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Secrets of Podcasting?! A Conversation with Verity Sangan
112 Plays7 months ago
In this episode, Satsunami is joined by the fantastic Verity Sangan, host of the Lazy Girl's Guide to Podcasting! What does it take to be a good podcaster? How should you market your show? And what are Verity's controversial podcasting/Star Wars takes?! Without any further ado, let's find out!
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to Chatsunami. Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Chatsunami. My name's Chatsunami and joining me today is none other than the fantastic host of the Lazy Girls Guide to Podcasting. It is none other than Verity. Verity, welcome to Chatsunami.
Podcasting Mishaps and Humor
00:00:33
Speaker
Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here. Yeah. How are you doing tonight? Do you know what? I'm doing well, but I'm actually looking through my glasses at the moment. I normally wear contact lenses. I walked up to the shop in the rain and it's just kind of hit me that the raindrops have dried on the glasses, but I can't pull them off now because of how my headphones are and it'll distort the audio. So other than not being able to see a hundred percent, doing great. Thank you yourself. Yeah, not too bad.
00:00:58
Speaker
got over the Morrison's cash checkout point disaster that we were just talking about. Oh, absolutely. So just to clean the listeners about what you're referring to there. Yeah, before we started this episode, very foolishly, I decided to quickly go to the shops and go through the self-service checkout. And this is how you know you're getting old when you start complaining about things like this. And when the machines don't work, I think they know. You know that way when people get paranoid about
00:01:28
Speaker
machines taking over and all that going to ruin people's lives forever. I think they're just petty, you know? Where they know you've got places to be and they're like, nah, can't scan that. Are you busy? Well, I'm busy too. I'm a machine. And you're like, I need to get on to it.
00:01:45
Speaker
interview. Come on, hurry up!" Then you have to put in the code for things. And I kid you not, this code was absolutely massive. So yeah, I got there in the end. I rushed up the road. We got there. So yeah, we're here to tell the tale. This is our confession. No, for legal reasons, that's a joke. Looking at my red panda lawyer in the corner like, yeah, no, no, no. Yeah, for legal reasons, that's a joke. I love that.
Inspiration and Naming of Podcast
00:02:08
Speaker
As I was saying before, you're indeed the host of the Lazy Girls Guide to Podcasting. First of all, absolutely love the name of the podcast. Thank you. I can't take all the credit for it. Somebody else gave me the idea, I will admit, but I quickly ran with the idea before anyone else could. What a great idea. Yes, exactly.
00:02:26
Speaker
Don't mind me, Trademark.com, yeah. Exactly. It's awful, isn't it? It's awful. No, not at all, because technically that's how Chat Tsunami came about as well, because I was talking to a friend and granted I had come up with the Sat Tsunami name and I was talking to a friend and I was like, right, what do I call this podcast? I call it the Sat Tsunami Variety Hour. I call it Satsu's Podcast. What do I call it? And then someone suggested, well, you know, something like Chat Tsunami, you know, Chat Tsunami, I was like,
00:02:56
Speaker
on a minute. It's actually a pretty good idea. And then you went to Trademark.com. No, I was already on the phone by then. You know, seeing 10 years, they'll be making a film of me on Amazon Prime, you know, like the founder only less horrible. I love that. Is it the social network that's the Facebook one? It is, yes. Yep. So there'll be a lot more scurrying men, a lot more people throwing things. Honestly, if Andrew Garfield plays me in the film, I'll be happy. That's all I'm saying. But anyway,
00:03:27
Speaker
So I have done that. I've seen your content pop up quite a lot because you do give absolutely fantastic advice when it comes to podcasting and things. And when I saw your content initially, I thought, you know what, I'll check this out. I'll see what you're actually saying. And I'm not going to lie, I was out earlier, as I said, the great battle of checkout earlier.
00:03:48
Speaker
And when I was driving, I was injuring a lot of your episodes. Aww, thank you. Honestly, you give some great advice. Aww, thank you. I'm not just saying that because you're on, because I know that sounds like it whenever someone's on there. You can't tell me it's crap if you want, I don't mind. I won't go and cry. No, no, your PayPal donation's already cleared, so we're good. Yes. We're good. Fine. I can put that towards the trademark.com fund. Yes.
00:04:18
Speaker
But no, in all seriousness, you have some absolutely fantastic advice and what I love about it as well is just the fact that not only is it yourself, I mean obviously the majority of the episodes are you bulk recording them, you're doing them solo, but you're also bringing in advice from other content creators and I think that is just absolutely fantastic. I was listening to I think a couple
00:04:44
Speaker
a couple of weeks ago, or it could have been longer, you're one about TikTok, I've listened to ones about your ideas about marketing, today I was listening to your thoughts on why people quit podcasts, you've just got such a plethora of really interesting content there. So I've got to ask just to kick things off, what was the inspiration for the podcast?
Verity's Podcasting Journey
00:05:05
Speaker
That's such a good question. I'm going to give you a short answer as possible because I feel like this story is quite long and I'm sure no one's about to think, oh my gosh, I really want to know half an hour of her life history. So I'm not going to give you the half hour spiel, but the short version is that this wasn't my original podcast. My first podcast was a podcast called The Confident CEO, which didn't even start out as that either. And it was kind of my first dipping my toe in the water for want of a better phrase into podcasting. And that show ran for about 50
00:05:34
Speaker
15 months before I felt that the conversation was just, it wasn't going forward anywhere. But what I was finding is that more and more people were coming to me saying, well, how do you do this with podcasting? How do you do that? And I want to start a podcast, bots. And I was thinking, all of these bots are kind of episode ideas. And then I was chatting to a friend
00:05:57
Speaker
as these kind of conversations kept going. I was chatting to her one afternoon and she was saying, oh, do you know what? I've spent two years not starting my podcast. How should I start? And I was thinking two years is a long time to think about doing something and not actually
Creating Concise Podcast Episodes
00:06:11
Speaker
doing it. And she goes, well, do you know what the thing is, is she goes, I just, I don't need all of this advice. I just need the lazy girl's guide of how to do this. And I was like, that's a great idea. I'm just going to write that down on a
00:06:22
Speaker
post-it note and I came up with the entire concept of the show that weekend and then started recording episodes and that kind of is the short story. I just, I don't know, I love talking about podcasting and I'm the first to admit that I don't always get it right in terms of trend prediction and
00:06:42
Speaker
some of my views I've been told are a little bit controversial but I don't know maybe that's why people come back to the podcast I just I really like to focus on those 10-minute episodes where we just deal with one aspect of podcasting because I'm completely self-taught with podcasting I do not have a bad
00:07:01
Speaker
in IT, engineering, anything like that. My background is actually in emergency assessment nursing and I now lecture in health and social care. So you could not get further away from anything audio related if you try. But I found that when I started my first podcast, I was just struggling to find really actionable tips and information. Maybe I was just looking in the wrong place. So the whole concept of Lazy Girls Guides Podcasting was essentially what I wanted
00:07:28
Speaker
about two and a half years ago when I started my own podcasting journey and I keep calling it it's a hobby that's got out of hand because I really feel like at this point it has got a bit out of hand because all I do is talk about podcasting now and think about I have conversations with people and all I'm thinking in the back of my mind is hmm that could be an episode next
Challenges in Podcast Growth
00:07:47
Speaker
month.
