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S2 Episode 12: Do we have Free Will?
8 Plays7 months ago
Today we sit down with Kenan and discuss the themes of Free Will and the existence of luck.
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to Debatable Discussions podcast.
00:00:04
Speaker
Today we are joined by Kennan for an exciting episode about free will and determinism.
00:00:10
Speaker
Hello Kennan, it's great to have you with us and just first of all I'd like to make a quick introduction.
00:00:16
Speaker
Kennan was the president of the philosophy society at our school before and now he is on a gap year before he begins his university journey.
00:00:28
Speaker
Unfortunately so.
00:00:29
Speaker
Welcome everyone.
00:00:33
Speaker
Thank you for having me on here.
00:00:34
Speaker
I'm quite excited to get back into the debatable discussion as we did back in philosophy.
00:00:42
Speaker
So I'll let you guys leave the conversation and I'm looking forward to it.
Defining Free Will
00:00:46
Speaker
Thank you.
00:00:46
Speaker
So we'll start, first of all, what is free will?
00:00:49
Speaker
So free will and determinism will be up before today.
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Speaker
And there's a quick definition, free will is concept, the Christian concept, one might say that we have a choice of what to do in our lives and we can actually change it.
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Speaker
So if we don't really have a destiny, we can make our own.
00:01:06
Speaker
So use a cliche.
00:01:08
Speaker
I like to start by saying, what did you guys think?
00:01:10
Speaker
Do you think we have free will?
00:01:13
Speaker
I'm still something I still kind of contemplate because there's lots of aspects of life in which, you know, I think we walk around with the understanding that we have free will because a sense of responsibility for your actions.
00:01:26
Speaker
And, you know, we talk about, you know, being, you know, doing things and having the willpower to do things in itself, that in itself, that word.
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Speaker
you know, is synonymous with the idea of free will.
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Speaker
But I have, you know, there's lots of things like intuition.
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Speaker
I find that a really difficult thing to then kind of grasp because sometimes intuition is completely correct.
00:01:49
Speaker
And that kind of more than the probability and the mathematical probability of luck.
00:01:55
Speaker
So I don't know, I'm still on the fence about it.
00:01:58
Speaker
John, what are you...
Free Will and Science
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Speaker
I think first you have free will you sort of got to set the boundaries for how you're going to define it because you first you got to do within the realms of science so remember Ken you once made a point a while back that obviously we don't free will because we can't fly yes yeah yeah that's one of my favorite points still one of my favorite points
00:02:20
Speaker
because obviously, you know, surely that would be part of free will.
00:02:24
Speaker
However, I do think within the realms of nature, we have to an extent free will.
00:02:31
Speaker
However, there are so many external factors like obviously the law, which really doesn't infringe on our free will, but really influences us to say, well, I won't do that action.
00:02:43
Speaker
So whilst we have the will to think about doing anything,
00:02:46
Speaker
really impracticality, all these external influences, I believe, limits it.
00:02:52
Speaker
Yeah, I agree with you, John, that I think there is an element of free will that we have.
00:02:57
Speaker
I think we have free will in thought completely.
00:03:02
Speaker
But there are very many parents.
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Speaker
The law is one of them.
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Speaker
For example, I can...
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Speaker
I always like to give this example where you can do whatever you want.
00:03:11
Speaker
You can go and steal some chocolate from the shop, but if you get caught, then you're going to have to face the consequences.
Societal Influences on Free Will
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Speaker
And then you're probably going to think that's not worth it because it's only three pounds.
00:03:24
Speaker
But you can do that.
00:03:26
Speaker
And there's a question though, whether free will in thought relates to free will, or do we just...
00:03:34
Speaker
Do we actually have free will with all these deterrents around us?
00:03:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:38
Speaker
I think it's interesting actually the point, going back to your point, John, just before I move on to Diane, that talking about parameters.
00:03:43
Speaker
Now, I think that for me, that's one of the most troubling things about free will is because are you truly free if you are restricted by... Now, obviously, actual law is something which is an element of free will because man has created law.
00:03:58
Speaker
But in terms of natural law,
00:04:00
Speaker
That for me is troubling with free will because in, and that goes back to my previous point, which I made that, you know, I can't turn into a pigeon and fly, even if I really willed that to happen.
00:04:12
Speaker
So for me, that's where it troubles because if you look at the definition of free will as stated in the beginning, it's an ability to, if you really will to something, will to do something, you wish to do it, you should be able to do it.
