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TJ McGowan aka The Everyday Bite is a Bronx based writer, poet, and spoken word artist who has performed all over the Tri-State. His written work has been published in Flash Fiction Mag, Collective Unrest, 35MM, Mojave Heart, Vamp Cat, United: Red, BX Writers, to name a few. His body-autonomy poem, I Am Not Her Bones, and its incendiary performance was recipient of the 2019 Poem of the Year at the Word Masters Poetry Gala. The written version can be found in Wide Eyes Publishing's anthology, War Crimes Against the Uterus.
He has one full-length poetry collection, We Are Not One Thing, currently available for purchase. In addition to that, he is one half of the the trip-rock poetry and meditative metal duo, Subtle Bodies, most recently writing/directing the short poetic film for their debut EP, Apocalyptic Hearts.
When not slinging poetry or music, he spends his days as an Associate Producer for a Film & TV company based in NYC, contributing to script and creative copy on most of the productions that pass through the doors. He is also way more interesting than this bio, so come out to one of his shows and chop it up with him. Contrary to the stage name, he does not bite...unless provoked.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast and Hosts
00:00:01
Speaker
You are listening to something rather than nothing. Creator and host Ken Volante. Editor and producer Peter Bauer.
Introducing Guest TJ McGowan
00:00:17
Speaker
Hey everybody, this is Ken Filante with the Something Rather Than Nothing podcast. And lately, I've been bringing you a whole bunch of writers and poets. I'm very happy to have TJ McGowan here on the Something Rather Than Nothing podcast. Welcome, brother. Thanks for having me here. It's a pleasure to kind of be out here and chopping up.
TJ McGowan's Journey in Poetry
00:00:41
Speaker
yeah yeah that's what we're doing um uh encountered uh encountered your poetry and then before we popped on you know i had mentioned just seeing the uh the performance of the you know spoken word poetry and uh just just really uh really uh overwhelmed and amazed uh in in that and one of the things i wanted to mention before we start off is um
00:01:06
Speaker
you know within the show audio podcast and there's been times in the show where the only conceptual stuff which is part of the fun of the show but there's just something about when I've had you know guests on and whether it's the music I cut to or a spoken word or reading from the novel just
00:01:27
Speaker
I don't know. I just love the energy inherent in that art because it's right there. And that's part of a big reason for having you on. I just really feel it. So yeah, really, really great to have you on. But I wanted to ask you
00:01:43
Speaker
uh, you know, just generally right off the bat. I mean, tell the listeners about, uh, what you do. I understand you run around in the New York city area up there in the Bronx, uh, doing poetry. What's that mean, uh, for you? Like what, what, what's the experience like for you doing that? Um, always, always kept a journal, always wrote, always kind of dug poetry when I was younger and growing up, but kind of kept it to myself.
00:02:13
Speaker
for a long time. And then maybe I started sharing it, more of my written stuff online, things like that, trying to submit places. And then I just was going through some stuff, long story short in life, had relocated back down towards the city, living in the Bronx. Someone told me, you know, that knew I wrote poetry.
00:02:39
Speaker
Oh, you know, right over where you live, there's an open mic. Maybe you should go read. I was shit scared of that for a while. And then I know something came over me. And I was like, I'll go there. No one even knows who I am. I can just read and and see what happens. And I went, I signed up. I didn't even know anything about that. So I signed up first because I was there so early. So then I broke the ice. And then and so then I just do my thing.
00:03:07
Speaker
And there was just a few people there that, including the host that just kind of took to me and come back. You should, you know, there's, then, oh, you should go. There's this other one down here in the South Bronx. There's this other one over here. I know a buddy that does this one in Brooklyn. And I just like, I fell in love with it. And it became just like the healthiest addiction that like, I felt like I could have. Um, and, and then just being in New York city.
Art and Philosophy as Liberation
00:03:33
Speaker
You just get into a lot of rooms where it's a mixture of written read, it's spoken word, and there was something about the power of watching others work and word artists sort of emote. And it's theatrical to a sense, but pull from like a real emotional place to kind of make that be part of what you're doing. And then I just never looked back. And yeah, for me, it's just a place, it becomes a,
00:04:03
Speaker
I feel very free when I'm doing it. And then, yeah, it just kind of took off from there where it kind of built a little bit for myself here in like the tri-state area to perform and start to get features and things like that. And it's just a very freeing thing for me. It's therapeutic to a sense, but I really feel like I get to be myself when I'm performing.