00:07:47
Speaker
Now I totally know what you mean in that regard. I have to say whenever I'm out with my partner, we'll walk in the dog or something, I'll turn around and say, oh, can I ask for a favour and she'll just turn around and say, are you recording? Yeah. Is that okay? She's like, yeah, okay, on you go kind of thing. And what do you mean? You look absolutely everywhere because before I got into podcasting, I decided during the lockdown to get into streaming and
00:08:12
Speaker
And I have to say that absolutely impacted the way I looked at content, especially video games where I would play a video game and then I would stop halfway through and think, this would be really good to play on stream or this would be really good for this and that. So now that I'm watching and doing a whole lot of other things like playing and such, I keep thinking exactly the same thing. It's like even when I go to a cafe or something that's new and I'm like, you know, this could be a good episode.
00:08:41
Speaker
And it is, it's absolutely crazy how it snowballs away from you. But I'm quite curious, and I don't want to get your podcast cancelled here, but when you said about your quote-unquote controversial views, how controversial are we talking? Are we talking Blue Yeti controversial or? I'm recording on a Blue Yeti at the moment. I like Blue Yeti. Don't come after me, please.
00:09:08
Speaker
because I know that there are probably anybody who's a podcaster. I feel that podcasters really sit in two camps. They're either diehard blue yeti lovers, or they just want to go around the world and pick up every blue yeti and burn it. I don't, well, bin it. I don't think they're burned very well. They're made out of metal. But you get my point. I feel like people are, it's like, I wouldn't say I'm that controversial, but I would say that, when I say some of my topics are quite controversial, I would say that I don't necessarily follow a lot of the maybe
00:09:38
Speaker
stagnant. Is that the right word I want? It's something like more traditional information that is out there. So as an example, I don't have an intro on my podcast, which some people completely shudder at that idea because they're like, but that's the first thing that you need for a podcast is an intro. And
00:09:54
Speaker
I'm not knocking anybody who's got an intro for their podcast. Lazy Girls Guide to Podcasting had an intro for the first however many episodes, but actually I decided to just take it out and now every episode just starts off
Defining Success in Podcasting
00:10:05
Speaker
with, hi everybody, and you know, just launches straight into the content. And I remember when I first mentioned that to people.
00:10:11
Speaker
That almost felt controversial where people were like, why do you not have an intro? Because every podcast guru and anyone in podcasting tells you that's what you need. And it's something that I've preached for a very long time as well. Other things that I do, so like interviews, for example, because my episodes are so short, I do split interviews into different episodes. And again, I've had people saying, well, why are you doing that? Why don't you just keep it all as one? I've had one interview where I split it into four different episodes.
00:10:40
Speaker
I'm like, that's because my listeners come to the podcast expecting 10-15 minute episodes. So if I start putting out something that's nearly an hour long, that's not going to work with my audience. That's going to feel very jarring for them. Oh, I did one where I went on a little bit of a soapbox rant all about how you shouldn't do listens for listens and subscribes for subscribes and stuff, which again, feels a little bit the anti-Facebook
00:11:03
Speaker
five because I find that there's a lot of groups on Facebook where people like, you know, put your episode here, we'll all listen to it and then you listen to our latest episode and then we'll subscribe to you and then we'll also, you know, yeah, I went on a little bit of a soapbox rant about that and why I didn't think that was necessarily the best way to go. So when I say I'm controversial, I'm not saying controversial in terms of, I don't know, something really, really extreme, but it is in terms of just can we actually buck
00:11:29
Speaker
this quote-unquote norm that we've been taught or can we maybe look at things in a slightly different way? Why are we following these kind of invisible podcasting rules essentially? Now I have to say I listen to your episodes on the subscribe for subscribe, listen for listen and I have to say I'm totally on board with you so that's two people for them to cancel.
00:11:53
Speaker
I love that. We'll make a round club. I know, come at us. No, I'm completely with you because, as I said, as someone who was into streaming during the beginning of the lockdown and came the midway through, there was a huge culture, and I think there probably still is, of people saying that they would follow for follow and things like that. And I'm not going to be all high and mighty and say that I didn't partake in a cheeky wee bit of follow for follow.
00:12:18
Speaker
Oh, no, we've all done it. Oh, absolutely. I'll be honest, we have all been there. I think and this is the thing you've got to try out these strategies to actually figure out why and how they don't work for you. So absolutely, we've all been there because in the short term, I think it
00:12:33
Speaker
probably does your podcast good or show or channel or whatever in a very short term, obviously you're going to get a boost. But something you actually did mention in that episode, and I was listening to it today, which was quite lucky, was just the fact that it doesn't really build a community for your podcast or your show or channel or whatever. It gives you short term gains, but it doesn't really help you in the long term. And I am totally with you there.
00:13:01
Speaker
It feels as if, and it's the hardest thing I think for a lot of podcasters to swallow essentially, that you're gonna go in and unless you're a celebrity, unless you're a well-known figure or an influencer to begin with, you're not gonna get people sitting waiting for you. You know, you might have
00:13:19
Speaker
your friends, your family listening, but you're not really going to have anybody just suddenly turning up and you have to work for that. You have to build that up and you have to make sure that you're providing a space that people are going to come back to. And as you said, if you have somebody saying, oh, I'll listen to one of your episodes and if they don't vibe with that or they say, that's not for me, they're not coming back.
00:13:41
Speaker
you might have one more download, but what's one more download when you're not going to get it in the future?
Misconceptions About Podcasting
00:13:47
Speaker
So maybe it's controversial to a lot of starter podcasts, but I'm totally with you there. I do think that it takes a lot of effort. I'm falling back onto cliches here, but Rome wasn't built in a day, and now you're a podcast.
00:14:03
Speaker
100%. I mean, they do say, don't they, that it's like 80% of, 80 I realised last week is a real podcasting number. We like the name 80, the number 80% and podcasting for some strange reason. But they say something like, you know, 80% of podcasts won't get past episode three. And then the ones that do don't get past episode eight and then episode 10. And I think a lot of it
00:14:24
Speaker
and this is just colloquial from conversations that I've had with people, is I think a lot of it is we go on Instagram, we go on TikTok, we go on YouTube, and we are used to seeing these hundreds of thousands, millions of likes of saves of watches, whatever it is, because depending on the platform or what have you. And I think what a lot of people, particularly new podcasters almost struggle with is that understanding that podcast numbers are so different
00:14:52
Speaker
to all of the other platforms that you've got out there. And actually for a lot of new podcasters to get downloads in the double figures is a huge achievement. Because like you said, you can't just expect people to find your podcast. And I speak to some people and they're like, oh, but you know, why is it not like YouTube? And I'm like, well, first and foremost, because YouTube is the second biggest search engine globally. And it's owned by the biggest search engine globally. However, you don't go onto Apple Podcasts
00:15:21
Speaker
podcasts or Spotify or what have you and use it as a search engine in the same way. So therefore people aren't finding and engaging with your content in the same way as you can be found on YouTube. And I think that's probably one of the biggest things that people get tripped up on, particularly when they're new to podcasting. As I said, the difference in the numbers from social media and YouTube to podcasting is just
00:15:44
Speaker
miles and miles different and you really can't compare the two because they're just two completely different beasts almost. I don't know if you agree with that or? No I'm totally with you there. Genuinely it feels as if when you
00:16:00
Speaker
choosing a platform to present yourself you have to choose very carefully about what you're trying to get across so for example if you're doing podcasting you might decide to focus more on audio only content or you know if you are filming yourself then chances are you'll want to put on something like YouTube which is a free platform it's the biggest one but personally for me I'm not a big fan of YouTube as
00:16:27
Speaker
a creator as someone who consumes a lot of YouTube videos and
Choosing the Right Platform
00:16:32
Speaker
things. Yeah, I love it. But in terms of the way it treats creators at the bottom or the wrong, I find it really hard to actually climb up and get noticed on it. And you know, lots of people have success right off the bat. Other people don't. That is perfectly fine, but it's all subjective. And I feel as if this is a massive problem within indie content creation. And I don't know how you feel about
00:16:55
Speaker
about this, but there's a lot of people who seem to think that there's a one size fits all solution to success. You can have the blueprint and the scaffolding to say, okay, this is what I'm going to do. I'm going to get a decent mic. I'm going to get a nice quiet space. I'm going to write a script for the first episode. You know, those are the basic things, but I think people get the basics mixed up with
00:17:19
Speaker
what people are telling them that if you do this you'll be the bestest podcaster in the world kind of thing and I hate to say it but in my experience I find as if sometimes it can be quite random, not always but usually it can be quite random, in how fast one grows.
