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Week 17 - Punter’s Paradise
25 Plays10 months ago
Tristan and Miles talk about the lowest-scoring games in Seahawks history, the emotions of a few fleeting hours rooting for the Cardinals, and Miles tips out all the soap and stands on his soapbox.
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Transcript
Emotions and Hope in Sports
00:00:00
Tristan Amundson
miles in sports, hope is a strange thing. Hope takes you along for a ride and it brings you to a place that you can only find through sports, I think. I don't think that's hyperbolic.
00:00:19
Tristan Amundson
and Hope in sports is so unique and so fun. and And we just found ourselves in the middle of a whirlwind, and in the middle of a tornado of hope and joy and expectations and some things in our control and some things out of our control. I don't quite know how to put a bow on this, is that except to say,
00:00:44
Tristan Amundson
I guess just the really simple fact. The Seahawks did what they had to do in this late, late hour and we had a little hope and we had the makings of a really cool story. A story that we don't get to talk about because something else happened that, that maybe, I don't know, maybe I'll leave it to you to, to tell the other part of the story because, Hey, listen, the Seahawks, they did it.
Seahawks' Historic Low-Scoring Games
00:01:12
Tristan Amundson
We won. We won an ugly game, but I guess it just wasn't enough.
00:01:17
M dub
Tristan, you're absolutely right about hope. The tank is empty at this point in time, but I can tell you somehow through some resource, I know that tank's going to be full again in April and it'll be full again next September when we look towards week one, whatever it is. But yes, the take is empty now after, yes, the Seahawks, this happened last year where the Seahawks got a win at the very end of the year and it seemed to matter so little. Seahawks get the win on Thursday night football.
00:01:52
M dub
The final score was six to three. We're talking about this several days after the game ended. And I know that there has been NFL football on pretty much on a constant basis since the Seahawks wrapped that game up.
00:02:06
M dub
And I know people are still buzzing about this one. The punting, this these punters were amazing. they punt cut i mean you You can't escape the conversation about this game.
00:02:11
Tristan Amundson
Gorgeous. Yeah.
00:02:16
M dub
We're definitely not late to it right now. the the discussion about the punting, the the quantity, the quality. um It was a magnificent game for punters.
00:02:24
Tristan Amundson
Everyone wants to talk about it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this is a game that if you just go on the front page of yeah ESPN, the first five articles are just about the Mayusha, Mayusha, Mayusha of the Seahawks Bears game and just the the beautiful thing that it was. Six to three. You don't see that every day, man. You don't. I mean, that's that's unique.
00:02:50
M dub
People are at the Amazon headquarters right now hoping for a replay. Can we get a full replay of this game? Tristan, I went into the depths of pro football reference. I'm very afraid that I have mentioned this game before on this podcast, which this is an obscure one. But I did want to report that. So there were 13 total punts in this game. ah Any guesses on how that stacks up to the all time record for a number of punts in an NFL game?
00:03:20
Tristan Amundson
You know, it's funny. I do feel like you've referenced this before, which is really scary.
00:03:23
M dub
i'll get there Quickly so this is this isn't even half the punts of the record in an NFL game There are 27 punts when the Chargers played the Raiders in 1998 so 13 this game 27 in that one the Raiders punted on 14 straight possessions and I did want to report that in that game the Chargers read by led by Ryan leaf at quarterback Did have more yards than the Chicago Bears had in this game in total um so
00:03:32
Tristan Amundson
Okay.
00:03:49
Tristan Amundson
Whoa.
00:03:53
M dub
This is a ah game that the Seattle Seahawks played. They played 60 minutes of NFL football, and between both teams, nine points were scored. This is the, by my count, hopefully I'm right here, it's the 1,811th game in Seahawks history. And I can tell you, there is not another game in that entire history, going back into the 70s, where under nine points were scored.
00:04:21
M dub
This is the lowest, but it is tied with one game in the Seahawks long history. There was another game where also nine points were scored. I'll let you know what happened in the 21st century. Does, does this ring any bells for you at all? This, I mean, this is the difficulties scale. This is off the charts difficulty. This is a cruel question to even ask hypothetically, but, um, I'm sure once I get into the details, uh,
00:04:49
M dub
that dusty corner of your brain will start remembering what happened.
00:04:55
Tristan Amundson
Okay. and Let's take our time on this. This will be fun. Yeah, but this will be fun. Let's take our time. Um, okay. I have a guess, believe it or not, um, about the opponent, who it was.
00:05:07
Tristan Amundson
So I'll, I'll give you the guests. I'm assuming I'll be wrong, but let's start there. And then eventually, eventually whittle me down to, to the year and I'll try to, I'll try to take another shot at it.
00:05:14
M dub
I assume you'll be right.
00:05:20
Tristan Amundson
So, uh, So i'm here's my gut Tampa Bay. That's my gut that it was a a game against Tampa Bay.
00:05:29
M dub
It's not Tampa Bay. i'll ah I'll let you know the Seahawks lost this game.
00:05:33
Tristan Amundson
OK. Um.
00:05:36
M dub
You're on the losing end of a six to three game.
00:05:39
Tristan Amundson
oh my god
00:05:41
M dub
The starting quarterback in this game threw 12 completions out of 30 attempts for 97 total yards.
00:05:48
Tristan Amundson
So you're, you're telling me you you want me to remember the ugliest Seahawks game that I've probably been trying to forget.
00:05:56
M dub
This was a quarterback who did not regularly start games.
00:05:56
Tristan Amundson
Can you get,
00:06:00
M dub
In fact, in his career, he only started a handful of games ever, but became a bit of a minor NFL celebrity for his, his laid back persona, his ability to, uh, to hang
Seahawks vs. Bears: Defense vs. Offense
00:06:14
M dub
in there as a second stringer.
00:06:16
Tristan Amundson
um,
00:06:17
Tristan Amundson
I mean, with the way you just said that makes me think Charlie Whitehurst, but I hope it's not him. Is it?
