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Ep 35: Growing Your Personal Brand and Legal Network on LinkedIn: Brittany Leonard, GC at Civix
78 Plays9 months ago
How do you build a personal brand on LinkedIn that strengthens your ties to the legal community, grows your network, and even helps other lawyers? And how do you convert that brand into a successful and rewarding consulting business with an impressive client base?
Brittany Leonard, General Counsel at Civix, started her journey to LinkedIn legal community influencer at the beginning of the pandemic, and went from a single post with minor engagement to an in-house advice powerhouse with more than 26,000 followers. Now she runs a successful consulting business where she trains GCs and businesses to understand the power of a personal brand to get new clients and grow revenue.
Hear Brittany as she shares tips for growing your own presence on LinkedIn, starting a consulting business, breaking out of the networking-event malaise, dealing with abusive workplaces, and more.
Read detailed summary: https://www.spotdraft.com/podcast/episode-35
Topics:
Introduction: 0:00
Starting your career in local government before entering law school: 2:24
Finding a path to your first general counsel role: 3:54
Approaching the GC role with a business mindset: 10:03
Rebuilding your confidence after working under an abusive boss: 11:43
Building a personal brand on LinkedIn: 16:34
Advice to lawyers who have never posted on LinkedIn before: 19:39
Launching a consulting business on the back of your social presence: 24:54
Tips for creating your own business: 28:22
Book recommendations: 29:36
What you wish you had known as a young lawyer: 32:08
Annual Compensation Report: https://salary-report.spotdraft.com/
Connect with us:
Brittany Leonard - https://www.linkedin.com/in/brittany-leonard-b3a7b2a4/
Tyler Finn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/tylerhfinn
SpotDraft - https://www.linkedin.com/company/spotdraft
SpotDraft is a leading CLM platform that solves your end-to-end contract management issues. Visit https://www.spotdraft.com to learn more.
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Transcript
Dissatisfaction in Legal Career
00:00:00
Speaker
I spent many, many days crying in my car on the way to work, many, many days in the bathroom of whatever firm I was at, miserable crying, wanting to escape and thinking like, what else is out there? And now compared to back then, there are so many ways and so many avenues.
Streamlining Contract Processes
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Speaker
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00:00:53
Speaker
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Building a Legal Brand on LinkedIn
00:01:21
Speaker
How do you build a personal brand in the legal LinkedIn sphere? How can it help you in your day job? How about as you start to launch a side hustle consulting business? Today we have Brittany Leonard, General Counsel at Civics, and I think as many of you have seen a LinkedIn legal community influencer on the abstract. Brittany, thanks so much for joining us today. Thank you for having me. I'm really excited to be here.
00:01:46
Speaker
You've been traveling a lot recently, including some cool in-person visits to consulting clients. Can you tell us about some of the fun places that you've been? Yeah. I mean, there's so many. So I've been to, uh, Boston. I've been to Kancun was vacation. So I can't, can't count that one. Um, down in Miami, obviously, um, I go between Orlando and Miami. So both of those, um, and then some in Texas as well. It's been really fun.
00:02:13
Speaker
Well, I'm going to ask you a bunch of questions later on about your consulting business and how you're building up a client roster using your presence on LinkedIn.
Career Journey and Passions
00:02:23
Speaker
But I want to go back a little ways and you actually had a pretty strong, solid career before you became a lawyer. Tell us a little bit about that and what motivated you to decide to go to law school and get into the law.
00:02:37
Speaker
So I was working for the local city where I lived and I just really love the business aspect of it. I was growing up, I played national tennis as well. So it was kind of a combination of business and getting to work in the tennis field as well.
00:02:55
Speaker
And it was just really exciting to work on the finances of the business, the marketing aspects, the operations, all those sort of things. And that's where I really thrived. And I knew in the back of my head, I was always kind of like said to myself and like told since I was growing up, like, you're going to go to law school.
00:03:16
Speaker
And I even did like the law of magnet. So it was kind of like destined to be, if you will. But in the back of my mind, I knew how much I love business. So I knew eventually that would play a role in my life somehow. I did not know that you were a big tennis player. I love tennis. You're going to have to bring your racket to clock. And we can find a tennis court near the Aria and hit some balls together. I don't think I picked up a racket in the last 12 years.