00:17:37
Speaker
Oh yeah, completely, 100%. And I think when you were talking about success there, I was smiling to myself because I ran a podcasting workshop earlier in the year and somebody said to me as part of the Q&A of that workshop is how do I make my podcast successful?
00:17:54
Speaker
And my answer to them was, well, how do you define what success is? And they were like, well, making money, obviously. I was like, well, no, I hate to tell you, but that isn't very obvious.
Strategies for Podcast Monetization
00:18:04
Speaker
And I think a lot of the time when people talk about podcasting success, they are talking about almost being the next Joe Rogan or Stephen Bartlett or, you know, insert name of podcaster who was making a living or, you know, making a lot of money doing their podcasting. And I think for some people monetization isn't success.
00:18:21
Speaker
it could be that sharing your message is your version of success, or it could be that actually just sticking to a content schedule and getting an episode out every week or every two weeks, whatever, that is your version of success. So I think for a lot of people going into any kind of content creation, is it's first really thinking to yourself, what is
00:18:42
Speaker
success? Is it bringing people into my business? Is it making money? Is it having these amazing merchandise t-shirts that everybody buys? Is it creating a community? Is it you get my point, but really just figuring out what is that success and kind of remembering that just because
00:19:00
Speaker
you know, your numbers are high or low doesn't really mean that that equates to success. I know people who have very low download numbers in the scheme of podcasting downloads, who have very, quote unquote, successful shows, because they are highly strategic with their podcast. And the podcasts are at the top of marketing funnel for their businesses, for example. So, you know, it works really well in that respect. So I think that's probably where people trip up from the outset is they don't really know what
00:19:29
Speaker
the purpose of their podcast is, and this is what I always say to people when they're starting a podcast as well, is just really think what is that purpose? If your podcast was successful, how would you define that success? And also, what's the purpose in terms of is it a how to? Are you entertaining people? Are you providing education? Is it to interview guests? Just what is that kind of why? What's that
00:19:49
Speaker
philosophy right at the beginning. After I gave this answer to this person on this workshop, they just kind of sat back and they were like, oh, I've got a lot of work to do before I start my podcast. And I was like, I wouldn't say a lot of work, but maybe just some inner conversations and inner questions as to how we're going to define what that successful piece is going to look like. And I think it's really interesting as well what you're saying about YouTube, because
00:20:11
Speaker
Ladies and Girls Guide to Podcasting is on YouTube. Is it on YouTube though? Well, yes, because it's just sound bites that are created that go up there. It's nothing special at all, but it works from, because people do listen to it over on YouTube, not masses of people.
00:20:26
Speaker
I am very passionate about the fact that my podcast is an audio podcast made for podcasting directories first, and it just happens to be on YouTube second. Because you know what, if I wanted it to be quote unquote successful on YouTube, then I know that I need to apply an
00:20:44
Speaker
incredibly different strategy to what I apply to the podcast being on the podcasting apps and directories. And again, I've said this to people in that same workshop is you've kind of got to make that decision is, are you a podcast first that's on podcasting directories that then happens to be on YouTube? Or are you a YouTube channel that then just happens to have the audio also on podcast directories? Because they're two very different things. So you kind of need to decide what is your
00:21:13
Speaker
main, if that makes sense. And then which one do you just also happen to be on? Because as I said, your strategies are just going to be so different. And unless you are either amazing at working out those strategies, a lot of us are very, very time strapped. And you know, we've also got families and I don't know, jobs, those wonderful things and you know, things like that. So then it would be a case of, well, are you able to then outsource to people who are
00:21:37
Speaker
experts in getting things big on, you know, noticed on YouTube or podcasting directories and what have you. And as I said, I think that gets massively underappreciated in podcasting
Consistency in Podcast Growth
00:21:45
Speaker
as well. And that is an excellent point about going back to what you were saying at the beginning about the definition of success, especially with podcasts, because I have to admit it's a bit of a pet peeve with me where whenever an indie content creator comes onto the scene, there's a lot of people who want to be the next
00:22:04
Speaker
ex-creator, you know, it's like they don't want to be themselves. When I listen to your podcast, I know that you're coming through as yourself, you're talking about your own genuine feelings and things. When I try to talk, I have to admit, I try my best as well to just convey what I'm thinking, what I feel, but you get a lot of people who their kind of view of success and everything
00:22:29
Speaker
seems to be more, as you said, oh I want to be the next so-and-so, I want to be rich and famous and things, and they're kind of looking at it at the very end of the journey. They're not actually seeing the road they're walking on, they're seeing the big mansion at the end of the road.
00:22:45
Speaker
massively. And I think it just gets so underappreciated just how long it takes to really cultivate podcast growth. And I mean, I don't know about you, but one thing that I've seen about for a lot of podcasters that I know, and I saw this for myself for both podcasts is actually got to about the five, six month mark. And that's when I really started to say for both podcasts, the stats, just every kind of stats increase. And it's almost like
00:23:12
Speaker
How can I put it? I feel like in 2023, 2024, and probably even more going forward, that podcast listeners are really getting wise to the fact that there are a lot of people that start podcasts and then give up with them. And it's almost starting to feel that podcast listeners are kind of waiting to see, well, is there about
00:23:29
Speaker
catalogue. If I get invested in this, is it going to continue? So once they can see that catalogue, then you know that people seem to be more interested in actually sticking with somebody for the journey obviously doesn't apply because we know that there are a lot of really good podcasts that are only six episodes long, but they were only ever intended to be a short series. I'm not talking about those kind of podcasts. I'm talking about you know, the long ones where you're saying you're going to put out a weekly episode, but then you only do it for two months and there's nothing else because I think also what people need to remember is that humans are creatures of habit
00:23:59
Speaker
And we like to know that Tuesday morning on my drive to work verities podcast, there's a new episode out and I can listen to that. Cause it came out six in the morning. So when I'm driving to work at eight, I can listen to that episode. And you know, I can completely relate to that. I listened to a podcast every single Monday morning on the way to work. And for the last two weeks, they haven't put out an episode and I've been genuinely lost. What am I supposed to listen to? And I've now started this amazing audio book.