00:06:22
M dub
Oh, Oh, Oh, it's him.
00:06:24
Tristan Amundson
Touchdown, Jesus.
00:06:24
M dub
It's him.
00:06:25
Tristan Amundson
OK, so it's it's Charlie. Oh, my gosh.
00:06:29
M dub
I always heard clipboard Jesus.
00:06:29
Tristan Amundson
OK, so. Oh, clip. Yes, yes. Clipboard Jesus. That's right. Yeah. Thank you. That's correct. um Oh, my gosh. A Charlie Whitehurst game. That's that's rough.
00:06:40
Tristan Amundson
um
00:06:43
Tristan Amundson
Oh, I'm trying to even think, can you give me a year? Do you have the year handy?
00:06:47
M dub
Yeah, we're we're pretty much in on it now. So it's October of 2011, the start of the Pete Carroll era, just before the arrival of one Russell Wilson.
00:06:58
Tristan Amundson
Okay, so it's the year before. So, um okay, I guess I give up a little bit. i But I mean, i I'm picturing this team because, okay, but here's the context of this team then.
00:07:10
Tristan Amundson
Pete has just become coach. This is I think the team where the Seahawks had the record um amount of transactions that year because they were just constantly like looking for every free agent, every guy off the street to figure out who who the core of this team was going to be. So this was a team.
00:07:30
Tristan Amundson
in massive flux. And this is the year before Russell and Bobby arrived. So the year before that massive draft class. So KJ would would have been on this team, I believe.
00:07:42
M dub
We would have had a ah lot of the defensive pieces from the 2013 champions, which is maybe why they only gave up six points to the opponent.
00:07:42
Tristan Amundson
Just.
00:07:49
Tristan Amundson
OK, give it to me.
00:07:50
M dub
I mean, yeah, it was the Cleveland Browns.
00:07:52
Tristan Amundson
I'm I'm. ah Oh, yeah, OK, huh.
00:07:53
M dub
I'm sure it's a game that we, I'm glad we got there a bonus. i There was also another memorable one was the six, six tie against the Cardinals.
00:08:05
M dub
That was in 2016. Um, the regulars though regular season game that had the many missed field goals at the end. And um even that game had more points than this one.
00:08:16
M dub
And yeah, what what a historic thing we saw. 811 games in Seahawks history and none of them with a lower score than this one. The tape, I try to get back into the tape a couple of times after watching it.
00:08:30
M dub
And well,
00:08:30
Tristan Amundson
VHS the you get the old VHS player out and you pop it in or or is it is it the kind that's behind you with the real and you you and go, you know, and a it's as a projector on on your kitchen wall.
00:08:34
M dub
it was, well.
00:08:43
Tristan Amundson
yeah That's the way I i envision coaches watching tape. It's there at their dining room table.
00:08:47
M dub
i stack yeah I stacked the the camera on a ah couple cans of peas and but pointed at the wall.
00:08:54
Tristan Amundson
Yeah.
00:08:56
M dub
I did look at NFL Plus on my smart television for this one and the tape really bounces off your eyes.
00:09:00
Tristan Amundson
Hmm.
00:09:04
M dub
It resists being watched um six to three and with all the points being scored in the first half as well.
00:09:13
Tristan Amundson
Not, not the prettiest game. can Can I give you my captain positive to start with? Just that.
00:09:19
M dub
There's a lot of positive. You're a limited opponent to three points in the whole NFL.
00:09:23
Tristan Amundson
That's something.
00:09:24
M dub
pun I mean, that's not nothing. I don't care who it is. I know the bears are, are not contending for the super bowl this year, but I mean, three points is no joke.
00:09:34
Tristan Amundson
Um, well, so to your point, Witherspoon, let's maybe start with the defense.
00:09:35
M dub
Let's hear the positives.
00:09:39
Tristan Amundson
I was thinking offense, but defense is a good place to start because you're right. They they were the stars of the game.
00:09:43
M dub
I think most of the positives are going to be on the defense. here
00:09:45
Tristan Amundson
Yeah. Um, although it's funny because my first was an offensive positive, which is kind of funny.
00:09:50
M dub
oh what whoa
00:09:52
Tristan Amundson
Um, I think this is the best game of Geno Smith. No, never. that's a that's That's not my real opinion. um the ah so So the first thing that comes to mind ah watching this game, Witherspoon jumped off the tape again, right?
00:10:07
Tristan Amundson
Like as usual, he was all over the place making some of those fun tackles in the backfield. um And it did seem like watching this team, or the defensive line, you know, another fun game for Leo, another fun game,
00:10:15
M dub
Oh, whoa.
00:10:22
Tristan Amundson
So for Murphy, I feel like Murphy is an interesting guy to watch every week because you he, you just see him get a little better every week. I feel like we see Byron Murphy get like 2% better every single week. I don't know if that's your take watching him or not, but he just every week seems, excuse me, seems a little more comfortable and and like he's dictating all the defensive line just a little bit more. again This is against a terrible chicago bears team so you know we should take it with a grain of salt but fun fun i guess. Here's here's my first take fun watching those two foundational pieces of the defense look the part and and if we want to talk about hope springs eternal right that you're the well is dry today.
00:11:10
Tristan Amundson
In a couple of weeks, we'll start thinking about next year, right? You know, the season's going to be over after next Sunday. And suddenly, the second this season is in the ground, the well of 2025 starts springing up and you start thinking about the hope. And two cornerstones like Devin Witherspoon and Byron Murphy, that's a pretty fun, a pretty fun place for a defense to start with two super young talented players.
00:11:37
M dub
Absolutely. Byron Murphy playing, uh, I know he's not leaping off or he's not kind of, uh, at the top of anybody's name, anybody's rankings in terms of defensive player of the year, but the Seahawks got a starter in the first round and that's a success.
00:11:53
Tristan Amundson
Yeah.
00:11:54
M dub
That's a success story in this game. Byron Murphy was in there for 32, 32 snaps, 52%. That's right in there with Jared Reed and Draymont Jones. Um, yeah, that's a real rotation player.