00:04:32
Speaker
Yeah, I love that you said that. I mean, part of the part of the show, you know, doing art and philosophy, and I put it in there and mention it to folks as kind of liberation, you know, that overall concept. And if there's one thing I like about, you know, doing the show and talking to guests is that
00:04:54
Speaker
That many times they move to a point in their art that they're being themselves, you know, like things aren't perfect Like how do you be a poet? How do you get a gig? Um, you know with music, you know, there's struggles in there but um kind of inhabit in the space where you feel more like yourself i've done this as as a host and uh
00:05:16
Speaker
you know, as an engaged brain, like yourself, like you're, you know, I can see how in creating a transforms and I didn't know all that besides in the doing right like in the doing how you find how you find that out.
Authenticity in Poetry Performance
00:05:32
Speaker
What was it like that that initial feeling of being affirmed? Right. So you're scared and shitless. You're jumping up there. You sign up for you. But not just that, like as you started, what was it like for you to have some of the information, affirmation, you know, as a poet? What was that experience like? It came like pretty quick in the sense of the fear going away because the host of the show I mentioned
00:05:59
Speaker
That was like a November ish, I think it was like, it was like late fall, early winter, something like that. And at the end of the show, she came up to me and said, Hey, you live in the neighborhood. Uh, you know, I'm trying to feature more people that are like actually in this neighborhood. Would you want to be our January feature? So I'm like, I'm, I, this is the first open mic I even signed up for. And I'm being asked.
00:06:27
Speaker
Can I do 10, 15 minutes, like two months from now? And it kind of, I was, you know, you get imposter syndrome. What did she, did she hear the same thing? Did she think I was the other guy or yeah. You know, and so, and, and part of it, oddly enough, she said she was like, there's bravery in being willing to break the ice. Meanwhile, I'm like, I didn't even know what I was, like, I didn't even know what I was doing. And then they just called my name first and I was like, Oh shit, I guess I'm,
00:06:55
Speaker
I'm going first. I'm not going to walk out now. And that kind of accidentally tripped me into her kind of approaching me to do the feature. Then I realized I was afraid of the performing part, but I actually wasn't nervous about going first. It was more about being vulnerable and sharing poetry that's dealing with personal stuff.
00:07:24
Speaker
And then it kind of snowballed from there. And I went to other places. And then when I started to, I really got fascinated watching a lot of the spoken word artists turn it into a performance piece where it wasn't that it was, because I rewrite, I'll perform whatever way I feel like it. But it was something about, oh man, if I could just get
00:07:51
Speaker
away from the mechanics of holding the paper. And if I could, if I could like, allow my because I talk on my hands, as you see right now. Yeah, you know, like, you know, some I'm like, oh, man. And then one of them had said to me, that's what led him to do it because he felt he was bottling himself and that people can be like, you're shaking up there. And it was more of I can actually speak my poems the way I actually speak in real life to people where I love to use my hands.
00:08:21
Speaker
And I love to accentuate. And I love to look at people. And that was another big thing, too, when you really start to make eye contact with people, is where I started to feel very comfortable in that, oh, I am actually being myself right now. I'm not acting these emotions. This is how I truly feel about this poem. This is either the wherever the place that it came from in me. And now I'm actually getting to be me in front of people.
00:08:51
Speaker
It was like a snowball effect, the comfort. Now I get nervous in the sense I've narrowed it down to where the only audience member is me. And so I just get nervous because I want to impress myself. That was another big thing too. You have to be like, I'm not writing stuff for the people in the room. I'm writing stuff for myself. And then you hope there's a connection
00:09:20
Speaker
to the people in the room. But I started to kind of like compartmentalize and distance myself where it's like, if I'm a satisfied audience member to myself, then that's kind of all that started to matter to me. Yeah. And then, and then it just feels like you're, you know, it becomes like, like anything else, once you're used to it, and you enjoy it. I always tell myself, I'm like, if, if I decide I don't enjoy it anymore, then I'll have to reanalyze
00:09:49
Speaker
If I'm still doing it for myself or not. Yeah, shake it up and do it that way.
Interplay of Art and Philosophy
00:09:57
Speaker
You know, talking a bit of philosophy, you know, when I studied philosophy and a philosopher, you know, I've always been interested in the interaction of art, you know, like, because philosophy and art tend to be like, you know, the big ideas of why we're doing all this type of thing. And I wanted to ask you the question, like, early on here about what is what is art? What do you think art, what do you think art is?
00:10:28
Speaker
I mean, from my own sort of experience, I mean, it's like, it's like, it's, it's sort of the, the individuals, it's the hidden language and trying to explain your, your sort of lived experience, both internally and how that
00:10:57
Speaker
how that hidden language exists both internally and externally within the world. And the internal language becomes more clear, the more honest you are, I guess. I mean, I guess art to me is, it's kind of like an honest hidden internal language that for some reason only you know how to speak to yourself.
