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Defend a Book #2: Lovelight Farms Series by B.K. Borison | S2Ep15
361 Plays2 years ago
Court is back in session as the Lovelight Farms series by B.K. Borison takes the stand. Major spoilers for all three books in the series (Lovelight Farms, In the Weeds, and Mixed Signals).
This week Brandi and Kayla (the defense) talk about why Lovelight Farms is a series they always recommend to people, while Kendra (the prosecution) lays out all the reasons why the series wasn't for her.
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Follow Kendra @Kendra.Readz
Follow Kayla @Kaylas.Bookshelf
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Overview
00:00:06
Speaker
Hey guys! Hey! Welcome to Bring Your Own, a catch-all bookish most of the time podcast. I'm Brandi. I'm Kendra. I'm Kayla. And today we are doing round two of
00:00:21
Speaker
defend a book. In this case, books, plural. And we'll talk a little bit more about that in a few minutes. Caitlin and I are shitting our pants. But before we do that, what are you guys reading? What are you guys drinking?
Current Reads and Beverage Talk
00:00:35
Speaker
So I just started a new audio book today. It's been on my radar for a bit.
00:00:42
Speaker
But I don't know, I just hadn't jumped into it. I had it on hold for Libby for a while and it finally came through. It's called The Rachel Incident by Carolyn O'Donohue. Our friend, Bernie, who's at A Paperback Life, really liked this one. It's a litfic book, guys. It's not a romance book. I think there's romance in it, but it is a litfic book. Whoa, crazy. But it's basically about two best friends being very, very messy.
00:01:06
Speaker
Which, you know, I love a good messy book, a book about people being messy and like having, this is gonna sound crazy, I was just gonna say, and people having affairs, but when I hate the cheating trope. But anyway, no, I do, okay, this isn't a romance book, so it's whatever. Anyway, moving on, and I'm also physically gonna start tonight, I think I'm gonna start tonight, what the river knows.
00:01:30
Speaker
by Isabelle Ibanez. I don't, I apologize if I'm butchering her name, but it's a YA fantasy book with like some Egyptian influences and stuff. So I'm really excited for that one. Nice. Thank you. Cool. Oh, and I'm drinking a Dr. Pepper Zero and more. What? Twins. Oh, really?
00:01:54
Speaker
Yeah, well, it's not a zero. I like the full fat in my Dr. Peppers, but I am drinking a
Audiobook Experiences and 'The Hunger Games' Revisit
00:02:00
Speaker
Dr. Pepper.
00:02:02
Speaker
Love. Yeah, a little ASMR for you guys. So I just finished the audiobook for Sammy Espinosa's last review, like a few days ago. And Kendra and Kayla have both talked about that one before on the podcast. It was just really well done. I especially think like the last 30% of that book was just so good. Highly recommend and the audio was really good. So I finished that one recently. I think I'm going to start The Great Undoing as a reread on audio.
00:02:27
Speaker
Next, like I just miss them so much. And especially after recording our Magnolia Parks episode, like I was editing it and I just, I just miss them so much. So I'm either going to do that or start you again by Kate Goldbeck, which I know both of you guys have read and Kayla especially loved. Like for sure, my next two, yeah, okay. I know you both loved them, but like for sure my next two audio reads are you again and the great I'm doing. I just had to figure out which order.
00:02:53
Speaker
Okay, I was gonna say you got to do both so yeah, yeah, I'll do both I would do you again first and then do great undoing Cuz that way if there's a chance that you don't like you again, which I don't think that will happen You have something to look forward to
00:03:08
Speaker
Okay, I was gonna I was gonna see I would I was gonna say the opposite only because I feel like you'll be sad after the great I'm doing this open you again might make you just like not listen but 20% of that book. Yeah, close it after yeah after you reach like 90 just stop it.
00:03:24
Speaker
Yeah, but I'm physically reading. I'm rereading the Hunger Games series because Kendra and I went and saw a ballad of songbirds and snakes last weekend. And I just like fell deep back into my Hunger Games phase. We did a childhood phase episode in season one and I like gushed about my childhood phase, which was the Hunger Games and like rereading like you guys, they stand up. Like I understand why these were such a phenomenon and like why I was so obsessed
00:03:51
Speaker
they're so good. So I'm in the middle of Mockingjay right now.
Listener Shoutout and More Audiobook Plans
00:03:54
Speaker
And then after that, I think I'm going to read caution to the wind, which as of this recording date comes out tomorrow, which is the most recent book, finally, in the fallen men's series after like literally 18 months of radio silence from Miss Gianna. So and
00:04:10
Speaker
Kendra sorry before you go. I just want to give a quick shout out like a while ago. I was when we were doing what we're reading what we're drinking. I was talking about this beer that my boyfriend is especially obsessed with but like I also love too. It's like my favorite beer.
00:04:25
Speaker
And it's called Oberon. It's from this brewery in Michigan where he grew up called Bell's. And it just so happens that one of our listeners, Alison, works at Bell's just so coincidentally. And she reached out and she's like, I'd love to send your boyfriend a little package, a care package. And I just got it today and it was so fucking sweet of her. And it was so cute. There was a beer pint in there and some shirts and
00:04:48
Speaker
a bunch of bell stuff, which we get homesick due and I both being from the Midwest. So it was just like so sweet. And I just want to say thank you to Allison. It was so nice. Thanks, Allison. I also really like beer. Kendra's a beer girlie now. I am currently drinking a Michelob Ultra. I was just about to say, is anybody listening to work for Michelob Ultra? When I was at Kayla's house a few weeks, like in late October,
00:05:19
Speaker
She had me try some of Jared's like, what was it? Port wine? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because we we had just got back from Portugal. So we had Port wine. And if that's where it is not for me.
00:05:33
Speaker
she thought for me either like she's like here try something and she's gonna like give me like something like no i didn't oh my god you gave me a whole big ass glass no i didn't thanks queen and then he drank the rest of it this is not good it's not it's not for everybody it's thick it's very high in alcohol volume but anyway jared loves it layers it i am drinking a mikilov ultra and i'm
00:05:56
Speaker
currently reading or I'm listening to The Wake Up Call by Beth O'Leary on audio and I think I'm gonna start Forget Me Not by Julie Soto. I already know the ending of that book because Brandy and Kayla know to tell me that, like they just knew to tell me.