00:24:25
Speaker
But it also means that because I've got six hours left at this audiobook, I'm probably not going to listen to their podcast for the next month now on a Monday, because I need to get through the audiobook, if that makes sense. So I think that kind of thing gets massively disappreciated as well. Like I said, just how long it takes to grow that loyalty from people and really start to see that return on
Effort in Podcast Marketing
00:24:48
Speaker
podcasting.
00:24:48
Speaker
Because I have to say and this is something that I've brought up in past episodes as well but when I started out in 2020 I started streaming and then one of my friends was like oh do you want to try podcasting because I kept venting to him saying that I was kind of getting frustrated about the progress I was making and things and I was relatively enjoying it
00:25:11
Speaker
It was a great way to collaborate with friends and keep in contact with them, but then my friend was like, well, you like the talking bit, so why not start a podcast? So I decided, yeah, let's get into it and try it. And I have to say the first couple of months when I was doing it, I did the first season live on Twitch.
00:25:31
Speaker
which I have to say is a completely different kettle of fish. I'm glad that I don't do that anymore. But for those first few months, watching the podcast grow really slowly, and I mean, at the very beginning, I didn't even have a separate page for the podcast. I was just like,
00:25:48
Speaker
Right, OK, this is a side thing. I'll do what I can, but I'm not really too fast. I'm more focused on streaming at the time. And I'm not going to lie, so you're looking back on it compared to where I am now, because I know that I post a lot of, quote unquote, victory posts where I'll be like, oh, I just reached this milestone. I think a month or two ago, we finally reached the 50,000 plays mark.
00:26:13
Speaker
was so exciting, by the way, when I saw that. I was so excited for you. Thank you. Honestly, it was absolutely surreal to see it go up and then I hit 50. I was like, oh my goodness, I still need to put out a celebration episode. Working on it, working on it. Absolutely. But I had
00:26:28
Speaker
At the same time, there were so many times throughout my podcasting journey where I would look at the numbers whether they would plateau some months or they would get as popular as I wanted them to. Maybe I wasn't even getting the listener feedback and I genuinely thought there and then maybe I should just pull the plug in the podcast.
00:26:49
Speaker
and I thought, you know what, I probably don't know if I should be going on. If I'm not getting as much feedback as anybody listening, as at any point, you go through these things, but that's something that they really don't. And by they, I mean, podcasters as a whole, they really do not warn me about it because another pet peeve of mine, I have to say, don't worry, this is the last pet peeve in an outfit. It's all right, keep going. I'll turn this into an episode for next month.
00:27:13
Speaker
Oh, absolutely, go for it. But one of the things that really ticks me off is when people undersell the amount of effort that you put into a podcast where a lot of people say, oh, you just turn on a microphone and you speak into it and then, oh, you're going to get millions of things. It's like, well, no, not at all. Because for me personally, and I'm assuming you'll be the same as well, that you have to make sure you know what you're saying. You have to research the topic. Then you have to edit it. You have to mark
00:27:42
Speaker
get it, you have to put it out, you have to schedule it, make sure it's going out. If it's topical, you have to make sure it's coming out at the exact same time as the popular topic. Actually, one of the ones that that reminded me of was your Taylor Swift episode. I was listening to both of them and I thought that was so fascinating when you were talking about trends and acting. Sorry, I know that's a brief aside.
00:28:05
Speaker
No, it's fine. Honestly, I did this episode about Taylor Swift, and for anyone who hasn't got no idea, please go and chat. I can't remember which number episode it is, but Lazy Girls Guide to Podcasting, the episode is called, How the Taylor Swift Nude Scandal Affected My Podcast Ratings, because I did this whole episode prior to that, all about how Taylor Swift could really teach us a lot about podcasting in this idea of being adaptable,
00:28:30
Speaker
and, you know, not really listening to other people, but still taking on board feedback at the same time. And it was just, I loved it. I thought it was such a good episode and I'd put so much effort into the keyword research for it. And I was like, this is just going to be beautiful. And do you know what? The episode numbers tanked.
00:28:48
Speaker
And I couldn't figure it out at all. I was like, literally, everybody in the world loves Taylor Swift, it feels at this point. I am, you know, not that I expected every single Swiftie to listen to it, obviously, because that's not how SEO works. And that's a very jaded view. But I thought, you know, maybe I could use these keywords, the SEO, etc., to try and get in front of different people. As you know, Twitter or X is the place where I hang out the most. And that week,
00:29:13
Speaker
that I published that episode, the search phrase for anything to do with Taylor Swift was blocked on Twitter because of the fake AI nude scandal. And I was like, that was just, I couldn't have timed that if I'd tried. I really couldn't. It just made me laugh. But to go back to your point about the time that it goes into podcasting, I 100% agree. And I think the biggest thing I
00:29:33
Speaker
everyone goes on about editing. And I have to say, I try and edit one for one. So if I record for 10 minutes, I try to only edit for 10 to 15 minutes, because I like my episodes to be kind of like as raw as possible. But then I know that that doesn't work for a lot of podcasters. But I think that the time that gets most disappreciated is, as you said, it's the marketing, it's, you know, the keyword
00:29:56
Speaker
research for different social media platforms, the keyword research for your show notes as well, and for your URL titles. As you can tell, I love SEO and I put a lot of emphasis on SEO for the podcast. And you know, it's also, it's those titles, those podcast titles, you want something that's going to grip people, but it's also going to work well from a search point of view. And then as you said as well, it's not just those points, it's also which
00:30:22
Speaker
platforms are you showing up on? Where are your listeners going to be? And is it video that we're creating? Is it audiograms? Is it that we're creating a carousel or posts or whatever it looks like? But all of that content as well, I would say that I probably spend for each episode
00:30:38
Speaker
episode that comes out, I would say that I probably spend about 80% of the total episode time on marketing. So I would say I easily spend minimum of 10 hours per week on my podcast. And I would say that eight of that is to do with marketing the podcast and just growing the audience, engaging with
00:30:58
Speaker
the community and what have you. And yeah, I do think that it's the marketing side that gets completely not forgotten about, but I think a lot of people think, Oh, well, I just throw up a couple of tweets or a couple of, you know, posts on Instagram. And you're like, Oh no, because if everyone did that and it really worked, then we'd all have millions of downloads and we'd all be, you know, millionaires at this stage.
00:31:18
Speaker
So I think that that is something that, as you said, just doesn't get talked about enough. And I don't know about you, but every podcaster that I've ever met bar one does not have a marketing background. So we are all self-taught and so much of it is trial and error. So that again, adds its own dynamic into the mix, really.
00:31:38
Speaker
feel as if we are all going in learning as we go with the job as such and I feel bad saying that podcasting is a job but it does feel like a second job at times because going on to what you were saying before about the time dedication towards marketing, I was actually talking to another podcaster about this and they were telling me how they were sick of having to have
00:32:03
Speaker
a page on social media site X, social media site Y, social media site Z, that kind of thing.
