idea of somebody new, the idea of somebody that i've never heard of before, the shiny new toy that no one has has gotten their hands on yet.
00:09:17
Tristan Amundson
um Now, just to really underline how silly the that point is, right? The two guys that I was interested in, i don't even remember their names anymore, which kind of speaks to how quickly the news cycle goes.
00:09:31
M dub
Hank Fraley? I thought, i I was thinking about Hank Fraley, the Detroit Lions offensive line coach.
00:09:32
Tristan Amundson
Hank Fraley, there it is.
00:09:37
M dub
He ends up staying with the Lions. that That was a candidate that was interesting to me, but he had no play calling experience, which was ah seemed to be the problem we were running into with Grubb. So anyway, yeah, that was a name that I i was tuned into.
00:09:49
Tristan Amundson
Exactly. Yeah. so
00:09:51
Tristan Amundson
so So Hank is one of them. So that that was one. And then the other dude was the guy. He was the assistant for the Vikings, the wunderkind. um He has a really weird last name.
00:10:02
Tristan Amundson
I can't think of his last name. Can you...
00:10:04
M dub
it Tanner Angstrom?
00:10:05
Tristan Amundson
Yeah, I think so. What I had heard from him was that the way he enjoyed spending his summers was hiking in the fjords of Norway. And I thought to myself, that's my kind of guy.
00:10:16
Tristan Amundson
This makes a lot of sense to me. But here's the deal. And I guess my point being this.
New Coaching Talents and Opportunities
00:10:21
Tristan Amundson
we fans are fickle creatures and, um and certainly we're tree topping. We don't, we're not in the meeting rooms. We're not in the interviews.
00:10:31
Tristan Amundson
And it's really easy as a fan to look at someone who's never done it before. Look at kind of the new, wave of coaches and say, I want one of those, right? Because we've seen it hit a few times.
00:10:44
Tristan Amundson
we've We've gone to the roulette table and we've hit snake eyes a couple of times as a league, right? We've gotten Sean McVay, bam. Oh my gosh. Well, we want one of those, right? Hey, we want one of these hot coaches that comes in and just, we want the next Kyle Shanahan. We want whoever it happens to be that's going to really shake things up.
00:11:03
Tristan Amundson
um And Clint's name, just because it's been around a little bit, And I think also because you hear Kubiak and you think, oh, Gary Kubiak. You just kind of think about family and you think about, um you know, I don't know, nepotism, I guess, a little bit. And I don't know, there's there's just a lot of baggage that comes along with it. He might be the absolute best choice. So I don't know. Let let me shut up.
00:11:29
Tristan Amundson
do you Do you find yourself looking at some of the unknowns of those kinds of coaches and you're kind of drawn to to the newness, the unknown?
00:11:38
M dub
I definitely know what you're talking about. I think what's unique about this situation is, so this time last year, we were talking about an unknown, effectively.
00:11:48
Tristan Amundson
Yes, yes.
00:11:48
M dub
We were talking about Ryan Grubb, who was going to make the leap from college to the professional game for the very first time. um We do want to update the listener. Ryan Grubb has returned to his old job of ah offensive coordinator for the Alabama Crimson Tide, a job he had for like a week last year.
00:12:05
Tristan Amundson
Roll Tide.
00:12:06
M dub
There was a ah very dramatic way of getting him out of Alabama and into before he had done a game and into the Seahawks facility.
00:12:10
Tristan Amundson
Yeah.
00:12:14
M dub
He's back in Alabama.
00:12:17
Tristan Amundson
Is Alabama's mascot an elephant?
00:12:18
M dub
the the
00:12:20
Tristan Amundson
Am i correct in saying that?
00:12:22
M dub
It is an elephant. What's up? Yeah.
00:12:24
Tristan Amundson
The only reason I bring it up is it's just funny, the idea that their mascot is an elephant. And that's the same. I mean, this is this is terrible radio, folks. That's the same as Cal State Fullerton's mascot, the Titans. And i just it just occurred to me, you know, that's a pretty low-key mascot. You know, i the the idea that the Fullerton, the Cal cal State Fullerton Titans, know,
00:12:47
Tristan Amundson
share a mascot with Alabama, a powerhouse in baseball, Fullerton, and a powerhouse in football.
00:12:53
M dub
Well, Fulich in football is undefeated for about 30 years now. You can look that up.
00:12:57
Tristan Amundson
That's true too. Yeah, look that up. um Yeah, so anyway, I'm sorry. It just occurred to me that both of those great institutions both have the mascot of an elephant, which I think is very funny.
00:13:06
M dub
if yeah ah That is a weird one. So ah what what folks from the Seahawks have been very careful not to tell us in the general public is what went wrong but with Ryan Grubb in the building.
00:13:21
Tristan Amundson
Yep. Yep. Yep.
00:13:22
M dub
And I suppose an NFL team never comes out and says that. But, you know, you you had a quarterback who was top five in passing yardage. You had this breakout wide receiver who was top something in receiver. You know, yeah you had 10 wins.
00:13:38
Tristan Amundson
yeah
00:13:38
M dub
You know, you had 10 wins with first-time head coach, first-time coordinator. Not that thought we needed a specific reason, but it was really... it felt... it So it... Without that reason...
00:13:51
M dub
We're kind of left or or, you know, it'd be so different if Grubb got promoted to somewhere else. You know, if he if he went out, you know, that ah on a promotion but without the reason of why he left, you're you're kind of left wondering, OK, what's going to be different now?
00:14:07
M dub
What's different now? What what went what needed to change and and what's different now? And I guess we will have to wait till September actually see um if those issues got resolved or what the team was really thinking about internally.
00:14:23
M dub
But it it is it is weird. And and because Grubb's inexperience was was a big factor, I think, it didn't... almost wanted somebody with like 20 years of play-calling experience. Not that I had a name in mind, but it it seemed like that was almost the way to go And Kubiak with two years of play calling experience in the NFL, they went very well, but it it actually almost seemed like that was too little you know in a way.
00:14:50
M dub
um Although that it might not necessarily be that way.
00:14:52
Tristan Amundson
Yeah.
00:14:54
Tristan Amundson
Inauspicious is a word that comes to mind when I think of Ryan Grubb's time with us. and And I think because of that, I think it it really plays into what you're saying. It makes you really want to grab on to very solid pay.
