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Building (True) Wealth: Part 3 - Connection
414 Plays8 days ago
As we conclude our True Wealth series, we turn our focus on to the idea of connection, the relationships in our lives that enrich and shape our days, and in a lot of ways, makes all the other forms of wealth worth pursuing! This week, we're digging into three spheres of connection in our world today: our inner circle, the wider web and connections made online. From marriage to Anne of Green Gables, from Catherine the Great of Russia to parasocial relationships, and from local league hockey to one-upping each other with our "regulars" statuses at our respective local pizza joints, we are taking a closer look into what meaningful connections really look like today, and how we can cultivate them in a way that’s truly intentional.
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Transcript
Struggles with Pronunciation
00:00:00
Speaker
So this bond, this indissolvable, indissolvable, how do you say it? Indissolvable. Indissolvable. Indissolvable. Dissoluble?
00:00:12
Speaker
Indissoluble. Indissoluble. I can't say it. Indissoluble. Indissoluble. I have it written in front of me. Indissoluble.
00:00:24
Speaker
My mouth can't do it. Indissoluble. I can't It cannot be dissolved. Just saying. Right. Okay. Okay. I'll do. Okay.
Introduction to Episode 160
00:00:42
Speaker
Welcome back to the Modern Lady Podcast. You're listening to episode 160. Hi, I'm Michelle. And I'm Lindsay. And today we are finishing our series on true wealth as we talk about our connections with the people in our lives, our relational wealth.
00:00:58
Speaker
Variety the very spice of life that gives it all its flavor. So wrote 18th century English poet William Cowper in his 1785 book, The Task.
00:01:09
Speaker
When it comes to our relationships, we find ourselves today with so many opportunities to connect with others. As we conclude our true wealth series with connection being a source of true wealth, it begs the question, what does meaningful connection really look like today? And how do we cultivate it in a way that's truly intentional?
00:01:29
Speaker
Let's discuss. But first, the best way that you can support the Modern Lady is by subscribing to our podcast on whatever app you use to listen to podcasts and by sharing us with your friends. We also appreciate when our listeners take a few minutes and write a review of the podcast on whatever app you're using.
00:01:46
Speaker
We read each and every one and pick one to give a shout out to This week's shout out goes to Megan, who wrote us a lovely comment on our website and said, quote, Hi, Michelle and Lindsay. I'm so glad you have returned to the podcast, although I completely understand the need to step back for a while.
00:02:04
Speaker
I recently listened to your episode, Battle Against Burnout, and it really resonated with me. I really appreciate your insights. I really do appreciate how thoughtful you are, both in choosing relevant topics and how you reflect on them, how peaceful your voices are, because in a house full of boys, that's not what I hear. And I love hearing what you're loving this week.
00:02:25
Speaker
Best wishes for the new year. Thank you so much, Megan, for your message. It really made our day to hear from you. And we're so glad that our conversations resonate with you. It feels so good to be here chatting with you and sharing all of the areas of our lives.
00:02:41
Speaker
And if you would like to leave us a comment or message us about today's episode, the best way to get in touch with us is on Instagram at The Modern Lady Podcast. But be sure to stay tuned to the end of the episode for other ways to connect because we would love to hear from you.
Historical Etiquette of Gloves
00:03:00
Speaker
But before we get into today's chat, Lindsay has our Modern Lady Tip of the Week. I'm guessing that many of our listeners have been experiencing a winter to remember this year.
00:03:12
Speaker
We are blanketed under more snow than we have had in years. And every day I layer up with a hat, scarf, two pairs of leggings, cleats on my boots, and gloves. Well, okay, to be truthful, actually have a pair mittens that look like geese.
00:03:26
Speaker
Each mitten is a goose's head with an orange beak and a black beaded eye. You won't find these mittens on the fashion trends list, but let's get back to the glove thing. Early on in our podcast, I did an etiquette tip about gloves, but that was more practical and hopefully our long-time listeners know how to put on their kid leather opera gloves.
00:03:46
Speaker
Thanks to that tip of the week. Today, I'm excited to share with you the ways that ladies of old communicated secret messages with their gloves so that you too can communicate to your husband that you would like a kiss with just a naked thumb exposed.
00:04:00
Speaker
Let's start there. You'd like a kiss? Pull your thumb out of your right glove. But perhaps you should pull your thumb out of your left glove first so that you can ask, you love me? Before signaling for a kiss.
00:04:12
Speaker
Oh goodness, look at me getting ahead of myself. You should actually start out holding your gloves with the tips pointed downwards, signaling that you wish to be acquainted. Okay, now you're puckered up and you're leaning in for that kiss, and you spot your chaperone giving you side eye. Quickly now, twirl your gloves around your fingers to communicate to your crush that you are being watched.
00:04:33
Speaker
You steal that kiss and it was good. Hold your gloves loosely in your left hand so your bow knows that you are satisfied. You're ready to move on. That's enough of that flirtiness. Bite the tips of your gloves to signal to him that you wish to be rid of him very soon. Ah, things are escalating now. Begin folding up your gloves carefully to make it clear that you want him gone, and then strike them over your hand to show that you are displeased.
00:04:59
Speaker
But wait, your emotions are all over the place. Strike the gloves over your shoulder to tell him to follow you. Turn them inside out. I hate you. Drop both of them. I love you. Tap your chin. Ah, alas, I love another.
00:05:13
Speaker
Have women always been a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside of an enigma? Drop one of your gloves. Yes. Will we ever change? Clench your gloves rolled up in your right hand. No.
00:05:25
Speaker
How has this tip made me feel? I'll put my gloves away and you will know that I am vexed. but I'm very excited for your romance novel debut.
00:05:37
Speaker
you took us on a journey there.
00:05:45
Speaker
like, how do i read this list? And I'm like, wait, it's an adventure story. it's It's a novel and it wrote itself. But oh my gosh, do you know what's very funny? is i thinking like so the women were the ones communicating with the gloves, right? Right, right. Yeah.
00:06:02
Speaker
Could the men even communicate back? Well, I guess that's my next tip of the week. Yeah, I know. You're um like, maybe it's like a mustache twirl. Maybe there's something that men Because otherwise they might be like helplessly staring back across the room and she's just like having a full out glove attack.
00:06:20
Speaker
A one-slap glove conversation. Why aren't you saying anything she says as she slaps the right glove across her left thigh? don't know. across his face.
00:06:35
Speaker
Oh, my goodness. Oh, I guess there's so much more to research. There is. This is Victorian era still, right? Yeah, I actually didn't verify that. But yes, I'm guessing it's Victorian. All right. Oh, my goodness. Well, I wait with bated breath. I need to know the conclusion to the story. And we need a men's POV.
00:06:55
Speaker
Sounds good.
Relational Wealth and Meaningful Connections
00:06:59
Speaker
A conversation about the things that truly make us rich in life would be remiss without mentioning the importance of connection, the relationships and community that bring others into our world and us into theirs.
00:07:12
Speaker
And in a lot of ways, it's what makes the other kinds of wealth ultimately worth pursuing. Right, Lindsay? Absolutely. This has been something that's been on my heart for a long time. You know, as you guys know, this True Wealth series kind of was inspired by everything we went through in the hospital with Charlotte. um And while that was all going on, um i think, Michelle, you had told me about Arthur C. Brooks. um ah You had listened to something by him. So you told me about him and this um Advent series um that he did with Father Mike Schmitz. And I listened to it while out shoveling very deep snow. And I have to say it was like the perfect thing to listen to during that about, you know. personal development and suffering. um yeah
00:07:52
Speaker
But what he talked about in that episode was about connection. And he said it is the number one predictor of personal happiness and life satisfaction. And that just stopped me in my tracks. I'm like, I want to know more about that if that's the number one predictor of personal happiness and life satisfaction. So there was a long running study called the Harvard study of adult development.
00:08:13
Speaker
And it started in 1938. And And it showed that there are several factors that contribute to a person's happiness. Connection with others rises way above the other factors.
00:08:23
Speaker
Here's the profound conclusion. Quote, good relationships lead to health and happiness. The trick is that those relationships must be nurtured. End quote. The Harvard Gazette reported, and now this is a long quote, um close relationships lead.
00:08:38
Speaker
More than money or fame are what keep people happy throughout their lives, the study revealed. Those ties protect people from life's dis um discontents, help to delay mental and physical decline, and are better predictors of long and happy lives than social class, IQ, or even genes.
00:08:57
Speaker
That finding proved true across the board among both the Harvard men and the inner-city participants. The author added, Researchers who have poured through data, including vast medical records and hundreds of in-person interviews and questionnaires, found a strong correlation between men's flourishing lives and their relationships with family, friends, and community.
00:09:18
Speaker
Several studies found that people's level of satisfaction with their relationships at age 50 was a better predictor of their physical health than their cholesterol levels were. Mm-hmm. wow Yeah, it's almost like we're made for each other. yeah almost like this is how we're supposed to be. Yeah, it's almost like the data just backs up, you know, this in the sense we've always had. It's so weird how science does that. weird um Now, I will just say again that I turned to my new best friend, ChatGPT, and I
Loneliness and Relational Wealth
00:09:52
Speaker
was asking about this. And the term, because I'm like, what is this called, right? Like, you and have talked before about, like, inner circles and different spheres of influence, like that idea of like, circles, right? Growing bigger. Yeah. And I was like, well, that's a really long title, Circles of Relationships Growing Bigger. I don't know what to call it. So ChatGBT called it relational wealth. And I thought that that's really interesting. And it defines it as the accumulated trust, care, shared history, and emotional safety built over time. This wealth can't be rushed or outsourced and often goes unnoticed until it's gone. And wow, that last part.
00:10:27
Speaker
Right. Yeah. Yeah, that kind of goes along with what you were just saying before about how, like, yeah, good relationships it is the key. Like, it's the key to everything, but they have to be nurtured, right? And that's what, you know, this assessment of relational wealth is...
00:10:46
Speaker
is also saying too, is that like, yeah, all these things, accumulated trust, shared history, emotional safety that's built over time. None of those things are just like you're, they just happen. Yeah. Right. And i was interested that it put wealth yeah already with relational because that's our series ah direction, but it will be interesting to explore what then that work, that nurturing work is depending on the connection involved.
00:11:16
Speaker
Yeah. And the closeness of the relationship. i I was looking at like what builds attachment just briefly. And I learned that closeness grows when someone shows up regularly, responds with care and remembers details about you.
00:11:30
Speaker
And it's interesting because we're going to discuss these different levels of connection through the different types of relationships. And we're going to end on something that is interesting. And that's like online friendships as well. And we want to address that because there's that checks a lot of the boxes sometimes, too. But we'll get there. Yeah, there's a term I've seen floating around for a long time on the Internet, and we've made it even said it before in the podcast, but it's it's called the pandemic of loneliness.
