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Kate Brody lives in Los Angeles, California. Her work has previously appeared in Lit Hub, The Rumpus, Noema, and The Literary Review, among other publications. She holds an MFA from NYU.
Rabbit Hole is her debut novel. Released January 2, 2024.
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Transcript
Introduction to Podcast
00:00:01
Speaker
You are listening to something rather than nothing. Creator and host Ken Volante. Editor and producer Peter Bauer.
Project Deadline Reflections
00:00:16
Speaker
So long the process and then all of a sudden it's here and now I kind of want more time.
Introduction of Kate Brody & Upcoming Book
00:00:24
Speaker
yeah yes so uh everybody we're talking with uh kate brody and this is ken velante with something rather than nothing uh really exciting that uh kate has a book uh coming out january 2nd 2024
Emotions on Book Release
00:00:40
Speaker
called rabbit hole and uh Kate you know just kind of bumping into this right here uh we're recording and uh in December this this this episode is gonna pop out oh with the book but what's what's what's it like for you right now you know haven't put so much effort into this uh
00:01:03
Speaker
This this this wonderful book and so so what's it like now, you know, we're coming up anxiety You know waiting what's going on now for you
Book Writing Journey
00:01:15
Speaker
Yeah. Publishing is so interesting because it takes ages. So this book, I started it five years ago and I wrote the first draft in maybe a year. Then I edited it for a couple of years, but I've been kind of done, done with it for almost two years. Like I really haven't revisited it. Um, the copy's been locked for the most part. So the last week or two, I've been getting back into the book to find some excerpts for readings and things.
00:01:45
Speaker
And I'm a little estranged from it. Like it's been a while. So I'm coming back at it with with fresh eyes. And it's yeah, it's a weird thing because now I mean, it's it feels I guess to everyone else like the beginning of the book's life, but it kind of feels to me like the end. So it's a bit of a grief process, I think. I mean, I'm happy to be moving on. I have another project that I'm working on. But yeah, the way that it plays out kind of the moment it
00:02:15
Speaker
enters the public sphere, you're done with it. So it's bittersweet. Yeah. Yeah. It's such an interesting psychological piece. You know, I've talked to authors and there's always these kind of weird ideas or use of language. You know, I've had a couple episodes where
00:02:36
Speaker
uh, authors talking about a character who won't behave the right way, you know? And I, as a philosopher, it's just, uh, just a mind blowing, you know, the entity unto itself, the, the thing that you created unto itself. And it sounds like you feel you kind of lose control of it now. Like it's, it's, it's, it's, it's going to be out there. Well, tell me one, one other thing though.
Holding the Book for the First Time
00:03:00
Speaker
What's it, what's it like having, um,
00:03:02
Speaker
It's been a long process, five years. What's it like having the physical copy in your hand and being like, this is the thingy here? Yeah, it's very cool. I think I kind of am coming back to
00:03:20
Speaker
the child version of myself in some ways like this is what I wanted to do when I was very young was write a book when I was seven or eight or nine. And then I moved away from that it seems so impractical for so long and I that I didn't go to school thinking I'm going to be a writer and
00:03:37
Speaker
I didn't come back to that until my 20s really. So this feels like a big victory for like the seven year old version of me. I mean, just holding the book is very cool. I have two kids, one of whom is just starting to read and his first name is my last name. So his first name is Brody and he can read that his name is on the cover. So he knows something about it is special. And that's been kind of cool too.
00:04:07
Speaker
wow that's that's absolutely incredible like that that that connection and um and and you know the the book being there um okay so i've i've i've i've uh i admitted to you um that i've read uh half the book which puts me in a very precarious uh place and uh obviously book coming out uh you know uh with with the release uh january 2nd here um it's uh
00:04:39
Speaker
I adore the genre. There was something I didn't know.
Technology & Authenticity in Writing
00:04:43
Speaker
I didn't know exactly. But with the thriller, the crime, the characters that you have are just so... They're just so intriguing. The characters that show up, people who shouldn't be there or were there, and this whole mystery behind it,
00:05:08
Speaker
You know, and it's called, it's called, it's called rabbit hole. One of the things I wanted to mention, um, uh, was, you know, your use of, um, it was used a tech in reference to Reddit and has this technology, a feel to it.