00:03:44
Speaker
You know what? There's always a second chance in life, shall I say. It'll come back. It'll come back quick, I'm sure.
Seeking a Different Path in Law
00:03:53
Speaker
After law school, I understand you tried more traditional lawyering, and you didn't like it very much, actually. Tell us about how you maybe fell into your first in-house role and how that eventually led to a GC role.
00:04:12
Speaker
Yeah. So I mean, going even back a step further, I hated law school, like, I remember thinking, like, what is this? You know what? Why am I here? Like, it's not practical. I'm learning about these 1800 cases. But I stuck it out because, you know, I'm not the type to start something and quit. I'm like, I'm here, I'm doing it. Regardless of what happens, at least I'll have a license to fall back on.
00:04:37
Speaker
So I finished that up and then I got back, you know, I got out and I was like, okay, finally, like in the real world. Yay. Like we're going to do this. And I remember sitting at my desk like probably a year and a half and being like, is this it?
00:04:53
Speaker
This is miserable. What is this? And I don't know what it was other than I just felt like I was a minion in the sea of people where you were dished out in assignment and it was like, get this done. And you didn't know anything about the case. You didn't know anything about the history, the future. You were just told, here's the assignment, get it done and bill for the hours. And I was just like, this is not where I want my life to be in the next 20, 30 years.
00:05:23
Speaker
And if any indication was a better indication than the partners that walked by that were 15, 20 years in, looking miserable and as unhealthy as possible, I was like, no, this is not like I used too much regular cream to be looking like this in 20 years.
00:05:40
Speaker
How did how did you eventually work towards towards a GC role?
Transition to In-House Counsel
00:05:44
Speaker
Because I understand, you know, you almost tried to move a little bit away from the law when you were in house and was a CEO, maybe who talked you into sort of coming back to it.
00:05:56
Speaker
Yeah. So when I left, um, being quote unquote in the law firm environment, I remember telling everyone, I was like, I will be a barista Starbucks, which by the way, I love Starbucks. So no Starbucks. I'm just saying, I was like, I will do anything. I cannot stand being a lawyer.
00:06:13
Speaker
And I started applying to these really interesting roles. I was just like, marketing roles, this one, I cannot remember the name of it. It's up in New York. It's like very elite club for very high rolling players. Like kind of like the receptionist type of thing. I was like, I will do something just exciting. Like I wanted to be excited to go to work. And I was like, I'm not excited. I'm disrespected. I'm not valued. I'm not supported. Like let's do something, switch it up, do something fun.
00:06:40
Speaker
And I ended up applying to a marketing role. And I distinctly remember it was October 31st of, oh God, this is gonna date me. But it was basically Halloween. And the very next day I get a call from the CEO saying like, is this a joke? And I'm like, first of all, I don't even remember applying. It was like two in the morning. But I was like, what do you mean? Is this a joke? And he's like,
00:07:04
Speaker
you applied in my marketing role, but your entire resume is legal. And I remember saying, yeah, I'm one out. Like I'm miserable. And he kind of like cocked his head back. Like obviously we're on the phone and back then we had video calls, but I could hear him like laughing being like, you're really going to give up all this. Like your grades are phenomenal. You're first in your class, whatever. And I was like, no, like I'm, I'm done. And he's like, all right, I will give you the marketing role because I had
00:07:30
Speaker
I had no degree in business, but I also did a lot of marketing. And right after law school, while I was waiting for the bar exam results, I actually worked for a social media management company for a couple months while I was waiting for my bar results. So I knew how to do it. And he's like, I will give you this role if you help my in-house team. And I remember thinking like,
00:07:50
Speaker
In the back of my mind, I knew I wanted to go in-house like in law school, but I was always told, you know, you will not get an in-house role. You have to have 20 years of experience, yada, yada, yada. And that's like your retirement job. And I remember thinking like, and I was so burnt out that I was like, this is not what I want to do. But I remember saying to him,
00:08:10
Speaker
Listen, I'll take the marketing role. And if I want to help every once in a while, I'll let you know. I was very strong willed at that point. Like, I think that's when my coming out coming out of my shell a few little started happening back then. I was just I'm not going to be stuck in this box and be disrespected and devalued anymore. Like, there's more to me than being a lawyer.