00:12:06
M dub
Speaking, here's how good this defense was, Tristan. So i I mentioned that ah the Bears had fewer yards in this game than even the Chargers in a game with 27 points. The Bears had 179 total yards in this game, just for fun. I looked back at two two prominent teams in Seahawks history, 2013 and 2014, the two Super Bowl teams in Pete Carroll.
00:12:31
M dub
In 2013, the Seahawks allowed fewer yards than this, only one time. I mean, this was this is a special yardage performance, even for that 2013 team. The 2014 team only did it two times. This was this was barely any yards. And then also seven sacks from from the defense as well. i Yeah, it was amazing.
00:12:54
Tristan Amundson
179 yards, totally yards given up. um To your point, the seven sacks. Can I tell you the stat that I just, as we spoke, as we're speaking, I just looked it up expecting to see a different number than what I'm looking at right now. but Can you think of what that might be? that A number, I'm a little flabbergasted.
Analyzing Seahawks' Gameplay and Future
00:13:12
Tristan Amundson
I thought that there was going to be a disparity here and it's not. What stat do you think I'm looking at? I'm like, wait, what? That's that's how it turned out?
00:13:21
M dub
the number of points. There were only nine points in this game. Um, the number of first downs was pretty equal. Is that what you well you were looking at?
00:13:27
Tristan Amundson
Well, well it's it's extremely related to that.
00:13:28
M dub
so Okay.
00:13:31
Tristan Amundson
you're You're right on it. Time of possession. As I watch this game, especially like that first drive, I think they they held the ball for like the first six minutes of the game.
00:13:41
Tristan Amundson
like It was a great like first opening drive. And the more I watched it, it just felt like we were absorbing the clock constantly. The fact that this is, I'm just going to call it, it's a 50-50 split. Like both teams possess the ball almost entirely equally. The Bears actually possessing the ball 20 seconds more than the Seahawks. that's Does that surprise you? i I thought that this was a game where the Seahawks possessed the ball a lot more than apparently they did. I mean, it was it's a 50-50 split.
00:14:12
M dub
I, it is surprising. I think maybe what you see is that the Seahawks did have to sustain drives for the field goals. And so that feels like it takes a lot of time. And then there were a lot of three and out. So a lot of times where you you got Michael Dixon ah on the field pretty quickly. And I think that's where it ended up bouncing out. This like bears drive for their own field goal actually took us amount of surprising amount of time as well. It happened in the second quarter. you It's about an eight minute drive.
00:14:42
M dub
So you don't it didn't really feel significant as you're watching it. You didn't realize these were going to be some of the only points on the scoreboard in the entire game. But yeah, the Bears took up um half the second quarter with a drive for field goal. that That has to be where the number evened out.
00:14:59
Tristan Amundson
That's exciting football. I mean, take up seven minutes to get a field goal. The Seahawks, you know I guess to my point, that first drive took up six minutes to get that sweet field goal. So it's ah it's exciting football. I will say um it was fun to watch, at least in the beginning of this game,
00:15:17
Tristan Amundson
yeah Zach and kenny were getting some nice chunk yardage play some good ten yard run you know ten yard long run eleven obviously kenny had that nice twenty five yard run in there that there is definitely moments where it felt like hey this running game feels like it's.
00:15:34
Tristan Amundson
yeah I'm not going to say coming alive. This, it feels like they're trying to commit to the running game. It was an ugly day. We should maybe mention that too. This was a bad weather, ugly weather game. Now we've seen much worse and with much better offensive output.
00:15:48
Tristan Amundson
So in fact, maybe I shouldn't mention it because it was an ugly day, but it wasn't like the worst. It wasn't torrential.
00:15:55
M dub
It was a, it was a piercing drizzle upon the field. I would say piercing.
00:16:00
Tristan Amundson
We just, ter it was a terribly mediocre game. Yeah, like, I mean, that's...
00:16:07
M dub
I do think you're right about the running backs though. At the end of last year, we saw Kenny McIntosh either got zero or one carries the entire year last year. And you did kind of wonder, Hey, Hey, what did what are the Seahawks have in this guy? He was a, a late draft pick, but a draft pick after all.
00:16:24
M dub
It did take the unfortunate circumstance of injuries to Kenneth Walker to end this year, to really get Kenny McIntosh on the field. But I think you're seeing that, Hey, this, this is a pretty reliable option here as your third option at running back. And, um, it can, it were kind of it's kind of easy to take it for granted maybe because.
00:16:44
M dub
Charbonnet's draft position was so similar to K9's in the second round, but we're we're not seeing the running game skip a beat um in in these games where K9 is at with an injury.
00:16:55
Tristan Amundson
Yeah, no, Kenny looks great. and and I totally agree with you. It is fun to see what we have in him. um Another, like, I mean, it's just so funny. I'm just looking at all the stats right now from, even from the wide receivers. I mean, there's really nothing to say. Even Jackson Smith and Jigba, like he had a few fun plays, but man, there really isn't a lot to say about there's, you can only, we can only shine this thing so much before before we're just going crazy.
00:17:25
Tristan Amundson
Kenny did look good though. I'll give you that. Like that was a fun part of the game to watch. I'm i'm running out of material I think on this game though.
00:17:32
M dub
all right Interesting not to me, and this' there's not very much material left here, but um I went on a ah deep dive last week talking about the the run-pass mix from the Seahawks across the entire year and how at any point they're trailing in a game, even by the smallest of margins, you've really seen the team abandon the run.
00:17:55
M dub
So in this game, the Seahawks did not trail at any point. um So you accordingly saw, I think, a very good run-pass mix. So we got that accomplished.
00:18:06
M dub
um I can't add the numbers that quick in my head, but it it is about 50-50 between run and pass for the Seahawks.
00:18:12
Tristan Amundson
Oh, sorry. yeah I got in front of me right now. So, uh, we rushed the ball 25 times and Gino, Gino's attempts.