00:05:25
Speaker
And it's, I feel like for an author, it's always like, maybe difficult. And like, how do you do that? And how do you capture the technology of the time? And I don't use Reddit a lot. Like I have people reference it to me a lot. And part of the reason I use it is because I feel I'll go down the rabbit hole in some of the things that are in my head. So I proceed with caution, but just with the background that there's a mystery that we have this idea of, which had become very prominent of
00:05:55
Speaker
Folks out there related to true crime whether it's podcast or reddit and like diving into the phenomena of trying to solve what happens What was it like for you managing that component where you're kind of using you know? Reddit and technology and not trying to be cute. I mean it's right there. It's embedded What was that like doing with with this novel and how did that work for you? I
00:06:23
Speaker
Yeah, it was tricky to get it right. I mean, I think I was really wary about the voice sounding off. That was the key kind of craft piece, I think, was voice. When you log on to Reddit, there's no images. It's entirely text-face. And there's so much vernacular that's specific, not just to the internet, but to that site.
00:06:47
Speaker
and all of the users sound the same in some ways, but they also have their own kind of distinct mannerisms. So that was, I think the work for me was making sure it didn't sound, I didn't want to sound like a caricature of the internet. I wanted it to sound real and authentic, but also get at, you know, some of the more
Themes of True Crime & Online Communities
00:07:13
Speaker
Terrifying parts of these communities though the premise of the book right is Teddy stumbles upon these Online communities where people are discussing her sister's disappearance and these exist these forums where people just speculate about crimes that have happened and they don't
00:07:36
Speaker
read particularly sinister. I think a lot of the true crime that's kind of in the mainstream right now, it's all very sanitized and it feels very consumable, but there are real people on the other side of it. So it was kind of like, well, what would it be like to encounter these threads as the subject of these threads? Like to be the subject of all of this speculation and attention, which I think is such
00:08:05
Speaker
I find that to be so scary and unpleasant. I mean, I think that's also why I write fiction, like the idea of people of talking about myself or making myself the subject in any way is really upsetting to me. So the idea that they have sort of turned Teddy into this character, turned her family members into these characters and are kind of moving them around for their own
00:08:30
Speaker
uh, entertainment. Um, and that, that was something I did spend a little bit of time and like Reddit, subreddits that have to do with true crime, um, and other Reddits. I mean, I, I ended up kind of earnestly spending a lot of time on Reddit because it is kind of addictive. I mean, I started like, Oh, I'm not going to like this at all. And then they feed you exactly what you want. You know, you like dogs, here's dog stuff. You like writing, here's writing stuff. Exactly. Yeah.
00:08:58
Speaker
And it's very easy to find your people for better or worse, and kind of just continue to exist in these echo chambers of your own thoughts. Yeah, yeah. There's something about the text-based piece of it.
00:09:16
Speaker
I kind of, I'm old enough where, you know, home computers kind of came in. And so for me, I have a deeper connection to it. It's almost like text-based adventure, text-based chat, like it's basic in that. And so I have a just, I just have a strong connection to it.
00:09:34
Speaker
Okay, you've done a lot of creating you create a lot of things and this being Your this debut book with quotes demonstrating much aplomb and reception To it
Artistic Identity & Transition
00:09:54
Speaker
When did you see yourself as an artist, as a creator? I heard you say the seven-year-old me and the book, but I wanted to ask you a question. When did you see yourself as an artist?
00:10:06
Speaker
Yeah, that's, I think, um, definitely when I was a kid, I, I did a lot of creative writing. I was a big reader, like most writers. I think when you talk to them, they were big, big readers as kids. Um, I don't think for most of my life, I don't think I saw myself as an artist. I definitely saw myself as a writer, but it was more, um, technical. It was like, okay, give me anything and I can write it. Give me any essay or any, um,
00:10:34
Speaker
when my friends were applying to law school and med school, I wrote all their essays for them. I was that person who could just make anything sound good. And I still like that part of it. I still like making a sentence sound really perfect. I like the music of it. So I think that was kind of how I came to it first. And then
00:10:57
Speaker
I took a creative writing class in college at the time I thought I was going to be a doctor. And it was supposed to be kind of my blow off for fun class because I knew I loved that as a kid. That's the setup. That is. I'm still very close with that professor and I'm like, you ruined my life. People are dead.