Social Media Strategies for Growth
00:32:13
Speaker
And the reason being that there's just so many of them and it can be frustrating because we know why Twitter has turned the way it is. We don't have to state the obvious.
00:32:24
Speaker
It's quite interesting to see how things have changed and how other indie creators have been impacted, so they might not be as viral as it used to be, but because of that, you've got Twitter Lite websites coming out, you know, you've got
00:32:40
Speaker
threads, which is a bit of a mixed bag. I think it's got some good elements, but still not got that reachability. And the other site that was moaning to one of my friends about was the whole blue sky thing, which I thought the idea of it was interesting. But if you were trying to grow there as a creator, the last place you want to grow is a site that's limited by an invite-only system. Definitely.
00:33:05
Speaker
So you're only going to get a set amount of users from that, but then again, as you were saying as well, if you go on to YouTube, you have to make it very distinctive and very, I wouldn't say flashy, but you have to make it visually appealing. Oh yeah, and the bar is so high for YouTube these days.
00:33:22
Speaker
as well. So I think that's why I was like, do you know what, my podcast, as I said, it goes up, it's just, it's hooked up to YouTube via the RSS feed. It just creates a standard audiogram. And the plan is that when the podcast is making me millions, which obviously I'm manifesting and it totally will one day, she says, but you know, when we get to that stage, then I can hire
00:33:45
Speaker
an absolutely amazing studio and somebody to edit all of the YouTube stuff and do whatever it is that needs to make it fancy. But I know that I am not that person right at this second in time. So I'm a bit like, do you know what? I'd rather put my efforts into the bits that I am good at, i.e. the podcast basing stuff, podcast directories, etc. And then the YouTube stuff can come later.
00:34:07
Speaker
I have to say, not to reference too many of your episodes, but you know what, I'm going to go wild here, but I have to say, one of the episodes that really stood out to me, and I think it was one of the tweets you sent out about how TikTok wasn't working for you. No, yes.
00:34:22
Speaker
I felt so vindicated seeing when you sent that out and I was like, oh my God, there's actually another person who agrees because I have to say C out of all of them. TikTok is by far my least favourite. As you know, and of course the lovely listeners at home though, I'm not very confident in sharing my face and things on the
00:34:45
Speaker
podcast because at the end of the day, don't get me wrong, I'm not hiding like I was going to joke and say, oh, a handsome visage or anything like that. No, no, no, no. But the fact is, when I want people to think about chat tsunami for me personally, I want them to see that Red Panda logo and I want them to think, oh, right, it's chat tsunami. It's a conversation between friends. It's a very varied podcast and things. I want them to associate everything with the podcast rather than me, if that makes sense.
00:35:14
Speaker
Yeah, 100%. But with TikTok, it's very, very visual. And I'm going to be honest, I am just over the threshold of my thirties and I'm not going to lie, I don't have the knees for dancing like that anymore.
00:35:30
Speaker
I mean, I think as well, I love that you referenced that episode. That's been our most downloaded episode to date. So that is telling me that it is not just you and me, there are other people, but yes, I went on a bit of a rant it feels as to why I just quit advertising, or not my advertising, but marketing on TikTok. And I think as well to me, it just got to the point where I was like, this is just
00:35:50
Speaker
another social media platform where I need to learn the rules, for want of a better word, and then I need to keep up with the rules. I know Twitter, I'm happy with Twitter, I can work that. I'm happy with how my LinkedIn works as well. Instagram, I go through phases, but I've been very consistent so far this year, so well done, maybe consistent for a quarter. But again, keeping up
00:36:11
Speaker
with the algorithm changes, particularly on Instagram, can feel like a bit of a headache because it works so differently to how LinkedIn and Twitter work. And for me, TikTok, I was like, this is just another thing that I cannot be bothered in. And it was literally just, I can't be bothered to learn this. I do not have the capacity to be doing this as well. And I feel like almost that was slightly controversial because
00:36:34
Speaker
So much of the advice at the moment is if you want to grow your podcast, make sure that you are putting things on TikTok. And do you know what? I have got so much respect to anybody who is able to grow their podcast successfully on TikTok because it is just not something that I've got down at all. If anybody is listening and they're a TikTok expert and they want to do my TikTok for free, because like I said, I'm not adding millions with the podcast yet.
00:36:57
Speaker
You know, feel free to get in touch, but it's the point that, yeah, it was just an extra thing to learn. And I think the premise of that episode was just, it's better to stick with a few things, I think, and do them really well than it is to spread yourself so thin that actually nobody comes to your podcast because you're not building a community because you're just trying to keep up with so many things. I mean, for me, my biggest, I've probably got three biggest things that I pay the most attention to for growing the podcast and those are
00:37:25
Speaker
SEO. It's building my newsletter email list and it's also focusing on my Twitter audience. Everything else kind of comes secondary in some ways, but I know that the majority of my listeners come from Twitter, which always surprises people when I say that because people are like, is Twitter not dead? And I'm like, wow, they listen to my podcast.
00:37:45
Speaker
Yeah, I have to agree with you there. And again, I'm not just saying that because you're all... It's okay. You can disagree with me. I won't be upset. Oh, no, don't worry. It was a very hefty bribe you gave me on PayPal earlier. So, you know, I think we've got another half an hour. I think maybe a couple minutes. So we're all good.
00:38:04
Speaker
But no, in all seriousness, I know what you mean because I feel as if I am on, not absolutely everything, but I'm on nearly everything. I'm on Twitch, of course, which I have to say I don't use as much anymore. I'm on Facebook, which I only use as a dumping ground for things. I post on Instagram, so I'll post something on Instagram, and then that's set up to automatically post to Facebook. And Facebook isn't popular at all, and I have to admit I don't put as much effort into it.
00:38:34
Speaker
but it's the same kind of thinking, especially with YouTube because I use Headliner, the app, to basically set up audiograms of the episodes and upload them onto YouTube. So although it's technically a dumping ground, I'd rather it was there so that people could find the podcast.
00:38:54
Speaker
and say alright where else can I find this and I can direct them towards either the website or any podcasts and apps and things but I'm totally with you there. Although there's a lot of really bad changes to Twitter, there has been nothing and I mean absolutely nothing so far, at least as of recording this episode, that has thrown the platform
00:39:17
Speaker
as such.
Relevance of Twitter for Podcasts
00:39:18
Speaker
And I find this very morbidly fascinating because for all everybody saying old Twitter's dying and so on and the site, the obvious reasons of its decline, the fact of the matter is there's been no real challenger as such that's done a good job. I remember when it was announced the transition of ownership was going to take place and then there was a site, I don't know if you remember this, it was called Hive, I think.
00:39:44
Speaker
I do not remember that one at all. Yeah, it was very short-lived. Oh, dear. I mean, it had loads of security issues and things like that. I ended up deleting our channel because I was like, OK, this is a bit much. I've tried. Is it mastodon or?
00:40:01
Speaker
Oh yes, I've heard of this. I haven't been on it, but I've heard of it. Yeah, I'm not a big fan at all. Again, you have to seek out these things. It's not like you appeared on someone's For You page, so you're constantly having to seek out people and seek out communities, and you're like, well, you might as well go on Facebook for that, which is already established. It's already more prominent, so why not go there? And you're like,
00:40:24
Speaker
Well, I don't know, so it's frustrating in a way, but it's also, unfortunately, the truth of it. And again, mileage may vary or flux may vary, but at the end of the day, you just have to use what works for you. And I'm totally with you, I feel as if.
