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Should I Buy a Tesla in 2024? 🚗💡 | The Ultimate Tesla Talk with Carl Jensen!
309 Plays10 months ago
"🎙️ Welcome to the latest episode of the Forget About Money Podcast, where we dive into the electrifying world of Tesla ownership and the future of electric vehicles in the U.S. 🇺🇸! Join your host David Baughier as he sits down with Carl Jensen of 1500days.com to navigate the roads of Tesla driving, ownership experiences, and the broader impact of EVs on our environment and lifestyle. 🌱🔋
🚘 In this episode, we address the burning question: Should I Buy a Tesla in 2024? We cover everything from choosing a Tesla over other EVs, the practicalities of daily Tesla use, to the broader implications of driving a Tesla. 🤔 Carl Jensen shares his personal journey with his Tesla, giving us an insider's view on what it's like to own this innovative vehicle.
🔑 Key Discussions Include:
- Decision-Making Process: How to choose the right Tesla model and what financial considerations to keep in mind. 💰
- Ownership Experience: Carl's firsthand account of living with a Tesla – the highs and the lows. 🚗❤️
- Broader Perspective: The impact of driving a Tesla on the environment and changes in perspectives on sustainable living. 🌍
🔎 We also delve into intriguing topics like Tesla stock ownership, hidden costs, and the reality of long trips with an EV. Plus, we spice it up with a fun discussion about flying cars and Elon Musk's recent legal battles! 🚀⚖️
👉 Stay tuned for a comprehensive understanding of owning a Tesla in 2024, and get some invaluable tips if you're considering making the switch to an electric vehicle. Whether you're a tech enthusiast, an environmental advocate, or just curious about Teslas, this episode has something for everyone!
📱 Follow us on social media for more exciting content: Twitter & Instagram: @forgetaboutmoney 🌐 YouTube: @forgetaboutmoneypodcast
#TeslaIn2024 #EVFuture #SustainableDriving #ForgetAboutMoneyPodcast #CarlJensen #ElectricVehicles #ModelY #TeslaOwnership #TechTalk"
Remember to like, share, and subscribe for more insightful discussions on the latest in technology and finance! 🔔💬
🔗 Relevant Links:
Forbes Article on EV Sales: https://www.forbes.com/sites/edgarsten/2023/12/14/ev-sales-pace-is-running-short-of-power-going-into-2024/?sh=3124e51a7985
NBC News on Elon Musk's Legal Battle: https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/judge-throws-elon-musks-56-billion-tesla-pay-package-rcna136468
🚨 Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are for general informational purposes only and are not intended as financial advice."
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Transcript
Introduction to Carl Jensen and Tesla Ownership
00:00:00
Speaker
Today, Carl Jensen and I discuss Tesla ownership and the current and future state of electric vehicles in the U.S. Here we go. Welcome to Forget About Money, where we encourage you to take action today so that you can focus on what matters most to you. Today, we're talking to Carl Jensen. He is the man behind the blog 1500 Days, and he's been a friend of mine for
00:00:27
Speaker
quite some time, a number of years. Recently, I discovered that he purchased a Tesla, but Carl has been talking about Tesla for years, ever since I've known him. And it's always been a purchase that he's, I believe, had some kind of internal consternation about moving forward with, even though he's got the money to do so. So we're going to talk about all of those things and the Tesla itself today.
Catching Up and Car Enthusiasm
00:00:49
Speaker
Welcome, Carl. How are you? I'm good. How are you, David? I am doing very well.
00:00:54
Speaker
It's been a while since you and I've spoken. And what's been going on since then? Oh, man. When was the last time we talked, David? Was it? I don't even remember. I guess it's been a while. I think you came out to San Diego for Camp Phi Southwest, and you and Stephen took your Corvette over to Julian.
00:01:14
Speaker
Yes, that's right. And that's another car reference, David. And when you say you're Corvette, I do not, in fact, own a Corvette, but I decided to run one as a spending experiment. I am a car fan, so I wondered if renting one would get the Corvette out of my system. And so, yeah, we got to drive around on a Corvette. I don't think you ever did, though, David, right? Just Stephen.
00:01:36
Speaker
I did not... I think maybe just to drive into the parking garage, maybe, or I ran into the parking garage to get you in there as you stayed at my house the night before. So, but you said you would... I did listen to yours and Mindy's, your wife's new podcast, Mindy on Money, or Mindy and Carl on Money, which is great, by the way. And I think I overheard you saying that it's not something you would do again. You got it out of your system and that was good for you, especially on those LA roads.
00:02:07
Speaker
Yeah, I've always been a car person and a Corvette was always maybe one of the dream cars I had. I used to lust after cars as a kid. I was the kid with the Countach poster on my wall. Did you have any car posters, David?
00:02:23
Speaker
Oh man, I think the earliest posters that I remember having were of the early 90s, late 80s rock, big hair rock bands, like Iron Maiden and Poison and Motley Crue. And the crazy thing is, is like I didn't even listen to all that music. Never even been a fan of Iron Maiden, but for some reason at that time, the artwork, I think it was like a lot of skulls and craziness.
00:02:48
Speaker
I don't know i enjoyed it so we we had those back when you had magazines you have posters that folded out so that's what we have for posters i honestly don't remember too many cars or sports figures posters. In my early days so no i don't think i had any car posters but if i did it probably would be some some kind of classic car.
00:03:07
Speaker
I'm trying to picture you with hair metal hair, like you with big hair, David, and it's a very weird picture in my head. But anyway, the Corvette was an experiment. I'm like, this car is pretty cool. It's the first mid-engine Corvette, which was always the original dream of the dude who invented the Corvette. So I'm like, hey, you know, I should rent one and see what the thing is like, and then maybe I won't want to buy one after that.
Electric Vehicles: Efficiency and Benefits
00:03:30
Speaker
It turns out driving around a Corvette around LA at rush hour, as you could guess, really, really sucks. And I won't need to repeat that experiment again.
00:03:40
Speaker
Out of the mountains by where the camp was, it was great, but how much of your driving is actually out there? And is it really worth it to spend all that money just to take a few curves quickly? The answer is no, at least in my case. Yeah, and also, in the case of a Corvette, it's not very fuel efficient. It's fun, but not fuel efficient. And I know that too, because I've had a similar engine. For 20 years, my everyday driver was like, I believe it was a 1990 Camaro.