00:15:10
Tristan Amundson
Like, I mean, for instance, I heard the name Chip Kelly being floated around. And I feel like that would have been that would have felt even more solid. Like, hey, OK, this guy's been around for a long time.
00:15:22
Tristan Amundson
He knows what he's doing. Maybe someone like that. and Now, I will say if we're looking for the solid footing that Clint will provide,
00:15:33
Tristan Amundson
It's, and I hate to do this to him, but it it is the tree, right? It is the coaching tree that he's been around because the Kubiak name and the Shanahan name are intrinsically intertwined together forever. And they've been around that same, i think they come from the same acorn, right? I mean, the the the Shanahan Kubiak tree at the very least,
00:15:56
Tristan Amundson
grow very closely to each other and have very similar offensive um ah philosophies. And I think that's, if you were to point to one thing and say, okay, what's the upside of this?
00:16:10
Tristan Amundson
You would point to the 49ers with Kyle Shanahan and you would say, Basically, Kyle and Clint, in some ways, from a football perspective, grew up together and they they share a similar philosophy. And indeed, were, am I right in saying they were on the same staff? Clint was on the staff with Kyle in San Francisco, I'm guessing right now, but like four or five years ago, right?
00:16:34
M dub
I think it was more recently than that. And then I do think they literally did grow up together um in these Denver Bronco locker rooms in the nineties with Mike Shanahan, the head coach and Gary Kubiak, the backup quarterback to John Elway.
00:16:46
M dub
I do think they literally grew up.
00:16:47
Tristan Amundson
Yeah.
00:16:50
M dub
Yeah, that's a good point.
00:16:50
Tristan Amundson
Yeah, we're around together.
00:16:52
Tristan Amundson
Yeah. So.
00:16:52
M dub
Here's,
00:16:54
Tristan Amundson
but Oh, no, I was just gonna say maybe that makes us feel a little better. Like that's, you know, that that's kind of something to to grab on to. I'm not sure.
00:17:02
M dub
is something to grab onto. Here's something that i'm curious if it does change. um And i think this is I think this is a new thing that you need to be aware of with an offensive coordinator is fourth down success and execution.
Importance of Fourth Down Execution
00:17:18
Tristan Amundson
Hmm.
00:17:18
M dub
we were kind of it I think we've moved into this era. you know For a long time, the debate was, do you go for it on fourth down? And we're kind of past that question now. which is more of an analytics question. And I do think the question now is a lot less analytically based and a lot more about fundamentals, execution, getting a smart play out there, executing it crisply, managing the play clock, managing the situation, you know, stuff like that. Just fourth down mastery.
00:17:46
M dub
ah had this written down before journalist asked this at the Clint Kubiak press conference. I was really disappointed to hear this question because I had a real nugget here and this guy found it as well.
00:17:58
M dub
The top four teams in the NFL in fourth down conversion percentage on the year were the four conference finalists, the commanders, the Eagles, the Bills, and the Chiefs.
00:18:10
M dub
So those were the best four teams at
00:18:10
Tristan Amundson
Hmm. Hmm.
00:18:12
M dub
percentage of ah converting fourth downs. Seahawks were below average in like every fourth down metric. They were exactly 20. They were 22nd in their accuracy or their conversion rate.
00:18:25
M dub
52.7% was 22nd. They were 22nd in their number of total attempts on the season, which is 19. And they were 22nd on their conversions, which was 10. Um, um So I'm really curious to see what those numbers look like. And the Saints numbers for 2024 are messed up because of the the quarterback split.
00:18:44
M dub
um But I am curious, you know, January of next year, if we can look back and see ah the Seahawks are top 10 in this. i I mean, those plays are so important.
00:18:57
M dub
there's That's the thing about those plays.
00:18:57
Tristan Amundson
Yeah, that's very interesting.
00:18:58
M dub
and I mean, and that's at least one per game. Each one of those plays is just absolutely so important. actually went back and looked out I looked at at the tape of all of them on um the NFL film room, and only three of the Seahawks' 19 attempts were like endgame desperation, like we got nothing else to do but just huck this on on fourth down.
00:19:18
M dub
And there was one fake punt as well. So that's really, that's four plays out of the 19. So 15 of them were really high leverage plays. That was was's a big fork in the road moment in the game.
00:19:30
M dub
And the team was just below average in a lot of ways. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I saw four. I wrote down that four those plays felt like faulty design. it felt like It felt like they missed four conversions because the tight end didn't chip like a free runner to the quarterback.
00:19:48
M dub
And the play that got totally blown up.
00:19:48
Tristan Amundson
And truth name.
00:19:50
M dub
Four out 19, that's kind of a lot of times to like not learn the same lesson, you know?
00:19:52
Tristan Amundson
That's a lot.
00:19:56
M dub
Yeah. Anyway, that's that's what I'll be looking for. That's, ah I think, a new part of the package. It's not just about your scheme. it We've learned the hard way with the Seahawks. It's about calling a consistent game.
00:20:08
M dub
And I think fourth down, just the general execution, the the appropriateness of the play for the moment. Is it a short one? Is it a long one? Is it fourth at four? you know
00:20:19
Tristan Amundson
Yeah, well, and it's funny.
00:20:20
M dub
ah It's something that that really matters now.
Analytics in Modern Coaching
00:20:23
Tristan Amundson
And the attempt side of that, I think is really interesting because ah something i feel very strongly about and being able to say about Mike McDonald is that um all the interviews I've i've heard from him or or many, I should say, of the interviews I've heard from him, he talks a lot about following the numbers, right? And following the, and what what are the numbers telling us to do? We're going to do that. We're we're going to follow the analytics.
00:20:47
Tristan Amundson
And that speaks to kind of a newer version, a young, more, a more progressive version of a head coach, right? That's going to go for it on fourth down more often.
00:20:58
Tristan Amundson
The old school head coach, no, we're we're punting that. We're not going too much risk. We're not going to go for it on fourth down. The new school head coach saying, hey, listen, we have a 65.3% chance of converting this or, you know, whatever the numbers are.