Introduction to 'Defend a Series' and 'Love Light Farm' Discussion
00:06:16
Speaker
I'm still gonna read it and I think because I know
00:06:20
Speaker
yeah i think it'll go yeah so um but if i didn't know i'd be sure yeah because i i read it as an arc and when that happened i was like but i was i didn't know obviously and so i was just like distraught yeah pretty distraught this one's like especially egregious too because just like the nature of what happened yeah yeah
00:06:42
Speaker
yeah so for those of you who have not read it so sorry that we're being kind of vague about what what happens and then if I tell people they'll be like come on but I'm like no like just get it you don't know it's it's a very specific personal thing that I have yeah I think everyone should have
00:07:00
Speaker
I think honestly, it docks you a star if it happens in your book. Well, that's not true because I have given books high ratings when that has happened, but it shouldn't be allowed. Anyways, yeah, I'm really excited for
00:07:17
Speaker
today's episode because like Brandy said, we're doing defend a book. Technically this is like different a series because I just had that's crazy. Um, I don't know the word to say I just had the pleasure, maybe interesting of reading the love light farm series, all three books that are currently out, uh, by BK Morrison. And I have been told for over a year, maybe almost two years now to start this series. And I finally, finally read it. Um,
00:07:46
Speaker
spoiler alert yeah you know it just it wasn't for me it wasn't my fave
00:07:52
Speaker
And we're gonna, and I'm gonna say why. And Brandy and Kayla, who love the series. I wouldn't, is this one of y'all's favorite series? I wouldn't say like favorite, but I never hesitate to recommend the series to people. Okay. Interesting. Um, so you know what's crazy is Kendra did this challenge at the beginning of the year, where she's like in an effort to be a better friend. I'm like reading books that my friends recommend to me and
00:08:16
Speaker
At the beginning of the year, I had just read McSignals when she started this challenge. So I was like, my book for you that I want you to finish my day in 2023 is McSignals. And thank fuck that mid-year I read something that I was obsessed with and changed my book because I would have been devastated if my like one book for this friend's challenge would have been one that she didn't like.
00:08:38
Speaker
Okay, so let's first talk about when we each read the series. So I first read Love White Farms and In the Weeds late last year, I think it was like close to the holiday season when I read those books. And then mixed signals was the second book of the year that I read this year. So I read it at the very beginning. And then brainy similar situation, right?
Series Setting and Character Introduction
00:09:02
Speaker
Like you read it like almost like you read it like in January mixed signals, at least anyway.
00:09:05
Speaker
Yeah, so I like went out of order because I got an audio arc in the weeds. So I read that one way back last summer, like summer of 2022. And I the narrators for that book are just not great. So I liked it. I still really enjoyed it. But I wasn't like itching to jump into the other two right after. So I read that one took a very long break.
00:09:29
Speaker
then read Love Light in December of last year and then mixed signals in January of this year. So really close to when you read those two. I listened to Love Light on audio and I actually didn't mind the narrator. She wasn't like my favorite, but she wasn't that bad to me. And then I either read or listened to In the Weeds. I could totally look it up right now, but I'm not going to. And then mixed signals, that narrator is particularly egregious to me. And so I had to read that when I switched.
00:09:58
Speaker
Um, but anyway, that's when I read all of them. Yeah. And I, I read the whole series in the past, um, like three weeks. I started like mid November. It took me like almost, I would say like five days to get through every, like five days each for each book. I would say maybe give or take a little longer. And I did all of them physically, which
00:10:20
Speaker
I didn't want to do the audios because you guys said that the narrators weren't that good. In hindsight, I almost wish I read it on my Kindle just because I think I would have gotten through it faster. But I was on this physical reading kick because I'd like, yeah. And to give people context, I read this series in November, mid-November, beginning of November, nothing but bangers for me. I'm going to tell you guys, I read Butcher and Blackbird.
00:10:48
Speaker
the Davenport's Love Theoretically and Check and Mate. Those are like my favorites from the month and I read those all prior to starting Love Life Farms. So I was like on this high and then came Love Life Farms.
Critiques of 'Love Light Farm' Series
00:11:03
Speaker
Whoa, whoa. Well, technically there was a book before Love Life Farms that I also didn't really enjoy that much.
00:11:10
Speaker
I just went in with like high expectations for Love Light Farms and maybe that's my fault, but everyone that I know personally like really loves the series and like spoke highly of it and like was always recommending it to me. When I got there, I was like, oh, okay. Okay, let's continue. So as stated, we have several books on the stand, Love Light Farms in the weeds and mixed signals. So Court is now in session.
00:11:38
Speaker
Okay, before we get into the crimes that this series is being accused of, Brandy, do you want to just kind of tee up the series for us? Yeah, in the past, our last defendant book, we just like straight up read the description on the back of the book. But since we're doing three of them, I'll just give like a quick little overview of the series as a whole.
00:11:56
Speaker
So each of these books takes place on Love Light Farms, which is located in a very small town. It's a Christmas tree farm. Initially, it is just a Christmas tree farm. Recently bought by Stella, who's our main character in the first book, and she is trying to turn it around, make it like this place of dreams that she always hoped it could be. And yeah, so that's like the first book and there's some fake dating in the first book.
00:12:22
Speaker
And then the next book takes place in the spring. So each of these takes place in a different season. So love lights during winter around Christmas time. In the weeds takes place during the spring when after they improve the farm, they start doing a lot more there. They're planting flowers and vegetables and pumpkins and all this stuff. So that one follows Beckett. He's like the head farmer at
00:12:44
Speaker
love light. So he handles all like taking care of all of the planting that happens there. Uh, and then his romance is like, what, Kendra, what do you call it? Like first chance round two or something like that. It's like, it's one night stand.
00:13:00
Speaker
One night stand forced proximity. They don't really have a strong plot. Okay. Anyways, she's an influencer in that one. And then the third one takes place during the summer, which is about Lila and Caleb. She owns a bakery on Love Light Farms, and she is a professional baker. That's like her whole job. And then Caleb is a Spanish teacher at this point in the story.