00:04:08
Speaker
And finally i was like at thirteen miles per gallon i had to let it go and a couple of other expenses i was going to have to pour into it to make a last another decade but it was a lot of fun to drive very loud and definitely not feel efficient unlike the new electric cars which are i do say fuel even though it's battery.
00:04:28
Speaker
They do have like a mile per gallon rating, which roughly determines how much fuel it gets. So they do have some correlation with that. But yeah, usually you don't say fuel, you would say maybe kilowatts per mile or miles per kilowatt hour. So you are a, one of my cool memories when I first started to get to know you was we were at Camp Phi Southeast and there was a space shuttle launch, I believe,
00:04:57
Speaker
or some kind of launch over at Cape Canaveral. And you were excited about that. And I didn't even know what was going on, but you and like eight other people just stormed out really quick to go look up into a dark sky. And so that's when I knew you had this deep desire to learn or, or just to know about and experience technology and science. And that connects with how you think about Tesla and electric cars and EV vehicles in general.
00:05:25
Speaker
And how long have you been interested in the EV vehicle movement? And when did you finally decide that or start thinking like maybe I want one for myself?
00:05:37
Speaker
David, I got super, super, super lucky. Back around 2012, I saw my first Tesla Model S, which was their first car that they really produced for the masses. They had a little sports car based on a Lotus before that, but that was very small numbers. The point of that was to fund the development and production of the Model S. I saw a Model S somewhere around 2012.
00:05:59
Speaker
I'm like, hey, that thing looks pretty cool. And I was already familiar with Elon Musk. I knew he ran Tesla. I was a PayPal investor before he had Tesla. So at that point, I think it was August of 2012, I bought Tesla stock.
00:06:14
Speaker
And how'd that work out for you, Carl? It worked out very well. But the thing that did, and back to your original question, is that caused me to pay attention to the EV space, especially when the stock started to do good. And to be clear here, I'm no
00:06:30
Speaker
miracle investor. I just thought the car looked cool. And at the time Elon Musk was a little bit different back then. I thought Elon Musk was cool. I'm like, you know what? I've got some money laying around. I think it was like 5,000 bucks. I'm going to throw it into the stock and now I think it's worth 500,000. Yeah, it's roughly 100X. That's not a bad, you definitely don't have a FOMO on that one. Maybe FOMO putting more in at that time, but it worked out well for you.
00:06:53
Speaker
Yeah, it was great. Again, I got very lucky and I'm very stubborn, which usually is not a good quality to have. But when it comes to being stubborn about selling stocks, it worked out well in this case. And this last week, Tesla stock price took a little bit of a hit. Does that
00:07:09
Speaker
Do you look at it often? And if so, do you think like, should I sell? Or is this something you've just like, no matter what, I'm just going to hold onto it forever because you didn't get in so low. Yeah. That that's one of the bad things about owning individual stocks is that it causes mental bandwidth. So if I own QQQ or VTSAX, which I think is what everyone should do, including myself, there's no drama. There's no, there's not going to be news articles about what the CEO is doing or what crazy stuff he's posted on X or Twitter that week.
00:07:39
Speaker
But the fact that I do own that stock makes me pay attention to it every day because I think I have to. I need to know when to get off this train or if it's a good idea to keep continue holding. Yeah, so I probably spend, I don't know, half an hour to an hour every day maybe following up on the news which
00:08:00
Speaker
I don't think is the best use of my time and is a really good case for not owning an individual stock. You bought Tesla in 2012 and is that when you just focused on Tesla as the EV brand of choice or what motivated you to choose Tesla over other electric vehicles or even a traditional car?
Tesla's Market Influence and Appeal
00:08:24
Speaker
I'm not sure if they're... Yeah, well, it was just a stupid decision. I thought it looked cool. And then I went for a ride in one and not many things surprised me in life, but I got on Tesla's mainland list somehow and they sent me an email saying, hey, you should come test drive a Model S at this autocross course we have set up at the Denver Broncos Stadium.
00:08:46
Speaker
So I did that and they encouraged you to drive the car like with up to its maximum capabilities. So the guy is like, just step on the gas pedal, like all the way down and see what happens. I'm like, okay, if you insist. So I did that. And then, so there was a straightaway and then I'm going around these cones and the thing was so fast and so violent. I was the one driving, but despite that, I was car sick. I almost threw up after one minute in this car and I'm like,
00:09:14
Speaker
I'm like holy crap I think I'm gonna throw up and holy crap this is so awesome because this car is so violent and fast it's so good like this is just incredible but back to your original question I don't there weren't really many other EV players in the game Nissan might have had the leaf out at that time
00:09:32
Speaker
But it was kind of a nerd mobile. What Tesla really did for EVs is, I'll back up a second. So if you bought a Nissan Leaf, you bought it because maybe you wanted to save the world. And you thought an EV would be a cool way to do that. But if you bought a Tesla, you might have bought it because of the performance of that. It looked cool. And the EV was actually a secondary consideration.
00:09:56
Speaker
I continue to hold it because I think that's where the world is going to. You don't see it as much in America unless you live in California. Like you do, David, every other car is probably a Tesla. I think they call it the California Camry. But if you go to Norway, I think 90% of new cars sold are EVs. Europe, China especially, China is probably second to some of these Norwegian countries. EVs are going to be the future, whether people like it or not. And Tesla is probably one of the
00:10:24
Speaker
leaders in that. They are definitely one of the leaders. The Chinese are giving them a run for their money though, especially BYD. I don't know if I even answered your original question. I'm sorry, David. I keep on going off on tangents. Rain me back in.
00:10:38
Speaker
No, I just asked what made it motivated you to choose a Tesla over any of the other electrical vehicle brands or a traditional car. And I think you've answered that. You're intrigued with Tesla as a brand. You liked electric as a technology and as the future and you just enjoy it. Yeah. That's why you went with Tesla other than like Rivian or you say BYD, which is another
00:11:00
Speaker
Yes, and one thing I'll add to it, David, is Tesla realized something early on and it wasn't actually Musk. It was J.B. Straubel, one of the other people originally involved in Tesla. They realized that if they were going to get people to buy these things, they had to set up a charging network and they had to make it good. So Tesla has this super, super good charging network. I think they have like 50,000 stalls all over the world where you can charge your car.
00:11:24
Speaker
and it makes it super convenient to do a road trip. You have to wait a little bit longer, but that's definitely a reason to consider a Tesla or consider maybe investing the Tesla over something else. They own the cars and they own the fueling network.