00:21:13
Tristan Amundson
it behooves us to go for this. And, you know, most of the time it's going to work out and it's long run going to help us as a football team. So you would think that with that logic, that that's, that's an edge that Mike is going to look to gain for the Seahawks going into the future um as a younger, more progressive analytics driven type of head coach.
00:21:36
Tristan Amundson
Um, Although, you know, it's funny. I say that. I guess some of it's just personnel too, right? Because you don't think of Dan Quinn as that. I don't think of Dan Quinn as a young, progressive analytics driven head coach. Maybe he is analytics driven. I don't know.
00:21:52
Tristan Amundson
But, you know, Dan Quinn with the commanders, um, you know, that they were great at fourth down, but that also could just be that they had, you know, maybe the most dynamic young quarterback in the league that can really do some crazy things.
00:22:05
Tristan Amundson
Um, I think an interesting example of going forward on fourth down so consistently is the Lions last year. Because you think of that, like defensive head coach, very, almost feels like an old school head coach, not an athletic quarterback really at all. And yet they were one of the teams that went for it the most last year.
00:22:27
Tristan Amundson
and And they really um kind of hung their hat on that as a calling card. So it is interesting, man. Yeah. And it certainly, I mean, if you just look at those four teams, clearly that's, you want to be one of those four teams. What are they doing really well? So that's a, I would not have thought to look at fourth down, but that's what I'm going to be looking at that now. That's really interesting going into the next year.
00:22:49
M dub
and the reason To me, it does feel like an offensive coordinator's responsibility because, because like I said, we we are kind of moving past an era where it's like, ah do we go for it or not? It's kind of like, yes, you're going for it. And then to me, it really feels like the offensive coordinator's responsibility that just the operation is smooth because the Seahawks did struggle with that a couple of times.
00:23:09
Tristan Amundson
Yeah. Yeah.
00:23:09
M dub
last year on fourth down, like the entire thing, starting from when the ball is down on third down, you know, when the tackle is made those next 40, 45 seconds, like everything has to go really smoothly from getting the play call in, you know, personnel and, you know, make sure you're not doing something like having a shotgun snap on a short fourth and one, you know, like those moments do ah offenses still do trip themselves up on these plays.
00:23:37
M dub
And and so you,
00:23:38
Tristan Amundson
yeah
00:23:39
M dub
It's not enough to just decide to go for it. You really have to master the situation and have everybody ready to go. And and on a finding the high percentage play for your team in the matchup that you're in.
00:23:52
Tristan Amundson
your version of the the brotherly shove, so to speak, right? Like that's, if you think about all the things that you just named, is why that play works so well. You have the correct personnel for it, right? You have, um especially last year with Jason Kelsey at at center, because he was such a strong, big center, but you know, still you have a strong center.
00:24:14
Tristan Amundson
Your quarterback is well known. Like Jalen Hurts, it's known he squats like a zillion pounds. So he has the power source to, um you know, to drive. You have an offensive philosophy that that can do that. We can do this all together.
00:24:28
Tristan Amundson
And then maybe the most important thing you just said, you don't want a lot of moving parts on your fourth down play. You want to find a play that you can do with as few moving parts as possible. And so, okay, let's not shotgun it. Let's not pass it. You know, let's not have to catch it.
00:24:43
Tristan Amundson
Let's, let's do that. Let's not even have to hand it off, right? Let's just snap the ball and go forward. Now that obviously works for them. That won't necessarily work for us, but to your point, um, yeah,
00:24:55
Tristan Amundson
the the different things that an offensive coordinator has to do to find the perfect, um you know, yeah, maybe repeatable fourth down play that it actually kind of makes me want to look at lines film now to see their fourth down plays and see what they're, if they had one or two, that was kind of like, we go, that's kind of what we do. You know, we, we go back to mama with this play over and over again.
00:25:17
M dub
Yeah, well, that's for fourth and one or maybe fourth and one and a half, but there's going to be fourth and threes and fourth and fours where you you can't do that.
00:25:22
Tristan Amundson
Yep.
00:25:23
M dub
You know, and and the brotherly shot is not the only way. I was thinking of Tom Brady, you know, not not the Jalen Hurts squatting type. And he managed to pick up those yards with um jumping on the the correct side of the center, you know, um ah getting into that A gap between the center and the guard and picking up that crucial yard.
00:25:33
Tristan Amundson
He was really good at it. Yeah.
00:25:42
Tristan Amundson
Shockingly good at it, actually. i had kind of forgot about that. Tom was really good at that. That was a ah really good part of his game. That's interesting. it'll be It'll be fun to see um how Clint utilizes the different weapons.
00:25:54
Tristan Amundson
And frankly, now I know it's probably a conversation for another day, but like what weapons he has to utilize also is still kind of on the table for this Seahawks team.
00:26:04
M dub
Yes, that's a question that, ah yeah I mean, I don't think the team itself can really know at this point. that that's That's going to be a lot more clear in like six to eight weeks. Tristan, can I take us to school?
Understanding NFL Salary Cap
00:26:18
M dub
This is a thrilling school because in this school, ah which was instituted on the last podcast episode, it's called Salary Cap School.
00:26:18
Tristan Amundson
Yes.
00:26:25
M dub
This is unlike most schools because the teacher is exactly one lesson ahead of all the students. um The teacher does not has not completed the doctorate and then come back to teach everybody.
00:26:38
M dub
The teacher is running and putting the rails down on the tracks as the train is coming down. This is salary cap school where um I'm finally learning the salary cap and um I'm reading a book about it that I completely forget the title of.
00:26:53
M dub
I apologize to the author right now.
00:26:55
Tristan Amundson
but Hey, this is live radio, folks. This is what happens.
00:26:58
M dub
But ah i'll bring that I'll bring that book back. It's a very good book by Mr. Bruce Irons. um Really recommend it. All right, so last time, I talked about how there's two different types of money, basically, in an NFL contract, for the most part.
00:27:14
M dub
We have the base salary, which is the game check given to each player, literally week by week through the regular season. And then we have the signing bonus, which is given to the player when the contract is signed, usually in March.
00:27:29
M dub
And every dollar paid to a player must count against the salary cap eventually. And the way this gets all wonky is because the signing bonus, even though it's all literally handed to a player at the start of, say, even a three or four year contract, that The cap hit for the signing bonus can be equally distributed among the life of the contract.