00:40:41
Speaker
Twitter seems to be the one that we get the most engagement out of as well but if I did get loads of follows and things off of something like threads or Instagram or things I would definitely be putting my eggs in that basket but
00:40:56
Speaker
it's quite dynamic in the way that you have to shift your focus isn't it? You know you can't just say oh I'm gonna put all my eggs into like this particular social media site because you know next week I could shut down unexpectedly so then you think okay where am I gonna go from here but there's kind of an imbalance there isn't there?
00:41:14
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's always got to be that kind of marriage between where your potential listeners or ideal audience are hanging out, but also the platforms that you like to show up on as well, because I do think it's very obvious. I will say when people show up on platforms and you can tell that they don't really like it so much, and maybe it's not the place that they're the most happy showing up or what have you, my Instagram, for example.
00:41:41
Speaker
I have to say I'm in the same boat with Instagram. No matter how many cute dog pictures or things like that I put up. The numbers still stay the same and you're like, what do I have to do? Yeah, I don't know. I feel like for Instagram has got or it could just be my feed. It's very marketing centric.
00:41:59
Speaker
Everybody on my feed just wants something or money for something and everyone's trying to sell me something on Instagram. So I don't know. I feel like I've fallen down the wrong hole of it or the wrong side of it, maybe, but it's like anything, isn't it?
Generational Reflections on Culture
00:42:12
Speaker
It's just, it's wherever you prefer to show up and Twitter's that for me at the moment.
00:42:16
Speaker
Well, I mean, to be fair, TikTok's exactly the same. Like, I don't know if you've been on recently or seen what it's turned into, but literally every second video is some random person saying, oh, do you want to buy 100 rolls of toilet paper? And I'm like, no, no. Oh, really? But we went through the pandemic and all we did was buy toilet paper. I know. I'm like, where the hell is this coming from?
00:42:41
Speaker
It's like, no, no, you're all right. So then you flick again and it's either going to be another advert for a big company like the latest film or TV show or something like that, or even worse, it's going to be quite possibly one of the worst live streams that you'll ever see in your life. Some of them are just bad. Oh, some of them are horrific.
00:43:03
Speaker
I mean, this is coming from somebody who's streamed as well. Anybody who knows horrific is me, but you know, you have things that are borderline against the TOS or at best it's people just sitting in silence looking at the camera or you know, it's just as bizarre things. You look at these live streams and they've got thousands of views. Again, normally I would never say this against anybody, but they just don't provide any value for their content.
00:43:32
Speaker
it's things as if it's literally someone who has turned on the camera, they're sitting there and then they're arguing about something in bad faith or they're just sitting there listening to other people argue. Clearly they know what they're doing but at the same time you're like, it's not exactly the best look for people on the outside who are saying, oh look at these youngins who are
00:43:57
Speaker
It's getting it so easy these days. Or maybe it's just us who are the wrong side of 30, who you just don't get it. Maybe it's that. My daughter asked me recently, how did she phrase it? Did I remember the war? Now out of all the wars that she could have thought of, she meant the First World War. I was like, not quite, darling. Not quite. So yeah, maybe we're just the wrong side of 30. We just don't get it. Probably. That does make me sad right now.
00:44:23
Speaker
Because I have to say, as someone who studies history in uni and then is an avid gamer as well, this is what depresses me whenever I go to any of these comic conventions, any of these shops and they're like, come and see the retro gaming section. And you go to see it and you're like, Jesus Christ, these are the things that I grew up with.
00:44:42
Speaker
See, I find that with music though, I have, so I tend to teach 16 to 18 year olds, like, oh, have you heard this really old band, this really vintage band? And they're talking about people like Eminem and I'm like, he's not old, is he? Is Eminem old? I don't think he is. Oh, no.
00:44:57
Speaker
Yes, there's this band that's gone viral, they're so vintage, they're called Blink 182. Oh my god no, Blink 182 first of all, but what? It's just so depressing, isn't it? See when you see these trends pick up and it's like, oh look at this old song and everything. Like I think one of the ones that popped up as far as I remember was, and again I wouldn't recommend the film, but you know that salt burn film?
00:45:22
Speaker
Oh yeah, yeah. The old Sophie Alice Baxter song. Yep, that's the one, Murder on the Dance Floor. Yes, Murder on the Dance Floor, yes. And everyone's singing it at the moment. It's so, yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's so catchy. Oh yeah, great song. Yeah, but you're like, why is everyone singing that? And then you're like, oh, oh no, oh no. Yes.
00:45:38
Speaker
It is now classic. It's an old-fashioned song. It's just, it's so sad. It makes me feel so old. Oh, no, I'm totally with you there. I mean, especially, I have to say, I'm in that mindset of, see, when you look back at the 90s, and I'm like, yeah, that was 10 years ago. And it's like, no, it was 30 years ago. But I read, well, this is it. I read something the other day and it was, music in the 2000s is now just as old as music in the 80s was in the 2000s.
Analyzing Star Wars Prequels
00:46:04
Speaker
And I was like,
00:46:05
Speaker
No, that was a pretty mind-blowing moment, I have to say. Yeah, that was pretty mind-blowing. Well, this is it. I was there like counting on my fingers. I was like, no, this can't be right at all. But yeah, just go into teaching if you want to feel old. I feel old all the time. Oh, yeah, no. I remember I used to volunteer at a gift club years and years ago. And the amount of things that as they grew older, you know, they moved through the years and everything, you just got a whole bunch of new kids who were talking about things that you had absolutely zero
00:46:35
Speaker
clue about it. You know I think it's different probably, well you'll know that if you have kids you'll have more of a grasp on it but the amount of things that pop up and I have to say even with slang on the internet, I mean I remember WTF LOL LMAO Rofocopter
00:46:53
Speaker
There'll be some young listeners listening to this going, that's it, what the hell are you saying? What is that? And then you listen to someone there slang and you're like, obviously it's a sign of the times, but I feel sorry for my parents who must have been like, I can't believe our son didn't know who, I don't know, Bon Jovi was or, you know, the Beatles or something when I was younger. So you hear them for the first time and you go, actually they're quite a good band and everything. It is scary, I have to say. Yeah, sobering, isn't it?
00:47:22
Speaker
It's opening, that is an excellent word. But actually speaking of that, moving slightly away from podcasting, what kind of things do you do to relax from podcasting? Because I know you said you and I are always switched on to thinking about podcasting topics and things like that, but what other things do you usually either watch, play or such to unwind?
00:47:46
Speaker
That's a really good question because my life feels like it's either work, the kids or podcasting. But I also have this ongoing joke that nobody, I mean, hopefully nobody in my life will die under suspicious circumstances anyway. But if they did and I was a prime suspect, it would be, I think the police would have a field day on me because I'm always reading murder mystery novels. And my Netflix account is always on, you know, those crazy documentaries that you're just like, what?