00:13:24
Speaker
So each of these follows people who work on Mobile Light Farms. The next upcoming book is about Stella's half-brother, Charlie, who I'm so excited for that book. He's like down really bad for a tattoo artist in town. I'm just so pumped.
00:13:40
Speaker
Well, that book is taking forever to come out, though. Oh, my God. Anyway, it'll likely. I know by the time it comes out, it'll be almost like two years. I think it will be two years since mixed signals was released. Right. I don't know. Something like that. Yeah. So it's very small town vibes. Lots of small town antics. And Kendra will say no plot. So then just we already know, I guess one thing. But then, Kendra, as the prosecution, what is the series being accused of?
00:14:09
Speaker
I haven't heard these, so I'm scared. I am accusing the Love Light Farm series of four things. The first, of course, being not enough plot, just aesthetic and vibes, flat characters, repetitive, throwed out conflicts, and too much telling and not enough showing.
00:14:26
Speaker
as a whole, the series, which is not for me. I tried, you know? But because of the reasons that
Debates on Plot and Character Expectations
00:14:31
Speaker
I just listed, I did not connect or feel moved by the stories or characters in the same way that my fellow co-hosts did, so.
00:14:41
Speaker
Okay. I feel like I want to also say, Kayla, did you rate any of these five stars? No. Me either. I did not. Kendra, what did you rate them? I rate it every single book 3.75. Looking back, I would definitely knock Love Light down to like a three, give in the weeds and mix, give in the weeds. Like it's odd because like I think in the weeds and mixed signals both have their faults that are very similar, but they both do different things that I liked. So I would leave them both still at like a 3.75.
00:15:12
Speaker
Maybe knock it down. It's like a 3.5. Like the more I sit and think about it. Damn. I gave mix signals like 4.75. Like I love that book. I gave. OK, so let's get back to your face. Oh, my God. Looking back at my story graph, I rated Love Light 4 in the weeds 4.25 and mix signals four and a half. So they improved upon each
00:15:42
Speaker
book for me. For me, I gave love light and in the weeds for and then make signals 4.75. I think she definitely improved on certain things. By the time you get to make signals, you know, I think mixed signals definitely like I say the series as a whole really has no plot. I think mixed signals can challenge that a little bit. But it's still not like
00:16:08
Speaker
that great of a like it's not that developed of a plot. So I have a question for you. I just I just want to know. And I need you to look really deep down into yourself for this. Okay. So because since January, Brady especially has been telling you to read again, she chose mixed signals specifically. But as a whole, we wanted you to read the love light series.
00:16:31
Speaker
And ever since you were like, just like throughout the year when you're like, I don't know what to read. I don't know what to read. We were like, oh, love light. And you're like, no. Like you immediately shut it down all the time. Always. You were like, never like I struggle to say open to the idea because you were always just consistently shutting it down immediately. Do you think that you went into reading this with just like, I don't want to read this like
00:16:58
Speaker
I'm going to read it though anyway. That wasn't it, honestly. Looking back, Lana Del Rey, she's like, I think my brain was trying to tell me I wasn't probably going to enjoy this. And honestly, I remember that I actually started Love Light last year. I was visiting my family for the holidays and we were at a football game.
00:17:18
Speaker
and i was kind of drunk and i started it on kindle and then i was like i don't i can't read because i was drunk so they can't read that right now so technically i started it in december but i only i never got past like the first chapter i didn't remember anything but okay but absolutely i was so like i did want to be like i don't know just something was always just like don't do it like right now because like yeah like literally everyone
00:17:39
Speaker
that I am close to wanted me to read this series. Like Kimmy gifted me the original indie version of Love, Life, Arms like two years ago and I still didn't read it then. I was like, okay, like I always wanted to, but I just something was like, no. I've like, we all have those books really like, and sometimes you read them eventually and you're like, holy shit, I should have read this earlier. And then in this case, I was like, oh. I guess let's start with your first point. No plot. I'll let you go first. Yeah.
00:18:09
Speaker
let's let's start i think the one that definitely does not have a plot whatsoever is in the weeds i think that's like the worst offense of that one it's literally just like what they're living on this farm because she wants a break from her social life or like from her social media so she's just like living at his house
00:18:28
Speaker
but we don't really know what they're working towards. So I was like, what is the plot here besides them as a couple growing closer, which is fine, but I still need a plot.
Character Arcs and Narrative Style
00:18:37
Speaker
So let's take it back though to Lovelight. The plot of that is like this girl named Stella, who in the opening chapter, we've like opening two or three chapters, we find out that like she owns this Christmas tree farm and she like,
00:18:52
Speaker
wrote an influencer who later turns out to be Evie that like she could she wrote her to come to the farm, but she lied and said that she opened the farm with her boyfriend. And so now she needs to like find a boyfriend to fake date and then it eventually turns out she ends up linking up with her best friend of 10 years. Why I just don't get why you would introduce that concept of them having to fake date
00:19:16
Speaker
to impress one specific person, and that person does not even show up until like 60% of the book, like the whole book, you're sitting there waiting. I'm just like, okay, like when are things gonna get poppin'? Because nothing, I feel like nothing really changed for Luca. Like, I wish that it was just a bigger thing. I feel like we spent more time. It was telling me like, we're best friends, I like him. Oh, now we're holding hands, that's cool. But it didn't feel like that, I love fake dating. It didn't feel like that big, great fake dating was like,
00:19:43
Speaker
all the antics of them like really trying to like impress people and like lie and then by the time it happened it's like it was over and then like there was really nothing big around it and then it mixed signals I will say that one has more of a plot because it's like what they're they want to date each other to get better even though yeah I feel like I wish it was more equally split I feel like it's service that book service Layla way more than that service Kayla
00:20:12
Speaker
I think Caleb in that book had no growth, no plot whatsoever. He starts the book, he likes Layla, he ends the book, he gets Layla. We really didn't explore him doing anything, even like she starts the series with Caleb being a cop and then like
00:20:29
Speaker
I mean, I'm assuming she just didn't want to write a cop romance. So then she turns him into a Spanish teacher, but I was still expecting some bigger conversation around like his life as a teacher. And like, I feel like so much of that book was just, I think this is my problem with all the books. They're on that damn farm too much. Like get off that fucking farm and get into town. And especially with, well, it should be called, like, nevermind.