00:27:56
M dub
So this is so then the whole this is why, this that's just the whole mechanism of how things get a little bit out of sync. The signing bonus has been given to the player. The money must eventually count against the cap, but not necessarily in that year because the hit of the signing bonus is distributed over time. How do we do?
00:28:15
M dub
Recap on lesson one. it It felt like an enlightening lesson last time.
00:28:17
Tristan Amundson
that
00:28:20
Tristan Amundson
No, and I remember um specifically what I told you, the the epiphany moment for me, you hear signing bonus and you instantly think, well, okay, like if I'm paying you $100, I just paid you $100. So that's going to count against the cap, right? And and it's it's a bit counterintuitive. So it's it's a really helpful mechanism to realize that Signing bonus doesn't mean, hey, we've paid for it. The credit card's paid off. We're good to go.
00:28:47
Tristan Amundson
Signing bonus almost means the opposite, which is, hey, we're going to use dad's credit card. And you know now we're going to extrapolate this money potentially over you know many years. So yeah, no, absolutely. That was my big epiphany last time was that the signing bonus equals potentially many years down the line.
00:29:06
M dub
Yes, and it's kind of funny because NFL teams literally must have it kind of squared away in their accounting office because it's it's not like a credit card in that the money literally does get to the player at that time.
00:29:17
Tristan Amundson
It does go. Yeah.
00:29:19
M dub
there's Then there's this separate budget. So a team's salary cap number can be very different from the amount of money they're actually paying two players on the roster in that year. But what's more important, ah like from the fans' perspective, is that salary cap number because it affects what you can do competitively So today, restructuring.
00:29:41
M dub
Restructuring, you hear this all the time, what is restructuring? So almost every restructure is moving money from that base salary, that weekly game check, into a signing bonus. that's That can happen in the middle of a contract, and that's pretty much what happens every time that you hear there it has been a restructuring.
00:30:05
M dub
So the player does that because the player agrees to this because they literally get the money sooner. You know, they were scheduled to get this money on the on these game checks, you know, like next year.
00:30:18
M dub
And we'll use Leonard Williams as an example because since the last time we talked, the Seahawks did restructure Leonard Williams' contract.
00:30:20
Tristan Amundson
Yep. yep
00:30:24
M dub
So Leonard Williams... ah There was $18.75 million dollars that he was going to get paid across the game checks of the 2025 season.
00:30:37
M dub
And the Seahawks came to him and his representation and said, would you like this literally right now? And he said, yes. Which is not the entirety of his base salary for 2025, but it is a substantial chunk of it.
00:30:52
M dub
And so um that's why the player agrees to do this. The team does this because ah this kind of resets the clock. it's like It's like a new signing bonus that then can be distributed across multiple years.
00:31:10
M dub
So it lowers the amount of the cap hit. that year because now that the base salary money has been moved into signing bonus money and we can distribute that signing bonus money across several different years.
00:31:26
M dub
How are we doing? Is
Seahawks' Contract Restructures
00:31:27
M dub
that
00:31:28
Tristan Amundson
umm I'm following you perfectly. And it it I'm just realizing, or i'm i I Googled it as we were chatting, that they, I had forgotten about this, they restructured DeKalen's contract last year. So DK got a restructuring. and
00:31:44
M dub
Oh, yeah, well, yeah, we'll get to the Seahawks in just a little bit.
00:31:44
Tristan Amundson
yeah. ah
00:31:48
Tristan Amundson
yeah yeah
00:31:51
M dub
the all-time example here, and I was shocked the more I looked into this, is Deshaun Watson with the Cleveland Browns. So the Deshaun Watson as a contract, it's a very clear example because unlike a lot of NFL contracts, it was fully guaranteed.
00:32:07
Tristan Amundson
Yep. Yep.
00:32:07
M dub
um So the the terms of the contract that he signed was five years, $230 million, dollars So all 230, unlike most contracts, all 230 of that is going to eventually count against the cap.
00:32:21
M dub
Now, if you thought the Cleveland Browns were in trouble
00:32:21
Tristan Amundson
yeah
00:32:26
M dub
already, um this is, i don't know, that this this is one of the most devastating situations that that I can recall. And the The Browns were in this place like 10 years ago. But the Browns have restructured Deshaun Watson's contract two times.
00:32:43
M dub
So moving money from the base salary into the signing bonus.
00:32:43
Tristan Amundson
Perfect. Good.
00:32:48
M dub
So, so far, he's been on the Browns for three years. So far, the team has has only paid, a get or the team has only taken, against the cap, $56 million dollars in cap with million dollars in cap hit still to come.
00:33:07
M dub
even though they've paid up all this money, they have kept on pushing back through restructuring their responsibility for the cap hit. So they have actually barely had to account for Deshaun Watson on their salary cap, but the money has gone to the player.
00:33:07
Tristan Amundson
Whoa.
00:33:25
M dub
Even if they trade him, even if they cut him, there's there is no getting out of it. they must pay they must ah There's going to be $173 million dollars in cap hits to come. Now, what happens when you restructure, and this is just what happened with but the Leo Williams restructure, is you can push some of that as you kind of level out that signing bonus pushes and into the future years, you can create what's called a void year.
00:33:55
M dub
And um the the math is a little bit complicated, but essentially a void year is saying, we're going to schedule a dead cap hit for the year after you're gone.
00:34:07
Tristan Amundson
well
00:34:08
M dub
And so that's what that's what's happened with Deshaun Watson. And that is what also what happened with this Leonard Williams restructure. So... In recent years, here's some of the Seahawks restructures.
00:34:20
M dub
May 2023, agreed to a restructure with Tyler Lockett. February 2024, we were already doing the podcast with Geno Smith. March 2024, Tyler Lockett again with an extension.
00:34:32
M dub
ah June 2024 with DeCaylen. Oh, no, sorry, sorry. With Draymond Jones, which also included void years for Draymond Jones. Then September of 2024 was with DeCaylen, a.k.a. DK Metcalf.
00:34:46
M dub
That included void years. And then just last week with Leonard Williams, also including void years. So whenever Draymond Jones, DK Metcalf, and Leonard Williams leave the Seahawks, the next year after that, there will be a dead cap hit.