00:11:24
Speaker
the the
00:11:53
Speaker
It's like a sacred internal language built in honesty. That is both yours and open to be everyone else's, which is I think the really scary part of it is because then there's external interpretation to that language, right? Like if you started speaking French to me right now, I might be able to gauge on your
00:12:19
Speaker
the context in your inflection of what you might be saying, but there's going to be a whole bunch that I don't know that now I am projecting onto that as to what I might interpret it as.
00:12:34
Speaker
In language, I guess I'll go, I'll stick with that. Yeah, it's interesting you mentioned that, about the language too, and I love that approach. I was been rewatching kind of seminal and obviously a difficult text by Claude Lonsman Showa. It's a nine and a half hour movie about the Holocaust. But one of the fascinating pieces for me was like,
00:13:01
Speaker
I had to situate myself within the cadence of speech because
00:13:06
Speaker
you would have, you know, one language spoken and then it's a French film. So it's a French interpreter. And so you have, I'm really watching somebody speak in, whether it's in Yiddish, German, Czech, and you know, what meaning do I glean from that? And then there's the French translation back to Claude Lanzmann. And then you see what the translation is. And it's, I haven't really had, I remember back to watching it the first time, the experience of,
00:13:33
Speaker
Like, oh, I'm feeling the emotions in the body and the ups. And I think I know. And then there's like this kind of revelation in it. And it's just been such a unique experience. And I'm thinking about what you said. I wanted to ask and follow up. I mentioned a couple comments. Normally I ask what's the role of art. But I'm going to ask you the role of poetry. And I want to mention a couple things.
00:14:00
Speaker
Within the tradition of philosophy, there's a few points that poetry is brought up as a huge topic with strong opinions. You find it in the history within Plato's philosophy that the poet is to be banished from the ideal city. In Plato's critique, which is kind of ancient, but at the time was that
00:14:26
Speaker
You know, the gods were important, and what poets did was kind of mess around with the gods, that it wasn't honoring the gods. So the poet was viewed with suspicion. And fast forward to another extended study I've had of poetry within philosophy is Martin Heidegger, the German philosopher, had an essay on the question concerning technology.
00:14:57
Speaker
early concerns about technology and the potential for technology to supplant the human or the need for a human endeavor. And in this wonderful flourish, which either infuriates you or you love, and I loved, towards the end,
00:15:14
Speaker
for Heidegger within that, the saving grace, the saving power is poetry. Poetry as the form, poetry as the way of expression in particular for him was Hölderlin's poetry within Germany. So like I've always, not always, I think about when poetry is brought up in philosophical terms, it's like
00:15:33
Speaker
You know all this way to like banish the poets historically to Like the poets will have the answers because we can't explain it in our philosophical terms We can't convince everybody but a poet is gonna grab at the heart a poet's gonna
00:15:49
Speaker
go, go in, um, uh, it's going to go in like that. So I wanted to ask you, uh, more limited, what's the role of poetry we're in 2024.
Role of Poetry in 2024
00:16:00
Speaker
This will be a crazy political year. People, things have changed that people feel, but what, what do you think the role of poetry is like, say now, uh, in 2024? It's like initially, you know,
00:16:19
Speaker
I feel like as a poet, you always want to say it's the rebellious, and it is. But I feel like that's actually really tough to do. But in rooms and in what I'm up close and personal with other poets and whatever they're doing,
00:16:47
Speaker
connection, maybe, you know, I think there's like a, they're a connector in a way that, that you're expressing the emotional truth in a way that others feel that they might not be able to express that way. Sort of, there's a way to give words to connection to self and connection to others that maybe others can't find the words for.
00:17:17
Speaker
And that's just based off of what I just feel, like I feel and see in, I guess, in modern times when I'm in rooms with poets and they're performing, that there's sort of always like kind of the outskirts of, yes, you know, some people believe the poet is the ultimate rebel or, but yeah, I would think
00:17:39
Speaker
there's a sense of connection and speaking into the world an emotional truth that reverberates within other people that might not always have the words for that. And I think I even see examples of that even in my own like circle of friends or family that don't necessarily, you know, get down with poetry like that, but sort of when they give it a chance sometimes, even whether it's mine or other ones I share with them where they're kind of, you know,
00:18:08
Speaker
Yeah, I feel that way. I don't know if I know, I don't know if I would say it like that, but I feel what these words are expressing. Yeah. Yeah. I, um, yeah. Well, for me not to interrupt, but I, um, as a philosopher and you know, I'm, I'm good with words and lyricism. I'm really sensitive to it that when, when others do it, but I've, for me, the way I've described it, when I've encountered is that like,
00:18:35
Speaker
There are things like a philosopher can express, but there's some
00:18:40
Speaker
There's some crystallization with words, with the poet, and I don't know if that's the right word, but you cannot combine words, you cannot combine ideas except for in poetry that give that its form or its openness. For me, I could try to explain the philosophical concept of free will or try to have that discussion.