00:11:18
Speaker
Um, but yeah, so then, um, then I, I just went all in. I loved it. I went straight to grad school at NYU and, um, I still don't think I thought of myself as an artist for a long time, maybe until very recently. Um, it just felt too,
00:11:38
Speaker
grand, but I do think of myself as somebody who loves art. And so that's something I'm chasing. And yeah, I think the art of language is really, that's what I love. I mean, it's stories too, but the, the way in for me, I think was sentences and, and getting the words exactly right. Yeah. Yeah. I, uh,
00:12:05
Speaker
I think that's great. What about, you know, this is an author question, but you're saying you've done a ton of reading. I was the same. I am the same way. I mean, I was the same way. What authors really do it for you that say, shit, I want to write because I just saw somebody create something that's so magical. I don't know what to do with it. What kind of authors for you pushed it that way?
Literary Inspirations & Influences
00:12:32
Speaker
When I was a kid, I was such a dorky kid. I used to write a lot of fan mail to the writers. Yes. Yes. I understand everything you're talking about. Don't worry. Roll into it. That's good. Sharon Creech was a big one for me. I loved Sharon Creech. I wrote her a letter. She wrote me back. It was like my most prized possession was a letter. Because I remember she said, you sound like you might be a writer someday.
00:12:57
Speaker
Damn, yeah, that's right to hear it that'll get you you can get 10 years out of that But you mean you need like one person every decade to say that to you to eventually Hey, they go like one a decade. I'm sure when the book comes out, there's gonna be more than one But no, it's good. That's that that's that's really cool. Um, yeah, and she you know wrote to you and kind of yeah, and then I got into a lot of
00:13:23
Speaker
I wrote a book before this book that kind of went nowhere when I was in my MFA program, and that was not at all a thriller or a crime book, but that also was, when I was a kid, I was really big into mysteries and thrillers. I loved- Love it.
00:13:39
Speaker
those really pulpy Christopher Pike books. I don't know if you ever read those. They're kind of like YA, but those I loved and read them way too young and ended up with a whole slew of phobias, I think, just from those books. And then in college, like when I really decided this is what I want to do, I think it was Raymond Carver, Mary Gateskill, Alice Monroe, like really great short story writers. At least that's what I was chasing.
00:14:09
Speaker
And now I see a ton of people. I mean, with Rabbit Hole, I'm so tuned in now to who's doing...
00:14:17
Speaker
thrillers in a really interesting way. And I think B Setin wrote Berlin this year, which I think it did pretty well, but I still think it's underappreciated. It's so good. It's one of those thrillers that it's not really loud. There's not like a big murder. It's just so tense in every paragraph.
00:14:39
Speaker
It reminded me of Intimacies by Katie Kitamura, which I also really love and think does that really well. The whole book feels...
00:14:47
Speaker
like a Hitchcock movie. Like it just feels like there's a score that is making everything kind of vibrate. Um, so Berlin I love. Um, and then, yeah, I mostly, I honestly mostly don't read crime fiction. I think I mostly read literary fiction, um, and a lot of contemporary literary fiction. I just read, um, Jennifer Bell. I don't know her at all. So this isn't like,
00:15:13
Speaker
a friend plug, but she has a book for me. Friend plugs are okay even if they were. Keep going, I'm sorry. But just for credibility, it is really good. It's Swana in Love. It was pitched as like an inverse Lolita, and I love Lolita. I just reread Lolita and then read Swana in Love, and that book is incredible. I think it comes out January 30th.
00:15:36
Speaker
And it is so funny too. I mean, it's heartbreaking and it's, um, gorgeously written, but it's really, really funny. So that's, uh, the one I've been recommending all the time lately. Love that. And, uh, with the lead, the lead, if you've read the, uh, the Bach off, if you've read a decent amount of.
00:15:57
Speaker
Yeah, when I was in, I loved Mary Gatesville, and then I got to study with her at NYU, and she's kind of a scholar, really, of Nabokov. So she walked us through, yeah, she's done some of the forwards and a lot of writing about his work. So she was a great guide through a lot of
00:16:20
Speaker
you know, short stories and pale fire and things that I hadn't read. And I, uh, I, I, um, the Bach off, I, I mean, it's such, such a giant, but I, what I like, what I like about him, um, well, uh, pale fire, I, I think is, I think is just an absolutely amazing book. But the thing is with the Bach off, uh, that, that threw me off and intrigued me was, um,
00:16:48
Speaker
His kinda takedown of Dostoevsky.