00:20:57
Speaker
especially mixed signals like so much of them which is in the bake house talking like 60% of the book is just I'm talking about fucking baking and baked goods and it's like okay like that's Layla's thing but why give me why give me two points of views why give me two points of views if Caleb is not gonna have his own story in that book to me personally like
00:21:17
Speaker
he got no growth anything so when i but again i said no plot more vibes and aesthetics so if you're a vibes and aesthetics girly oh my god yeah that book feels like christmas but also like i can go outside to feel christmas like i want it a plot
00:21:31
Speaker
And I can keep going, but I will let you guys weigh. Also, I do want to say, I can go in a lot. And so I'm sorry if I go too far. You can tell me that. No, that's the point of this. No, I think when Kayla and I were texting about this, we both agreed with you that this book is way more vibes-heavy than plot-heavy. And I think that's one of the best things about it. I think it's extremely low stakes. And I think based off of what you read on the back of the book,
00:22:01
Speaker
If you read the first book, I think you should expect that with the other two. And I'm not necessarily saying that's good, but I think like I knew what I was getting myself into when I was reading those. And maybe you didn't because we were pushing it so much and it hyped it so much. When I first read Love Light, because I read it near close to the holiday season, I was like fully, I just was reading it because I was like, oh my God, I want a cute little holiday romance. And that's what I got. And that's why I liked it.
00:22:25
Speaker
I don't mind low stakes. I think you can do low stakes well. I think where the low stakes and this kind of backfire is in, I mentioned one of the other crimes is like the third act conflicts. I said they were repetitive, but the third act conflicts, I don't think they need a conflict then. I would have liked this more if she went the route of out on a limb where it was like them
00:22:49
Speaker
just trying to figure life out and then they figure it out and then they go one especially because it is so vibes heavy so then it's like if you're not doing anything super plot heavy by the time i get to these like third act breakups i'm like nothing fucking happened for it to just to me to justify like why you guys are actually didn't make signals for me i was like that well
00:23:09
Speaker
Silly and make signals I feel like Layla like I get it but again We didn't spend enough time with I think really deep diving into why she felt that way like we knew she had bad luck and love But I'm like she keeps going after love so like why like a man's telling you he wants to be with you This is what you want it like why aren't you accepting it? But it's in in the weeds where that conflict I was just like this is so fucking stupid like and especially because I've got no plot so I'm like Where's this like I just wish that there was a better build-up to justify it because again books can do vibes very very well I just feel like
00:23:39
Speaker
That didn't happen. I want to push back on the no plot in each of these. And I can go book by book. So like, Love Light.
00:23:48
Speaker
I don't think that, I think it's a disservice when people are marketing that as a fake dating book because I don't think that book was written for
Internal Monologues and Character Dynamics
00:23:57
Speaker
the trope. I think that trope is in that book, if that makes sense. And she's marketing it that way. So it's not at nobody's fault. Yeah.
00:24:09
Speaker
that trope just exists in that book, in a friends to lovers book. And I think that I agree with you, like if it's going to be a fake dating book, then they need to be fake dating. And I, I, I, looking back, would classify that book as a friends to lovers that has a splash of fake dating in it. Kayla, do you want to say anything about Lovelight? Truthfully about Lovelight.
00:24:38
Speaker
I do think like Stella's healing journey through that was like the grieving her mother and like Luca's mom and like the role that she plays in Stella's life and the role that Luca plays in her life and like being like so terrified of that changing and like
00:24:52
Speaker
Losing this person that she's closest to now that she feels so alone I will argue that that is like a plot point to me and character growth which I know you're gonna talk about flat characters in a little bit But I consider that a big plot point of the book is like she's trying to heal While trying to keep this business afloat because she like links her mom to her success in this business so much. I
00:25:11
Speaker
Yeah, I just wish it had like maybe a better connection to like the external plot because that to me is like an internal conflict for her, right? And like best books always have both or sometimes multiple. Can you actually do In the Weeds next to talk about or? Yeah, so I okay, in In the Weeds, like you said, like they're just both existing on this farm. Like I think that and maybe you'll argue the same thing that there should be more external plot versus internal.
00:25:36
Speaker
But Evie's having this midlife crisis about her career. She's feeling like everything that she worked towards is nothing like what she thought it was going to be. She's reaping all these benefits from her job as an influencer, but none of the joy that she initially felt when she had a really small following and was doing this.
00:25:52
Speaker
and feeling happy. Right. Like the whole tagline of that book is like, find you're happy. Right. So I think she's just like, yeah, that was cute. Yeah. And like, I think the career burnout is the biggest one. And like you making that comment about love light about that being an internal conflict versus external. Like I think I would agree with you there. Yeah. Well, like, well, with Beckett, it's like, well, it was more like Caleb. I was at Caleb. Like I have no clue what that man's conflict was with Beckett. It's like, I guess, I guess I just like have a soft spot for like,
00:26:19
Speaker
people with anxiety and also with that part, I was like, that was my anxiety. I forgot about that part. That part was last week's score. Oh, they got that bar scene where he went to the back and she followed him. Aww. He has to wear earplugs. Yeah, that's actually my favorite moment from the entire series is when she's in his truck and she puts the earplugs in. I thought that was really sweet. I forgot about that. Yeah, but outside of that, they don't have... Well, it's his internal conflict, I guess you should say.