00:19:07
Speaker
you know, the the two conjoined words in line three of the poem might have already done all the heavy lifting. So no, yeah, it's sort of like when you look at anything. Whether it's it's instructional or you're making music or, you know, there's a science to it all. Like, you know, like there's there's frequencies in music that there's like there's a breakdown to the science of that. And then with philosophy, like there's there's ideas that have been examined
00:19:36
Speaker
that, like, yes, a philosopher could break this down and sort of explain the how-tos and the lies in a very, you know, way, how do I translate this? And then poetry is, it's like this odd breaker of rules where it's trying to kind of like, you're sort of trying to mix and match these big broad ideas that you feel existentially or whatever. And there is sort of like a pattern to how you decide to form your words.
00:20:06
Speaker
But it all goes back to, well, I'm still basing all of this on this feeling. And to define feeling is just, I always feel like I'm just constantly chasing an impossibility with poetry. You know, I'm trying to give words to a, like an innate, like I can't even hold it. And I'm trying to give it these, like I'm trying to give it audible meaning.
00:20:34
Speaker
which is which is why I think I grew up gravitating towards more like performance poems because I can enhance that through through my own emotive movement. It's like part of the part of the movement I picked up on on that. I mean, people pointed out like in my head, maybe it's so super rational, not realizing within movement, movement and sound and, you know, exploring that within the show of dancing and seeing
00:21:02
Speaker
like all that energy that comes about through that. I wanted to drop in a little bit, maybe in your mind talking about some of the work you do around sound.
Influence of Music in Poetry
00:21:14
Speaker
and music and that combination. For me, I grew up early hip-hop in the 1980s up in Rhode Island. The kind of lyric form that I've had throughout my life is kind of popular. Hip-hop, hip-hop culture, lyricism, dropping the truth that way, funny rhymes, all that stuff.
00:21:41
Speaker
I've realized in having poets on the show, the power or the importance or maybe on the presence of that way of telling there. Can you tell us a little bit about sound music and some of the work you do around that to combine these elements or accentuate them?
00:22:11
Speaker
I think with anything, I constantly want to push my own personal boundary and see if I can handle something. And I think that's just the natural progression. My words were only on a page and then they went from a page to coming out of my mouth. But then I noticed when I look back at the influence of so much from probably my childhood, where I grew up,
00:22:38
Speaker
with a sister and a lot of older friends that infused hip hop into my ears. And then I had a dad that was listening to sort of classic rock, borderline heavier rock. And then a mother that was listening to sort of like Elvis and the Beatles. And there was just all these sounds coming at me at once. And I felt like I started to see that even when I was performing, that there was starting to be an innate rhythm in how I was performing, even though there was nothing
00:23:08
Speaker
audio wise backing me. And then naturally you gravitate, you know, growing up around the city and then going into like a spoken world world based in New York city. So there's going to be a whole influence of hip hop right off the bat that is in spoken word rooms and how rhythm comes from that. And then I started to dabble in mixing that
00:23:37
Speaker
First, I did my own kind of spoken word album a couple of years ago that was sort of tackling some heavy stuff. My relationship with my father when I was younger, he died when I was younger, and had a lot of more hip hop influence and had a lot of friends within the city that were dabbling in that sort of mixing things for me. And that was great. It was a good experience.
00:24:04
Speaker
And my buddy Denny, who I do some stuff, was also on it with his guitar. And then I kind of, again, I was like, I took a step back and I was like, well, I do love all that, but I also love all of this too. And so I started to think like, well, how do I do my version of spoken word? And so I kind of really started messing with
00:24:29
Speaker
what I love about like kind of written red poetry and what I love about spoken word and trying to push them together and and take by my love for both hip hop and kind of more. We're talking before we got like psychedelia, psychedelic rock, heavier stuff. And how do I kind of merge these? And now I feel like I've tapped into that
00:24:58
Speaker
particularly with my buddy Denny that we sort of have a duo, we call ourselves subtle bodies. And we did some stuff over the years. And now we're really trying to push kind of all the things I just mentioned that we both kind of love into our own sort of vibe or sound or whatever you want to call it. But it's cool because he's letting me live out my dream of being in a rock band.
00:25:27
Speaker
even though I can't sing for shit. And so it's cool that he's just like, No, man, like you do what you do. Like I want you here because I want you to do spoken word. I want you to do what you do. And then and then it's like, you know, and then with him, he does what he does. And so it's been fun. It's been sort of like a learning curve. But but it's, it's enhanced.