00:04:25
Speaker
So I think that's interesting.
00:04:26
Speaker
But I think then, Diane, going on to your point, it's, again, it's such a difficult topic to kind of grasp your head around because you kind of got to work out, well, how free are you?
Determinism vs Free Will Debate
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Speaker
Because where I stand on your guys' point of it is your level of free will, I would argue, is probably more a level of determinism.
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Speaker
It's determinism with variation rather than
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Speaker
the absolute freedom because for me there's no kind of spectrum of freedom you're either free or you're unfree now there can be the illusion in which you know for instance prisoners in a prison have a sense of freedom in the sense that they can walk around the prison but they can't leave the like that do you understand the avenue so I think that's my take on that maybe controversial I don't know but yeah
00:05:24
Speaker
And moving on, actually, as well.
00:05:26
Speaker
Diane, you're a Christian, but in the Bible, I'm right in saying that they believe that we have free
Free Will in Religious Contexts
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will.
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Speaker
Yeah, so it's from... This is taken from Adam and Eve.
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Speaker
Sorry.
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From Adam and Eve in the Genesis when they eat the apple.
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So this is basically sort of the idea of them rebelling against God
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Speaker
means that they have this choice, they have the choice whether they want to eat the apple or not, and then gets transposed into us on earth having choice to do some actions or to not do some actions at the same time.
00:05:59
Speaker
But to what extent would you say that?
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Speaker
Because many scholars will say it's slightly contradictory to the god of classical theism.
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Speaker
Because if God did design us to have free will, then why did he do that in, let's say, an all loving world like he is?
00:06:16
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I mean, Canon or Deion, do you see any issues?
00:06:19
Speaker
I see your point there, John, because I think the biggest issue that we have with, when I say we, from an atheist or an agnostic perspective, is with free will in religion, and especially for Christians, the God of classical theism, is that
00:06:36
Speaker
The idea of omnipotence, if there's a sense that humans have omnipotence means all powerfulness.
00:06:43
Speaker
There's a sense that if you have the choice to do something in which God has no control over in the sense of being able to sin for many atheists and agnostics or non-believers in the God of classical atheism, it's a difficult thing to grasp.
00:06:57
Speaker
So Dan, how do you kind of
00:06:59
Speaker
handle that point i i use an analogy i see i see god as more of a mind reader so i i give this analogy every time it's like if let's say i ask you john think of a number between 1 and 50. i can't make a choice for you to think of 47 but the moment 47 comes to your mind i can see it
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Right.
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That's how I view it.
00:07:21
Speaker
I view it as more of a knowing.
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Speaker
Right.
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Speaker
I can't change what you do.
00:07:27
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Maybe I can influence what you do.
00:07:28
Speaker
So, for example, if I have, I don't know, 47 in the background or I, you know, I plan something, for example.
00:07:35
Speaker
So, like, for example,
00:07:38
Speaker
if I don't want you going, I don't know, let's say I don't want you to go out of the house today because you'd be in a car crash, whatever.
00:07:46
Speaker
I'd make it torrential rain.
00:07:48
Speaker
But I mean, you can still go.
00:07:49
Speaker
You'd be heavily deterred.
00:07:50
Speaker
But I see God as sort of planting things, if you know what I mean.
00:07:57
Speaker
Mind reader, I don't see it as a compulsion.
00:08:00
Speaker
That's how I deal with it, in a way.
00:08:03
Speaker
And do you think that, you know, as a Christian, do you feel more as a sense that, because I'm right, so you believe in free will.
00:08:14
Speaker
Yes, yes, yes.
00:08:15
Speaker
So do you feel then that having that kind of the idea of God in your head, in your, you know,
00:08:24
Speaker
in your day-to-day life do you feel that that is imposing on your free will because you're you feel constrained to you know maybe follow certain practices in christianity you may not 100 agree with i i don't really think so i think it's more like like the law if i mean if we can you know i think for me it's again it's more like like the actual law you can break if you want
00:08:49
Speaker
um you know we we break laws all the time really yeah frankly um worth knowingly or unknowingly in some countries you know you're not allowed to cross the street unless it's a it's a uh i don't know how to call it a crossing yeah yeah um so yeah all the time so um
00:09:14
Speaker
Yeah, that's how I view it as well.
00:09:15
Speaker
I view it as in, you know, I think about it, but at the same time, I also don't really, if I don't agree with something quite heavily, I don't subscribe to it, full stop.