00:08:31
Speaker
So he was like, okay, that's fine. Like I can accept that. So I started doing the marketing role and it quickly turned in. If there was any, what is it called? Poresight, I guess there's a force, the misery that I had for my first couple of years out of law school was even though I was miserable, I tried to make the best of it. And how did I do that? By basically getting experience in a bunch of different areas, whether it was IP,
00:08:55
Speaker
data privacy, employment, all kinds of M&A, just so that I could say I worked on different areas. And if it was a new project, I try to hop on to it, that sort of thing. So I quickly realized that when I got into the marketing role, his in-house team needed a lot of help. The lawyers had varying degrees of experience, but they were really focused on real estate, perhaps, like one specific area.
00:09:23
Speaker
where I had the IP knowledge, I had the data privacy, employment, obviously, to help HR, those sort of things that were needed. So I quickly jumped in. And it was more so like, they were really nice. And I was just like, Oh, like, let me help you like, let me like,
00:09:39
Speaker
but in a quicker way. And then that's when I quickly realized that being in-house was very different from being at a firm. And for me, being really entwined with, and that's not the right word, but like entwined with a business and being a business partner and being valued and supported beyond just a legal capacity. I was like, okay, this is,
00:10:01
Speaker
this is what I want.
Proactive Legal Partnership
00:10:03
Speaker
Yeah, let's talk a little more about that. As I look at some of the things you've posted on LinkedIn and some of the stories that you've told, I think that as a GC, you try to really understand the business, understand what's driving the business, and be very responsive to what you see as the needs of the business being. Can you talk us through how you try to bring that mindset to your day-to-day work, how you try to be very
00:10:29
Speaker
in touch with maybe other stakeholders across the business that you're working with? Some lawyers would say, hey, you're a lawyer, stick to the legal stuff and that's it. I think you're doing a disservice for yourself, especially in-house, even as a law firm attorney. If you don't know the business of your client and you're working as outside counsel, you're doing a disservice because they're going to get frustrated, they're going to get
00:10:52
Speaker
They don't know what you're doing and they're just going to go on to the next outside counsel firm. I really try to be valued as a partner. What does that mean? I want to hop on calls where there's demos. I want to hop on internal meetings where they're looking at upgrading a new product or adding a new feature.
00:11:11
Speaker
Even if I'm not saying anything, just being in that sphere of, hey, I know what's going on in case something does happen. For me, it's about being proactive rather than reactive. And being seen as someone that they can come to and trust is so valuable because I cannot tell you the amount of times I was able to save something because they're like, hey, let's
00:11:35
Speaker
it's illegal real quick before it explodes versus like, oh, we're, you know, terrified of legal. We're not going to them type of thing. Yeah. You talk about being valued, having that sort of trust with, with the folks that you're working with.
Overcoming Early Career Challenges
00:11:49
Speaker
Um, I want to ask you about a story that, that you told on LinkedIn where you had early in your career as a lawyer, you know, you had a pretty abusive boss, um,
00:11:58
Speaker
Um, and I think that resonated with, with a lot of people and how, how you, you know, worked through that. Now you've been a two time GC. I think you have a lot of confidence now in your role and what you bring to the table. Can you tell us that story and also sort of how you were able to work through it and build your confidence back up in, in future roles?
00:12:19
Speaker
So I think in that point with having that sort of boss and being so young, you absorb that information. Like you really, truly believe when someone tells you that you're not going to make it in this career, that you're not good enough, that, you know, if you don't do certain things that you know are not legal, that they're going to report you to the bar, like threatening your license, those sort of things, like,
00:12:47
Speaker
working for someone like that, you, there's like a twofold, like you want to get out as quickly as possible. But at the same time, you know, like you have bills to pay, you have things to do that sort of thing. And so it's like making, I said this a couple minutes ago, making the best of the situation, and really honing in on the fact that like,
00:13:07
Speaker
Even though it's not the place that you are going to be forever, while you're here, learn as much as you can. Even if it's learning how not to run a business, do that. Even if it's learning how not to be that type of person, do that because it's not healthy and it's not good. I will tell you, get it out as quick as possible, but I know that's not always the easiest thing to do.