00:18:15
M dub
Oh.
00:18:21
Tristan Amundson
He was 17 for, uh, for 20 or 20, 17 for 23. Um, so, so 17 receipt receptions. We tried to throw it 23 times.
00:18:33
Tristan Amundson
So yeah, just a little better than a 50 50 split on the attempts.
00:18:37
M dub
Yeah, there's also the three sacks of their, you know, some of Gina's attempts were scrambled. So it's pretty, it's pretty close to, um,
00:18:43
Tristan Amundson
OK, so there you go. So basically 50 50. Yeah, got it.
00:18:47
M dub
which I think is more like what we were looking for because when the Seahawks were trailing, it was about 31% rushing, which I think we can both, has weakened both the run game and the pass game over the entire year because it allowed the defense to so to say, they're probably going to pass.
00:18:54
Tristan Amundson
Yeah.
00:19:05
M dub
And when the defense is starting to see, you know, Jake Bobo, A.J. Barn or Pharrell Brown on the field, that's when they're going, OK, this one's a run. it It was kind of getting signaled pretty clearly both ways.
00:19:18
M dub
um So the run pass mix worked, but. ah Air yards, ah the amount of and so pro football reference tracks, air yards,
00:19:28
Tristan Amundson
Ooh. That's great.
00:19:32
M dub
Um, they started tracking it in 2018 and it's important to remember that intended air yards, those are not all completed. They're just simply tracking every, the the the total amount of distance past the line of scrimmage, the ball travels, whether it's complete or incomplete. So they have a status as 2018. So we're missing Gino's years with the jets, but since then his average per game is about 230 intended air yards. And there are six games this year.
00:20:01
M dub
where Gino has had over 300 intended air yards. ah This is the lowest track in pro football reference. And so if his average is 230 in this game, and it was tempting to say, oh, is was it because Gino's hurt?
00:20:19
M dub
we We do know that he's playing hurt, but he had a a couple of his runs were where the runs were of very effective runs.
00:20:25
Tristan Amundson
Oh, yeah.
00:20:28
M dub
he He got some crucial extra yards on some of those runs. So I'm not sure if you can, I know Geno's hurt, but I don't think you could say this happened because he was hurt.
00:20:41
M dub
55 intended air yards in this game.
00:20:43
M dub
It's the lost traps.
00:20:43
Tristan Amundson
Whoa.
00:20:46
Tristan Amundson
That's incredible.
00:20:47
M dub
So that's really missing that. That's a lot of the playbook just completely gone. I mean, it's a lot of the playbook gone. And believe it or not, the second lowest total in Geno's time since 2018 was in a victory. It was last year's blowout victory over the Giants on Monday night. He only had 78 intended areaards. And that was a game where the defense scored some points and you didn't really need the offense to be moving or passing the ball very much. It was almost a night off for Geno.
00:21:19
M dub
still had 78 air yards in that game. The next lowest was the blowout at the hands of the Bills earlier this year, where he still had 85 intended air yards. So when he watched the passes, they really are all almost dump offs. And um I think fans had the best game. He definitely he led the team in both receptions and yards. And a lot of those were were, I mean, very short intended air yard passes and and faint got some crucial Yeah, so um i'm not i I'm not sure why that happened. ah
00:21:57
Tristan Amundson
It yeah, I mean
00:21:58
M dub
That's a dramatic change week to week, pretty much out of nowhere.
00:22:02
Tristan Amundson
It was an atypical game in every in every sense. Yeah. And so, yeah, how do we absorb that? Do we say that Chicago's defense did something that really upset the the rhythm or whatever of the Seahawks offense?
Fan Engagement and Game Perception
00:22:16
Tristan Amundson
Do we say that the Seahawks were like, we know what kind of game this is. Like, we're just going to run the hell out of it and and win at the last minute. Like, what? Yeah. How did that all go down? Is Geno's health involved in that? Is it?
00:22:30
Tristan Amundson
Who knows like what what the magic ah quadrant is that that that caused such a disparity um in context of this is one of the you know leading offensive passing games in the league this year, right? I mean, this is this is ah an elite um or at at the very least a high volume passing attack. So, yeah, very, we a very strange, a typical game, terrible game to watch, terrible game to Um, you know, in fact, this is a great example. The Minnesota game last week was a great game to watch. We lost it, but it was a great game to watch. It was a fun, interesting, that was a great NFL football game. It was, I always'll always say it, right? If if you're in Gainesville and you're watching this game, you're like, Hey, that's, that was a fun, that was a good football game. This is a game that if you're watching it and you're not a fan of either of these teams, you're turning it off at
00:23:27
Tristan Amundson
I don't know halfway through the second quarter. I think probably it's probably seven minutes left in the second and you say, all right, let's let's see if Desperate Housewives is on or something. We're just going to switch over and watch something else.
00:23:40
M dub
If I may say though, what a great game to listen to a podcast about.
00:23:44
Tristan Amundson
Oh, my gosh.
00:23:44
M dub
Am I right?
00:23:45
Tristan Amundson
Yeah, I mean, this is a podcast.
00:23:45
M dub
Yeah. Wow.
00:23:47
Tristan Amundson
OK, so let's I'm going to. Or at least you can keep talking about the game if you want. I think I'm done with this game. Let's talk a little bit about the Rams game because that's really okay. We have the two, and I think it has to be discussed, right? Because if if we're going to put a bow on this season, and I think this week is the, we start wrapping the present, right? And and we put the bow next week.
00:24:14
Tristan Amundson
It this season started or this week started on Thursday with the hope of the Seahawks might we still got we got a shot. We did our job. Ugly game. But a win is a win. Let's move on. We have a chance still to to win this division. And Arizona almost gave it to us. I mean, Arizona, we were so close. I believe. Tell me if you think this is correct. I think that if the tight end for Arizona McBride, I believe Trey McBride, if he, if, if he churns his head, if he starts the process of looking to catch a football.