00:09:26
Speaker
And do you think, you're supposed to be questioning me, but with free will, I think one of the biggest questions in which I find it is obviously whether you believe in determinism or free will, that obviously has an effect on how you lead your day-to-day
Determinism's Impact on Society
00:09:43
Speaker
life.
00:09:43
Speaker
Do you guys feel that if everyone subscribed to determinism and we just thought everything was, our life's already planned, past, future and present is already somewhere in the cosmic universe ready for us to just enter into.
00:09:58
Speaker
Do you think that would change people's behavior on a day-to-day life?
00:10:04
Speaker
Yeah, I think determinism would definitely because you see it when people are sort of things like, say things like, we're all going to die anyway.
00:10:13
Speaker
You only live once.
00:10:14
Speaker
So I think with determinism and especially the idea that you're going to have to do certain things inevitably, it makes you a lot less
00:10:26
Speaker
it definitely changes the way you are.
00:10:28
Speaker
Whereas if someone believes they have free will, you could definitely see how they'd be more of a, perhaps a more spontaneous individual.
00:10:35
Speaker
Just, because I think, it can almost be more of a part of philosophy, people have free will.
00:10:42
Speaker
in the sense that they don't mean it in too much of an academic sense perhaps, but they're like, I have free will, I'm just going to do whatever I feel like.
00:10:50
Speaker
So I think in perhaps modern culture, having that idea of your own personal philosophy of free will, it's quite liberating.
00:10:57
Speaker
What do you think of that?
00:10:59
Speaker
I agree and I think also if we all believed in the terms I feel people would stop trying so hard in some fields.
00:11:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:06
Speaker
I don't think we'd have this much advancement because everyone's like well I mean if MedHap is going to happen I'm not going to not going to get out of bed today.
00:11:14
Speaker
Whilst with free will you've got this sort of you know I can do I can make a real change and a positive impact.
00:11:19
Speaker
What do you think Adam?
00:11:21
Speaker
I think, yeah, I definitely agree with that because I think the reality is if everyone subscribed to determinism, people would become unmotivated.
00:11:29
Speaker
Because I think the beauty of free will, which is often overlooked because it's so ingrained into us as humans, whether it be an illusion or whether it be reality, it's up to you guys to decide.
00:11:42
Speaker
But I think that and it's the idea of having an ability to, you know,
00:11:46
Speaker
become successful or you know get that job that you really want to do having that ability that freedom of choice and will to do that is highly motivating but if someone sat you down you know the day you could understand you know english and said your life is already set out and everything that everything that's going to happen to you is already in motion you're just waiting to enter that period of time
00:12:10
Speaker
I think that would be, as Dayan said, catastrophic for society.
00:12:15
Speaker
I think we'd probably still be living in, well, in a cave, frankly.
00:12:20
Speaker
I don't even think we would be in a mud hut.
00:12:23
Speaker
It'd be in a state of limbo.
00:12:27
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:28
Speaker
I mean, and I think it's interesting if you just for a second look at free will from an animalistic perspective, because, you know, I think animals think they have free will.
00:12:37
Speaker
I mean, my cats, for example, do whatever they want when they want.
00:12:40
Speaker
I mean, you know, they're constrained by, you know, the doors of my house and when they get let outside.
00:12:45
Speaker
But, you know, apart from that.
00:12:47
Speaker
An animal doesn't, to our understanding or my understanding at least, doesn't think its life's determined for it.
00:12:54
Speaker
It just does what it wants.
00:12:55
Speaker
So I think it's interesting because when you look at these quite heavy philosophical topics and very open-ended questions about does free will exist, you have to draw in information from other avenues.
00:13:11
Speaker
For me, it's really interesting.
00:13:13
Speaker
And one of my favorite phrases actually about this is, it's in the dark night.
00:13:19
Speaker
Harvey Dent says it a lot, this coin, he flips his coin.
00:13:22
Speaker
He talks about making your own luck.
00:13:25
Speaker
Now, I think that's a really interesting phrase because it can be conceived in two ways.
00:13:30
Speaker
It can obviously be conceived in the sense of free will in the terms that you have the ability or you have some effect on luck.
00:13:40
Speaker
Now, a little bit paradoxical because obviously luck is, you know...
00:13:44
Speaker
The whole point is it's chance.
00:13:47
Speaker
But that phrase is interesting because you could also view that as determinism.
00:13:52
Speaker
Making your own luck is just a part of this infinite regressive cause and effect.