00:35:03
M dub
because of the restructures that the team has done, which moved money from the base salary into the signing bonus and also created void year so that you have an extra year to push off that that signing bonus hit.
00:35:19
M dub
Now, maybe it's a... I could be wrong here. could be very because there's more than one way to build a Super Bowl contender for sure. But the more I looked into it, I don't think...
00:35:33
M dub
ah were I made a little pact with myself that ah that is oh open open to adjustment as actually see how how NFL teams do this. But I really don't think, unless you are a Super Bowl contender and it's like training camp is tra me already underway and we're kind of in the like training camp to trade deadline window and there's like an injury situation.
00:35:49
Tristan Amundson
Here we are. Yep.
00:35:59
M dub
and you restructure some contracts quickly to like get somebody in to fill to fill that, and you're you're restructuring in that like Super Bowl window, i kind of think that's the only acceptable time to do it.
00:36:11
M dub
We can agree, unfortunately, the Seahawks are not quite in that window, and that is a lot of restructuring over the years. So, John Schneider, he had hit the first episode of the John Schneider Show, and he kind of sarcasticated,
00:36:27
M dub
sarcastically described the cap situation as doomsday. He was like, oh yeah, it's doomsday with a salary cap. And I don't think it's doomsday, but here was here's my word for it, is erosion.
00:36:40
M dub
So there's there's no doomsday scenario here, but with each of these restructures, there's just a little bit erosion of what's possible in the next year, two years, three years.
00:36:44
Tristan Amundson
yeah
00:36:51
M dub
And yeah, erosion.
00:36:53
Tristan Amundson
you're You're borrowing money from the future to pay for the present.
00:36:54
M dub
There we go.
00:36:57
Tristan Amundson
And in some ways to pay for past performance, you're you're borrowing money from the future. And so, yeah, certainly your ability to to have a star roster into the future, let's say into 2026 or 2027 and some of these void years,
00:37:14
Tristan Amundson
come into effect is going to has negatively affect you. The only hope is that the salary cap keeps going up at such a clip that it kind of helps to cover some of these sins.
00:37:29
Tristan Amundson
But no matter what, that's less money that you're going to be able to pay a player in that future year. So it really does sound a lot like the financial um philosophy that I took on myself when my wife and I were first married, which was there was a couple of years, you know, work wasn't great. I didn't have a lot of money.
00:37:50
Tristan Amundson
we were trying to figure stuff out. We had some loans. And I remember distinctly saying to myself, Future Tristan, this you're going to have to help me out here. um i i don't I don't got enough.
00:38:01
Tristan Amundson
This is going to be a rough couple of years. Future Tristan, you're going to have to really come up to the plate in the future to help us out because you're going to be paying for some of our sins today.
00:38:14
Tristan Amundson
And I mean, it's it's really that simple, right? It's... it's um It's leveraging your future to be able to to get something that you want now. And I agree with you. If you have a team that's on the the the the precipice of a Super Bowl and you think, hey, if we can do a couple of these restructures, then we can get this guy and he's going to help push our roster over the top.
Super Bowl Success and Financial Strategy
00:38:38
Tristan Amundson
then you could absolutely make the argument knowing, hey, you know what? If we get a Super Bowl today, we don't have to necessarily win the Super Bowl the year after or the year after that. Like, we're okay getting the Super Bowl right now. So I think I agree with you. Those are the moments when you can you can see it. Like, yeah, sure, why not? Like, I mean, kind of the Rams did that, I feel like, a little bit, right? Hey, you get your Super Bowl. Now, they did a great job of drafting and they got right back into it.
00:39:03
Tristan Amundson
But theoretically, they could have been in a really bad spot if they didn't draft the right young talent. so So yeah, yeah. Asking the future Seahawks to pay for the the present sins. as It's an interesting, and it's a tough spot to be in. I mean, you hate to do it. You hate to do it with multiple contracts.
00:39:23
Tristan Amundson
It is nice to hear that it could be worse. We could be Cleveland Brown fans.
00:39:28
M dub
Yes, the the worst situations right now, and the Houston Texans were in a pretty big hole about five years ago, and the Cleveland Browns, unfortunately, again, about five years before that. Those were kind of like really deep holes, like as deep as it gets.
00:39:42
M dub
That is coming up for the Cleveland Browns because of these restructures. And it is also coming up for the New Orleans Saints, which i actually i think benefits getting back to Clint Kubiak. I think the team knows that there is no way around...
00:39:56
M dub
um Because they're still still paying for stuff from the Drew Brees days. They have kind of had the philosophy of just keep on pushing it, keep on pushing it.
00:40:00
Tristan Amundson
Wow. Wow.
00:40:04
M dub
And they're in a situation where I don't think they can really... um Unless some something crazy happens. They cannot put together like a a financially equal NFL roster on the field for the next like three years, because there's just so much dead cap, uh, that they've done.
00:40:19
Tristan Amundson
wow
00:40:22
M dub
So no, the Seahawks are not in the worst situation. They are also not in the best situation. Um, and it, we, we will see how, how the rest of the off season develops. But, um, these are the type of things that, I mean, if if you're getting to August and you're going like, Hey, the Seahawks were a 10 win team last year, why are they expected to take a step backwards? Um,
00:40:45
M dub
um that could be what you're looking at. I don't think there's enough juice in the the spreadsheets to just add, add, add, and take the 10-win team in into Super Bowl contention next year.
00:40:57
Tristan Amundson
Yep.
00:40:58
M dub
Now, that being said, that's just that's the team on paper, and the game is played between the lines, and you know when you if you have breakout players like Josh Jobe everywhere coming from the practice squad and are excellent starters, yeah, yeah.
00:41:08
Tristan Amundson
yep
00:41:11
M dub
I mean, I'm not saying the team can't make the Super Bowl, but The window, the, the you're, you're shooting the moon. You're shooting the moon.
00:41:20
Tristan Amundson
the the yeah the margin for the margin for error gets very, very slim.
00:41:21
M dub
The target's further away.