00:11:54
Speaker
And I looked it up to see the most recent studies. And this is a big problem. um There are is there's a 2025 study from the AARP, and that report showed that 40 percent of Americans are lonely, like really lonely. But then a broader poll is even sadder. A 2025 American Psychological Association poll found found that over 50% of U.S. adults feel lonely and emotionally disconnected.
00:12:19
Speaker
This is the pandemic of loneliness.
Investing in Relationships
00:12:22
Speaker
It was maybe, i i don't have the exact numbers, I think around 30, 25 to 30% before the pandemic and then its obviously skyrocketed up to during the pandemic.
00:12:32
Speaker
And then it went down a little bit, but it's creeped right back up to that number, which is really alarming that so many people are feeling emotionally disconnected. And this always makes me think about the quote from St. Teresa of Calcutta, you know Mother Teresa, some of you might know her.
00:12:48
Speaker
And she said, the greatest disease in the West today is not TB or leprosy. It is being unwanted, unloved, and uncared for. We can cure physical diseases with medicine, but the only cure for loneliness, despair, and hopelessness is love.
00:13:04
Speaker
There are many in the world who are dying for a piece of bread, but there are many more dying for a little love. The poverty in the West is a different kind of poverty. It is a poverty of love.
00:13:15
Speaker
And wow, I remember in a some up version that, think she said just in another time, like, you can feed someone bread, right? But that's not what people are always starving for. You can fill them up with bread. But we are starving for so much more. We're starving for connection.
00:13:30
Speaker
and and the way that humans bond also is through like shared interests, shared struggles, shared meaning. And if someone understands your inner life, your sense of humor, your your worldview, your nervous system experiences it as a close relationship.
00:13:46
Speaker
And another way to kind of talk about this, we can use the starving and the bread thing, but another thing is that you can be financially rich, but relationally bankrupt. Yeah.
00:13:57
Speaker
And so when I was talking about it with wealth again, this question came up. What if connection is a form of wealth that you can invest in daily? What would that look like? And that's, I think, what we're going to dive a little deeper into.
00:14:10
Speaker
ahha Oh, my gosh. there's There's so much with that, like with the quote and the idea of loneliness. it's It's interesting when you were talking about how the rates of loneliness skyrocketed during COVID, which makes a lot of sense. Yeah.
00:14:25
Speaker
um And you would think it would be natural to assume that it would just go back down yeah once things started reopening and things like that. But the fact that it stayed relatively high yeah ah compared to what it was before the pandemic is something to pause over, I think. Yeah.
00:14:44
Speaker
and i think this conversation about connection and what it means to really be in true community with other people. i see it popping up more and more, even in social media and in secular circles and stuff. It's like, it it's like we've gone a little while without um really taking stock of what connection is and what it should be. And we're feeling it. We're feeling the effects as Mother Teresa Like noted and probably predicted in a fuller sense for where we're living today. and so I think it's good like, you know, to think of it. Yeah. In this term of wealth and just like with time, just like with health. And we talked in the other two episodes about
00:15:29
Speaker
It seems like anything worth having in your life that makes you really actually rich in the things that matters also has ah options for you to make those daily investments.
00:15:43
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. i think I think looking back during the pandemic, there was an obvious fracture, right? In society, everything everything changed. There was a splitting apart, a division of opinions.
00:15:54
Speaker
And that has not healed. And dare I say, it is growing worse. And what I think we need to recapture, reclaim is our individual duty and responsibility and ability to build connection that falls on each one of us. And again, we're going to talk about like each level of that, but it is our Christian duty. um to to work on this and to try to rebuild those connections of our fractured society.
00:16:20
Speaker
And then just even on like a a slightly lesser level, um one of the accounts I follow on Instagram, every Sunday she posts anonymous polls, like people can write in a question, write in a poll. And something that's posted every single week is, do you feel like you have any friends? Do you feel like you're left out of a friend group? Like this this loneliness So here we are, we can be sitting here thinking we're the only one. And that's what it seems like everyone is feeling when you see those anonymous posts going up. But clearly the majority data tells us it's the majority of people right now. So we want this episode to be encouraging. Mm hmm. you, right? To to ourselves.
Marriage as a Form of Wealth
00:16:58
Speaker
um And it's ah so much of working on my notes here has been a renewal for me and a desire to reach out make those connections in my own life, an appreciation and a gratitude for the people who've done that for me and really recognizing what they have done for me, even in the smallest ways. um But this should be encouraging because the power is within us. We always say it starts at home and it legit starts at home because in part one, we're going to talk about our core bond connections, our relational home base. So Let's start here.
00:17:26
Speaker
ha So our relational home base, this inner circle is comprised of marriage, immediate family, and chosen inner circle. And these relationships form your emotional infrastructure.
00:17:41
Speaker
And so we'll start with marriage. We'll talk about marriage. and Marriage is wealth. And I love that this idea of marriage as wealth, i was I was reading about it, and I kept coming across this idea that is the witnessing of each other's becoming.
00:17:55
Speaker
and I'm like, wow, you are witnessing what the other is becoming on a daily basis, on a micro level, on a macro level, right? And I thought that that's beautiful. And then you have these shared memories and mutual care during vulnerability. That is what yeah a spousal partnership looks like.
00:18:15
Speaker
Yeah. Wow. i It truly is. And it's not something that you know on like a deep level until you actually experience it. Yeah. Right? um And I'm only saying this, I mean, to to other couples who've been married like 50 years. Yeah.
00:18:36
Speaker
yeah Or more, I'm still a newly led in their eyes, right? But even in the, ah well, we've been married 15 years now. yeah And even in those 15 years, like you were saying those things witnessing each other's becoming. yeah I've often like stopped and reflected. I'm like, we're both so different.
00:18:54
Speaker
Than who we were when we got married. Thanks to God. I'm not saying that for you guys. saying that for us. Yeah. Thanks be to God. Oh, definitely. Like, and for us too. And ah all going through all those things that made that happen yeah is a shared memory. Like we were both there. Yeah. um For all those things. And then, yeah, the mutual care during vulnerability. yeah When you, yeah, when you marry someone,
00:19:20
Speaker
It's almost like in terms of like the wealth yeah that you're making, maybe could be, say, like one of our biggest investments. I dare say our biggest investment. Yeah, I dare say two. I remember Jason said to me when we were newly married, um and we had, as I've talked about in previous episodes, a really rough start to our marriage. And I remember him saying...
00:19:43
Speaker
There are almost two marriages. There's your wedding day. And he goes, then a day is going to happen inevitably. And every marriage could be a year in, two years in, 10 years in, 20 years in. Something's going to happen where you choose to stay married. And that's like almost the real marriage starts that day. And um and that's always struck with me. And it stuck with me. And I think he's right. um Yeah. Yeah.
00:20:07
Speaker
And so i think first we want to, as Catholics, um I turned to the catechism. I wanted to see how it defined marriage. And so um I'll just share this. So it says, um the marriage covenant by which a man and woman form with each other an intimate communion of life and love. has been founded and endowed with its own special laws by the Creator.
00:20:28
Speaker
By its very nature, it is ordered to the good of the couple as well to the generation and education of children. Christ the Lord raised marriage between the baptized to the dignity of a sacrament.
00:20:40
Speaker
And then I just want to add here that and the Catechism also speaks to married couples who aren't able to have children. And it says, spouses to whom God has not granted children can nevertheless have a conjugal life full of meaning, can radiate a fruitfulness of charity, of hospitality, and of sacrifice. And I'm like, this is beautiful. Like when you actually look at these like communion of life and love, right? A fruitfulness of charity, of hospitality. Like it's absolutely gorgeous. It just really warms my heart. Yeah. Yeah. And it actually ties so beautifully with what Jason said.
00:21:17
Speaker
Yeah. Yes, it
00:21:32
Speaker
and sacramentally we ah we we always talk about this constant conversion of heart Yes. Like we, we say yes to God every day. Yeah. Right. And it's a new commitment. It's like an, yeah, a new vow that we make every single day, the renewing of our vows every day to God.
00:21:52
Speaker
And that is like what Jason was saying, like, there's going to come another time where you choose to stay married. Yeah. and like in marriage, that moment probably comes up even more than one other time. Yeah, you're absolutely right. After your wedding day, right? And so if we're made in the image of God and marriage is an image of our if our relationship with God and that marriage is an image of Christ's relationship with the church, that all just fits together. So it's like that whole, like the sacramental life of the church being lived out in everyday daily life. It's beautiful to think about.
00:22:29
Speaker
Absolutely. um i want to add a little bit more, um which I think is also beautiful. There's so much, there's actually so much the church says about marriage. And um I will say that so many, you know, non-Catholics are like, well, what a priest to know about marriage. Let me tell you, until you sat in front of a priest and talked about marriage, what they know is incredible. The things Fulton Sheen wrote about in like three to get married and stuff, it is absolutely incredible. So I, i am always, i am always reminded every time when I Seriously look at what the church has to say about marriage, that it is beautiful and mind-blowing and encouraging um and just so spirit-led. So um this is another thing. um
00:23:04
Speaker
The first effect of the sacrament of marriage is the gift of the bond between the spouses. The consent by which the spouses mutually give and receive one another is sealed by God himself.
00:23:16
Speaker
So this bond, this this bond that cannot be dissolved. and This is the relational home base that we are talking about. and it is like you what you were just saying, Michelle, a gift given daily through self-sacrifice and fidelity to each other, regardless of the challenges temptations and struggles of each and every day.
Marriage: Joys and Challenges
00:23:34
Speaker
um This takes me back to that reel that was circulating a little while ago on Instagram about like marry the person that you can sit in hospitals with. oh Yeah, ah that has resonated with me. um ah Gosh, over our 21 year marriage, I think we're at 60, no, 70 or 80 nights in hospitals. Obviously, we haven't been together for all those, but we've been on the phone during them or we've been sitting in waiting rooms. It's been a big part of our years as parents.
00:24:07
Speaker
And when I was in there with Charlotte for off and on for the the months last spring, Jason and I could only chat during that time as I literally sat on the gross bathroom floor in hospital. Thank goodness i'm not scared of germs. And I was just sitting on the bathroom floor in the hospital and calling him from there. And we would pass each other in the lobby as like one of us was going home to the other kids if we could trade off. And we would hug in the lobby. and Let me tell you guys, if you've never been through that yet, that nothing else mattered. Nothing else more than that our connection with each other to strengthen and carry our family through that.
00:24:46
Speaker
um and our connection with our loved ones during that time. Connection made all the difference. And, you know, I know all of you have either face challenges or in the future. And I just pray that you guys can feel as lifted up and as loved as we felt during all that. But yeah, you can think of about all the romantic things you want in a spouse or in a guy and you're like, what's that song? Trust one, six foot five, blue eyes. What was that? Looking for a guy in finance. Yes. Yes. You could have that. yes But I'd like to add a guy you could sit in hospitals with because, yeah, that is so true.