00:16:51
Speaker
uh crime and crime and crime and punishment and i'm like i was just shocked you know because when you have these like mass you know in literature we have these books where it's like fuck nobody can say anything wrong about this like nobody can say anything's like you know like it's crime and punishment and just kind of like a very careful read but um you know what he didn't buy in the tension what he didn't buy in the salvation story and it's like
00:17:18
Speaker
Damn, like, you know, I like people who pick out the big ones and say, Oh, this didn't work for me.
Philosophical Discussion on Art
00:17:26
Speaker
So, yeah, no, I love that. We need more bitchy writer, bitchy, bitchy, like long, I, you know, I just something about the lectures on literature and stuff where you find by him. And it's like,
00:17:39
Speaker
You know, there's so much there's so much juicy stuff in here from a from from a giant. OK, what what what the heck is art, Kate? Like, what is it? What is it? I feel like I knew this was coming. I woke up last night and I felt like I had a great answer. And then I feel like I lost it again. I don't know. I actually am always thinking about this because I think sometimes, especially when you're
00:18:08
Speaker
Right now I'm drafting a new book and it can feel sometimes like the most important thing. Like this is very important what I'm doing. And then other days I sit down and I'm like, this is goofy. Honestly, this is so silly that I'm, these are not real people. No one asked me to do this. It's like the work of a child to invent these things. And then, and then I'm upset about it too. I'm like, Oh, that was a hard day. You know, something bad happened to this made up person. Um,
00:18:38
Speaker
But I think with writing, anyway, it feels so essential to being human. Like everyone in my family is in medicine. So also I think that contributes to my sense of sometimes that this is goofy work, because it's not literally life-saving work. But they're also all very big readers. And I think this trying to
00:19:07
Speaker
say something about the human experience or bring you closer to another person's life. I just think nothing does it better than fiction. I was listening to actually Barbara Kingsolver on a podcast recently and
00:19:26
Speaker
The host was saying, oh, you know, it's all about empathy. And she said, like, no, it's beyond empathy. It's not empathy. Empathy is like, I see my experience in your experience. She's like, when you're reading, you are in that character's life, like you are in their head past that.
00:19:42
Speaker
Yeah, and I thought that that that felt right to me that that it's the only thing that brings you Not just into a kind of I see me and you but I am you I get to touch that for a second and I think that's true across all art forms I am I
00:20:07
Speaker
I love photography. With part of my advance, I bought myself this big picture that I love from this artist, Lisa Sorgini. And I do think that is similar. I think about photography a lot when I'm writing, that the way an image can just kind of touch you in a way that is
00:20:32
Speaker
passwords, you know, like, I used to teach high school. And when I taught the high school kids, they would drive me crazy, because they were always like, well, but what is the what is the point of this story? And I was like, Oh, you know, if, if I could tell you it in a sentence, why would there be a story, like the story is the most
00:20:55
Speaker
concentrated, most distilled version of itself. Like there is no, I cannot get it any smaller than that. The story is the thing. And it's so experiential that I think that it feels like it's at the core to me.
00:21:12
Speaker
Yeah, I got the question, you know, about the role of art because I heard you, you know, it's fascinating to hear about your family and, you know, kind of medical background and what your path was. And, you know, you mentioned life saving work, but aren't books life saving work, like a lot of the time?
00:21:35
Speaker
Yeah, I mean I feel that I don't and I know a lot of readers feel that way, you know that this is the stuff that gets you through It does feel important and And kind of the point, you know, what's the point of all of this if we're not gonna Try to try to say something try to communicate with other people Express something to other people and do it in a new way. I think
00:22:04
Speaker
The goal is always, what can I say that feels new and fresh and hasn't been said or is a different way of looking at it? Like that's what's so thrilling when you find a book that you love is it feels like it both says
Book Tour Details
00:22:21
Speaker
something that you've been thinking, but also that it shows you something brand new somehow at the same time.