00:48:12
Speaker
people lived like this and I'm really into that kind of thing. And then otherwise we're a big Star Wars household. We're big into Harry Potter in this household. Yeah. I would say that we're big into Pokemon, but I would say that that's the other half of the family. I know the original storylines and what have you. I'm not very good on anything updated, but yeah, I would say that it's Oh and Eating Chocolate. I think those are probably my biggest things outside of podcasting. I mean, to be fair, those are very great hobbies to me.
00:48:41
Speaker
It's one we can all aspire to, to be honest. I have to say though, on the note of Star Wars, you put a tweet out the other day, it's something about watching episode three, as in chronological order, episode three, and I commented on it. It's about it not being my favourite. I don't know if you noticed the person who commented underneath have the same surname as me, that was my husband.
00:49:03
Speaker
Outraged that I don't like number three and that conversation very much carried on off of Twitter because I'm yeah I'm not a fan of number three at all. Cinematography I think it's beautiful but the script sorry Star Wars people who wrote the script I just don't think it was the best at all. So when you say not the best do you mean out the three prequels or do you mean in general?
00:49:24
Speaker
out of all of them so like the nine story ones but then also everything that slots in between that so like you know how they had road one and they had oh what was the i can't think what the other one was called so that's it solo and out of everything yeah i don't rate that one i'm quite passionate about this
00:49:42
Speaker
I have to say the prequels are definitely lower on my rankings, I have to say. And as of this episode, for anybody curious, we have a whole month of Star Wars content that we published last month. So if you want to check out, please do read to check out our full opinions.
00:50:01
Speaker
think out of the prequels, my favourite one is probably Phantom Menace because I think it's a real, it's got this really family film kind of element to it that I think they got quite right. But then I feel like it just was like, ah, we've only got two films to do all of this backstory. And it was just, it was too much.
00:50:19
Speaker
to fit into two films. I mean, obviously, that's why they went and created the Clone Wars series and what have you, isn't it? But I hated number two, I thought Clone Wars was awful film. And it wasn't until I actually watched the Clone Wars series, long after it came out, I was very late to that party that I was like, Oh, yeah, it's not actually a terrible film. They just didn't explain hours and hours and hours worth of cartoon storyline in it.
00:50:43
Speaker
Yeah, I think they just tried to put too much into two films only and I just don't think there was enough back explanation. And then George Lucas is like, Verity, whoever you are, I really don't care about your opinion because I'm sitting here pretty and made for life and I've given lots of people jobs and made people famous. So what does my opinion matter? Well, you say famous, but it could also be infamous, depending on who you are.
00:51:05
Speaker
That's very true. That's very true. But I think do you follow Mark Hamill on Twitter? He's brilliant. He is brilliant, that guy, because he just accepts and excels and loves the fact that he was Luke Skywalker, doesn't he? And he's just he owns that to an absolute hilt. And I just think that's brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.
00:51:24
Speaker
I have to say I think one of my crowning moments was I'm pretty sure he liked one of my tweets once and this was ages ago. Oh wow. Obviously I'm not doing the para social thing to be like anyway that's how we became best friends. Yeah he's coming round on Friday night. Yeah it was one like okay it was one like but you know that way when you see a celebrity liking your tweet you're like oh my god that's so cool. I'm relevant.
00:51:49
Speaker
I know the podcast has some credibility now. Oh, absolutely. Very big listeners. As listened to by Mark Hamill. Oh, totally. Like for legal reasons, that is a joke. Yes, totally. Yeah, absolutely. Mark Hamill's lawyers come after you. And tend to.
00:52:07
Speaker
Yeah, I'm totally with you there, see, for the prequels. I remember watching them when I was younger and thinking, oh, they're not the worst, except for Attack of the Clones. Attack of the Clones, I feel as if, is the only one that I watched when I was younger and barred the fights and things. I really just did not like it because it was just, and again, this is tried and over all ground, but you know, the plot was a mess.
Critique of Star Wars Sequel Trilogy
00:52:31
Speaker
Who the hell was Master Sifo Diaz, you know?
00:52:33
Speaker
There was so many rewrites and things that they could have done, but I don't think they really thought it through. And I said this in our Star Wars month, but I feel as if, and this is going to tick off a lot of Trekkies, but I feel as if someone slipped a Star Trek script into the Phantom Menace one, and then Lucas was like, you know what, we're going to roll with the polity.
00:52:55
Speaker
Yeah, we're going to roll with the politics, we're going to roll with the trade federation. And I have to say, after watching Star Trek in my later years, I have to say I didn't mind the angle that he was going for, you know, the kind of political intrigue and things.
00:53:10
Speaker
It just wasn't executed well, you know? You have this story about a very cunning Sith Lord that's, oh, he's rising up the ranks and everything, but then you watch the rest of it. How can you take a film like that seriously when you've got to charge our banks giving them authority? Too true. Being like, oh, I'm giving you Bombard authority. Well, then again, we've got the House of Commons, but for legal reasons, that is also a joke.
00:53:39
Speaker
as a massive joke, but I've got one more controversial question for you though. Go on then. I'm assuming you're not a fan of the prequels as such, as you said, and I'm assuming that you liked the original trilogy, but... I do. What are your thoughts on the sequel trilogy? What sequel trilogy? That is a great answer, very diplomatic, yeah. I like BB-8. Oh yes, same. BB-8's a good character, and yeah, I like BB-8.
00:54:09
Speaker
Although I will say some of the cinematography was absolutely stunning. I think that whoever did some of the backdrops and the pan shots and stuff were absolutely good. There were a few times where I was like, oh, I'd really like that. It's like a still photograph on the wall or something. But yeah, there you go. That's my opinion. No, I must do that.
00:54:31
Speaker
Yeah, BB-8's cute. I do like him. And after that, the first time I saw him, I thought, I don't know how he quite works, but you know what? I love with it because he's cute. I like The Force Awakens well enough. And I'm totally with you there when you said about the cinematography and things, because it is a beautiful-looking trilogy of films. Although I'm not a big fan of The Last Jedi, Shock Order, I know, you know, I'm with the only few,
00:54:57
Speaker
even have to admit that but there's some gorgeous shots in that film whether it's silly or not it's honestly got some beautiful locations and things oh yeah but as a story no no i think what irritated me about it was that after i watched the first one i was like whoa it's just
00:55:15
Speaker
It's the same as the original, just different people, but I can't really, you know, they just switched like the protagonist roles around a little bit. And by the time they got to the last one, I was like, oh my God, there are just things that happened to be working for convenience. Like, you know, when she got the dagger and it just happened to line up with the ship that had been crashed, but when they created the dagger, that wasn't gonna line up with a ship. Do you know the scene that I mean?
00:55:36
Speaker
And you're just like, well, hang on a minute. Like I said, when they created that dagger, that shit was not like that in that position. I was like, well, this is just convenient for the storyline, isn't it? And I couldn't, I don't know. I felt like by the end, there were just so many things that they were, it was working for convenience. And I don't know. I just, I wasn't very sorry. Daisy Ridley and John Berger and Adam Driver and everyone else, but I'm so sorry. It wasn't my cup of tea. Let's put it like that. Yeah.