00:25:53
Speaker
I think my creativity, I think it's enhanced my passion. And I think it's just enhanced me as a person. It's like helped me grow, get in there and you're overwhelmed at first. And then you're starting to see, uh, it all gets like clarity. Um, I always compare new things to, I was with sports, like when they say, uh, uh, when I want to, when a rookie quarterback goes from college to the NFL, the game is too fast for them at first. And then as they get used to it, the game actually slows down.
00:26:22
Speaker
And so I feel like that's how it was when I first started mixing music and other stuff with my voice. And then now I feel like it's been a couple of years. It's actually starting to slow down where I can see the influences from all the things I love throughout all those avenues.
00:26:41
Speaker
Yeah, it's great to move into that space. I was checking out subtle bodies there and really, really, really dig on what you're doing there. And yeah, like I said, the, you know, the interaction of the sounds, you know, of the music and yeah, it's it's it's it's definitely definitely a great, just a great place to go to. I wanted to ask you, maybe there's the the lead in to
Feminine Influence in TJ's Work
00:27:10
Speaker
something rather than nothing question, but there's a distinct and important presence of the feminine in your work, in the poetry, in the title, God is a Woman. And I wonder, you know, we're just sitting here talking about this and I would say that for my show,
00:27:34
Speaker
Um, you know, I was trying to say, well, uh, you know, how do, how do we interact with folks? And I, I represent, you know, three out of four of my members within, you know, union work or women. And I have ended up with just a billion conversations that are
00:27:53
Speaker
the ones you might have with your union rep or the ones you have when you're struggling, you know, so personally and professionally. And through that, the show has really been honoring but celebrating, not me being excited by talking to all my guests, but the importance of women and female first athletes and such.
00:28:15
Speaker
But um, so, uh, could you talk a bit about, uh, that that work, um, and, uh, you know, the, the presence or your, um, uh, relationship, uh, with, um, uh, the feminine in your work. Sure. Yeah. I think, I think I always just had good relationships, uh, with women. And I also think I've,
00:28:44
Speaker
It's because of losing my father when I was a teenager and my mom just being the everything. And my sister, my older sister, just these sort of powerful, I look at some of the stuff that my mom had to go through with all that and keep it together, losing your husband and then having to still raise your son. And so I think there's always just been, and then in my family,
00:29:11
Speaker
very strong, powerful women that kind of always looked after us. And so I think there's always been sort of something in my mind that there's just a power and a strength. And then as you age and you just learn other experiences and what people go through and different things like that, it was just always, I want to say interesting. I look at things where,
00:29:40
Speaker
I can't grow as a person if I'm only ever putting myself in situations where it's someone that would be in the same shoes as me. And whether that's personal growth or artistic growth, there's just so much to learn from people that aren't in your shoes. And I just find that throughout life, art
00:30:04
Speaker
there's just obviously like a feminine power that thrives and also just within individuals. And I would say vice versa, you know, that there's like a masculine power that is built within the feminine too. That, you know, I believe in that kind of like interesting duality where we're like a container of everything, whether we like to think of it or not, where, you know, there's as much
00:30:32
Speaker
and the simplest terms, light and dark. You know, I believe that there's all these ingredients within all of us that if we allow ourselves to be open to them, that, you know, through other experiences, they'll actually tap into it within us. And whether, you know, so is a man. So these interactions and relationships you cultivate with women will actually, if you're really listening and experiencing, we'll start to
00:31:01
Speaker
make that prosper within you. And so I think a lot of it just stems from both a lived experience and the benefit of having, you know, like strong women help raise me and then have great sort of lasting personal friendships with women. And then even delving into sort of like the romantic side of stuff and just analyzing that
00:31:32
Speaker
It's just always been, it's just one, interesting to allow that grow within myself. And then two, if you do start to cultivate a voice or a presence in a space or whether it's New York City or the Tri-Sayer or whatever it is, I mean, there's always part of me that's actively thinking, how can I, like,
00:31:56
Speaker
utilize my voice in different ways, but in a way that feels like it's still my voice and I'm not just like preaching to the choir and even that experiential life within like artistic circles and still seeing how women are sort of like held down or have to work differently in the room or what person's trying to leverage their power of this space to you know like and so even that you're like you take a step back and you're like
00:32:27
Speaker
I could just step into the room and be as comfortable as fuck, as all as I want because no one's going to mess with me or whatever it is. And I think that's all just been embedded into my brain. And then in my artistic life, I've just cultivated a lot of great friendships with some amazing female artists that I have these sort of
00:32:53
Speaker
I guess, intellectual conversations with the feminine, the masculine, and just the blending of how that feeds into our lives and how that can feed into our art. And God as a woman came out of all of what I'm kind of saying to you. But as a reflection of I'm not, I'm actually not religious. And someone had a female friend had proposed to me, well, and how would you identify God? I just kind of kept coming back to like all these different
00:33:23
Speaker
aspects of femininity throughout my life, whether it was familiar or sexual or romantic and how that was fueling that. And I was like, oh, I think I would say God's a woman in the here and now.