00:25:22
Speaker
And this is actually it ties into the wealth thing, too, and gives us the like practical takeaway of how do you get there? Yeah. Because this is where the daily small daily investments come into play. yeah Because life will take us in our married lives all over the place, um like ups and downs, difficult times, good times. But you'll get more return, I guess, what trying to say, on investment from a consistent small contribution. yeah.
00:25:56
Speaker
ah Working it into your everyday life, little things like learning how to forgive, learning how to apologize, learning how to be honest, building each other up, being gracious, you know, in those everyday levels. So that when ah a big thing happens and you need to take out a large yes withdrawal. withdrawal. Thank you. yeah um You have a strong base there, right? So that's how like when we talk about marriage as like building up marriage as wealth, it really does connect with that image of finances. And and it gives us something tangible that we can start doing like right in little tiny steps, knowing that it's going to pay back in dividends over the course of our marriage. Yeah.
00:26:45
Speaker
Yeah. And I think that there's a temptation sometimes in marriages that aren't going well to see it. if we're going to continue with, like, again, the wealth conversation to see some of these things as transactional, I will do X, Y, z and you're going to meet me back with ABC or whatever. And when that transaction is failing, because it's bound to fail, marriage is not transactional in that way. But I think we're told it should be um that we're going to be let down every time. But the way that you and I see marriage and the way that we're taught to see marriage is that it is just a pouring out of X, Y, Z. And when done properly, it it is given back to you It's reflected back to you. But this is about a total investment on your side. And it's like gambling on the stock market. You can't guarantee what's going to happen on the other side. You can only guarantee how much you're going to invest. But marriage is worth going all in on.
00:27:35
Speaker
It is truly the building block of society. I want to talk about that a little bit because St. John Christosom wrote... A couple great things about marriage. So I have two things he said here. First, he said, when a husband and wife are united in marriage they are no longer they no longer seem like something earthly but rather like the image of god himself and then he said the love of husband and wife is the force that welds society together And this is what I want to look at now because our good marriages, I guess, and our bad marriages do go outwards outside of our houses and they change society. And someone who wrote a whole book on that actual notion is Scott Hahn, our beloved Scott Hahn. Yes. He wrote a book called The First Society, The Sacrament of Matrimony and the Restoration of the Social Order.
00:28:24
Speaker
Now, I have not read this book. um I did rely on an AI summary um that came up on Google. um But I want to, because now this is definitely, up maybe this will be my Lenten read um this year. This might be a great idea. would great. Yep.
00:28:37
Speaker
Yeah, but that summary said strong families create a resilient matrix of families that provides the strength for a society, while the sacramental grace of marriage provides the necessary guidance and strength for success within this first society and for the building up of the larger community.
00:28:54
Speaker
His central argument is that the family, particularly the sacrament of matrimony, is the first and foundational human society, and its proper functioning is essential for a flourishing social order. So I was thinking about that. I'm like, yeah, so much for it's just a piece of paper, right? Like somebody would be like, a piece of paper. Yeah, so much for that.
00:29:14
Speaker
but But this is something you and I have talked about through how many episodes are we at today? 160? Did you say? 160, not including like extra ones we just didn't give numbers to. Wow. I think that the undercurrent has always been building up our homes, right? So that and we can share, have that ripple effect into society. So yeah. Yeah, it starts with marriage if you are called to marriage. Yeah.
00:29:38
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And it's not easy. But one thing I was reflecting on about this first level of connection yeah is that it is actually the most vocational of the three that we'll talk about today. It's the one that's most closely linked to our, like, relationship.
00:29:56
Speaker
Finding purpose, yeah I guess, in life. It's your your family, your immediate families and your spouses and your close friends and those types of things, right? yeah um And because of that, it both pays back in the biggest way, like we said, but it is also maybe the most challenging. Yes. Yes. You know, how is that holy sandpaper that is going to get you sanctified painfully sometimes. Yes. Built right into it. right The proximity, like by its very nature, the closeness, yeah being your closest circle, it allows people in into the parts that are easy, easier to minimize maybe. with people who aren't as close. And so when we're talking about marriage, like it is a beautiful thing. And we've said beautiful things about it even just now. But also knowing that like this level of connection um is maybe the the most difficult to persevere, can be the most difficult to persevere in and certain parts of your life. That's
00:31:02
Speaker
That's an honest take. Been there. Absolutely. Yeah, it can be. You're right. Just that because it's the one place where you are totally laid laid bare, totally vulnerable, where you have to go all in with trust. Right. And that that opens up a path to potential for wounds and And human pain and suffering and all that. So we we totally get that too. um We, again, believe in the power of living a sacramental life and the graces that come with that. I know that frequent confession, you know, reception of the Eucharist, um these things important.
00:31:37
Speaker
the foundation and the underpinning of our marriage and we can certainly feel like it when we go to confession um once a month as a family or maybe every six weeks and even if we don't have like big mortal sins i haven't robbed a bank i don't think let me just do my examination conscience um jason will say often we're just feeling kind of grimy you know you can fight you feel a little bit more tension between husband and wife you're not really connecting and as soon as we go to confession That griminess is like washed off. And so, yeah, we do believe that as it is a sacrament, meaning that everything for your own personal sanctification is worked into that vocation. Like it's all in there, the good, the bad, the ugly. If you use it the right way, you will draw closer to Christ throughout your life.
00:32:21
Speaker
um It's worked in there, but that's that is a holy sandpaper. It is going to feel rough sometimes. um But that, yeah, we believe in the sacramental graces that the sacrament of marriage Mm-hmm.
Multigenerational Living Benefits
00:32:34
Speaker
hey um so if we're going to look within the home the next thing i want to address here is something i've had a beautiful glimpse at through charlotte's boyfriend chris and that's multigenerational living and how that's something that is practiced throughout almost the entire rest of the world that we don't do here right in the white west i will say however with a lot of immigrants coming to canada we're seeing this a lot more now in those families and that's like krish and his family and this particularly matters to me in a very unique sense because krish is an only child but his grandparents who are well quite older like they're in their eighty s um
00:33:13
Speaker
have a lot of health issues. I mean, like crippling health issues. Like k Chris physically will carry them sometimes places and stuff. And he's always booking their doctor's appointments because of language barriers. Like a lot of first-generation Canadians, his English is better than his family. So he's often the one booking these appointments, speaking with doctors, coordinating things. And Chris has done this since he was a young teenager. Now, where this impacted my family is when Charlotte got sick I see her 18-year-old boyfriend who is not engaged to her, who's got really no skin in the game except for having been her boyfriend for a little while.
00:33:46
Speaker
um completely and utterly pour himself into taking care of her and our family without a moment of hesitation. This is not natural to an 18-year-old boy.
00:33:58
Speaker
um But I saw it like he wasn't squeamish about the hospitals. I know a lot of people who don't want to come up and visit us in the hospital because it makes them uncomfortable. Krish crawled right into that bed with her.
00:34:08
Speaker
You know, she's hooked up to everything. She hadn't showered. and He just wrapped his arms around her. And I realized that That's because he has already faced these things. He's become accustomed to it it. is, he understands that you take care of people in those moments. And so I just, I thanked him later and said, I am just amazed at how your family has instilled that in you through the everyday practice of multi-generational living.
00:34:33
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Multi-generational living has always been something that I love. Mm-hmm. And, but I don't have any direct experience with it, like, in my own family. But I've always said to, like, my parents, and I'm just like, you know what? Like, that this is something that I can see a lot of benefit in. Yeah. Sure, I'm positive there are challenges. Yeah. Yeah, yes. Of course, with it. I'm not, I'm not like ah rose colored glasses in it. ah
00:35:03
Speaker
But yeah, that is beautiful. It really, like in a deeper way, speaks to that quote, ah or that idea of like the home, the family really being the school of life. Yes, yes. Right? Exactly. yeah Yeah. Yes. And where you learn from different generations and the different generations have something different to offer the other ones.
00:35:25
Speaker
Right? And so that is a really beautiful testimony and witness that Krish and his family give. Right? And how that schooling, that education has not just benefited his family directly,
00:35:41
Speaker
but has gone outside of those four walls into the community, particularly to your family, right? And so I do see it being talked more and more about online, this idea of multi-generational living, largely from an an economic perspective, like a financial perspective, which is also legitimate and makes a lot of sense. But I think ah we also should really take ah or pay a little bit of attention to how it can benefit us societally just in terms of life education. You experience life in so at so many different levels and are supported in your own life from so many different
Family and Social Bonds
00:36:25
Speaker
levels. And it really isn't, I don't think, something you can be taught in any other way. But through this this aspect, it's fascinating and it it it is beautiful.
00:36:37
Speaker
And I guess you won't be surprised that the data backs up exactly what you're saying too, right? like it So there was a study done in the UK because now one third of households in the UK are multigenerational. And so they have found that, quote, living with grandparents can actually boost your children's cognitive development and ability to communicate, and that it makes for a more compassionate and happier home overall. And it said this is especially true from birth to seven years old as a children's brains, as their brain development is crucial.
00:37:08
Speaker
And so I'm like, it only makes sense. and And one of the things I loved is we have some, I'm i'm sure this is all over the world, but I, I'm One of our local Catholic schools ah up the hill from me was beside an old age home. They were literally side by side. And they the school and the old age home really worked well at bringing the elementary school children in to spend time with the elderly people. And they developed this really close relationship and making cards for each other and all. And then that school was so old they couldn't renovate it. So they had to build a new school down the hill and in my neighborhood. And it is no longer adjacent to the old age home. And that loss was felt on both sides very, very deeply. Of course, you can go visit them. But there's something to be said about it literally being next door. And I'm like, that should happen everywhere. Every elementary school should be outside an old age home.
00:37:54
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, for for sure. I've often thought like even having preschools or nurseries like childcare attached to retirement homes yeah would be a great idea. And there was... um i I don't remember the study or really the source for this. Right. The world's poorest. That's Backed thing that I'm going to say. Yeah. Well, let's tell people that we actually wrote this a couple months ago, right? And we've been so busy with life that there some of our our notes are a little bit old. Yep. Go ahead. Yeah. And sometimes you see things in passing and you're like, that's amazing. And it sticks with you, but you didn't look any further into it at the time, right? that This is one of those moments. Yeah. So it was talking about how teenagers and ah seniors in particular, their ah happiness levels go way up and risk of depression and things like that go way down when they have a baby involved in their lives. Yes. So what they're seeing even with like teenagers, um often they don't have younger siblings that are that much younger than them anymore. Yeah. um And smaller families. Yeah. They just don't have a baby around. Yeah. Or even cousins or things like that, right? And then for the the elderly, the same thing.