00:13:32
Speaker
So, making sure that you understand that it is nothing to do with you and everything to do with that person's internalness and internal dark, I hate to say dark soul because that sounds so woohoo, but like, you know, their own issues and they're projecting on you.
00:13:52
Speaker
The more you can realize that and step out of that and say, I know I know what I'm doing. I know I'm good. And keep learning, keep growing, go to conferences, talk to other people, just making sure that you keep, and I hate to say a positive mindset, because it's hard to, especially in that type of environment.
00:14:10
Speaker
But I promise you, the more you do so, and when you get out, you'll look back on that and you'll be like, that was a shit time in my career. But I'm happy for it because I now know what I will never accept again. Can you talk about maybe some of the mentors that you found after that who either helped get you through that period of time or, you know, as you found new bosses or CEO that you worked for or talk about sort of how they helped build your confidence
00:14:54
Speaker
PTSD moment of like, we work for this miserable person. And like, we can all like share stories and like talk about it. And it's very, like, almost like a, we like, I don't even know how to explain it. It's like a time to get together. Just like we chat, you know, we're always there for each other.
00:15:01
Speaker
back up.
00:15:12
Speaker
And I think when you go through something like that, you're like, okay, I'm not alone in this. And I think that's a really valuable, you know, key thing to learn. And for me, like the confidence was always kind of there. It just wasn't able to blossom, if you will, in that type of environment. Like I was not thriving. I was doing what I had to do to survive, if you will. But if I look back on it,
00:15:38
Speaker
And I know we kind of talked about this a little bit like that same individual that made my time so upsetting and so miserable. It's been many years now. I just received an email a few, a few weeks ago basically saying like,
00:15:55
Speaker
Like you were the one that essentially ran the business. You were the one that essentially I relied on. And even though you don't think I listened to you, like you were my quote unquote guiding light into making the business thrive. And that doesn't tell you how well I did despite all those obstacles.
00:16:14
Speaker
I mean, it's just a testament of, and he even said, like, you are a true warrior, true warrior for every obstacle you've ever come. And there's a lot of things that I haven't talked about publicly or anything like that. And it is a testament to staying driven despite what you go through.
00:16:33
Speaker
Right. That's just one of your LinkedIn posts that I think has gotten a lot of traction from folks who, you know, are looking for someone to guide them through, you know, what isn't an easy job, right? Being a general counsel of a company a lot is on your plate and you often have to serve as sort of the shield for the business. When you started posting these stories, did you think like, I want to build a personal brand for myself?
Personal Branding During the Pandemic
00:17:02
Speaker
How did you get going? How did you build this personal brand up? So I was finally like, and it was during the pandemic, I was finally happy in my career, right? Yeah. But I hated networking events. I felt so awkward. But I was so, so like, I hate to say young, but compared to someone that has been, typically they say, as a GC, that's your retirement job, right? Well, I was able to essentially become the youngest GC in Florida
00:17:30
Speaker
I first started so I would go to these events and I would be either like sitting on the sideline or like they don't want to talk to me like I don't have anything valuable to add and I was like but I know I'm like super smart and I know I've like gone through a lot like I feel like for someone who is quote-unquote like younger which I got on not anymore but back then like I've gone through like 20 years of experience at that point like I had a lot of knowledge and
00:18:00
Speaker
I was like, I want to share this, but these networking events just are not it. They are not it. I'm like, how can I do this and how can I help others? The person I wanted help for me back then that I didn't have, how can I be that for somebody else? That's all. I'm trying to phrase that. How can I be what I wanted back then? I found LinkedIn.
00:18:27
Speaker
And honestly, I have to think back to that time when I started, but I was terrified of posting. I was terrified of saying anything because they're going to be like, oh, this girl has no idea what she's talking about. Get the hell out of this platform. So I would just start liking things that I enjoyed seeing that either helped me in my day-to-day job or just was motivating. And then eventually, I was like, you know what? This is a place where I can start saying the things that I've been wanting to say,
00:18:56
Speaker
how to better our industry, how to motivate people, how to cultivate confidence that I started growing because of the healthiness and happiness in my job. And so that's what I basically did is I started posting to help others.