00:14:01
Speaker
It gets so complicated.
00:14:03
Speaker
I don't want to put you guys on a rabbit hole, but just to ponder with that idea.
00:14:08
Speaker
So what do you guys think about that phrase?
00:14:10
Speaker
Where do you guys see that in?
00:14:14
Speaker
I was going to say, actually, it's quite an interesting idea, luck and sort of random chance, because I recently read something and it's basically saying that when you, let's say, flip a coin, it's never really random chance because there are so many other external factors.
00:14:29
Speaker
So it's like, how hard do you push it to flip it?
00:14:34
Speaker
what are the conditions around you all these things effectively can alter the way the end outcome of flipping that coin so luck is an idea or random chance is an idea which is just very much theoretical because of all these other practical things that come into place like when you make your own luck for example
00:14:56
Speaker
you know there are still things that are going to come in the way you could break your leg and it could just all be over so i think luck's a really sort of theoretical idea um because there are so many practical constraints or external factors what do you think diane yeah i i agree i think i'm not big believer in luck generally i don't really subscribe to the idea there's sort of luck involved
00:15:22
Speaker
I mean, I think I do it for practical reasons, mostly because it makes my life easier.
00:15:26
Speaker
And so it makes me take, makes me take accountability.
00:15:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:33
Speaker
But even at a sort of purely theoretical perspective, I don't really just subscribe to, oh, well, nothing I can do about it because I do think even if, you know, let's say you're playing poker, which is a complete luck based game.
00:15:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:52
Speaker
your strategy can still kind of influence the game.
00:15:54
Speaker
I mean, you know, obviously do not gamble.
00:15:57
Speaker
I just have to say that now.
00:16:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:02
Speaker
If there's luck in anything, it's gambling.
00:16:04
Speaker
So do not gamble.
00:16:08
Speaker
What do you think, Adam?
The Role of Luck and Determinism Beyond Humans
00:16:09
Speaker
I think, yeah, it's interesting with luck.
00:16:12
Speaker
Now, I think
00:16:14
Speaker
I definitely agree with some of your points in the sense that you shouldn't go around with the idea that, you know, you're a lucky person.
00:16:22
Speaker
I think there definitely are lucky people.
00:16:23
Speaker
And the reason for that is, you know,
00:16:26
Speaker
You know, people are born with, you know, terrible conditions, but like from birth, these incredible defects, people, you know, suffer great loss or tragedy or injury for absolutely no reason.
00:16:37
Speaker
Right.
00:16:37
Speaker
You know, they wake up one day and they have a congenital disease or illness, like, you know, people suffer from all these things.
00:16:43
Speaker
So in that sense, I, I do believe in luck, but not.
00:16:47
Speaker
in gambling or things like that, I find it very difficult to grasp that kind of idea because it's completely linked to free will and determinism.
00:17:03
Speaker
Luck is a really interesting thing because a lot of, if you take the perspective of people who subscribe to determinism, you'll find that they'll find that they'll have a certain amount of luck in their life.
00:17:14
Speaker
And depending on how much luck that they've been given, right, because you don't have the choice to make your own luck or, you know, be blessed by luck.
00:17:23
Speaker
It's interesting.
00:17:24
Speaker
And then with free will, again, with luck,
00:17:27
Speaker
can you make your own luck i don't know it's interesting because yeah it's such a difficult concept to kind of to ponder because it there's so many aspects you know you could some people and it's also highly subjective because you know some people will think every time they get in a car and they don't get in a car accident they're lucky right because people do get so there's so many avenues but if we kind of simplify it a little bit i'd probably go with
00:17:52
Speaker
I do believe in luck to an extent.
00:17:55
Speaker
That's probably where I would.
00:17:56
Speaker
I think you can definitely also kind of like that phrase, make your luck.
00:17:59
Speaker
I think you can definitely improve your odds.
00:18:01
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, 100%.
00:18:02
Speaker
I think, so, you know, let's say you're in a, you know, 100 meters race and it's very close, right?
00:18:09
Speaker
You know, the last race you were at, there was a one, like three millisecond difference, you know?
00:18:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:17
Speaker
Definitely with training,
00:18:19
Speaker
and with a lot of hard work, you can improve your chances of winning that race.
00:18:25
Speaker
Is there a small amount of luck involved, that fact you don't trip over or that you don't have a full start?
00:18:30
Speaker
Yeah, maybe.