00:39:15
Speaker
um And that that that makes a big difference. So even like that young of a generation, like a baby's not really giving much yeah like materially or health-wise. Not contributing to the household. That's right. In any other way but cuteness yes and like unfettered like unfettered love yeah and adoration of everybody. Smiles and coos.
00:39:42
Speaker
Yes. So it's really interesting that like they're doing so many studies and looking into this and it correlates with this idea of maybe we're two separate. yeah Like maybe we need to come back into like a ah really integrated way. And like we're saying before, there might be challenges, but do they outweigh the benefits yeah of working our way back?
00:40:03
Speaker
No. And, you know, we have many Catholic friends with big families. And so I've had many a Catholic mom say to me. If you have a grumpy teenage boy, what they've always done is they've handed them the baby.
00:40:14
Speaker
They just said, hey, can you hold the baby for a second? And they do it on purpose. So like, I just have to go get the laundry out or would they create a a thing. Right. And then they peek around the corner. And at first he's like, oh, like grumpy face. And then they're like 20 seconds in and he's like cooing with the baby and smiling. And they're like nothing melts their hearts better, like faster for a grumpy teenage boy than and holding a baby. And so, yeah, there's so many benefits to that. And I i will cite a report, unlike you, Michelle, I have here. more ah intellectually responsible between us, yes. But all it listen to how scientific this is. It's called the World Happiness Report. I don't know what year or who did it, but the World Happiness Report um it says that happiness is nurtured in relational spaces, and the family is at the heart of these connections.
00:41:05
Speaker
The family is where people first learn, like you were saying, to care for and share with others, creating the foundation for broader social interactions and for well-being. So again and again and again, it starts at home. And I do want to point out as well, and i think it's really important to note that from a sociological perspective, that.
00:41:25
Speaker
and And I have, this is a quote, and it says, a family may be conceived as a social unit or group of people who are related by blood, marriage, adoption, or other long-term commitments who typically live together and share economic and social activities. From a psychological perspective, families are understood in terms of caring and sharing gratifying activities and nurturing and supporting their members, which foster a sense of belonging and identity that significantly contributes to people's well-being. and This perspective and emphasizes emotional bonds, interpersonal dynamics within the family, and the shared joys and challenges of life in life. So again, i do we just want to point out that it doesn't necessarily mean that you were all connected by blood or by marriage. Mm-hmm.
Expanding Social Circles
00:42:10
Speaker
So not once in that definition did I read anything about how money plays a significant role in and all of this bonding and nurturing and supporting and gratifying activities.
00:42:21
Speaker
It is a truly happy family home base, as the data is proving, is about connection. And that is free money. Mm-hmm. Oh, I love that. And another aspect, too, is like now having talked it all out, it's free and it's also, it it doesn't come from anything flashy.
00:42:43
Speaker
Yeah, that's right. Right? It's, it's um the I was just thinking about the gospel from today when we were recording, is all the parables about the seeds.
00:42:53
Speaker
We had all of them today. We had the mustard seed we had like the sower going out into his fields and then when the time is right they're going to harvest it like it was all about all seeds today yeah yeah all the seeds and i think god wanted us to to talk about seeds yeah so clearly but i was thinking about that like um and actually father boniface hicks who we also love him love He was talking in a daily homily about this, about the hidden growth of seeds, that even the smallest seeds can produce the biggest trees, but it's hidden. That's right. It's hidden work and it's hard work. Seeds need to die in the ground before they grow. And that's what we're like, too, in this inner circle. We're like those seeds. Yeah.
00:43:35
Speaker
It doesn't cost very much to plant a seed, right? And it's not um it's nothing praiseworthy, I guess, like fame-wise or anything like that. You're not going to get accolades from doing that hidden work. yeah um But it's where the work happens in this first circle of connection. And so also it's often where some of the most beautiful growth happens too.
00:44:00
Speaker
Okay, what is our next area of connection? and And we'll call this the wider web. And so this includes friends, extended family and community ties. and These relationships add texture and resilience to life and they offer perspective beyond your household, which I really liked. um Friendships, you know, these are the friends that come and go during different seasons of life. And I think that sometimes we can look negatively upon that and think, well, these were just like little shallow, quick relationships. But I read the quote that some people walk with us for chapters, not the whole book.
00:44:36
Speaker
And that was their chapter. And I thought that that's really, and that's really interesting. Yeah. h I love the second circle yeah yeah or tier of connection. um And I think it's also suffered a little bit in terms of our modern understanding of connection yeah and what community is. It's kind of taken a bit of a beating because there's a lot in this day where it um you can be really selective, right? Because of the internet, because of ease of traveling,
00:45:07
Speaker
You can correct me if I'm wrong, Lindsay, but ah this is a sense I have. It's never been easier to curate your ideal social circle. So interesting. insane Yeah. And to dismiss those that don't quite fit this perfect vision in your head. Right. And yeah I think there's. your tribe That's right. And I think to a certain extent, there's benefit to that. There's great pleasure to be found in being with people who share your interests and your values. And I think it helps us form those closer bonds with people over time.
00:45:39
Speaker
But I sometimes think too, in this wider web, we can also... curate too hard. And we have, as a society, I think, lost a little bit of our ability to make community work, even when it includes those, because, you know, we're talking about friends, community, um even we'll get into a little bit with ah extended family and stuff, right? yeah And so we we have lost a little bit of our ability to make it work if they're yeah not necessarily chosen.
00:46:10
Speaker
And it's sad because I think everyone can kind of bring in new perspectives and stretch us in charity or in kindness when, you know, it's that wider community. But back in the day, we couldn't necessarily choose everyone specifically.
00:46:25
Speaker
So if you'll indulge me for a second, um I've had this longstanding perspective on friendships and extended family for a long time. I don't think I've ever shared it here on the podcast before, but it fits really well here. Have I ever talked about my Rachel Lind theory?
00:46:43
Speaker
What? Okay. but It's so quasi-developed in my brain that I've actually named it. Okay. The Rachel Lynde theory. um So basically, it's in reference to the character Mrs. Rachel Lynde from Anne of Green Gables.
00:46:59
Speaker
If you're unfamiliar, ah Rachel Lynde is a neighbor of Marilla and Matthew Cuthbert, the older couple who ends up adopting Anne, Shirley. Okay. um And Rachel is a busybody. She's opinionated. She can be very rude.
00:47:15
Speaker
And um like even in the 1985 movie adaptation of it, in one of the first scenes we meet her, she's at Marilla's house visiting. yeah um Air quotes there because she's actually just fishing for information about the kid they're adopting. yeah And she's just going on and on about how it's a terrible idea. And Marilla, who's just like serving her tea, like at one point she turns away from her and you see her roll her eyes. Like she's rolling her eyes, right? And that sums up their relationship. But my theory is this.
00:47:48
Speaker
If Marilla had lived today with all the ease of transportation and the internet and worldwide communications, would she have ever chosen Rachel Lind to be her friend? Interesting.
00:48:00
Speaker
And I feel like the answer would be no. Right. But at that time, they did have a relationship. They were neighbors. And so they were naturally a part of each other's lives. And they just knew certain things about each other.
00:48:13
Speaker
Right? Yeah. That didn't necessarily disqualify them from their lives. But also they just had to like take each other with a grain of salt sometimes. Yep. Due to their natural proximity. um And they made it work.
00:48:28
Speaker
And so, yeah, when we're talking about friendships and wider community for both a season, maybe longer, also extended family, I think it's important to...
00:48:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:42
Speaker
our community can be full of all kinds of people and even though we can't always choose who they are in our culture today we may be too quick to dismiss them if we don't feel the intimacy we're looking for if they're not the most convenient relationships, but they matter because they teach us all how to love and bear with one another. And it just takes us out of the mentality, this wider web can take us out of the mentality that my relationships need to just be serving me when really it it is about how we love and that's what makes connection rich.
00:49:17
Speaker
Well, I love that. there's okay This could be an entire new episode because you have me said thinking so much about how it was historically where you just couldn't pack up and move and you lived with those neighbors forever and you had to lean on each other. And now I don't i i barely know my neighbors. And so there's so much ah to say about that. And I absolutely love that. Michelle, there's a movie called The Banshees of Inishirin. It came out in 2022 and it has Colin Farrell. I was just trying to remember his name and i'm like, the guy with the big eyebrows. What's his name um yeah the eyebrows to deserve their own acting credit in that movie truly um and brendan gleason and it is on this tiny remote ireland island in ireland and i think like the 20s or 30s and it's all it's a lot of like what you're talking about like these people are bound together in a suffering because it's just oh my goodness not a tree to be found like just bare roads in one pub And about their their relationships as friends with each other and when it goes wrong. And it is a great movie. So, yeah, that is not what I'm loving this week. But let me recommend The Banshees of Inisharine. And Colin Farrell's eyebrows. Got it.
00:50:27
Speaker
I gotta check and see if his eyebrows have been nominated for an Oscar. Yeah. oh No, you make so many excellent points there. And it's like extended family. Okay. So like you share the roots, but you don't share daily life. And these relationships can be supportive or complicated or both. Right. Depending on on different people. But you're right. There was always like crazy Aunt Sharon or crazy Uncle Tony that just everyone came to everything. We just knew. And it came to everything. But now you're right. Like, are we curating too close to the sun? And we're just burning all of these relationships that don't service or don't make us feel good.
00:51:07
Speaker
Or I'm uncomfortable. It's just like yeah're we're creating this bubble around ourselves that is limiting our exposure to other people's experiences and what happens. We think they can add nothing to our life without realizing there's probably so much they can add to our lives that we just didn't have in our own schedule of what we think is perfect for us and and stuff.
00:51:27
Speaker
Yeah. Like, I'm sure, going back to my theory, to be published one day, I'm sure. Right. Of course. I'm sure Mrs. Rachel Lind, though, she made the best apple pie for the Yearland Church picnic. Right? Yeah. Her raspberry cordial. Yeah. Yeah.
00:51:43
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. um i was reflecting on this this morning because i would put my brothers in this circle not in a mean way but we just i don't have a sister and so you got two younger brothers that means there's not daily texting and checking in on each other like they're men they don't communicate in the same way that women do So we don't talk regularly at all, but we have a deep love for each other. We meet for each other's birthdays, that kind of thing. But what was interesting is while I was actually typing these notes this morning, my brother Josh texted me and he asked how Charlotte is doing. And that is not something that happens all the time.
00:52:16
Speaker
And it was for no other reason. He was like, yo. And I was like, what's up? And because, you know, siblings. And I thought he was like just going to ask for something else. But he said, how's Charlotte? That's all that it was like, what? And so we had a really nice conversation. And that reminded me, this is where this episode is edifying for me, um is that there are so many times with this group of people, I might have a second where you you have your phone in your hand and you're like oh I should just check in. Just send a quick was up. And, but then ah two things enter my mind. I think, well, I don't really know what to say to them. Like, is
Impact of Small Acts of Kindness
00:52:51
Speaker
going sound stupid? I know that they're suffering with whatever, and it's just going to sound glib, or like if I just say like one little thing. And then also think, do I have the time to be emotionally invested in their response? Like... If they write a lot back, right? Like, okay, i i might not have the social bandwidth or back. Like, they are not in my inner circle. Inner circle gets the text back quickly in the deeper conversation.