00:11:40
Speaker
And again, I'm not a techie like you, but I have heard recently that many of the other... So when the charging stations first came out or starting to get built and put in place, there were many different kinds. So depending on what kind of port, and if I'm saying it wrong, let me know, but whatever kind of port you had in your car, it may or may not fit that particular charging station.
00:12:03
Speaker
So what I think is happening now is because Tesla was the forerunner or the front runner for this technology, many of the other previously different types of charging stations are now using the format or the actual plug design.
00:12:21
Speaker
that Tesla uses for their own cars or at least making different hookups that can then fit one type of charger to a different kind of port in a particular car.
00:12:34
Speaker
Yeah, yes, that's exactly correct. It's called the North American Charging Standard, which is kind of a pretentious name that Tesla chose. But every other manufacturer except Stellantis, who is like Chrysler, has agreed to adopt that. And in the meantime, like what you said, David, they're offering adapters so you can use their charging network, even if your car doesn't have the NACS port on it currently. But it's pretty cool if you think about it as a Tesla investor.
00:13:01
Speaker
That's great because Tesla's going to charge these people. I think you have to pay a monthly fee if you don't have a Tesla to use this. Even if you don't buy a Tesla, Tesla's still going to make a little bit of money off your EV purchase. How did you research and decide on the specific Tesla model that you got? What model did you get? It is a Model Y. Okay. How did you decide on the Model Y?
00:13:26
Speaker
Yeah, actually, I don't think I did decide on it. I did not want the Model Y. I wanted the Model 3. I'm more of a car person where the Model Y is like a, what do they call it? A CUV, like a miniature SUV thing. I actually think it's a little bit ugly and I don't like that style of vehicle. But when I went to the Tesla store with my kids and they sat in the backseat of both, like, dad, you have to get the Y. We are not doing a road trip in the backseat of the three because there's no legroom back then.
00:13:55
Speaker
back there. So I'm like, okay. So you're outvoted. I was outvoted. I was outvoted
Personal Experience with Tesla Ownership
00:14:01
Speaker
by my shoulder. And were there any, at the time that you purchased the model, why were there any financial incentives or financial considerations that influenced that decision? Not necessarily the why, but any EV.
00:14:15
Speaker
Yeah, so there's three things. There's a federal tax credit of $7,500. There's a Colorado tax credit of $5,000. And then with Tesla, if you didn't order it, and I'll back up, there's two ways to buy a Tesla. You can either order it from their website and the exact one you want shows up at their store and you go pick it up.
00:14:36
Speaker
or you can find one in inventory that's already there. Often, they give inventory discounts. This one was $4,000 off. I think it would have been $52,000 if I wouldn't have had the discount. It was $48,000 with the $4,000 inventory discount. All right. Can you quickly run over those numbers again? Yeah. The car would have been $52,000 if I would have ordered it.
00:15:02
Speaker
Exactly the way I wanted it. I got two options on it. It's red because Mindy wouldn't let me have a white car, which is what I wanted. And it's got a trailer hitch on it. So it would have been $52,000. But with a $4,000 discount, it was $48,000. Then I got a $7,500 discount from the feds. It's actually going to be a tax credit when we file our taxes. So that brings it down to $40,500.
00:15:28
Speaker
And then with the $5,000 state Colorado incentive, it was $35,500 plus taxes, registration, all that other stuff. So that did not include the taxes and registration. So I don't know, what, $40,000? Just over $40,000 maybe?
00:15:45
Speaker
Yeah, I think 40 is a good way to ballpark it, yep. Instead of his market, that's not a bad deal considering you can't get even a three-year-old used car seemingly for under $23,000 to $27,000 to get a brand new
00:16:00
Speaker
a brand new electric, not even the entry model Tesla for just over 40. That sounds fairly reasonable, relatively speaking. $40,000 is still a lot of money, but if you're in the market for a vehicle anyway, that's definitely worth taking a look at.
00:16:17
Speaker
It is a lot of money, and it was very weird to spend that much money on a car. The previous new car we bought was a 2010 Mazda 5, which is a great vehicle. And that thing, we just gave it to our mutual friend, Amberlee. You know Amberlee, right? I do.
00:16:32
Speaker
Yeah, so we gave that to her, but that thing had over 200,000 miles on it, still running great. So that was the last new car we bought, and I think it was $17,000. Can you describe the first day with the Tesla? What stood out?
00:16:51
Speaker
49 miles into it, I broke the windshield on it, so that wasn't too great. I don't know. That's a great question, David, and the answer is probably more anticlimactic than it should be. We already have another EV called a Bolt.
00:17:06
Speaker
So I knew some of the nuances of driving it. One of the things with an EV is you don't really have to use the brake most of the time because the motors kick in. They turn into an alternator and charge up the battery, which has the effect of stopping the car when you let off the gas. So that was pretty interesting. But yeah, it was also frustrating. My second drive ever, this, I don't know, some tool flew out of the back of a car and hit the windshield. Yeah.
00:17:35
Speaker
It's not good. A Tesla windshield is not cheap, which I'm sure we'll talk about some of the negatives of owning a Tesla. And one of them is a windshield. And if you have to get the thing repaired, it can be painful and painfully expensive. So right off the bat, you're filled with joy. And then next thing you're like, ah, why, why today?
00:17:57
Speaker
Yeah, and it was a hard hit to like, wham, it actually, it actually scared me. I'm like, wow, what was that? And I don't tailgate people. I drive like a, uh, I drive very conservatively. I drive slow and give people lots of distance. So I don't know how this thing even hit the windshield. I think it might've been like a, uh, it was a work truck and I think it was like a socket from like a wrench. Did they stop or did they have any, did they even have any idea that it happened? I don't think they had any idea.
00:18:27
Speaker
All right, so you live in Longmont and I don't know what the infrastructure is there for electric vehicles. Now, are you, can you describe like, you said you already have one electric vehicle, the Bolt. So you're already accustomed to the charging and maybe charging stations in your local area. Did the having an additional electric vehicle
00:18:51
Speaker
hinder or create any additional inconvenience, or can you explain what that's like as far as having to charge two electric vehicles? Yeah, so it would have. I'll back up a second. One thing we did with our house is I put a bunch of solar panels on there a couple years ago and I put as many as would fit on my roof, which was about twice my annual production, which Colorado allows you to do.