00:18:31
Speaker
You could say that's luck.
00:18:33
Speaker
But you can also say that's really hard work and preparation.
00:18:36
Speaker
So I think it's all about perspective.
00:18:38
Speaker
Yeah, I agree with that, definitely.
00:18:40
Speaker
It's... Oh, God.
00:18:43
Speaker
It's such a... I think that this whole argument of free will is quite difficult to kind of grasp because it...
00:18:52
Speaker
ultimately determines how we live our lives, but not even on a minuscule scale, like on the sense of everything you will ever do is predetermined.
00:19:03
Speaker
Like if you actually just kind of sit back for a second and go, hold on, that's like an incredible thing.
00:19:08
Speaker
And the other thing, which the only reason why I definitely don't subscribe to determinism is
00:19:15
Speaker
as an agnostic is there's no explanation for it.
00:19:17
Speaker
There's no, you know, the good thing with free will is it's self-contained, right?
00:19:22
Speaker
If you as an agent, as a human being are responsible for your actions, but if something else is responsible for your actions, well, what is it?
00:19:30
Speaker
If you don't subscribe to a God of classical theism or God, what has determined your life?
00:19:35
Speaker
And then there's even these more difficult questions like, where is it?
00:19:38
Speaker
Where is it stored?
00:19:39
Speaker
Where is it kept?
00:19:39
Speaker
How does it show me?
00:19:41
Speaker
Exactly.
00:19:43
Speaker
And there's always the idea of that, you know, there's a lot about this universe and world we have no idea about and we will never have any idea about.
00:19:52
Speaker
But that doesn't mean, you know, we can definitively say it doesn't exist, but we can't definitively say it does.
00:20:00
Speaker
And then you have to kind of look into the realms of Occam's Razor of going, well, the simplest answer is usually the correct one.
00:20:07
Speaker
But I don't really think there is an Occam's Razor in this sense, because
00:20:12
Speaker
Well, or maybe there is actually, maybe I retract that.
00:20:14
Speaker
I think there is.
00:20:15
Speaker
And probably the fact that determinism is with our current understanding and knowledge not possible in the sense of physical capabilities of we understanding of how information is stored.
00:20:27
Speaker
But that isn't to say
00:20:29
Speaker
in a thousand years or how you know 50 or any spectrum of time in which we've advanced more should we still be alive and haven't all killed ourselves in some last world war um you know be able to understand this i mean one of my favorite things i went to recently i went and watched in the interstellar re-release in the imax who you are
00:20:51
Speaker
incredible thing, but that in itself really actually coincidentally sparked my kind of ideas of free will in the sense of them going through a wormhole to another time hole.
00:21:01
Speaker
But this idea of traveling through time and space, it does lead you to the question, I mean, I'm going a little bit down a rabbit hole here, but of, you know, if we do have determinism for everything,
00:21:15
Speaker
Is it only exclusive to human beings?
00:21:18
Speaker
Is it exclusive to planets to you know, to the universe as a universe have its own determinism?
00:21:23
Speaker
Like there's so many of these questions, but then also free will allow free will is usually only associated with, you know, cognitive beings, not like rocks and stuff, but.
00:21:35
Speaker
then again you have to kind of look in in the sense of can determinism and free will exist in the same universe so that will be my next question to you two because obviously you know the earth or the earth orbits the sun like it doesn't have a choice that's what it does but is there is there a sense of free will about its positioning you know the sense of an asteroid coming because if you believe in free will surely determinism can't exist what do you guys think about that
00:22:01
Speaker
I think definitely when you look at the universe for me, I see a lot of determinism.
Universal Determinism
00:22:07
Speaker
I see, you know, as you said, the orbiting of the planets.
00:22:10
Speaker
Also the idea that a lot of scientists in general just believe that the universe is going to end, like, well, Earth is going to end one day.
00:22:19
Speaker
Like, what is it?
00:22:20
Speaker
The sun's going to explode.
00:22:21
Speaker
And they've said it's determined that the world is going to end.
00:22:25
Speaker
However, I do think within that, within the universe, there is a, there is part of free will to play.
00:22:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:33
Speaker
And I think there's a view sort of of soft determinism and that is our behavior sort of constrained by the environment or biological makeup to a small, to like a certain extent.
00:22:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:44
Speaker
But within that, we have a bit of free will.
00:22:47
Speaker
So, you know, for example, an asteroid could hit us and knock us off path a little bit.