00:53:12
Speaker
But this is where I'm like, Lindsay, you're curating too hard. um Because... Those little messages, when they come to me from thoughtful other people, make my day.
00:53:24
Speaker
And they don't I don't ever think they didn't say the right thing. or they like I never even give it a second thought. That quick check-in means so much. And so I'm like, why am I overthinking it on my end? I know how good it feels on that end. Lindsay, send the text.
00:53:39
Speaker
Make the phone call to that group. And just check in with people. Yeah. Yeah, it's true because like there's a huge um area between the inner circle and just like acquaintances and ah and like parasocial relationships. Yeah, yeah. Right. and we I think we underestimate we can underestimate sometimes just how much of a part this wider web and it truly is maybe the widest circle of our social life. Yeah. Because it actually she goes you're right. Yes. Small than white than small again.
00:54:15
Speaker
Yeah. it really Like, this may be the biggest. Yeah. um The biggest circle. And so, because it touches so many different, aspects like, aspects of our lives, yeah, maybe we underestimate how involved they really are.
00:54:30
Speaker
Like, imagine this whole middle circle didn't exist. Yeah. That's a massive amount of people. Yeah. Yeah. with it Right. and so it's nice to be reminded how much this circle actually does matter because you could say like community and we talk about community all the time but it could be one of those words like love where you start um having different meanings for things it doesn't necessarily go as deep as it really is sometimes
00:55:01
Speaker
Well, my next line in my note says why these relationships matter. So let me tell you why. There you go. Tell me It says that they help relieve all of the burden and pressure on your primary relationships. You feel a greater sense of belonging and you have different people to turn to at different times. That first point.
00:55:18
Speaker
They relieve the burden and pressure of your primary relationships. There is only so many times you can call your sister. I'm guessing I don't have a sister about the same thing. Maybe they'll listen forever. I'm sure they will. But there's only so many times your husband wants to hear the same thing. Your mother. People need a bit of a break sometimes. Okay. And this is where the second group comes in. And they can take some of that pressure off.
00:55:41
Speaker
They also aren't involved in that intimate way in your day-to-day life. They, well, like, look let's look at it with wealth again. They are a diversified portfolio. um Right? Love that. Yep. They can stabilize your emotional economy. um So these relationships can provide much-needed benefits.
00:56:01
Speaker
Clarity, another point of view, a fresh take on something without the people who are really in the nitty gritty of it with you. So they have a really valuable role to play. i want to give a shout out here to my friends, Natalie and Rachel, who were instrumental in being there for me during Charlotte's extended hospital stay in the spring.
00:56:21
Speaker
But what they did so well And this is, again, what I suck at. So I'm going to just fully admit this. But they modeled it for me day in and day out. They didn't say, let me know if you need anything. Is there anything I can get for you? They just did it.
00:56:35
Speaker
They just popped by the hospital. Nat popped by... before work, after work, if she was on her lunch break, um she's like, I'm here, five minutes, come outside, get some fresh air. And she just stood with me. Rachel cut flowers from her beautiful gardens. I have never been a flower person. I joke all the time that I hate flowers, but Rachel made sure there were fresh flowers in my house. And I I started to realize this is going to choke me up that I never liked flowers, but I didn't realize like the fool I am that the flowers symbolize that someone was thinking about you, that they care for you. So every time I saw and then I got was like, well, how am I ever going to live without fresh flowers on my kitchen counter again? Rachel just made their sure they were there. There was one time we were sitting outside the hospital and I was starting to get panicky and I was like, OK, I think I'm going have to have rent Charlotte a walker, but I don't even know where to get that. I got to look into this. She left the hospital, called me 10 minutes later. I'm at the Walker rental place. I've i've rented it for you. It's done. It's going to be at your house.
00:57:31
Speaker
Like that's stepping out on a limb for someone. But she did it. They recognize those in those moments just to do the action. And again, it's like sending the text. I think we second guess ourselves so many times. Just do the thing. And so it really mattered. And I am never, ever going to forget that.
00:57:49
Speaker
Yeah, that's incredible. i have I also have a few people in my life who are like that. yeah My mom is actually a lot like that. like but they They just do it.
00:57:59
Speaker
And it's it's such a model for me, too, to to not worry about, like, am I am i overstepping?
Third Places for Social Interaction
00:58:06
Speaker
yeah You know, like, am I invading? But no, like, that really is A beautiful form of charity to do that for other people. And to know that you can find that, like, even amongst your your wider web, like this wider community, not just in the inner circle, but people really do care. i think that's what it really comes down to, right? it And it doesn't...
00:58:30
Speaker
Not everyone can be like you're your spouse. Yeah. We're not married to everyone. We're not polygamists. Yes. Yes. we We can't be that inner circle for everyone, like what you were saying. Yeah. but we But that doesn't mean that we can't can't care. Yeah.
00:58:48
Speaker
yeah Yeah, about everyone else, too. Right. And i love that um tagging it as a diversified portfolio. Yeah, that metaphor works so well. And I actually used it ah before we wrote up our notes this week when was talking to my daughter.
00:59:05
Speaker
Claire, earlier this week about just in in general, we're talking about friend groups and extracurriculars and why I think a diversified portfolio of a wider community, so it's so healthy. yeah um Not only do you get that care and you can extend that care to more people. Yeah.
00:59:26
Speaker
But you also get to know so many more different kinds of people. yeah And it broadens your own perspectives and experiences and your knowledge through your connection with them. Yeah. And what I have found, too, is that this wider web also prevents us from becoming too narrow.
00:59:43
Speaker
Yeah. And I have experienced that when I when i have phases where I feel stuck, Or I just feel kind of low. If I step back, it often is because my life has become too focused on too few things. Yeah. Yeah. um And centered around too few people, right? Like you've pulled in too tight. Yeah.
01:00:03
Speaker
Yeah. All the balls are in like in one bowl. Yeah, yeah. they're meant to be kind of spread out which is why we've talked about this why things like school drop off and pick up um for us it's like hockey practice swim practice those are i love that's why i love this wider web circle of connection because i do feel a real connection with all these people we have that shared experience that you talk about in the inner circle yeah But it's just a bit more diversified.
01:00:33
Speaker
And we may not have that intimacy of the inner circle where we diverge sometimes on other interests or even values and things like that. But when I'm looking those people in the eyes...
01:00:46
Speaker
In the moment, because we're just there right now at the time, there is real care. And I think that's why it's it's so valuable and maybe why it's the bigger the biggest circle.
01:01:00
Speaker
yeah Because we can sustain that level of care. For a really, really large amount of people. You're absolutely right. And I think that what can also happen is, and maybe for all these people who are struggling to get like deep friendships, I think that you're maybe missing the opportunities in this wider web, right? Through this time with those two girlfriends who were there for me, that deepened our friendship. They're inner circle now, but they started out wider web, right? People can move closer and friend. friendship when you create these opportunities to open up and to connect with people in your wider web. And these, I couldn't be more different than those two women.
01:01:37
Speaker
We have nothing actually in common on paper, but we have such a deep friendship now. But that's because I extended that web. I opened myself up to meeting and talking with other people. And lo and behold, it's like the world is great out there. Turns out people are pretty darn wonderful when you talk to them. Yes. And when we are only seeing things online and you stop talking to real people, ball ah your bubble gets all those balls get into that one, but that one bucket and it's going to burst. um So widen that web and then you create opportunities to to add people to your inner circle.
01:02:09
Speaker
Now, what you were talking about with like hockey practice or for me, school drop off that fits into what is called the third places theory. And this is it's like cafes, libraries, churches, gyms, salons, community centers, pubs, my personal favorite pubs. um These relationships aren't intimate like marriage or immediate family, nor are they just one sided like parasocial relationships, we which we will talk about later. Yeah.
01:02:36
Speaker
But these places provide, um like I read, a light touch, recurring, low-stakes social connection. Low-stakes social connection means not everything is hinging on your conversation. It's about the weather. It's about whatever, your drink that you're having, your meal. But it's a connection. And this widens our sense of belonging and our connection to the greater whole. And I think that like I've often said that that talking to the parents at school drop-off and pick-up is like all I need sometimes for that. That's the perfect amount of social contact contact. I know them. They know my kids. We live in the same community. We're going for a walk through my neighborhood, right saying hi to people. like You do feel like you're part of something bigger. Yeah. And we can't also underestimate the role that these things play. So I read that they play like us they have like a structural support role for relational wealth. um And even if it is friendly nods or these casual conversations and check ins, these absolutely help ward off loneliness. and And the term for this is actually called ambient belonging. Yeah.
01:03:41
Speaker
And i love that. Well, there's the countries in i think Scandinavia that are like having a checkout in the grocery store where the person is trained to spend waste lower and talk to you. Right. So they can be a point of contact for the lonely people in the neighborhood. They will actually stand and talk to you at the checkout. And I'm like, first of all, a how sad is it that that has to be a role created, but be how awesome it is it that that they're trying to create something. um And I'll just finish with this. um I watch a lot of YouTube videos about neighborhoods and and community development and like planning, urban planning. And um even my neighborhood, which is about almost 20 years old now, um they call it a front porch neighborhood. Every house in my neighborhood has a front porch. And it was supposed to spark community involvement and like people standing on their porches and talking. That doesn't happen. But that was an intention of the the planner. There are some planned communities in the United States where the very way that they're building the sidewalks, the winding streets, um where cars are parked, where it's not all garage at the front, um they're literally, and then they force people into a little city center again where you're talking to people. And so we cannot underestimate the importance of just our little daily nods people. This involves church. Church is a huge third place. um But yeah, i'm I'm fascinated by this concept, obviously.
01:05:00
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Oh, and you're not alone. i am too. i've i love that because that ambient belonging you're You're talking about. Yeah. I've often said one of my favorite feelings is feeling like I want to be with people, but not like with people. Yes. You know? And so like I am the person who loves to go and be in, say, like Indigo.
01:05:25
Speaker
Yeah. but Yeah. Yeah. Like by myself. And I part of it is books. Yes. But part of it is just being around other people who also like books. And that's different than being in Costco where you're starting with 2000 people and you can't wait to get out of there. You're right. Yeah. The environment matters. You're right. That shared sense of we're all because everybody. So Indigo would be considered in retail like a destination store. You don't usually just pop in. You're like, let's go to Indigo. Right. And so everybody that went there that day had the intention of like getting a coffee, browsing around, at the books. So, yeah, you're right. That share. There's a shared sense community there versus some other stores.