00:19:12
Speaker
And back then, there was no brand building to this. There was no like, oh, you have followers, you have metrics, like none of that. It was literally, especially during the pandemic, it was like, I think 10 of us maybe, that were like, let's like, you know, help others, like let's help each other, like let's have chats, like we would have calls like the 10 of us would. And it was literally just wanting to help other people had nothing to do with quote unquote, building a brand.
00:19:39
Speaker
Now that you've successfully built a brand, maybe a little bit by accident. I think there are other folks out there who see the potential benefit, especially like maybe they're searching for another job or we're going to talk about this in a second. They want to offer consulting services.
LinkedIn Engagement Tips
00:20:00
Speaker
Do you have advice for folks who maybe have never posted on LinkedIn before or have only written an op-ed or two in their career
00:20:08
Speaker
and they want to get started and they want to begin to build a social media presence for themselves, what should they do first? How should they get going? Start messy. I always say this, discomfort is temporary, growth is permanent.
00:20:24
Speaker
you're never going to feel like like I always get this question like I need a lot of my coaching clients will be like I need you know help on these first couple posts and I'm like let me just caveat this with your posts like your first 10 20 posts are not gonna get 30 40 likes like you're gonna be lucky if you have five like I remember getting like three on my first post being like I am cool now like I think that's one of the hugest things is
00:20:54
Speaker
just realizing that it's not going to be easy and you're going to be like, this is terrifying. My coworkers are going to judge me. I don't have anything valuable to add. Like why would they care to listen to me and just start posting about things that you've been through, things that you feel like need to be said and just be consistent. I think that's the biggest key. And I don't know why I was consistent other than the fact that I enjoyed it. And that's how I started,
00:21:20
Speaker
being able to meet other people. And over time, like if you want to talk about confidence, my confidence grew to this where it is now because of my consistency on the platform, continuously meeting people like, I mean, I have friends in Australia now, I would have never met anyone in Australia at an in person event. And like now
00:21:40
Speaker
these in-person events are easy for me. And I love them because all the people that I get to connect with online, I've now built relationships with. So when I go to these in-person events, it's like, oh my God, like I'm sort of got like when you and I meet at clock, I'm going to run up to and hug you because I feel like it's just, you get this like sense of like camaraderie that you see.
00:22:05
Speaker
Yeah, community. I say this all the time and people laugh when I say this, but you cannot get that from sharing a cheese plate at an awkward event that you don't know the person, and you're sitting there asking them what their job and title is, and you're like, I'm so sick of telling people my title. Ask me what I like to do. Ask me what I like to eat. Ask me where I like to travel. Be fun, be human. This whole let's be stuck in a box and stuck up, I'm done with. It's overrated.
00:22:33
Speaker
I love that advice around it being messy and being consistent because if you take both of those things together, then when you have small moments of failure or when something doesn't resonate as much as you thought it would or it doesn't matter as much because it's not
00:22:51
Speaker
I'm only going to post on LinkedIn three times this year. And so if one of the three doesn't perform, it's like this big failure and I'm so nervous about it. It's okay. Well, I'm going to post five more times next week and like two of them didn't work last week. That's okay because I'm being consistent and a lot more is resonating than is failing. And it's, it's easier to pick yourself up after little losses, I guess.
00:23:15
Speaker
I'm posting this on Instagram today, but like insecurity is a real thing, you know, and especially starting out, even now, like when a post gets like 50 likes now, I'm like, what's wrong with the platform? Like, did I get a message that it's not working today? It's, you know, it's disheartening. Or if I, there's times when I can gain 2000 followers in 20 days and it's not even like blinking, then there's times when I'm stuck on a certain number for like,
00:23:44
Speaker
three weeks and I'm like like what's going on here like What am I doing? And you get these like doubts even now like you get these doubts of like, okay Like is a platform saturated? Like am I not saying the right things like and I try to keep all my contact very fresh Like I don't try to use a lot reuse a lot of the content same themes I guess you could say but when it doesn't perform like it should you're like I
00:24:10
Speaker
well damn and then you start thinking like especially this time they're like okay well it's spring break for a lot of kids like you know people are out people on vacation so you just have to like remind yourself that you're doing good and just keep going like it's just keep going
00:24:27
Speaker
I think it's, uh, I talked about this with another podcast guest, uh, who is actually is an executive recruiter.