00:41:26
Tristan Amundson
And you really are now, and I mean, the Rams are a great example of it, right? Like you really have to nail it with the draft. And if you can do that, if you can nail it with the draft, i the Eagles probably a fine example of it also, maybe not in as bad of ah a cap spot, but if you can nail it with the draft, then that can cover a lot of sins. And and I guess maybe the ultimate,
00:41:47
Tristan Amundson
player that can cover sins is a quarterback, right? You get that really great penultimate quarterback. And now suddenly other deficiencies you might have on your, on your team, you know, just magically disappear, right? Because you have that young dynamic quarterback, um you know, Jaden Daniels probably gives the commanders quite a margin for error with their cap and how they're doing things. Cause you can just create things that that you wouldn't be able to do.
00:42:17
Tristan Amundson
with a normal quarterback. and And I think maybe that's another sobering piece of the Seahawks story right now is that as much as we all love Gino and love the story and love the player and think the player is great.
00:42:29
Tristan Amundson
um You know, he, Gino from a, from a money perspective and from an upside perspective doesn't give you, we don't have the luxury of, Hey, and you know what? It's all good. Cause we got Jane Daniels or, or someone like that, right? We, we,
00:42:44
Tristan Amundson
we're kind of in a different spot in the metamorphosis of the team.
00:42:49
M dub
I do think the Rams are actually a great example because that is a team that did go all in on the Super Bowl, both with their salary cap and with their draft assets. And for the last couple of years, they are a terrible team on paper. like when you look at the like They really shouldn't be that good when you look at the roster. And we know from a repeated and painful personal experience that it doesn't really matter with Sean McVay as the head coach and Matthew Stafford as the quarterback.
00:43:17
M dub
the team gets either to the playoffs or on the brink of the playoffs when you kind of look around and you, there's just so many anonymous, yeah every Rams game, it's like, this guy's doing, like, you don't know the players still, even though you see them twice a year, it's like, that could be a four or five win team easily and everybody would kind of go like, oh, well, yeah, i mean, look who your, you know, your linebackers are whatever.
00:43:42
M dub
ah But, yeah, so that's a team that, I guess that would that's but yeah that's a really good example but of saying, hey even even though you are borrowing from your future self, your your future self is is excelling as well because you're coaching up players, you're drafting well, and so forth.
00:44:01
Tristan Amundson
You're doing all the all the other little things. I guess it does just to your point. It puts a premium on doing all those other little things exceptionally well so that you can make up for the fact that you know maybe you have...
00:44:15
Tristan Amundson
I mean, it'd be interesting to to have the number of of how much less money you have against the cap than you should you know technically have if you had no um no credit card debt, so to speak.
00:44:27
Tristan Amundson
um But you know I'm assuming that that amounts to, you know i don't know, what, what a $15 million, $20 million dollars disadvantage, something like that, maybe worse. I mean, um I'm just thinking right now, if I was to add up currently the Leonard Williams, DK Metcalf, Tyler Lockett restructures,
00:44:44
Tristan Amundson
um Amongst a few others, like that's, that's quite a bit of of money that is being, um you know, we're, we're, what's the phrase, Rob Paul to pay Peter, or or maybe it's the other way around. But, um you know, eventually, the the bill does come due.
00:45:02
M dub
Yeah, I still am curious how the NFL got to this place where the books are this complicated. There's no rule that it had to be like, this was all created by the NFL, you know, over the years.
00:45:14
Tristan Amundson
Just for the fun of it. Yeah, just just so you can add some more intrigue. Well, they know how to give us an entertaining product. And this certainly does. It's one more, um I don't know, nuance that you can dig into, certainly. um and And maybe it is a necessary evil when you have a salary cap, right? Like maybe there is, i don't know. i mean, sorry to ask you such an off-base question right now. This is a real jerk thing to do.
00:45:39
Tristan Amundson
But you know basketball pretty well. Does basketball have an equivalent to to restructuring? Do they have to kind of dig into the restructuring world or are they a little bit more living on their debit cards versus their credit cards?
00:45:53
M dub
They're definitely on the debit cards and also the contracts for the most part are completely guaranteed. So so that's, there's like, it's like two additional access where like the NFL is more complicated than the NBA.
00:45:59
Tristan Amundson
Okay, got it.
00:46:05
Tristan Amundson
Yeah. Yeah.
00:46:06
M dub
Yeah.
00:46:07
Tristan Amundson
Yeah, it's a lot like baseball, right?
00:46:07
M dub
Yeah.
00:46:09
Tristan Amundson
Because baseball the same way. It's basically mostly guaranteed contracts, um if not completely. And um and in a non-salary cap league, it's just... but spend what you want. But then unfortunately we do get anomalies like, well, if you're a Dodgers fan, it's not unfortunate. It's great. But for everybody else, it's, it's a bit shocking to see. So, um, you who knows maybe right now, baseball, uh, executives are looking at the salary cap of the NFL. They're salivating. They're saying, Hey, that's, that's what we really want. Or I should say at least owners, um, know, let's, let's get some of the spending under control.
00:46:45
Tristan Amundson
Um, Man, I love it, man. I love this this segment. I think it's really helpful. And it's helpful... I think that there's a level of this. I don't know if this is your intention or not. For me, the emotion I'm getting right now, there's ah there's a level of a splash of cold water to the face.
00:47:03
Tristan Amundson
Kind of a, hey, here's a reality that we're going to be dealing with. Is that your intention? Is that kind of what you were thinking in this? That's that's what's happening to me because I'm looking at our salary cap situation as a Hawks fan saying, and okay, this isn't all roses. like this And there isn't a magical way to get out of this. like You're going to have to pay these these bills and they will come due at the time you probably will least want them to come due.
00:47:28
M dub
That's really funny. I just wanted to know. i just wanted to know what was going on.
00:47:30
Tristan Amundson
Okay.
00:47:32
M dub
i was tired of seeing all these articles and I don't know these terms.
00:47:32
Tristan Amundson
Yeah.
00:47:36
M dub
And I figured it couldn't be that complicated, which is correct. It just takes a little more time. ah And as it turns out, of a splash of cold water to the face. It's just the situation that the 2025 Seahawks find themselves in. But I wasn't trying to like investigate what had gone wrong. i just wanted to know. And then when you look at the Seahawks specifically, it's like, oh gosh, okay.
00:48:03
Tristan Amundson
That's that's gonna that's gonna leave a little bit of a mark.
00:48:06
M dub
second
00:48:06
Tristan Amundson
um Do you want to talk about a guy who's never worried about a salary cap in his life?