00:26:45
Speaker
they don't really have something that's like driving, I don't know, like driving them throughout the book. Like we just know that they had this one night stand and she left and you don't even find out like why she left until like much later in the book, but it was like the most simplest thing. Like she just had an early flight in the morning, but like the way it was kind of like talked about, I thought it was going to be like, Oh, like she left cause she was like really scared or like, I mean that kind of was it, but I'm just like, huh? So yeah, I just feel like,
00:27:09
Speaker
with his it was especially vibes in that one because it's like oh we just really got to like know his family dynamic and like yeah that was it one thing that i won't push back on you on is because i actually when i first read this series when i was reading mixed signals i remember i posted an instagram story about how annoyed i was at bk boris and her third act breakups despite me really liking the books because i do like these books within the weeds this maybe this sounds crazy but i
00:27:39
Speaker
I don't know, I'm hesitant to say this because I'm not actually 100% positive. But even without Beckett's or Beckett and Evie's external plot, in that book, I think that Beckett is
00:27:53
Speaker
to hide for my favorite guy of the series because like Kenner like you said like the soft spot for kids with anxiety and I do yeah like you said like the the whole like earmuffs thing and or the headphones thing I just think is really sweet and I do love his like family too like seeing his family and the setup that it gave for
00:28:11
Speaker
Nova as well and just his relationship with them I thought was so sweet so I I think that personally for me that was my favorite piece of the whole book was Beckett and Beckett's family and yeah it is very vibes until he like just acted so like that conflict is one that pisses me off the most because it was like she leaves to go do a job interview but we don't know that and then she wrote him a note but it's in his point of view he can't he doesn't know there's a note he doesn't see one and then he
00:28:41
Speaker
Purposely says I'm not even gonna go check her room Yeah, go check that fucking room like oh like are you stupid like he just jumped to so many conclusions so Like this is so and like of course like he doesn't have his phone like it just felt very like convenient and
00:29:03
Speaker
yeah like it just didn't feel like natural to like what they were like i feel like they could have i feel like their plot could have been like her getting that job and being like okay i gotta go away for a little bit and then he's like okay and then wondering if she's ever gonna come back like if that was just a conversation i had they had i was like oh cool but him like jumping to conclusions i was like this is so stupid okay i don't necessarily disagree with you on that one because that yeah that
00:29:26
Speaker
Like I said, the third act breakups in these books are my least favorite thing and I'm hoping it's not this way in the fourth book. Because I am genuinely very excited for that book. Yeah, me too. Oh my god. The fact that she already said that his nickname for her is Nova Girl. I was like, oh my god. Okay, so mixed signals. I will, you've said a couple times you don't think that that book really served Caleb. I will say that felt way more like Lila's book than Lila and Caleb's book, but
00:29:57
Speaker
Is it Layla? I will agree with you that it felt way more like Layla's book than Caleb's book. But I will say that like I think Caleb's conflict is that he like never felt good at anything. He just like lacked confidence in like all areas of his life.
Character Backstory and Reader Connection
00:30:11
Speaker
And I do think that ties into his career change.
00:30:13
Speaker
because it's the first one to admit that he was never a good cop and he was bad at it and he was bad at that and he feels like he's bad at dating, he feels like he's bad at connecting with people. And I think that's where his growth comes from is because being with
00:30:31
Speaker
being with Leila made him feel, being with Leila made him feel more confident in himself, like in his abilities to like be a good partner and stuff. I'd say the only area of his life where it felt like he was confident was as like a son to me and brother. Yeah, I just wish that we were more show like, and that's one of my thoughts, I wish that we were like shown those things rather than told, because we were told he wasn't like,
00:30:58
Speaker
good like he was fired for being too nice we never really like we kind of saw it in the other books but again like since this is an interconnected standalone series like i feel like his setup in this should have just been more aware and that's another thing like in the other two books i was really excited to get to make signals because like it was made obvious that like caleb had a crush on leila and that she was just kind of like oblivious to it so i thought jumping in that like getting his
00:31:21
Speaker
monologue that we were going to know like I just was expecting him to be like a little more boy obsessed with her like it's there but he doesn't even like we never really have like a conversation with just like his internal monologue of him being like I've liked this girl for so long it's more like yeah but she's been around like it wasn't that clear until later on that's just that's just me I feel like it was evident in his actions though he was always in that big shop every day
00:31:44
Speaker
Yeah. Like buying stuff that he didn't need. Yeah. And he there's this quote. I want it up to 11 in his monologue to be like, you know, like when you get a boy obsessed monologue, he's like, oh, yeah, she's this, she's that. We didn't really get that. That's what I just was expecting it. Randy, what's the quote?
00:31:59
Speaker
There's a couple. In chapter seven, he says Layla, and I mean, this isn't her POV, so that doesn't really argue with what Kendra said she wanted in his monologue. But there's this part that says, Layla, I've never heard anyone say my name like that. They don't want to say anything else ever again, which is my favorite quote from the whole book. And then in chapter 11, he said, I see you, Layla Dupree. He says it so firmly, so resolute that I can't help but believe him clear as day. I always have. That, to me, feels like confirmation.
00:32:27
Speaker
Yeah, but again like I just wanted it like from I was excited to hear about like how he's always like I don't know and that's that's again me like That's on me like an assumption cuz like we saw him in the other books like harboring her crush for her So I just thought in his point of view he'd be like, yeah, I've always wanted her but it was more like yeah I'm bad it and that's nothing like he was like, I'm bad at dating and
00:32:48
Speaker
And I wish that and you know, he was like, I just gave too much in relationships. And that's nothing where I feel like we were just told so much that but in the like, I wish we could have seen maybe in like the end, I feel like also the series suffers from like a lack of planning. I wish in the other books, we got to see Layla like have these like have a bad boyfriend. I wish we got to see like maybe the town people talking about Oh, you see Caleb like went all out for a girl again, like,
00:33:11
Speaker
And then they just I had to like imagine like how far he would go because what he thought was too far for Layla like obviously she loved it. So I'm like, that's not going too far. You know, like I wanted to know why like see it more as you're talking about Caleb in his internal monologue. I'm going through some of my highlights because this is one of the since I read this one physically. It's the only one I actually have highlights for really there. This is only 27% into the book and she's like wearing this
00:33:39
Speaker
scarves.
Series Timeline and Storytelling Techniques
00:33:40
Speaker
She always wears scarves like in her hair and he says it's matching her apron bla bla bla. He says I want he's talking about the scarf I want to feel it slip through my fingers I want to twist it around and around my fist until I can tilt her head back and get him out to mine cute and then like later he's like talking about how he settles for having her in increments because that's all he can take at one time and he's like probably better for my sanity.