Consulting Business Growth
00:24:34
Speaker
And this is, I mean, this is what like salespeople go through all the time. You have to, you have to be come more comfortable with some rejection by your audience or not having my own day. I'm like, I give it up to y'all like this.
00:24:54
Speaker
Let's talk about that. You've launched a consulting business. I think you've been able to sort of build it on the back of this presence that you have on social. What consulting services and coaching services are you offering? How do you want to help people? It started very organically. It was actually, it started last year at clock when a friend of mine was like, you could help others build a brand.
00:25:23
Speaker
And I remember thinking like, what are you talking about? Like build a brand. And they're like, yeah, like what you do. And I was like, Oh my God, I really could do this. And I had like these thoughts kind of in my head last December, like 2022, I guess, but I didn't know what to do, how to make of it, that sort of thing.
00:25:42
Speaker
And so very organically, people would message me asking, hey, could you coach me? I'm a new GC and I don't know how to work with the business team. I don't know how to get leadership to get my buy-in, that sort of thing. So I would do one-on-ones or I would get
00:25:59
Speaker
some of my clients, even my current clients were like, Hey, I want to start posting on LinkedIn, but I don't know how to frame something. I want to kind of flush it out with you. I want to kind of get your opinion. Like, what do you think about these ideas, that sort of thing. And so I would do a lot of these one on one coachings. And in the back end, like building up a business, like people don't tell you how difficult it is. Like I'm sitting here.
00:26:22
Speaker
building up a stand store, building up a website, building up all these things that are very crucial. Not crucial, I guess you could say to business, but obviously something that eventually down the road you want. In my head, I think this is where I messed up when I was starting to build the business. I thought everything had to be perfect.
00:26:41
Speaker
And I didn't take my own advice that I had on LinkedIn where I just start messy. And so I did a lot of that. And then finally, I ended up waiting because I was ready to announce November, December. But in my head, I'm like, this is holidays, people aren't here, like blah, blah, blah. So I talked myself out of it. I announced it in January. And that's when I kind of pivoted to stopping the one on ones as much as I love the one on ones.
00:27:07
Speaker
I think that there's more value in doing trainings for a group setting and there's workshops that like really dive into what people need, what people want. And so since that time, I guess three, four months now, I help law firms, sales companies, anybody that wants to grow their visibility on LinkedIn, grow their confidence. I come in, we do a training with a workshop and it's just really, really
00:27:35
Speaker
exciting to see people's kind of light bulbs go off and be like, oh my God, I can actually get clients and grow our revenue for the company by sitting in the comfort of my own chair, not having to go to these weird, awkward in-person events. And I can connect with so many people that need my services. But then when I actually go to these conferences, I know these people already. And I think that's the value
00:28:04
Speaker
and really wanting to build your brand in an authentic way that really hasn't been done in the past. There's so many old school ways of networking, but this new way is just exciting and fun and makes people feel comfortable because they can do it in their own way.
00:28:22
Speaker
I know it's early days. It's been a few months. Any tips or tricks for other folks who are thinking about launching their own consulting business, like early learnings that you have?
Starting a Consulting Business
00:28:34
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like I should have kept a diary. But honestly, just starting and starting with what you know in your heart and your gut, what makes you happiest. And if I think back to why I started on LinkedIn, I started because I wanted to help others.
00:28:51
Speaker
feel confident in their career and happy in their career. And so that's what I ended up like, even though I circulated a lot and did a bunch of different things, that's what I do now. And I think that's what makes me feel like I'm on the right path, if you will, seeing, you know, the light bulbs pop off, like I said, seeing that excitement. So you really have to figure out like, what do you enjoy doing? And what are you good at? Like,
00:29:18
Speaker
Two things, like I think those two things are really crucial because if you don't enjoy it, you're not going to continue it. And if you don't know about it, then how are you going to teach it? This has been great. I've got just a couple more questions for you that I like to ask a lot of my guests. I know you've been busy, but have you read any good books recently that you'd want to recommend to our listeners?