00:24:50
M dub
Yes.
00:25:00
Tristan Amundson
a quarter of a second earlier. I think that's all his brain needed. I think all his hand-eye coordination needed was a quarter of a second faster reaction time. And I think we're talking about, we have one of the funnest games of the year coming up, Rams, Seahawks, to decide everything in the division.
00:25:22
Tristan Amundson
I mean, dejected. well What do we...
00:25:26
M dub
I want want to put a blanket over this conversation with the Seahawks were in a position where they needed another game where they were not on the field to go a certain way.
00:25:34
Tristan Amundson
Needed help. Yep.
00:25:37
M dub
So all already the season, the the rains are in your hands the entire season.
00:25:37
Tristan Amundson
We needed help.
00:25:40
Tristan Amundson
You did it to yourself.
Playoff Hopes and Missed Opportunities
00:25:45
M dub
And as the year has gone on, it's funny, I didn't think about it that much when it happened, but as the year has gone on, I'm sure you've you've thought the same thing. you've gone back to that Giants game.
00:25:56
M dub
A Giants game that beat the Seahawks in Seattle.
00:25:56
Tristan Amundson
Pretty big. Yeah, pretty big.
00:26:01
M dub
They cut the quarterback who beat the Seahawks. They lost about 10 games in a row. They went from like October to the other day without winning a game. And you think about that one. So by losing that game back in October, the Seahawks did hand the reins over.
00:26:15
M dub
So you can't complain too much. However, I Maybe it was because it was a Saturday night game. I didn't realize it was on Saturday and until Saturday itself. But um I want to go back a little bit earlier. this This game did not cover the Cardinals or the Rams in glory. so
00:26:33
Tristan Amundson
No, I mean, another pretty ugly game. Yeah. It's kind of funny. I mean, sorry, keep, keep going. But I just want to say this. It would have been a hilarious, hilarious, like next week to be talking about like the two, the juggernauts of the Rams versus the Seahawks as they both like limp into the final game of the year. Anyway, sorry. Keep going.
00:26:54
M dub
No, you're totally right. The world's only Rams podcast was not intimidated by what they saw the Seahawks put on tape.
00:26:59
Tristan Amundson
Thrilled.
00:27:02
M dub
However, I will say the Seahawks Bears game as, as tough on the eyes as it was, there weren't a lot of mistakes.
00:27:13
M dub
There were two defenses really kind of going at it. And and I do think you kind of walk away saying that those are two really good defenses. I thought there were just a lot of bloopers and mistakes at the end of this Rams Cardinals game. so the ram so So there's about four minutes left and the Rams are up 13 to nine, which ends up being the final score. But the Cardinals are driving, so that they're down four, they need a touchdown. They get into a situation where they have about 40 yards to the end zone and it's third and 17. I got a question for you. Do you run a trick play at this point?
00:27:54
Tristan Amundson
um
00:27:55
M dub
Because the Cardinals did. They do kind of a double around.
00:27:57
Tristan Amundson
Yeah.
00:27:58
M dub
You know the defense is going to be soft. You're in four down territory. You don't need you don't need all the yards.
00:28:02
Tristan Amundson
I guess, yeah. It's a cool it's a cool decision, yeah, yeah.
00:28:06
M dub
you You know that you can get about 10 of those yards pretty much. They're pretty much handing it to you. They run a trick play.
00:28:17
M dub
They get a couple yards out of it. Now it's in like fourth and 10. And they're actually maybe now they get to about the 40. OK, it's fourth and 10. Pass down the field.
00:28:29
M dub
Rams pick it off. But now the Rams get the ball at like the 10. If the Rams defender just let's slaps the ball on the ground, the Rams get 30 yards out of it.
00:28:40
Tristan Amundson
Better. Yeah.
00:28:43
M dub
Now the Rams are almost backed up into the end zone instead of getting the ball near midfield. So that happens. Then a few minutes later, we get we get this play. It's about one minute left.
00:28:54
M dub
The score is still the same. The Cardinals still need a touchdown to win. And Kyle Murray, Trey McBride hasn't scored a touchdown all year, which is really crazy because he's very high in the league in receptions.
00:29:04
Tristan Amundson
Insane. He's great. Yeah.
00:29:08
M dub
And if you didn't watch it, Kyle and Murray fires a pass. The ball bonks off of Trey McBride's helmet and pops straight in the air. Now, if you're a conspiracy theorist who says that the NFL wants to generate great match-ups, I do think there's a case that Akela Witherspoon of the Rams traps this rebounding ball on the ground.
00:29:30
M dub
They do call it an interception, but it is very close that he he almost, he almost it's it's in a gray area where the call really could have feasibly gone either way.
00:29:34
Tristan Amundson
his clothes.
00:29:42
M dub
Very close to trapping the ball on the ground. Now, I was astonished to hear And I'm no expert on the quarterback position. I was hearing a lot of criticism of Kyler Murray on that play. I was hearing people say that he threw the ball too fast.
00:29:57
Tristan Amundson
I don't know about that. Yeah. I,
00:29:58
M dub
That's what I heard. He threw the ball too fast. it's just It didn't feel good to see. You don't want to see a ball bonking off of a helmet
Controversies and Rivalries in the NFL
00:30:08
M dub
at any point in time.
00:30:08
Tristan Amundson
yeah
00:30:09
M dub
And I don't.
00:30:09
Tristan Amundson
you Yeah. i Listen, I'll say this.
00:30:15
Tristan Amundson
ah but I don't know the position well enough to comment either. I'll say this though. Last week, that absolute bullet that Gino threw to um ah to Barnard.
00:30:24
M dub
Barners.
00:30:25
Tristan Amundson
Thank you. I mean, that's the fastest thing I've ever seen. in leather fly.
00:30:31
M dub
A lot of mustard on that one.
00:30:32
Tristan Amundson
I mean, it's just crazy amount of mustard. um I think the expectation is these guys are beyond elite athletes. tra I think Trey would say, no, I i didn't turn my head around fast enough.