00:56:04
Speaker
However, I did like quite a lot of the spin-off series that they did on Disney. I didn't get through Andor. That one lost me, but I loved Mandalorian. I thought that was brilliant. Absolutely. Actually, I'm wearing Grogu socks right now, but yeah, no, I do. I did like a lot of the spin-offs and I loved Rogue One. I thought Rogue One was a brilliant film, I have to say. A lot of people didn't seem to like Rogue One, but no, I really liked that. Yeah, but the sequel trilogy, nah, no. Please nobody hate me and lynch me and come after me for that comment. Don't judge me.
00:56:33
Speaker
I mean, the Star Wars fans, you know, they'll be a rational bunch, don't you, Laurie? Yeah. Yes, of course. There isn't a group of Star Wars fans that loves to hate Star Wars, is there? And which always makes me laugh is just every time that Star Wars does something, it's just like this group of fans that seem to hate on it. And which just, again, makes me giggle. But no, I do like Star Wars. I think it's got a special place for a lot of people across different generations.
00:56:59
Speaker
I mean, it is a timeless story, I have to say. I mean, so much so that the rehash there for the sequel trilogy.
Reactions to Star Wars Spin-offs
00:57:07
Speaker
Again, for legal reasons, yeah, no, I'm totally lucky in terms of the spin-offs and things, because although, again, I don't really like the sequel trilogy, but neither would I bash anyone for liking it, you know? That's your favourite trilogy, whether it's the prequel or the sequel and things, you know? Nobody deserves to be hated on just because they like a set of albums,
00:57:29
Speaker
Yeah, and I can see some people, because I'm sure that there are some people as well who actually started off with seven, eight and nine as I number, like seven, eight and nine who are maybe younger and actually think that they're brilliant. But then I think because you're not comparing them to four, five, six, or even one, two, three, it's that perspective, isn't it, of how you go into watching them almost.
00:57:48
Speaker
Yeah, because that is a scary thought, that the sequel trilogy is somebody's first Star Wars trilogy, like especially for young kids and things. Because that was actually something that I noticed for, again, this is another semi-controversial thing, you know Doctor Who? Where there's a lot of people who weren't fans of certain aspects of the run, although
00:58:11
Speaker
But it was interesting to see that when there was a comic on one time and you saw there was kids and families that were dressed up as the characters from that particular run, then the same thing goes for the sequel trilogy as well. The fact that a lot of kids and a lot of families will be watching this for the first time and getting into Star Wars because of that. But again, it makes me feel old because the prequels were the ones that I got into Star Wars with.
00:58:39
Speaker
and of course thanks to my parents or rather my dad that I watched the original trilogy which again was absolutely fantastic but yeah as it's quite scary to think that people were like oh yeah The Force Awakens was my first album and that is I would say nine years old? Did it come out in 2015? That sounds about right. I'm trying to work it out now but yeah that sounds about right. It was a while ago yeah. Welcome to the few old variety
00:59:08
Speaker
Absolutely. But they're going to come out with new ones soon, aren't they? They're going further back in time. I'm quite interested to see what they do with that and how that world builds a little bit more. But, yeah, I feel like we could sit here and chat Star Wars all night. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. So, you know, honestly, if the worst came to the worst, they could always dig into the Legion stuff and create the, what was it, the wheelie bin that killed a lot of planets and they would have known that Chewbacca. So much potential.
00:59:35
Speaker
The user and Vong, I mean, who are they in comparison to? Yeah, exactly. Force course and look with two E's and things. Yeah, that was a wild series. Yes. That was an absolute insane. Yeah. So what we're saying is, don't watch the sequels, read the lore. Yes, exactly, exactly. Yeah, my husband's read pretty much everything that's gone. You know, all of the books that go into the High Republic and what have you. I haven't read as many of them as he has, but yeah, it definitely well builds in a different way, I would say.
01:00:05
Speaker
Yeah, I have to say, I bought the book the very first one ages ago and I said, I'm going to read this. It's still sitting in my cupboard. Oh, no.
01:00:13
Speaker
out of any malice or anything. I wasn't one of those fans that was like, I'm not going to read this because it's the High Republic. No, no, no. I'm just lazy. I put it in and I was like, I'm going to read you later. And it's like, nah. It just didn't happen. Well, I mean, tomorrow, as of this episode, but tomorrow I'm on the holiday. So you know what? Maybe I'll get a chance to read it. Maybe I won't. I don't know.
01:00:36
Speaker
Maybe we'll see. We'll definitely see. To be confirmed. Exactly. And they're covered far, far away. Yes. And all seriousness, as you said, we can definitely talk about Star Wars for ages and I would absolutely love to have you on for a Star Wars episode.
01:00:53
Speaker
Let's do that. I will come very prepared. Absolutely. But seeing that note, Verity, thank you so, so much for coming on to the show and talking about your show and really, yeah, thank you for creating such an amazing show as well.
Conclusion and Future Teasers
01:01:08
Speaker
Thank you so much for having this fantastic opportunity this evening. Well, this evening, whenever the podcast episode comes out, but it has been so much fun to talk to you all things podcasting and our controversial podcasting views, which we apparently share, and also Star Wars. I love it when I get to shake it up and talk about different things on a podcast. Oh, no, absolutely. You know, I do invite podcasters and streamers and things on. I always feel bad when I'm like, is there anything else you want to talk about? It doesn't have to just be podcasting.
01:01:35
Speaker
It could be anything. We'll do Harry Potter next time as well. Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Harry Potter month is next month, so yeah. Brilliant.
01:01:45
Speaker
All good, all good. But before we wrap up, where can these lovely listeners at home find your content? Absolutely. Just search Lazy Girl's Guide to Podcasting wherever you get your podcasts. Type it into Google. The whole of the first page is my content, I feel. Poor Google. But yes, just type in Lazy Girl's Guide to Podcasting wherever you get your podcasts. And I'm also at Verity Song on Twitter. That's S-A-N-G-A-N because my surname is not written anyway. How it has sounded, but yeah.
01:02:12
Speaker
variety song on all lazy girls guide to podcasting and come join the newsletter join the community love to see you there and yeah i can only reiterate that go check out that podcast absolutely fantastic but if you want to check out a semi nearby
01:02:27
Speaker
That's good podcast. You can indeed check out our podcast and all of our content on our website, Chatsanami.com, as well as all good podcast apps. I also want to thank our amazing Pandolorean patrons Robotic Battle Toaster and Sonya. Thank you so much once again for supporting the show and if you want
01:02:46
Speaker
post of content, early access, even commentary tracks. We've got a lot on our Patreon, so please go check it out. But if you want to check that out, you can check that out at patreon.com forward slash chat tsunami. But until next time, thank you all so, so much for listening. Stay safe, stay awesome and most importantly, stay hydrated.
01:03:06
Speaker
Welcome to Chatsunami, a variety podcast that discusses topics from gaming and films to anime and journal interests. Previously on Chatsunami, we've analysed what makes a good horror game, conducted a retrospective on Pierce Brosnan's runs James Bond, and listened to us take deep dives into both the Sonic and Halo franchises.
01:03:24
Speaker
Also, if you're an anime fan, then don't forget to check us out on our sub-series, Chatsunani, where we dive into the world of anime. So far, we've reviewed things like Death Note, Princess Mononoke, and the hit Beyblade series. If that sounds like your cup of tea, then you can check us out on Spotify, iTunes, and all good podcast apps. As always, stay safe, stay awesome, and most importantly, stay hydrated.