00:34:04
Speaker
And chapter four, page 36, he says, I'm convinced I'm picking the wrong type of person because the right type of person is about five foot three, has cropped brown hair and hazel eyes, a collection of ridiculous aprons and absolutely no clue about my crush. Cute. And then again, I wanted him to talk more about his crush and like how like I wish earlier he talked more about how it started and like, you know what I mean? Like I'm trying to think of a book where like that happens, but like he said eight pages later, I've seen her three days a week for the past five years and I don't think she's noticed me once.
00:34:33
Speaker
And that's another fucking thing with the plot. Like a few minutes ago, lack of planning. In Love Life Farms, we don't even know how long Stella has had the farm. I'm assuming it's been like a year at that point, because she only talks about the previous Christmas. So I'm like, okay, she's had the farm for a year, whatever. And then like, it's a few months later that Evie comes in the spring, right?
00:34:54
Speaker
to stay with Beckett. So I'm like, okay, it's only been a few months out. Luca and Stella have been dating. I get to fucking make signals. That's only supposed to be, I'm assuming mixed signals. There's a time jump that we're just never aware of because she's like, Oh yeah, Luca and Stella, they've been dating for like a year and a half. And then he's like, Oh yeah, I've been seeing her for the past five years. How's it been five years at that big house? If Stella's on the own, the farm for- What does the big house have to do with the farm? He said he's seen her for the past five years, right? The big house has the big house. The big house is just on the property. It's been open.
00:35:24
Speaker
No, they converted it. She didn't start it until Stella... Yes, she did not start that. Layla comes on because Stella recruits her. That's the whole thing. She recruits Beckett and Layla to come to the farm with her to start it. So Layla just wasn't working there. That's crazy.
00:35:47
Speaker
Also, first of all, Layla is not a professional. I guess she's a professional because she owns, but she never went to culinary school. She went to college, got a degree in mathematics, and then she just likes baking. She was working with that woman that she has those monthly meetings with who also owns a bakery in town, and that's who taught her how to bake. So again, timeline, I'm like, what's going on? Listen, it's been a long time.
00:36:08
Speaker
It's been a long time. So in my head, I'm just I don't remember when I'm reading a series about interconnected standalones. I just feel like this year's could have been a lot more planned out than like what I will argue with you there. I won't argue with you there because when you were talking about like, I wish you would have seen him have a crush on her in the last few books and blah, blah, blah. Like I agree with you. But I will say like one thing I do like. And this was pointed out to me by my friend Haley, our friend Haley, who just finished the first book.
00:36:34
Speaker
is that BK Boris doesn't rely on flashbacks to build relationship dynamics. And because I like the relationship dynamics, I like that. I think you might say, Kendra, that you wished there were more flashbacks, but I personally
00:36:49
Speaker
because I already liked the relationship dynamics that existed. I liked that we weren't getting flashbacks. Like their friendship, Luke and Stella's friendship already felt so strong to me when that book started. And Layla and Caleb's crossing paths, like it made sense to me. And like, I admittedly wasn't thinking about timelines. And when you do give the suggestion, like you wish you could have seen those things in the other books, like I'll agree with you there. Cause like the only flashback that really exists is Evie and Beckett's hookup.
00:37:16
Speaker
yeah and i just wish that i kind of hate that like every major relationship with probably the exception of charlie anova was already established like we knew the dynamic in book one like we never get to see like the start of something right like
00:37:31
Speaker
We walk into the book already knowing that Luca and Stella are best friends for 10 years.
Comparisons and Future Speculations
00:37:37
Speaker
But I mean, yeah, that's like what I would expect from a friend's celebrities book, but I wish that we would get like at least one meet cue in present day, like in the series, I think it would actually do like, like, I'll be him in it's like every book, like we get to see the day the characters meet and how their relationship progresses onward. I wish we could have even gotten that with like Beckett and Evie, like, imagine if Beckett didn't meet Evie and have the one night stand until she came to the farm.
00:37:58
Speaker
Because then it's like, okay, I get to see their relationship from the start. So I wish that I don't know, she just, she, I feel like BK Borson knows so much about the series. And I can tell that but not all of it makes it to the page. And I feel like some of it has to make it to the page sometimes you can't rely on just like assumptions. Yeah, when I regarding the flashbacks thing, I think I mean, I didn't necessarily want them or like I wasn't
00:38:23
Speaker
Missing them, you know, I didn't think about it when I was reading because yeah I personally I do agree that like I do think that the relationships were Specifically with Luca and Stella I think were were well established like I knew that they were best friends So it wasn't something that I necessarily missed or something that I would have hated having in the book either But yeah, that's just yeah, maybe I like I don't even need like a flashback it's more like especially like with Luca and Stella like I don't need that cuz like I know it's friends lovers like
00:38:48
Speaker
whatever like that can just be shown but I guess I just wish that like we got to see a lot of these really like I just wish there was more progression I don't know what the right I don't know if it's like world building or something else like I just wish that like like I read the Queen's Cove series I by Stephanie Archer and I think she does a really good job I mean that's not my favorite series whatsoever I think she does a really good job of like
00:39:08
Speaker
she knew what she wanted to happen in book four so she's gonna plant the seeds like really early but not in a way that's like overwhelming like i don't know i just wish i think it could have just been done better and again like i wish that we could have at least gotten one singular meet q and that not every relationship established in the beginning like i don't know
00:39:25
Speaker
I definitely agree with you about the backwards planning. I completely agree with you. I wish you would have had more sprinkles of that kind of stuff in the earlier books. I will say though, I think Layla and Caleb's real introduction is at that bar when she's on that horrible date, because that's when everything changes. So even though they've known each other in passing, and especially Caleb has had this crush, I do think that we see the start of their actual real
00:39:49
Speaker
Which I mean, that's that's me reaching when you for what you're asking for. I know. But like, I think that's like the closest like you're going to get to it in the series. And because like, yeah, it was like Charlie and Nova, like we know that he's obsessed with her and we don't know how they met. Like we just know that he's always in town and like he did a tattoo for me. Maybe that'll be it. But like, I wish even then we could have seen like them meeting, you know, like, yeah. And maybe we will. Maybe the prologue or something. Well, yeah, maybe we'll get the flashback of when she did
00:40:18
Speaker
tattoo for him. Yeah. We don't have to argue about the repetitive third acts because Kayla and I agree with you. Yeah. But let's talk about flat characters. Now we touched a little bit on those while we were talking about the plot because they're just so intertwined. And we already made some arguments for some internal conflict that I think adds to characters. But what else did you want to say about those?