00:19:15
Speaker
I did it myself, or else it would have cost a small fortune. I love the idea of solar panels, but as a financial decision, they're not worth it, especially if you're paying someone to do it. But as an aside, and that's my aside, it would have been laborious if I wouldn't have installed another charger. We had one for our bolt, but it was a slow charger, so it charges at about three to four miles an hour, and I could use it for the Tesla.
00:19:42
Speaker
But that's not always ideal if we both happen to be doing a lot of driving at the same time. So I installed a high speed charger, which gets like, I think about 30 miles per hour in charging speed. So we just plug it in when we get home. And that's pretty much it. It's much, much, much better. This is probably overrated. It might sound a little ridiculous, David, but it's very good not having to go to gas stations. I don't know what it is, but I just hate going to gas stations.
00:20:08
Speaker
privileged, weird thing to say, but not having to go to gas stations is a big improvement of happiness in my life. My ideal life would be that I just didn't have to own a car at all, so I wouldn't have to charge or go to a gas station, but if I have to drive, this is a good compromise.
00:20:27
Speaker
Mm-hmm. And you've had the car now for how long? Let's see, October, November, December, January, four months. Four months. And four months in, and knowing you, you probably read the owner's manual front to back. What are your top three features that you love most about the Tesla?
00:20:47
Speaker
So David, I'm not one of those people who goes and starts their car up in the morning because they can't sit in a cold car for five minutes. I realize I'm being a little bit snarky there, but man, being cold is good for you, like cold plunges and all that.
00:21:02
Speaker
One of the things that EVs, there's a reason I'm telling you this, EVs suffer a little bit in the cold. The batteries take a hit, the battery chemistry just doesn't work at all as well if it's cold. So you can pull up the Tesla app on your phone and say, hey, car, I'm leaving at 730. And what it does is it warms up the batteries, so the batteries operate better, but it also warms up the cap. And I'm like, you know, I'm not one of those types of people who would go and warm the car.
00:21:29
Speaker
But the car is just doing this for me because I warmed up the batteries and it's pretty good. We had a cold spell and you get into the car and it's 70 degrees in there. So that's super nice. Number two might just be the driving experience. It's super smooth and quiet. There's hardly any road noise. It's just a very
00:21:49
Speaker
I'm not a luxury person, so maybe I'm getting a little soft, David. Feel free to call me out. You'll have to throw me in the ocean or something next time I come to visit you. But it is nice. It's quiet. Like our old car, the 2010 Mazda, you could barely have a conversation at highway speed because the tire noise and the engine noise were overwhelming.
00:22:09
Speaker
And he asked me for my top three. I'll say it's a tie between not having to go to gas stations and just the infotainment system. So it's got a super good sound system and it's got all kinds of maps and all kinds of other fancy things built into the car. So you tell it where you're going to go and you can you can talk to the car and it just pulls it up on the map and said, OK, here it is. Go here.
00:22:34
Speaker
One of the big negative things might have been the FSD. I suppose you're going to ask me about negatives, so we could talk about that when we get to that point. Do you have a name for your Tesla or do you have a theme song? Every time you get in, it plays.
00:22:48
Speaker
I have a name for it. The name is 2012 because that's when I bought the Tesla stock. I'm a money nerd, David, so I actually did the calculation. I did not actually sell Tesla stock to buy the Tesla, but if I would, the Tesla would have cost me $355.
00:23:09
Speaker
That's how much I would have spent on the Tesla stock back in 2012, and that's how much it's appreciated to afford the car at that point. So a little bit over 100X at that time because the Tesla stock was worth a little bit more. So the car is 2012. Well, I think that sounds like a very justifiable purchase, though.
00:23:28
Speaker
Yes, my kids wanted to name it something else, and I think it might have been a little bit profane or edgy, so I denied that request. I'm like, girls, you got to stop watching YouTube or whatever you're watching. This isn't good. You sure it's not the fatherly influence that's leading that?
00:23:44
Speaker
Yeah, I think you're right, David. I just blamed YouTube for my own shortcomings. Oh my goodness. You've got great kids. Taking a step back, how do you perceive the impact of driving a Tesla on the environment?
Environmental Impact of EVs
00:24:02
Speaker
I know you for a while. I don't necessarily know you as a tree hugger. That's not how I would
00:24:09
Speaker
characterize you, but I would characterize you as conscious and aware. So how do you perceive the impact of driving a Tesla on the environment? And did that have any role in you actually purchasing one?
00:24:25
Speaker
It did. I care about that stuff, hence the solar panels in my house. I'm not going to bring it up and try to indoctrinate people unless they ask me. But with an EV, an EV actually is more environmentally intensive to build than a gas car because of all the mining that
00:24:46
Speaker
has to go into the lithium. So they say with an electric car, it usually takes about 18 months after purchase to break even from an environmental standpoint. And the reason is it's much more efficient to run an EV versus a gas car. And sometimes people will throw the coal argument out. They'll say, well, I get all my electricity from coal. So therefore, the EV isn't solving anything. But
00:25:15
Speaker
In EV, I'm going to be a little bit nerdy here. In EV is about 90% efficient with its energy use, which is pretty incredible. Do you know how efficient a gas engine is, David, like what percentage of the energy contained in a gallon of fuel is actually used to move the car? 30%.
00:25:34
Speaker
You're close. It's actually a little bit less than that. It's between 20% and 25%. Oh, wow. So even if you have to use coal, a coal plant is efficient. A power plant recaptures their heat. And by the way, a gas car, all that waste is in the form of heat.
00:25:49
Speaker
So a fossil fuel plant will reclaim the heat and turn that into energy as well. So they're much more efficient than a gas engine. So even if you are a burning coal, well, it's not ideal. And EV is going to be a little bit better for the environment if you care about such things. The other thing I'll say is there's a company now. There's multiple companies that are doing this. But J.B. Straubel, the guy I talked about earlier, he has a company called Redwood Materials.