00:30:44
Tristan Amundson
like it's that's ah It's on me. Who knows? is it's It's a timing thing between two great athletes. It didn't work out. I do want to say for the record, as this is being recorded, um i I did think it was an interception. I i don't think i don't think the the ground assisted in that interception. i i i I've seen too many interceptions like that for the Seahawks over the years where it was my team getting it. I i was able to watch that with just enough um perspective to say, yeah, I feel pretty comfortable. like it It is what it is.
00:31:17
M dub
I think you're right, but I've heard some conspiracy theories out there about how the NFL wants to control the schedule, control primetime matchups, and that was a ah big moment where the NFL could have leaned into the conspiracy, called it an incomplete pass, and tried to set up a Ram Seahawks game that really means a lot.
00:31:34
M dub
so
00:31:35
Tristan Amundson
That would have been nice. Yeah, I mean, I would have loved it if the NFL stepped up and did the right thing and and gave the Seahawks the game somehow. But um yeah, it was an honorable call.
00:31:43
M dub
It was an honorable call is what I'm trying to say. In in a gray area, a close play, yeah.
00:31:48
Tristan Amundson
Yeah, I see what you're saying. I see what you're saying. Yeah. Um, it was a heartbreak, man. I mean, I was watching that ah sitting in my car. We, uh, the family and I had just gotten done with the, um, the wild or the safari park down in San Diego. And my daughter was getting ready in the back seat so we couldn't leave yet. So we're safely in park with the parking brake on. I had my phone in front of me. I'm watching the play and.
00:32:16
Tristan Amundson
that hope, man. I'll just keep going back to that word, that hope. It was just festering in my heart. I was so excited. These Cardinals are going to do it. They have been such a problem for the Rams this year. They blew the Rams out earlier in the year. They're about to do it again. They're going to take two games from from the Rams and and they didn't do it. Now, here's my next question for you. um Well, I should say, but anything else on this game before we move on?
00:32:45
M dub
I do, I do have it.
00:32:46
Tristan Amundson
Okay, okay, okay.
00:32:47
M dub
What a tough situation to be watching that game and to be polling for those boys in red. Didn't it feel unnatural? I felt I felt very frustrated by the helmets.
00:32:59
M dub
To me, the Cardinal feels kind of off center somehow on that white helmet. um The proportions of the Cardinals helmet feel a little bit off to me.
00:33:10
M dub
It was a frustrating experience and Could have beaten the Giants in October. What can you do?
00:33:16
Tristan Amundson
Yeah, no, absolutely could have. um You know, I don't mind rooting for the Cardinals. And I think it's and now this is going to offend the tens of thousands of of Arizona Cardinal fans that listen to this podcast every week. um But and they've always felt like a little brother kind of team to me where I've like I don't really think of them as a rival. They're just kind of like they win some games, they lose most games.
00:33:42
Tristan Amundson
they've like they've they've done a couple of good things but like i don't i don't think i don't circle them on the calendar of like oh those cardinals we gotta beat him again like they they just they've had some success but mostly we've won and i i don't know i i think. My my my fan hatred of the rams and the niners is.
00:34:04
Tristan Amundson
yeah so much bigger that like I have no problem rooting for that. It felt very natural, actually. I was like, yeah, it's fine. I'll root for a little brother. Maybe he can get do something do something right but right for once in his life.
00:34:19
M dub
It is crazy. No team has skated through NFL history well ah while completely avoiding any of its historic moments.
00:34:29
M dub
I mean, this is a franchise that has been around for 100 years. They've been in three different cities, so it feels very fragmented. Chicago to St. Louis to Phoenix. And, uh, that has been around for 100 years.
00:34:41
M dub
And it's hard to say who the best, uh, the best card. Well, i Larry Fitzgerald, but you know, it's, it's um,
00:34:47
Tristan Amundson
That's it, yeah.
00:34:49
M dub
it's It's almost improbable how little has happened for the Cardinals in 100 years. It doesn't seem possible, actually, mathematically possible.
Seahawks' Future and Draft Strategies
00:34:59
Tristan Amundson
It's really funny.
00:35:01
Tristan Amundson
OK, here's my hope for next. Can I give you my hope for next week? Is that OK? Or should we any other any other bow wrapping that needs to be done?
00:35:08
M dub
I'm ready for next week, and I've i've got a big philosophical soap box to stand on. What do they stand on?
00:35:17
Tristan Amundson
Okay, ah yeah, soapbox, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:35:19
M dub
Okay, sorry. the so i Sorry, suddenly saying soapbox felt totally crazy, but that is...
00:35:25
Tristan Amundson
That's it they the only way that they could transport soap. Actually, it's still the only way that one can transport a large amount of soap is in a box. There's no other way to do it because the darn little things are slippery and they're small. And if you try to hold them, if you just try to put a bunch of soap in your arms, it goes flying everywhere. So yeah, you have to put it in a soapbox.
00:35:46
Tristan Amundson
um Here's my hope for next week. My hope is that two young coaches, right? Two young coaches in their 30s out coach each other from a young coach perspective. So here's what I'd love to see. I would love to see Sean McVeigh go into this game versus the Seahawks with the thought of, I'm gonna give my team a bye week right now. I'm going to do everything I can to start you know start the rookies whatever it is i don't care like all the young guys are going to play the old guys are going to play i'm gonna take advantage of of a by week for the rams if i'm shot mcveigh i think that's actually a pretty good. Strategy i wanna see mike mcdonald do the exact same strategy and say hey.
00:36:33
Tristan Amundson
seasons over, I'm going to get myself the best draft pick possible. And I want to see both of these young coaches just throw out all kind of traditional ways of playing football and be like, this wins worthless to both of us. So like, we're just going to go for it. Like we're going to have fun. We're going to do whatever we want.