01:06:03
Speaker
Mm hmm. That's true, because the other place I would say would be like the mall. Right. Which, yeah, everyone just they went there to be at the mall for a while. Yeah. Not in and out. Right. Yeah.
01:06:14
Speaker
Yeah. And so this whole idea of third places is so interesting. It is the thing that will help the diversifying concept. Yeah. Right. And I came across this LinkedIn post that. by a lady named Katie Carroll, and I'm not familiar with her, but she had such a great um an insight into this. where she was writing that third spaces, and this is a quote by her, they facilitate an essential formula for building relationships.
01:06:44
Speaker
Connection plus commonality plus consistency. It's hard to actually deepen a connection if you don't have a reason to come together, a shared experience, and an ability to repeat it regularly.
01:06:57
Speaker
quote. End quote. And what I loved is that she broke it down to a formula. Connection plus commonality plus consistency. But I would actually just say that connection in this third space wider web just comes from commonality and consistency. Right. like right Repeat that enough. And like what we were just talking about, real friendships, close friendships can start to form. Yeah.
01:07:22
Speaker
And that magic formula is something that a third space does so well and so naturally. it just it gives us reasons to consistently see probably the same people over time, which is the familiarity.
01:07:35
Speaker
And we're probably seeing them in the same place over time because we've all chosen that space for a similar reason. Yeah. um And so it makes a lot of sense. And I think it's really worthwhile endeavor for us to consider if we have third spaces in our lives
Community Support Stories
01:07:52
Speaker
right now. And if not, where can we find them? And luckily, like what we were just talking about, even public places like a bookstore, a cafe that you enjoy, ah libraries, you know, we can find them. They do still exist. yeah And so we can start to plug in.
01:08:13
Speaker
It's my dream to be regular somewhere. when i When they first opened, I'm sure you're familiar with Williams Coffee, right? Williams Coffee, down but the first one was downtown in our city. And I first started going there in like 1994. And I went at like multiple times a week. And I was like tossing my hair back on cocky being like, they totally know who I am. Like I would just dream. It was the early ninety s It was like cafe culture. And I'm like... And I was like, I'm sure you know. i was like three months. i'm like, I'm sure you know what I would order. And they're like, never seen you. And I'm like, okay, it's an ice cap, you know. And so like, it's like, I've longed for that forever. And it's funny because like, we do have all of these needs for like different levels of connection. Like I have a great inner circle. I have a great wider web, but I would love to be recognized at one of those third places. And My kids aren't in sports. And I think sports is the perfect example of this. I have dared to, I don't even if I'm allowed to say this to like hockey parents, um but I actually wonder how much of it is their kid in the sport. I'm sure the kids enjoy it, but how much of it I've seen over the last 10 years become the parents really forming friendships. might i We're a hockey family growing up. My brother played all the way through. The parents didn't all hang out. They might be like one summer barbecue. Now it's like ah they're tight, tight groups, which I'm learning. And so i like it's really become that. And so, yeah, I think that we have...
01:09:37
Speaker
new needs on all of these different levels and you're right the opportunities are right there i worked in a store in pier one it was considered a destination store that's how i knew that term and let me tell you we had our regulars we would stand and talk to them forever i got excited when they came in i did know who they were and so yeah i just love that even for maybe our loneliest of listeners that you it is not without hope that there are all these places that you can go and and make friends Absolutely. Well, just a note about the hockey thing. yeah The hockey culture. When Phil broke his leg yeah last year, because it was at hockey too. yeah It was during hockey practice.
01:10:14
Speaker
Our team, the families on our team were blowing me away with their care of our family. Like, So many of them dropped off meals at our house yeah and they checked in all the time, texting, how did the doctor's appointment go? how's it going? When we would show up for the games and Phil couldn't come, obviously, for the longest time. They're like, oh my gosh, how's he doing? The kids were asking all the time. the parents were so invested. And when he did finally get to come back and he was, i think, able to coach a little bit for their very last games at the year end, ah tournament and everyone was so happy and I was like this is amazing that this is just like a found community for us so it absolutely happens and I will just say i have developed that regular connection and relationship with our a local pizza place now we have like eight pizza stores where I live and I have a small town it's the joke um but there's one in particular that we go every week yeah
01:11:23
Speaker
The same time. um And that they know us yeah there. They know to the point where now I usually pick up the pizza because it's on my way home.
01:11:33
Speaker
One time phil went to go pick up the pizza, but it was under my name. And he, the guy looked, he's like, you're not Michelle. Yeah. And Phil's like, how do you know Michelle? Yeah, I'm just kidding. It's like, I'm her husband. um But then also, too, I actually ordered delivery one time for something different. And the guy pulled up and he was like, oh, my gosh, Michelle. like, I know. This is where I am on Wednesdays.
01:12:00
Speaker
Right? And so, yeah, it's our our pizza place. And sometimes they give me, like, I don't know if I should say this because if they're listening, then they're not going to continue doing it. I don't think they listen. But sometimes they give me free stuff. Yeah. Because they're like, you just take an extra dipping sauce. Absolutely. an extra dipping sauce. Grab a pop from the fridge. I know. So it is possible. And it can just be something like your local pizza shop. We just love our local pizza shop. May I finish with a story about our pizza shop and hockey story? Absolutely.
01:12:35
Speaker
Absolutely. Not to compete with your pizza shop and or your hockey story, but I have one of each as well. So I you're reminding me of our close. Now, our so even smaller town has only two pizza places, which are our only two places to get food in our area. And we have long time been friends with our pizza guy. And when we did party um for Jason's new job back in the summer, I think I ordered like eight large pizzas. And he delivered them all and a bottle of Hennessy to congratulate my husband.
01:13:05
Speaker
With a card. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. From his family. So we find a pizza that they gave us alcohol. Okay. I think you kind of beat me. my free dipping sauce.
01:13:19
Speaker
Same dip. Which I still love. Yeah. And then you brought up an excellent point about hockey. So my nephew, um you know they you know who he they all play in the same – they play with your kids in the same yeah arena. And he broke his arm at the very beginning, brand new team last season, and was out for almost the whole season. however My brother and his wife are really good at forming community. They are excellent. They're like the most popular people in their neighborhood. They go to every event. They're like the king and queen of connection. Okay. And so that I, in my head, when their son broke his arm, I was like, sweet, you get all these nights with no hockey. Oh, no, no, no. They went to every game still. and I'm like, oh, my gosh, your commitment. So they took him in every game and their son cheered. he went into the change room every time he was cheering from the bench. He was organizing everything. They chose him to still be captain of the team, even though he wasn't playing. They gave him his C because of how he rallied them on and like connected them as a team. And this is a 15 old Wow. And so he's already learning that and that, you know, sportsmanship and all that. And I thought that is beautiful.
Parasocial Connections
01:14:25
Speaker
So just even from the sidelines, they still decided he was the captain of the team.
01:14:30
Speaker
It's incredible. So you can see how we obviously love this middle circle. Like when I said I love the wider web, I love the wider web.
01:14:41
Speaker
And i love the internet. So now we're going to talk about ah um this third, i guess, you know, group, like method of connection that is an ever-growing community, let let me say. um And that is what we're calling like modern and parasocial connections, um or as Chachi BT called it, and the edges of connection, which I thought was so poetic. Well done. Well done, Chachi BT.
Understanding Parasocial Relationships
01:15:15
Speaker
So we have talked about parasocial relationships, I believe, before we've touched on it. But just for those of you who aren't familiar with that term, um these relationships are one sided, right? It's like you consuming content. um from mostly like an influencer, somebody that you follow. So they don't know you, but people become to like increasingly feel like they know the person. um And but here's so even though it's one sided, here's the truth. These relationships still evoke emotions and real feelings from you, even though these aren't necessarily real friendships. Yeah.
01:15:50
Speaker
that This is a very tricky conversation because, you know, you and I were just saying before we even started recording, things are rapidly changing. It feels like every day everything is changing within the social media world and AI and all this. And so we understand that this is is a complicated thing. And I think we can talk about some of the things to be aware of, on like warning things, but also there are some benefits to these relationships as well. And one of those benefits is that these relationships can provide comfort without burden, right?
01:16:19
Speaker
Comfort without burden. And burden obviously has a negative connotation to it. But if we even just take out like, um like just considering the heaviness, right, of a relationship that you can just feel like, again, you're being social, and but without the burden or the duty or the responsibility of having to totally interact with the real person.
Comfort and Education in Parasocial Ties
01:16:39
Speaker
Mm hmm. is it's almost like you don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Right. When it comes out when it comes to parasocial relationships like that.
01:16:50
Speaker
Yeah. Because you're right. Like there can be an appeal and a risk. Yeah. Yeah.
01:16:58
Speaker
in those kinds of onesided parasocial relationships because you aren't obliged in any way ah you don't have responsibility for any part of the relationship right it's like all the fun parts of a relationship but without a but without the depth and richness of it because the depth and richness and real relationships often comes from like having to give grace um to forgive people it There's conflict sometimes. Yeah. Right. So, yeah, it can be an easy temptation um to live only in a parasocial relationship in today's world um yeah because it doesn't ask anything of you necessarily, but at the same time can give you maybe glimpses into lifestyles and cultures and things like that that you would never otherwise have ever learned about. Absolutely. Or seen, right?
01:17:51
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, and that's that's definitely like when we're talking about consuming content from like a content creator, whether it's YouTube or Instagram or TikTok or something like that.
Value of Parasocial Interactions
01:18:01
Speaker
And I think that it's, again, worth pointing out, and I think this might seem obvious, but it's still worth pointing out that these relationships, they can supplement, but not replace real relationships, right? um And that, as you were just saying, real relationships have a mutual responsibility. And I'm going to differentiate this parasocial relationship still with like,
01:18:21
Speaker
Let's call it like internet connection friends, friends on social media. You are listeners, yeah right? Some of whom you have become, we've never met in person, but we've chatted with you online and you care about Michelle and I, and we've cared about your lives. Like that's even a different thing here that we're talking about, like either parasocial right or internet connections.
01:18:39
Speaker
And another benefit of these relationships is that they can be good for your short term needs. um I was thinking like times in which you really can't put into words what you're feeling um And you just need to kind of feel it out um with somebody that you're not that isn't involved in your everyday life that you don't even look at in the face. um It can be a starting point for like healing or growth if you if it's something that's really personal to you. And again, you would like a more impersonal conversation. um but These are not long-term solutions.
Evolution of Social Relationships
01:19:10
Speaker
Yeah, that's actually a really good point. Because I think those short term needs that you were talking about was like, i i do that sometimes if I am feeling sad, or upset about something, when you come across someone talking about the same thing online, yeah you feel a hit of connection. Yeah. And you do feel like that, oh, okay, I'm not alone. And that, like you were saying, it's a starting point, it doesn't fix anything necessarily in my life.