00:33:40
Speaker
Yeah. And, um, well, one of the things, uh, and, and, and I appreciate that and it's a great conversation.
Renewed Energy in Poetry
00:33:48
Speaker
I, uh, I, uh, I found, um, and maybe I'm looking back to when it comes to kind of, um, uh, artists and, um, I would say, um, uh, literary giants in, in my own head and, and recently, uh,
00:34:06
Speaker
an outsized influence of Kathy Acker and her punk writing poetry and attitude. And recently, a very important artist in my thinking, Sinead O'Connor, I'm going in a deep study, which really, for my own brain and the bean I have upstairs is from my own understanding
00:34:33
Speaker
of everything that was important and what was the complete rebel or what was the complete rejection of crime and misogyny and, you know, like in just the full reckoning of that. So it's really been an exploration for me. But I found myself too with having more poets on the show, reading more poetry and really encountering
00:35:02
Speaker
You know, I've studied literature my whole life and sometimes you get in a weird funky ass mood and you're like, I can't read anything new, like, I don't know, like, where's the new shit, right? And for me, it's completely obvious. Some of the brilliant, you know, small press writers and these novels and I've talked about going to Paul's books in Portland, which would stock these things and make sure that they're there.
00:35:31
Speaker
And it's like there's so much great energy around poetry and a lot of collections that I've read and I've really gotten into Morgan Parker as a poet. Just like it feels so fresh and alive. And it was great to hear your...
00:35:50
Speaker
You're thinking about like in 2024 and like what poetry has to bring because let's face it, right? It's always the smirk. Oh somebody's writing poetry Oh Jesus, you know, like that type of right. We know it. We know it right here in school and you're studying poetry and it's that shit I'm gonna read my dick. It's Emily Dickinson on the lawn and you know, fuck y'all like that's what I'm gonna do but it's that's the weird dude over there doing that but um, uh, so I i've um
00:36:16
Speaker
It's been a great opportunity for me to connect like on the show and into poetry and something I really
Why is There Something Rather Than Nothing?
00:36:23
Speaker
enjoy. I just adore words. So before I let you go and connecting from that point of God as a woman, something rather than nothing question, which I'm sure either you want to take a crack at or you really don't, but I'm going to force you into it. Why is there something rather than nothing, TJ?
00:36:50
Speaker
I mean, the practical part of my brain, you know, wants to tap into that. Yeah. This just happened. And that me sitting here talking to you is some well, you said coincidental framing of events that sort of smashed atoms into each other and
00:37:18
Speaker
I'm me because this environment could only create this type of organism. And you know, and I and but I exist, I'm here, I'm talking to you and I'm breathing. And I think for me, the something is of our own making, whatever we want to, you know, I think
00:37:46
Speaker
And I'm fine with the fact that something might be a facade and that this all might be nothing. I mean, I am pretty much an atheist. I guess the easiest way to explain what I believe. And I am comfortable with nothing that I am comfortable that I might just turn off like a light bulb. But I think because I'm okay with that.
00:38:12
Speaker
And I'm sitting here and I'm talking to you, we're having this great conversation on a Sunday afternoon that like, that's the something to me that the, that we, I guess that the easiest way is we're emotional beings. And I think all living things are emotional beings into some capacity, whether how simple or complex they are. And that emotion, that feeling, that thing we can't get the perfect words for.
00:38:42
Speaker
Is some is to something and I guess whether after I die, there's a whole bunch of nothing right now Joy feels really good when you can grasp it and yeah And honestly in a weird way sadness can too if you turn it into something fruitful And I just I don't I don't even know if this is an answer But I literally can't wrap my head around
00:39:13
Speaker
You know, uh, um, the the why this like it's more like it i'm kind of giving the it's happening right now Yeah, yeah the tangible. Yeah, that's why the why It's just I you can't I can't wrap my head around like, you know The knot I always think about like do I remember? But I have any conscious memories of before I was born
00:39:44
Speaker
Well, that'd be what happens. Well, that'd be what happens. Yeah. And and I don't even have a lie to that. But I think if, OK, if then I'm giving this much time. I can choose. To make my something. That just be as good for myself, and this is like me talking now, you can talk to me, you know, when I was 15, it'd be fuck, fuck everybody like. Yeah.