00:22:30
Speaker
Yeah, I wanted to tell you something related to the book title in the show. I had Sadie Dupuis, singer for Speedy Ortiz and author. And the band, she had put out the album called Rabbit Rabbit. And it was related to, at the first of each month, the first day of each month, you say Rabbit Rabbit and it's good luck.
00:23:00
Speaker
And I hadn't heard of that. So and then she'd released a single. And, you know, Rabbit Rabbit, you know, at the beginning of each month, it was just so interesting with Rabbit Hole, like it was January 2nd, 2024. And I'm like, I had these months and like of like thinking about that. And now with Rabbit Hole here, I'm like, it's really cool to be able to connect at least to my head. That's all I do with the show, like connect to my head to
00:23:25
Speaker
to this. So 2024, January 2nd, a lot of noticeably conspicuous great quotes about this book as well. Where are folks going to be able to see it? What's the book and tour? What are things looking like in that regard, 2024?
00:23:51
Speaker
Yeah. So, um, I'm going to try that rabbit rabbit thing on the first cause that's good to know. I've never heard of that. It blew my mind and I made complete sense to me. If first in a month you say rabbit rabbit, it's good luck at the beginning. And then you go.
00:24:05
Speaker
Yeah, that's so interesting. Yeah, we're going to be starting. I live in LA, but we're going to start the tour on the East Coast. So I'll be in New Canaan, Connecticut on January 4th, and then New York City at P&T Knitwear on January 5th.
00:24:22
Speaker
and then New Jersey where I grew up on the sixth and then we'll be back here in L.A. on January 17th, D.C. in February and Arizona I think in March so yeah that's all. We're Boston D.C.
00:24:38
Speaker
We're about politics and pros on politics and pros. You made it. You made it. That's that's the that's the dopest store books. Well, one of them one of the dopest stores you'll find in D.C. Good. Good on you. In Jersey, too. I'm from Rhode Island, original. Oh, nice. Yeah, I'm out in in Oregon now. So it's good to
00:25:01
Speaker
It's good to hear you from Jersey, too. I love Jersey in case we need to get into a weird kind of conversation, talking shit.
Philosophical Explorations of Existence
00:25:12
Speaker
So really, really exciting to hear about the tour and to have this out in the world.
00:25:22
Speaker
Um, I wanted to I wanted to ask you the the the big question. I have a couple other questions Okay, but the but the but the big question um the philosophical question is uh Why why do you think there's something rather than nothing? Why why is there? something rather than nothing I
00:25:51
Speaker
don't know that I understand nothing, right? Like all I know is something. I don't know that nothing is possible. The book is interested in grief. I think about death a lot. So I am sort of interested in nothingness, I guess, as it relates to death.
00:26:24
Speaker
And I think that is also a lot of what motivates making art is this idea of doing something, something tangible, something that will eclipse your own nothingness, even though that's, I think, probably folly.
00:26:51
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know why there's something rather than nothing. Maybe it's not We can't have nothing Yeah, I think no I heard in I heard in your answer, you know and a contemplation of death classical philosophy said that that's all it is Plato says philosophy is just the rumination of death you can look at Plato's writing about Socrates and it has to do why does somebody why does the good man die? Why is he killed by society?
00:27:21
Speaker
There's a lot of death in philosophy, and it seems shocking to say, but it is. It's the mortality. I've always found it to be such an exciting question related to creativity, because we are struggling against existence and non-existence. There's something about the book, too. There's something you said about beyond empathy.
00:27:49
Speaker
That I think is kind of super important. It's almost like the proximity of the reader and the processing into the character. And I agree with you. You can't duplicate that any way. That's why it's such a unique form. It's the intimacy. It's the intimacy.
00:28:09
Speaker
How do you, on intimacy, how do you, you mentioned this, the book, maybe a death related to the book, the intimacy that this is yours, the intimacy that this creation is yours and then it's out in the world, that birth, is that scary as shit to you?