01:19:39
Speaker
But that is a form of connection that exists today in a way that would never have really existed before the advent of social media. Yeah. Yeah. i remember were looking into a little because I was digging a little bit deeper into why. Okay. So now I'm going to transition more into like online friendships versus like influencers yeah um and why and how these relationships can feel just as real as the people in our actual everyday lives. And when I was doing a little research into that, it did mention like the old days of pen pals. There were a lot of pen pals people who had never met. So there is historical you know precedence for it's not obviously like it is now, but people have had that before. Or like the gossip column in newspapers where you're constantly reading about the society pages and these people. So it We've had it in different iterations throughout the past, but it is definitely, if there is something, I remember when stories became a thing and when people's cell phone cameras got better and it almost was like you were holding their phone in your hand as they were like showing you around places. Do you know I'm talking about? Like it got really clear at one point and I was like, my goodness, it's like I'm in their house. Like it's the one.
01:20:47
Speaker
And I just on a personal, on a very, very micro level, I can't tell you how many people have come into my house in real life for the first
Tech's Role in Personal Interactions
01:20:53
Speaker
time. I've been like, I've been looking at your house on Instagram for years. And I'm like, and it is so much smaller, messier and smellier than you could have ever imagined from Instagram. Who says that? That's what I say. But it's like, yeah, but it's so funny because that really changed things. But, you know, you could never get that with a society page or pen pal before that like, it was really stories that I think really changed even more, you know, than an Instagram post. It was like this people talking to the camera and seeing into their lives. And, That really changed things.
01:21:25
Speaker
That's very true. Yeah, I was thinking about that aspect as well, like legitimate friendships that come from an online platform. And yeah I remember to quote, it's attributed to C.S. Lewis that says, friendship is born at the moment when one person says to another What? You too? thought I was the only one.
01:21:46
Speaker
and I feel like a scroll through Instagram can be just one long session of that feeling. Yeah. Yeah. Right. When you see so many similarities and like you were saying, it's such greater clarity and detail than just reading about it per se or the pen pal thing. I actually fell into a bit of a rabbit hole with pen pals yes when I Googled it too, because that's what I was thinking. I'm like, there must have been pen pals throughout history who didn't start out being in real life friends. yeah
01:22:19
Speaker
And there was um one pair in particular that I was so intrigued by.
Historical Long-Distance Friendships
01:22:25
Speaker
Catherine the Great of Russia was a pen pal for 15 years with ah Voltaire.
01:22:31
Speaker
No way. Yeah. And they never met in real life. Yeah. So apparently it's like Catherine initiated it yeah because she was a big fan of Voltaire's writings before she became the Empress of Russia. And so she wanted to um kind of establish herself in the West. So she decided to just write to Voltaire like randomly. And he was so flattered and intrigued that he wrote back. And then they just kept going back and forth for 15 years. And they developed, it says, like they say, they developed a really deep friendship and a mutual respect for each other until he died.
01:23:09
Speaker
Like in 1778. So yeah, like today we have social media. But that idea of Connecting with someone because of maybe shared values or shared interests and not necessarily needing the in-person component for that connection to be real. I guess we think it's a new thing because of social media, but yeah, it really isn't.
01:23:33
Speaker
No, she slid into his DMs, eh? She did. Yeah. Oh my gosh.
Impact of Online Support
01:23:39
Speaker
Direct mail. Like for real. Direct mail. RDM. Real direct mail. Wow. Yeah. but That is so interesting. So yeah, I was like, okay, so what is it? What is it about these online friendships that you and I both have with people that feel so real, right? Like I wanted to dig into it a little bit more. And I just want to acknowledge again, because so much of these three episodes um were founded
01:24:05
Speaker
um on the experiences I had with Charlotte being sick. And so I just want to say here, like everyone, that i hundreds of messages I received of people who are praying for Charlotte and praying for our family. These are people we've never met, right? And those messages, those words, I'm fasting and praying for you. I went to adoration today for you and spent time in jesus with time with Jesus praying for you. We offered up mass for your family today. We were offering five rosaries for your family this week. Um, these gifts that we call a spiritual bouquet, these 1000% lifted my family up during those moments. And so I just want to see like those relationships mattered. That stuff, not only but were those words from people we've never met mattered, their prayers obviously mattered. And so i was so thankful for that. And so reminded, and and I could remind Charlotte every day that people are praying for you and connected to the story around the world. And that is such a wild feeling.
01:25:01
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's, I was thinking while you were talking about this aspect of online connection and how it relates to wealth.
Online Interactions as Charity
01:25:11
Speaker
Yeah. And that it's, it isn't like the huge principal deposit on an investment that you make or anything like that, but it still has value when it comes to a rich life. Yeah. Right? That we are maybe so um able these days to easily,
01:25:30
Speaker
give those little deposits of connection Yeah. to each other online and support one another it's it's almost like it's the flip side it offers a flip side to seen connection as wealth where you can have that transaction the ease of transaction back and forth And to be able to connect with people who you may not necessarily know well, and so picking up the phone may strange, yeah a life may feel strange, but you're still able to give a little bit of something back. um To be able to use the online form of connection as a form of charity is something really unique to our time and place in history.
01:26:13
Speaker
Oh my goodness, that's such a great way of looking at it, um an online form of charity. and And Yeah, just having been on the receiving end of that, it is it is worth, it is and I've talked about this before in this episode, but it is just that reminder that lighting that fire underneath my own butt, again, that like don't hesitate to send the little message, just the free words, right? It does mean so much.
01:26:34
Speaker
So these connections, right? And I'm like, hey, tell me more about the science behind behind
Brain and Online Bonding
01:26:39
Speaker
these connections. So I learned that people bond when personal stories are shared, fears and hopes are disclosed. And this makes people feel seen and understood. It's exactly what you were saying, like when you're scrolling, right? um And so that does create bonding, whether we want to accept that it's online or not. It is bonding.
01:26:59
Speaker
And here's the thing with online spaces. They can accelerate this because small talk is skipped. You're not running into somebody at the grocery store. Like you're not doing all that little small talk. um Sometimes when we're writing, a lot of people find that they're more reflective. They are more careful with what they say. um On the flip side, you're more likely to share private things, right? And then you might be with strangers or people you only run into. um And here's the thing. Our brains don't differentiate these conversations into online versus in person. The brain just says, this person understands me.
01:27:34
Speaker
Hmm. That's really interesting. Like, it registers connection but doesn't differentiate. Yeah. Yep. And then the some of the other things is, like, we don't have to worry about our appearance.
Ease of Online Connections
01:27:46
Speaker
and Things like status markers, right? Like, what kind of purse are you carrying when you run into somebody or or how old are you dressed? um And, like, how to perform in public or social graces. So, like, all of our etiquette tips, none of that matters, right? You're not being – So many of those out the window, right? Gone. um When you're chatting online, although there is online etiquette, obviously, but what we're talking about is like how so many of us can be so self-conscious. If you run into somebody that you haven't seen for a while, or you're sitting across from somebody at a coffee shop, like I know that maybe it's just, maybe it's just me, but I'm like, Oh, is, is my lipstick smeared now? I i took a sip of that coffee. Like you're just constantly running all these other things through your head. And all of that goes out the window when you're chatting with somebody online. In fact,
01:28:28
Speaker
We often connect and bond with our online friends during our downtime, our quiet time, those late nights. And so we're like at our most vulnerable in strip town. We're in our jammies. We've got like a face mask on, right? We're like, we we feel more laid bare than you would. And I think that that has a psychological impact when we're communicating with these people versus when we communicate in real life face to face with the people in our life.
01:28:53
Speaker
Mm hmm. It's almost like this whole cocktail of factors that play into social media and online relationships. They do.
01:29:05
Speaker
They they, like you said, can speed up the connection because it makes you feel almost like this person gets me. Yeah. Right? Because you, yeah, you can leave so much of the extra stuff by the wayside.
Echo Chambers and Growth
01:29:20
Speaker
I never thought of it that way. Like you almost immediately, you've probably connected online over something you share. So right off the bat, you didn't have to go through like the proximate little run-ins.
01:29:34
Speaker
Yeah. in the community and stuff i yeah i'm just i'm processing out loud because that makes a lot of sense but i never thought of it that way before yeah it's funny he said proximate because i have in my notes and this was from chat gp t but it said proximity is helpful but alignment is powerful Mm-hmm.
01:29:53
Speaker
I'm like, wow. Yeah. And because you can maybe choose a bit more you're who you're aligned with online, yeah you get closer faster.
01:30:04
Speaker
And then obviously the flip side of this, right, is the potential to be in an echo chamber, to get so deeply entrenched in your views because you're not talking to anybody else. Like ah like we're talking, there's always a flip side to all this stuff. Yeah. um But think you can. That's why, again, it's a short term solution or it can help you reflect and think, OK, how do I want to move past whatever I'm feeling in this moment? so as long as, again, what you said since what one of our very first episodes was on social media, right? Social media. think it was the first one. Was it the very first? That's so it was funny. Look at us coming full circle.
01:30:35
Speaker
And we talked then that it's fine if you use it as a tool and it's not using
Online Friends vs. Real-life Friends
01:30:40
Speaker
you. And so just always being aware of that. um There was one other interesting thing I read, and that's that online friends often check in on you more than your real life friends. And maybe it's because we're on our phones so much. Yeah, yeah.
01:30:54
Speaker
But I thought that's interesting. and And it is, it's, it's an ease, it's an, it's easier to connect with people than, and like I said, like, I'm so honest, it but when I think if I want to reach out to this person and check in, do I have the time, physical time to listen to whatever they answer me with, it might be like a whole slew of texts they send, right? And the emotional bandwidth and and social battery um to engage in that, but you can kind of pop in and out of online chats with people you don't know in real life and be like, Oh, no, I have to go. Sorry. Like, they don't know what you're actually doing. yeah um So I thought that that was so interesting, too.
01:31:25
Speaker
That's true. I was thinking, you said right at the beginning of this segment that ChatGPT called it, what, the edges of connection? Yes, yes. So it's still a part of yep connection. yeah But it is like these varying degrees connection.
01:31:41
Speaker
what it asks of you and so then conversely the depth you're going to get out of it but it doesn't say anything necessarily about the um importance the level of importance that it has like you said our brains can't really tell ah so it's just that it's such a unique mix of connections that you get from being able to check It really is. It's so interesting.
Significance of Online Friendships
01:32:07
Speaker
And I know that. I'm so thankful. I've got so many girlfriends on Instagram. Like, you know, these lovely, most of them are Catholic moms. And we've really connected over the years. And and I remember we were flying back from Calgary last year. And we flew over Saskatchewan. And we have so many of our listeners and friends on Instagram who were like, just move to Saskatchewan already. Like, you know, I'll live there. And I'm like, Michelle and I will one day take a trip out there. But we were flying over and I saw their town illuminated from the sky. And I Yeah.