00:40:15
Speaker
That if that is true say there isn't I was nothing before now and I might be nothing again Something I think is in what we're doing right now a connection a fruitful connection one that might reverberate outwards and maybe this conversation Bounces off of other people and That that that we could it's more I Can't answer the why this
00:40:43
Speaker
Well, there is something and I think actively choosing that if I believe there might be nothing afterwards that the something right now can be in my sphere of control, which is very little for all of us is that we, you can just, it's such a corny thing to say, I guess, but like you, you can,
00:41:13
Speaker
make other people feel like they matter, or you can put more joy or happiness into the world, like genuine joy and happiness into those you connect with. And I think that if that rewards me now, amazing. If by some crazy happenstance, I'm wrong, and there is something after this something,
00:41:36
Speaker
and that built me some credits to go up instead of down. I'm with you on that. For me, to obviously be honest, the whole theology, I'm agnostic. Politically, I'm an atheist because I don't like to engage in the question. I like to engage in other type of questions. That's my own particularity.
00:41:56
Speaker
But I always like, for me, the philosopher Pascal, and it's Pascal's wager, and he just says at the end of the day, this is the most honest argument. It's like, all right, I got my chips, right? And if I'm going to put my chips somewhere at the end of the day, I'm going to put my chips on the eternal, on the God. And I'm like, I can understand that. That's the most honest thing in the world, because at the bottom, no matter how we feel about God, Allah, Yahweh, or anything, it's like,
00:42:25
Speaker
or well when it comes down to it. It's kind of like I never even thought of it this way that you're you're we're kind of just gambling our way through this whole thing you know and I think maybe now that I'm thinking of it that way is why I lean towards all right well if I truly believe there's there was nothing before me and there's gonna be nothing after me like in my mind as I get older it does that doesn't even matter because I know what it feels like to feel good
00:42:55
Speaker
And I know what it feels like to feel like fucking shit. Yeah. And why gamble on misery when you can put all of your cards or your money or whatever your the pot. Yeah. Yeah. On on my on on the on what feels good and how limited that is for myself, for other people. And I don't know. It's my.
00:43:17
Speaker
But something for me, I'm kind of think I got to write a book of God is compassion. Like, you know, yeah, compassion is its own kind of religion if you truly buy into it and get away from those. Like I said, when you're like a young angsty person and you're just like, fuck everybody. And I don't care. I'm miserable. So I don't care if you're fucking miserable or you're if I'm malleable and intentionally make you miserable. And you're like, if you actually release that and get away from it,
00:43:45
Speaker
and really buy in on compassion as a genuine thing. It's almost like I feel like it has become my religion. Why something? Because compassion exists and it's a good fucking thing and it makes you a better person and it helps you grow and it makes other people feel good in this fucking weird
00:44:10
Speaker
No, I think these philosophical questions in the weird world, like, I mean, some of us are sensitive to the changes in the world. Look, there's structures in society for me. I'm out here in Oregon, USA. There's structures in society that are like around forever. And we talk about those maybe in the political realm of things that existed.
00:44:29
Speaker
But I can say for myself how the world feels right now, it doesn't even fucking resemble a few years ago. For me, whether it's me, how I've grown as an artist, or what's happened out there in the world, or the politics, it just doesn't even feel the same for me. For me, so I can recognize
00:44:48
Speaker
you know, I can recognize the change in that. And I think the something rather than nothing question is, it's so fun because you know, there's, there's a high risk. And I actually even say I even pose it, I pose it in a way that most others like who are philosophers would like is the how is there something rather than nothing. So there's like this whole type of thing of like, it's a massively profound,
00:45:16
Speaker
question and philosophers for me the punk aspect of me from philosophers is like philosophers are annoying you know and poets can be annoying too like in a good way like you could feel wonderful with the poem or wonderful great philosophy here but
00:45:36
Speaker
We're irritants. We're, uh, why, why, why? And I asked that question too. It's like, why is there something rather than nothing? I don't feel any closer. I'm five years in brother. I don't feel any closer on that. And I'm fine. I'm fine with that. I mean, maybe the question has been deconstructed, uh, uh, in my head, but I think, um, I think in thinking about that creatively within the show that.
00:46:04
Speaker
It opens up an expanse where all is permitted or all conversations are permitted. And, um, I love that space and I've crafted it out for myself, right? Not sponsored by anybody. So I think in, you know, for you in writing and for what we do creatively, uh, when you know, you're breathing some air and you're walking around and you're like, ain't nobody breathing down my neck in the thing that I'm doing right here.