00:40:36
Speaker
um i think the characters come across as flat because for books written in first person i feel like none of their povs provide you with the character's personality like i could take any paragraph from these four books and take out any of the names
00:40:54
Speaker
And I could be like, who said this? And you couldn't tell me who said it. I feel like you could, because so much of their inner, like some of their inner monologue is thinking yes and reflecting, but I feel like, wow, ways it is them telling you narrating action. There's not a balance. It's like, I got up. I went to the bake house. Caleb was at the bake house. Obviously I'm simplifying it. Like she's a much better writer than that. But like that is how, like,
00:41:21
Speaker
If I'm gonna read a book
Narrative Style and Reader Engagement
00:41:23
Speaker
in first person like I want to feel like I'm in their head that I'm like feeling these emotions with them so I guess that also ties into like telling it on look and not enough showing like It just I don't know I didn't I don't feel like any of their internal internal monologues were strong enough in that thought out and Like they just they lacked personality especially in in love light because we don't get Luca's point of view so Luca to me
00:41:49
Speaker
Lucas, I'm sorry, boring ass man. I can't tell you outside of his family. That's it. And that's a disservice. I guess the closest I would say, the character that had a really good personality without someone having to tell me what their personality was, was Beckett. Because we could see inside that he was struggling a lot with his anxiety and stuff. But he's always like, oh, Evie's a sunshine girl. Evie's a sunshine girl. I've read so many sunshine girl books.
00:42:17
Speaker
I read Evie's point of view. She, she just gives regular girl, like no sunshine. She's not super optimistic. She's his sunshine though. But like, I think Evie's inner monologue is very different than how Beckett perceives her because like she's a bright spot in Beckett's life. And I agree with you that I think Beckett's internal monologue is really strong, but I think Evie's is completely rooted in her burnout, like, and her like questioning, like where, oh my. So if I were to find out a paragraph and I won't tell you what book you could tell me who's speaking.
00:42:45
Speaker
And if I, I won't say any names. Yep. She's going to find the most basic paragraph. That's like, I brushed my teeth and I went to, she's going to find like the most, we all read books that were like, it's from first person. And like, we just had our Magnolia parks episode. We can spot out those characters, internal monologues from a mile away. Like, cause they're so distinctive and fit their personality so well. I guess I could give you Luca, but.
00:43:15
Speaker
I think it's crazy. Everybody else is crazy. I think that Layla and Caleb, something that I love, love, love, love, love about that book is that they are both sunshine people. They're both happy. They both want to make people around them happy. I personally loved that. And I do think that their personalities were distinct enough
00:43:32
Speaker
because I perceive Caleb as somebody who's insecure about his like where he feels like he's lacking and I see Layla as like a little bit more buzzy. I don't know what's the word I'm looking for. Yeah, I just I just don't think like I texted this to you guys. I think BK Boris should honestly try writing a book in third person. I think it would fit her like I think she would probably nail it a lot more.
00:43:55
Speaker
I don't necessarily hate that take. I think that's a fine take. But like, I think her side characters have more personality than her main characters. Because again, she spends so much time in this. It's true. She's been so much. I would not be surprised if she's like Gilmore Girls is my favorite show because like you read this series and you're like, this is like Stars Hollow and crack like this small town. And they have very distinct personalities. But again, like, yeah, I just don't think any of her main characters had like
00:44:25
Speaker
It was just like a straight line across the board with the exception, I would say, again, with it being Beckett. I hard disagree about Layla and Caleb. Like, hard disagree.
00:44:38
Speaker
That's crazy. That, that I think is your wildest take. That to me is the wildest take that you've said so far. I mean, I don't, I don't hear much defending there. Kayla and Layla are, but I think part of the reason that it works for them is like, you see some characters that are complete opposites of each other and that's why they're drawn to each other. But I think Layla and Caleb are both drawn to each other because of the things that they share in common. And I think those things are people pleasing. Layla is a perfectionist. Layla has like,
00:45:03
Speaker
high stress about her performance at her job. I think that she feels insecure about her failings in love and feels like maybe she isn't capable of being loved in the way that she always hoped that she would be.
Character Exploration and Satisfaction
00:45:18
Speaker
Yeah, we do discuss that.
00:45:19
Speaker
Yeah. And I think those things all lend to her personality and how she navigates, especially this like small town where the dating pool is so small and she feels like time is running out. Whereas Caleb, I mean, you'll, you argue that he's not boy obsessed, but I will say like, I think most of his personality is around like wanting to find
00:45:39
Speaker
somebody that he can like really really love because he has all this inside of him that he wants to share and like has so much love to give and obviously he was always hoping that it was going to be Layla but he just wants to be a lover boy. I just again like wish that we got to see like more because again I feel like that book and that their specific plot of like wanting to date
00:46:02
Speaker
service Layla way more than it serviced him because I wish if we would have just seen him on one date prior to her or get insight into one of his relationships prior to her, then
00:46:13
Speaker
I think it would have amplified a lot of what he is struggling with in that book. Yeah, I definitely think that could have served the book even more. I agree. But I think that he did gain stuff out of that. Besides just getting to date Layla, I think he gained confidence that he's not doing love wrong. He's not loving people wrong. He just needed to find a person who was going to love him and accept his love. And I think that was Layla because of, like I said, I think
00:46:37
Speaker
They share so much in common that like, that's why, you know how there, there are couples, I already kind of said this, but there are couples who are drawn to each other because they balance each other and there are couples who are drawn together because they are each other. They're so similar. Yeah. And I think that like Evie and Beckett are a great example of balance and Layla and Caleb are a great example of equals. Yeah.