01:32:35
Speaker
yes i wave and like you feel me up here i think this is as closest we're going to be right now um but i think all the time i joke all the time with so many online friendships i've created over years where i'm like when jason and i can do a big road trip through the united states when he retires like there's so many people on my list i'm like we are finally going to set and talk in person And those friendships are real. um I got to give a shout out to Jenna, who's been listening to us for years. And her daughter, who has always loved my mouse brows at a kit tip. yeah I'm known as Mouse Brows Lindsay in their house.
01:33:09
Speaker
And her daughter was going to be down in our area of the province. And, you know, her mom said, well, Lindsay, one of my friends lives down there. Maybe if you ever needed to, could pop into her place. She's like, Mom, I'm not going to go meet one of your random friends. And then her mom goes, it's Mouse Brows Lindsay. And she's like, I've got to meet Mouse Mouse Lindsay. These relationships matter. They really, really do. And I'm so I just I want to just say to our listeners and to the people follow us on Instagram, me individually, you individually, you do matter to us. And I'm very, very thankful for these friendships.
01:33:43
Speaker
Mm hmm. Oh, 100%. It's funny you mentioned Jenna, because I was thinking about Jenna, too. well yeah just yeah she's one of the She's one of the online friendships as well. You, Jenna, are one of the friendships online as well. That we both thought of, Jenna. Yeah. Well, i've i've I've talked to her on the phone. Oh, well, that's a whole level up. yeah I know, um because of like homeschooling. And I had questions about um she's been doing the homeschool program that we are involved in now. But when I was discerning it, I was like, wonder if Mouse Browse Jenna.
01:34:19
Speaker
Would be open to a phone call. like if And she was. And I was like, this is so amazing that you can call and connect with someone. So it can even lead to deeper friendships that move offline in real life or on the phone.
01:34:34
Speaker
That's you and i I'm just realizing right now. yeah. And I think we've talked about this before, too. Like, I had no Catholic community of friends when I was really coming into the church and taking taking it seriously. And met Catholic moms on on Facebook groups, realizing how many actually lived, you know, within 20, 30-minute drive from me. That all became real-life friends that I would have never known even existed had I not connected that with them in an online group.
01:34:59
Speaker
and you're what and look it And look at what's happened from our little online friendships. And look at us now. Use us as an example. That is so true. I'm so glad you brought that up because we did connect. And initially it was because of our lived proximity. yeah And then we went through all these different stages. We realized similarities in lifestyle, but also interests. And we shared hobbies. And then, yeah, it became something so much more. So not to discount how people come into your lives.
Embracing Connection Risks
01:35:31
Speaker
We we talked before a little bit about
01:35:33
Speaker
Not necessarily jumping the gun to discount who comes into your life. And so now within this outer edge of connection, maybe the question can be to be open to how people come in to your life because you never know where it's going to lead.
01:35:51
Speaker
So like you said earlier, um connection can be risky business. We, when we are interacting with people in our lives, right, we have to put ourselves out there and we open ourselves up, right, not only to lifelong love, support and companionship, but we also also risk being hurt and abandoned, betrayed.
01:36:09
Speaker
Lied to. This is the price of vulnerability, of opening our hearts, letting down our defenses, and trusting others. But it is a risk worth taking again and again because as John Dunn said, no man is an island entire of itself.
01:36:25
Speaker
Every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. Any man's death diminishes me because I am involved in mankind. Now, we did a whole Friday Finishing School episode on that whole poem that John Donne wrote. And that I think, Michelle, you're going to upload as a little bonus episode, right? h Yeah. For those who haven't heard it yet.
01:36:45
Speaker
But I thought about that and I thought, you know, I am involved in mankind. You are involved in mankind. Yeah. We've got to be there for one another. And it does start at home and it ripples outward.
01:36:58
Speaker
If the home is full of love and peace and joy, if it is rooted in truth, goodness, and beauty, those things pour like a river from your front door through your neighborhood and out into the world.
01:37:09
Speaker
Healthy connections have to be intentionally formed, practiced, and modeled for our children. They do not happen by accident and cannot be sustained without nourishment through word and deed.
01:37:21
Speaker
But as we draw to a conclusion, we wanted to share this message of hope.
Spiritual Connection with God
01:37:25
Speaker
There is one direction that we can turn to for connection that fulfills everything we think we need and even the things we are longing for that we might be unaware of yet. And that is God. There is a heavenly connection just waiting for you. God is always there for you.
01:37:39
Speaker
Psalm 116 tells us that God turns His ear to us when we call out to Him. It says, i love The cords of death entangled me. The anguish of the grave came over me. i was overcome by distress and sorrow.
01:38:02
Speaker
Then I called on the name of the Lord. Lord, save me. The Lord is gracious and righteous. Our God is full of compassion. The Lord protects the unwary. When I was brought low, he saved me. Return to your rest, my soul, for the Lord has been good to you.
01:38:19
Speaker
So return to your rest, my soul. My goodness, that is beautiful. Amen. And finally, I want to end on the words of Dr. Joanne Cacciatore. That is her last name, like the food. um There is simply no pill that can replace human connection.
01:38:37
Speaker
There is no pharmacy that can fill the need for compassionate interaction with others. There is no panacea. The answer to human suffering is both within us and between us.
01:38:49
Speaker
So is both within us and between us. And just between us, we're glad you're here.
Book and Podcast Recommendations
01:39:05
Speaker
Okay, it's time for our What We're Loving This Week segment of the show. So, Lindsay, what have you been loving this week? I have been wanting to tell you about this and tell everybody on Instagram, all of my Instagram friends about this, but I have kept this quiet because i i wanted to wait for this moment. So, I have the perfect little novella for you to read, Michelle, and for all our listeners to read right now in the darkest hour.
01:39:28
Speaker
bitterly cold days of winter okay it is ethan from written in 1911 by edith wharton now she wrote the age of innocence the house of mirth which i'm currently reading all those books of like the new york gilded age right and i'm like what is ethan from like i've seen that man like what is that even kept ignoring it And then I bought for like $1.99 on and I'm like, okay, fine, I'll get it. And I didn't know it was so short. Fine, I'll do it. And and I honestly thought, okay, I've read one Wharton. I'm good. Like I really don't after the age of innocence. But let me tell you, let me tell you, this book will stay with me forever. I'm still haunted by it. It's a quick read. um It is set in Massachusetts. And it is in the deep, dark, cold winter.
01:40:16
Speaker
And it talks about this man, the old man in town named Ethan f Frome. And it gives you his backstory and why he acts the way he does. And it is tragic and shocking. And it will have your heart racing as it reaches its big climax. I could not put it down. It was like 1.30 in the morning and literally my heart is pounding as it was ending. And yeah, it just, there could be no more perfect, like stop everything you're reading and just read Ethan Frome. Okay.
01:40:43
Speaker
Wow. And you've recommended so many good ah books and classics and stuff. But this, I think, is the most emphatic you've been. Yeah, I'm really loving this. I was like, this is all in all caps. And it's like, and it doesn't even sound like her other writing. And now I have such a love for her, right? Like, I was like, okay, that was good enough with Wharton after the Age of Innocence. But then I read this one that led me right into the House of Mirth, which goes right back to her like New York opulent skill today. But her, I just, the woman is brilliant.
01:41:13
Speaker
The woman is an incredible writer. And to switch tone like she did from both books, I just, I am absolutely. So after I finish House of Mirth, I'm going to go down the rabbit hole about her life. There's so much I need to know about someone who can write like this.
01:41:26
Speaker
Well, yeah. I was just thinking, like, she must be a fascinating person to be able to jump around different genres yeah like that. Yeah, absolutely. And 1911? Yeah.
01:41:37
Speaker
I was going to say, what genre would you put Ethan from Yeah. Almost a gothic romance. Okay. Gothic romance. I'll just say that. I don't want to say the other word because I don't want to spoil it. Okay. That's fair. Yeah. But you please, you'll read it over like the next couple days and then call me immediately on the phone. Okay. Okay, I will. Like, I'm actually just going to leave my closet right after this and download it. Yay! i my e-reader. Done. yeah ya And so what have you been... Try to top this, Michelle. What have you been loving this week? Oh my goodness, I don't know. Well, I have kind of told you a little bit about this one before. um and But it does kind of...
01:42:18
Speaker
you know, fit the wintry vibe. We've been having a really wintry winter. yeah And so it is that prime time you're looking to either hunker down with a good book as you recommend it or a Podcast.
01:42:32
Speaker
So I found a great new podcast. It's called the Sticky Notes Podcast. And I found it before Christmas. And it really deep dives into classical music and walks you through not only the history and the story behind the pieces, but also throughout the pieces themselves. Now, it's hosted and produced by Joshua Weilerstein, who is an American violinist. He's an artistic director, and currently he's the conductor for the Alborg Symphony Orchestra.
01:43:04
Speaker
So, on his web website, he describes the Sticky Notes podcast as, quote, a classical music podcast for everyone. Whether you are a beginner just looking to get into classical music but don't know where to start, or a seasoned musician interested in the lives and ideas of your fellow artists, this podcast is for you.
01:43:25
Speaker
The show features interviews with the top artists of today, in-depth looks at specific pieces from the repertoire, and more." end quote So the first episode i listened to was before Christmas, um when I was going through a major pas de deux from the Nutcracker phase.
01:43:42
Speaker
And Weilerstein broke down the entire Nutcracker suite by Tchaikovsky in an episode. And it actually inspired me to just sit down and listen to the whole thing start to finish, like the the whole symphony.
01:43:56
Speaker
And most recently, i actually put on his episode on The Four Seasons by Vivaldi for our family when we were on a just a long car ride up to visit my in-laws.
01:44:07
Speaker
Because my kids, they love the Max Ryder reimagining of The Four Seasons. And we all loved listening to the Sticky Notes podcast episode on it because Weilerstein pulled in the poems and the art that goes with each movement. And we actually talked about that too when we did the four seasons on the Friday Finishing School a few years ago.
01:44:33
Speaker
So all this to say, if you're looking for a little bit of commentary to kickstart your love of classical music, or you're hungry for more depth and insight into your favorite pieces, I highly recommend checking out the Sticky Notes podcast with Joshua Weillersheim.
Contact Information
01:44:54
Speaker
Okay, that's going to do it for us this week. If you want to get in touch and chat with us about our topic today, you can find us on our web website, www.themodernlady1950.wordpress.com or leave us a comment on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube at The Modern Lady Podcast.
01:45:13
Speaker
I'm Michelle Sachs, and you can find me on Instagram at mmsachs. And I'm Lindsay Murray, and you can find me on Instagram at lindsayhillmaker. Thank you so much for listening. Have a great week, and we will see you next time.