00:46:33
Speaker
I'm like, yeah, uh, that's the space I want compared to other spots where, um, maybe serving at somebody's behest fully or half believing, uh, what you're doing. Uh, TJ McGowan everyday bite, tell, tell, um, the listeners and, and, and don't spare details, uh, where to find your stuff, where, where you show up live and books and writing, uh, all that stuff. Sure. Um,
00:47:02
Speaker
Most socials the everyday bite or you can search TJ McGowan I Yeah, I have I do a sad project if you're into more like the poetry music called subtle bodies and you can find us on pretty much all your streaming services or
00:47:18
Speaker
Very close to having our first feature-length album out. Awesome. Awesome. Last year, my debut novel came out with 2i Publishing. That's called Timeless Gardens and Other Beautiful Miseries. If you like a story about a guy stuck within a timeless void that he has to feed other people's misery in order for him to survive, that's up your alley. I do. Other than that, there's a companion book I'm writing with that publisher, hopefully later this year.
00:47:45
Speaker
And then, yeah, if you're into like my poetry, harder to find my spoken word online, but it does exist in some spaces. But I have a full length book that's kind of old right now called We Are Not One Thing. And then I have the chat book that was mentioned, God is a Woman. And then, yeah, sometimes I drop some things on Instagram here and there to stay in touch with my poetic side.
00:48:09
Speaker
Yeah, that's pretty much. That's me in a nutshell. I dig it. And listeners for TJ and I got on as talking about a trip I made to New York City, but also into the Bronx around New Year's with something rather than nothing alum, Buell Thomas, philosopher.
00:48:30
Speaker
and musician himself. And so little did I know is maybe I could even thrown I got a good arm. Maybe I could have thrown a rock and hit TJ's window around that time. But
00:48:42
Speaker
It's good to bend over that way, have this conversation. I really appreciate it because this stuff's exciting to me. Words, ideas, music, it's important to you. We spend our time towards things.
00:49:02
Speaker
you know, that are important. And I think one of the exciting parts of the conversation is, is, you know, the space we move into, and music and enjoying it. And quite honestly, when it comes to the philosopher to the poet, just, you know, this is this is this is who I am like, you know, you need me, right? Like y'all need me and I need you like in a sense of like,
00:49:28
Speaker
Right. The question, what is art? It's like underneath it is why do you do anything that you do, dear artist? Right. Like you don't have to have a great answer for that. But at the end of the day, when you're screaming at your acrylic paint and, you know, not that I when you punch through when you get really frustrated, I'm not a well-behaved painter. I'm much better in other areas. But, you know, when when when you when you feel those type of things that you find the spot
00:49:57
Speaker
To create so I'd like to say TJ has been happy to create With you here on the show and everybody Check out the everyday bite The energies of sound And music from TJ and thanks for coming on the show brother Thanks for
Conclusion and Listener Engagement
00:50:16
Speaker
having me. It was a pleasure. I really I really love this competition Awesome. Thanks, man
00:51:33
Speaker
of fuel gesture
00:51:34
Speaker
The fear of unknown possibility Can't be another, but we gotta
00:52:26
Speaker
Mark a territory for the heart, for the love, for the mistakes, like leaves they crash into the skin.
00:55:27
Speaker
I am kept away within myself, retreating into scars. You see me in the weight of my tells and want every single detail. You come to me in the shroud of my insecure indulgence and hold my head from the flames.
00:55:58
Speaker
I want to speak of you in the way thunder speaks of light. I pulled the sound from my throat and hold it between the rain, hoping you'll steal the words from my tongue and make them yours.
00:56:17
Speaker
Give them home in the beautiful violence of how your power touches down along the earth of my soul. We hold every sacred collapse at the edge of our lips to dissolve in the furnace.
00:56:38
Speaker
of our hearts. The lingering pain of former lives is nothing more than the echo of ghosts that can no longer kill us. The world is quiet even when it's not because your existence keeps me in the comfort of what we've stitched together from the tattered fabrics of being alive.
00:57:07
Speaker
I lie awake and watch the shadows climb down the walls and find you tucked away from it all. In a place where home is the gentle rise and fall of your chest. Our skin, as quiet as the night outside my door, we are touching and not touching. Bound and free.
00:57:38
Speaker
pure balance in these aging bodies our breath wanders in the darkness like dancing winds in the farthest corners of the universe souls whispers free from the limits of flesh and bone they warm the room and carry me off to where dreams swim between what is and isn't
00:58:09
Speaker
You were there too. Your laughter rippling the air like a skipped rock. And I think to myself, if this is heaven, I'm finally a believer. If this is karma, I guess I was good in another life.
00:58:32
Speaker
And when I die in this one, bury me inside the soft hum of corners grown from the ordinary hours of our love.
01:00:31
Speaker
This is something rather than nothing.
01:00:55
Speaker
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01:01:22
Speaker
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