00:36:51
Tristan Amundson
In the back of Mike's brain, he's thinking, hey, I might get a slightly better draft pick. Maybe instead of the 19th pick, I can get like the 16th pick. Sean is thinking, I want to get Kyreen Williams and all these guys as um you know as healthy as possible. And I just want to see a battle for who can be a worse team to end the year. So that's that's my my new year's hope for ah for this game coming up. What do you think?
00:37:16
M dub
Oh, no. Oh, no. We're Tristan, we're normally on the same page with stuff ah independently. We come to the podcast and we discover more times than not that we we have very complimentary thoughts to one another. I am actually way on the opposite side of this. So if I could dump all the soap out of my box and stand on it here, there are ah one of the big stories in the last few weeks around the league.
00:37:46
M dub
There's been a lot of criticism, especially of the Raiders and the Giants, for winning these late season games and getting a worse draft pick. I really do think that we, as an NFL world, have outsmarted ourselves with this draft pick, with with with losing to get a better draft pick. So, right now, there are 15 teams in the NFL with a winning record.
00:38:18
M dub
And what I wanted to look up, and I looked this up without knowing the answer ahead of time. I did the research. I want to know how many of them are led by a quarterback that they drafted with a top five pick?
00:38:32
M dub
Because that's what we're talking about. We're talking about those quarterbacks at the very top of the draft.
00:38:33
Tristan Amundson
Yeah. Yep.
00:38:36
M dub
Oh, it's terrible. The Raiders moved from one to four in the draft order. you know And I understand the consensus this year is we've got Cam Ward and Shador Sanders are going to be one and two.
00:38:47
M dub
And there's not really a lot of quarterbacks behind them. So it's important to be positioned one or two theoretically. But how many of those 15 winning teams have a quarterback with ah that they were drafted with their own top five pick?
00:39:02
M dub
Do you want to say a stab at it?
00:39:03
Tristan Amundson
Oh no, I don't. I have no idea.
00:39:04
M dub
The answer is two.
00:39:06
Tristan Amundson
Whoa.
00:39:07
M dub
So it's CJ Stroud in Houston, who is probably the 15th most skilled of these 15 winning teams, and Jaden Daniels in Washington. Now, you might also say, this is my straw man, the straw man talking to me as I got into the stats here. Oh, we've got Justin Herbert at number six, and Josh Allen number seven, Patrick Mahomes number 10. Those are really high draft picks. And I would say to that straw man, no, that's my point.
00:39:34
M dub
that those teams fell down and a little bit in the draft order to a suboptimal pick and got a franchise quarterback in those spots. i really oh So I was thinking about, we've we've just gone through the cycle with Caleb Williams and the Bears, the the opponent we just faced.
00:39:51
Tristan Amundson
Yep.
00:39:51
M dub
the and And I know that the Bears didn't control their own pick. they They owned the Panthers pick going to last year. But I'm very confident that at this time last year, we had this same conversation between the Panthers, ah the commanders who eventually picked number two, the Patriots number three. I really do think if you're one of those rebuilding teams and you're at the end of the year, look, look, I know that that draft is going to be four months away, but nine months away in September, your left guard is probably going to be the same left guard that you had or your right guard or or your right tackle or whoever it is.
00:40:25
M dub
do you want that to be a guy who just ended last year giving up seven eight pressures in a game and now he's trying to protect no you want that you want that left guard that right guard to be to be a ah really good player who doesn't give up pressures and I really I think there is more, I think there's more value to winning games, even if you're lower in the totem pole than we're giving credit for. those are Those are NFL players who are giving a lot for it. I think it would be really valuable for the Seahawks to so really, and I do think this would be the only, I think it's fortunate that the Seahawks are playing the Rams. I think this would be the only team, excuse me,
00:41:06
M dub
in the entire league that you could really like get up for in in this game after being eliminated, the division leader. I think it'd be very hard to be that motivated with with literally any other team in the league. I think there's a valuable message, especially I do think the Rams will arrest their starters. I think it'd be very valuable to really blow out this game and say, all right, Rams, you got into the playoffs.
00:41:31
M dub
We were both 10 and 7. You had to get down deep into the mathematics of of the tiebreakers and the strength of schedule to determine that you got into the playoffs fine.
00:41:37
Tristan Amundson
Yep.
00:41:42
M dub
We're ending this year with a with a decisive statement and saying, good good luck losing in the first round of the playoffs. um we were We were an inch away from one another.
00:41:53
M dub
That's how I feel. That's how I'd rather have that than 19 versus 16 or or you know however it ah shakes out in the draft order. Have I convinced you one iota?
00:42:03
Tristan Amundson
Listen, you are putting a premium on the metaphysical over the physical, right? You're saying, you're saying, hey, there there there is a there's a premium to um ah the mentality, to to the
00:42:11
M dub
Yes.
00:42:20
Tristan Amundson
dare I say the vibe of the team, the the internal perception of how a team feels and and how they think about themselves over, hey, you know, we're going to get this guy over that guy. um I have no problem agreeing with you. I i say, i my my statement's a bit tongue in cheek, the idea of let's Let's just see. My statement is kind of more along the lines of we have two very young head coaches. And I think it'd be really funny to see them just throw out the old school, you know, kind of traditional football mantra of like, no, every game's important. Like we're trying to build a team here and for them both just to go for stats and be like, yeah, no, we just want to where we're mathematically we're going to have two plus two equals three. So therefore I need to get the better draft pick.
00:43:09
Tristan Amundson
I kind of, there's part of me that just the comedy of that. Um, but I agree with you. Um, listen, yeah and and maybe you'll remember this and I hate to put you on the spot. What was, we've talked about a couple of times, so I bet you will. What was the number, what what was the line or the number of how many games the Seahawks team was going to win going into the season? Cause I remember you thought that it was low and you went over it.
00:43:34
M dub
um It was 27 punts between the Chargers and Raiders back in.
00:43:38
Tristan Amundson
And our dad, this guy's listen, this guy is deep into the punting game.