Personal Interests and Recommendations
00:29:43
Speaker
So you're gonna laugh, I don't even know where it is. And I, let me see, I can pull it up here. I'm obsessed with rom-coms, so that's not gonna be like, unless you. That's fun. I mean, listen, it is what it is. So I've read the whole series by Meghan Quinn about the Huxley brother, or I should say Huxley is one of the brothers, but the Kane brothers. So Meghan Quinn has a series one, two, and three,
00:30:12
Speaker
One, two, and three of the Kane brothers. The first one is a not so meet cute. The second one I'm on right now is so not meant to be. And then the third one that I just ordered last night, because I only have 100 pages left in the second one, it's called a long time.
00:30:28
Speaker
I'm coming. I tried to read influence because I did a post actually probably a month or two ago about like the best business books. And there was a theme, if I could find the post I'll send it to you, but there was a theme of like certain books that were the best to read. I think the top one was Adele Carnegie, how to influence friends or something. You win friends and influence people. Yeah. A classic. Yes.
00:30:53
Speaker
I read a lot of that. I just, I don't know, like I really have to like be in the mood to read that type of book. And then the other one that I did on Audible, because I go between, like I said, I go between Miami and Orlando, like I live in both places.
00:31:07
Speaker
So on my drives, I listen to the one, he's the FBI agent that have a negotiation book. Oh, yes. I've heard that his name is Chris Voss. Is that right? Yes. Yes. And I have it on Audible, so it should pop up. Right. It's like never split the difference by Chris Voss.
00:31:25
Speaker
phenomenal. Now I'm in chapter seven and there's like 10 chapters to go but like it kind of like throws you off when you do an audible because they're like you have eight hours left and you're like holy shit but no it was really good. He has really insightful tips. I bookmarked a lot like as I'm driving down they're like click, bookmark, click, click, click, click to go back to.
00:31:50
Speaker
I think he has a really good way to teach not only salespeople, but anybody trying to get buy-in. It's a way to do it that doesn't feel stuffy. It just feels natural. So I really like that book. That's great. I have one last question for you that I like to ask almost all of our guests.
Reassurance for New Lawyers
00:32:08
Speaker
If you could think back just after graduating law school, days of being a young lawyer, what's something that you know now that you wish you'd known back then?
00:32:20
Speaker
Ooh, it's all going to work out. It's all going to be okay. I spent many, many days crying in my car on the way to work, many, many days in the bathroom of whatever firm I was at, miserable crying, wanting to escape and thinking like, what else is out there?
00:32:41
Speaker
And now compared to back then, there's so many ways and so many avenues. You know, there's legal ops, which was definitely not a thing back then, you know, 10, 15 years ago. There are so many things that you can do that will make you happy that it's all a journey.
00:32:59
Speaker
I've tried to do a lot better job at this than I do, but embracing the journey and not waiting for that final destination and saying, I'll just be happy when this occurs or that occurs, but really enjoying the moment. I know how it feels to be miserable. I know what it feels like to cry and just be like, is this really my life? But I promise you every day that you're doing something,
00:33:27
Speaker
is get you one step closer to where you want to be. And you're still learning. You're still growing. So take that and just really harp on the fact that you will get to where you're supposed to be. It's all part of the process. What a fantastic way to wrap this up to conclude our conversation. Thanks so much for joining me on this episode of The Abstract, Brittany.
00:33:50
Speaker
Thank you for having me. I look forward to seeing you at clock and giving you a hug. So much fun. No, I like, I love Vegas. I'm not a big gambler, but I'm a huge, huge foodie. Um, in my favorite restaurants out there. So, um, I'm excited. It's super excited to be out there and just see. Absolutely. And, uh, to all of our listeners, thanks so much for tuning in and we hope to see you next time.
00:34:18
Speaker
If you enjoyed this episode, I'd recommend that you give my interview in season one with Lydia Chuk, GC of Away, a listen. We talk about building your personal brand externally and within your company. You can also subscribe so you get notified as soon as we post a new episode. And if you liked this one, I'd really love to hear your thoughts. So leave a rating or a comment. If you'd like to reach out to us, our LinkedIn profiles are in the description. See you all next week.