00:48:13
M dub
Oh my gosh. I'd love to. A guy who has competed his entire adult life and never stopped. And never cared what the record book said. And he really doesn't.
00:48:26
M dub
He really just cares about competing. It sounds like it means nothing. But really, it means everything because the man lives it. Tristan Pete Carroll is back in the NFL today.
00:48:39
M dub
He has nothing to do with the Seattle Seahawks, and yet it feels important, feels emotional, it feels positive, feels good. We're going to have an eye on the Las Vegas Raiders this year as Pete Carroll becomes the oldest coach in NFL history in his first year with Tom Brady, with Mark Davis, with Gardner Minshew,
00:49:02
M dub
And the Raiders, out of the desert. He's out of the desert. He's been used to these these moderate climbs of beautiful Renton. Come on, it can't be that. That's how much he cares.
00:49:13
M dub
He's willing to be out there in the 100-degree heat.
00:49:16
Tristan Amundson
i am i was so excited when i when I saw this news. And I have a number of Raiders fans, friends, I should say, that are Raiders fans. And um my text messages to them, i think that this was the perfect signing for the Raiders. I really do. And i this isn't...
00:49:33
Tristan Amundson
This isn't phenomenal take that, you know, a lot of people have already said this or or think it anyway. But if you think about the biggest problem with the Raiders, in my mind, it's that you've you've had a really flawed culture.
00:49:49
Tristan Amundson
You've had, i would say, a ah um a fundamentally flawed culture from almost from, from, from the top down with the Raiders.
00:50:00
Tristan Amundson
and And the way that I would describe it is every other Raiders coach, maybe save John Gruden because he was able to do it a little differently because he had some gravitas, but every other Raiders coach and anyone else they would have hired,
00:50:16
Tristan Amundson
would have come in to the Raiders organization and they would have had to pay homage to the Raiders. They would have had to pay homage to the ghosts of Raiders past. And those ghosts haunt those coaches. and And they you can see it kind of ruins their philosophy and the way that they're trying to do their job because they have to constantly talk about the quote unquote Raiders way. And they have to constantly talk about the way it used to be and and you know just Wind Baby and all of that stuff.
00:50:44
Tristan Amundson
and As people, as companies, as organizations, whatever it is, if you're constantly trying to pay homage to and and look back to what you used to be, it makes makes it really hard to move forward and become productive.
00:51:00
Tristan Amundson
And I think that's been the bugaboo with the Raiders for a long time. Pete is so unique and his age actually plays into it because he's been around and he has a very firm philosophy.
00:51:13
Tristan Amundson
i think Pete is one of the few people on the planet that could go to the Raiders and truly change their culture in a positive way. While simultaneously, I'm about to kind of double talk here, but I don't think it is.
00:51:26
Tristan Amundson
while some simultaneously knowing the history of the Raiders and loving the history of the Raiders. He's it's not like he's going to pretend like it didn't happen, but Pete is not going to be held captive to the ghosts of Raiders past, which I think is really, really powerful for that organization.
00:51:44
Tristan Amundson
And, and I, I think, and I think you'll agree with me that the NFL is better just like, you know, the every every um every league is better when they have certain franchises that are doing well and the nfl is better with a with a healthy raiders organization it's better to have the raiders kind of be a part of of the landscape and not be a laughing stock so i'm i'm very hopeful i'll be watching a ton what what what were your initial thoughts as you just kind of took on this news
00:52:18
M dub
You know, i get that is I really appreciate those points about the history. I hadn't thought about that, about the history being like a weight.
00:52:26
Tristan Amundson
Yes.
00:52:26
M dub
um But i I completely agree. It's so funny. We don't really have an affiliation with this team, the Raiders. And yet we do both want them to succeed because, yes, there is something awesome about it when the Raiders are doing well.
00:52:40
M dub
What an emotional journey to be a Raiders fan. I mean, there's really nothing like it because this team gets yanked around from city to city. There's been four different chapters now, Oakland to Los Angeles to Oakland to Las Vegas.
00:52:54
M dub
The fans are very loyal. And Tristan, I looked it up. I think we could, it's safe to say Seahawks Nation was a little disappointed and a little peeved with the 10 and seven season this year, right? A little underwhelmed.
00:53:07
Tristan Amundson
Yeah.
00:53:09
M dub
the rate In the last 20 years, the Raiders have had two winning seasons. it's It's hard to imagine how... I mean, that could happen, right?
00:53:22
M dub
I mean, it happened to the Raiders.
00:53:22
Tristan Amundson
Yeah. yeah
00:53:23
M dub
Like, who's to say that's not the next... I don't think it will be, but, you know...
00:53:28
Tristan Amundson
They got more Super Bowls in their cabinet than we do. You know, they got more of those Lombardi trophies in their cabinet than the Seahawks do. So yeah, it's a good point. If it can happen to them.
00:53:36
M dub
And that's coming up. Yeah. That era starting when they got to the Super Bowl, the AFC Championship game with John Gruden.
00:53:37
Tristan Amundson
Yeah.
00:53:42
M dub
Like, they weren't looking at like a cliff for the next 20 years and Even taking it back to like the Browns and the Saints are in a bad situation. Yeah, they're in a bad situation for the next three years, not the next 20 years. you know like um That's crazy. That's so long. there's i mean I have to think back to being a kid. and One of the first sports cards I ever had was a Tim Brown card.
00:54:05
M dub
and I loved this card. I thought it was cool. and That was like the last time the Raiders were good. um so anyway
00:54:14
Tristan Amundson
It's wild. So i I do have to cover our um cover our cover the podcast a little bit.
00:54:16
M dub
um
00:54:21
Tristan Amundson
You just said something that I think will offend a portion of the the listening public. And so i need to, well, listen, I got called out on this um from from a dear friend listening to the podcast when I referred to it as, quote, Seahawks Nation.
00:54:26
M dub
Oh my gosh. What have I just said?
00:54:39
M dub
oh my gosh.
00:54:39
Tristan Amundson
And my my friend, Skyler reached out to me, my dear friend, college roommate, great man, Skyler reached out to me and he said, listen, man,
00:54:40
M dub
That's right.