00:28:28
Speaker
Yeah, it is now and now that we're a couple weeks out from publication We have gotten the book into a lot of early readers hands. So a few hundred people have already read it Which takes I think a little bit of the pressure out of that release date. I've already gotten some early feedback Yeah, it's scary it's um
00:28:54
Speaker
You feel protective of the work. You feel protective of the characters. I also feel like I'm not the same person who wrote this book. This isn't the book I would write now, which is an odd thing. And I'm trying to still do a good job promoting it and recognize that this was the work that I
00:29:19
Speaker
was so invested in for years because now I am kind of on to the next, you know, I am writing something else and that feels more like where I am right now. So this book, which is I think a lot about being in your 20s and grieving and being sort of stuck between adolescence and adulthood,
00:29:40
Speaker
it doesn't feel as immediately relevant to me as it did when I was writing it. So it's a bit like somebody else wrote it. I think maybe that helps a little bit too. I have a little distance from it where I can let it go. But I think, you know, you get to a place, hopefully, when you've written
00:29:58
Speaker
enough stuff and thrown some things away where you kind of detach from it. Once you're done, it's not for you anymore. Like it really is for the readers and hopefully they like it, but I don't know. It's odd now because people will seek you out and tell you what they think of it, which is interesting.
00:30:28
Speaker
That's both ways. It's mostly very positive. But yeah, you just kind of want to be like, well, I wrote it. My part's done. Now is your part. You read it. You have your experience of it. But it doesn't really end there because of how intertwined we all are now that you're involved in an ongoing dialogue about the work, which feels a little odd to me. I kind of just want to
00:30:53
Speaker
You know, it's not my business anymore. Yeah. How's the West Coast feel to you being from Jersey?
Cultural Transition from East Coast to LA
00:31:01
Speaker
It's growing on me. We moved out here like four years ago. My husband and I lived in New York for six years. He's from Queens. All right. Shout out to Queens. Shout out to Queens. We were living in Queens for a while. And when we moved out here, we were like, oh, this will just be a short little adventure. And then we'll move back to New York.
00:31:23
Speaker
But they wear you down, you know, the weather's not nothing. And it's very easy. Everything's very easy here. So I do miss the East Coast, though. No, no, it's it's it's, you know, the sensitivity to the to the lands that you are. I think about this so much, you know, I'm.
00:31:45
Speaker
as such a part of me, that's such a city kid from Rhode Island, that doesn't change. Oregon's the strangest fucking place in the universe. For me, I'm so fascinated by it.
00:32:04
Speaker
It's good and bad. It's weird. The woods are weird. The pockets of people are weird. It's like Twin Peaks land. I'm far more excitable than anybody I come in contact with.
00:32:23
Speaker
spazzy east coast stuff. They're like, whoa, dude, what's up with it? I enjoy it. And it's good, but it is truly different lands out west for me. And I adore LA. I think, I don't know if this happened to you, but being a kid out east, LA is on another planet, like the Hollywood and the beautiful people and the music and the culture and the sun.
00:32:53
Speaker
And so that never leaves my head. Like when I'm in L.A., I'm like, I don't know, not in a dark way, but like in Mulholland Drive, I'm in like L.A. and this is like wild, wild thing. And so that's never gone. But I think it's fun to get a kick out of a place even though like I truly don't understand it. I like I love the vibe.
00:33:18
Speaker
And LA is so completely different than New York. I mean, I can't compare them. Like, I can't. Like, a lot of people, a lot of stuff going on is the main category, but I'm glad you make it. Yeah. I feel a little bit too like I have some friends who are also transplants out here who just really, they love it. They were like, they got here and they understood it right away. Yeah.
00:33:46
Speaker
And I don't necessarily feel that way. And some of my writer friends who LA speaks to them in some way, they can set stories here. They really get it in that way. I don't think I could write about LA. But I also couldn't write about New Jersey where I grew up until I left. And now the new thing that I'm working on is set in New Jersey, which always felt
00:34:10
Speaker
kind of like a dead end to me. Like how could I write about this place? There's nothing going on here. Cause I just couldn't see what was weird about it when I was there. It was just, you know, the water that I was swimming in. So yeah, I feel a little bit like, you know, Joyce writing about Ireland and exile. Now everything is about New Jersey that I've finally gotten some distance from it. So it's yeah, the, the place thing is interesting. And LA is so,
00:34:39
Speaker
So vast. I feel like I, you know, it's been four and a half years. I feel like I really still just got here. I don't have a sense of it yet. Yeah, there can be so much to a different type of place. I mean, I found it like I was thinking about like place I lived in Wisconsin for 12 years. I just I love Wisconsin. I love the Midwest. So completely distinct in my experience.