00:46:57
Speaker
I just I just wish we got in more from Caleb and I wish we got more of Layla in Caleb's life rather than Caleb in Layla's life because then we got spent so much time exploring with him like every time Caleb is like with his family he's like by himself like I think it would have been so fun if Layla got to like meet his family because like they're so big and like so nosy and the fact that they didn't like meddle even more into that relationship I think it it just would have been better also with Layla's family like this kind of annoyed me because
00:47:26
Speaker
Again, when it comes to flat characters, she introduces the fact that a reason why Layla strives so much is because of her family. She comes from a military background. I'm like, oh, yes, let's start talking about military kids. I was kind of excited. I was like, oh, maybe we can get into that. And it's kind of only mentioned maybe once or twice in passing about how, yeah, everyone in her family is just military driven. But since she didn't go into the military, they kind of just
00:47:54
Speaker
cut her off. And like I just wish that that was explored more because I think it just the parallel between her having like not a big family or not a supportive family versus like Caleb's family who like love and adores him. I just think that could have made for like a very interesting
00:48:12
Speaker
a more interesting and then I feel like, you know, your family defines so much of like who you are, whether you like it or not. And so like, I think that just would have added more to her character to see more of that dynamic. So I think it just kind of did her a disservice and it kind of also with Evie, it's like,
00:48:27
Speaker
We get so much of Beckett's family and his relationships, but with Evie, we got none of her family. We only know she has a good relationship with them and they don't live in town and she loves them. And even with her and the townspeople, we're more so told that she's doing all these random jobs around the town.
Series Reflection and Future Anticipation
00:48:46
Speaker
get to like you know find herself but we never see her actually doing the job just always like oh yeah today I worked at the bookstore today I did this and I'm like I wanted to see her building those relationships and seeing like oh like influencer life isn't for me and like with Stella and Luca like I can't like she ain't got no family so and then well she has her dad but like
00:49:05
Speaker
I also thought that was going to play a bigger role because like she has that I think it's kind of a wasted scene looking back on it where it's like they're at dinner and like her dad is like super drunk and like his head lands in the mashed potatoes but like she never like talks about her dad or like sees him again which like she doesn't have to but like I don't know it was just I just felt like it was kind of also another thing these books are too short these books are too short barely hitting 300 pages
00:49:30
Speaker
Sorry. I learned them on Kindle. I don't even notice that kind of stuff. So. I think for me, like all the things you're saying, I'm not like I do think that they would have added to the book. But in my opinion, when I was reading, especially mixed signals, I will give you the other two for sure, especially. But like I didn't feel like it took away from the book away. Yeah. Yeah.
00:49:53
Speaker
maybe a little bit in the weeds. I would have liked more depth from Evie, but in mixed signals, it didn't feel like it was distracting for me, but your ideas are great. I think they would have added to the story, but for me, the story lacking them didn't make it a worse read for me. I think it's because every time I read a book, I have questions, right? And so I wait to see if those questions get answered. So when none of them get answered, I'm like, oh, fuck. Yeah.
00:50:21
Speaker
Kayla and anything else to say? Oh, me? Yeah. I mean, yeah, like these when I think of these books, I think of. I mean, again, this is personal opinion, and I know that this is part of why Kinder didn't necessarily fall in love with these books, but I think of the town, I think of the vibes, I think of the crazy antics and the relationships between the characters. That's what I think of.
00:50:44
Speaker
And I don't necessarily sit, well, and I mean, I guess I think about the third act breakups and how annoying they make, how annoyed they make me, but, um, but that's what I think of. I think of all those things. And I personally, for me, the things that Kendra is talking about, well, I don't necessarily disagree with all of the things except for the flat characters on, especially on a couple of characters. They didn't take away from, from me. Like, yeah, if they would have been added, maybe like a quarter star.
00:51:11
Speaker
would have been bumped up or something you know but they didn't that's not the reason why i didn't rate these books five stars the third act breakup is why i personally didn't rate most of these books
00:51:21
Speaker
I was a little bored during Love Light. Okay. Brandi, we're supposed to be on the, we're supposed to be defending here. Nothing is happening. Again, no plot. Thank you. If I would have had, I do think there's a plot, but I think if Luca had a POV in that book, I think I would have bumped it up at least like 0.25 stars. Yeah, I know. I know it's her debut. I guess I don't disagree with that either. But yeah, so it's what it is. I just think if you, there are better books that do vibes, better. Alden Alim is one of them.
00:51:54
Speaker
No. Unless they have good narrators. I just don't really care for Charlie that much or like Nova to be honest. I think it's just because like right now and this could change obviously once we get his book but right now Charlie just feels more like a character than like an actual character because he's just only doing like silly shit. And I just think if you again lack of planning if you knew he was going to be a love interest I think over time we should have just seen more of an appeal for him for me. Sorry.
00:52:14
Speaker
And she just had more to say. Will you be reading book four? No.
00:52:26
Speaker
Like I wish we learned more about him, besides him being Stella's stepbrother who just so happens to always be in fucking In Go Wild, go do your job. Anyway, Brandy and I will be reading.
Conclusion and Listener Engagement
00:52:43
Speaker
If the narrators are good, which given the track record of the series, I don't know, but if they're good, I'll read it. I'll listen to it. She produced all of those audio books herself. And now that it's a Berkeley book, I'm really, really hoping that it's going to be better for narrators. Unless she retains the rights to her audio books.
00:53:00
Speaker
I have had nothing but positive interactions with BK Morrison. However, I can tell she's not an audiobook girlie because if she was an audiobook girlie, the narrator for Caleb would not have made it past the first fucking round. He's horrendous. Hands down. That's why I say that's a particularly egregious one. You know, go to our Instagram. I just want to say this. If you love this series, that is amazing. Like, so many of my friends love this series, so I know I'm in the minority. Kayla, you look so annoyed with me. It's like...
00:53:31
Speaker
No, I just feel like so like I'm not I feel so conscious of it all like shut up No, I'm fine. Imagine if we did box club god, I Couldn't handle it. I would be I would be way more upset, but it's okay
00:53:45
Speaker
Anyway, yeah, let us know if you are a Love Live Farms lover or hater or somewhere in between. If you enjoyed us talking about Love Live Farms or Kendra critiquing Love Live Farms, go ahead and give this podcast five stars. We'd really appreciate it. And then go ahead and follow us over, like Kendra said, on Instagram, at bring your own pod. We post lots of stuff out there. Little cutesy stuff. Lots of fun stuff. All right. Bye, guys. Bye, guys.