00:26:16
Speaker
And they can actually recycle about 95 percent of the contents of the battery. So the lithium, the nickel and all those materials that you have to mine, they can take out and put into a new battery. And that same company is actually building a cathode plant to take the stuff out of old batteries and rebuild them into new batteries right there, which is pretty cool. I like that a lot. I don't like
00:26:42
Speaker
My stuff, David, you asked me about the tree hugger thing and my views probably come more from an efficiency standpoint. I don't like waste and I just think it's so cool that when you take your foot off the gas of the Tesla that it takes the energy from stopping and puts it right back into the battery. When you go up a mountain, it takes a lot of electricity but that
00:27:02
Speaker
When we drive the mountains here, you go down and the battery's at the same level as it was like 50 miles ago because it's recaptured all that energy from the top. I'm not sure why that excites me. Probably a little bit more than it should, but I like the idea that I'm wasting less than I need to. How do you balance that efficiency and caring about the environment with
00:27:27
Speaker
what I understand to be an upfront cost of producing the electric vehicles. Just recently, 25 counties in California sued Tesla for something like violating environmental practices. And in part of that article that I read, it lists Tesla as number 89 on the
00:27:49
Speaker
100 most toxic companies or something like that. So it's interesting to have the conversation of like, I bought a Tesla, and here are the benefits to the environment. But yet there's this other narrative from before, like in the production side of it, and Tesla as a company as a whole, that's not as rosy. How do you balance that from an individual standpoint?
00:28:09
Speaker
Yeah, you're absolutely right, David. To produce anything is going to take energy, and you think of all these thousands of cars on barges. Those barges are one of the biggest fossil fuel polluters in the world, the cargo ships that have to transport these things. And to produce a car takes a tremendous amount of energy. You think of all the smelting metal and mining, and it's crazy.
00:28:33
Speaker
Along the same lines, the best car is no car. If I could get through life with a bike and being able to walk and being able to take public transportation, that would just be spectacular. That's my dream life. Whenever I travel, I try to be car free actually, just be in a place that's walkable, which is not so much for the environmental part of it. I just think it's so pleasant to be able to walk or bike everywhere and take a look around and absorb your environment.
00:29:01
Speaker
But the fact of my life with two kids and a busy schedule and sports and everything is I have to have a car to get around. There's no way around it. So this is evil, but it's the least evil in my view. I would know if I would characterize it as evil. That's the last word I would think of when I think about Carl Jensen.
00:29:22
Speaker
But I was just curious because you're a smart guy and I want to know your opinion on those things. And I know you've done the research and given much more thought to that than I have. So thank you for sharing that. I read a Forbes article recently and it was talking about the growth of the EV sales in the United States. And in last year, 2023, the eclipsed 1 million electric vehicle sales, not Tesla in particular, but the market.
00:29:45
Speaker
So, more than a million electric cars were sold in the United States last year, and that's expected to grow, but car companies are cutting production of the EVs because they don't see the demand being
Future of the EV Market
00:29:59
Speaker
there. For example, the F-150 Lightning, which got a lot of people excited because the F-150 is, I think it might be the number one selling vehicle in the country, but to have an electric version of that excited a lot of people.
00:30:12
Speaker
But now Ford is saying that they are going to cut their production of the F-150 Lightning by 50% this year in 2024. How do you see the long-term how this is going to play out as far as the growth? Again, you've done the research. You probably have your own personal opinions based on being a smart guy. And I would like to hear what you think the electric vehicle market will look like in five to 10 years, practically.
00:30:37
Speaker
I think it's inevitable the world moves to EVs. Whether people like it or not, Tesla is working on their cheap car now, which is supposed to start around $25,000. Already, you alluded to it earlier, the Tesla price isn't that bad. To buy a Model Y, which is a good family hauler, is cheaper than the average price of a new vehicle in the US, which I think is close to $50,000.
00:31:02
Speaker
So, the Tesla might be a little bit cheaper or probably kind of equivalent to similar vehicles, but it's much cheaper after that.
00:31:12
Speaker
Whenever something comes out, Tony Seeb with a Stanford professor, I was reading about him, whenever a solution comes out that's a lot cheaper, society inevitably will move to it. And I think that's how it will be for EVs now. I think originally they were perceived as a premium product and in many ways they still are, like all these manufacturers that are
00:31:36
Speaker
making them know like Audi and Porsche, a lot of them are over $100,000 and that's part of a perception problem. But when something becomes cheaper, people will flock to it. I also think there's so much misinformation around EVs that this drives me a little crazy because there was a story this morning actually about a Tesla recall and
00:31:58
Speaker
that they had another one a month or two ago. I got probably 10 different people talk to Mindy or I about this recall. They're like, oh my god, your car is recalled? Are you worried about this?
00:32:08
Speaker
And unfortunately, people don't read the article because if they would have, part of the recall, it was an over the air recall, which means they send a software update. They had to make the font bigger on one of the warnings and that was the main point of the recall. I'm like, well, did you read it? I think if you would have read it, it wouldn't have been, you would have realized it wasn't that big of a deal. And I get, what else have I heard? You'll freeze to death if you own an EV because the batteries don't work in the cold.
00:32:38
Speaker
It's going to start on fire even though EVs actually catch on fire much less than fuel cars. There's a lot of misinformation around them, but I think if people just went to the level of data and thought about it from that standpoint, I think it would be a pretty good solution for a lot of people. Not everyone. There's some situations where an EV is not a good solution, but most people drive 30 miles a day and an EV is just great for that.
00:33:08
Speaker
So I think they're going to take over. I don't know when EV sales will hit 50%. I think they're already like 25% in California, right? California's obviously the leader, but they're huge. But then I go to a place like I was in St. Louis, and I always kind of pay attention because I'm obsessed with EVs. And I think I saw two EVs the whole time there, even though we were in an urban place, and we probably did about 10 to 12 miles of walking.
00:33:37
Speaker
So yeah, David, I think they will take over, but it's going to take a while for people to get over some of the connotations. And some of those are justified, by the way, like old EVs did not do well in the cold. And we could get into that, but I don't think you want to have an in-depth discussion about heat pumps or resistance eating.
00:33:55
Speaker
And some had super bad battery degradation soon into their ownership, but that's like the generation one of them. And now they're much better than that, but those feelings still circulate. But yeah, so they will take over. It's only a matter of time the US will be dragged along by the rest of the world.
00:34:16
Speaker
regardless of if it wants to or not. China has huge incentives to move towards EVs and so does much of Europe. The US is a little bit behind, but we'll get there.
00:34:29
Speaker
Yeah, so I'm still waiting for the flying cars that Back to the Future 2 predicted, even though they're about, what, nine years late? Did they predict flying cars for 2015 and now we still don't have them? I think they are, but they're coming along. I don't know if you follow the EVATOL space, which stands for electric, vertical, and takeoff landing vehicle.
00:34:49
Speaker
They're not really cars. They don't have wheels, but they're a little like helicopter thing that you could potentially take off from your front yard. Have you at this point bought stock in whatever company you just talked about and then 15 years from now, we're going to be having another recording about how you're flying over Longmont?