00:54:50
Tristan Amundson
There's only one nation. I mean, there is only one nation the NFL, and that is Raiders Nation. And i i I listened to his input. I thought about it, and I was like, you know what?
00:55:02
Tristan Amundson
um That's true. You know, we have the Hawks nest. We we talk about, you know, the the the um the community that we have with the Seahawks. But I am very...
00:55:15
Tristan Amundson
willing to, and I hope Skyler's listening right now, i am very willing to seed the terminology that, yes, there is Raiders Nation, full stop.
00:55:27
Tristan Amundson
And yeah, and then, you know, that there's everybody else. say the ah That's there. I feel like it's there. So are you willing? can we Can we give that to Skyler and the family?
00:55:35
M dub
I thought I'd insulted Tim Brown or something.
00:55:39
Tristan Amundson
Nope, no, not at all.
00:55:40
M dub
Yeah, I wanted to do that.
00:55:40
Tristan Amundson
Only Skyler.
00:55:41
M dub
i wanted do
00:55:41
Tristan Amundson
So yeah, I think, well, and of Raiders Nation, potentially. I don't know. i I'm assuming he speaks for all of his brothers and sisters, so.
00:55:50
M dub
Yeah, well, anyway. um Yeah. ah it could be the It is interesting because you you know he's not going to be the coach for the next 10 or 15 years like he was in Seattle.
00:56:00
Tristan Amundson
Yep.
00:56:01
M dub
But... he He could really be the kindling that starts the fire.
00:56:07
Tristan Amundson
Well, and I would argue, I like you say that, I would argue he doesn't have to be the coach for the next 10 years for it to be successful.
00:56:07
M dub
and
00:56:14
Tristan Amundson
Because I would argue that Pete can fix their culture in two or three years.
00:56:14
M dub
Right, right.
00:56:19
Tristan Amundson
And he can kind of get them on the right path moving forward. So i it's funny, I think that Pete, over the next couple of years, can fix the Raiders' long-term problem that they actually have as as an organization.
00:56:34
Tristan Amundson
i don't i don't know if that, does that, what do you think about that thought?
00:56:37
M dub
No, I think you're right. I think this this is one of the very few alley-oop coaching hires in in in NFL history. Where you it's like, he's... Not that he won't have success, but he's really kind of doing it to set up like the next chapter after him. Just, ah you know, I mean, what he's doing at age... He'll be 74, I think, when next season starts. What he's doing is absolutely unbelievable.
00:57:03
M dub
but But, you know, for... for 15, 20 years from now, or for the Raiders have a really long-term coach.
00:57:09
Tristan Amundson
Yep.
00:57:09
M dub
It's been a long, it's been like decades since they've had a coach for like more than five years, which Pete could do.
00:57:14
Tristan Amundson
Yeah, no.
00:57:15
M dub
I wouldn't be that surprised, but I looked at it. It has been since the nineties that they've had a coach for a five-year period.
00:57:22
Tristan Amundson
I would love what i hope happens. And obviously NFL is such a wacky place. Who knows what's going to happen? What I hope happens though, is that Pete is able to,
00:57:33
Tristan Amundson
with Tom Brady work this through so that let's, let's get a good foundation for this team. Let's get some good winning seasons with Pete, right? That's, that's, that's my biggest hope for Pete. I Pete that I hope that Pete has a winning season every year that he's the coach of the Raiders.
00:57:50
Tristan Amundson
And I hope that that lasts for as long as he wants it to last. And I would love it if it's one of those deals where he has a, um um ah what's the word I'm looking for when you have a plan,
00:58:03
Tristan Amundson
of someone taking over a position, a succession.
00:58:05
M dub
Succession plan.
00:58:07
Tristan Amundson
Thank you. I would, I would love to me, that would be the absolute dream scenario that Pete and Tom are able to create a succession plan. Hey, this is going to be my last year. Let's just for the the fun of conversation, 2028 is going to be my last year coaching 2029.
00:58:24
Tristan Amundson
two thousand and twenty nine you know, this guy's going to take over and you guys are going to be off to the races. And, you know, he's been my offensive coordinator the whole time or whatever it is. That would just be a gorgeous way for Pete to be able to ride off into the sunset and add to his resume that he restored one of the great NFL franchises.
00:58:43
Tristan Amundson
And I absolutely hope that happens.
00:58:46
M dub
I hope it happens, and i actually do think it'll happen. I think the team will, they could have one of the most thrilling seven to ten or 8-9 seasons next year. i mean, they've got a long way to go.
00:58:57
M dub
i think even that for year one could, even that could get a snowball going downhill.
00:59:03
Tristan Amundson
Yeah, well, i I hope to find myself at a Raiders game next year so that I can have a long winded philosophical conversation with a gentleman that is wearing like a um ah skull face mask and and massive shoulder pads with spikes coming out of it and and other weird deno demonic, you know, kind of um um ah paraphernalia, perhaps a ah pirate.
00:59:30
Tristan Amundson
i would I would love to hold court with, um with, with some of the, the vaunted intellectual, um, prowess of Raiders nation and, and just, just talk philosophy and talk about getting the most out of individuals and young men, um and, and doing things the right way and elevating,
00:59:51
Tristan Amundson
um ah the Raiders nation to where it once can be again. So I'm looking forward to that. that's That's my hope is that I can really dig deep with some of these individuals about um about life, about life philosophy and how that can correlate into winning football. So I think it's goingnna be it's going to be a really fun year with some great conversations um as um you know this little hawkling reaches across the aisle um and and shakes hands with Raiders nation.
01:00:23
M dub
Reaches your wing across the aisle.
01:00:24
Tristan Amundson
That's right. Yeah.
01:00:25
M dub
Yeah.
01:00:25
Tristan Amundson
A wing to um to a hook, to a captain hook type deal. I think that'll be perfect.
01:00:35
M dub
You know what? Even as that man with his skulls and his hooks ah looks back at Pete Carroll's resume and the history of the Seahawks, I think i think there's one thing that but even that man in Raiders clothes would say to us.
01:00:50
M dub
You know what i think he'd say?
01:00:51
Tristan Amundson
What do you think?
01:00:53
M dub
I think he'd say, go Hawks.
01:00:55
Tristan Amundson
I think he'd say, just win, baby. But then he'd say, go Hawks.