00:22:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:54
Speaker
Like, yeah, maybe it will change human life a bit.
00:22:56
Speaker
That's free will, I guess.
00:22:58
Speaker
So I think there's bits of, there's sort of glimmers of free will.
00:23:02
Speaker
However, when I look at the universe, I do see a largely sort of determined thing.
00:23:07
Speaker
What do you think, Dan?
00:23:09
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's a very important question that Kenan has brought up.
00:23:14
Speaker
I look at it from a sort of... It's very complicated to say if you are a believer of the creation story, whether it's true or not, to say whether that is determinism or free will.
00:23:29
Speaker
That is very difficult to say.
00:23:31
Speaker
But I would sort of classify it as...
00:23:38
Speaker
a second-hand determinism.
00:23:39
Speaker
That's how I'd classify it as, in a way.
00:23:43
Speaker
Yeah, in what sense?
00:23:44
Speaker
I think, you know, there's been a choice made in creation...
00:23:50
Speaker
But the universe now with the spinning and the, you know, the orbiting and all of the other natural factors such as, you know, the water cycle, et cetera, et cetera.
00:24:00
Speaker
I feel like that's a determined thing.
00:24:02
Speaker
It's like almost like a watch ticking.
00:24:05
Speaker
I don't want to make the watch analogy with William Paley because I don't think it's necessarily good.
00:24:10
Speaker
It's like a watch ticking, you know, you build it and then it's determined to move a certain way or, um,
00:24:18
Speaker
Or a TV, you know, you build it and you've got a remote.
00:24:20
Speaker
When you press the remote, you know, it's meant to do a certain thing.
00:24:24
Speaker
I feel like it's a function, maybe secondhand determinism, if, you know, that's how odd.
00:24:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:30
Speaker
What do you think, Canon?
Coexistence of Free Will and Determinism
00:24:32
Speaker
I think, I mean, I said it on my opening point, it's very hard to kind of determine whether they can coexist.
00:24:45
Speaker
Can determinism and free will exist in the same universe?
00:24:49
Speaker
Because...
00:24:50
Speaker
It goes back to my point about turning into a pigeon and flying.
00:24:53
Speaker
Well, if there's a natural law which is constricting or is constraining to one being, surely then it should be constraining to all.
00:25:02
Speaker
But a pigeon can fly.
00:25:04
Speaker
It wills to fly.
00:25:06
Speaker
It gets very complicated because you have to kind of...
00:25:09
Speaker
I mean, it all kind of almost boils down to definitions, but as always with the most philosophical debates and discussions, you know, you have to kind of, if we disregard that for argument's sake,
00:25:26
Speaker
it's you kind of you have to be able to kind of determine whether you you think that we can have freedom and determinism because this whole sense of if you think freedom is complete freedom then of course you think they can't coexist but then there's so many aspects of determinism in the universe it makes it hard to completely disregard it so I
00:25:51
Speaker
just through kind of the empirical evidence that I've been exposed to would say that they do coexist.
00:25:58
Speaker
I think there's more determinism than free will.
00:26:01
Speaker
And I think free will is something which is unique to cognitive beings only, um, to my current understanding, because it'd be quite a ludicrous claim to say that
00:26:13
Speaker
has its own free will unless you subscribe to Gaia hypothesis and you think the earth is a living organism and all of that stuff but on the whole if we just take it like that I think they probably coexist but I think there's a lot more determinism than free will
00:26:31
Speaker
Oh, well, with that, I think we can finish this very good discussion on free will versus determinism.
00:26:39
Speaker
A big thank you to Kenan for coming on today.
00:26:41
Speaker
Thank
Conclusion and Audience Engagement
00:26:42
Speaker
you.
00:26:42
Speaker
Thank you for having me on.
00:26:43
Speaker
It's been amazing.
00:26:44
Speaker
Many thanks, Kenan.
00:26:45
Speaker
And I'm sure we'll collaborate in the future.
00:26:48
Speaker
I'm sure.
00:26:49
Speaker
Bring some other very stimulating discussions to our listeners.
00:26:54
Speaker
As always, if you like the episode, please do leave us a comment down below.
00:26:59
Speaker
Do follow the podcast and leave us a five-star review.
00:27:02
Speaker
And as ever, do listen back to the episodes that we have previously had on.
00:27:07
Speaker
A great episode on absurdism last week.
00:27:11
Speaker
And I look forward to seeing you next week.
00:27:14
Speaker
I'll see you soon.