00:35:07
Speaker
I have not bought stock in any of them, but if you watch the Summer Olympics, supposedly one of the companies is going to debut their Evital. They're going to have flights from like Charles de Gaulle Airport to wherever the venue is that the Olympics are being held at. So you'll see them. You'll ride in one this decade, David. I can pretty much guarantee that.
Elon Musk's Influence and Controversies
00:35:27
Speaker
Now, do you know if Elon Musk has anything to do with that technology? Have you seen the movie Iron Man? Have you seen those series? I have. He's in one of those movies for like a second, and what should we call it? Robert Downey Jr. talks to Elon Musk about an electric jet, so Elon Musk has talked about it, but I don't think they're actively working on any version of it.
00:35:52
Speaker
Now, I know you've been interested in Tesla, but you've also been interested in Elon Musk over the years. How has your perception of Elon Musk changed since you first got into the space mentally and emotionally and academically, and then seeing some of the major moves that he has been a part of over the last decade at least? How has your perception of Elon changed?
00:36:15
Speaker
Oh man, so I still think he's a smart engineer. People dismiss him for that, but if you read his biographies, like he understands rocket science. Thomas Mueller, the guy who developed the engines for SpaceX rockets has sung Elon Musk's praises about his contributions to the development of SpaceX and specifically the rocket engine technology, which is pretty amazing. There is a book where
00:36:41
Speaker
Elon Musk did not want to start SpaceX. They went to Russia to try to buy decommissioned ICBM, which are missiles, to launch stuff into space. And the Russians dismissed him. So on the flight, he pulled out on the flight back from Russia as the plane was taking off from Moscow. He pulls out a book on like rocket engine technology and starts reading it and shows it to all the other people who are there saying, hey, the Russians aren't going to sell us their rockets. So we're going to make our own. And I'm going to start studying this now.
00:37:11
Speaker
Elon Musk is a brilliant engineer. He's a tough boss who motivates people in a lot of the wrong ways. If he didn't do that, I think Tesla probably wouldn't be here. They would have gone bankrupt when the Model 3 was launching. He's a tough person. You don't want to get on the wrong side of him.
00:37:30
Speaker
I don't appreciate his new – the last thing you want to see if you own stock in a company is the founder strain into politics no matter which side you're on because that's going to alienate half of the potential base to purchase your product.
00:37:48
Speaker
I was looking at his tweets yesterday, actually, and they're all about hot button political issues. So I kind of wish he would keep his mouth shut about that and the border would rein him in. But I still think the thing I think about Elon Musk, whenever I hear someone say something bad about him or express her hatred for him,
00:38:08
Speaker
I can understand what they're talking about, but what I would respond with is everything aside, consider his accomplishments and his negatives. Is Elon Musk being on Earth like a net positive or net negative for the planet and for society? I think
00:38:28
Speaker
He is a positive because what he's done for space, like with what's going on with Russia, if there wasn't SpaceX, the US would be having a pretty hard time. The United Launch Alliance, when SpaceX's competitors bought their rocket engines from Russia, which isn't an option right now. And what he's done, if you care about green stuff and the movement to electrification, I can't think of anyone else who has done more for that. Maybe Vladimir Putin, but in a bad way.
00:38:57
Speaker
cutting Western Europe off from fossil fuels and forcing them to really put up more turbines and drive towards electrification faster. But I think Elon Musk has done a lot of good for the world. But yeah, I just wish he would shut up and stay off Twitter or X or whatever he called it. I really wish he would have
00:39:16
Speaker
bought that either because it's distracting from his mission. He's always said his core mission is to not just bring up Tesla and make that be a big EV manufacturer, but to force the world to move towards EVs and
00:39:31
Speaker
when you become divisive like that, you're just going to turn people off. I could think of multiple people in my own life who either had orders on Teslas or had planned to buy one and have since said, hell no, I'm not going to support that person. So his politics and his sometimes insane rants on Twitter does not do any good to his self-proclaimed core mission of saving the world from fossil fuels.
00:39:58
Speaker
Now, I think arguably Elon Musk is probably one of the most, if not the most impactful CEOs or company owners in the world. And so what do you think about Delaware, the Delaware judges, a decision to throw out is $56 billion pay package. Yeah, that's interesting. So way back, I think this was 27 or 2018, the board came up with a pay package for Elon Musk.
00:40:26
Speaker
where he had to hit 10 different performance goals to earn this. So he was getting paid zero unless they hit these performance goals. And the thing about the whole thing is it was put up for a shareholder vote as well. So I think it passed by like,
00:40:43
Speaker
almost 80%. It was right around 80%. I think one of the things the judge said was that the board was too friendly to Elon Musk. I can get behind that, like his brothers on the board and probably other yes people who are going to be friendly to him. But the fact that the whole thing was put to the shareholders for a vote
00:41:05
Speaker
it doesn't seem valid. I'm in Musk's side on this. The other thing is the stock has gone up way more. It's outperformed the indices by a large margin since this earnings thing was put in place. There hasn't been any injury to shareholders. Like I said before, I actually think Tesla would not be here today if it wasn't for him and some of his bad traits too, but driving people to
00:41:32
Speaker
sleep on the factory floor and get this work done. And this is just a superficial view of it. I know the thing was 200 pages long, the judge's decision, and I have not read through that. But I think on the surface, it seems kind of bad. I'm also kind of angry that I think the attorney gets 10%. So someone made $5 billion off this class action lawsuit. And the guy who brought this whole thing up
00:41:59
Speaker
was a drummer and a metal band who owned seven shares of Tesla. This guy who owned seven shares is a cause that Elon must have to give up $55 billion. I'm sure it'll be appealed. I like that structure where he's not paid unless the company performs because
00:42:16
Speaker
It's on him versus, which would you rather have, David? A CEO who gets paid nothing unless the company performs, both from a stock perspective and from just the volume of cars. And I forgot what the other eight tranches were of his performance thing. Or a CEO who they might be paying 200 million bucks a year. I'm thinking of the old Yahoo CEO who was paid, I think, $250 million a year. And what is Yahoo now? No one cares.
00:42:46
Speaker
So, yeah, on that side, I think I support Musk based on what I know now. He did what he said he was going to do and he got a large amount of money, but I made a lot of money too off the stock. Yeah, I think in general, I have an issue with the court stepping in to try to change the decision of what's already supposed to be established as a good decision-making process or at least a legal one, which is if you're a legal company and you have a legal board and if you
00:43:13
Speaker
and you've created yourself in such and there's steps along the way, legal steps along the way to make sure that those entities are created legally, then any decision made by that should be good as long as the decision itself isn't illegal.