00:43:45
M dub
I do believe the over under was 7.5 and in the preseason, is is some of this selfish because I was pretty locked into predicting the Seahawks would be a 10 win team.
00:43:47
Tristan Amundson
Seven.
00:43:56
M dub
I didn't make a playoff prediction.
00:43:59
Tristan Amundson
Yeah.
00:43:59
M dub
Yeah, I would feel ah gratified it if that came true on these last last days of the year.
00:44:05
Tristan Amundson
Well, and
00:44:05
M dub
Seahawks are way over the over um as as far as Vegas is concerned.
00:44:10
Tristan Amundson
So already have overachieved and, and listen, yeah, absolutely.
00:44:13
M dub
Already a winning team, locked into a winning year.
00:44:15
Tristan Amundson
And listen to your point 10 and seven. I mean, if, if we started, if the first podcast of this year, right back in, let's call it back in August, when we are still doing preseason games, if you said to me, Hey Tristan, right now I can guarantee you.
00:44:32
Tristan Amundson
a 10 and seven year, will you take it? I think I would have said, yeah, I'll take it right now. Give give it to me. Give me a 10 and seven year. that That puts us right in the playoff conversation. we can you know that That absolutely could be a playoff team. And obviously that's going to work out for the Rams, either 11 and six or 10 and seven. we'll We'll see what ends up happening. So it gets you right into that neighborhood. um It's so hard to do as a fan, right? It's so hard to do as someone who really enjoys this team.
00:45:01
Tristan Amundson
to take a step back and to say, a first year, first time head coach, brand new staff, a lot of young new players, It's a pretty good start. Like if, it so, so I'll, I'll, I'll double down with what you're saying. If we can finish this as a 10 win season, his Mike's first year in the NFL, he gets, he gets 10 wins for the team. And we all look at it and say, man, this really should have been, let's call it an 11 win season, which I think we all agree it, it could have and should have been. Um,
00:45:37
Tristan Amundson
Dude, that's not bad. and that's That's pretty doggone good. and And if you look at the rest of the league, again, if we take the macro look at it, if you look at the woes of Cleveland, if you look at the woes of Chicago, if you look at the woes of Jacksonville, if you, I mean, yeah I can keep going.
00:45:58
Tristan Amundson
We can talk about Tennessee.
00:45:58
M dub
you can There's 15 teams who would love to have the problems to see how it's at right now.
00:46:04
Tristan Amundson
and Well, and I should say not not only the problems we have right now, but the problems we've had for a long time, right? I mean, like all of these teams have been bad for for a while. You know, I mean, listen, we could talk about the Jets. Now, the Jets had a couple of good years in there um because that defense was so dominant. But obviously, they're they're back down into the basement.
00:46:23
Tristan Amundson
um yeah yeah Again, if you just if we take a step back and we say, this is a team that's clearly going in the right direction, it clearly has the right kind of leadership.
Coaching Dynamics and Strategic Moves
00:46:35
Tristan Amundson
And and I think these matchups are going to be fun. So so let me double down. Like, can I can I completely do a 180 on my take?
00:46:43
M dub
Well, what's funny is, i i yes, you can. And i do think the game I do think it is more likely that the game will transpire as you have discussed with all the backups in there.
00:46:52
Tristan Amundson
I think
00:46:54
M dub
I do think that is more likely. But I just wanted to get on that box. Thank you for letting me get on that soapbox. But but yes, what what are you thinking now?
00:47:01
Tristan Amundson
And I think this is one where where both things can kind of be true. ah the the The real matchup for the next decade, I hope, and i I say this truthfully as someone who enjoys football and enjoys this rivalry, the true matchup is big picture, macro. It's McDonald McVey. It's this guy who's one of the great offensive minds in the league versus this guy who's one of the great defensive minds of the league. So so here's my here's my new year's wish.
00:47:32
Tristan Amundson
let's have but Let's have a ah cool strategic game. let's Let's watch these guys play chess and go back and forth with with some cool plays, some great defensive stops, some some ah interesting offensive maneuvers that McVeigh puts together. and And let's just watch the dynamic because this should be the beginning of, this should be the second game of a long-standing chess match between two great um ah offensive and defensive minds. So that's that's the Christmas wish for me. as We're talking to the people here. It's the 31st of December. the the the the The year is almost done. The year has, on the West Coast, what, 14 hours left of life, I believe, before before it's over.
00:48:21
Tristan Amundson
I hope that this is that that this is just chapter two in a super long book of McVeigh and McDonald going at it and just having fun offense versus defense. so that's That's how I hope this game turns out. And I hope that we have a lot of these matchups because as much as I hate the Rams, Sean McVeigh is a freaking great coach. He's really fun to watch.
New Year's Hopes for the Seahawks
00:48:45
Tristan Amundson
um And he listened, this Rams team, they've they've also done it. They've also put themselves in a good position. So it's a great rivalry and it's a really fun matchup.
00:48:55
M dub
I think you're right. I think that's why I don't want to see the Hawks just give it up because yes, there there are there are many, many chapters to go. And I know the national conversation hasn't been fair or has been very critical of him in the last few months.
00:49:09
M dub
But I'm not forgetting about Shanahan either. I mean, these are three coaches who who could really have some staying power and
00:49:12
Tristan Amundson
Absolutely. Yeah.
00:49:19
M dub
I do like the fact that the Hawks are kind of are kind of you know against the grain with hiring the defensive guy to to really challenge two two of the greatest offensive minds really in NFL history.
00:49:31
Tristan Amundson
Absolutely. Now it's going to be a fun game. we'll We'll watch it. We'll enjoy it. um Last game of the season coming up. Miles, have an awesome New Year's Eve. I mean, it's it's New Year's Eve. Have a great end of this year. I'll talk to you in 2025. We'll see if the Seahawks can get this win.
00:49:52
M dub
Tristan, I look forward to it. And the one last thing I would say to you at the end of the year, I would say, go Hawks.
00:49:55
Tristan Amundson
Oh, okay. One more thing. Go Hawks.