00:35:05
Speaker
with the east coast and west coast. For me, I was thinking about what you're saying with settings and what attracts you in your own head. I don't want to write a story here, but for me, there's something about the Midwest. I always think there's something in my head about where I'm coming from. From outside, you can pick out this weird stuff that annoys people, natives and stuff like that, people to the area.
00:35:31
Speaker
But at the other time, there are these revelations, you'd be like, why is it that you do that? And they're like, I thought everybody did that. And you're like, no, I'm interested because I've never seen anybody do that. And I don't know, that part's stimulating to me, maybe annoying to the locals. I don't know.
00:35:49
Speaker
No, it's good for writing though to be able to see to have an outside that's I actually I talked to be setting about Berlin because she has a really fascinating personal history and she has moved all over. She's lived everywhere. She's kind of like a permanent
00:36:05
Speaker
She's just always living in new places. And I think that's also why Berlin is so great and works so well as a thriller because she has such an outsider's perspective on every city that she visits, pretty much. She's always there spotting what is strange about this place, what is different about this place, how do I not quite fit here. And that is really rich for writing to be on the outside.
00:36:34
Speaker
That's exciting. For me, in Berlin, the time period I've been most fascinated with, for years and years and years, is the German expressionist movement in Deep Rook in the 1920s and 30s, and the political, sexual, everything going on in Berlin prior to the
00:36:57
Speaker
You see the rise of fascism around that time. But there's something so, I mean, at least artistically spectacular about the display of what's going on in Berlin at that time. So I think all you had to say was Berlin as the title.
00:37:13
Speaker
I go back to Berlin Stories by Ishwood. So exciting, grand place. I've never been there, but you build it up in your head, right? As a reader, as somebody, as a historian or things like that. Kate, where do people find your writing, your work, your mind, the way that you want them to find you?
Where to Find Kate's Work Online
00:37:42
Speaker
So I have a website that I should probably update more than I do. It's katebrodyauthor.com and that has essays and things. There's going to be a lot of
00:37:53
Speaker
essays coming out around the release of the book, as well as some short fiction. And there are short stories that like the Rumpus and things like that. So yeah, all that is on Cape Rode author. And then I am sort of sporadically on Twitter and Instagram also at Cape Rode author. And I try to keep anything coming out on there as well. So that's probably Instagram is probably the best way. Honestly, that's the one I update the most.
00:38:24
Speaker
awesome um so excited i'm even excited for your book you know we just met but uh 2020 2024 and uh folks you'll be hearing this episode on the day of release we're just kicking it around here uh in december uh for the holidays but uh yeah today uh january 2nd 2024 rabbit hole
00:38:47
Speaker
uh kate brody i gotta tell you something it's it's really cool um you know me doing this podcast i think it's just such an absolute thrill to to come in contact with you to learn about um you writing to get that book in hand you know like readers writers like having that book open up that package getting into it
00:39:09
Speaker
That shit's thrilling. So I wanted to thank you for the opportunity and just be able to chat literature and philosophy. And best of luck with this book.
00:39:26
Speaker
Any chance we could get you over to Powell's and Powell's Books in Oregon, or should I work on that? We need to get you over there at the Powell's. I would love that. I would love to come to Powell's. Actually, I think it's okay to say, because this is not coming out until the book release. But as I understand, it's like a Powell's pick rabbit hole, so it should be pretty front and center in Powell's. Shit, yeah. And yeah, I've never been up to Oregon. And now we're on the west coast, so I got to make a trip.
00:39:58
Speaker
I'm definitely going to dig in on the date there with the pick of the month or something. Great bookstore. I go there a lot. I try to bring in a box of books to
00:40:21
Speaker
help my habit, help my book habit, bring in the old supply and look at my partner Jenny and say, hey, I have brought two books, two bags, I'll be coming out with half a bag, so I've decreased 1.5 bags in this transaction. But great bookstore, union employees, union employees there, so it's a unionized bookshop.
00:40:49
Speaker
just a hell of a place. And I will certainly be taking maybe with a New Year's jacket, go over to Paul's with Kate Brody's book, Rabbit Hole. And we'll have that as a promo photo as well. Love Paul's and hope to see you there. Kate, thanks for coming on something rather than nothing. Thank you so much. This is a lot of fun and I love the show. So just keep doing what you're doing.