00:43:28
Speaker
So, I didn't read the 200 pages, you said, of the judge's ruling, but just on the face of it, it seems kind of iffy. And yes, I agree that if you're in charge of a company and that company does well, you should be compensated for it, not necessarily based on what the average American salary is, but on your own performance and what you're responsible for. Because what a lot of people don't understand is
00:43:54
Speaker
Yes, CEOs get paid a lot of money or they can get paid a lot of money, but they're also responsibility for the downside of these companies too. So they're all under significant stress and it's up to them whether or not they succeed or fail.
00:44:10
Speaker
Unless you're one of the many CEOs out there that comes in and everybody decided they got the new CEO and then for whatever reason, eight months later, they're leaving and then they get the multi-million dollar package for basically doing nothing at a company. So I think those are the situations that need to be investigated, not the ones where
00:44:28
Speaker
You're the creator of a company. You, because of your actions and decision making and the people that you brought on board, you become a ridiculously successful company. And now some judges saying you can't profit from that. I think that's out of line, but I'm sure more details are known than I know. And we'll see how it all plays out. But on the face of it, it looks kind of sketchy to me on the side of Delaware.
00:44:53
Speaker
Yes. Say what you will about Elon Musk. He has lots of issues. I think if you read his biography, he doesn't get a lot of sleep.
00:45:02
Speaker
I'm not exactly sure what's going on with that man, but he also started the two businesses that are probably the most hard thing to start up like rockets, which is very, very difficult. You're at the edge of engineering with limits and stresses on vehicles and all that in a car company. Like no one in their right mind would want to start either of those two things up and the thing. And he's done two of them. And Tesla, he took over from someone else, but Tesla in his current form, he's responsible for it. Like Tesla was nothing before he became involved.
00:45:32
Speaker
SpaceX was all his idea and I don't know who came up with the idea of landing rockets, but these are incredible achievements that might go underappreciated. What would be your advice to anyone considering purchasing an EV or Tesla in particular as a vehicle, not as a stock?
Considerations for Potential EV Buyers
00:45:52
Speaker
Yeah, make sure it's right for you. I heard a story from a friend about someone he knew who had purchased a Tesla just because they wanted one. This person lives in an apartment building, so they drive to a Tesla supercharger, drop it off, and Uber back to their apartment building to charge it.
00:46:11
Speaker
I don't know why anyone would want to do that. Like I alluded to before, David, I think an EV is a great solution for most people. You don't even have to install a fancy charger in your garage. You can just plug it into your outlet every night and it'll get probably about 12 hours, maybe 40 to 48 miles of charge over that.
00:46:33
Speaker
Uh, so you don't even need the fancy charger, but just make sure it fits your lifestyle. Like if you're driving, I talked to someone who did sales and she was driving maybe
00:46:43
Speaker
up to 1,000 miles a week and she bought a Model Y. She was spending a lot of time at Superchargers. If you're on a road trip, it's going to take you some time to sit there. It definitely takes longer than fueling, not that much longer, but if you're driving 50,000 miles a year, you're going to be sitting around to chargers a lot. For most people, I think it's
00:47:03
Speaker
probably a good solution. I would also check maybe electricity rates if you're in Hawaii where electric rates are I think over 40 cents a kilowatt hour. It's not going to be such a great decision. Thinking on an outcast there is pretty expensive too but it's not going to be the slam dunk like it would be for
00:47:21
Speaker
other parts of the country. I'd also say look at what your state incentives are because some state incentives are super good. I think the used EV credit starts at under $24,000, but with a lot of the used Model 3s, you can actually get them for that much. You might be able to get
00:47:42
Speaker
I used Model 3 for well under $20,000. I think I got away from your original question, but I would just say don't buy an EV just for the sake of buying an EV because you think a Tesla's cool. Do a little bit of homework and make sure it's actually going to fit your lifestyle. Also, don't get it because you think it's going to drive itself.
00:48:03
Speaker
Well, they do have that software now. It does well sometimes. They'll also occasionally try to run someone over it. I don't know, David. Maybe the person that tried to kill was evil and the car knew more than me, but I don't think that was the case. Car, what are you doing? You can't run that construction worker over. He's right there.
00:48:22
Speaker
and owning your Tesla, have you run into any inconveniences or hidden costs? Ooh, that's a good question. I'm trying to think if there's anything I don't like about it or a hidden cost. Our kid, we have a bolt and someone ran into her with a bolt.
00:48:38
Speaker
And his company was USAA. And I don't know much about them, but they gave us a list of probably 20 body shops to get the thing fixed. And out of those 20 body shops, zero would work on it because they saw it was an EV. And they just said, we don't work on those. I didn't probe. I'm not sure why, but they wouldn't fix it. So we finally found one that would work on it. And with a Tesla, it's even worse if you need a windshield.
00:49:01
Speaker
I did get mine fixed. It was fixable, but the guy's like, yeah, if you ever have to replace this, no one is going to do it except for Tesla. You're beholden to them for a lot of that bodywork stuff too, I think. If they're a monopoly, they can charge whatever they want. I think a new windshield is $800 to $1,000 for the Cybertruck. A windshield is $2,000. It's supposed to be
00:49:24
Speaker
more durable, but you should expect to pay more. The other thing I have, the luxury of David is we just paid for the thing outright, so we don't have the full insurance on it. Teslas do cost more to insure. I see a lot of people paying like $3,000 or $4,000 a year to insure, which is something I would never do because I just have the minimal insurance. I don't know what it even is, maybe $300 or $400 a year just for
00:49:50
Speaker
whatever the minimal requirement is, but if you can't afford to buy the thing outright, expect to pay a lot more for insurance and maybe research that before you buy one. It tells us a luxury thing. If you just want an EV, you could get a Nissan Leaf, or we have a Bolt, which is a great car.
00:50:08
Speaker
not too great for road trips, but it's going to satisfy, I think most use cases for how most people drive. So yeah, I don't know if I answered your question there, David, but do your research first. And if you really want to Tesla, maybe hold out for the cheaper one. And so probably be out, not for another couple of years, but they will have a cheaper model, which is supposed to be under $30,000. We'll see if that actually happens or not. But that is the rumor.
00:50:35
Speaker
Now I've owned a 2015 hybrid Prius, bought it and now my daughter owns it. I gave it to her when she turned 18. But I did notice some drop off in battery power and as far as the charging capabilities and all that stuff, which is natural for these types of batteries, especially the older ones.
00:50:56
Speaker
And i believe tesla has a correct me if i'm wrong tesla has an eight year warranty on their batteries. But in your research have you is that about accurate is that about the year that you need to start looking replacing.
00:51:09
Speaker
I don't think I'll ever have to replace the battery and I think the way the warranty works is it has to maintain a certain amount of charge or a certain capacity after all those years. The way batteries work is they drop off a lot initially and then it kind of levels out. Right now, and I haven't even looked at it, but right now is probably one it will drop off the most.
00:51:31
Speaker
There's certain ways to maintain a battery. If you charge it to 100% and you do it on a supercharger, which is the super high speed Tesla charger out in the wild that you can stop at, you're going to put a lot of stress on the battery and the battery might not make it to 200,000 miles. But there's people who just charge at home
00:51:51
Speaker
They keep it to 80% all the time and they have 250,000 miles on the car and the car still has like 85% of its battery capacity. I'm pretty careful about that so I don't think it'll ever be an issue. I think other parts of the car will probably
00:52:08
Speaker
fail before the battery ever does or there'll just be some new battery technology that makes the car worth trading in or getting rid of in 10 years. But yeah, I don't ever anticipate having to do anything with the batteries. There's new battery chemistries out now called lithium iron phosphate.
00:52:26
Speaker
that are even way better with a degradation. You can charge them up to 100% and they actually recommend you do that. Their degradation is much less over time, although you have a little bit less energy density with those. The thing about EVs, David, maybe the big point is we're still so early on these. By 2030, you're going to be able to get something superior to what I have now and it's going to be cheaper because the technology is moving so quickly and something better is right around the corner all the time.
00:52:56
Speaker
Well, you lost me about halfway through that with all those multi-syllable words. I didn't get the gist and I appreciate that. One thing that surprised me whenever I actually just came across this sort of haphazardly, a few years ago I moved to San Diego and I had to re-register my 2016 Toyota Avalon. It's a hybrid, it does great, great car.
00:53:17
Speaker
And I think, if I remember correctly, it was like $350 for a year, maybe a little under, something like that, ballpark. And when I was there, the guy said, do you have a Tesla? And I was just like, I'm not even sure how it came up in conversation. But he said, if you had a Tesla, it would cost you $1,000 a year to register here in California. So to me, that's a very practical difference. As far as an expense, something definitely to be aware of,
00:53:47
Speaker
if you can get, maybe you don't get sticker shock at the purchase, but when you go to register it, an extra thousand dollars might be tacked onto your bill, whether you buy it at a dealer or a secondhand or whatever, and you just take it into a DMV or a kiosk to get it registered. So I would definitely do the homework for registration cost.
00:54:08
Speaker
Yeah, this might bring up, I'm not sure why they do that, but one issue with EV is you're not buying gas, so therefore you're not paying taxes, which go to maintain the roads. So a lot of states, including Colorado, I think, have instituted extra fees for EVs, which is completely justifiable because I'm using those exact same roads, so therefore, and I'm not buying gas, I'm not paying those taxes, so there totally should be a way for me to pay more and that should be mandated because
00:54:34
Speaker
I'm using the same infrastructure and I wonder if that's why that thing, why they have that for California and if it's a one-time thing or if it's every time. Could be, I'm not certain, but that definitely threw me three times the price to register at least for year one. Wow. I'm not sure if that goes again. I don't know if that's every year or if that's just the initial registration and then maybe it's a fraction of that going forward, but it's definitely not an insignificant amount of money.
00:55:00
Speaker
Yeah. As far as your upgrades, your infotainment upgrades, do you have to pay for those or is that automatic?
00:55:10
Speaker
So they have a free version, and then you can pay $10 a month if you want map data. So it has maps on there, and it'll map it out to wherever you want to go. But if you want real-time traffic data, that's the word I'm looking for, you have to pay extra for that. And if you don't pay extra, the music options are limited, like now that I pay extra.
00:55:33
Speaker
I can punch in any song I want by any musician and it'll pop up there. And I think there's some other things it includes, but those were the two main things for me. Okay. So if I'm thinking about buying a Tesla and I don't yet have the ability to charge it at my house,
00:55:50
Speaker
Earlier in our conversation, you said it doesn't make a lot of sense financially to put solar panels on your house. But if you don't have solar panels on your house or an extremely convenient way to charge, do you think that's like a blanket no to buying a Tesla?
00:56:04
Speaker
Oh, no. In most cases, it's far cheaper to buy electricity than it is to buy fuel. Here in Longmont, it's about 10 cents a kilowatt hour. To charge up my Tesla is like $7 and that gets me 300 miles of range. I don't think you can get anywhere near 300 miles of range for a fuel car
00:56:25
Speaker
But this brings up another interesting thing. You see people with perfectly fine cars saying, oh, I want to buy a Tesla to save money on the fuel. Well, the best car you have is the one you have that's paid off. You're never going to recoup those fuel costs. So I think the Tesla makes sense if you actually do need a new car, but you shouldn't go out and buy it for those reasons. But yeah, David, in most places, it's going to be far cheaper
00:56:48
Speaker
to charge it with the outlet in your garage that it is to buy fuel from the gas station. And like I said, you don't have to go to gas stations anymore, which is pretty cool. All right, Carl, thank you very much. I might be in the market for a car in the near future. And you've definitely said some things that might convince me to lean into the EV space. So I appreciate you taking the time to talk to me about it today. Yeah, sure, David. Thanks. It was good talking to you.
Conclusion and Carl's Work
00:57:13
Speaker
All right, Carl, if you're interested in Carl, if this is your first time hearing who Carl Jensen is, he knows a lot more about a lot of things other than just Teslas. You can check out his blog at 1500days.com. That's 1500, D-A-Y-S dot com, where you'll find dinosaurs and a lot of humor and a lot of smart people talk about money and life. So I highly recommend you check out his blog.
00:57:40
Speaker
And he's also got a podcast called Mile Hi-Fi, which I think you release about every like twice a week maybe, once a week at least. And you're on YouTube with that as well, so check him out. Carl, again, thank you so much and I look forward to hanging out with you again soon. Yeah, let's make a plan to meet up. Maybe I'll road trip the Tesla out to San Diego. All right. Thank you all for listening.