00:41:17
Speaker
I appreciate it, and remember, everybody, Rabbit Rabbit January 1st. Rabbit Rabbit. Rabbit Hole, into the Rabbit Hole January 2nd. That's your plan for the first two days of January. It's the year of the rabbit. It's the year of the rabbit. Hey, thanks Kate, and best of luck with Rabbit Hole. It's gonna, people gonna know about it. Thank you so much.
00:41:47
Speaker
So for this excerpt, I'm going to read, it's about 25 pages into the book. So it's at the beginning of the book. The novel opens with Teddy's father's suicide. And this scene is Teddy and her mother scattering his ashes after they've had him cremated.
00:42:14
Speaker
We cremate him to get it over with, and on Monday, while it's raining and everyone is at home or at work, we sneak back onto the bridge where he killed himself to scatter his ashes through the hole he left behind. Is this the right place, Mom asks, when we've already thrown half the dust?
00:42:31
Speaker
Where else? I'm holding a fistful of my father in a gloved hand. The ashes are coarse and gray, and mom told me they taste of metal and eggs. She said she felt compelled to consume a small amount. I didn't ask questions. I don't know, she says. You can let that go. I empty my hand with some ashes stick to the wet suede.
00:42:56
Speaker
Mom says they are called cremains. They shouldn't make portmanteaus for stuff like this, I think. What they should do is find a way to make this powder smell like the person it came from, like bar soap and hidden chocolates. The mortician put the remains in a large square tin and covered them with loose cotton, like a bottle of aspirin. I thought it was a nice touch. It reminded me of the rabbit holes we used to find in the backyard as kids, covered over with the mamas down.
00:43:25
Speaker
Dad would poke at the cotton fluff using a stick so we could get a peek at the bunnies, small as hamsters and blind, all curled together for warmth. Dad would hold the barrier back for a moment, warning us not to touch anything and leave a scent behind or the mama rabbit would abandon her babies and they'd starve to death. Then he'd drop it gently. The cotton would fall and the bunnies would disappear, safe, ready for the mama to come home to them.
00:43:53
Speaker
We finished the work in silence. There is more to spread than I anticipated. I imagined one elegant sweeping gesture, but we have to return over and over to the supply until it becomes rote, a chore. Somewhere in the middle it strikes me as funny. I laugh and mom laughs too, neither of us acknowledging the joke.
00:44:14
Speaker
And then at the end, it's sad again. At the end, when there's only a little powder left in the plastic lining, and mom shakes it feebly over the jagged wooden posts, I can tell we're both thinking how small it all feels, the end of a person. Why do you think he did it? Mom asks. He was depressed, I say. You know that. He hadn't been himself for a long time. I guess not, she says. Maybe I should have known he might. He had never tried before, I don't think.
00:44:43
Speaker
She pauses. The date makes sense. The anniversary. That's funny, I say. We're out of ashes, so I peel off my soiled gloves and throw them down into the river. That's the part I understand the least. I can't imagine him wanting to steal Angie's thunder. I shake my head. That's putting it wrong. Let's get into the car, Mom says. This damp will chill your bones.
00:45:09
Speaker
She stares out over the bridge. She's not looking down into the shallows where his car fell, but out, out towards the place where the river turns black in the shadow of the narrowing trees, where it snakes out of sight, the last part visible to the eye. This is a beautiful place, isn't it?
00:45:27
Speaker
Through my sunglasses, everything is cast in gray. Sky, trees, river like an artery of tar. Sure, I say. And I turn my parka into an umbrella, holding it above both our heads so we can run back to the car together. Soon it will be April, and then May, and then Summer. And then for a moment, this place will be briefly beautiful. I can imagine it for her.
00:45:52
Speaker
Anyways, she says, when we're 10 minutes into the drive home, we haven't spoken since the bridge. I'm not surprised with his obsession. What obsession? The little I could gather. Angie? All his theories. He was still doing that private detective stuff, I say, feigning incredulity, even though I knew it was for his sake that we never acknowledged she was dead.
00:46:17
Speaker
At some point, we tacitly agreed to not ask and not tell. We settled on treating him like a mental patient and he settled on treating us like apostates. I guess he finally gave up, mom says. This is something rather than nothing.